level from 45-60 or wait pantheon release

[Acidreams]

Which will come first?

[deezy]

you could probably level about 5 characters to 60 before pantheon even makes it into beta

[GSZ]

Pantheon has at least 2 more years before it releases. I'm assuming you could do 45-60 before then, so that's your answer from me.

[d3r14k]

you could probably level about 5 characters to 60 before pantheon even makes it into beta

One recent dev stream outlined their excitement to move soon from pre-Alpha to Alpha in the near future.

Personally, I would rather them take their time and release a complete MMO than a half finished product. Seems like they are progressing along fine though.

[deezy]

One recent dev stream outlined their excitement to move soon from pre-Alpha to Alpha in the near future.

Personally, I would rather them take their time and release a complete MMO than a half finished product. Seems like they are progressing along fine though.

i am also excited to play pantheon once it comes out in 2049.

[feniin]

i am also excited to play pantheon once it comes out in 2149.

[Bardp1999]

I like how people still think Pantheon will be out in any sort of time frame where the people following it will still care. I quit following MMOs in development a long long time ago because my hopes have been shattered so many times.

[Fryhole]

I like how people still think Pantheon will be out in any sort of time frame where the people following it will still care. I quit following MMOs in development a long long time ago because my hopes have been shattered so many times.

^This.
I think the Pantheon devs had some kind of trouble in 2015 which caused them to restart at least some of the early Dev work. Getting out of Alpha in 2019 would be a huge milestone for them, so you have plenty of time. The good news is that they won’t be launching when WoW classic does, so at least there’s that.

[bomaroast]

If Pantheon makes it to market I will delete my p99 account. Not because I want to play an eq clone. Oh no, I certainly don't. And neither does the gaming market. It'll never be released.

[Cen]

I like pantheons core rules and gameplay but im finding it looks visually the same as everquest in 99 huehue :p

[GSZ]

I like pantheons core rules and gameplay but im finding it looks visually the same as everquest in 99 huehue :p

Really? I actually really like the graphics personally.

[Bardp1999]

Really? I actually really like the graphics personally.

In 2025 when it releases it will look like a Sega CD game compared to whats coming out.

[Fifield]

Continue playing P99 cause you will prob be let down with Pantheon as we have with all other mmo's in the last 15 years.

or

Play both cause they will certainly be different games.

[Lojik]

You could probably level from 45 years old to 60 years old before pantheon comes out

[Acidreams]

You could probably level from 45 years old to 60 years old before pantheon comes out

lol

[Acidreams]

The games will be so similar though, combine that with the fresh server incentive and a new world to explore etc. Its going to be one game or the other for me and imo a lot of others too.

[Dreenk317]

I think OP meant to say, lvl 45-60, or age 45-60 waiting for pantheon release.

[Meiva]

At least they don't have to compete with WoW. WoW is killing itself.

I hope they take their time with Pantheon and do it right. I had just seen a recent gameplay video and it is looking great.

[Evia]

Pantheon is looking good but because I've been burned before with eq2, vanguard, warhammer, eqnext ect its hard for me to get too excited for it. I have a healthy dose of skepticism in regards to the game this time around.

Id keep trudging to 60 in p99

[wittles]

You could take a 16 year break from P99, level another 8 toons to 60, cure cancer, fight chuck norris, and still have time before Pantheon becomes anything more than vaporware.

[Foxplay]

Yea even super optimistically, and super casual exp rate pretty sure you could get several 60s before pantheon releases...

[Jimjam]

Do something fun.

If you do 45-60 and when Pantheon comes out you feels you wasted your time, perhaps do something else with your time.

[Supaskillz]

Pantheon's pace has been really slow. I have a fringe view on this I am sure, but I think the standard of polish and testing people expect from modern games is too high. If there is a year of beta testing the live release releases a ton of solved content.

Classic eq released half tested content, raid content that was borderline impossible, items that turned out to be way too good and had to be removed and here we all are loving that experience enough to be on this emulator. Theorycraft the difficultly and make it a little harder than you think you should and see if people solve it or abuse it. Patches can tweak tuning, add zones and quests, etc.

