AskEQ! What item(s), gear, or weapon(s) do you feel are overpriced in today's market?

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

For this edition of AskEQ! (not really a thing, but humor me), i've decided to seek the communities opinion on what items, gear or weapons in Norrath YOU deem overpriced.

After spending some time recently in the EC Tunnels i've noticed that for whatever explicable reason(s), some prices (and in my most humble of opinions) just do not add up. Our market has been around for some time, has had various fluctuations, supply has changed, demand has changed, and prices have changed too. Some for better, some for worse.

What item(s) for sale have you most recently believed to be overpriced and why?

[White_knight]

Pre-nerf CoS because theres probably 10,000 of them on the server - ec fat cats have seriously ramped the price up on it.

(In before BiS)

[White_knight]

Pre-nerf Alliance neck - costs like 90pp to recharge as I understand - that nets you 4 clicks.

Why spend 30k on an item you use very minimally for somr quest faction bumping and for crossing SG.

[elwing]

Tantor's tusk

[Premaximum]

This is a personal one for me because I watched it go from a 3-4k item to an 8-10k item SOLELY because of people like Boutik buying every one that came through EC and then reselling them.

Staff of Undead Legions. It has been 3-4k for literally years at this point. It's always been used for the same thing: A pet weapon. It still drops, it still drops just as frequently. But because Boutik has enough money to literally manipulate the market by himself, it's now 8-10k. Just look at the wiki entry for it. The whole seller history is Boutik and a couple other people selling it cheaper than Boutik. The all-time average is 4k, because this has only happened in the last two months or so.

Several other items have met the same fate, as well. I only bring up Staff because I spent a month trying to purchase it with Boutik on ignore, and multiple times I messaged someone who had it for 4k but Boutik had already bought it and doubled its price.

[aaezil]

Well every item boutik sells is way overpriced. People need to just stop buying from him and he would go away

[Quizlop]

Edge of the Nightwalker

4-5x the price of weapons with comparable or slightly better ratios.

[TripleLegit]

Edge of the Nightwalker

4-5x the price of weapons with comparable or slightly better ratios.

This.

14k really? Winters Fury is slightly higher better ratio for 4k, Exquisite Velium Warsword is better ratio for 6k. EoTN super over rated and high priced.

[Premaximum]

Edge of the Nightwalker

4-5x the price of weapons with comparable or slightly better ratios.

Especially when compared to Winters Fury, Edge is ridiculous you're right.

[Oleris]

Haste belts in general. SCHW is 1k now. I would not pay 30x the price for the SG belt that is chain farmed now.

[Evia]

Especially when compared to Winters Fury, Edge is ridiculous you're right.


Goes to show how our community values fashion. Winter's Fury looks like a rusty short sword and the Edge of the Nightwalker has that sweet katana look going for it. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense so fashion is the only thing I can think of impacting value.

[enjchanter]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful
Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

[bigjeff100]

I feel like many of those velium weapons are overpriced.. First off, I'm super confused by the amount of them...

Exquisite
Primal
Massive
Folded
Heavy
Light
Etched
Crafted
Priceless
Honed
Hardened
Tempered

Ahhhhhhh my brain!

[TripleLegit]

Goes to show how our community values fashion. Winter's Fury looks like a rusty short sword and the Edge of the Nightwalker has that sweet katana look going for it. I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense so fashion is the only thing I can think of impacting value.

Yeah Winters Fury is a dreadful graphic. Exquisite Velium Warsword much better looking, and better ratio hands down. 6k

[Premaximum]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful

I absolutely disagree. ZHeart on my enchanter has been the best item I've ever bid on. It's the only droppable item with a regen effect for casters, and it drops off a relatively difficult raid mob. If Fungi only dropped off Zlandicar, it would be worth 145k+ as well.

[bigjeff100]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful
Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

Hahahaha oh man.. Maple Leaf Mask.. That's gotta be the winner...

[TripleLegit]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful
Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

I MIGHT pay 3k for it, decent stamina and wis, some resists. I'd pay 3k. Definitely not 50-90k never in a million years

[Teppler]

There's someone specifically trying to push up the price of prenerf CoS over the past 2 weeks or so. I'm not gonna rat him out by name though. He's definitely doing it and not that secretive about it.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

I agree on a lot of these points. Especially the EotN. Never made much sense to me, I always used the same logic of winter's fury being better ratio and worth what like 12 - 14k less.

I will also say however that winter's fury's graphic does not match up to its name. I remember the "hell yah" feeling of buying one of these for the first time and then equipping it and feeling "uhh... what?" Womp womp womp..

I do feel also that a lot of the see invisibility items are way overpriced as well: Fingerbone hoop, faceguard of bentos...

Also Eyepatch of Shadows, is ultravision really worth its weight in (platinum)?

Necklace of superiority, especially considering it is completely irrelevant if you're in a guild halfway decent enough to kill + 4/5/6 dragons.

Cloak of flames i wouldnt say is exactly overpriced, but the price doesnt make much sense to me considering its value compared to CoCW, 50 hp shouldnt equate to 20,000 plat.

Some of the velious dragon armor that takes huge leaps in value if it goes from heavy to peerless or peerless to matchless for minimal stat increases.

Good responses here people. Good shtuff.

[Bardp1999]

Any of the droppable loot from Raid targets have pretty retarded price tags associated with them. Mithril Guantlets are like 125k? Ring of Lightning 100k? Zlandicar Heart 160k? Get real

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

I feel like many of those velium weapons are overpriced.. First off, I'm super confused by the amount of them...

Exquisite
Primal
Massive
Folded
Heavy
Light
Etched
Crafted
Priceless
Honed
Hardened
Tempered

Ahhhhhhh my brain!

yah, especially those "priceless" velium weapons, they dont even have a price tag!

[bigjeff100]

yah, especially those "priceless" velium weapons, they dont even have a price tag!

The Nerve!!!!

[Bardp1999]

Also, why is AoN like 400k still?

[mefdinkins]

Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

i would pay like 5k maaybe? 10k maybe? i dunno.

I thought BCG would drop significantly in price with all the other belt options in velious but it's still getting a decent asking price.

I think some of the SS MQs' sell for wayyyyyyyyy more than they're worth. You can get a Thurg version for like 500 plat to 10k max that a ton of classes/people can solo/duo or you can spend 20 times that for like +2stam, +4 hp and +2 MR on the skyshrine versions. these are also items/pieces that are farmed multiple days a week and pretty much any guild has the capacity to farm.

edit - i have a lot of alts and always end up cheaping out on upgrades to fund my next char rather than really pushing for BIS or droppable expensive items that may not have a true impact??

[Mblake81]

Also Eyepatch of Shadows, is ultravision really worth its weight in (platinum)?

If the client worked correctly? yes.

On p99? no, infravision/heat/serpent sight is fine.

[TripleLegit]

Also, why is AoN like 400k still?

I don’t think it is, think it goes for like 240-260k now if I’m not mistaken

[indiscriminate_hater]

ITT: plebs

[enjchanter]

I absolutely disagree. ZHeart on my enchanter has been the best item I've ever bid on. It's the only droppable item with a regen effect for casters, and it drops off a relatively difficult raid mob. If Fungi only dropped off Zlandicar, it would be worth 145k+ as well.

I'm gunna go back on my statement a bit.
Do I think it's useful on an enchanter who doesnt have a ring 10 ? Yessir
Do I think it's a supposedly BIS necro weapon ? No , I think the regen is overrated.

If I was to pick the price I think a zheart is worth, I would say 45-50k, same as fungi in essence.

[Bardp1999]

Well...I mean its a purchasable weapon that I would put on the same level as VP staff and Epic....Doesn't Slime Blood of Cazic Thule still sell for like 200k alone?

[Plowyabeastlord]

Quit buying/selling to boutik. Problem solved.

Sincerely
Fleamarkit

Ps. I’ve had enough of that incomplete sentencing making fool. Y’all won’t see me in tunnel for a bit after this weekend.

[Premaximum]

I'm gunna go back on my statement a bit.
Do I think it's useful on an enchanter who doesnt have a ring 10 ? Yessir
Do I think it's a supposedly BIS necro weapon ? No , I think the regen is overrated.

If I was to pick the price I think a zheart is worth, I would say 45-50k, same as fungi in essence.

I'd agree with that price if it wasn't so difficult to get. Only a few guilds on the server can realistically kill Zlandicar. It does drop every single time, which helps. I think it's definitely a great item for a Necromancer, but less of a must-buy for them than for an Enchanter imo. Necromancers at least have other ways of getting health back. For Enchanters it's ZHeart or Ring 10...and Ring 10 is pretty fucking hard to get.

[beargryllz]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful
Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

Gonna have to disagree on Zheart here

It's probably underpriced for what it can do for you

Very few items are as impactful as Zheart

[Tethler]

Any item I want but can't afford is overpriced, obviously.

[dcrag]

Considering Fungi king is never not camped, I can't figure out how the price has been frozen for years. It's been solo'd by nearly every class, and duo'd by almost anyone and isn't exactly rare.

[Oleris]

Considering Fungi king is never not camped, I can't figure out how the price has been frozen for years. It's been solo'd by nearly every class, and duo'd by almost anyone and isn't exactly rare.

4,446 total tunics as of 01/04/2019. Lot's of demand for the 4,446 that exist.

[Nikkanu]

4,446 total tunics as of 01/04/2019. Lot's of demand for the 4,446 that exist.

Neat, where do you get that data from?

[Oleris]

Neat, where do you get that data from?

From the Pantheon p1999 discord. IDK how many active accounts there are, but Fungi is probably one of the most sought after items for any new toon. I personally would never sell the three I have.

https://i.imgur.com/XmK2K4r.png

[Nikkanu]

I vote for all the droppables on my chars in my signature, as well as my 41 Enchanter with Puppet Strings, Mana Robe, BCG, Zlandicar's Heart, Elder Beads, White Dragonscale Boots, as well as my 52 Druid naggy bot with Fungi Tunic and Manastone that aren't on my signature. Also WTB Robe of the Spring, PM me plskthx.

[Nikkanu]

From the Pantheon p1999 discord. IDK how many active accounts there are, but Fungi is probably one of the most sought after items for any new toon. I personally would never sell the three I have.

https://i.imgur.com/XmK2K4r.png

Neat. I've been wondering how many Vulak robes are on the server these days.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sal%60Varae%60s_Robe_of_Darkness

[Nikkanu]

speaking of overpriced items... I hear Bioluminescent orb is going for upwards of 250k+. That's the one item I never understood the value hike on. I got one for less than 40k a couple years ago to play around with on my monk. No idea why they are worth so much now.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Bioluminescent_Orb

[Raev]

The bio orb is fantastic for warriors; you cast it on incoming and as long as your monk team isn't full of morons you get a free instant proc. All of that 'WAIT FOR ASSIST' nonsense goes out the window. Procs and clicks really should be capped at 400 hate here (early Velious patch) which would be a huge balance change for Knights who have seen their role totally usurped by blinding Warriors.

It's also amazing for Monks because it is our equivalent of 'dark and park': just fire the orb and a reasonable time one of the mobs will randomly run towards you. It's better on TAKP where spells land more easily and NPCs don't attack pets or eyes, but it's still pretty situationally good here.

Zheart is hugely overrated IMO. Both the epic and soul well staff will save you far more mana. It's more of a convenience item that lets you go AFK with Lich on without dying for 20 minutes (assuming you rolled Iksar).

Agree with Eberron that the maple leaf mask is the worst. I just bought greater regeneration potions. 50K for a maple leaf mask is 500 charges. Usually I can get away with Bedlam and the potions work indoors. A Ring 10 would be ideal of course.

[polishanarchy]

I still think Wavecrasher is overpriced

[Nikkanu]

The bio orb is fantastic for warriors; you cast it on incoming and as long as your monk team isn't full of morons you get a free instant proc. All of that 'WAIT FOR ASSIST' nonsense goes out the window. Procs and clicks really should be capped at 400 hate here (early Velious patch) which would be a huge balance change for Knights who have seen their role totally usurped by blinding Warriors.

It's also amazing for Monks because it is our equivalent of 'dark and park': just fire the orb and a reasonable time one of the mobs will randomly run towards you. It's better on TAKP where spells land more easily and NPCs don't attack pets or eyes, but it's still pretty situationally good here.

Oh, I get the utility, which is why I bought one a long time ago for a char I rarely ever play. I just don't get the sudden huge jump in price. Must just be more people realizing how kick ass of an item is for splitting and aggro.

