Paladin hate

[Zubek]

Why so much hate against paladin tanks? I know that warriors are kings of tanking raid content and rightfully so. But I read a lot of negative towards paladin vs warrior/SK tanking. I have a 19 pally as my main right now and I would think the buffs and lay on hands would be welcome along with snap agro. I know LoH has already saved a few CRs for people I've grouped with.
I guess I just dont understand the major downside.

[Salty]

Most paladins slack hard

[Pyrocat]

I've found the opposite to be true. Pallys and SKs can hold a ton of aggro (and have other utility) in groups way better than warriors can. Once you get to the raid scene though, warriors have more pure AC/HP and thus are king for CH rotations. I've found pallies and SKs to be equally desired in groups though. Maybe you're running into the hybrid exp penalty stigma?

[guineapig]

I always enjoy having a paladin in the group. Stuns can be huge versus all the casting and gating mobs in Kunark, lay hands is an amazing emergency button and if by some twist of fate your cleric dies somehow and be bound on another continent, you have at least some form of rez if getting another cleric to your camp would take forever. Also, although it's not 100% effective, haveing a tank that can split a camp all by himself if he has to (with lull) is pretty badass.

[Hobby]

Paladins are fucking amazing...I played something different during my time as a player here, and I regretted it constantly. That's why I'm a paladin now :p

[Shannacore]

I have a paladin alt. She rules! So fun to play.

[Hobby]

says Shanasauraus-Rex...

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Feign death is for wimps and LoH > HT

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Paladin hate

Read the title, and figured I would let you know, paladin armor doesn't drop in hate.

[karsten]

paladins can generate lots of hate with blind and stuns!


this PSA brought to you by your friendly PALadin, big karsten

[Shannacore]

says Shanasauraus-Rex...

Spelled my name wrong

[Zigfreed]

Hey The Overlord, play and post or don't play and don't post. Choose one. Damn alcohol it makes me post meanly :(

[Zubek]

Ok, thank you all for the encouragement. I wasn't going to give up on the pally but I just didn't understand why everyone thinks they are second rate tanks. Plus if Hobby plays one then who can say they are bad!

I am LFG often so it's nice to be able to solo to an extent or break my own camps if needed. And if so few people play them then I guess there won't be much competition at the higher end game for pally gear!

[Rhambuk]

I played a rogue on live and there was NOTHING I hated more than paladins, Fucking Nothing.

All they do is spam stun, so when I steal agro from backstabbing and the mob faces me they stun the shit out of it while its facing me making positioning really annoying.

Then they got the stun that had the pushback effect, so when the mob was facing them they would knock the shit out of it and every spellcast would knock the mob Through me so 3 or 4 times a fight the mob would teleport behind me as im trying to bs it.

then the brells, OOHHH THE BRELLS! Every god damn raid I would have to get about 12 copies of ranger buffs because every 2 minutes some asshole paladin would hit me with brells.

Then they all have that I'm the master of the universe ego...

A lot of these stun issues may not apply on p99 yet, but my lifelong hatred remains.

To Hell with your damn paladins!

[Hobby]

Sounds like someone is a lazy ass who cant tell a paladin to not buff them, and would rather AFK autoattacking while watching tv and occasionally hitting the 4 key to backstab.

What paladin is buffing on raids without getting tells anyways? Probablly the guy who fails at his job just as bad as your rogue.





I can make hate posts as well!

[Lagaidh]

I've found the opposite to be true.

Same here. It's quite the opposite from my time in live. I literally turn down offers to group every single time I have a play session longer than an hour.

Usually, if a given player is "class X", and they find trouble grouping, it's usually the player's reputation and not their class.

There will always be players that are unaware they've trashed their playing reputation and then look for any reason but themselves as to why groups are hard to find... It's an old story in Norrath.

And, in instances where you do find prejudice against a class from some players... well, it's always been my opinion that those players are just ignorant. It's the player that's good or sucks, never the class (outside of what the game requires... healer, tank, dps).

[Zubek]

Oh I don't have any problems getting groups. But almost every time someone says something about how bad other pally tanks have been. I usually get compliments. I'm talking more about the hate I read on the forums, and the fact that the class has a lower population than most other classes.

[xshayla701]

SK>Pally because Dark Elves can't be Paladins.

[Aarone]

SK>Pally because Dark Elves can't be Paladins.

Pally > SK because Dwarf Barrel Roll > All :D

[Flavor]

I have a paladin alt. She rules! So fun to play.

quidado amingos, this thread is now about Tralina.

[xshayla701]

quidado amingos, this thread is now about Tralina.

Who?

[Mardur]

Paladins are my favorite tank in classic.

Unfortunately it's Kunark now and the reign of the Warrior.

[Mardur]

Paladins get good again in Luclin, only 10 years away!

