Can you camp an entire zone? I said you can't, someone said he could

[Snaggles]

Tonight someone accused me of "stealing his camp" since I killed the first 5 guards in Grobb, they were just up sitting around.

I said he wasn't there when I arrived and assumed he had the ones near the bank. He said "I'm camping the entire zone and have them on a timer." I tried to explain that an entire zone isn't a camp but his feeling was if he was keepin up on spawns (which he wasn't ,but whatever) he could claim it.

I /tell'd him a type-out of the P99 Play Nice Policy and pointed him to # 8:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.


I ended up just leaving and playing another toon. Figured I'd ask for some feedback though in the event I just don't get it. That and I might point him here if we have another discussion on what is and is not a "camp".

I'm too damn old at this point to fight with people in video games. That said, EQ is all about righteous indignation and being "right" even if it means brooding about it later :).

What say you?

[Mead]

if you cannot reason with someone then /ignore

pretty simple

also if he wasn't holding down the mobs then obviously he either didn't have the ability to hold down all the mobs or was afk. either way it's the same result

[Swish2]

Crushbone/Blackburrow is included in this among other zones that some people try to take advantage of. If you encounter any high levels rounding up orcs/gnolls and mass killing them its zone disruption... get a petition in <3

[Hakubi]

Grobb/Oggok guards is contested and stressful with people waving their lawyer questing junk around. A good player can kill every guard except the high HP undercon ones or ones near bankers that are avoided. It's bad manners to come into a zone and start killing without asking for a camp check, try to communicate with him next time. Never know if he just inherited the camp and didn't have the timers or what.

[Swish2]

Grobb/Oggok guards is contested and stressful with people waving their lawyer questing junk around. A good player can kill every guard except the high HP undercon ones or ones near bankers that are avoided. It's bad manners to come into a zone and start killing without asking for a camp check, try to communicate with him next time. Never know if he just inherited the camp and didn't have the timers or what.

Or the person in there could share them like a decent human being.

[Wonkie]

uh the rule you quoted is about bards swarming

maybe join a group and play the good part of the game?

[area]

Crushbone/Blackburrow is included in this among other zones that some people try to take advantage of. If you encounter any high levels rounding up orcs/gnolls and mass killing them its zone disruption... get a petition in <3

You mean after talking to them asking them to leave some up, then them refusing. Right?

[Snaggles]

Thanks. yea it's more the annoyance of the person just picking the ones he wants and saying "the zone is camped" without listing the ones that are open. .

When I camp the bank area in Grobb with my chanter (41) I'm killing every guard. When I did this with my ranger or pally I'd be a bit more specific as to what's open and what isn't. He was leaving a ton up.

Again, not going to lose sleep over it. Just figured I'd ask to make sure I understood. I hate being the asshole, self improvement is good, etc.

uh the rule you quoted is about bards swarming

maybe join a group and play the good part of the game?


Thanks for the clarification. Yea not always enough time and energy to group after a long week of work. If I always needed a mic in my ear I'd be playing Call of Duty or something.

[elwing]

You have the right to ask them to free a camp if people have multiple camps, at their choice... If they don't, you have the right to report them as OP rules mentioned... Now they have the right to camp a whole zone, until someone ask to concede some...

[Snaggles]

You have the right to ask them to free a camp if people have multiple camps, at their choice... If they don't, you have the right to report them as OP rules mentioned... Now they have the right to camp a whole zone, until someone ask to concede some...

Thanks. What I always assumed and went that path. Asked if he wanted the bank and he said he had it all. Well, after accusing me of camp theft :).

I didn’t do a CC check since only 2 were in the zone and 5 guards were up (for at least 10 mins). I did a quick invis run and didn’t see the player around and they were anon. Could have been an AFK lowbie.

As an aside it’s all very clear now. Thanks for the input to all. I’ve read the policy multiple times and will be more diplomatic and educated in the future.