Zheart is hugely overrated IMO. Both the epic and soul well staff will save you far more mana. It's more of a convenience item that lets you go AFK with Lich on without dying for 20 minutes (assuming you rolled Iksar).

I have epic, VP staff, and Z's heart on my Iksar necro. Epic is basically just a status symbol. Soulwell staff I swap in rarely when I need a free lifetap. Z's heart stays equipped 99.9% of the time to help (slightly) negate HP loss from lich.

Agree with Eberron that the maple leaf mask is the worst. I just bought greater regeneration potions. 50K for a maple leaf mask is 500 charges. Usually I can get away with Bedlam and the potions work indoors. A Ring 10 would be ideal of course.

I agree. Totally don't see why anyone would want this. I could have bought one for 35k for my baby enchanter that has everything else and saw no reason to.

[Nikkanu]

I still think Wavecrasher is overpriced

What?! No way. Awesome aggro proc at level 1! Viable until ToV or VP weapons. Totally badass for the small cost these go for.

[Cen]

Jboots, Zheart, Necklace of Superiority, Torpor I understand why its in demand due to population skew, Circlet of Shadows is some kind of prank, Way too many fungi's for its current price and ease to obtain.

Oh shit, never mind all that.
Shining Metallic Robes. That's my answer.

[Asteria]

The one time I managed to save up 11K plat was the most epic moment of my life!!

I humbly believe that epic weapon MQs are the most overpriced and the reason why so many end up quitting after FINALLY winning the game with the EPIC achievement of 10K+ in their player's hot hand or bank! To save up 10k, then realize you cannot EVEN buy some epic MQs or worse yet, you can! And then you know how have NOWHERE near enough epic plat savings to afford your epic weapon!

Soo epic weapons are defo the most overpriced equipment I've EVER seen for sale in EC. :(:eek::(:eek::(

[Tethler]

Oh shit, never mind all that.
Shining Metallic Robes. That's my answer.

I have a suspicion that this is due to the turnin for rogue epic taking them out of circulation and lguk not being camped as much as it used to be. What are they, like 1k? You can get bonecaster robe for the same or cheaper, so bnobody is buying SMR to wear.

[enjchanter]

Nikkanu I think I actually remember convincing you not to buy that mask in a thread lol.

[feniin]

Jboots, Zheart, Necklace of Superiority, Torpor I understand why its in demand due to population skew, Circlet of Shadows is some kind of prank, Way too many fungi's for its current price and ease to obtain.

Oh shit, never mind all that.
Shining Metallic Robes. That's my answer.

Torp basically enables Shamans to solo/duo for infinite plat easier than anything else in the game.


There's not even enough Fungis on the server for all the Kittens.

[Teppler]

Chanter PoM Robe

compared to SS robe you get 30 less HP, 8 more charisma, 10 more AC, 4 less resist and no Rune 4 clicky.

Enchanter SS robe will cost you 50-60k
Enchanter PoM will cost you close to 125k

[kjs86z]

Chanter PoM Robe

compared to SS robe you get 30 less HP, 8 more charisma, 10 more AC, 4 less resist and no Rune 4 clicky.

Enchanter SS robe will cost you 50-60k
Enchanter PoM will cost you close to 125k

Fashion.

[Zabbix]

Fashion and everyone but High elves actually need that cha which allows you to equip items that give more than a measly 30 hp. Get good.

[Teppler]

Fashion and everyone but High elves actually need that cha which allows you to equip items that give more than a measly 30 hp. Get good.

Is this really true? If you have the money to spend on something like PoM I feel a chanter is maxing out their cha without needing the robe and by that point you might even value the extra HP.

[Baylan295]

Is this really true? If you have the money to spend on something like PoM I feel a chanter is maxing out their cha without needing the robe and by that point you might even value the extra HP.

I have a PoG robe on my Enc (so same CHA/INT as a SS, but a few less HP), and I plan on getting a PoM robe someday. I have some good gear, but nothing too crazy (R9, Garz Ring, Shroud of Veeshan, Draco bracer... everything else is a SS or otherwise purchasable or farmable drop).

I want the PoM robe because it's frees up another slot to maximize HP/Mana. I'm currently at 250 self-buffed cha (254 if I use CHA food). The pure stats on it are better, even with the loss of the HP, IMO, because the stat density allows for other gear options elsewhere.

There are simply not many high CHA items in the game. Those that are 10+ CHA are normally pretty difficult to get (Zlexak Orb, EoN, Vulak Arms, Epic). That 8 extra CHA is pretty meaningful for my toon.

[snyder43]

and no Rune 4 clicky...

While I agree that the 60-70k you would save by buying an SS robe instead of a PoM robe could be better spent elsewhere (in most cases)...

I have used my Rune IV clicky exactly 0 times. If I had gotten the robe at level 5, it would have been extremely useful, but once you get Rune V it's completely useless.

With the 60-70k you save, you could get at least two of the following to help make up for the lower CHA on the SS Robe: Cloak of Confusion (+15 CHA, 55k), Neriad Shawl LR (+25 CHA, 10k), Tranix Crown (+15 CHA, 8k), Trinket MQ (+8 CHA, 6k).

[Izmael]

There's no such thing as overpriced. There are asked prices, offered prices, and market history (when ask and offer meet).

If I auction a Fungi for 1 million pp in EC tomorrow, it will not make that item overpriced, it will just not net me any buyers.

The right price is when offer meets demand, and that means that this is the right price for that particular item, at that particular time (bonus points if you just said "catch 22").

[Champion_Standing]

Bone Chips

[Chapelle]

Earth Staff

- Salty Mage

[Legday]

There's no such thing as overpriced. There are asked prices, offered prices, and market history (when ask and offer meet).

If I auction a Fungi for 1 million pp in EC tomorrow, it will not make that item overpriced, it will just not net me any buyers.

The right price is when offer meets demand, and that means that this is the right price for that particular item, at that particular time (bonus points if you just said "catch 22").

In a more sophisticated market this is correct, however in the p99 market you can take an item like a pre-nerf CoS and do what Boutik does. He is buying them and marking them up. Since there no reasonable replacement item (you couldn't do this with most haste items because of cheap alternatives like SCHW) he can do this continuously and people will continue to pay up for them because that is just the way the market appears to be moving. Again, its a useful item with no similar replacement, and high end players need it.

On top of that, other legitimate sellers are going to see the items changing hands at a higher value than they thought they could sell one. What do you think they're going to do? Sell it cheaper because like vigilante economic justice warriors? Nope - they're gonna get that pp because the market actually is there to buy at those levels.

At some point they will definitely top out. That might be now (25-30k) or it could keep going a little. Nobody is going to pay 100k for a pre-nerf CoS, but make no mistake, if re-sellers didn't do this to the CoS it would still be 1/3 of the price. These are guys who are capitalizing on ppl not wanting to sit in the tunnel. They have tons of time and know what they are doing. The rest of the market will just tag along.

Personally I think its equal parts brilliant and pathetic.

[Cen]

Robe of the ishva. 500pp but the green serpent robe is better.. But fashionquest :)

[Teppler]

I'm gunna go back on my statement a bit.
Do I think it's useful on an enchanter who doesnt have a ring 10 ? Yessir
Do I think it's a supposedly BIS necro weapon ? No , I think the regen is overrated.

If I was to pick the price I think a zheart is worth, I would say 45-50k, same as fungi in essence.

Fungi is only worth as much as it is because it's farmed non stop.

If it were half as rare as zheart it'd be worth 200k. And fairly.

Fungi is probably one of the cheapest items for its effect and how useful it is. There's almost always no better buy if you have the cash for it.

[TripleLegit]

Fungi is only worth as much as it is because it's farmed non stop.

If it were half as rare as zheart it'd be worth 200k. And fairly.

Fungi is probably one of the cheapest items for its effect and how useful it is. There's almost always no better buy if you have the cash for it.

A+

[MrHooker]

Earth Staff for mage epic. 500k+ for just one part of the mage epic. Unless your a high end guild with trackers checking 24/7 forget about it. Even then certain guilds camp out hit squads against server rules and take magi out before you can even get to him. Still need just the earth staff. 3+ years now. Guess I'm a salty Mage too.....

Azyke/Striider

[kaluppo]

For this edition of AskEQ! (not really a thing, but humor me), i've decided to seek the communities opinion on what items, gear or weapons in Norrath YOU deem overpriced.

After spending some time recently in the EC Tunnels i've noticed that for whatever explicable reason(s), some prices (and in my most humble of opinions) just do not add up. Our market has been around for some time, has had various fluctuations, supply has changed, demand has changed, and prices have changed too. Some for better, some for worse.

What item(s) for sale have you most recently believed to be overpriced and why?

The only thing off the top of my head is the woodsman staff. I was using search here to see what a good ranger weapon would be and I found a ton of threads talking about how a woodsman staff was the best bang for the buck weapon a ranger can get at only 100-200 PP.

Then I go to EC tunnel and see they are selling for 4K PP. YIKES, those threads were a bit outdated I guess. It doesn't even have any stats and is 2H blunt so it prevents you from having stats in your secondary slot. No thanks.

Oh and the spell nature walkers behest selling for 500pp LOL. It's a worthless druid pet! For 50 pp I might buy it just for fun but 500? I don't think so! Homey don't play dat!

[snyder43]

Oh and the spell nature walkers behest selling for 500pp LOL. It's a worthless druid pet!

This spell is far from useless. While the pet is a super low level and not good for combat, you can easily use it to pet track raid targets, which is what I use it for mostly now. However, when I was quadding I would frequently cast my pet, park it in a safe area, and use it as a mana battery by having a mage focus item with the ability to instant click "Reclaim Energy."

[Pringles]

The only thing off the top of my head is the woodsman staff. I was using search here to see what a good ranger weapon would be and I found a ton of threads talking about how a woodsman staff was the best bang for the buck weapon a ranger can get at only 100-200 PP.

Then I go to EC tunnel and see they are selling for 4K PP. YIKES, those threads were a bit outdated I guess. It doesn't even have any stats and is 2H blunt so it prevents you from having stats in your secondary slot. No thanks.

Oh and the spell nature walkers behest selling for 500pp LOL. It's a worthless druid pet! For 50 pp I might buy it just for fun but 500? I don't think so! Homey don't play dat!

Both of those things are super useful and not overpriced at all. Hard to imagine someone fucking up this thread but here we are.

[kaluppo]

This spell is far from useless. While the pet is a super low level and not good for combat, you can easily use it to pet track raid targets, which is what I use it for mostly now. However, when I was quadding I would frequently cast my pet, park it in a safe area, and use it as a mana battery by having a mage focus item with the ability to instant click "Reclaim Energy."

I still wouldn't buy it even for pet tracking. Just get a ranger to track raid mobs and call him a pet. Won't cost 500 PP lol

[Bardp1999]

FD + Instant Invis doesn't work like it used to, in the past it was basically an agro wipe and it isn't anymore. The value of instant invis is trivial at best. Its literally the difference between Travelers Boots and Journeymans Boots....However 90% of the server probably doesn't even know what travelers boots are and J boots still sell for 7k.

Add to it that both SK and Necro can CAST invis and have options of other invis clickies (blood ember bracer for example)... Its amusing to see the value rising.

The only reason this is flying at all is because necros literally dont need gear so have almost nothing to spend money on.

[kaluppo]

Both of those things are super useful and not overpriced at all. Hard to imagine someone fucking up this thread but here we are.

I wouldn't consider either super useful. Woodsman staff has great damage/delay which is why I was excited when I thought I could get it for 200PP. But at 4K it's over priced. Why do I think that?

Natures wrath is 100 PP.

29/44 +4 wis +20 mana with effect: natures wrath.

Not as good as 31/35 but its not bad at all and the stats are nice to have along with the effect you can start using at lvl 46. Now factor in the price difference and there you go.

So don't get so touchy because my option doesn't exactly match yours. It's ok to disagree.

[Pringles]

Maybe compare it to something that isn't complete garbage.

Like
http://wiki.project1999.com/Wrapped_Velium_Brawl_Stick

3k for a worse weapon? Hm

[Qtip]

I wouldn't consider either super useful. Woodsman staff has great damage/delay which is why I was excited when I thought I could get it for 200PP. But at 4K it's over priced. Why do I think that?

Natures wrath is 100 PP.

29/44 +4 wis +20 mana with effect: natures wrath.

