Camp Rules

[Hotel]

I'm really salty that I got suspended for holding down idol camp a few days ago because apparently I ksed 6 mobs. But, I'm open to the fact that I'm probably just dumb and don't understand the rules so help me out.

If someone runs past orcs while I'm camping (actively clearing) them, gets aggro on 1 mob and turns around to fight it, and then I pet attack the mob that's on him and he is attacking, is that a ks?

Again, if this is obviously against the rules than whatever I'm just dumb, but man, it feels super shitty.

This is a genuine question and not salty rage post I don't mean to be passive aggressive if it comes off that way.

P.S. Fun message I got from the guy who presumably petitioned me, he had no communication with me before this. I would have given orcs if he had even just asked. Feelsbadman https://gyazo.com/b785152c91f63465d858fb076ef269bb

[tscheff08]

Hmm that sucks

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

Seems like if you own the camp, it would be hard for anyone passing through to argue you, the camp owner, kill stole a mob. If he aggro'd it accidentally passing through I feel like common courtesy would be for him to let you pull it off him in an appropriate time frame/quickly if it was obvious you were after it.

If you were AFK and it was killing him I wouldn't blame him for killing it and moving on but it sounds like that's not how it went down.

[bigjeff100]

In my eyes the concern is with the PH.. Do you need to kill all mobs at that camp for the Idol? Or is it a specific spawn? I always thought he was the spawn at the top of rock formation/wall?

What's more annoying regardless of who is right or wrong, is homey appears to have gone from 0-100 without any form of real communication. The rules ask for the individuals to try and work it out.. He should also be temporary banned for a lack of any of that.

[azeth]

the better question is why are volunteer GMs even responding to petitions rn? Just let the server play out...

Nothing bad will happen, I promise.

Focus on reimbursements and shit.

[Legidias]

inb4 backfire post where GM shows OP was in fact KSing

Also, seems like RnF material

[Hotel]

inb4 backfire post where GM shows OP was in fact KSing

Also, seems like RnF material

I definitely pet attacked orcs that like a level 30 warrior had aggrod while he ran by and tried to kill. I just thought that was legal for me to do when I was holding down said camp.

I'm all for being proven I'm just a gigantic douche.

[Tuurin]

the better question is why are volunteer GMs even responding to petitions rn? Just let the server play out...

Nothing bad will happen, I promise.

Focus on reimbursements and shit.

Seriously. We're suspending people for ks'ing level 20 generic orcs? Tell me there's more to this story...

[Hotel]

Seriously. We're suspending people for ks'ing level 20 generic orcs? Tell me there's more to this story...

My intent with this post is not to flame staff. I really respect the effort they put into maintaining this server.

It makes sense they would hold a level 60 in a competitive guild more accountable than your average player I guess, but I'm still very new to the server so I'm unaware of some of the basic etiquette stuff.

[Darkatar]

I definitely pet attacked orcs that like a level 30 warrior had aggrod while he ran by and tried to kill. I just thought that was legal for me to do when I was holding down said camp.


Technically he had aggro on the mobs, so they were his.

Then again, the technical lawyerquest move would be to unsummon your pet, stay seated in the pull path, fraps yourself dying to orcs, then report him for training you.

[elwing]

Outdoor zone?

[Legidias]

I mean, we need more specifics. You said you were actively clearing, and I assume you're a lvl 60 from previous post, so how was there mobs up to freely aggro him just running by? Even a lvl 60 wiz could just melee down 6 lvl 20's at the same time.

You said you killed the one mob he aggro'd, yet also say you were accused of KSing 6 mobs??


There's a lot of inconsistencies.

[Bardp1999]

I'm really salty that I got suspended

This is a genuine question and not salty rage post

I think it really depends on how you handled the situation. If you talked to the player who you had the dispute with it would have likely worked itself out. However, if you went full retarded and started cussing and arguing with the victim, you likely ate a suspension for being a douche bag more than the actual KS.

Play nice and typically you will live (not get suspended) even if you make a mistake.

Prime example - me! - I have never been suspended in game because I take my rage out anonymously on the forums and act like a human being while playing the game.

[loramin]

I'm open to the fact that I'm probably just dumb and don't understand the rules so help me out.

Perhaps my biggest pet peeve here is that there are a lot (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rules) of different definitions of the rules, and then on top of them there's also "secret" rules that you have to read the forum to learn. I fully understand that the GMs need a degree of discretion when making rulings, and that's why they don't list out every last ruling for every camp in the game, but even so it seems to me personally like we've swung too far towards obfuscating the rules for players.