[Ennoia]

Why so much hate against paladin tanks? I know that warriors are kings of tanking raid content and rightfully so. But I read a lot of negative towards paladin vs warrior/SK tanking. I have a 19 pally as my main right now and I would think the buffs and lay on hands would be welcome along with snap agro. I know LoH has already saved a few CRs for people I've grouped with.
I guess I just dont understand the major downside.

Part of it is because people are recalling things from later on in the game that may not apply yet. A Paladin's main source of aggro is their stuns. Later on in the EQ on a lot of mobs (mostly in Velious), aren't having any of that and cannot be stunned, even partially. The SK can land a partial effect on their snare, and they still have Disease Cloud, plus constant procs going off.

Self Healing is another big issue. A Paladin needs to target himself, cast a spell, then retarget the mob (group heals mitigate this a bit, but anything substantial is going to be single target). This mean either they are missing out on valuable seconds of added DPS/Aggro, or the healer is compensating for the lack of self healing if the Paladin is not doing it himself. Shadowknights lifetap. GG.

Paladins also can't pull as effectively as an SK, meaning a group spot needs to be given up to a dedicated puller. A lot of times it isn't an issue, but if you're running a healer and a bunch of casters.

There are a few threads on knight comparison on www.EvilGamer.net, most likely in the Class Balance section, but I just got home from a camping trip so if you really want the info you're going to have to find it yourself.

[Ennoia]

Sounds like someone is a lazy ass who cant tell a paladin to not buff them, and would rather AFK autoattacking while watching tv and occasionally hitting the 4 key to backstab.

What paladin is buffing on raids without getting tells anyways? Probablly the guy who fails at his job just as bad as your rogue.





I can make hate posts as well!

If you look at the EQLive Paladin forums, you will see the majority of them really are so stupid and clueless about the game that you will wonder how they made it to raid level. It's always been like that with the Paladin community. There have been a few good ones on live (Mustadio, Rabide...I actually think that was it) but the majority of Paladins are just terrible.

[Rhambuk]

Sounds like someone is a lazy ass who cant tell a paladin to not buff them, and would rather AFK autoattacking while watching tv and occasionally hitting the 4 key to backstab.

What paladin is buffing on raids without getting tells anyways? Probablly the guy who fails at his job just as bad as your rogue.





I can make hate posts as well!

Negative son! Every paladin I told to not buff me would just buff me more they loved making me click it off every 10 minutes (blame the player not the class? Bullshit!)

and I thought paladins were the only class that could afk with their easymode aggro :p

Much love for hobby though! =/

[Hobby]

<3 Those who know how to play a paladin are those who are the most revered.



Except, due to WoW...paladins are considered the easy class thus attracting dumbass kids.

Ah well.

[Rhambuk]

<3 Those who know how to play a paladin are those who are the most revered.



Except, due to WoW...paladins are considered the easy class thus attracting dumbass kids.

Ah well.

But they all have cool names like

Arrthas
Arthass
Arthiss
Arthess
Arthadin
...
.....

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

No one mentioned that root agro > stun/blind until like 48+. Rogues have a right to be pissed if the mob is bouncing all over before that level range.

[Hithrohir]

One of the biggest issues throughout general gameplay is that paladin stuns have a cooldown and cost a good deal more mana whereas a shadowknight can just spam disease cloud (or clinging darkness if so inclined). Flash of light works for aggro in the lower levels, but it doesn't generate as much threat, it just affects who the mob will target for the duration of the spell. This means later on when mobs resist a lot, it'll become less reliable for aggro. So, when a paladin has to rely on mana-heavy stuns, they have to have clarity. If they can't get that, they can't tank without downtime. If they have to pull as well, spending mana on pacify and getting in less medding time, it becomes a problem.

Paladins also do terrible damage. Their utility is better than a shadowknight, but the latter can put out reasonable damage for a tank if they have clarity or mana song. In trivial content where the group just grinds dark blues with no real chance of dying, a shadowknight makes the killing go a little faster. This is usually not enough to make most people specifically pick an SK over a PAL, but it can be a factor.

[Hobby]

Clearly, paladins are the prime off-tank / MA rather than MT.

When i played a paladin, i never maintanked on raids...warriors or sk's did, however I was extremely desired as a MA or OT.


Outside raids, mobs die 30x faster... paladins are just as preferred as a tank as warrior or sk's during non-raid situations. But paladins as a MT are just kinda gimped for MT'ing.

[odizzido]

Paladins are great. I have a SK and I do have some class envy with LoH being so much better than HT and being able to keep mobs on them easily when breaking mez. Plus root for CC.

Of course if I were a pally I would have some class envy as well because FD and snare are great to have as well. Also SK DPS is higher than pally DPS.