Not as good as 31/35 but its not bad at all and the stats are nice to have along with the effect you can start using at lvl 46. Now factor in the price difference and there you go.

So don't get so touchy because my option doesn't exactly match yours. It's ok to disagree.

Woodsman staff dps wise is just below the ranger epic... For 4k...

[kaluppo]

Maybe compare it to something that isn't complete garbage.

Like
http://wiki.project1999.com/Wrapped_Velium_Brawl_Stick

3k for a worse weapon? Hm

One man's garbage is another mans treasure. I would pay 1K maybe 1.5K for that.

But at only 100 PP I still say this is the best bang for the buck if your a poor Ranger.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Nature%27s_Wrath

[kaluppo]

Woodsman staff dps wise is just below the ranger epic... For 4k...

I read that too in those threads. I just wonder why it was 100-200 PP for so long and then jumped to 4K. I grouped with a lot of rangers in MM, CoM and KC. Almost all of them were sporting two swords that were not epics. Now maybe it's just a fashion thing. 2 swords does look cooler then a big stick for sure.

[Nagoya]

the staff of the wood man dude come on. just an excellent weapon, stable price and very affordable. has absolutely nothing to do in this thread ^^; oh well.

Hard to imagine someone fucking up this thread but here we are.

[kuuky]

Quit buying/selling to boutik.
I’ve had enough of that incomplete sentencing making fool.

I couldn't agree more! Boutik should definetely step away from the game for a bit and spend some time with a Rosetta stone for English.

[kaluppo]

the staff of the wood man dude come on. just an excellent weapon, stable price and very affordable. has absolutely nothing to do in this thread ^^; oh well.

"what weapon(s) do you feel are overpriced in today's market?"

That's quoted from the title of this thread. So yeah, my opinion on a weapon I think is over priced has something to do with the thread. In fact it has everything to do with it.

[Twochain]

My two biggest are probably:

Zhearts - simply ain't that good. Useful but not 145k useful
Maple leaf mask - this item is a fucking joke in every way. It goes for 50-90k iirc and I wouldnt pay 3k for it.

hard wrong, z-heart is bis on every caster

[enjchanter]

hard wrong, z-heart is bis on every caster

As someone who plays 2 high level casters and used zhearts on them, I'm going to agree to disagree. Enchanters will benefit from having one sure, but I wouldnt pay 145k for it. My necro will use epic main hand everyday all day, instead of a zheart even without being iksar. The regen is just too insignificant on a class that has lifetaps

Will admit bias because my enchanter has a ring10 and doesnt need a zheart anymore

[Jimjam]

Combine Great Staffs. Unlike most combine weapons they lose most of their value as soon as you walk them out of the shop.

Also the ivory handled weapons from Cabilis Salt Market. Sure, they look good and are magical, but you'll never find a vendor buying them for any amont of plat close to what you paid for it!

[Muggens]

The only thing off the top of my head is the woodsman staff. I was using search here to see what a good ranger weapon would be and I found a ton of threads talking about how a woodsman staff was the best bang for the buck weapon a ranger can get at only 100-200 PP.

Then I go to EC tunnel and see they are selling for 4K PP. YIKES, those threads were a bit outdated I guess. It doesn't even have any stats and is 2H blunt so it prevents you from having stats in your secondary slot. No thanks.

Oh and the spell nature walkers behest selling for 500pp LOL. It's a worthless druid pet! For 50 pp I might buy it just for fun but 500? I don't think so! Homey don't play dat!

Allow me to expose my colon once again.
Dead wrong on woodsman staff, but high 5 for the In Living Color quote

[kaluppo]

Allow me to expose my colon once again.
Dead wrong on woodsman staff, but high 5 for the In Living Color quote

Show's my age, lol. I was wondering if anyone would get that. And I am not wrong on the woodsman staff for two reasons.

1). I hardly ever see any rangers running around with a 2HB. That doesn't mean they don't have one in a bag or in the bank but it seems to me that all the 20+ rangers I run into are sporting either two swords or one sword and a 1HB with a bow in the range slot.

2). Opinion's can't be wrong by the very definition of the word opinion. They can agree with yours or disagree with yours but they can't be wrong.

[Muggens]

They just think dual wield is cooler/more dps but hard to beat wood!

[Nikkanu]

As someone who plays 2 high level casters and used zhearts on them, I'm going to agree to disagree. Enchanters will benefit from having one sure, but I wouldnt pay 145k for it. My necro will use epic main hand everyday all day, instead of a zheart even without being iksar. The regen is just too insignificant on a class that has lifetaps

I almost always use my necro to raid... Z's heart + iksar regen + regrowth = I can lich non-stop without losing HP and never having to swap weapons to my VP staff to lifetap a summoned eye. Nearly every raid mob is immune to lifetap (NOT CLASSIC!) anyways so it's a pretty moot point.

Over a 10 minute fight having 5hp/tick extra regen is the same as having an additional 500hp to lich, and no one would consider an extra 500hp buff that stacks with all other buffs and doesn't take up a buff slot to be insignificant.

All casters have a serious lack of hp regen items since they can't wear fungis or iksar regen bps.

For a soloing enchanter a Zlandicar's Heart is great and means a lot less downtime waiting for HP to regen.

145k is not really a lot compared to other items (I'm looking at you AOW monk pants, White Dragonscale Boots, Boots of the Storm, Helm of Rallos Zek, etc).

[Shinko]

z-heart is overated AF

[Lysander]

I read that too in those threads. I just wonder why it was 100-200 PP for so long and then jumped to 4K. I grouped with a lot of rangers in MM, CoM and KC. Almost all of them were sporting two swords that were not epics. Now maybe it's just a fashion thing. 2 swords does look cooler then a big stick for sure.

Woodsman's Staff was never 100-200p. It used to be more expensive than it is now, the price is in fact falling, no tunnel rats are conspiring to make a 100p item sell for 4k. I believe you are thinking of the Silver Swiftblade which is said to be a cheap alternative to a Woodsman's Staff in several threads I've read concerning ranger weapons.

In any case, I can confirm that it is a great weapon and well worth it for any ranger at its current price.

[enjchanter]

@nikkanu I think in your equation, the iksar regen holds way more weight than the Zheart does but you do have a good point. If you hold it long enough it will eventually be helpful i suppose. If i had a VP necro staff, id probably care even less about a zlandicar heart tbh.

As far as enchanter, im not going to deny its usefulness. It served me well for the time i needed it but my Ring 10 makes it not worth it to me personally. I think its price is inflated because it comes off an alt tier dragon is all. Someone made a good point that if the fungi and zheart were swapped, the prices would reflect and thats my point basically.


In short, i think enchanters should pay maybe 60k for it (pushing it) and necros should pay even less than that.

[Nikkanu]

@nikkanu I think in your equation, the iksar regen holds way more weight than the Zheart does but you do have a good point. If you hold it long enough it will eventually be helpful i suppose. If i had a VP necro staff, id probably care even less about a zlandicar heart tbh.

As far as enchanter, im not going to deny its usefulness. It served me well for the time i needed it but my Ring 10 makes it not worth it to me personally. I think its price is inflated because it comes off an alt tier dragon is all. Someone made a good point that if the fungi and zheart were swapped, the prices would reflect and thats my point basically.


In short, i think enchanters should pay maybe 60k for it (pushing it) and necros should pay even less than that.


All very true. It's certainly not game breaking by any means but is a nice luxury to have if you can afford it. Can just do what I did and join a raiding guild and get it for free. :)

Without Z's heart you still lose HP in lich form even as an iksar and if you are raiding you'd have to rely on heals or turn lich off eventually unless you could lifetap something (which in places like ToV might not be possible).

If you are strapped for cash and have more pressing needs I can understand holding off... but if you have plat to spare and want a good amount of utility it's hard to beat.

[kaluppo]

Woodsman's Staff was never 100-200p. It used to be more expensive than it is now, the price is in fact falling, no tunnel rats are conspiring to make a 100p item sell for 4k. I believe you are thinking of the Silver Swiftblade which is said to be a cheap alternative to a Woodsman's Staff in several threads I've read concerning ranger weapons.

In any case, I can confirm that it is a great weapon and well worth it for any ranger at its current price.

You are absolutely right. I looked back at some of the posts and that is exactly what I did. Everyone seemed to recommend the swiftblade till 30 and then the woodsman staff till epics. The price I had stuck in my head was the one for the swiftblade not the woodsman staff.

I still can't see spending 4K for it though. If it was a bad ass looking axe or sword then sure. But a big stick? It's a fashion thing I guess. I think people come to groups with their swords in hands but pull out the staff when they fear kite in the karanas :P

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

There's no such thing as overpriced. There are asked prices, offered prices, and market history (when ask and offer meet).

If I auction a Fungi for 1 million pp in EC tomorrow, it will not make that item overpriced, it will just not net me any buyers.

The right price is when offer meets demand, and that means that this is the right price for that particular item, at that particular time (bonus points if you just said "catch 22").

There's always one of these in every thread eh?

We get it, you took an economics class in community college...

I guess we can scratch that word from the dictionary then? Someone call Webster...

[Izmael]

There's always one of these in every thread eh?

We get it, you took an economics class in community college...

I guess we can scratch that word from the dictionary then? Someone call Webster...

No economic classes, just half a brain and some common sense.

Also I've turned a stack of bone chips into millions of platinum over a few months in the EC tunnel casually flipping shit on a 19" monitor while doing actual RL work on the side, 2-3 years ago (how? keywords: log, tail, grep, notifications). So I have a pretty good vision of the P99 economy, sellers, buyers, farmers, people in a hurry, etc.

People who use the word "overpriced" when talking about the EC tunnel action simply don't give it very much thought.

Again, there's no "overpriced" or "underpriced". If Boutik (or whoever the current famous EC flipper there is) decided to profit by buying as many CoS as possible, all he does it to drive the offer down.

The offer goes down, the demand stays the same, this drives prices up. But the item isn't becoming overpriced. It's still properly priced, the price just went up.

Just like when there's a new conflict in the Middle-East, gas prices go up. Gas doesn't become overpriced. It's just the new gas price.

TL;DR: the most overpriced item on P99 is obviously Lulz's cups of coffee. Now THAT is overpriced.

[Gozuk]

There is no spoon

[Hibbs]

There is no spoon

Is something bleeding??

[Jimjam]

TL;DR: the most overpriced item on P99 is obviously Lulz's cups of coffee. Now THAT is overpriced.They're underpriced. He acquires them for free, which must be substantially less than cost, unless they are a waste product that has storage costs in excess of its acquisition costs.

[Talinthis]

all of them! every single one was cheaper on live :D

[Pico]

There's no such thing as overpriced. There are asked prices, offered prices, and market history (when ask and offer meet).

If I auction a Fungi for 1 million pp in EC tomorrow, it will not make that item overpriced, it will just not net me any buyers.

The right price is when offer meets demand, and that means that this is the right price for that particular item, at that particular time (bonus points if you just said "catch 22").

only works if actors are rational, dont think thats the case here with ppl playing 20 yr old elf simulation genius

[Nikkanu]

Overpriced is totally subjective.

[Vapos]

Fungi tunics. After 7-8 years of Kunark there must be 10 tunics for every person actively playing on the server, yet they're still 45k.

[Dabeach]

There is no spoon

Lies !

http://wiki.project1999.com/Spoon

[Mblake1981]

Goes to show how our community values fashion.

The only game I ever really gave a damn about it. It's also the reason i am against armor dyes. The gear tells where you have been, your status. I can recognize somethings by just looking at the graphic and its color.

The best looking gear is the hardest to get, with some exceptions. The wily robe looks x10000 better than Vulak.. which is bonkers. EotN looks better than winters fury but its not better.

I want my rogue looking sleek and deadly.
I want my bard to be uniform color, like lambent, been chasing SS legs forever.
I want my wizard looking arcane and powerful.

Dark Elf, imo, wins any FQ barely trying. My characters are natural drow or can illusion.

https://i.imgur.com/BG9rNUa.jpg?1

[Pringles]

Fungi tunics. After 7-8 years of Kunark there must be 10 tunics for every person actively playing on the server, yet they're still 45k.

I think someone posted an SQL query earlier done by Rogean. Only like 4600 fungi tunics out there.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Overpriced is totally subjective.

Hence why there is a thread asking peoples Subjective opinion on the matter...

[Aerumnous]

Lodi's Belt.

Loot rights (and/or MQ) for the PlunderPatchEye.