Here's the real/"secret" rules of camps (as I understand them ... but I'm not staff). Outdoors you can camp exactly one spawn point. Well, you can camp as many spawn points as you can camp, until someone else comes along. At that point (if you can't work out any other arrangement) you get to pick one spawn point to keep as your's. The new person then gets to pick one of the remaining spawn points as theirs, and then every other spawn involved becomes "FTE" (First to Engage). In other words, whoever aggroed it first gets it.

Indoors the rules are almost the same, but sometimes you can camp multiple spawn points if they're "one camp". This is only the case when they are A) close to each other , B) within line of sight of each other, and C) the GM who gets petitioned decides it counts as a camp (again, the staff deliberately does not decide in advance except on very popular camps, so that they aren't limited by previous staff rulings).

So in your scenario, it sounds like you had one spawn point camped, and no one else was trying to take it. But then the remaining spawn points weren't your camp. This made them either the other guy's spawn (although it doesn't sound like any such thing was established) or FTE. Since all other mobs there were FTE and he engaged them first, you technically stole his kill.

But the part of this whole thing that bugs me is your description of the GM response. As others have mentioned, the staff doesn't usually just blindly suspend people for a simple misunderstanding over mobs. I'm guessing there's more to this story, like say how you conducted yourself when the staff member appeared.

[Hotel]

I mean, we need more specifics. You said you were actively clearing, and I assume you're a lvl 60 from previous post, so how was there mobs up to freely aggro him just running by? Even a lvl 60 wiz could just melee down 6 lvl 20's at the same time.

You said you killed the one mob he aggro'd, yet also say you were accused of KSing 6 mobs??


There's a lot of inconsistencies.

I am sitting at idol spawn and don't have los of the far right spawn and rely on social aggro to kill, so usually the far right spawns are up for a few seconds. Again - if this is something obviously against the rules than I'll accept my punishment - this was a post inquisitive in nature.

The 6 number comes from the fact he was running around the zone for a while and when he would come by my camp he would attempt to kill the straggler mob that aggrod him, I was there for around 6 hours, and this particular dude sent me that tell and logged around 4hrish hours i got there, to give you a time frame.

I'll reiterate this point again as well. He made no prior attempts at communication other than the tell he sent right before he logged I posted above.

I've also had no contact with staff before or after suspension. But my forum post on the petition page is as respectful as possible. From what you explained above I guess it makes sense that it was an outdoor zone he technically got fte on those spawns and I shouldn't have assumed they were mine. I was honestly unaware of the distinction between outdoor and indoor zones and I appreciate your post for my future camping sessions.

[elwing]

Outdoor zone are different, you can claim exactly one spawn point if someone contest, everything else is fte as far as I am aware...

[Legidias]

What was your response to GM's? Especially for KS or camp issues, GM's will message you and ask about the situation first. They don't blindly suspend for no reason.

90% of cases where said person has been banned was because they either mouthed off to GM or just ignored the warning and continued on.

HHP is considered an outdoor zone, so as per above, you technically can only claim 1 spawn when another person wants to share. Other person can also claim one and anything else is FTE.

Seeing as how supposedly the other guy never contacted you about sharing, he might've instantly petitioned instead, in which case the GM would just say the exact same thing I did, where you need to share.

It seems you killed his single spawn mob 6 times in a row as he aggrod it past? That would probably be where it came from, but again, GM's dont just blindly hand out suspensions.

[Hotel]

What was your response to GM's? Especially for KS or camp issues, GM's will message you and ask about the situation first. They don't blindly suspend for no reason.

90% of cases where said person has been banned was because they either mouthed off to GM or just ignored the warning and continued on.

HHP is considered an outdoor zone, so as per above, you technically can only claim 1 spawn when another person wants to share. Other person can also claim one and anything else is FTE.

Seeing as how supposedly the other guy never contacted you about sharing, he might've instantly petitioned instead, in which case the GM would just say the exact same thing I did, where you need to share.

It seems you killed his single spawn mob 6 times in a row as he aggrod it past? That would probably be where it came from, but again, GM's dont just blindly hand out suspensions.

Right, he would just run by the orc camp, get aggro on an orc, two orcs I think one time, and than turn around to kill at kith zl. I would pet attack his mobs, so now I know this is a no no.