Both are great classes. No hate here.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

One of the biggest issues throughout general gameplay is that paladin stuns have a cooldown and cost a good deal more mana whereas a shadowknight can just spam disease cloud (or clinging darkness if so inclined). Flash of light works for aggro in the lower levels, but it doesn't generate as much threat, it just affects who the mob will target for the duration of the spell. This means later on when mobs resist a lot, it'll become less reliable for aggro. So, when a paladin has to rely on mana-heavy stuns, they have to have clarity. If they can't get that, they can't tank without downtime.
No one mentioned that root agro > stun/blind until like 48+.
In trivial content where the group just grinds dark blues with no real chance of dying
This should never happen, pull faster.

[Jaleth]

Well when I joined and played in the early days of EQ, not as early as many here, but just after the release of Velious (still my favorite time era from Norrath); I had chosen a human paladin. This was because of my first stint with playing a paladin in D&D pnp.
That being said I loved playing the heroic knight in shining armor. But I also dedicated myself to his growth. I had tells from healers and dps'ers that said literally . . ."I love you".
When I gained agro, no one could take it away. I was able to split pulls, cycle through all mob content gain their hate and switch back to the main mob before it died.
If we didn't have an enchanter or bard to mez, I would pull all mobs off to the side, root and head back to the main fight.
It all depends on player skill. I even had a time when PoP was a good year into its campaign and LDoN came out. We were doing a mistmoore dungeons crawl and an enchanter from a Time geared guild (when my guild was still in BoT), told me I was an incredible tank. She said she had tanks in her guild that were vastly superior to me in gear, but my skills at tanking in groups were heads and shoulders above theirs.
Again I am sorry for those that had bad experiences with paladins in groups, but it really is not the class, its the player a good 99% of the time.

Maleck Sterling of Ayonae Ro

[Thoughtseize]

But I also dedicated myself to his growth. I had tells from healers and dps'ers that said literally . . ."I love you".
When I gained agro, no one could take it away. I was able to split pulls, cycle through all mob content gain their hate and switch back to the main mob before it died.

It all depends on player skill. I even had a time when PoP was a good year into its campaign and LDoN came out. We were doing a mistmoore dungeons crawl and an enchanter from a Time geared guild (when my guild was still in BoT), told me I was an incredible tank. She said she had tanks in her guild that were vastly superior to me in gear, but my skills at tanking in groups were heads and shoulders above theirs.
Again I am sorry for those that had bad experiences with paladins in groups, but it really is not the class, its the player a good 99% of the time.

Maleck Sterling of Ayonae Ro

First forum post delivers

[Quasimojo]

I played a rogue on live and there was NOTHING I hated more than paladins, Fucking Nothing.

All they do is spam stun, so when I steal agro from backstabbing and the mob faces me they stun the shit out of it while its facing me making positioning really annoying.

You can't resist spamming that BS key for the 2-3 seconds the mob is facing you?

Then they got the stun that had the pushback effect, so when the mob was facing them they would knock the shit out of it and every spellcast would knock the mob Through me so 3 or 4 times a fight the mob would teleport behind me as im trying to bs it.

This one I find kind of funny. I'm surprised at how many people think the outer limit of melee range is right up a mob's butt. Back up a bit, and keep the mob in front of you after a stun.

then the brells, OOHHH THE BRELLS! Every god damn raid I would have to get about 12 copies of ranger buffs because every 2 minutes some asshole paladin would hit me with brells.

Every paladin I told to not buff me would just buff me more they loved making me click it off every 10 minutes (blame the player not the class? Bullshit!)

This is beginning to sound more like personal problem. I can only think of one reason why I would continually buff someone who has asked me not to do so.

[Rhambuk]

stop backstabbing, okay. back out of melee range, Got it!

Everyone loves those max hp rogues throwing knives for 12dmg a pop.

Seriously though its more than annoying when you ask a tank to do something simple and they just ignore it because they have that im the man im kicking ass attitude that all tanks seem to have.

[Maurk]

Rhambuk sounds like he still has blisters up his bumhole from the flaming sword of win.
Group with me sometime, ill show you exactly why Paladins own!

[Maurk]

Also SK DPS is higher than pally DPS.

Not really.. I seem to out dps just bout every SK I know

[Fourthmeal]

haters gonna hate

[Mcbard]

Not really.. I seem to out dps just bout every SK I know

Flaming swords aren't fair.

[Jaleth]

stop backstabbing, okay. back out of melee range, Got it!

Everyone loves those max hp rogues throwing knives for 12dmg a pop.

Seriously though its more than annoying when you ask a tank to do something simple and they just ignore it because they have that im the man im kicking ass attitude that all tanks seem to have.

I wouldn't say I ever had that attitude. In fact I always felt I could've done better. If for whatever reason a mob's attention was pulled away briefly (hardly happened) I would apologize and focus even harder. I took my role seriously.

When we had a puller or myself bring a mob back to a camp, I would turn and face the mob's back to the rogue and waiting party, or hell even a mage's air elemental. If I knew BS'ers were in the party, I would make them do less of the work in getting around on the mob to bury their weapon in the beasty's back.