Busted prices. Must boycott. Or find sugar momma to fund me.

[wagorf]

wavecrasher
edge of nightwalker
living thunder earring
hiero cloak
crescent blades of luclin
cowl of mortality

[Liia]

Im surprised those 2 PoG items werent mentionned yet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Woven_Cord_of_Mistletoe
https://wiki.project1999.com/Woven_Vine_Wristband

While the Cord might be usefull on a cleric. I dont think its that good on enchanter, I wouldnt give up stats on PoM Belt or BCG that apparently got a similar value.
And for the bracer, I still cant figure out what class its good on. Monk maybe, but still crap to me.

[Teppler]

wavecrasher
edge of nightwalker
living thunder earring
hiero cloak
crescent blades of luclin
cowl of mortality

Hiero cloak, like fungi, is another one of the amazing bang for your buck type items.

There’s few items you get better value for the cash.

[Teppler]

Im surprised those 2 PoG items werent mentionned yet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Woven_Cord_of_Mistletoe
https://wiki.project1999.com/Woven_Vine_Wristband

While the Cord might be usefull on a cleric. I dont think its that good on enchanter, I wouldnt give up stats on PoM Belt or BCG that apparently got a similar value.
And for the bracer, I still cant figure out what class its good on. Monk maybe, but still crap to me.

In some ways that wrist is BiS for monk, extremely rare and only like 30k.

I wouldn’t touch that waist piece though.

[Toodles]

This is a long read though please carry on as it should resonate with some of you. It may also give pause on some things.

If you want a TL;DR, it's looking various aspects that dictate value, then analyzing a particular item, where I assign values to those parameters as well as a few direct comparisons at the end.
It's not the buyers fault as we always presume and a lack of consistency in appraising items via an understood baseline is the biggest factor, alongside an inefficient method of distributing the price data.



There's several factors to consider on this issue.

Buyer ignorance
Lack of agreed value baseline
No real risk for sellers/investors
The format we are using for viewing and storing prices (i.e. Project 1999 wikipedia)
Item I find overpriced the most currently and comparisons to others


Buyer ignorance

This isn't quite what it seems.
We have this attitude towards players that they're willingly giving sellers their asking price, consequently enabling and further promulgating the idea that they are appropriate. Or that they're rich and lazy and will pay whatever to get what they want.

Really we do not have any proof of that. Rather I don't think that's much the case. Evidence we have is that a lot of the high priced value items stay on auction for fair amount of time. The only thing that changes are the names of the sellers whom simply shift over so they won't be on everyone's ignore list.

If they were selling at a great rate, then we wouldn't be seeing the auctions as often.

Lack of agreed value baseline

Whatever attempts at this were done previously, only some remnants remain - where it suits people whether buying or selling. We should again establish a baseline for what constitutes value.

Common parameters would be :

Stats

A consideration for the stats, the type of stats and their values
Also influenced by what EverQuest era. e.g. +cold is somewhat more desirable in Velious era


Rarity/Difficulty

How many exist already
Does it still drop
Drop rate
How difficult is it to be obtained : Quest or drop; multi quest capable; faction required; raid mob high level; hard to reach; etc.
Is it lore
Is it no trade/no drop
Can it be Multi-quested
Does the mob have a place holder
Does the place holder require a turn in item
What is time of respawn


Utility/proc/click

Does it contain a secondary/auxiliary function
Is this function actually useful or for fun/show
Is the effect charge based
Is the effect click or proc based


Physical restrictions

Class/race/deity/size requirements
Level requirement to equip or use or both
Does it have to be worn


Aesthetics

Fashion quest

Miscellaneous

Does the item or it's effect relate or correlate to another item, ability, skill, spell or actions in-game that affect it's use and subsequently it's value
Is the item actually in high demand for whatever reasons or perceived reasons
Has the item's market value produce any observable patterns


Unfortunately it seems that while at first glance many high value items take much of the above into consideration(or did at one time), that is not actually the case. Which leaves it open to wild interpretation and consumer ignorance enables market cornering and finally price fixing.

No real risk for sellers/investors

And while we could spend a lot of time talking about virtual trading versus real world (e.g. a tangible item that has physical value [think money backed by gold]), the real missing aspect is risk.
In the real world of business and the marketplace, buying up stock of a product and cornering the market doesn't always work out. Many variables can stand in your way such as a shift in consumer attitude/interest, a rival product appearing, a transcending financial crisis that means sales are down universally, scam and fraudulent buyers and more.

You make that mistake in life, it could leave you bankrupt. You don't file a chapter 9 in EverQuest.

The only way this gets fixed is that :

A ) We get back some modicum of baseline for what constitutes value.
B ) Consumers educated themselves and refuse to pay exorbitant costs. They demand the seller provide a fair price.


Format for viewing and storing prices

The Project 1999 wikipedia price tracker is pretty poor. Fortunately there is the averages however in time that becomes less and less effective.
The method to importing is pretty primitive and certainly controversial given anyone can fudge the data and upload without any scrutiny or checks.

There use to be an option to amend entries that were inappropriate, though this doesn't work.

A better method would be that (at least for high value items), the buyer or seller screenshots the transaction, submits that to Ravhin and a team of volunteers whom check it for legitimacy and then update the Wiki manually. Should anything seem extraordinary or unreasonable given an item's perceived value(refer back to baseline parameters above), then the submissions is declined.
This would mean that the tracker doesn't show a bunch of log entries (which are often inconsistent themselves) - rather it would show the price, which in time will get updated should there be a significant enough change and/or maybe on an agreed time such as monthly.

Why this wasn't arranged by the community prior I do not understand. We can have gatherings at hotel conference rooms about the raid scene, though nothing about the in-game economy (partly fueled and in large part saturated because of the raid scene).


What items I find over priced

As for my personal list...too many to name, however any high priced item going now, is likely four to forty times it's actual worth. Pretty much anything and everything shared by the others so far. And in my head, I cannot see any item really worth more than 100,000 with exception to a Manastone, and that is questionable given it is locked to pre Kunark areas for use.
The most flagrant example to me though is with Circlet of Shadow:


Prior to the nerf, it could be had for 2000-4000pp
Post nerf, people were trying their luck at 6000-7000pp
In 2018/2019 the price has risen to 30000-35000pp


Let's look at what it offers:

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/6/0/606aa83a96db4dfbd9183998c48aca3f.png



The weight is not significant
The class restriction limits it to two
Race is not a factor
Size is a factor
Deity is not a facotr
Instant click invisibility effect, that is not a charge and not a proc
Level Requirement is only on the effect
Item must be equipped to use effect
It is lore, though can be traded



Going by the parameters mentioned above, let's analyze:

Stats

Pure stats are respectable. 5AC and +10 to disease/poison is welcome for anyone. The mana is a small bonus.
However there are better stats on easier to obtain items.

On stats alone I would value it at around 200pp or less.

Rarity/Difficulty


There are plenty of these in circulation, pre and post nerf
The mob and difficulty in obtaining it were medium at best. Swish or someone whom spends time camping and soloing could rate it on a scale, however getting into Droga and breaking the camp with a 50+ char is pretty basic stuff.
The drop rate was certainly uncommon/rare though not very rare
It no longer drops
It is lore
It is not no trade/no drop
Does not require questing
Respawn time is roughly twenty minutes


From a collector standpoint, it not dropping anymore might give it more value, such as with a Ykeasha Mace.
From a use standpoint, it not dropping anymore does give it value IF the market was in short supply. At this stage there are so many in existence, there won't be enough new Shadow Knights and/or Necromancers joining Project 1999 that demand will outstrip supply.

The item was also fairly easy to obtain.

For that I give it no added value/price for rarity.

Utility/proc/click


Feature : Invisibility is helpful to anyone and everyone
Utility : Being able to cast it instantly saves you precious time and means you can do it while on the move/in motion
Use method : Instant click no proc
Charges : N/A has no limit on use


The real selling point here is the effect, which if not hindered by physical features it could be a legitimate 50k or higher item, yet as it is limited by class restriction and equipping to use, as well invisibility only works on living creatures (therefore not all mobs), I value the effect around 500pp maybe 1000pp.

Physical Restrictions

Class : Restricted to two
Must be equipped to use


This is as mentioned above, the thing that considerably lowers it's potential value as it is not an all/all or inventory click by all item.

No added value for this aspect.

Aesthetics

Always subjective, though not an item known for it's graphic, unlike Rubicite or Cultural armors.

No added value for this aspect.

Miscellaneous

Sometimes a hard parameter to define and qualify, though on this one it was quite obvious that when used in conjunction with Feign Death, you could achieve much greater success at managing mobs and avoiding failures/set backs.

It increased overall experience gaining efficiency as a result while also providing a safety net.

Due to this it's effect value would again, be very high.
Yet the first Feign had to be work, otherwise it was irrelevant. And this is not a guarantee, either.

However the big key, and if nothing else, this is the TL;DR about this particular item:
Feign Death and the Memblur mechanic was finally fixed and as a result, past level thirty-five, should you stand before a mob resets, you will likely have aggro and they'll see through invisibility.

Also, this item is not high in demand by any stretch and it's market value from an observed sense is not showing any logical patterns. The price rise seems to begin at an arbitrary point as opposed to what would be the logical one - slightly prior to or soon after the removal from the game world.
Yet in 2016, it's value was peaking at around 5-6000 even post removal.

Therefore, I can only add 2000pp at most for this miscellaneous aspect of it's utility given that mechanic update and it's popularity.


Conclusion


This item was not hard to acquire
The use is heavily class limited
The effect use is heavily class and physically limited
There are plenty in circulation
The underlying mechanic that gave the effect much of it's usefulness and as a result it's value, has been changed to the point it makes the effect a moot point under those circumstances
These are not high in demand


My total appraisal then : 2500pp (Stats : 500, Effect : 2000)






Contrasting against other like items on various parameters


For comparison by way of stats the Blackened Ally Coif:
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/0/8/08ffcd8938e5d20080cc9818b1e44662.png

Stats
This is a better item on pure stats, and is not that much easier to get. I will find you plenty of people that will prefer to camp a bodyguard, rather than Lord Pickclaw or wander around RunnyEye in their impatience trying to get Foeseeker and hope it drops.

The value of the item is roughly 400pp.
I find the stats are better from an overall approach, though would not argue provided someone found the Circlet of Shadow stats more suitable for their build and thus find the two items competitors for that market space.


And a comparison with different parameters for : Staff of the Dreaded Gaze (from Xalgoz)
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/9/3/93cc4f0e90f16f8ae68d2c6248f89f9b.png

Stats
To a low level they would be absolutely welcome yet at the same time, you can obtain many many other comparative hand held items or weapons with better stats for significantly less. For those with even a short supply of coin a Cone of the Mystics and Rokyls Channeling Crystal would be impressive. They are around 250 and 500pp respectively.

Rarity/Difficulty
Dropped by Xalgoz in Kaesora, a mob that is not difficult to reach, or to force to spawn. He is however a higher level mob than the bodyguard that dropped the Circlet of Shadow, and provided you let him self buff, able to put up an exceptional challenge to post 50 players when soloing on certain classes.

His difficulty rating therefore his higher than the Droga mob without question.
The drop rate for the item is another factor and possibly the biggest factor often over looked or unknown to many. From parses/logs and feedback from both Project 1999 and the original servers, the estimation is roughly :

One staff drops in ninety appearances by Xalgoz. Xalgoz has about a 1/3 or 1/4 chance to spawn on a thirty minute timer.
Quick math would have this that presuming he spawned twice in an hour, making that forty-five hours. Though many have confirmed one hundred or more hours to obtain the staff.

Utility/proc/click
At first glance the ability to click Fear seems quite useful. Given that most people can use the baseline Fear spell (instead of the upgraded ones) as it will land on mobs at even higher level, and that it would save you recasting what is a frequently used spell, you'd be hard pressed to find any fault.

Yet eight seconds is a fair amount of time, and you're not always fear kiting as a Necromancer, especially later on.

There is debate over whether it really is an effective click effect.
For myself I find it is, at least in contrast to others that exist.

And given that it is a click and not a proc, you have control over it completely.

Physical Restrictions
Class limited to one : Necromancer
Effect limited : Level 40
Equip limited : Must be equipped

Aesthetics
This might be the other factor that affects it's value the most. It has the Sarnak Skull at the head of a basic wooden straight staff. However it is not alone and there are other items with that look. It does not emit an aura or special colors/particle effects.

