Paladin Epic vs other weapons

[Kovah]

I saw a topic just like this about the SK epic, and i wanted to open up the same line of thought for the paladin epic.

The below is a link to what I believe to be all the weapons a paladin can use, sorted by DPS

https://wiki.project1999.com/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Paladin/Primary/AllItems

By this list, Fiery Defender is 36th.

Now obviously the fiery defender has some intangibles, like the ability to use bash, the proc effect and the stats, but in your opinion, where does/should the fiery defender rank in terms of best paladin weapons?

Thanks for your input!

[kaev]

I'm happy with FD. The AC & stats & decent agro proc are all solid when I tank. When I tank it's all about controlling agro, so nobody cares about my damage output. If I'm not tanking, it's either a social group, so nobody cares about my damage output, or a raid, so nobody cares about my damage output.

An epic paladin really shouldn't care about personal damage output. (Except for making jokes, especially at the expense of any non-cleric who parses below you on somebody's dps calculator after a fight.) DPS is not only the least of a paladin's attributes, it is almost always the least important.

When I want to do damage, I don't play my paladin. When i muck around solo on my paladin for a change of pace, Kilva's Skin of Flame more than doubles my damage output vs unslowed mobs. Marginal differences in weapon damage just aren't important.

[Snaggles]

If you have the means (guilded or willing/able to pay for MQ and help) to get the FD it certainly seems worth the effort. The ratio isn't the best but stats, bash, proc w/ stun aggro, fashion. It's pretty great.

As a filthy casual I've pretty much accepted my plight as a Narandi's Lance/Reaver 2h pally. It's not a bad plight but I'd ditch either for a FD as a tanking weapon.

I'm not sure how common Frostreaver's are on P99 but IMHO it would certainly be a nice easy alternative if your guild kills Dain and you happen to be a Dwarf or Human. If you are a Tunare pally the Nature's Defender is another fairly close contender.

[kjs86z]

I'm happy with FD. The AC & stats & decent agro proc are all solid when I tank. When I tank it's all about controlling agro, so nobody cares about my damage output. If I'm not tanking, it's either a social group, so nobody cares about my damage output, or a raid, so nobody cares about my damage output.

An epic paladin really shouldn't care about personal damage output. (Except for making jokes, especially at the expense of any non-cleric who parses below you on somebody's dps calculator after a fight.) DPS is not only the least of a paladin's attributes, it is almost always the least important.

When I want to do damage, I don't play my paladin. When i muck around solo on my paladin for a change of pace, Kilva's Skin of Flame more than doubles my damage output vs unslowed mobs. Marginal differences in weapon damage just aren't important.

Sudz and his Vulak axe would disagree.

[Shodo]

Outside of ToV loot it's one of the best all-around 2handers for the combination of fashion, stats, bash, ratio, and piety. However, if you're trying to maximize dps then a lot of one-handers beat it. Sword of blessings (19/25) from Velketor parses about on-par with epic. Darkmetal falchion from hate and massive dragonclaw shard from zlandicar (or purchaseable) both beat it. All three of those are obtainable without dedicated raiding. If you include ToV loot, epic isn't even in the running dps-wise: every knight-specific weapon there beats it.

[nothsa]

The proc is a stun and has a reduction to MR to hit, it is great verse monsters that cast . like the frogloks in seb, but for raw dps many of the tov 1 handers do better at this stage.

[MilanderTruewield]

I have both FD and ND. ND has a little more damage, but you can't bash with it. It also has higher AC. Proc is about the same, I think ND proc is 5 damage less. It's a toss-up on which one you want to use, but I definitely love the bash option on the epic.

[Xaeophi]

Just do the paladin quest in plane of growth (Tunare Deity Only).
Its better in every way vs the paladin epic AND only takes about maybe... an hour or two to do :D

[Crede]

Just do the paladin quest in plane of growth (Tunare Deity Only).
Its better in every way vs the paladin epic AND only takes about maybe... an hour or two to do :D

How so? Only edge it has statistically on the FD is AC. You can't bash with it, doesn't look as cool as the epic, worse overall stats, and the worst part is that you have to be a High Elf/Half Elf.