[MamaKan]

If you're worried about "wasting your time" on EQ you have to rethink the relationship you have with gaming.

Ps : You guys are putting too many eggs in the Pantheon basket. I can guarantee it will disappoint (no games can survive 10 years of hype) if it ever does come out.

[Arkanjil]

One recent dev stream outlined their excitement to move soon from pre-Alpha to Alpha in the near future.

Personally, I would rather them take their time and release a complete MMO than a half finished product. Seems like they are progressing along fine though.

This. I’ll look forward to playing it if it ever releases.

[Bardp1999]

Even when Pantheon releases, it will likely take another 1-2 years and an expansion to make it even resemble remotely what you are expecting.

[Zekayy]

Lol yall shouldnt be hyped for pantheon at all you will be disapointed if anything it should teach us a lesson Brad has a history of leaving projects also Atlas is a perfect example of this its just a cash grab it was meant to be ark DLC but they turned it into its own game and it runs shittier and way worse then ark.do not invest time or money into these shitty unfinished games you will be disapointed

[BarackObooma]

I thought you could play now (pre-alpha) if you forked out $1000.

[Vanech]

One recent dev stream outlined their excitement to move soon from pre-Alpha to Alpha in the near future.

Personally, I would rather them take their time and release a complete MMO than a half finished product. Seems like they are progressing along fine though.

Luckily Pantheon isn't a matter of if, but when. They've already stated that they have full funding, the money they are getting from pledges is just speeding up their development time. They are not backed by any major publishing houses (EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc.) So There is no deadline or pressure to push the title out early and charge their player base for beta testing for them.

I am very excited for what Pantheon is doing. I am worried though that it won't be able to keep up without appealing to the casual market. Or that it will be a bust because they refuse to do pay to win or a cash market at all.

We all know how we feel about MMOs. We wouldn't be here if we didn't appreciate how hard it should be, but unfortunately there's a big difference between 1,500 and 1.5 million.

[Mblake1981]

At least they don't have to compete with WoW. WoW is killing itself.

Will still have to compete with its ghost. A lot of people have been raised on WoW and their expectations will no doubt shape the future in combination with current trends and mindsets, same way it was with EQ.

There is little that impresses me with todays outside of graphical prowess, but then I find myself questioning the art styles. They really like cutesy.

https://i.imgur.com/p3WuEd1.jpg

.. i mean..

https://i.imgur.com/V0tndr0.jpg?1

[Darkatar]

Lol yall shouldnt be hyped for pantheon at all you will be disapointed if anything

[ScaringChildren]

I'm looking forward to Phoenix...that comes out in like a week

[Muggens]

In Brad we trust <3

(Dont care about any new videogame and have not followed pantheon development, but damn I love Brad)

[Ennewi]

Classic EQ fans shit on McQuaid worse than SW original trilogy fans shit on Lucas. Although somehow this thread is missing the obligatory cocaine quip.

Not to get on a soap box or preach stentorian from the mount, but some of the cynicism here is verging on hyperbolic. Even with healthy levels of skepticism, it's evident that alpha is gaining enough momentum. As someone else mentioned, the team has already received the funding needed to complete their vision of the game, so all additional investments, emotional and financial, won't make or break the promise they're striving to keep.

The team hasn't hyped Pantheon at all, even when they were seeking an angel investor. In fact, while promoting it, they've consistently pumped the brakes on expectations. That undercuts all arguments that it's just another cash grab. It is slow going, but not Yeahlight slow. It isn't being treated as a hobby, but in the past definitely has had more of an open-ended passion project feel to it, not dissimilar to p99.

Graphics overhaul is now in the works. Lore is vastly different from EQ's.

If the cynics are right and this is as good as it gets, that isn't much of a victory, being right. Basically it means succumbing to confinement of a single virtual world that is no longer filled with surprises while living in a real world that is equally predictable, at least in terms of what game devs promise and fail to deliver on.