[elwing]

You don't have the right to pick a camp at your choice in that case, it's the guy having the camps choice mind you... You could probably be accused to ks if you do, through I don't think he would have much ground if he refuses to free a camp.. Also gm said that in outdoor zone a camp is 1mob if I am correct...

[Snaggles]

I was open to a discussion. He wasn’t. Said I would take whatever and he said “the whole zone is camped”.

I only mentioned him having the bank because I was killing the 6th front spawn in about 15 mins. Mind you these are 22 min respawns so he wasn’t exactly timing down to a science.

I’m far from a pushy player. The problem (as I see it) is he was clearing painfully slow...slow enough I didn’t realize he was killing guards. Or that he killed a few and went afk or someone else did and logged. I ran around invis looking for someone grinding and it was crickets from the zone to the bank. I’m new to the chanter game and at 41 usually kill six guards by the bank, Carver twice (6min timer), and gate back to the front before respawns.

If someone was at the front when I arrived I’d gladly open discussion and toss them buffs.

[Swish2]

If anyone here has ever done spectres in Feerott, you'll know that you cant just tie up all 7 if other people want a piece of the action. It's greedy, antisocial... and most importantly, it's against the rules to try and lock them all down when you aren't maintaining a physical presence at more than 1 spawn point at any time.

City guards are no different, you might get away with 2 stood next to each other but beyond that you need to be prepared to share. If you don't want to share play an offline game <3

[Hibbs]

If anyone here has ever done spectres in Feerott, you'll know that you cant just tie up all 7 if other people want a piece of the action. It's greedy, antisocial... and most importantly, it's against the rules to try and lock them all down when you aren't maintaining a physical presence at more than 1 spawn point at any time.

City guards are no different, you might get away with 2 stood next to each other but beyond that you need to be prepared to share. If you don't want to share play an offline game <3

I was going to say something earlier but was unaware of the actual ruling. Some people say if you can keep the mobs down then you control all you can keep down. Some people say if you are killing something and someone else shows up then per server rules you actually have to split mobs with that individual or party and are unable to just claim a mass majority of mobs.

I remember way back in the day I was at Royals in SolB with a Shaman. Iirc we were just behind the spawn but were keeping up with mobs for the most part. This monk came in and started attacking a kobald that was up. We tried to talk to him, but he didn't wanna hear it. Started trying to Lawyer us. We didn't wanna start trouble so we ended up giving him the king platform ( I think he wanted that monk spawn).

At the end of the day GM's would rather not get involved and would rather players sort out their disputes. Its no fun for anyone when they show up... unless they bring illusions then its kinda fun :) I need sleep.

[aaezil]

Since gms dont tell you what a camp is there is mass confusion and the rules are very poorly put together/spread in 10 years of old gm posts. I’m sorry they are so bad, hopefully they will change for the better and people dont have to make this same thread every week.

[Muggens]

It's like laying claim to a smoking hot piece of ass and only fucking her three days out of the week. Those other four days of the week other men and women have rights to claim that camp.

Lol what?

[loramin]

Since gms dont tell you what a camp is there is mass confusion and the rules are very poorly put together/spread in 10 years of old gm posts.

This. But getting back to the OP, the other guy was completely wrong in this situation. To lay it out for the umpteenth time, here are the unofficial camp rules (derived from numerous GM posts here in the forum):

Golden Rule:
1. Try to resolve it with the other player first: as far as the staff is concerned the best camps are ones players agree to, even if they aren't the official camps the GMs themselves would draw


Outdoor Rules (When Staff Get Involved)

2. Whoever is there first can camp whatever they want (the whole zone even!)

3. As soon as someone new shows up, the first player gets to pick exactly one spawn point to camp

4. The new person then gets to pick exactly one spawn point to camp

5. All remaining spawns are FTE (First to Engage): whoever agroes the mob first gets it


Indoor Rules (When Staff Get Involved); Same As Outdoor Except:

6. In an indoor zone the staff may, at their sole discretion, allow a player to camp multiple mobs at once; generally for this to happen all of the spawn points need to be within line of sight and close together.

