Question About The Hole

[commongood]

Hey there. Would it be possible for a 60 shaman to solo his way from Master Yael spot into the Undead Tower and kill Ghost of Kindle? My knowledge of the zone is quite limited

[Hibbs]

Could it be done I'd prob say yes, but it sounds like a real pain in the ass... and pretty time consuming. I'd find some friends.

Just to get up that tunnel from Yael to the ghost tower you prob fight 2 Rats, 4 Golems, couple elementals.

Once you hit that stretch of undead that could easily be like 15 mobs to the top of the tower. couple ghosts in each pull.. Yuck.

[Freakish]

Invis where you can, Malo and root camp next to tower. Bring ivu pots. Ivu places. The trick is how much will see invis and whether you can camp your way up.

[Diogene]

For some reason I was able to jump down from paineel and take no damage. Lately I just died. Same happened to someone who was a regular soloer down there. Be careful

[Rygar]

Can I assume you will have a factioned enchanter ready to loot the item?

That being said, will definitely be tough. There is an area with 3 golems that will aggro together up near undead tower. Given that 60 torp shm are op, I am not terribly confident you'll get to root all 3. There is also a roaming elemental. If you somehow manage this and can ivu, be careful as there is a pathing golem from out of the tower. Camp out at yael ledge.

If you have FD ring, may be best to just DA idol past to ledge and FD. Potential for a lot of caster agro though.

After coming back ivu (remember to watch for the golem) and run up to kirn pool room. Scout a spot with a faction rogue where you hopefully only have to deal with one ghost.

Hardest thing is I don't think there is a safe spot, so getting a pet will be tough. Ghosts are super resistant, so may want to tank with a tash stick first before malo / slow.

If you succeed, rest is cake. Can cast on her to solo pull, others won't assist.

22:30 timer to fight as well, good luck.

[commongood]

Can I assume you will have a factioned enchanter ready to loot the item?

That being said, will definitely be tough. There is an area with 3 golems that will aggro together up near undead tower. Given that 60 torp shm are op, I am not terribly confident you'll get to root all 3. There is also a roaming elemental. If you somehow manage this and can ivu, be careful as there is a pathing golem from out of the tower. Camp out at yael ledge.

If you have FD ring, may be best to just DA idol past to ledge and FD. Potential for a lot of caster agro though.

After coming back ivu (remember to watch for the golem) and run up to kirn pool room. Scout a spot with a faction rogue where you hopefully only have to deal with one ghost.

Hardest thing is I don't think there is a safe spot, so getting a pet will be tough. Ghosts are super resistant, so may want to tank with a tash stick first before malo / slow.

If you succeed, rest is cake. Can cast on her to solo pull, others won't assist.

22:30 timer to fight as well, good luck.

Thanks for the advice (thanks to all that answered). I have a factioned chanter, yes - or rather, I'm not on brell deity but entrance mobs con dubious when I'm in earth elemental illusion + collaboration.

I'm having second thoughts about the shaman plan. I also have a 60 necro. I wonder if I'd be able to jump him down to Yael and then invis / ivu / solo my way towards undead tower and then pull Kindle out.

[Para99]

Since your Enchanter is factioned just do it on him it is super easy. You can invis past the roaming rat then ivu all the way to the stairwell on the top floor of the tower. There's 1 static spawn ghost in the corner before the door to the top floor you can most likely use as a pet, then crit lull pull Kindle from inside the stair well and it's a 1 v 1 fight with no chance of adds.

If the static single spawn ghost is one of the level 54 ones you cant use Boltrans on then there's a roamer in the stairs on the floor below iirc, also one right around the corner of the door that could also be used.

Worst case scenario you could use summoned pet to kill her if you wanted to kill the static spawn ghost first or keep it lulled or mezzed. Pretty sure some of the 54 ghosts are immune to mez similar to some of the rock golems but I never tried Rapture to confirm, the 54 ones will chain resist regular mez and Fascination though so it's best to root them if you have to fight one.

[commongood]

Since your Enchanter is factioned just do it on him it is super easy. You can invis past the roaming rat then ivu all the way to the stairwell on the top floor of the tower. There's 1 static spawn ghost in the corner before the door to the top floor you can most likely use as a pet, then crit lull pull Kindle from inside the stair well and it's a 1 v 1 fight with no chance of adds.