The wait between placeholders may be long. There may be a less than 1% chance that the named will pop and have the goods on it. But with Pantheon we don't have to stand at the spawnpoint, hold camp, and stare at the wall. We don't have to tell ourselves, this will be it, the one ultra-rare named that will free us from camp. If the game we've all been waiting for is released, everyone will be rushing to engage it first. Until then, zone out, click the empty space tirelessly, or just enjoy the ambiance that exists in its absence.

Atlas? /shrug

[kaev]

Classic EQ fans shit on McQuaid worse than SW original trilogy fans shit on Lucas. Although somehow this thread is missing the obligatory cocaine quip.

Didn't you mean to say that McQuaid fans who were utterly disappointed by Vanguard and then filled with disgust and loathing towards McQuaid & Butler over the shit those assholes pulled on their employess shit on McQuaid at most every opportunity and really don't give a damn about the cocaine. It was the shit way he treated his supporters and the far shittier way he fucked up his employees that marks him as worthy of every ounce of shit dumped on him, past present & future.

or something like that

[Sk00ba5t3v3]

I doubt Pantheon's development will survive the gaming crash we are currently wading into.

[Ennewi]

Didn't you mean to say that McQuaid fans who were utterly disappointed by Vanguard and then filled with disgust and loathing towards McQuaid & Butler over the shit those assholes pulled on their employess shit on McQuaid at most every opportunity and really don't give a damn about the cocaine. It was the shit way he treated his supporters and the far shittier way he fucked up his employees that marks him as worthy of every ounce of shit dumped on him, past present & future.

or something like that

Even if people vehemently resent McQuaid to all hell, which is a bit much if they weren't directly affected by his actions, one person does not a dev team make. And if people can't separate art from the flaws and past failures of the person largely seen as responsible for its creation than they're going to have a very small selection of art to choose from.

The amount of fuck, shit, ass and/or hole in your post is impressive though. But if we're criticizing than there were definitely better, more colorful descriptions and sharper insults you could have used to convey how much disdain you have for McQuaid. And now I deserve criticism for being an anal-retentive, masterfully bad debater. Or a shitty fucking asshole.

Or something like that.

[Uuruk]

I'm excited to donate to the Pantheon GoFundMe in hopes for receiving experience potions on P99.

[Vanech]

I doubt Pantheon's development will survive the gaming crash we are currently wading into.

You have a solid point with your concern. I agree with your misgivings, and I feel like it is something that needs to be addressed. There was a time that I would have backed Bethesda or Bioware without question when it came to RPGs but their parent companies have devolved the genre to absolute crap. Flies and everything.

The only saving grace that Pantheon has going for them is that they're not being paid or driven by a major publishing house. Wasn't Vanguard still under the directive of SoE when it was released?

[Mblake1981]

The only saving grace that Pantheon has going for them is that they're not being paid or driven by a major publishing house. Wasn't Vanguard still under the directive of SoE when it was released?

Yes, but so was original EQ under 989 studios/SOE.

[Vanech]

Yes, but so was original EQ under 989 studios/SOE.

I'm not being argumentative here but I thought it was 989 and Verant interactive initially, before Sony got their fingers into the pie?

[Mblake1981]

We all know how we feel about MMOs. We wouldn't be here if we didn't appreciate how hard it should be, but unfortunately there's a big difference between 1,500 and 1.5 million.

Its not just the difficulty, which depending on who you talk its hardcore or so easy. It was the time it was released, playing a fully online world that went on if you were there or not. Meeting all sorts of people. A game world that deep, for the time, and vast. The loot driven mechanic that is lampooned today but was obviously good enough to help spawn a genre that continuously tried to improve upon it with mixed results. There was nothing like it on the market.

As a guy that came from consoles in 99, to getting his first real PC in 2000, the game of EQ was a major step up into something very different than F-Zero and Mario. Computers were not consoles, were not trying to be consoles.

je ne sais quoi

[Mblake1981]

I'm not being argumentative here but I thought it was 989 and Verant interactive initially, before Sony got their fingers into the pie?

