Need Guide ruling - Please end the madness

[Bardp1999]

Ok, so I understand why we have rules on this server. Half the population are neckbearding lawyerquesters, but the Sebelis/Trakanon rules are so outdated it makes me want to vomit.

100% of guilds COTH race to Trakanon, there is no other viable way to kill and contest him on this server, its been like this forever. Even if you had your entire raid force logged in at the entrance ready to go and knew the exact time he would spawn, I very much doubt you could beat the "normal" COTH race to Trakanon.

For the love of god can we please get the "OK" to XP in Seb while Trak is in window?
If you want a quick pick up group, Seb is about the only 55+ option there is. I dont always have time to put a group together and travel half way across the world. Most raiders who are contesting raid mobs have multiple (5-10?) level 50+ characters. We all know what not to do, just allow us to be past the zone line when he is in window and keep the requirement of having to zone out or switch to a different character.

[Bardp1999]

inb4 (sorry you no XP)

[Mead]

sorry you got gm banned and won't get answer

[Oleris]

My understanding is that you could always zone out and re-enter the zone to negate this. The problem is that there will always be one person that doesn't do it and ruin it for everyone. Hence why guilds don't risk it.
most
Maybe they should just not allow anyone to XP in the lower level starting at the jail to prevent guilds pre-clearing it?

[Wonkie]

it's a good rule. opens up good camps for regular people.

i do not consent

[Nibblewitz]

"madness"

[enjchanter]

Farm juggs while Socking trak sounds like a good strat

[Nexii]

Ok, so I understand why we have rules on this server. Half the population are neckbearding lawyerquesters, but the Sebelis/Trakanon rules are so outdated it makes me want to vomit.

100% of guilds COTH race to Trakanon, there is no other viable way to kill and contest him on this server, its been like this forever. Even if you had your entire raid force logged in at the entrance ready to go and knew the exact time he would spawn, I very much doubt you could beat the "normal" COTH race to Trakanon.

For the love of god can we please get the "OK" to XP in Seb while Trak is in window?
If you want a quick pick up group, Seb is about the only 55+ option there is. I dont always have time to put a group together and travel half way across the world. Most raiders who are contesting raid mobs have multiple (5-10?) level 50+ characters. We all know what not to do, just allow us to be past the zone line when he is in window and keep the requirement of having to zone out or switch to a different character.

Agree, make a poll for it. Aside from being at Fungi King I don't see how other common camps in Sebilis are really any faster to make it to Trakanon. Even King, it's sketchy for most classes to take advantage. IMO just let everyone park on the mountain, the rule has way more detriment (hurts leveling 50s) than benefit (competitive raiding)

[Bardp1999]

Farm juggs while Socking trak sounds like a good strat

That is precisely why this rule is in place. Chest Rockwall of <BDA> pulled this maneuver and fucked over the entire server in the process maybe 4-5 years ago so they made more ridiculous rules to keep people away from camping on spawn points

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

That is precisely why this rule is in place. Chest Rockwall of <BDA> pulled this maneuver and fucked over the entire server in the process maybe 4-5 years ago so they made more ridiculous rules to keep people away from camping on spawn points

Poopsocking was just a way for guilds that couldn't mobilize as fast to have a chance at a big target, it wasn't against rules on live. I'd say the blame lies more on the people who threw a fit over Chest and BDA poopsocking for a Trak kill.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

More on topic though, the no seb group rule is a bit overboard. I don't raid atm myself but I would think that just saying no one contesting can camp at King or beyond should be sufficient.

[Fifield]

voting no,

xp in any of the other high lvl zones, seb sucks

[Bardp1999]

This is one of the reasons people criticize this server, there are too many dumb rules that don't even really make sense half the time and would be impossible to find unless you scroll through the 50 pages of Sirkens posts with a magnifying glass. People have got banned from the forums for literally just copy & pasting the raid rules because they are so long and cumbersome that the joke is self evident.

Filing this one under NOT CLASSIC

[Wonkie]

This is one of the reasons people criticize this server, there are too many dumb rules that don't even really make sense half the time and would be impossible to find unless you scroll through the 50 pages of Sirkens posts with a magnifying glass. People have got banned from the forums for literally just copy & pasting the raid rules because they are so long and cumbersome that the joke is self evident.

Filing this one under NOT CLASSIC

no need to bash the staff son

filing this under bergers flippout

[Bardp1999]

You are part of the problem Pokesan, cant have civil discourse without "staff bashing" allegations.

Rogean as much as admitted in one of his posts that the rules need re-looked at - i''m pointing out that we should maybe start with getting rid of ZL penalties for XP groups on Kunark mobs.