The guy who petitioned me ksing never asked me for mobs or any other tell and the GMs did not communicate with me beforehand. At no point this week since or before my suspension have I been approached by GMs.

[Qtip]

Were you corpsing idols as they dropped?

[Hotel]

Were you corpsing idols as they dropped?

Nah, handing off to guildies or logging onto mules

[bigjeff100]

No matter who was right or wrong here.. Homey was a turd for going straight to GM's and should be punished for any lack of attempting to resolve this between you 2. I also think he's a turd because any normal joe can zone in there, see a high level sitting at the camp and already know what he's doing, so just move on. Instead he appears to be looking for drama...

[Hotel]

No matter who was right or wrong here.. Homey was a turd for going straight to GM's and should be punished for any lack of attempting to resolve this between you 2. I also think he's a turd because any normal joe can zone in there, see a high level sitting at the camp and already know what he's doing, so just move on. Instead he appears to be looking for drama...

I painted a one sided picture of the scene no doubt but I'm trying to be as honest as I can because I respect this server and its rules. It feels bad having him be the winner and me the loser for a matter I would be more than willing to resolve person to person.

I got initiated to full member of Aftermath literally hours before my suspension happened. So to be poofed from the server, without any communication, right before my first raid cycle as a full member was really sad.

Anyway, I just hope I can get my character back.

[bigjeff100]

Were u banned or suspended?

[Hotel]

Were u banned or suspended?

Suspended but I have no clue on the time frame (haven't heard anything from gms regrading the matter) and I'm a petulant child when it comes to patience heh

[Wonkie]

the real reason we can't have nice things is people farming consumables for raiders to zone pull with

[bigjeff100]

Suspended but I have no clue on the time frame (haven't heard anything from gms regrading the matter) and I'm a petulant child when it comes to patience heh

I always thought suspensions were 30 days.. Either way that sucks man. From the details i can see.. I actually side with you.. Whether you did the right thing or not rule wise, i am a supporter of people can and need to use more common sense... If i see something camped, i just move on without even asking. I don't want to know if i can have 1 spawn out of your 6 mobs, or how long your gonna be. I just legitimately move on and find something else to do. And that's what homey shoulda done.. Seen it was camped, caught agro, shoulda kept moving. Instead he threw a fit, and this is where you are now.

[Ballaorf]

Maybe it's just the lower levels, but I've found a relative lack of respect for camps so far. In CB, we were camping Wall and someone kept grabbing mobs from our camp. I asked them to stop, they ran off, then just pulled from the other side of our camp - which actually ended up causing trains more than once because the mobs ran through multiple camps.

Camping orc highway in Oasis, a higher-level twink was grabbing orcs when we had no problem clearing it. Same with crocs last night.

Anyway, I have an actual question: The "one spawn" rule, is that a spawn camp or a specific mob? For example, if you're camping a named for a drop, is someone free to kill everything else except that named? Or is the "spawn" considered that entire room/camp?

[bigjeff100]

Well as stated in the guide. Staff will not define what constitutes a camp. And everything is on a per case basis.

That being said- How i understand it, If you are camping that idol, then all spawns applying to that idol are yours. Anywhere a PH will or can spawn is part of your camp. If you are killing all the orcs, but only 1 of them is a PH, i think it's your responsibility to free up those spawns as long as the other player can hold it. If not, it's yours.

[azeth]

YMCA CAMP RULES!!!

[Hangerbaby]

This is not classic at all

Also why are temp GMs suspending? Shouldn't there be a warning system in place? Also why is this server full of raging neckbeards rushing to /petition people to get the camps cleared up?

Honestly this stinks of intentional

[bigjeff100]

This is not classic at all

Also why are temp GMs suspending? Shouldn't there be a warning system in place? Also why is this server full of raging neckbeards rushing to /petition people to get the camps cleared up?

Honestly this stinks of intentional

"We greatly encourage players to find their own resolution to spawn disputes, as the solution provided by the staff will at best be a win-lose situation, and possbily a lose-lose situation".

I agree, a warning shoulda been given in this case as long as both were acting like adults. To me the guy who zoned in and was agro'd is a dick. Screamed for an adult, the adult came, handed out a punishment. One person won, one person lost. Win lose. these results have been warned.