6.5 The "at their sole discretion" part is key: the staff don't like being constrained by past rulings, and they also take player conduct into account, so just because a GM let's you hold a given camp at one point in time that doesn't mean you'll get to next time (eg. the first time the person contesting you may have been a dick to the GM, so the GM let you have the whole camp, but the next time the contesting person might be polite and so the GM makes you two share the camp).

Also, all of the above is for a soloing situation. The staff has never really clarified if the rules change for groups, but it doesn't seem like they even need to: by these rules a group of six, even if they're not at a staff-assigned camp, can hold six spawn points, and those six are usually enough to cover a camp (even if there's seven mobs, no one will contest the seventh-most-wanted mob).

and people dont have to make this same thread every week.

Whenever I see the same subject coming up over and over again in the forums I start thinking about a wiki page (eg. that's how the Per-Level and Treasure guides started: I saw lots of posts for "where should I get XP?" and "where can I earn plat?"). Given the high number of rules posts we've been seeing, the http://wiki.project1999.com/Rules and http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings pages are moving to the top of my "wiki to do list".

But I'm slow, and I'm currently stuck on the buff lines page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines), so if anyone is reading this and thinking "damn this is annoying, I wish there was something I could do", you can: dive into one of those pages!

Start a new page that has a list of differences between any of the two rules posts listed in the Rules page (and make sure it's linked on the Rules page so no one else tries comparing the same two pages), or use the forum search to look for posts made by staff members and add them to the Rulings page. The wiki needs you!

[TheSurgeon]

Lol what?

Don't bite off more than you can handle or someone else will pick up your slack.

[ScaringChildren]

Lol what?

You heard the man.

[Champion_Standing]

Don't be afraid to compete for mobs. He can't claim what he can't kill. People like that might bitch and moan about it but there's nothing he can do if you start locking down some of the spawns. There's a good chance he'll give up quickly and stick to what he knows he can get instead of risking leaving spawns up for you to take.

[Troxx]

It's like laying claim to a smoking hot piece of ass and only fucking her three days out of the week. Those other four days of the week other men and women have rights to claim that camp.

:confused:

Yeah that has nothing to do with not holding down all the spawns you're claiming.

PS: Has this happened to you in real life before and you settled for getting cucked 4 days out of the week?

[Muggens]

Don't bite off more than you can handle or someone else will pick up your slack.

Sounds like being a cuck to me.
I am deep down in smoking hot ass 24/7 tho

[TheSurgeon]

Sounds like being a cuck to me.
I am deep down in smoking hot ass 24/7 tho

And the chlamydia rampant in your neck of the woods.

[bluntfang]

You'll quickly learn that the majority of people on this server have severe forms of autism.

It's like laying claim to a smoking hot piece of ass and only fucking her three days out of the week. Those other four days of the week other men and women have rights to claim that camp.


calls everyone autistic, proceeds to say the most autist thing possible.

[TheSurgeon]

calls everyone autistic, proceeds to say the most autist thing possible.

This downey read the word "majority" and translated it to everyone, then goes on to say the weakest rebuttal I've yet to read here, which is impressive.

Next time you might muster up enough gumption and wit. Today wasn't that day.

[Axlrose]

The Eve Online player in me feels if one person is being unreasonable, then each player should /duel with the loser conceding the camp.

[TheSurgeon]

The Eve Online player in me feels if one person is being unreasonable, then each player should /duel with the loser conceding the camp.

Something similar to this happened to me on live.

I was alone on the two elites nestled in the corner up from the plank in Blackburrow, and I had been camping them for hours. Then these two elf broads traipse up the plank, steal a kill, and I begin to tell them not to take my kills.

"You hadn't engaged the mob."
"That doesn't matter."
"Are you crazy? It's been up for more than 15 seconds."

If anyone was curious if lawyer questing was a thing in April 1999, I'm here to tell you it was. More words were said, I ended the chat with a satisfactory "cunts" and moved to a new area to hunt. There was no way I could out DPS them and take the mobs.