[Wonkie]

You are part of the problem Pokesan, cant have civil discourse without "staff bashing" allegations.

Rogean as much as admitted in one of his posts that the rules need re-looked at - i''m pointing out that we should maybe start with getting rid of ZL penalties for XP groups on Kunark mobs.

its true, we do live in a society

[Bardp1999]

https://i.imgur.com/zLvN0kO.png

[Wonkie]

tells the guild, ^- in a cuck group

u can cuck whole guilds if you PL bots for them 24/7 365

[Bardp1999]

Stop trolling my thread. This is a post about Everquest, not imaginary women and $50 cups of coffee

[Wonkie]

Stop trolling my thread. This is a post about Everquest, not imaginary women and $50 cups of coffee

it's a bad thread. seb is off limits for raider scum

god bless staff

[Bardp1999]

tRAKON ius in window agAin

REEEEEeeEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

asdm.dmabsjkhdhblkjasddhjklasdhldjsd

[Bardp1999]

For the love of Christ will a Guide please say "yes its OK to camp Disco while Trakanon is in window as long as your guilds follows all the normal rules"

[Dreenk317]

Well, apparently your braknars dad. Just ask him.

[maskedmelon]

you can level up one of my characters in mistmoore or unrest if you can't do seb anymore spyder.

[Swish2]

It's a no from me, try Chardok.

[Tethler]

Agree with OP. The rule sucks. I don't want to level in KC. I have short playtimes so I often don't have time to form groups for places like Chardok or the Hole.

[Swish2]

Scout needs to be changed guys

[Vapos]

Scout needs to be changed guys

Agreed. Put Scout on a 2-4 hour spawn please. Not classic, you say? See Seafury Cyclops changes. Some things are just common sense.

[jazzman_so_fresh]

I don't see how being at most camps during the pop is a problem...at least the ones far from trak's lair.

What about this:. You need video proof of cheating to accuse a guild of something like parking in trak's lair. So why not exp near the entrance or ABC and a rival guild would have to capture video of you somehow cheating while you are in ABC.

[Swish2]

Also some items are getting overpriced. As someone who doesn't have a lot of plat I'd like to see rules on a cap on what sellers in EC are allowed to sell for.

(this isn't about what I want you understand, it's whats best for the server)

[Tethler]

It's a no from me, try Chardok.

Why are you in favor of this non-classic server rule in particular when you are constantly complaining about other server rules? Serious question.

[aaezil]

Most of the raid rules are too complicated + bad overall. SOS

[Cecily]

For the love of Christ will a Guide please say "yes its OK to camp Disco while Trakanon is in window as long as your guilds follows all the normal rules"

Sure. Go ahead.

[RaMaR]

This is one of the reasons people criticize this server, there are too many dumb rules that don't even really make sense half the time and would be impossible to find unless you scroll through the 50 pages of Sirkens posts with a magnifying glass.
People have got banned from the forums for literally just copy & pasting the raid rules because they are so long and cumbersome that the joke is self evident.

Filing this one under NOT CLASSIC
Free Old Sebilis!

[Xer0]

Agreed. Put Scout on a 2-4 hour spawn please. Not classic, you say? See Seafury Cyclops changes. Some things are just common sense.

you know what else isn't classic? all these rules on when things cna be camped, who can camp them etc.

[Thiefboy777]

Bring back Chardok AE

[Muggens]

Bring back Chardok AE

[newagemystic]

Make Sebilis Great Again!

[loramin]

you know what else isn't classic? all these rules on when things cna be camped, who can camp them etc.

And you know what else isn't classic. Not having a paid staff of GMs and a (sort of paid, with free EQ) staff of Guides supporting the server 24/7. But since we don't have one classic thing, it only makes sense that we can't have another classic thing which depends on it (ie. you can't expect the same CS/rules from a 100% volunteer server that you'd expect from a paid one).

Also, I think maybe this whole thread is barking up the wrong tree. If you want people to be able to XP in Sebilis without disrupting raids you don't need to lobby the staff: all you have to do is get the leaders of all raid guilds to agree on it. I'm not saying that will be easy, but if you can do it you've got a player agreement, and the staff (typically) supports those.

[kaev]

Also, I think maybe this whole thread is barking up the wrong tree. If you want people to be able to XP in Sebilis without disrupting raids you don't need to lobby the staff: all you have to do is get the leaders of all raid guilds to agree on it. I'm not saying that will be easy, but if you can do it you've got a player agreement, and the staff (typically) supports those.