[Hangerbaby]

I agree, a warning shoulda been given in this case as long as both were acting like adults. To me the guy who zoned in and was agro'd is a dick. Screamed for an adult, the adult came, handed out a punishment. One person won, one person lost. Win lose. these results have been warned.

If their best solution is to do nothing but reduce server pop because of an orc, then perhaps they should be doing nothing at all in these cases

[loramin]

This is not classic at all

Classic EverQuest had a team of paid professional GMs, a backing team of developers, and an all-volunteer team of guides (who still got "paid", at least a little, with free EQ). P99 just has a 100% all volunteer staff, and they can't even be "paid" with free EQ because everyone gets that already.

Simple logic tells you that a bunch of people doing support as a job are going to be able to enforce rules that a much smaller group of non-professionals can't, and so as much as this place tries to be as classic as possible, until we all donate enough to pay real monthly salaries for everyone on staff, it's just not realistic to expect live-level rules and support.

Shouldn't there be a warning system in place?
Normally there is, as several people here have expressed. But as we've also expressed, this is far from the first "the staff done me wrong!" post we've seen, and in 95+% of these posts the OP leaves out some relevant details ... which is why we're waiting for all of the facts to come out before we jump to conclusions about staff misconduct or whatnot.

If their best solution is to do nothing but reduce server pop because of an orc, then perhaps they should be doing nothing at all in these cases

That's easy to say now, but when someone higher level steals a rare mob that you've spent hours patiently killing the placeholders for, I suspect you'll change your tune.

[Hangerbaby]

Words

It was sarcasm but thanks for playing

[loramin]

It was sarcasm but thanks for playing

For reference:

This is not classic at all

Also why are temp GMs suspending? Shouldn't there be a warning system in place? Also why is this server full of raging neckbeards rushing to /petition people to get the camps cleared up?

Honestly this stinks of intentional

Now I'm not one of those people who gets all uppity because there wasn't a "/s" in someone's post, but if you want to be sarcastic you have to ... you know ... be sarcastic.

[bigjeff100]

It was sarcasm but thanks for playing

Sarcasm expressed through a keyboard.. Yes, that always translates so well (Sarcasm intended)

[bigjeff100]

Ps- Happy Thursday Loramin :)

[loramin]

Ps- Happy Thursday Loramin :)

Happy Thursday Jeff :D And for the record you're a terrible, horrible person who is a disgrace to your country and should be shipped off to Siberia.

Am I doing this sarcasm thing right? Hangerbaby has me all confused now ;)

[Hangerbaby]

Sarcasm expressed through a keyboard.. Yes, that always translates so well (Sarcasm intended)

It's not my fault king forumquester over here lacks the social intelligence to read my first line and realize I'm just being a smartass

[loramin]

king forumquester over here

After paying me a compliment like that I feel kinda bad about the tone of my previous posts :( Can we kiss and make up now?

[bigjeff100]

Happy Thursday Jeff :D And for the record you're a terrible, horrible person who is a disgrace to your country and should be shipped off to Siberia.

Am I doing this sarcasm thing right? Hangerbaby has me all confused now ;)

I've packed a bag and i've booked the first plane flight to Russia! Am i reading sarcasm correctly?

[loramin]

I've packed a bag and i've booked the first plane flight to Russia! Am i reading sarcasm correctly?

:D

[Hotel]

Normally there is, as several people here have expressed. But as we've also expressed, this is far from the first "the staff done me wrong!" post we've seen, and in 95+% of these posts the OP leaves out some relevant details ... which is why we're waiting for all of the facts to come out before we jump to conclusions about staff misconduct or whatnot.


The reason I made this post was because I was confused on the specific rules and wasn't getting response from gms in days.

If a gm swoops in and proves that I'm just being a gigantic troll right now and I'm actually a douche I'd be fine with that. It's probably a bad look I have made this thread in the first place but I was really stuck in the water without a paddle in regards to my suspension.

[loramin]

If a gm swoops in and proves that I'm just being a gigantic troll right now and I'm actually a douche I'd be fine with that.

First off, I should say that I commend you for trying to handle all this as respectfully as possible. That was certainly not the case with many posts of this sort in the past.

And look, I did leave open a 5% chance, because of course the staff are human beings and human beings make mistakes. Plus I know they've been recruiting for new support team members recently, so maybe someone new was just getting used to the role and reacted a bit too strongly.

