Need Feedback on New Buff Lines Page

[loramin]

I recently created a new wiki page for buff lines. The goal of the page is to answer questions like "which buff gives me the most of ___ stat?" or "which ___ buffs stack with other ___ buffs?" Also, it can settle the age-old question of "do we need the group version of buff ___ or is the single-target version just as good?"

The page is http://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines, and as it says at the top it's still a work in progress.

I'm looking for any feedback people are willing to give. Anything I got wrong, anything that's missing, anything that's bad layout-wise, etc. Also I'd just like to know whether the page is useful or not, because I'm considering making similar pages for DDs, DoTs, etc., but only if people will actually find them helpful.

[baakss]

Very neat! Couple things I think would be cool:

For items separating worn from clickies (fungi tunic vs fungi staff)

Including potions (ds potion comes to mind)

Maybe some elegant way to estimate bard songs better? Like selo’s is 65% but in practice is way higher. Maybe even just the maximum so people could play with numbers of things like “what’s the highest dmg shield possible”.

[TorrastEQ]

Holy Armor and Center are mixed around in the AC Buff section.

[bigjeff100]

Nice job Loramin!!!!! I didn't see anything about the mana tick from the druid spell- Mask of the hunter. I know it stacks with POTG and Clarity's, doesn't stack with Form of the Hunter. But this page is gonna be awesome once you're done!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_the_Hunter

[Troxx]

Shaman str AND dex will stack with focus (if focus is cast last). 128 str and 120 dex if stacked correctly.

[Troxx]

Also ...

-I don’t see the Druid/ranger skin lines other than potg
-natureskin +4 hp regen/tick; skin like nature +2 regen (regen stacks with other hp regen)
-divine glory +150 and divine str +200hp stacks with most all other hp
-divine purpose pal self only regen 8 per tick (costs 3 mana/tick)
-necro lich lines for mana regen

[Sicc]

Dmf for pr. Thanks for working on this.

[cearobinson]

Hey Loramin! This is an awesome resource, thanks! Adding some sort of annotation for group buffs (or even a specific section for them) would be cool.

[Pringles]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Deliriously_Nimble

All those item clicks are wrong. I haven't been able to login to wiki for a long time now due to cookies being disabled or I would fix it myself.

[White_knight]

Paladin Divine Strength +200hp buff.

[TomisFeline]

Awesome work! Super valuable and something that has been lacking a long time

Think the house/ac table needs a rework to be more clear.

VoG from enchanter (will make it into a couple columns there) (can't remember if enchanter Speed of Shissar was there). Enchanter plain str buffs might be missing too

+Attack table

+Dmg absorb table/column (could throw it into hp one). Think rune, bedlam, bard nivs, type stuff

Enchanter bedlam line of spells in the str column

Are major/minor shielding stuff present? Self only :/

Also enchanter ac line (which, iirc, is avoidance AC not mitigation AC aka materially different from clerics, so maybe worth noting)

Thanks again it is excellent

[Xap]

Fantastic idea loramin, you are truly the p99 wiki master. I don't have a ton to add in terms of corrections/etc but just wanted to let you know this kind of thing is super appreciated!

Going to be super handy when making new chars with spell lines I'm not familiar with,

[Muggens]

Very Nice! FoS adds str, VoG, Wiz manaregen(self) are stuff i noticed are missing. Atk buffs ås well

[turbosilk]

Great start! Bard mana songs are missing.

[loramin]

Thanks all for the feedback, this was exactly what I'd hoped for!

I'm a little ... distracted by the 20% bonus right now, but I'll incorporate all the fixes mentioned shortly, and post back when the page is completely fixed.

[Bardp1999]

God this is going to be hell to figure out what piece of which buff stacks with each other. Best of luck.

[Sacer]

Good job!

Illusion: Troll - Increase Hitpoints by 1 per tick
DMF give poison resistance
Some of the clicky flowers from PoM stack with other resist buffs.
Enlightment also give +mana
SoS in the haste list, the chanter epic clicky haste

[TomisFeline]

Add to troll +1hp Regen the iksar illusion
Plus dmg shield from fire illusion
Plus (I think +10?) Str from earth elemental illusion

[Dolalin]

The haste spells section is missing Visions of Grandeur.