No no no no no. You're missing the point. What these not so cute little snowflakes desperately desire is for the staff to enforce a ruleset that expressly favors the way they want to play, and to hell with everyone else. Although you've been around the block once or twice on this server, so I suppose you did know that already.

[roks1]

Raiders can exp in the Trak window, but you get a ban if you participate. There, you are halfway. You can get exp acknowledging your lack of participation in any trak engagements. Now you're halfway to making the rule a little more sane.

[Veleria]

Honest question. I don't know this rule. If I am grouped in Seb while Trak Spawns and I continue grouping without participating in the kill, is that something that will cause my guild to be disqualified? I don't have the gear to participate anyhow and am currently focused on leveling/gearing for future raiding.

[aaezil]

If only the rules were clearly and concisely documented somewhere. Sorry they are not. Maybe someone is insane enough to go through the 9 years of forum post rulings/petition rulings and compile a list of zone/raid specific rules, but barring that im afraid this information is nigh impossible to find for the average person.

Good luck and i hope things change for the better!

[Cylock]

Ok, so I understand why we have rules on this server. Half the population are neckbearding lawyerquesters, but the Sebelis/Trakanon rules are so outdated it makes me want to vomit.

100% of guilds COTH race to Trakanon, there is no other viable way to kill and contest him on this server, its been like this forever. Even if you had your entire raid force logged in at the entrance ready to go and knew the exact time he would spawn, I very much doubt you could beat the "normal" COTH race to Trakanon.

For the love of god can we please get the "OK" to XP in Seb while Trak is in window?
If you want a quick pick up group, Seb is about the only 55+ option there is. I dont always have time to put a group together and travel half way across the world. Most raiders who are contesting raid mobs have multiple (5-10?) level 50+ characters. We all know what not to do, just allow us to be past the zone line when he is in window and keep the requirement of having to zone out or switch to a different character.

Your suggestion isn’t unreasonable, but my vote would be NO.

This is due to the few people that would lie and try to cheat to work around the system. I have seen it happen many many times in the past which is why rules like this exist.

Also keep in mind p99’s rules are a product of the environment and come from experiences dealing with players. So in other words if is wasn't for players lawyerquesting and attempting to manipulate the system you would of had less rules on p99.

[Tethler]

Honest question. I don't know this rule. If I am grouped in Seb while Trak Spawns and I continue grouping without participating in the kill, is that something that will cause my guild to be disqualified? I don't have the gear to participate anyhow and am currently focused on leveling/gearing for future raiding.

My understanding is that yes, you can. However, if you assist in the kill and you are caught then your guild will suffer the consequences. Since quite a few guilds do compete for trak, the majority of those players won't xp there during the window, so it's much harder to find a group even for the people who have no intention of going after trak.

[Bardp1999]

Honest question. I don't know this rule. If I am grouped in Seb while Trak Spawns and I continue grouping without participating in the kill, is that something that will cause my guild to be disqualified? I don't have the gear to participate anyhow and am currently focused on leveling/gearing for future raiding.

This is the problem, no you are not allowed to XP in any zone your guild is actively contesting because 8 years of Kunark brought about some shity tactics by the 10 guilds trying to kill 5 mobs every week.

The rules have devolved to where you can not even be past the entrance or you disqualify your guild entirely due to the 2 tracker rule. Any guild can have 2 trackers past the Zone Line. If you are past the zone line, you are treated as a tracker. Even if you have no intention whatsoever of participating in the kill (let alone socking the @#$%ing spawn), you are screwing your guild over if they are wanting to contest a raid mob. Its not a matter of picking "I want to XP" or "I want to kill Trak for the 5,000,000th time", its a matter of DQing your entire guild for wanting to XP.

That's the part of the rule that needs changed. Let people actually tracking track, let people actually XPing XP.

Example, the other day we were contesting VS in KC. We had one tracker in zone and I was the only other AM member in zone, so I was allow to XP as normal because we are not breaking the tracker rule. VS spawns, I zone out and back in and I can help with the kill. In no way shape or form was I ever actually tracking but I was treated as a tracker by the simple virtue of being past the Zone Line. Its all retarded.

#MakeP99GreatAgain

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

[aaezil]

Shitty cop out cylock response. Honestly expected better :(

[aaezil]

Guilds want common sense rules. Not this draconian shit that you cant even find rulings on easily.

[Veleria]

This is the problem, no you are not allowed to XP in any zone your guild is actively contesting because 8 years of Kunark brought about some shity tactics by the 10 guilds trying to kill 5 mobs every week.