EverQuest is a 3D fantasy-themed massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) originally developed by Verant Interactive and 989 Studios for Windows PCs and was released by Sony Online Entertainment in March 1999 in North America

989 Studios was a division of Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) that developed games for the PlayStation consoles and Windows personal computers.

Verant Interactive launched EverQuest on March 16, 1999, through Sony with modest expectations

[Vizax_Xaziv]

You have a solid point with your concern. I agree with your misgivings, and I feel like it is something that needs to be addressed. There was a time that I would have backed Bethesda or Bioware without question when it came to RPGs but their parent companies have devolved the genre to absolute crap. Flies and everything.

The only saving grace that Pantheon has going for them is that they're not being paid or driven by a major publishing house. Wasn't Vanguard still under the directive of SoE when it was released?

Vanguard was Microsoft Game Studios @ release and when it failed to meet expectations SOE bought it

[Mblake1981]

Vanguard was Microsoft Game Studios @ release and when it failed to meet expectations SOE bought it

Ah, that's right. My vanguard info is spotty at best, like wow that game managed to hold my attention for about 2 weeks. 1 of those weeks was just trying to get something out of the purchase.

Were not special. Did not elicit wonder. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOfy8jvq32U)

[heyokah]

Its slowly coming along, and anyone who wants to play it should realize that's a good thing. Whatchu want? Companies are releasing games years from completion because people still buy them. People buy them then complain on the internet that they suck. I blame the millenials.

[Mblake1981]

Its slowly coming along, and anyone who wants to play it should realize that's a good thing. Whatchu want? Companies are releasing games years from completion because people still buy them. People buy them then complain on the internet that they suck. I blame the millenials.

dark clouds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MatKNNsZzt4)

[Hitmonkey]

It's going to be a giant shit show and dead in 3 months.

Instead of creating something original they're trying to copy and capture lightning in a bottle that never works out

[rekreant]

. Lore is vastly different from EQ's.



I dont think youve read any of the lore or class descriptions then. Pantheon is a carbon copy of Everquest and just like with Everquest Next pledges, they already have your money suckaaaaaa!

[rekreant]

Im way more excited for p99 "green/recycle" server starting than I am for any new IP who is just trying to recreate the past with a new face. Everquest is great because it was innovative, not because its an mmo. WoW got big cause it dialed the innovation up to 11 and streamlined the experience so more people could enjoy it. Those are the opposite ends of the spectrum and most of the stuff in between is garbage lol.

[fadetree]

Mmm, I don't think Everquest was great solely because it was innovative. At first that had a lot of impact, but I think a lot of what happened later was because of the difficulty. By 'difficulty' I mean the harsh death penalty, other time sinks, the need to group up, and the LONG grind to max level.
I have no idea what Pantheon will be like. There's a good chance it will fail, but that could be said about any new mmo. I think Pantheon will capture a certain niche market and if they can make that work financially then they will do fine. I certainly plan on playing it.

[Ennewi]

I dont think youve read any of the lore or class descriptions then. Pantheon is a carbon copy of Everquest and just like with Everquest Next pledges, they already have your money suckaaaaaa!

Not sure if trolling...probably, but just in case...

Where to begin? The classes I've read up on the most.

Dire Lords are looking to be quite the unconventional tank, absorbing the vitality of enemy by drenching their chainmail with its blood. There won't be any plate armor or shields for them to equip. Perhaps to compensate for this, the class comes with markedly better defenses against magical attacks than other tank classes. Yes, the concept/design could be described as a more fleshed out of version of Shadow Knights, but that would not be nearly descriptive enough. It is a hybrid of a hybrid, a class that will likely require its player to focus more on weapons and haste than armor sets, as their health will fluctuate too wildly in combat otherwise. Low AC targets (casters) would be ideal if that turns out to be the case. They also will be able to prevent mobs from being healed for a short duration. All of these features combined should solidify them as the most desired tank versus casters; in classic EQ, paladins handedly take that position. Further differentiating DLs from SKs, Pantheon gives them poleaxes with nuanced uses, dual wield, hate generation through aoe effect (which ties in with their lore), and the ability to hold aggro better than warriors and paladins in longer, drawn out fights. That last feature should make them solid off-tanks on raids; while everyone else is killing mob A, the DL is leeching mob B quite possibly with just the occasional patch heal while at the same time ensuring that aggro won't bounce around after the fact. Dire lords also will have the ability to tank a fraction of incoming damage of another player, giving them an additional role on raids (safeguarding an assigned caster) as well as extra desirability in experience groups. How many times do enchanters say "watch my pet rq gotta bio" before they afk and then the pet proceeds to hump them to death while the group scrambles to contain the hasted little pos?