If the static single spawn ghost is one of the level 54 ones you cant use Boltrans on then there's a roamer in the stairs on the floor below iirc, also one right around the corner of the door that could also be used.

Worst case scenario you could use summoned pet to kill her if you wanted to kill the static spawn ghost first or keep it lulled or mezzed. Pretty sure some of the 54 ghosts are immune to mez similar to some of the rock golems but I never tried Rapture to confirm, the 54 ones will chain resist regular mez and Fascination though so it's best to root them if you have to fight one.

Hey that sounds pretty good. The issue is that my chanter is only level 55 so I worry about getting stomped.

Assuming my necro can get to the Master Yael spot wouldn’t he be able basically use the same strategy that you describe? Or will he have to fight too many live mobs?

[branamil]

Kindle is very easy. You can get to her as an ench with a combination of Calm, Invis, and IvU. Necro could probably easily get there as well. I don't know why you'd want to bring a shaman when others can get there so easily. You don't have to kill anything besides her so you won't ruin hole faction. There is one ghost guarding her room that you probably can't avoid besides Calm. But if you pull her out of the room and into the stairs you came up, nothing paths there. Just don't go too far down and you won't aggro the ghost on the lower floor. Also root her at the end because she flees. Your 55 animation easily takes her down with slow+haste. Nothing is that suitable to charm near her.

[Para99]

Hey that sounds pretty good. The issue is that my chanter is only level 55 so I worry about getting stomped.

Assuming my necro can get to the Master Yael spot wouldn’t he be able basically use the same strategy that you describe? Or will he have to fight too many live mobs?

Have you killed Hole mobs on your necro before? If you haven't I think Ball of Golem Clay illusion from CT and an alliance neck can get you to dubious with the mobs with faction, just not rats/undead/etc. Memory is kind of hazy on that so I may be wrong, but the potion is like 100pp if you can find one and if you have the neck or access to one it'd be worth trying at the zone in before you try dropping into Yael area.

But yes if you can get to the tower you could easily kill her in the stairs either charming the stair spawn or by killing the stair spawn then her with necro pet.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

If you can attempt an FPS drop into the hole from Paineel it might make your journey that much easier. However ghosts are a pain in the ass, they hit hard, they can take a hit (big hp pool), they have high resists, and in a lot of ghost encounters youll end up with more than one. I suggest bringing the Shaman FD ring with you, or acquiring it. Also some ghosts are SKs and will harmtouch so be aware of that. If you can bring down a tank or a monk with you i'd say its doable, otherwise risking it means dying in hole. Which isnt so bad if you die before the drop off, but you're adventure takes you into the deepest darkest depths of hole, so you may have to have a necro friend ready to summon that corpse.

Also if you dont know the way out through the closed door at bottom of hole pit, definitely research it and learn how to meander your way through that door, it's the best escape route out of hole, a really beneficial oh shit button. It takes you back to the top but saves you an obnoxious corpse run. I remember once when I was retrieving a friends corpse from hole on a non-FD class and I had to bring it to docks from the fountain room. I got SoWed outside, fought my way to castle entrance and ran like hell with a macro to pick up his corpse. I ran all the way to docks with a mighty train behind me, I dived at the top of the waterfall into the pool below, swam out, and because I had practiced the door maneuver many times over, I got through on my first attempt and made it out with a few scratches... Hole is an awesome zone, and even awesomer because of all the various hidden exits.

The door at the bottom of the pit was actually designed to be a raid zone into the "plane of the underfoot", it's really interesting lore if you read about it. Fortunately, because of the design it just so happens that any player can make their way through the door and the zone behind it leads you back to the top of hole, instead of zoning you into a never completed raid instance.

[Rygar]

If you can attempt an FPS drop into the hole from Paineel it might make your journey that much easier. However ghosts are a pain in the ass, they hit hard, they can take a hit (big hp pool), they have high resists, and in a lot of ghost encounters youll end up with more than one. I suggest bringing the Shaman FD ring with you, or acquiring it. Also some ghosts are SKs and will harmtouch so be aware of that. If you can bring down a tank or a monk with you i'd say its doable, otherwise risking it means dying in hole. Which isnt so bad if you die before the drop off, but you're adventure takes you into the deepest darkest depths of hole, so you may have to have a necro friend ready to summon that corpse.