Miscellaneous
Nothing to add

The value of this item is currently 12,000 and that has been the case for quite some time - several years or more.
For myself, I can't justify at that amount. It's a single class, limited situation use, unremarkable stat based item that is not difficult to obtain, only time consuming.

I would appraise it 5500pp

In direct contrast to the Circle of Shadow, it's effect is more useful, it is more rare and more difficult to obtain and carries some aesthetics value.

[Toodles]

in Conclusion

It is quite clear from the feedback and comments by others now and in the past that this is not a small issue. The good news is that most of these items seem to be limited to a smaller % of the total available, possibly less than one hundred. Therefore there should be no direct effect on being able to play and enjoy the game.
However there is a real concern and it has happened many times already, that the lack of an adhered to baseline for appraising goods combined with buyer ignorance, will mean eventually not so 'high value' items will see their prices go up. It is a type of inflation yet not an organic one that is set by actual consumer demand or proper item evaluation.
This synthetic price hike is done at the whim of sellers only and it is important that all players from low to high end, educate themselves and push back.

[gutterbrain]

This thread just went from A tier to S tier. Posting in an epic thread.

[Muggens]

This is a long read though please carry on as it should resonate with some of you. It may also give pause on some things.

If you want a TL;DR, it's looking various aspects that dictate value, then analyzing a particular item, where I assign values to those parameters as well as a few direct comparisons at the end.
It's not the buyers fault as we always presume and a lack of consistency in appraising items via an understood baseline is the biggest factor, alongside an inefficient method of distributing the price data.



There's several factors to consider on this issue.

Buyer ignorance
Lack of agreed value baseline
No real risk for sellers/investors
The format we are using for viewing and storing prices (i.e. Project 1999 wikipedia)
Item I find overpriced the most currently and comparisons to others


Buyer ignorance

This isn't quite what it seems.
We have this attitude towards players that they're willingly giving sellers their asking price, consequently enabling and further promulgating the idea that they are appropriate. Or that they're rich and lazy and will pay whatever to get what they want.

Really we do not have any proof of that. Rather I don't think that's much the case. Evidence we have is that a lot of the high priced value items stay on auction for fair amount of time. The only thing that changes are the names of the sellers whom simply shift over so they won't be on everyone's ignore list.

If they were selling at a great rate, then we wouldn't be seeing the auctions as often.

Lack of agreed value baseline

Whatever attempts at this were done previously, only some remnants remain - where it suits people whether buying or selling. We should again establish a baseline for what constitutes value.

Common parameters would be :

Stats

A consideration for the stats, the type of stats and their values
Also influenced by what EverQuest era. e.g. +cold is somewhat more desirable in Velious era


Rarity/Difficulty

How many exist already
Does it still drop
Drop rate
How difficult is it to be obtained : Quest or drop; multi quest capable; faction required; raid mob high level; hard to reach; etc.
Is it lore
Is it no trade/no drop
Can it be Multi-quested
Does the mob have a place holder
Does the place holder require a turn in item
What is time of respawn


Utility/proc/click

Does it contain a secondary/auxiliary function
Is this function actually useful or for fun/show
Is the effect charge based
Is the effect click or proc based


Physical restrictions

Class/race/deity/size requirements
Level requirement to equip or use or both
Does it have to be worn


Aesthetics

Fashion quest

Miscellaneous

Does the item or it's effect relate or correlate to another item, ability, skill, spell or actions in-game that affect it's use and subsequently it's value
Is the item actually in high demand for whatever reasons or perceived reasons
Has the item's market value produce any observable patterns


Unfortunately it seems that while at first glance many high value items take much of the above into consideration(or did at one time), that is not actually the case. Which leaves it open to wild interpretation and consumer ignorance enables market cornering and finally price fixing.

No real risk for sellers/investors

And while we could spend a lot of time talking about virtual trading versus real world (e.g. a tangible item that has physical value [think money backed by gold]), the real missing aspect is risk.
In the real world of business and the marketplace, buying up stock of a product and cornering the market doesn't always work out. Many variables can stand in your way such as a shift in consumer attitude/interest, a rival product appearing, a transcending financial crisis that means sales are down universally, scam and fraudulent buyers and more.

You make that mistake in life, it could leave you bankrupt. You don't file a chapter 9 in EverQuest.

The only way this gets fixed is that :

A ) We get back some modicum of baseline for what constitutes value.
B ) Consumers educated themselves and refuse to pay exorbitant costs. They demand the seller provide a fair price.


Format for viewing and storing prices

The Project 1999 wikipedia price tracker is pretty poor. Fortunately there is the averages however in time that becomes less and less effective.
The method to importing is pretty primitive and certainly controversial given anyone can fudge the data and upload without any scrutiny or checks.

There use to be an option to amend entries that were inappropriate, though this doesn't work.

A better method would be that (at least for high value items), the buyer or seller screenshots the transaction, submits that to Ravhin and a team of volunteers whom check it for legitimacy and then update the Wiki manually. Should anything seem extraordinary or unreasonable given an item's perceived value(refer back to baseline parameters above), then the submissions is declined.
This would mean that the tracker doesn't show a bunch of log entries (which are often inconsistent themselves) - rather it would show the price, which in time will get updated should there be a significant enough change and/or maybe on an agreed time such as monthly.

Why this wasn't arranged by the community prior I do not understand. We can have gatherings at hotel conference rooms about the raid scene, though nothing about the in-game economy (partly fueled and in large part saturated because of the raid scene).


What items I find over priced

As for my personal list...too many to name, however any high priced item going now, is likely four to forty times it's actual worth. Pretty much anything and everything shared by the others so far. And in my head, I cannot see any item really worth more than 100,000 with exception to a Manastone, and that is questionable given it is locked to pre Kunark areas for use.
The most flagrant example to me though is with Circlet of Shadow:


Prior to the nerf, it could be had for 2000-4000pp
Post nerf, people were trying their luck at 6000-7000pp
In 2018/2019 the price has risen to 30000-35000pp


Let's look at what it offers:

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/6/0/606aa83a96db4dfbd9183998c48aca3f.png



The weight is not significant
The class restriction limits it to two
Race is not a factor
Size is a factor
Deity is not a facotr
Instant click invisibility effect, that is not a charge and not a proc
Level Requirement is only on the effect
Item must be equipped to use effect
It is lore, though can be traded



Going by the parameters mentioned above, let's analyze:

Stats

Pure stats are respectable. 5AC and +10 to disease/poison is welcome for anyone. The mana is a small bonus.
However there are better stats on easier to obtain items.

On stats alone I would value it at around 200pp or less.

Rarity/Difficulty


There are plenty of these in circulation, pre and post nerf
The mob and difficulty in obtaining it were medium at best. Swish or someone whom spends time camping and soloing could rate it on a scale, however getting into Droga and breaking the camp with a 50+ char is pretty basic stuff.
The drop rate was certainly uncommon/rare though not very rare
It no longer drops
It is lore
It is not no trade/no drop
Does not require questing
Respawn time is roughly twenty minutes


From a collector standpoint, it not dropping anymore might give it more value, such as with a Ykeasha Mace.
From a use standpoint, it not dropping anymore does give it value IF the market was in short supply. At this stage there are so many in existence, there won't be enough new Shadow Knights and/or Necromancers joining Project 1999 that demand will outstrip supply.

The item was also fairly easy to obtain.

For that I give it no added value/price for rarity.

Utility/proc/click


Feature : Invisibility is helpful to anyone and everyone
Utility : Being able to cast it instantly saves you precious time and means you can do it while on the move/in motion
Use method : Instant click no proc
Charges : N/A has no limit on use


The real selling point here is the effect, which if not hindered by physical features it could be a legitimate 50k or higher item, yet as it is limited by class restriction and equipping to use, as well invisibility only works on living creatures (therefore not all mobs), I value the effect around 500pp maybe 1000pp.

Physical Restrictions

Class : Restricted to two
Must be equipped to use


This is as mentioned above, the thing that considerably lowers it's potential value as it is not an all/all or inventory click by all item.

No added value for this aspect.

Aesthetics

Always subjective, though not an item known for it's graphic, unlike Rubicite or Cultural armors.

No added value for this aspect.

Miscellaneous

Sometimes a hard parameter to define and qualify, though on this one it was quite obvious that when used in conjunction with Feign Death, you could achieve much greater success at managing mobs and avoiding failures/set backs.

It increased overall experience gaining efficiency as a result while also providing a safety net.

Due to this it's effect value would again, be very high.
Yet the first Feign had to be work, otherwise it was irrelevant. And this is not a guarantee, either.

However the big key, and if nothing else, this is the TL;DR about this particular item:
Feign Death and the Memblur mechanic was finally fixed and as a result, past level thirty-five, should you stand before a mob resets, you will likely have aggro and they'll see through invisibility.

Also, this item is not high in demand by any stretch and it's market value from an observed sense is not showing any logical patterns. The price rise seems to begin at an arbitrary point as opposed to what would be the logical one - slightly prior to or soon after the removal from the game world.
Yet in 2016, it's value was peaking at around 5-6000 even post removal.

Therefore, I can only add 2000pp at most for this miscellaneous aspect of it's utility given that mechanic update and it's popularity.


Conclusion


This item was not hard to acquire
The use is heavily class limited
The effect use is heavily class and physically limited
There are plenty in circulation
The underlying mechanic that gave the effect much of it's usefulness and as a result it's value, has been changed to the point it makes the effect a moot point under those circumstances
These are not high in demand


My total appraisal then : 2500pp (Stats : 500, Effect : 2000)






Contrasting against other like items on various parameters


For comparison by way of stats the Blackened Ally Coif:
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/0/8/08ffcd8938e5d20080cc9818b1e44662.png

Stats
This is a better item on pure stats, and is not that much easier to get. I will find you plenty of people that will prefer to camp a bodyguard, rather than Lord Pickclaw or wander around RunnyEye in their impatience trying to get Foeseeker and hope it drops.

The value of the item is roughly 400pp.
I find the stats are better from an overall approach, though would not argue provided someone found the Circlet of Shadow stats more suitable for their build and thus find the two items competitors for that market space.


And a comparison with different parameters for : Staff of the Dreaded Gaze (from Xalgoz)
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/9/3/93cc4f0e90f16f8ae68d2c6248f89f9b.png

Stats
To a low level they would be absolutely welcome yet at the same time, you can obtain many many other comparative hand held items or weapons with better stats for significantly less. For those with even a short supply of coin a Cone of the Mystics and Rokyls Channeling Crystal would be impressive. They are around 250 and 500pp respectively.

Rarity/Difficulty
Dropped by Xalgoz in Kaesora, a mob that is not difficult to reach, or to force to spawn. He is however a higher level mob than the bodyguard that dropped the Circlet of Shadow, and provided you let him self buff, able to put up an exceptional challenge to post 50 players when soloing on certain classes.

His difficulty rating therefore his higher than the Droga mob without question.
The drop rate for the item is another factor and possibly the biggest factor often over looked or unknown to many. From parses/logs and feedback from both Project 1999 and the original servers, the estimation is roughly :

One staff drops in ninety appearances by Xalgoz. Xalgoz has about a 1/3 or 1/4 chance to spawn on a thirty minute timer.
Quick math would have this that presuming he spawned twice in an hour, making that forty-five hours. Though many have confirmed one hundred or more hours to obtain the staff.

Utility/proc/click
At first glance the ability to click Fear seems quite useful. Given that most people can use the baseline Fear spell (instead of the upgraded ones) as it will land on mobs at even higher level, and that it would save you recasting what is a frequently used spell, you'd be hard pressed to find any fault.

Yet eight seconds is a fair amount of time, and you're not always fear kiting as a Necromancer, especially later on.

There is debate over whether it really is an effective click effect.
For myself I find it is, at least in contrast to others that exist.

And given that it is a click and not a proc, you have control over it completely.

Physical Restrictions
Class limited to one : Necromancer
Effect limited : Level 40
Equip limited : Must be equipped

Aesthetics
This might be the other factor that affects it's value the most. It has the Sarnak Skull at the head of a basic wooden straight staff. However it is not alone and there are other items with that look. It does not emit an aura or special colors/particle effects.

Miscellaneous
Nothing to add

The value of this item is currently 12,000 and that has been the case for quite some time - several years or more.
For myself, I can't justify at that amount. It's a single class, limited situation use, unremarkable stat based item that is not difficult to obtain, only time consuming.