Beginner paladins in Pantheon sound like they'll be more white/blue deck MTG than endgame paladins in EQ. They will be given a mirror image for cc/temporary off-tanking, among other spells/abilities which offer a lot more utility. There are no high elves in Terminus and of the elves that do exist, none can be holy knights. While extremely limiting in terms of roleplay, it is explained in the racial lore. Additionally, paladins will be vanquishers of the undead through built-in abilities, being constantly vigilant of and passively resistant to their presence; whereas in Norrath paladins could only pretend to be highly capable against the undead, half-believing it because of the lore, and a handful of quests, spells, and weapons.

Clerics will be able to cast a temporary wall, possibly allowing them to block off another group's train in dungeon settings. Also, iirc, there won't be a version of complete heal at all.

Druids will receive a more complex type of delayed heal that will make them desirable for "oh shit" moments when the cleric is tabbed out or busy building that wall.

Wizards will have familiars that draw mana from the surroundings and funnel it into their pool. In addition, wizards will also be able to blink ahead and lower resistances. Everything else is to be expected.

Summoners will be able to receive heals through their "secondary" pet's attacks, or they can choose to have the healing effect go towards their main pet. Both pet forms have potential to enhance one another depending on the elements at work. Summoners will also have greater control of their pets while benefitting from them through commands that won't give them the crowd control of an enchanter, but will provide them with a means of escape. Yes, it is essentially a magician, but the abilities are more evolved.

Monks will be even more resilient and self-reliant, having the ability to stun, slow enemy's cast, and cure poison/disease. They basically have a physical version of lesser paladin abilities along with hate management, likely meaning they will be capable off-tanks once again. Additionally, monks will have flying kick for nostalgia, but it comes with a knockback which opens up possibilities in PVE and PVP locations with long drops. Yes, they have mend and feign death; if they didn't, few people would want to play them. It's the monk class everyone knows, but with spiritual touch.

Gnomes are ghosts in the machine. The way a bottom crawler will select a shell, they have collectively fashioned together an appearance to obscure their condensed energy. If you're looking for an EQ-equivalent, they are more like futuristic clockworks than the pudgy, cave-dwelling curmudgeons. But even that is a poor description.

Halflings won't be hobbitses, but instead more wiry and mischievous looking, with a style similar to the Gorillaz. And the changeup is not merely superficial; their lore has nothing to do with the shire or precious jumjum stalks.

It could have been said that the skar were just iksars reskinned, but they have since undergone a makeover, appearing as unnatural beings that will likely have even worse faction issues than Kunark's lizards.

No dark elves. Instead, emo merfolk.

By the sounds of it, racial benefits won't be so powerful as to create situations where there's one clear choice per class and anything else will be looked down upon. Cut to EverQuest and the two most obvious choices are frontal stun immunity and innate regeneration.

And no, the gods of Terminus are not the gods of Norrath. Considering the title of the game, I would think that above all else would be where they make every effort to separate themselves from other MMORPGs, including EQ. Since it seems that you didn't read the lore, I will just recommend the
audiobook version (https://youtu.be/fh9Au9CrVpc) instead of making this post any more TLDR than it already appears to be.

Again, the lore is vastly different. It might draw from familiar material but it's turned on its head and switched around. Iirc Terminus giants are few and far between, being reclusive, survivors of time long since passed, and players will likely have to travel to remote locations if they are to find them. In Norrath, giants are only absent on the lesser continents and the majority of them are kill on sight / not directly involved with quests.