Also if you dont know the way out through the closed door at bottom of hole pit, definitely research it and learn how to meander your way through that door, it's the best escape route out of hole, a really beneficial oh shit button. It takes you back to the top but saves you an obnoxious corpse run.

Hole is easiest CR ever, just make a level 1 halfling brell worshipping rogue, bind by boulder to Hole... easy. You can consent your own body to them for self drag out. Cake.

[commongood]

Woop woop got this done tonight thanks to a very friendly group in the undead graveyard. I ended up bringing my necro to do the killing. Suiciding both him and my chanter down the drop. I know I should have harmshielded on necro but forgot and was under the impression I would survive.

Made a lvl Brell-whorshipping halfling rogue and went and dragged both to this group whose cleric rezzed me.

Once recovered on necro I IvU myself and found Kindle and pulled her outside to where the group was clearing the gy using the crit lull resist trick and root-rotted her down. Switched over to chanter and looted.

Thanks for all the input here. Epic done!

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

Hole is easiest CR ever, just make a level 1 halfling brell worshipping rogue, bind by boulder to Hole... easy. You can consent your own body to them for self drag out. Cake.

uhh. Drag "out"... I know youre a self proclaimed hole-lover but you should know more than anyone that dragging in hole leads you to two abrupt halts. The waterfall, and the first drop down. Most rezzers (if there are any available, which there arent during most play times) are only going to rez you at entrance (from my experience) so its not as easy as 1 2 click drag rez...

[Rygar]

You just drag to the drop off, suicide your level 1 to get back above, then drag body rest of way to entrance.

Extra points for leveling a toon with gate and binding above ledge for full drag with no suicide (enchanter will do the trick.. invisible + ivu).

Your mind may now be blown.

Edit: waterfall is no big deal, z axis is ignored and can drag it up to docks then to ent. Or just walk the entire zone.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

You just drag to the drop off, suicide your level 1 to get back above, then drag body rest of way to entrance.

Extra points for leveling a toon with gate and binding above ledge for full drag with no suicide (enchanter will do the trick.. invisible + ivu).

Your mind may now be blown.

Edit: waterfall is no big deal, z axis is ignored and can drag it up to docks then to ent. Or just walk the entire zone.

You havent spoken of anything I didnt already know. Hole is one of my favorite zones, I know it like the back of my hand and know every which way to get out, as a corpse or alive.

The point here is, Hole is a pain in the ass to die in as I stated earlier. You pointed out as the cavalier king of the hole himself, that it certainly was not! You then began to explain that through various means, and courses of action, it's simple to retrieve your corpse in hole.

But the processes for doing so are pretty much only unique to the zone, such as calling for someone to have to actually log out, create a halfling character under brell-serilis, get your new lvl 1 char to another continent, buy them a key, run them through hole to designated player's corpse (im also pretty sure Brell-serilis only factions you with elementals, and there are various other mobs down there that you can aggro and will nearly instantly kiil you, (I could be wrong though). Then continue to drag said corpse to either the waterfall (if corpse has past it), or the first drop down (if corpse has past it). Then call upon another player or "suicide yourself" and magically appear "back above" or log back in on another character of yours, to drag this unfortunate corpse to entrance, or from waterfall to the drop down where you will repeat the previous step again.

This is of course assuming you have a rezzer. Hell its even a hassle if they are inclined to meet you somewhere half way in the zone, which rarely happens because in my experience not a lot of folks will stick their neck out for you in hole, but mostly due to the fact that its not a very popular zone. And you're telling me this is just as easy as any old corpse run? Easier than bugging a necro friend to come along with you or atleast notifying them that you may be dying in hole while attempting to solo through the undead area?? Even without a necro there are several process' that would come easier than your aforementioned idea. Im also pretty sure you cant bind "above ledge". Could be wrong there though, atleast most classes can't. man you're assuming a hell of a lot here...

You havent blown my mind, i'm actually ever so slightly closer to having a stroke now.