[MrHooker]

Great work Loramin. I noticed a few things missing. Under Fire Resist all the Mage fire damage shields give FR. They range from 10-33 FR. I believe they stack with all the other Fire Resist spells as well. Lastly SoW, Wolf Form and Greater wolf form are also castable by ranger. 30, 49, 56 respectively.

Azyke/Striider

[Wonkie]

i dont see call of the predator(ranger) on the page, it's an atk buff

[Zemus]

Maximum HP is

Protection of the Glades +470
and Symbol of Marzin at +700

instead of Aegolism +1100

although it is less practical

[loramin]

Thanks all, please keep the feedback coming!

I'm working through it very slowly, because it turns out EQ has a lot of buffs (even after spending several hours I'm only on page 2 of the thread). But all this feedback is super helpful, and I promise I will add everything everyone posts as soon as I can find time.

[MrHooker]

Maximum HP is

Protection of the Glades +470
and Symbol of Marzin at +700

instead of Aegolism +1100

although it is less practical

Also Shaman Focus of Spirit will also stack with symbol of Marzin and PoTG giving you another 405. Lastly if your STA is not maxed you can get your HP buffed even more with Riotous health. This is generally the buff setup I send tells for if playing melee.

Azyke/Striider

[Foxplay]

Mana regen didn't include the necromancer Lich line =3

Also on some of the buffs you left out that Ranger can cast them too (like on SoW and some of the druid hp buffs)

[loramin]

Well it took me awhile, but I finally incorporated everyone's feedback into the buff lines page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines), and now it's almost done.

The page now has a ton more buffs on it, a maximum buff summary for every stat, and filters so that you can choose to only see buffs for a certain class (or classes), only item buffs, etc.

Before I remove the warning at the top and make the page "official" I'd really appreciate it if I could trouble folks for one more round of feedback. Specifically I'm looking for:


any missing buffs/buff lines
any buffs incorrectly shown as stacking together (or not)
any bugs in the filters
any buff amounts that are off (for bards keep in mind the instrument factor is applied)
anything else you see wrong


As before any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[jazzman_so_fresh]

Firstly .. awesome! Second, I noticed...

Bards have two ds songs that stack.

Bard hp Regen: they have two songs that stack. Whether niv's stacks with other classes is unknown to me.

Also, consider not applying the 28 mod to bard songs that are singing. We all don't have an epic, so the practical value of these songs is almost 1/3 of what is listed. Anyway, awesome!

[Champion_Standing]

Nice work

[loramin]

Bards have two ds songs that stack.
I assume you mean the Psalm songs and the Rondo song? If so I've fixed that in the page (there are now two Bard DS categories: Psalm and Rondo).

Bard hp Regen: they have two songs that stack. Whether niv's stacks with other classes is unknown to me.

I see:

Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity
Psalm of Mystic Shielding
Niv's Melody of Preservation
Cantana of Replenishment


I don't play a bard, so do you (or another Bard player) know which of those stack with each other and which don't?

Also, consider not applying the 28 mod to bard songs that are singing. We all don't have an epic, so the practical value of these songs is almost 1/3 of what is listed. Anyway, awesome!

The guide now shows the base number, followed by the max-instrument-adjusted number in parentheses, so everyone can see both. All of the maximum tables still use the max-instrument-adjusted number since their goal is to show the greatest increase possible for that stat.

[jazzman_so_fresh]

Awesome! I will be looking at this every raid and group.

As for your middle question, clarity is a 5 mana so g each cast. Not an HP thing. I'm not sure about mystic shielding. Niv's stacks with cantana, but since it has a dmg absorption component, they sometimes don't take hold.

[Terrel]

Nice work, Loramin!

Best (and only) modifier for singing for bards is 1.8, vis a vis the epic.

So some of those boosted songs you have listed are multiplied too high :)

[jazzman_so_fresh]

The bard disc doesn't apply to singing?

[Terrel]

Ahh, pure tone? Yeah, sorry, it does. Should have noted that.

[Nagoya]

Great stuff loramin :)

I did a few ninja edits. but i like the concept!

[loramin]

I did a few ninja edits.

Thank you! People who edit the wiki themselves are the best.

[turbosilk]

At the top of the Chr buff section it lists +55 (Shaman/Enchanter). It should only state (Shaman).