It's just that historically (and this has absolutely nothing to do with you), this is far from the first post like this, and in the vast majority of those threads it turned out the OP didn't provide all the facts. People in those threads made judgments about the staff, only to find out how wrong those judgements were when all the facts came out.

So historically you're in bad company, but FWIW I'd always like to believe people are being honest, and it would be great if this worked out such that, instead of calling you a troll, a new staff member showed up here and said "hey I'm new, I goofed a bit on this one, your suspension has been lifted." IF you're being honest I am absolutely rooting for that outcome.

[Hotel]

First off, I should say that I commend you for trying to handle all this as respectfully as possible. That was certainly not the case with many posts of this sort in the past.

And look, I did leave open a 5% chance, because of course the staff are human beings and human beings make mistakes. Plus I know they've been recruiting for new support team members recently, so maybe someone new was just getting used to the role and reacted a bit too strongly.

It's just that historically (and this has absolutely nothing to do with you), this is far from the first post like this, and in the vast majority of those threads it turned out the OP didn't provide all the facts. People in those threads made judgments about the staff, only to find out how wrong those judgements were when all the facts came out.

So historically you're in bad company, but FWIW I'd always like to believe people are being honest, and it would be great if this worked out such that, instead of calling you a troll, a new staff member showed up here and said "hey I'm new, I goofed a bit on this one, your suspension has been lifted." IF you're being honest I am absolutely rooting for that outcome.

I'm honestly nervous that I came off too good because If I'm in the wrong it looks even worse now. I pray that I can get a reinstatement before all the dragons are dead this week :)

[Bardp1999]

The staff hold little to no value in the court of public opinion - FYI

If your petition has failed then there will be nothing to do but wait out the 7 or 30 days

[Hotel]

The staff hold little to no value in the court of public opinion - FYI

If your petition has failed then there will be nothing to do but wait out the 7 or 30 days

I stated my intentions for this thread a million times. To my knowledge, they aren't aware of my petition.

[Coridan]

If you're high enough to clear all the orcs solo are you even getting XP for it? If you're just interested in the Idol why care about someone nabbing one or two spawns by the zoneline for scalps/xp/faction whatever he was there for? In Classic there were usually two orc groups because nobody was running around with Green Jade Broadswords and other super cheap Kunark gear.

[NegaStoat]

If you're high enough to clear all the orcs solo are you even getting XP for it? If you're just interested in the Idol why care about someone nabbing one or two spawns by the zoneline for scalps/xp/faction whatever he was there for? In Classic there were usually two orc groups because nobody was running around with Green Jade Broadswords and other super cheap Kunark gear.

Being in range to get experience from a mob with a key item has never, ever, ever been an issue with camps on the server. Like, ever. The idol that drops is a specific one of a kind deal with its effect that is especially useful in raiding, or for personal use in reaching a location that would normally be a death sentence to try. Plane of Mischief zone click is the first example that comes to mind.

There's no burden on any player to cheerfully farm plat in some other location and then enter EC hoping that an appropriate level player happened to score the item they need from a camp they were able to get experience from. A player mowing down orcs for CB belts? That kind of thing is garbage and should be called out. A player mowing down orcs for a specific item that might not even make an appearance of 3-4 days of camping, if their luck is bad? It's not even the same thing.

[Tupakk]

1st Suspensions is 7 days. 2nd 30 days. 3rd their discretion. For those that say they show up and talk to you first, they dont. They watch you and make a decision based on what they see.

On top of that they are back logged with petitions as is so it will be a few days if they even answer you.

People are asshole, I wouldnt put it past them to be in another guild and wanted the spawn spot for themselves and just out lawyerquested you.

Welcome to EQ :)

[Jimjam]

This petition was surely tactical and aimed at taking control of the camp by a rival guild.

Also, I thought pathing outdoor mobs couldn't be camped? Orcs, even idol, should be FTE. Let chaos reign!

[Toodles]

the better question is why are volunteer GMs even responding to petitions rn? Just let the server play out...

Nothing bad will happen, I promise.

Focus on reimbursements and shit.

Here here. As said in the recent drama posts and by wise people in real life, left adults work things out. The GM staff here have become like a nanny state government, throwing around arbitrary and subjective decisions on matters of ethics.
Also, if they'd stop focusing on 5% of the top end of the hierarchy and worried more about the life of the game outside of raiding, the server would be more healthy.