[commongood]

“Knows zone like the back of his hand”

“Doesn’t know which mobs are on brell faction”

But kidding aside I think you’re probably both right to an extent. I mean creating a level 1 rogue and getting him to Odus and bound didn’t take me more than 30 mins yesterday. You also don’t need the key as you can wedge through the rock in the pool. You can drag to entrance, it’s just tedious. Drag up to drop off, suicide, run down and drag up.

Having said that. It’s a pain in the ass compared to dying in more populated and easy-to-access dungeons.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

“Knows zone like the back of his hand”

“Doesn’t know which mobs are on brell faction”

But kidding aside I think you’re probably both right to an extent. I mean creating a level 1 rogue and getting him to Odus and bound didn’t take me more than 30 mins yesterday. You also don’t need the key as you can wedge through the rock in the pool. You can drag to entrance, it’s just tedious. Drag up to drop off, suicide, run down and drag up.

Having said that. It’s a pain in the ass compared to dying in more populated and easy-to-access dungeons.

Everytime i've died in hole i've had no reason to drag my corpse with any other char but myself. I knew the halfling rogue technique was a thing, I never tried it. have never played a halfling, nor do I plan to. If it takes 30 minutes, that's still 30 minutes added to a corpse run, coupled with other unforeseen issues that can arise from using a level 1 for anything. I mean what is there to argue here? IS there anywhere else in Norrath where some folks think its necessary to create an entire new character in order to retrieve a potential corpse? Point is, halfling or not, its just a more complicated process of getting your corpse, and the fact that its just not a popular area compounds the sentiment.

knowing various exits helps in any case. After getting to know the zone death became virtually non existent, excluding a few times when a pet class in group would aggro the golems in the fountain room on the way to a particular camp.

But honestly none of this matters after I found a particular spot in the city where you can have aggro and be out of line of sight of mobs, and even with the most massive of trains you can camp out. Its actually quite game breaking and saved my groups life once after a silly train. After learning the zone I just never understood why that place isn't packed to the brim at all times. With the right dynamics. camp choice and some knowledge, exp gains there are the best in game (In my experience). And its just a fun zone.

[Para99]

Thanks for all the input here. Epic done!

Congrats man. Did you crit Kindle from out in the graveyard or were you inside and pulled her out? I think it could be done in the right spot in the graveyard but I never got around to trying it.

IS there anywhere else in Norrath where some folks think its necessary to create an entire new character in order to retrieve a potential corpse? Point is, halfling or not, its just a more complicated process of getting your corpse, and the fact that its just not a popular area compounds the sentiment.


SG is good to have a corpse toon and HS is good to have a key toon for CRs. If you have a friend ready to port you to Tox and bind you in Paineel it's more like a 10 minute time investment and you only have to do it once. You can use the level 1 for the non-factioned areas too since they have hide/sneak. I think The Hole is one of the easier dungeon CRs since there is no risk to the toon you died on.

[Rygar]

Waaaah, a high level dungeon has a feature to let me drag my body to zone in risk free... but it's inconvenient! I want an npc i can hail for instant 100% rez!

Yea, WoW is where it's at.

[commongood]

Congrats man. Did you crit Kindle from out in the graveyard or were you inside and pulled her out? I think it could be done in the right spot in the graveyard but I never got around to trying it.


Yeah was in graveyard on the right hand side. Worked like a charm

[wagorf]

since we alrdy have the zone experts in thread, i wanna ask a totally unrelated question

can a 59 monk go in and explore to its deepest and solo random stuff for xp? he's no raid gear but solid twink epic fungi full ss cof etc. im also totally unfamiliar with the zone

[Swish2]

Yes but the XP rate at 59 is going to be slow honestly on top of it being the worst hell level...you'll figure out how to get out but I'd take some kind of item to get out in case you need to leave or just have had enough :p (leatherfoot raider skullcap, or some kind of gate potion).

Personally I'd rather solo KC mobs than do Hole mobs at 59 (which is saying something :p )

[wagorf]

thanks, just hate to go in there and not be able to single anything, or die easy from casters or crazy mobs

[Rygar]

You can do fine, I did 100% of 59 in the Hole. I did elementals, but i think my buddy zentile did rats (you may need DS pots to speed things up, think he did).

Keep in mind, once Haynar codes in proper spell interruption (i.e. no more pushing to interrupt) then the cleric mobs are going to suck.