Sorry the server isn't letting me make an account currently to edit.

[the best]

Wizard epic does all kinds of magical things and is far better than manaskin.

[turbosilk]

Bards Cantana is also mana regen and stacks with Cassindra's. Per the wiki Cassindra's can be pulsed 2x per tick so that mana regen is double the 7.

[Misek84]

Cold Resist
White flower stacks with Circle of Summer but not cold resists

Poison Resist
Green Flower Stacks with Resist Poison and Talisman of Shadoo

[cubiczar]

Maybe another enchanter can chime in for the higher level spells but beserker strength/rampage line of spells stacks with rune spells (upto rune 3 at least). So the max should be those two lines added I believe.

Edit: Also again maybe another enchanter can chime in on the stacking of Feedback? 11pt dmg shield should be targetable but I have no info on stacking cause I haven't gotten the research parts yet to try it out.

[loramin]

At the top of the Chr buff section it lists +55 (Shaman/Enchanter). It should only state (Shaman).


Sorry the server isn't letting me make an account currently to edit.

That's actually correct, but it was confusing, so thank you for mentioning it!

The problem was that the different buff lines don't have official names. I think Verant had official "slots" for them, but I haven't found a good reference for what buffs go in what slots, so that doesn't help. What you're seeing is the name of the buff line, which I called "Enchanter and Shaman" ... even though the top buff in that line is a Shaman-only spell.

To avoid such confusion I'm moving away from class-based names for buff lines, and in this specific case I re-named the line to "Primary" (since it is the primary Charisma buff line). If you see any other buff lines where the name is confusing like this please let me know and I'll fix it.

Wizard epic does all kinds of magical things and is far better than manaskin.

I've added Barrier of Force (the Staff of the Four/Wizard Epic buff) to both the damage absorbtion and mana regen sections. Thank you!

Bards Cantana is also mana regen and stacks with Cassindra's. Per the wiki Cassindra's can be pulsed 2x per tick so that mana regen is double the 7.

This one is tricky, so I'm really glad you brought it to my attention. Thanks!

Although it is technically a buff (Allakhazam assures me it lasts three ticks) the way it works (ie. the fact that it can be "pulsed" and the fact that it stacks with other Bards) means that in practice it works a lot more like a direct mana injection. Think about the Necromancer "twitch" line: it too gives more mana if you spam it (with a cooldown-reducing item), and multiple Necromancers can "stack" together.

Also, if it truly was a buff, than when you pulse it everyone should see two icons for it, and when you have multiple bards in the group you should see lots of icons ... but I'd imagine that you only ever see one. Plus, if you were actually re-casting it repeatedly your mana should go up by more: instead of giving 7 mana every time you cast it it should give 7 mana the first tick, then 14 the next tick (when you repeat it, but the first one is still going), then 21 the next tick, then 21 for every further tick as long as you keep "pulsing".

In other words, if I understand it correctly (and I might not be; my lack of bard knowledge is showing here) it's a buff that doesn't act like one. The best way I could fit that into the guide was to double the amount of mana Cantana gives (at max), and add a note about how multiple bards stack. But I'd really appreciate any feedback from experienced bards about whether I have this right.

Cold Resist
White flower stacks with Circle of Summer but not cold resists

Poison Resist
Green Flower Stacks with Resist Poison and Talisman of Shadoo

Added, thank you!

Logically one would expect that the same would be true for Fire Resist (ie. Red Flower and Circle of Winter), and for Disease Resist (the Black Flower and Talisman of Jasinth/Resist Disease). But Verant wasn't always logical :)

Does anyone know how those two work? Also does anyone know if anything stacks with the blue (magic resist) flower? Currently it seems like the worst flower (it's the only one that gets beaten by a player-castable buff), but if it stacked with group resist magic that would make it a whole lot better.
Maybe another enchanter can chime in for the higher level spells but beserker strength/rampage line of spells stacks with rune spells (upto rune 3 at least). So the max should be those two lines added I believe.

I have split the Berserker/Bedlam buffs into their own buff line. Thank you!

Edit: Also again maybe another enchanter can chime in on the stacking of Feedback? 11pt dmg shield should be targetable but I have no info on stacking cause I haven't gotten the research parts yet to try it out.

I'll wait on making this change until I get a stronger confirmation from an experienced Enchanter.