In response to OP, it's definitely not as effective as the SK epic. I'd say skip it if you plan to raid hardcore ToV, but if you are semi-casual/casual and have means of obtaining it then it's worth it IMO. I obtain epics on any class that I can, they are the only quests I've ever enjoyed doing in this game.

[Xaeophi]

38/46(Nature's Defender)vs 35/40 (Fiery Defender)\
With 2h Weapons bonus damage increases higher the delay (Or for some reason is this not a thing?)

45 AC on ND (HOLY thats a lot ) VS Fiery defender 15 AC ( nice but its definitely not 45 nice )

The AC Alone is way worth the 45 HP and 5 mana difference.
The stats.. Sure epic is better.
the proc? The epic does 5 more spell damage and stuns for .5 more seconds.

So what do you get when using the Natures Defender? One.. More damage per melee hit and Two.. MORE procs. Since procs are based upon Dex modifier + weapon delay, higher delay = higher chance of procs!
Have two paladins with the exact same gear besides the natures defender and Epic
100% Natures Defender WILL win.
The epic does look cool. Have fun killing naggy/nox and all that other silly stuff for a sword thats on fire.
The natures defender is kind of ugly no lie.

[Pint]

Nothing beats the bash on the epic, definitely best option until you can get a high end velious raid wep

[Sonderbeast]

can parse 120 dps lol worth looking into ^-^

[MilanderTruewield]

ND is hands-down the best looking sword in the game.

http://wiki.project1999.com/File:Natures_Defender.jpg

[Arkanjil]

ND is hands-down the best looking sword in the game.

http://wiki.project1999.com/File:Natures_Defender.jpg

Can’t argue with that :)

[Snaggles]

The nice thing about a knight is your epic is completely optional. It’s not going to be a class maker or breaker. I enjoyed the SK epic on live raids but can’t see the Pally one being worth using in those situations. In a group anything decent and hp/ac gear is all you “need”.

The Nature’s Defender is awesome and only a few ticks down, IMHO. Great weapon if you happen to have it as an option. Still since you are limited to two races who can use it that doesn’t make it a real comparison to the epic. Might as well include other race-locked items if that’s the case. Frostreaver (Human/Dwarf), Shield of Stalwart Seats (ERU), Adryn Sword of the Ocean (Human/ERU), Dwarven cultural plate which is pretty damn OP, etc.

[kaev]

So what do you get when using the Natures Defender? One.. More damage per melee hit and Two.. MORE procs.

Taking your second claim first. No, you do not get more procs. Proc chance per minute is based on dex. Proc chance per swing is determined by your net swing delay (including haste) vs your proc chance per minute. ND will get more procs/swing than any quicker weapon, but same procs/minute as every other weapon.

As for more damage per melee hit, ... if bigger numbers make you feel good i guess that's ok. FD will outdamage ND until/unless late velious combat revamp goes in, at which point they'll be near equal, but the day paladin damage output is actually important to gameplay has never dawned on p99.

[White_knight]

In velious paladin epic is basically a stat stick that looks cool.

Dmg wise a reaver does more damage.

[Jimjam]

In velious paladin epic is basically a stat stick that looks cool.

Dmg wise a reaver does more damage.

60% of the time the reaver works best every time!

[Xaeophi]

Taking your second claim first. No, you do not get more procs. Proc chance per minute is based on dex. Proc chance per swing is determined by your net swing delay (including haste) vs your proc chance per minute. ND will get more procs/swing than any quicker weapon, but same procs/minute as every other weapon.

As for more damage per melee hit, ... if bigger numbers make you feel good i guess that's ok. FD will outdamage ND until/unless late velious combat revamp goes in, at which point they'll be near equal, but the day paladin damage output is actually important to gameplay has never dawned on p99.