I would appraise it 5500pp

In direct contrast to the Circle of Shadow, it's effect is more useful, it is more rare and more difficult to obtain and carries some aesthetics value.

Zzzz

[Swish2]

What's a pre-nerf CoS up to now? People still flipping them off each other and bumping the price?

[wagorf]

Hiero cloak, like fungi, is another one of the amazing bang for your buck type items.

There’s few items you get better value for the cash.

hiero is a good item but it's definitely not value for the cash

u look at cloak of maelstorm/dire wolf hide cloak/hooded black cloak, all less than 1/10 of hiero cost but the stats are not 1/0

it's the same concept as heavy/peerless/matchless mantles with prices at 4000/12000/40000. 10 extra hp and mana for 28k more. the only reason i didn't list this item is because there are no other droppable melee items that give u much hp.

[Nikkanu]

This is a long read though please carry on as it should resonate with some of you. It may also give pause on some things.

If you want a TL;DR, it's looking various aspects that dictate value, then analyzing a particular item, where I assign values to those parameters as well as a few direct comparisons at the end.
It's not the buyers fault as we always presume and a lack of consistency in appraising items via an understood baseline is the biggest factor, alongside an inefficient method of distributing the price data.



There's several factors to consider on this issue.

Buyer ignorance
Lack of agreed value baseline
No real risk for sellers/investors
The format we are using for viewing and storing prices (i.e. Project 1999 wikipedia)
Item I find overpriced the most currently and comparisons to others


Buyer ignorance

This isn't quite what it seems.
We have this attitude towards players that they're willingly giving sellers their asking price, consequently enabling and further promulgating the idea that they are appropriate. Or that they're rich and lazy and will pay whatever to get what they want.

Really we do not have any proof of that. Rather I don't think that's much the case. Evidence we have is that a lot of the high priced value items stay on auction for fair amount of time. The only thing that changes are the names of the sellers whom simply shift over so they won't be on everyone's ignore list.

If they were selling at a great rate, then we wouldn't be seeing the auctions as often.

Lack of agreed value baseline

Whatever attempts at this were done previously, only some remnants remain - where it suits people whether buying or selling. We should again establish a baseline for what constitutes value.

Common parameters would be :

Stats

A consideration for the stats, the type of stats and their values
Also influenced by what EverQuest era. e.g. +cold is somewhat more desirable in Velious era


Rarity/Difficulty

How many exist already
Does it still drop
Drop rate
How difficult is it to be obtained : Quest or drop; multi quest capable; faction required; raid mob high level; hard to reach; etc.
Is it lore
Is it no trade/no drop
Can it be Multi-quested
Does the mob have a place holder
Does the place holder require a turn in item
What is time of respawn


Utility/proc/click

Does it contain a secondary/auxiliary function
Is this function actually useful or for fun/show
Is the effect charge based
Is the effect click or proc based


Physical restrictions

Class/race/deity/size requirements
Level requirement to equip or use or both
Does it have to be worn


Aesthetics

Fashion quest

Miscellaneous

Does the item or it's effect relate or correlate to another item, ability, skill, spell or actions in-game that affect it's use and subsequently it's value
Is the item actually in high demand for whatever reasons or perceived reasons
Has the item's market value produce any observable patterns


Unfortunately it seems that while at first glance many high value items take much of the above into consideration(or did at one time), that is not actually the case. Which leaves it open to wild interpretation and consumer ignorance enables market cornering and finally price fixing.

No real risk for sellers/investors

And while we could spend a lot of time talking about virtual trading versus real world (e.g. a tangible item that has physical value [think money backed by gold]), the real missing aspect is risk.
In the real world of business and the marketplace, buying up stock of a product and cornering the market doesn't always work out. Many variables can stand in your way such as a shift in consumer attitude/interest, a rival product appearing, a transcending financial crisis that means sales are down universally, scam and fraudulent buyers and more.

You make that mistake in life, it could leave you bankrupt. You don't file a chapter 9 in EverQuest.

The only way this gets fixed is that :

A ) We get back some modicum of baseline for what constitutes value.
B ) Consumers educated themselves and refuse to pay exorbitant costs. They demand the seller provide a fair price.


Format for viewing and storing prices

The Project 1999 wikipedia price tracker is pretty poor. Fortunately there is the averages however in time that becomes less and less effective.
The method to importing is pretty primitive and certainly controversial given anyone can fudge the data and upload without any scrutiny or checks.

There use to be an option to amend entries that were inappropriate, though this doesn't work.

A better method would be that (at least for high value items), the buyer or seller screenshots the transaction, submits that to Ravhin and a team of volunteers whom check it for legitimacy and then update the Wiki manually. Should anything seem extraordinary or unreasonable given an item's perceived value(refer back to baseline parameters above), then the submissions is declined.
This would mean that the tracker doesn't show a bunch of log entries (which are often inconsistent themselves) - rather it would show the price, which in time will get updated should there be a significant enough change and/or maybe on an agreed time such as monthly.

Why this wasn't arranged by the community prior I do not understand. We can have gatherings at hotel conference rooms about the raid scene, though nothing about the in-game economy (partly fueled and in large part saturated because of the raid scene).


What items I find over priced

As for my personal list...too many to name, however any high priced item going now, is likely four to forty times it's actual worth. Pretty much anything and everything shared by the others so far. And in my head, I cannot see any item really worth more than 100,000 with exception to a Manastone, and that is questionable given it is locked to pre Kunark areas for use.
The most flagrant example to me though is with Circlet of Shadow:


Prior to the nerf, it could be had for 2000-4000pp
Post nerf, people were trying their luck at 6000-7000pp
In 2018/2019 the price has risen to 30000-35000pp


Let's look at what it offers:

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/6/0/606aa83a96db4dfbd9183998c48aca3f.png



The weight is not significant
The class restriction limits it to two
Race is not a factor
Size is a factor
Deity is not a facotr
Instant click invisibility effect, that is not a charge and not a proc
Level Requirement is only on the effect
Item must be equipped to use effect
It is lore, though can be traded



Going by the parameters mentioned above, let's analyze:

Stats

Pure stats are respectable. 5AC and +10 to disease/poison is welcome for anyone. The mana is a small bonus.
However there are better stats on easier to obtain items.

On stats alone I would value it at around 200pp or less.

Rarity/Difficulty


There are plenty of these in circulation, pre and post nerf
The mob and difficulty in obtaining it were medium at best. Swish or someone whom spends time camping and soloing could rate it on a scale, however getting into Droga and breaking the camp with a 50+ char is pretty basic stuff.
The drop rate was certainly uncommon/rare though not very rare
It no longer drops
It is lore
It is not no trade/no drop
Does not require questing
Respawn time is roughly twenty minutes


From a collector standpoint, it not dropping anymore might give it more value, such as with a Ykeasha Mace.
From a use standpoint, it not dropping anymore does give it value IF the market was in short supply. At this stage there are so many in existence, there won't be enough new Shadow Knights and/or Necromancers joining Project 1999 that demand will outstrip supply.

The item was also fairly easy to obtain.

For that I give it no added value/price for rarity.

Utility/proc/click


Feature : Invisibility is helpful to anyone and everyone
Utility : Being able to cast it instantly saves you precious time and means you can do it while on the move/in motion
Use method : Instant click no proc
Charges : N/A has no limit on use


The real selling point here is the effect, which if not hindered by physical features it could be a legitimate 50k or higher item, yet as it is limited by class restriction and equipping to use, as well invisibility only works on living creatures (therefore not all mobs), I value the effect around 500pp maybe 1000pp.

Physical Restrictions

Class : Restricted to two
Must be equipped to use


This is as mentioned above, the thing that considerably lowers it's potential value as it is not an all/all or inventory click by all item.

No added value for this aspect.

Aesthetics

Always subjective, though not an item known for it's graphic, unlike Rubicite or Cultural armors.

No added value for this aspect.

Miscellaneous

Sometimes a hard parameter to define and qualify, though on this one it was quite obvious that when used in conjunction with Feign Death, you could achieve much greater success at managing mobs and avoiding failures/set backs.

It increased overall experience gaining efficiency as a result while also providing a safety net.

Due to this it's effect value would again, be very high.
Yet the first Feign had to be work, otherwise it was irrelevant. And this is not a guarantee, either.

However the big key, and if nothing else, this is the TL;DR about this particular item:
Feign Death and the Memblur mechanic was finally fixed and as a result, past level thirty-five, should you stand before a mob resets, you will likely have aggro and they'll see through invisibility.

Also, this item is not high in demand by any stretch and it's market value from an observed sense is not showing any logical patterns. The price rise seems to begin at an arbitrary point as opposed to what would be the logical one - slightly prior to or soon after the removal from the game world.
Yet in 2016, it's value was peaking at around 5-6000 even post removal.

Therefore, I can only add 2000pp at most for this miscellaneous aspect of it's utility given that mechanic update and it's popularity.


Conclusion


This item was not hard to acquire
The use is heavily class limited
The effect use is heavily class and physically limited
There are plenty in circulation
The underlying mechanic that gave the effect much of it's usefulness and as a result it's value, has been changed to the point it makes the effect a moot point under those circumstances
These are not high in demand


My total appraisal then : 2500pp (Stats : 500, Effect : 2000)






Contrasting against other like items on various parameters


For comparison by way of stats the Blackened Ally Coif:
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/0/8/08ffcd8938e5d20080cc9818b1e44662.png

Stats
This is a better item on pure stats, and is not that much easier to get. I will find you plenty of people that will prefer to camp a bodyguard, rather than Lord Pickclaw or wander around RunnyEye in their impatience trying to get Foeseeker and hope it drops.

The value of the item is roughly 400pp.
I find the stats are better from an overall approach, though would not argue provided someone found the Circlet of Shadow stats more suitable for their build and thus find the two items competitors for that market space.


And a comparison with different parameters for : Staff of the Dreaded Gaze (from Xalgoz)
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/9/3/93cc4f0e90f16f8ae68d2c6248f89f9b.png

Stats
To a low level they would be absolutely welcome yet at the same time, you can obtain many many other comparative hand held items or weapons with better stats for significantly less. For those with even a short supply of coin a Cone of the Mystics and Rokyls Channeling Crystal would be impressive. They are around 250 and 500pp respectively.

Rarity/Difficulty
Dropped by Xalgoz in Kaesora, a mob that is not difficult to reach, or to force to spawn. He is however a higher level mob than the bodyguard that dropped the Circlet of Shadow, and provided you let him self buff, able to put up an exceptional challenge to post 50 players when soloing on certain classes.

His difficulty rating therefore his higher than the Droga mob without question.
The drop rate for the item is another factor and possibly the biggest factor often over looked or unknown to many. From parses/logs and feedback from both Project 1999 and the original servers, the estimation is roughly :

One staff drops in ninety appearances by Xalgoz. Xalgoz has about a 1/3 or 1/4 chance to spawn on a thirty minute timer.
Quick math would have this that presuming he spawned twice in an hour, making that forty-five hours. Though many have confirmed one hundred or more hours to obtain the staff.

Utility/proc/click
At first glance the ability to click Fear seems quite useful. Given that most people can use the baseline Fear spell (instead of the upgraded ones) as it will land on mobs at even higher level, and that it would save you recasting what is a frequently used spell, you'd be hard pressed to find any fault.

Yet eight seconds is a fair amount of time, and you're not always fear kiting as a Necromancer, especially later on.

There is debate over whether it really is an effective click effect.
For myself I find it is, at least in contrast to others that exist.

And given that it is a click and not a proc, you have control over it completely.

Physical Restrictions
Class limited to one : Necromancer
Effect limited : Level 40
Equip limited : Must be equipped

Aesthetics
This might be the other factor that affects it's value the most. It has the Sarnak Skull at the head of a basic wooden straight staff. However it is not alone and there are other items with that look. It does not emit an aura or special colors/particle effects.

Miscellaneous
Nothing to add

The value of this item is currently 12,000 and that has been the case for quite some time - several years or more.
For myself, I can't justify at that amount. It's a single class, limited situation use, unremarkable stat based item that is not difficult to obtain, only time consuming.

I would appraise it 5500pp

In direct contrast to the Circle of Shadow, it's effect is more useful, it is more rare and more difficult to obtain and carries some aesthetics value.

All that tl;dr and you still failed to understand that this server has been around for going on a decade, was in Kunark for years, and now has been in Velious for years so mudflation is going to be sky high and for many of us a few hundred thousand platinum isn't really much at all so items with unique effects, no longer drop, or which are BIS (even if by marginal amounts) are going to carry a very premium price as so many people have more plat than they have things to spend it on. Double womp.