Also, seems like RnF material

You mean like Boutik's 'woe is me, I'm just an honest salesman making a living' vanity thread?
A quarter or more of threads in General Chat belong in RnF. I've been calling them out for ages, to keep them where they belong. Maybe the GMs could raid quest less and forum quest more for once.

Seriously. We're suspending people for ks'ing level 20 generic orcs? Tell me there's more to this story...

Probably not..likely it's not the content though whom was involved and tie's in with the below..


What was your response to GM's? Especially for KS or camp issues, GM's will message you and ask about the situation first. They don't blindly suspend for no reason.
Really? Ever met any of Chest's pocket GMs that would insta suspend/ban people within moments of a claim being made?
90% of cases where said person has been banned was because they either mouthed off to GM
Mouthing off to a GM? Subjective considerations aside, that is not an infraction. If Sirken can log on at Stormfeather, and start killing, porting and suspending people for not following his sudden on the spot change to the rules so his friend can keep a named camp, then I think it's only appropriate we can have cart blanch to say what we like.

We all make this assumption that the game managers actually review cases like these, and frankly I find little evidence they do given the time frames involved and the absurd results we get most of the time.
The likelihood is they don't work from a platform of fact finding and evidence based decision making, it's more likely proponderence of evidence - so in short, if player A complains then the first thing they think is 'why would someone make a complaint? It must have happened!'
or player A complains and the GM thinks 'I know this person, they're telling the truth!'
Welcome to the world of where the accused has to defend themselves or in these cases, never has the chance.
Thank you college campuses for indoctrinating our neckbearded male college students into swallowing the #believethevictim pill

[aaezil]

The rules on this server are not clearly stated anywhere and will change based on how a gm feels that day. Hence why we have this exact thread every few weeks.

[Mead]

no guides will be available for question as they're all unpaid volunteers and don't have time for such trivial matters

[turbosilk]

I always thought suspensions were 30 days.. Either way that sucks man. From the details i can see.. I actually side with you.. Whether you did the right thing or not rule wise, i am a supporter of people can and need to use more common sense... If i see something camped, i just move on without even asking. I don't want to know if i can have 1 spawn out of your 6 mobs, or how long your gonna be. I just legitimately move on and find something else to do. And that's what homey shoulda done.. Seen it was camped, caught agro, shoulda kept moving. Instead he threw a fit, and this is where you are now.

It has to be taken into consideration that handing drops off to hold a camp could be considered the same as corpsing an AC ring and continuing to camp the AC.

There are also reasons why the vast majority of the people on the server have never been suspended or banned their entire time playing. Can't go wrong with "Play Nice Policy".

[Xaeophi]

wait.. I thought in order to hold a camp you had to clear the surrounding mobs around it too?
Think of Sir Lucan. Isnt the rule to hold the camp being you have to kill Jentry and that other guard in the room with him? Cant just "Hide" in the room afk til he spawns?

[Legidias]

You're thinking of dungeons. That issue with Lucan never got an actual response afaik.

Outdoors = you can claim a single spawn (i.e. stormfeather) as long as you clear that single spawn.

[Wonkie]

Being in range to get experience from a mob with a key item has never, ever, ever been an issue with camps on the server. Like, ever. The idol that drops is a specific one of a kind deal with its effect that is especially useful in raiding, or for personal use in reaching a location that would normally be a death sentence to try. Plane of Mischief zone click is the first example that comes to mind.

There's no burden on any player to cheerfully farm plat in some other location and then enter EC hoping that an appropriate level player happened to score the item they need from a camp they were able to get experience from. A player mowing down orcs for CB belts? That kind of thing is garbage and should be called out. A player mowing down orcs for a specific item that might not even make an appearance of 3-4 days of camping, if their luck is bad? It's not even the same thing.

He was saying let the lowbie rando get exp/scalps and just camp the idol guy

He spawns in 1 spot only yas?

[Naerron]

what you did is called zone disruption

[Naerron]

wait.. I thought in order to hold a camp you had to clear the surrounding mobs around it too?
Think of Sir Lucan. Isnt the rule to hold the camp being you have to kill Jentry and that other guard in the room with him? Cant just "Hide" in the room afk til he spawns?

what about stormfeather then?

[aaezil]

You're thinking of dungeons. That issue with Lucan never got an actual response afaik.

Outdoors = you can claim a single spawn (i.e. stormfeather) as long as you clear that single spawn.