There are definite, undeniable similarities and aspects of the world that harken back to the one of single-digit polygons. But it would be a wasted opportunity if they didn't weave in certain elements of nostalgia beyond the usual easter egg here and there. That said, just because there are comparisons to be made does not mean the experience will be what you've come to expect.

https://youtu.be/Fl2LhqrUTfM

Lastly, I didn't pledge to EQNext and have yet to do so for Pantheon, but may very well commit money towards it this year. I support most things first by spreading word and debating the uninitiated, feeding the trolls, and squeezing out a figurative dutch oven for those who make blanket statements.

[fadetree]

EQNext was really never anything. Pantheon at least has some alpha going on. I bought in to the Knight's package when i first heard about it.

[rekreant]

Not sure if trolling...probably, but just in case...

Where to begin? The classes I've read up on the most.

Dire Lords are looking to be quite the unconventional tank, absorbing the vitality of enemy by drenching their chainmail with its blood. There won't be any plate armor or shields for them to equip. Perhaps to compensate for this, the class comes with markedly better defenses against magical attacks than other tank classes. Yes, the concept/design could be described as a more fleshed out of version of Shadow Knights, but that would not be nearly descriptive enough. It is a hybrid of a hybrid, a class that will likely require its player to focus more on weapons and haste than armor sets, as their health will fluctuate too wildly in combat otherwise. Low AC targets (casters) would be ideal if that turns out to be the case. They also will be able to prevent mobs from being healed for a short duration. All of these features combined should solidify them as the most desired tank versus casters; in classic EQ, paladins handedly take that position. Further differentiating DLs from SKs, Pantheon gives them poleaxes with nuanced uses, dual wield, hate generation through aoe effect (which ties in with their lore), and the ability to hold aggro better than warriors and paladins in longer, drawn out fights. That last feature should make them solid off-tanks on raids; while everyone else is killing mob A, the DL is leeching mob B quite possibly with just the occasional patch heal while at the same time ensuring that aggro won't bounce around after the fact. Dire lords also will have the ability to tank a fraction of incoming damage of another player, giving them an additional role on raids (safeguarding an assigned caster) as well as extra desirability in experience groups. How many times do enchanters say "watch my pet rq gotta bio" before they afk and then the pet proceeds to hump them to death while the group scrambles to contain the hasted little pos?

Beginner paladins in Pantheon sound like they'll be more white/blue deck MTG than endgame paladins in EQ. They will be given a mirror image for cc/temporary off-tanking, among other spells/abilities which offer a lot more utility. There are no high elves in Terminus and of the elves that do exist, none can be holy knights. While extremely limiting in terms of roleplay, it is explained in the racial lore. Additionally, paladins will be vanquishers of the undead through built-in abilities, being constantly vigilant of and passively resistant to their presence; whereas in Norrath paladins could only pretend to be highly capable against the undead, half-believing it because of the lore, and a handful of quests, spells, and weapons.

Clerics will be able to cast a temporary wall, possibly allowing them to block off another group's train in dungeon settings. Also, iirc, there won't be a version of complete heal at all.

Druids will receive a more complex type of delayed heal that will make them desirable for "oh shit" moments when the cleric is tabbed out or busy building that wall.

Wizards will have familiars that draw mana from the surroundings and funnel it into their pool. In addition, wizards will also be able to blink ahead and lower resistances. Everything else is to be expected.

Summoners will be able to receive heals through their "secondary" pet's attacks, or they can choose to have the healing effect go towards their main pet. Both pet forms have potential to enhance one another depending on the elements at work. Summoners will also have greater control of their pets while benefitting from them through commands that won't give them the crowd control of an enchanter, but will provide them with a means of escape. Yes, it is essentially a magician, but the abilities are more evolved.

Monks will be even more resilient and self-reliant, having the ability to stun, slow enemy's cast, and cure poison/disease. They basically have a physical version of lesser paladin abilities along with hate management, likely meaning they will be capable off-tanks once again. Additionally, monks will have flying kick for nostalgia, but it comes with a knockback which opens up possibilities in PVE and PVP locations with long drops. Yes, they have mend and feign death; if they didn't, few people would want to play them. It's the monk class everyone knows, but with spiritual touch.