[Teppler]

hiero is a good item but it's definitely not value for the cash

u look at cloak of maelstorm/dire wolf hide cloak/hooded black cloak, all less than 1/10 of hiero cost but the stats are not 1/0

it's the same concept as heavy/peerless/matchless mantles with prices at 4000/12000/40000. 10 extra hp and mana for 28k more. the only reason i didn't list this item is because there are no other droppable melee items that give u much hp.

Hiero cloaks literally make the market. Maelstorm and stuff are like cheap chinese knock offs. When you look at what the stat difference costs in different gear, hiero is almost always a really great buy.

When you go from peerless to matchless lets say shoulders the difference is 30k. That's 1 AC and 10 hp and 10 mana. Now compare all the difference between hiero and the 1-2k cloaks. Hiero is an amazing value item.

[tycohunden]

Crown of Narandi.

[Nikkanu]

There is literally zero ways that wrist is best in slot for monks.

[Teppler]

There is literally zero ways that wrist is best in slot for monks.

If you want to proc a weapon, show me a better wrist item. Highest dex you’ll find for monk. Useful to other classes too.

[cornisthebest]

square helm

[elwing]

Crown of Narandi.

How so? It's BiS for non tanking role due to ft2...

[Alanus]

i would pay like 5k maaybe? 10k maybe? i dunno.

I thought BCG would drop significantly in price with all the other belt options in velious but it's still getting a decent asking price.

I think some of the SS MQs' sell for wayyyyyyyyy more than they're worth. You can get a Thurg version for like 500 plat to 10k max that a ton of classes/people can solo/duo or you can spend 20 times that for like +2stam, +4 hp and +2 MR on the skyshrine versions. these are also items/pieces that are farmed multiple days a week and pretty much any guild has the capacity to farm.

edit - i have a lot of alts and always end up cheaping out on upgrades to fund my next char rather than really pushing for BIS or droppable expensive items that may not have a true impact??

BCG is best in slot droppable belt for casters in most cases. It's also off a raid level mob. Well worth the price if you can afford it.

SS MQs are also near the best buyable in slot item (or BIS in some cases). When you realize they will always be (near) BIS and a lot of high-end players have been playing for a while, the extra 10-20k isn't all that much. Some POM armor is better, but also way more costly and annoying to attain.

Speaking as a druid, I have no idea how Maple Leaf Mask and Woven Cord of Mistletoe sell for as much as they do.

[Teppler]

Based on that logic, in some ways this wrist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sarnak_Bracer_of_Honor) is almost BiS for monk. If you want to get best vendor prices, show me a better wrist item. Highest cha you'll find for monk. Useful to other classes too.

What an awful argument. Does it even warrant a reply? Oh well.

There's certain melee situations where woven vine wristband will get you your results the fastest out of any other wrist pieces. That is why it is the BiS for certain situations.

Hypothetical- You're a monk with a proc weapon like t-staff and not tanking. Why wouldn't you use woven vine wristband, all other things equal?

You're referencing making plat off an item in a non melee situation.

[azeth]

Earth Staff for mage epic. 500k+ for just one part of the mage epic.

Definitely not overpriced. The mage epic is a class defining, game play revolutionizing item.

[Chapelle]

Definitely not overpriced. The mage epic is a class defining, game play revolutionizing item.

You could say the same about almost any other epic.

[cornisthebest]

cleric epic is best epic in the game and the entire mq is 1/10 of earth staff

[azeth]

You could say the same about almost any other epic.

Mage, cleric, nec, ranger, monk, shaman and bard i'd say are actually valuable in consideration of BIS equipment

[Cen]

You could say the same about almost any other epic.

No. Only bard and mage can and Cleric on a bad day. These weapons become the class and all that it is, and all you did before the epic was nothing. Mages become gods, and bards actually become a different actual class entirely.

Everyone else just gets to do shit like root rot forever or win Fashionquest with their epics.

[Teppler]

there's nothing wrong with gearing for a bit of dex for soloing with a tstaff, but wrist is not the slot to do it in.

there is literally nothing BiS about that wrist other than the fact that it's the highest DEX wrist item that monks can wear. why spend 28k when you can pick up a Sejah Ghulam Bracer (quested, free) and Hardened Clay Bracelet (800-1k)?

a hypothetical monk twink:
white wolf-hide girdle: +13
cloak of flames: +9
circlet of falinkan: +5
white lotus wrist wraps: +3 (+6) (assume no BoBs)
white lotus arm wraps: +7
twisted bone earring: +5
black pantherskin boots: +5
celestial fists: +10
white lotus pants: +4 (+5 if black pantherskin)
+6 neck: +6
black pantherskin shoulderpads: +4

+74 DEX without wasting 28k on a terrible, overpriced item

So you're buying stuff like Cloak of Flames for dex but woven vine wristband is too much?

+74 Dex isn't doing the best you could do with dex. Hence why the woven vine wristband is a BiS for proccing. Lot's of people pay premium to put themselves in position to be the best possible in every situation.

I never once said it's a great value item but it surely is the price that it is because it's the BiS for certain situations.

[solrokk]

Circlet of Shadow does not need to be equipped to use. Small discrepancy.

[deezy]

I believe woodsman's staff is extremely overpriced for what it does. While it's pretty okay at level 30, it scales very poorly past level 40. Jade mace + lammy is less than 2k and should equal or out-dps a woodsman's staff by around level 35-40.

I've seen several threads recently of people praising it, but when you actually parse the weapon it's not 4k good.

[zaneosak]

CoS.... but I am bias because I really want one. My main is a 58 cleric with like 10k in the bank. I made a necro and have gotten him to 54 with mostly charm leveling after 35 and have no CoS. It's doable but annoying and would love one, but I aint got that kind of plat to spend. Lol~

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

there's nothing wrong with gearing for a bit of dex for soloing with a tstaff, but wrist is not the slot to do it in.

there is literally nothing BiS about that wrist other than the fact that it's the highest DEX wrist item that monks can wear. why spend 28k when you can pick up a Sejah Ghulam Bracer (quested, free) and Hardened Clay Bracelet (800-1k)?

a hypothetical monk twink:
white wolf-hide girdle: +13
cloak of flames: +9
circlet of falinkan: +5
white lotus wrist wraps: +3 (+6) (assume no BoBs)
white lotus arm wraps: +7
twisted bone earring: +5
black pantherskin boots: +5
celestial fists: +10
white lotus pants: +4 (+5 if black pantherskin)
+6 neck: +6
black pantherskin shoulderpads: +4

+74 DEX without wasting 28k on a terrible, overpriced item

I agree that Wovin Vine Wristband is overpriced... The argument to make however is first and foremost most monks will reach max dex at later levels w/ buffs especially raiding monks regardless if you want to spend 30k on it or not, secondly that monks who's valued focus is to proc their weapon are a pain in the ass for the tank at all stages of the game, thirdly as you seem to have stated that an equally high dexterity can be achieved with much less plat, and fourthly to say something like its worth 30k because its a BiS wrist slot for monks who want enough dex to proc is making the argument that the wristband is worth what its worth because it meets a set of specific conditions, and applies to a very limited percentage of players in the game. You simply cannot give that much value to something for those reasons, period...

[radbeard]

I believe woodsman's staff is extremely overpriced for what it does. While it's pretty okay at level 30, it scales very poorly past level 40. Jade mace + lammy is less than 2k and should equal or out-dps a woodsman's staff by around level 35-40.

I've seen several threads recently of people praising it, but when you actually parse the weapon it's not 4k good.


I made a spreadsheet to compare things like this. Dual jade-maces are basically equal at lvl 49 to a woodsmans. I have some trouble comparing 2handers to 1handers only because this: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html is the table i've used for 2hander bonus damage. If thats accurate then so is what I just said.

However if you have a frostbringer + jade mace they achieve parity at lvl 40. Woodsman is basically BiS from lvls 30-40 without spending insanes amount of money, but is not economical after that. So I agree, 4k for 10 levels seems a bit too steep. A more reasonable value would probably be like 3k. There is certainly some value in being best in slot for ten levels.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

I made a spreadsheet to compare things like this. Dual jade-maces are basically equal at lvl 49 to a woodsmans. I have some trouble comparing 2handers to 1handers only because this: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html is the table i've used for 2hander bonus damage. If thats accurate then so is what I just said.

However if you have a frostbringer + jade mace they achieve parity at lvl 40. Woodsman is basically BiS from lvls 30-40 without spending insanes amount of money, but is not economical after that. So I agree, 4k for 10 levels seems a bit too steep. A more reasonable value would probably be like 3k. There is certainly some value in being best in slot for ten levels.

Interesting...

Could you maybe compare woodsman at 30-40 to duel wield twink weapons? maybe 12/20 hammer and 13/23 winter's fury? or 10/18 and 12/21 velium weapons? or even SoZ 11/18 and Edge of Nightwalker 14/25 ?

[radbeard]

Interesting...

Could you maybe compare woodsman at 30-40 to duel wield twink weapons? maybe 12/20 hammer and 13/23 winter's fury? or 10/18 and 12/21 velium weapons? or even SoZ 11/18 and Edge of Nightwalker 14/25 ?

That is a little bit of a pain to do because thats a lot of permutations, but i'll compare as though you were dual wielding a 12/20+14/25 at 31 and 40

Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 31: Woodsmans is ~2% better
Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 40: Woodsmans is ~6% worse
Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 49: Woodsmans is ~9% worse (this is assuming 200 weaponskill & dual wield skill)

Above level 50 the website I use assumes some pretty enormous bonus damage applied to 2handers and I suspect that isn't implemented on p99. My guess is that its basically accurate 1-50 and not accurate 51-60 (where for example it suggests the bonus damage on woodsman grows from 11 to 31). So thats the caveat. If anybody knows for sure wha the 2hander bonus damage table is like on P99 i'd love to see it.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

That is a little bit of a pain to do because thats a lot of permutations, but i'll compare as though you were dual wielding a 12/20+14/25 at 31 and 40

Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 31: Woodsmans is ~2% better
Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 40: Woodsmans is ~6% worse
Woodsmans vs 12/20 + 14/25 at 49: Woodsmans is ~9% worse (this is assuming 200 weaponskill & dual wield skill)

Above level 50 the website I use assumes some pretty enormous bonus damage applied to 2handers and I suspect that isn't implemented on p99. My guess is that its basically accurate 1-50 and not accurate 51-60 (where for example it suggests the bonus damage on woodsman grows from 11 to 31). So thats the caveat. If anybody knows for sure wha the 2hander bonus damage table is like on P99 i'd love to see it.

This is interesting man... thanks...

It's pretty much common knowledge to anyone who's researched the "what weapons should my ranger" use question that woodsman's staff is a must have at some point during leveling for its superior damage compared to DWing due to limited dmg bonus and duel wield skill caps. but its nice to have the comparisons (if they are in fact atleast close to being right) to show if I might still be reaching even with top notch 1 handers at those levels.

So... I understand its value as a weapon in those specific circumstances. But as it rises in price and gets closer to the average value of say an exquisite velium (insert 2 handed weapon here), i think it begins to reach what i'd consider being overpriced. If I could buy an exquisite velium claidhmore for 5k, or a woodsmans staff for 4k, i'd personally go with the velium weapon for its very slightly better ratio, its graphic and the fact that I would rather train in slashing than blunt. I wonder how a 32/36 compares to a 31/35, im sure the difference is negligible, but as I said i'd prefer an exquisite velium backscratcher to the staff.

[deezy]

I made parses from several years ago of a woodsman's staff vs a lammy + some forgettable offhand. The parse showed virtually no difference in dps at level 40.

Fortunately, a friend of mine is leveling a ranger. I'm going to buy them a woodsman's staff and collect parses from them to get some comparisons.

[deezy]

If anybody knows for sure wha the 2hander bonus damage table is like on P99 i'd love to see it.

Currently bonus damage on a 2-hander is exactly the same as a 1-hander in the primary hand. However, in a future patch (same patch as monk triple attack, etc.), 2-hander bonus damage will scale with delay. There are a few sweet spots on the table that get bonus damage spikes. But for the most part it scales relatively evenly.