There is an official response on lucan (had to petition to get the answer) and it's that you have to clear lucan's room to claim lucan (even though the other spawns aren't PHs and have nothing to do with the camp) You won't find this information in the rules anywhere, though. You have to literally petition or get petitioned to find out how to play by the rules on this server.

[wittles]

Maybe it's just the lower levels, but I've found a relative lack of respect for camps so far. In CB, we were camping Wall and someone kept grabbing mobs from our camp. I asked them to stop, they ran off, then just pulled from the other side of our camp - which actually ended up causing trains more than once because the mobs ran through multiple camps.

Camping orc highway in Oasis, a higher-level twink was grabbing orcs when we had no problem clearing it. Same with crocs last night.

Anyway, I have an actual question: The "one spawn" rule, is that a spawn camp or a specific mob? For example, if you're camping a named for a drop, is someone free to kill everything else except that named? Or is the "spawn" considered that entire room/camp?
The highway isn't a camp, neither is P1 or P2. TR in CB is a camp, but Dvinn is FTE unless you're sitting in the tower.

I Find camps are pretty well respected. The odd douchebags are the exception, not the rule.

[aaezil]

The highway isn't a camp, neither is P1 or P2. TR in CB is a camp, but Dvinn is FTE unless you're sitting in the tower.

I Find camps are pretty well respected. The odd douchebags are the exception, not the rule.

None of what you just said is in the rules and is in fact just made up.

[chromis]

wwjd

[Rader]

This is more of an etiquette question versus a "Camp Rule"

King camp in Seb, three members die and another has to leave. Rep is a rogue who joins under the pretense of helping the corpse dragging/CotH/rezzing. Group leader is maybe a bit naive in their choice of passing group leadership around, and the rogue rep screws over the rest of the group by bailing and taking the camp with guildies.

What is the appropriate response? Ignore the a$$hat; train him when the opportunity arises; give him a 0 rez under the pretense of a 96 hoping he doesn't notice; port him to the wrong zone by "accident"; contact his guild leadership (Tempest is the guild, and Brossassin is the character, if anyone is curious); or congratulate him on a splendid well played steal of a somewhat decent camp?

[Coridan]

He was saying let the lowbie rando get exp/scalps and just camp the idol guy

He spawns in 1 spot only yas?

Exactly, I was asking why the OP really cared about the other guy getting the other spawns if he was just there for the idol.

[Kubaton]

There are no camps.. If someone comes to your "camp" and attacks a mob (doesnt matter if its named or not) and you are not the first to attack - you WILL be suspended for ksing.

Matter of fact. Happened to me.. 7 day suspension for defending my own camp and they called it KSing.

[Kubaton]

I quote
"When it comes to camps and defending your camp we tell folks, don't take matters into your own hands. If someone is encroaching on your camp you need to /petition. Never attack a mob that another player has touched it always looks bad for you."

So - to me, it seems that there are no camps..

Your camps arguments are moot lol =)

[ZiggyTheMuss]

There is more to the story here, I have done some straight up douche moves in my time here and have never been suspended or talked to a GM.

[Hotel]

There is more to the story here, I have done some straight up douche moves in my time here and have never been suspended or talked to a GM.

Hot Take. More to the story is: On top of missing a full raid cycle I also missed a quake. Feelsbadman.

Still haven't had any response from GMs on the petition thread since posting immediately after my suspension.

[Tupakk]

Hot Take. More to the story is: On top of missing a full raid cycle I also missed a quake. Feelsbadman.

Still haven't had any response from GMs on the petition thread since posting immediately after my suspension.

you wont get one. Just eat you suspension and move on is the best you can do.

Also what Kub said is true. IF someone steals mobs from your camp let them and petition.


He played you and you fell for the bait. Now you know.

[Hotel]

you wont get one. Just eat you suspension and move on is the best you can do.

Also what Kub said is true. IF someone steals mobs from your camp let them and petition.


He played you and you fell for the bait. Now you know.

Totally acknowledge it is what it is. Would still be nice to know how long of a ban I have to eat. Assuming 7 days since this is first pnp first offense since 2015 (Was even more of a noob and I intentionally tried to ks hill giants from someone who was being a dick and just thought I would get away with it :rolleyes:) but I'm not sure.

[Tupakk]

If its more than 7 days then after the 10th i would say something in a petition.