Gnomes are ghosts in the machine. The way a bottom crawler will select a shell, they have collectively fashioned together an appearance to obscure their condensed energy. If you're looking for an EQ-equivalent, they are more like futuristic clockworks than the pudgy, cave-dwelling curmudgeons. But even that is a poor description.

Halflings won't be hobbitses, but instead more wiry and mischievous looking, with a style similar to the Gorillaz. And the changeup is not merely superficial; their lore has nothing to do with the shire or precious jumjum stalks.

It could have been said that the skar were just iksars reskinned, but they have since undergone a makeover, appearing as unnatural beings that will likely have even worse faction issues than Kunark's lizards.

No dark elves. Instead, emo merfolk.

By the sounds of it, racial benefits won't be so powerful as to create situations where there's one clear choice per class and anything else will be looked down upon. Cut to EverQuest and the two most obvious choices are frontal stun immunity and innate regeneration.

And no, the gods of Terminus are not the gods of Norrath. Considering the title of the game, I would think that above all else would be where they make every effort to separate themselves from other MMORPGs, including EQ. Since it seems that you didn't read the lore, I will just recommend the
audiobook version (https://youtu.be/fh9Au9CrVpc) instead of making this post any more TLDR than it already appears to be.

Again, the lore is vastly different. It might draw from familiar material but it's turned on its head and switched around. Iirc Terminus giants are few and far between, being reclusive, survivors of time long since passed, and players will likely have to travel to remote locations if they are to find them. In Norrath, giants are only absent on the lesser continents and the majority of them are kill on sight / not directly involved with quests.

There are definite, undeniable similarities and aspects of the world that harken back to the one of single-digit polygons. But it would be a wasted opportunity if they didn't weave in certain elements of nostalgia beyond the usual easter egg here and there. That said, just because there are comparisons to be made does not mean the experience will be what you've come to expect.

https://youtu.be/Fl2LhqrUTfM

Lastly, I didn't pledge to EQNext and have yet to do so for Pantheon, but may very well commit money towards it this year. I support most things first by spreading word and debating the uninitiated, feeding the trolls, and squeezing out a figurative dutch oven for those who make blanket statements.


In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

[Champion_Standing]

You could get a 4 year degree, get married, have kids and they'll be in middle school before Pantheon comes out.

[fadetree]

@Rekreant
Yeah but you can say that about any game that is in the same genre. There's only so many tropes to use.

[Ennewi]

In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

Fair enough but then what's wrong with what has been proven to work in the past? The team over at PROTF hasn't promised the gaming community an innovative WoW killer. There's nothing new about games promising to be just that, so why bother falling into the same rut?

Afaik the devs haven't rejected the idea of Pantheon being the spiritual successor to EverQuest, meaning they aren't trying to reinvent the wheel and offer a 100% new experience. They're making a world they themselves want to be immersed in, one that could renew the genre or at least interest in it.

Innovative is asking and promising too much though, imo. Whenever I hear words like "innovative" or "cutting edge" I think of Avatar which promised to be all of that and then some, except the storyline had been used before and to greater effect. For all of the money it took in, that movie is now largely forgotten and not on anyone's top 10 list. The same will likely happen with Black Panther. What about cult classics though? And some of those barely got made at all because their budgets were almost nonexistent. But for all of their deviations from the norm, most cult classics weren't as innovative for their time as Kurosawa films, and the ones were copied a lot from his techniques.

Traditional races/classes with a twist? In a way. Amphibious dark elves. Cyborg gnomes. Plur raver halflings. In another thread, someone else more or less wrote that Karana was just Zeus with a twist. There is a certain amount of truth to that, but it ignores the finer details.

Ex.: Rather than the standard white knight, the paladin in PROTF is a priest who stepped away from worship, abandoned the faith partially, and traded in prayer beads for a sword. A twist? Okay but what isn't a twist?