[radbeard]

Currently bonus damage on a 2-hander is exactly the same as a 1-hander in the primary hand. However, in a future patch (same patch as monk triple attack, etc.), 2-hander bonus damage will scale with delay. There are a few sweet spots on the table that get bonus damage spikes. But for the most part it scales relatively evenly.

so its just 1 damage per 3 levels from 28 on? there is no bonus at all for 2handers onp99 currently?

[Teppler]

I agree that Wovin Vine Wristband is overpriced... The argument to make however is first and foremost most monks will reach max dex at later levels w/ buffs especially raiding monks regardless if you want to spend 30k on it or not, secondly that monks who's valued focus is to proc their weapon are a pain in the ass for the tank at all stages of the game, thirdly as you seem to have stated that an equally high dexterity can be achieved with much less plat, and fourthly to say something like its worth 30k because its a BiS wrist slot for monks who want enough dex to proc is making the argument that the wristband is worth what its worth because it meets a set of specific conditions, and applies to a very limited percentage of players in the game. You simply cannot give that much value to something for those reasons, period...

I use it on my shammy too when I want to score proc during solo situations. It's a great item for scoring procs.

There's quite a few situations where you might want a monk to proc. I duo with a monk at a camp where there is a lot of resists on slows. When the monk procs his weap, he generates good aggro which allows me to spam my slows and not have to wait.

There's definitely lots of situations where that extra dex will come in handy.

[Achromatic]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_scale

[deezy]

so its just 1 damage per 3 levels from 28 on? there is no bonus at all for 2handers onp99 currently?

Correct. But after the melee balance patch 2-handers will have a separate table that will vary widely depending on the delay. Monks with good 2-handers will kinda be getting double buffed on that patch and I'm very interested in seeing how their DPS will parse.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

There's definitely lots of situations where that extra dex will come in handy.

Ok... Fine... Ill be THAT guy. And keep in mind the following post is only regarding one of the issues I previously stated with your sentiment towards the godly Woven Vine Wristband. A sentiment that you seem to be really holding on to as if saying its overpriced is some sort of insult to you.

Wiki gives us a rough formula for determining how many procs youll achieve with your mainhand. here it is

(Dex/170) + 0.5 = procs per minute rate for main hand.

Lets say for the sake of argument we're going to compare if a monk was to equip a Woven Vine Wristband VS https://wiki.project1999.com/Shiverback-hide_Wristbands (and im going easy on you here, there are other choices to close this dexterity gap even more). There is a difference between 5 dexterity between these two items. So lets use the formula

Monk A has 170 dexterity with Shiverback Wrist equipped.

Monk B has 175 dexterity with Woven Vine Wristband equipped.

Using the formula we determine that:

Monk A has a (170/170 + 0.5 =) 1.5 chances to proc per minute

Monk B has a (175/170 +0.5 =) 1.529 chances to proc per minute.

The difference in chances to proc per minute between these two monks is .029 thousandths chances per minute.

And you're basing your entire argument off of the fact that the extra dex is good for proccing. Meaning. Your rich ass would pay 30,000 platinum for an extra .029 thousandths chance of proccing. I'm sure that make a big deal when your monk needs to hold aggro huh??

This doesnt even allude to the other ideas I presented earlier. Like I could definitely find that extra .029 thousandths of a chance to proc from other gear without spending 30k...

Or how monks who proc an extra .029 thousandths of a chance per minute are going to piss off the tank (now that i've done the math I guess that point may be moot).

Or how most monks who can afford something for 30k can already MAX out their Dex if not from buffs.

I mean do I really have to keep going here? C'mon man let go of this absurd fascination with this wristband

[Teppler]

If you haven't figured it out yet, doubling down on wrong (or stupid) is his M.O., apparently. You're wasting your time.

Wha?

You literally don’t understand the phrasing that different gear is BiS for different situations. Talk about doubling down....

Idk what math that guys doing but I notice a big difference when I stack dex vs when I don’t. When you get to a higher level with your gear, it’s a big deal for where you can squeeze out extra stats. I play with lots of different monks with all sorts of different high end gear and I definitely notice the difference between the types that have silver hide wristband gear vs woven vine wristband gear.

When you cheap out with a silver hide wristband now you’re sacrificing other stats as well. Woven vine wristband isn’t only for its dex but it also has great all around offensive stats.

Woven vine wristband has the 3rd best str/dex combo for any monk wrist item and it’s the only droppable in that range. Highest dex.

Compare that to cloak of confusion which is monks 3rd best back item and costs 55k. Not even tradeable/liquid. Also compare to a wrist guard of thunder which arguably doesn’t have as good offensive stats and goes for well over 100k.

Undervalue the item if you want but I think it’s rightfully near it’s 30k range considering how rare it is and how many classes could use it. Like I said, I use it on my shammy for proccing and I’m sure other classes can use it as well.

[Diogene]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_scale

Yeah was wondering also. Is warrior epic still a thing in velious? Anyone thinks lazer saber are worth 400k+ ?

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Yeah was wondering also. Is warrior epic still a thing in velious? Anyone thinks lazer saber are worth 400k+ ?

Yeah, epics are a thing. However i've noticed its super unlikely for a warrior to acquire their epic before 60, and even a fresh 60 is going to have to wait some-time to get that dragonscale. Is it overpriced? I dont know... It's definitely rare to come across one, and the dragons that drop them are highly contested. Sev is a priority target for one guild in particular, I believe said guild actually sets him as the first encounter during an earthquake, they tend to use a majority of their raid force for that particular dragon so i've noticed that their guild has a higher percentage of warriors with epic, however that comes with a price because they cater their raid force to more lower priority targets.

Hoshkar drops em too, but not everyone has their VP key, so those scales are limited to the guilds that can bring a large enough force into Veeshans Peak.

[Quizlop]

I just noticed that A Mithril Two-Handed Sword (http://wiki.project1999.com/Mithril_Two-Handed_Sword) is definitely not worth the prices that people are asking for it.

[Crede]

I just noticed that A Mithril Two-Handed Sword (http://wiki.project1999.com/Mithril_Two-Handed_Sword) is definitely not worth the prices that people are asking for it.

Legit pet weapon

[spoof2424]

Lodi's Belt.

Loot rights (and/or MQ) for the PlunderPatchEye.

Busted prices. Must boycott. Or find sugar momma to fund me.

this.

[Cen]

Is there a way the wiki can be fixed so prices aren't displayed this way? Like if one person sells an item, it only shows their latest price? I saw someone wanting 1k for this robe because of one prankster.

https://i.imgur.com/0uNo54d.png

[JayDee]

Yeah was wondering also. Is warrior epic still a thing in velious? Anyone thinks lazer saber are worth 400k+ ?

They can just spam clickies for aggro in raids. Yay unintended recharging

[Swish2]

Is there a way the wiki can be fixed so prices aren't displayed this way? Like if one person sells an item, it only shows their latest price? I saw someone wanting 1k for this robe because of one prankster.

https://i.imgur.com/0uNo54d.png

Fat cats manipulating prices, shits_classic.gif :/

[Sonorod]

Earth Staff for mage epic. 500k+ for just one part of the mage epic. Unless your a high end guild with trackers checking 24/7 forget about it. Even then certain guilds camp out hit squads against server rules and take magi out before you can even get to him. Still need just the earth staff. 3+ years now. Guess I'm a salty Mage too.....

Azyke/Striider

This!

[enjchanter]

I'm glad this thread got necro'd cuz I have new ones

Dead "Men" Floating -- this shouldnt be worth more than or equal to the price of Gift of Pure Thought. I'll pay 3k for this spell

Anklesmasher - not entirely sure what these are going for specifically but this is like a 10k item imo. Monk snare weapon is about the only real reason for this and other snare weapons go for less than 1k , but theres so many monks that I guess that's worth a price increase.

Preserved Chokidai Vocal Cords - 30k ? I dont even have words for that. Pun intended

Gangrenous Touch of Z'athuul or whatever -- marginally useful (not really) necro spell. Would pay 2k for cool name and rarity.

Dessicated Halfling Mask -- obviously not worth even 1p because it makes you the worst race

[Pint]

Anklesmasher - not entirely sure what these are going for specifically but this is like a 10k item imo. Monk snare weapon is about the only real reason for this and other snare weapons go for less than 1k , but theres so many monks that I guess that's worth a price increase.


Fwiw I've seen more spirit wracked cords drop then anklesmashers, maybe my luck's just off though. As for everything else it's just a pay the premium or farm it yourself situation.

[laskje]

I'm going to cast a vote for some of the 57+ spells that are absolutely stupid. Torpor being the single most ridiculously priced item in the game - everyone wants Torpor, yet, you insist on charging 80k for one? Where is the reasoning!? I don't have a shaman, but I damned sympathize with'em, and am more than happy to give it to the first shaman that would be grouped with me if it dropped.

[enjchanter]

I'm going to cast a vote for some of the 57+ spells that are absolutely stupid. Torpor being the single most ridiculously priced item in the game - everyone wants Torpor, yet, you insist on charging 80k for one? Where is the reasoning!? I don't have a shaman, but I damned sympathize with'em, and am more than happy to give it to the first shaman that would be grouped with me if it dropped.

Well to be fair , a torp shaman vs a regular shaman is the same as a epic mage vs a mage

It's like power increase so huge it's like playing a different class.

And to compound, everyone wants to play a shaman so the demand is there.

[Quizlop]

I'm going to cast a vote for some of the 57+ spells that are absolutely stupid. Torpor being the single most ridiculously priced item in the game - everyone wants Torpor, yet, you insist on charging 80k for one? Where is the reasoning!? I don't have a shaman, but I damned sympathize with'em, and am more than happy to give it to the first shaman that would be grouped with me if it dropped.

Really? That low? I remember when it was near 200k.

It may be the single most overpowered spell in the game, and everyone knows it. That's why they can afford to charge what they do.

[theonesler]

It's funny to watch people complain about prices. Yeah, some things are overpriced, but that's how markets work. It's not random and it's not just an individual instance. Things are priced for specific reasons and trends take many people, not just one.

Torpor for example. First off, it doesn't drop ALL the time, it takes some effort to actually get a copy of it, so the supply is lower. Secondly, there is a large abundance of 60 shamans on p99 (which I love as a melee, thank you shammies!) so the demand is high. Thirdly, as stated, it is a VERY OP spell that completely changes life as a shaman...

Part of why people sell things is because they want the profit... so people set prices according to what they think they can get within a reasonable amount of time. Want to move an item quickly? Set it below market average, sell quickly, and move on. Happy to tunnel quest for 4 days and want to see higher profits on single items? Set it above market average, wait, and find the right buyer.

People complain about prices on p99 all the time and I think it is absolute folly. To me, your complaints put you far below those who tunnel quest.

People pay what they are willing to pay. Not willing to pay the price, don't buy it or find a different seller. Move on. Stop whining.

[pasi]

Yeah was wondering also. Is warrior epic still a thing in velious? Anyone thinks lazer saber are worth 400k+ ?

With the change to proc individual threat/hate components being capped to 400 (unless stated otherwise), the red blade is very good (not that it was ever bad).

In addition, when the 2handed patch goes in, people will be very surprised at how good of hate per second the 2handed Epic becomes.

In terms of addressing the general thread:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Woven_Cord_of_Mistletoe is probably my pick for the most overpriced item. It's rare, sure. But at 80-85k, just buy a BCG. Chardok 2.0 also has Girdle of Rapidity for ~20k.

Consequently, I think http://wiki.project1999.com/Bone-Clasped_Girdle is one of the most underpriced items in today's market.

[Baylan295]

Really? That low? I remember when it was near 200k.

It may be the single most overpowered spell in the game, and everyone knows it. That's why they can afford to charge what they do.

The order of overpowered spells is this:

1) CH
2) Slow
3) Charm
4) Torpor

Don’t agree? Come fight me.

[Chapelle]

Well to be fair , a torp shaman vs a regular shaman is the same as a epic mage vs a mage

It's like power increase so huge it's like playing a different class.

And to compound, everyone wants to play a shaman so the demand is there.

So why doesn't Torpor sell for 800k?

[Alanus]

Fwiw I've seen more spirit wracked cords drop then anklesmashers, maybe my luck's just off though. As for everything else it's just a pay the premium or farm it yourself situation.

Isn't Spirit Wracked Cord just a quest?

[Oleris]

Isn't Spirit Wracked Cord just a quest?

rare drop as well.

[Alanus]

rare drop as well.

Off Queen, or anything?

EDIT: oh, right, off Grand Loremaster, same as the vocal cords

[Nirgon]

My vuhgynee hurts bad lower torpor price