Swish is right that solo 59 on elementals is slow, I just enjoyed having a camp where I was never interrupted and had it to myself. I need to frequently afk too so grouping wasn't an option.

Edit: you will need to go deeper, ent mobs will be green.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

thanks, just hate to go in there and not be able to single anything, or die easy from casters or crazy mobs

There are areas you can get to easily as a monk where most of your mob choices are elementals, lowest/classic HP and mostly blue to a 59, for soloing, these are the mobs you want. Avoid all rock golems, ghosts, and even rats, they have significantly higher HP and dmg caps, and are higher in level. However after you get past the top floor which is mostly comprised of green cons you will find that there are increasing amounts of elemental casters. Some of these complete heal, some are wizards who like to grav flux/root/nuke and such. Most of the higher lvl elementals are as follows: Elemental Wizards, Capturers (rogues), and elemental harvesters/channelers (complete heal). After a certain point you stop seeing the channelers. Capturers are higher level Deceivers, Harvesters higher level channelers. harvesters complete heal so be ready to time your stuns, and also they love to run (all elementals).

As I stated before there is a spot in hole next to a certain camp that allows you to stand and sit out of line of sight of mobs that have even aggro'd you. This gives you the opportunity to camp out and reset the aggro table. However with FD that point is kind of moot. Its a dangerous zone for soloing because if you make the tiniest mistake and dont know your camp/spawn points/wandering mobs you can easily eat it. Especially considering the amount of casters and the potential for you to face a cast after a feign death. Find yourself a shaman or a cleric/ench, get the ench a rogue pet, find a nice spot, learn the camp. A duo/trio will be particularly more rewarding and less risk than if you were to attempt to solo. I personally would not solo in hole.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

thanks, just hate to go in there and not be able to single anything, or die easy from casters or crazy mobs

If you end up soloing there I would advise doing town entrance/some of the town. I was able to solo there from at least 55-60 and still get decent exp. Avoiding the 2 golems and the ghost there, the worst you have to worry about is the ratman warrior pather.

Check out Rygar's guide if you haven't already! :D

[Dillusional]

I don't know about shaman but a poorly geared level 60 enchanter can pull ghost of kindle out of the castle and solo it elsewhere in the zone. That's what i did for my epic. Earth elemental illusion + collaboration allows you to be non-kos to the living, if you haven't killed in the hole. Combine that with invisibility versus undead and you are non-kos/invis to everything. Nothing social agroes with kindle..... you can lull the other mobs in the room, rapture kindle, ivu yourself and just run out of the castle to anywhere in the zone and kindle will show up behind you solo at some point.....I think i killed kindle next to a pond using some golems ...

[Swish2]

I don't know about shaman but a poorly geared level 60 enchanter can pull ghost of kindle out of the castle and solo it elsewhere in the zone. That's what i did for my epic. Earth elemental illusion + collaboration allows you to be non-kos to the living, if you haven't killed in the hole. Combine that with invisibility versus undead and you are non-kos/invis to everything. Nothing social agroes with kindle..... you can lull the other mobs in the room, rapture kindle, ivu yourself and just run out of the castle to anywhere in the zone and kindle will show up behind you solo at some point.....I think i killed kindle next to a pond using some golems ...

Smart ^^

https://i.imgur.com/uyanU4V.gif

[commongood]

I don't know about shaman but a poorly geared level 60 enchanter can pull ghost of kindle out of the castle and solo it elsewhere in the zone. That's what i did for my epic. Earth elemental illusion + collaboration allows you to be non-kos to the living, if you haven't killed in the hole. Combine that with invisibility versus undead and you are non-kos/invis to everything. Nothing social agroes with kindle..... you can lull the other mobs in the room, rapture kindle, ivu yourself and just run out of the castle to anywhere in the zone and kindle will show up behind you solo at some point.....I think i killed kindle next to a pond using some golems ...

Yeah. Pretty huge boon to not have killed in The Hole for this reason as a chanter. FWIW I must have killed around, umm, 5-7 mobs at entrance before I knew about this and I was still, as an agnostic dark elf, able to become non-kos with illusion + Collaboration.

The Ratmen, btw, are KOS and you need regular invis for those. There aren't many of them from what I can tell on wiki but yeah, be aware :)