The rules have devolved to where you can not even be past the entrance or you disqualify your guild entirely due to the 2 tracker rule. Any guild can have 2 trackers past the Zone Line. If you are past the zone line, you are treated as a tracker. Even if you have no intention whatsoever of participating in the kill (let alone socking the @#$%ing spawn), you are screwing your guild over if they are wanting to contest a raid mob. Its not a matter of picking "I want to XP" or "I want to kill Trak for the 5,000,000th time", its a matter of DQing your entire guild for wanting to XP.

That's the part of the rule that needs changed. Let people actually tracking track, let people actually XPing XP.

Example, the other day we were contesting VS in KC. We had one tracker in zone and I was the only other AM member in zone, so I was allow to XP as normal because we are not breaking the tracker rule. VS spawns, I zone out and back in and I can help with the kill. In no way shape or form was I ever actually tracking but I was treated as a tracker by the simple virtue of being past the Zone Line. Its all retarded.

#MakeP99GreatAgain

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

Thank you for the detailed response I will avoid grouping in the zone in that case. I do not want to risk disqualifying my guild.

[loramin]

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

Shitty cop out cylock response. Honestly expected better :(

Again, you guys are completely blaming the wrong person. Cylock's mission in life is not to make up rules so that everyone on P99 has less fun (and as he said, he's not even responsible for this rule, it's a product of P99 history).

Who you should be blaming is the guild leadership of this server. If they all said (for instance) "hey Rogean this rule is lame, and we all agree not to petition each other if someone is chilling in Sebilis and then joins a Trakkanon raid", I can all but guarantee Rogean will be ok with one less rule to enforce.

Or they could say "... and we all agree not to petition if someone is chilling in Sebilis and they don't join the raid" or "... if someone is chilling in Sebilis, a Trak raid starts, and they immediately deguild and don't join the raid". Whatever they can all agree on.

The point is, the staff has made it clear that as long as a rule change doesn't make more work for them, they have no personal investment in one arbitrary rule or another. They want everyone to have fun and enjoy raiding in EQ, and they want rules that they can easily enforce (seeing as how they're an all volunteer team with limited resources). That's it.

So again, I'm not saying it's easy to convince umpteen different prima donna guild leaders to agree on anything, but if you want to change this rule the path to doing so is through them, not through attacking the staff.

Thank you for the detailed response I will avoid grouping in the zone in that case. I do not want to risk disqualifying my guild.

For what it's worth, awhile back (and the rules might have been different then) I was able to deguild and stay at the King camp while my guild did Trak. I'm honestly not sure if that was kosher then, or if it's kosher now, but it seemed to fit the spirit of the rule and I didn't get in trouble that one time. No promises it will work for you though.

[loramin]

shit that you cant even find rulings on easily.

FWIW I started a wiki page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings) awhile back to compile rulings, and everyone is welcome to contribute to it. It's far from comprehensive, but if everyone who cared about the issue added just one new ruling, it'd get comprehensive pretty fast.

Also, another wiki project on my To Do list is is combining all of the different rule sources (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rules) into a single comprehensive rules document. It's going to take a lot of work (and ATM I'm focused on my new buff lines page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines)), but again anyone is welcome to help, and once we have those two pages I think it will help bring a lot of clarity to the server rules.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

I actually avoid sebfrom 55-60. It's part of the generic cookie cutter abc walmart brand leveling path... There are plenty of places to level 55 +, with much better exp I might add.

[Dithien]

Chardok is more fun. Enjoy it while you still can.

[Bardp1999]

I agree that Sebelis is pretty lame to level up in (at least past the first time or two or three). Sebelis was/is actually one of my favorite zones. The problem on P99 is that if I dnt have 2-3 hours or more to play, pretty much Seb is the only reasonable option for a quick /OOC LFG and there being a chance of actually getting a group. When I actually have time to explore I try to venture out. During some of the recent XP events I did multiple groups in The Hole, Chardok, and Wakening Lands.

The merits of Sebelis are not what I aim to debate in this thread, its the outdated and shit-filled raid policy for Trakanon (can extrapolate this to a few other mobs also probably, but Trak is the sore thumb that sticks out to me).

Somehow Naggy/SolB seems immune to this rule, but that's probably because Naggy routinely dies to <2 groups worth of players and doesn't have a key component... or because Sirken had some secret ruling buried within the 1000 posts of amendments we have to the raid rules...Or because people just don't really care about Naggy anymore because Core RMT crew has it on lock down.

[Solist]

Spot on! Core the openly public accessible DKP guild obsessed with a zone that drops nothing but no-drops is all about dat rmt!