Im curious about the claims here.
Im only saying the nature's defender would do more damage is not mainly due to the 2 weapon dmg increase. Im looking at the delay. For 2h Weapons, the higher the delay the more bonus damage you get. (the amount is a lot higher the 1h damage bonus) - >

Now about the procs. I think I understand your claim which is your basing the proc rates on a procs per minute scale correct?
Like lets say I wield a weapon hasted for 1 minute and then wield the same weapon not hasted for 1 minute after.
You're claim is the result = same amount of procs occur in a one minute duration?
I know it says it on like the wiki and stuff so im not going to discredit your idea..
But why is it...
For OT hammers... someone could be trying to proc the hammer on someone for what ive seen up to 2 minutes without a proc
And if whenever i need to OT proc i just slow myself and get it off the first swing? ( 90% of the time )

[Legidias]

Slowed = higher proc chance per swing, but it evens out over time (less swings = less chances / minute).

You have a higher chance in every single hit, but given 2 minutes, the same amount of procs will go off.

[Jimjam]

When slowed the OT hammer swings about once per 20 seconds. As you make 2 procs per min, aka 0.66 procs per 20 seconds, most times you will get that proc on the first swing.

When hasted you swing the OT hammer every 2.5 seconds, meaning only a 1/12 chance proc to swing. Note each individual swing is unlikely to proc, but you are hasted so you make more swings. The high sample rate means you are more likely to end up close to the expected time of 30 seconds of fighting before procing than the 1 hit wonder when you are slowed (if you don't proc on the first two swings when slowed, you're already behind on the expected procs per min).

[Snaggles]

Im curious about the claims here.
Im only saying the nature's defender would do more damage is not mainly due to the 2 weapon dmg increase. Im looking at the delay. For 2h Weapons, the higher the delay the more bonus damage you get. (the amount is a lot higher the 1h damage bonus) - >


The scaling damage bonus is used to compensate for slower weapons. If the ratios are close but one is 10% (ish) slower if they had the same damage bonus the faster weapon would do consistently more damage. In the law of averages sometimes the ND will our damage the FD and visa versa. Damage per hour though they should be pretty close.

Average hit for the ND will be higher than the FD making it a better joust weapon. That said, an Earthshaker or Narandi is the best droppable Jouster for a Pally unless you have like 100k for a Tantor’s Tusk.


Now about the procs. I think I understand your claim which is your basing the proc rates on a procs per minute scale correct?
Like lets say I wield a weapon hasted for 1 minute and then wield the same weapon not hasted for 1 minute after.
You're claim is the result = same amount of procs occur in a one minute duration?
I know it says it on like the wiki and stuff so im not going to discredit your idea..
But why is it...
For OT hammers... someone could be trying to proc the hammer on someone for what ive seen up to 2 minutes without a proc
And if whenever i need to OT proc i just slow myself and get it off the first swing? ( 90% of the time )

Law of averages. 1-2ppm for main hand weapons depending on dex. You could go on a streak of 5 in a minute or not see one for 2 mins. Flip a coin 10 times and count up each result, you have a 50/50 chance of either but it’s likely heads or tails will win out. Flip the coin 1000 times and the tally for will be closer.

As your swing over minute goes down your proc chance per swing increases. The Earthshaker procs on average more per “swing” due to the 70 delay. It doesn’t proc more per min unless the RNG gods smile upon you.

[Xaeophi]

I'll test that out later :) see how many procs i get slowed and how many hasted in 1 minute :D

[Rewzer]

Craslith starts procing @ 20 and its amazing in unrest.

[Troxx]

FD and ND are pretty damn close. Really the only slam dunk distinguishing factor is epic bash capability.

Other than that FD has 10 more stam, 20 more total (and balanced) saves, and 45 more hp. ND has 30 more AC and 10 more dex. It’s easier by far to get and IMO much better looking. Ratio wise it’s a wash. FD will always be better for raw dps. 35/40 > 38/46, but the slower delay on ND will absolutely make it easier to get spell casts off with less loss in dps. Their procs are almost identical.

If ND had bash capabilities I’d use it hands down for the ac and fashionquest alone. 45 ac on a weapon is pretty damn stout.