[Muggens]

I love Menden

[Dreenk317]

What most likely happened. Is you were doing exactly what you said you were doing. You attacked 5-6 mobs that were already engaged by the other player. And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did not realize the camp rules for an outdoor zone and thought you were in the right.

Here is what the other player experienced. He was trying to exp with the safety of a zone line nearby. He saw you at idol camp, and knew the rules enough to know he could take the other orcs. You repeatedly tried to steal his kills. You have an <Aftermath> guild tag. They have reputation for being NOT newbies. Therefore he assumed you knew the rules and were acting maliciously. He petitions you. GM looks at logs. Sees repeated infractions on your part. Issues 1 week suspension (usually the norm in situations like this).

When looked at like this. It does not matter what you thought, or what your intentions were. You repeatedly broke the rules, and probably showed no remorse. Did you ever send the guy a tell asking him why he was stealing your mobs? Clearly you thought he was doing so or you wouldn't have cared enough to try to kill them.

[Hotel]

and probably showed no remorse. Did you ever send the guy a tell asking him why he was stealing your mobs? Clearly you thought he was doing so or you wouldn't have cared enough to try to kill them.

I agree with your post until this point, which makes no sense. If I believed I was in the right, which I did, why would I act with remorse?

Once I saw him taking my perceived mobs, I tpyed in /ooc "I'm camping orcs", I didn't pm him directly, and he didn't pm me after that ooc. I assumed he was killing orcs for xp and scalps, what would be any other reason?

Could have I engaged him in a more diplomatic manner, obviously. But I'm trying to relax and play a game not a lawyer simulation.

[Bardp1999]

I'm trying to relax and play a game not a lawyer simulation.

Wrong server then my friend

[Hotel]

Wrong server then my friend

Meh.

Definitely sucks when it happens like this, but the exceptions don't make the rule. I respect the people who are trying to maintain this server.

[Dreenk317]

I agree with your post until this point, which makes no sense. If I believed I was in the right, which I did, why would I act with remorse?

Once I saw him taking my perceived mobs, I tpyed in /ooc "I'm camping orcs", I didn't pm him directly, and he didn't pm me after that ooc. I assumed he was killing orcs for xp and scalps, what would be any other reason?

Could have I engaged him in a more diplomatic manner, obviously. But I'm trying to relax and play a game not a lawyer simulation.

What I meant by no remorse. Is that there were no logs of you sending him any tells saying anything about trying to clear up any sort of camp confusion. Not that you were acting maliciously. So, from a GM's perspective, the logs paint a very clear picture of you repeatedly kill stealing, and never giving any explanation as to why.

[aaezil]

You sound just like folks from aftermath.

Good fit i’d say

[Maliant]

Ban is really however long until a GM can look at it (IE Sirken) and possibly talk to you.

I found I was banned one day earlier this year and put in a petition, it took 3 months to even find out what I was banned for. Apparently someone (Eliashib?), must have found my Lucan tracker Eliashibsux’s name offensive :(

Whatever you do don’t bump your petition thread or it goes to the bottom of the pile. Good luck man, you are definitely going to miss many more cycles. Once you are banned you placed in the bottom of the help bin, you are effectively in time-out.

[Frudrura]

Yeah, people can be wack, have to be careful.

[maskedmelon]

There are no camps.. If someone comes to your "camp" and attacks a mob (doesnt matter if its named or not) and you are not the first to attack - you WILL be suspended for ksing.

Matter of fact. Happened to me.. 7 day suspension for defending my own camp and they called it KSing.

This is the answer you are looking for OP. Camps are grey, ksing is not. If you attack a mob someone else has already engaged, you get the boot. defending your camp by
KSing is not a staff sanctioned method of dispute resolution.

A wise hobbit once said "your not entitled to anything except death." This holds as true in the real world as it does in norrath.

namaste~

[Ghostly]

It makes sense they would hold a level 60 in a competitive guild more accountable than your average player I guess, but I'm still very new to the server so I'm unaware of some of the basic etiquette stuff.

This is a problem in and of itself. Everyone should be held to the same standards, regardless of guild, reputation, etc. It should never come down to "I'm in a better guild than the guy reporting me, so i should have known the rules better than he does". That's just ridiculous.

[Muggens]

Girl you want to come to my hotel, baby I will leave you my room key.*
I'm feelin' the way you carry yourself girl*
And I want to get with you 'cause you's a cutie*
So if you want to come to my hotel, all you gotta do is holler at me

[Maliant]

Need update, are you still banned?