Human males are essentially just females with a twist. Christianity is just Judaism with a twist. New Zealand is just Australia with a twist.

This is still ignoring other, more substantial features of PROTF like the progeny system and the in-depth faction-based system that amplifies player/nonplayer character interactions.

The lore? So much of fantasy is rooted in history and mythology, it's hard to name anything that has been innovative. LoTR? Game of Thrones is the War of the Roses with a twist. Historical figures Frankensteined together. Even the wall was inspired by a real world location. Bristlebane is the trickster god with a twist, a god who can be found in many forms and beliefs throughout history, particularly among native American tribes.

The same holds true with Pantheon. "Terminus" is the name of the Roman god of boundary markers and the word for a final point of space/time. But that's the nature of life and art, both imitating each other.

Trends exude a certain kind of artistic innovation but superficially, and as a result often don't age well, not that it matters since they're easily replaced.

The devs at Pantheon seem intent on bucking the trend, but aren't trying to innovate the way EQNext did. Their game also isn't trending the way EQNext had been which is good imo because, for all the many who played the classic trilogy, EverQuest wasn't exactly trendy; most people who gamed were casual and only played console.

But all of this is assuming that 80% of Pantheon's lore has been directly lifted from or inspired by EverQuest's. Maybe that's accurate but percentages also come from lying ass weathermen and unreliable election polls. One could just as easily argue that EverQuest is 80% DnD with a 20% twist. And humans share all of what, 98/99% DNA with chimpanzees? So, in a sense, we are just chimps with a twist. But look at the world of difference that little twist makes.

[Muggens]

You could get a 4 year degree, get married, have kids and they'll be in middle school before Pantheon comes out.

Some posters in here could even see their first rl naked woman IF focus shifted abit from pantheon

[Issar]

In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

This is true about every mmorpg in a true high fantasy setting, and they are all derived from D&D.

[Uuruk]

Im way more excited for p99 "green/recycle" server starting than I am for any new IP who is just trying to recreate the past with a new face. Everquest is great because it was innovative, not because its an mmo. WoW got big cause it dialed the innovation up to 11 and streamlined the experience so more people could enjoy it. Those are the opposite ends of the spectrum and most of the stuff in between is garbage lol.

Same, I heard green was coming right after discord

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Same, I heard green was coming right after discord

Discord is out but unfortunately the server seems to be down again :mad:

[rekreant]

This is true about every mmorpg in a true high fantasy setting, and they are all derived from D&D.
True, which was all derived from Tolkien. I feel a sufficient enough change with enough additional story helps to differentiate your setting from others. Norrath has a rich lore and good story even though it is based on common tropes, and above all I think it does not FEEL like it is just a copy. The only argument Im trying to make is that so far in Pantheon a lot is copy-pasted from EQ. Its still early in the game, and who knows how itll end up at release.




Same, I heard green was coming right after discord
I asked this question in a thread and got an official response; basically green will not happen until the entire code base is at a state that the devs would call complete and accurate to representing the classic live experience. So really were years off, just like with Pantheon lol.

[Swish2]

Server is only getting more popular, no patches in 2018.

"You think you do, but you don't..."

[Ennewi]

Some posters in here could even see their first rl naked woman IF focus shifted abit from pantheon

Women like good diction. Not all women, but the kind that aren't just enjoyable without their clothes on. Nice burn though.

[Muggens]

True, which was all derived from Tolkien.

JRR Tolkien was cool and all that but he did not invent fantasy

[rekreant]

JRR Tolkien was cool and all that but he did not invent fantasy

Who has written and sold more fantasy than Tolkien? He may not have invented it, but you have to admit he refined and perfected it.

[Jimjam]

Terry Prachet? Certainly wrote more.

I don't disagree that he was father of fantasy. That said, wasn't CS Lewis a friend of Tolkein and they'd exchange ideas and were writing at similar times.

Perhaps fantasy is often more a case of convergent evolution more than derivation.

How many times can you throw Norse/Greek/Christian mythology in a bag, shake it up and come up with something new?