A few minutes pass. A warrior in shinning armor approaches. The EverQuest White Knight, a full generation before that term would be slung around forums, walked up to me. "Duel Me!"
"Excuse me?"
"You don't get to say such things to my girlfriend. Duel Me!"
"Yea, if you don't duel him we will report you!"

For fifteen minutes this LARPing sallow skinned nerd attempted to goad me into a duel to defend the honor. There was some definite role play that even with imagination cannot compare to the nonsense this fuck was dolling out. EverQuest has always attracted a sad sort.

[Dreenk317]

wish we could train guard slayers

i hate seeing my brethren slaughtered and i should have the right to defend my home town

Best, and prolly only truthful post I've read out of lulz. I totally agree, allow us to defend our homes!!

[Muggens]

wish we could train guard slayers

i hate seeing my brethren slaughtered and i should have the right to defend my home town

[GnomeCaptain]

You can camp a small zone.

I as well as others commonly camp all of Oggok's bouncers.

Is normal there, and (nearly) everyone respects each other.

[loramin]

You can camp a small zone.

I as well as others commonly camp all of Oggok's bouncers.

Is normal there, and (nearly) everyone respects each other.

By the rules of polite players everywhere, yes, you can camp a small zone like Oggok.

But by the rules of this server, you can't. Depending on your point of view you can either see that as the "lowest common denominator rules lawyer" rules, or as the "let the most people share scarce resources" rules, but either way they make it very clear that if someone else wants to share mobs with you, you have to.

If you're camping all of Oggok and Bob shows up and wants to kill ogres also, you get one spawn point, Bob gets a second spawn point, and you race (FTE) for the rest. The only caveat there is that a GM could decide that X number of mobs count as a single camp, and that you can kill all of those without any fear of Bob ... but otherwise it's share and share alike (anything except the two spawn points you pick).

[Snaggles]

I’ve said this a few times but if the player was killing ALL the guards (entirely possible for a 50’ish chanter and some other classes) or even MOST of them I wouldn’t have even bothered. I have plenty of alts and can respect someone in an xp rampage.

1. Razbaz, Sutok, and the 3 static lower cons were up near Innothule Swamp, all blue to me. Bibeka and Kumec spawned after I killed those other 5. On the bank end, Carver, Scintok, and the two statics by the sham guild were up.

2. The player was nowhere in sight (I looked) let alone actively clearing. I could have done a CC heck in /occ (which I will next time) but since it took him 15 mins to realize 6 guards were dead he was clearly afk rather than the alleged “timing them”.

3. Our intro was receiving his /tell saying “stop stealing my camp” and then proceeding to explain the entire zone was his camp. Debatable logic per the rules and especially with most the guards just kickin it.

This player was either lazy or just shitty at killing guards. That’s the crux of my frustration.

[Wonkie]

are trolls good exp? good loot?

[Zipity]

Wonder what would happen if I tried to claim all the guards in HHK...

[aaezil]

You can camp a small zone.

I as well as others commonly camp all of Oggok's bouncers.

Is normal there, and (nearly) everyone respects each other.

Sounds like you need to read the (admittedly bad) server rules there bud

[Baylan295]

are trolls good exp? good loot?

They’re mediocre XP but worth 11 plat per kill and an enchanter in troll form is non-kos to most things and can vendor and bank in zone.

[fastboy21]

are trolls good exp? good loot?

Only the ones over in the RnF channel...you should kill the shit out of those trolls.

[loramin]

are trolls good exp? good loot?

I did several levels of them with Loramin and loved it. Good drops, astonished looks from newbie troll players, and pretty good XP.

[bluntfang]

there are so many things to do in this game, if there's a jerk trying to camp the whole spawn and is raging at you about taking his kills you should ask yourself if that's how you want to spend your day and move on to something else.

[mattydef]

Shrug

[mickmoranis]

I recommend rolling a level 1, and pulling guild leaders to area's he is pulling from, while he's pulling. With a separate account a VPN and maybe your girlfriends computer for added invincibility.

[ineubis]

I wonder if I encountered the same player as OP as well. I simply zoned into Ogguk to bank (where my halfling is 'ally' thanks to BreadQuest) and as soon as person saw me I got (can't recall if a /tell, or an /ooc) a message indicating "I am camping guards BTW"... assuming I was encroaching on their camp.

[Fryhole]

If you can't keep up with the respawn rate within a reasonable time frame, you shouldn't be claiming the mobs.

[stebbins99]

Pretty sure I've encountered this (selfish / unreasonable) person in Oggok as well. When I experienced this, the guards at the tower had all been fully spawned for 5+ minutes and the "camper" was nowhere in sight. I was on the last guard (of the five) when he elected to go ahead and poach it.

Please people, stand your ground with this Oggok fellow! If he's "camping the whole zone" and refusing to share, he better be able to stay on top of spawns. I'm going to run fraps if I ever run into him again (be forewarned, the tells he sends are just as egregious as the activity)

[bigjeff100]

Tonight someone accused me of "stealing his camp" since I killed the first 5 guards in Grobb, they were just up sitting around.

I said he wasn't there when I arrived and assumed he had the ones near the bank. He said "I'm camping the entire zone and have them on a timer." I tried to explain that an entire zone isn't a camp but his feeling was if he was keepin up on spawns (which he wasn't ,but whatever) he could claim it.

I /tell'd him a type-out of the P99 Play Nice Policy and pointed him to # 8:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.


I ended up just leaving and playing another toon. Figured I'd ask for some feedback though in the event I just don't get it. That and I might point him here if we have another discussion on what is and is not a "camp".

I'm too damn old at this point to fight with people in video games. That said, EQ is all about righteous indignation and being "right" even if it means brooding about it later :).

What say you?

I think you did the right thing in the end, just move on. I know it sucks, and you often walk away feeling like the bad guy won, which he did. But it's better than wasting your day arguing with the man child... I applaud your decision to just move on, won't be the last time you have to make that decision i'm sure. But know you made the right one :)

[TheSurgeon]

Pretty sure I've encountered this (selfish / unreasonable) person in Oggok as well. When I experienced this, the guards at the tower had all been fully spawned for 5+ minutes and the "camper" was nowhere in sight. I was on the last guard (of the five) when he elected to go ahead and poach it.

Please people, stand your ground with this Oggok fellow! If he's "camping the whole zone" and refusing to share, he better be able to stay on top of spawns. I'm going to run fraps if I ever run into him again (be forewarned, the tells he sends are just as egregious as the activity)

Starting FRAPS should be the first thing any and everyone does before loading up P99.

[loramin]

If he's "camping the whole zone" and refusing to share, he better be able to stay on top of spawns.

It doesn't matter whether he's staying on top of the spawns or not, he can't "camp the whole zone."

The server rules are clear: Oggok man-child (who has mysteriously avoided being named/shamed) can camp the whole zone until you show up. The moment you do, he gets to claim one spawn point. Maybe if there is a logical grouping of spawn points that are all close together and in line of sight, a GM might let him camp all of them.

But after he picks that one spawn/camp, you get to do the same, and then every other mob in the zone becomes free-for-all, and whoever agroes them first gets them. This has nothing whatsoever to do with how many mobs the guy was holding down before. In fact, if you're really lucky, he will race to greedily claim as many mobs as he can once the free-for-all starts ... and then get himself killed in the process.

Now of course if you're dealing with a normal/polite player who is keeping all the spawns down, the correct/nice thing to do is let them keep all those spawns and move on to somewhere else instead of you both getting half of what you want. But if someone is being a dick, you absolutely should feel free to use your knowledge of the rules to force them to share, and if they don't you absolutely should petition them (ideally with fraps, but even without them the staff have other ways to see how the both of you have been behaving).