Zone overpopulation

[Drathen]

Is there any plans on dealing with the surge in players and the resulting overpopulation of zones?
U think a simple solution would be to crank up the xp modifier in empty and low pop zones. Let it be known that it has been done and I think it could help ease the population crisis that is looming around the corner.

[TheSurgeon]

Imagine if the ZEM was lowered in zones with highly sought after loot, and raised in areas with mediocre loot. That way an interesting decision has to be made between efficiency and the possibility of money. It's not Classic, but of all the things to change it's the least of all the evils.

[Dillusional]

If the zones were underpopulated, you would want an EXP bonus because there were no groups to be had haha. Crowded zones is the opposite of a problem for this server imo.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Jesus people really will complain about anything

[snyder43]

I totally agree with this. There are some zones I walk into that are completely empty because they have crap loot, lack of ZEM, or are just difficult zones, so people opt to exp elsewhere else. Some that come to mind are Najena, Runnyeye, Paw, Kedge, Dalnir, Nurge, and Droga.

[ScaringChildren]

There are other alternatives: https://playphoenix.online/

The server has been open for like two weeks and it's amazing.

[d3r14k]

There are other alternatives: https://playphoenix.online/

The server has been open for like two weeks and it's amazing.

DAoC? Blasphemy. Playing that server would be like eating rotten grapes to get drunk when you already have fine wine in your cup.

As for server overpopulation: Make a group of the LFGs in the busy zones and head to the path less traveled. Sitting in MM waiting for CE camp with 5 other people? Take them all to Kaesora. Sitting in KC when it has 40 people in zone? Make a group and go to Kedge.

Fortune favors the ones who take initiative.

[Drathen]

Jesus people really will complain about anything

Not a complaint. It's an observation with a possible solution.

[snyder43]

Sitting in KC when it has 40 people in zone? Make a group and go to Kedge.

As someone who has spent a lot of time in Kedge, including leveling a character from 35 to 55, no one should exp there anymore.

1.) Everyone needs an EB item. Pretty much every time I go to Kedge with a group, someone who doesn't have an EB item doesn't notice that their EB starts wearing off and by the time they are drowning it's too late.

2.) The exp was nerfed in July 2017, and instead of having the insane modifier that it should have, it is now comparable to Lower Guk, but the mobs hit way harder.

3.) Casting is a pain since there are very few 90 degree corners for you to successfully corner cast from on the second floor, which is the best spot to set up camp for 40-50 groups because it gives you access to the highest number of mobs. Also, the seahorse caves are best for 50+ and they also suffer from a lack of 90% corners. Most (if not all) of the corners are ~120 degrees, which works if the mob is positioned at the correct angle, but if not you're screwed.

[TripleLegit]

Dude i never have issues. Why? Because i'm proactive as an above poster said... Well dang there is a great full group composition here sitting LFG. Guess i'm out of luck!

No, i check /who all LFG form a group and go to the Hole. Problem solved, i'm never sitting LFG for hours. Waste of time!

[Rygar]

I never really sat LFG, only exception when I was trying to get my pipe in KC. Always made my own group.

These under utilized zones all have tricks on how to best conquer the dungeon and have great exp spots. You just need to take some time to, you know, learn the zone.

Die? Sucks, but learn from it, don't give up. Sometimes eat a death, you will be surprised how fast you make it up at mid to lower levels. Not having luck fighting at zone line? Push a little deeper and try new things. Certain mobs give you problems? How do you avoid them or learn to neutralize them (stun lock? Charm? Dispell? Slow? Fear?).

There arent always perfectly laid out camps where you sit on your ass and watch Netflix as easy warrior mobs with low hp die in rapid exp gravy train succession.

Learn a new zone, may need to depend on some other classes. Part of the fun of EQ class dependence.

[Drathen]

I never really sat LFG, only exception when I was trying to get my pipe in KC. Always made my own group.

These under utilized zones all have tricks on how to best conquer the dungeon and have great exp spots. You just need to take some time to, you know, learn the zone.

Die? Sucks, but learn from it, don't give up. Sometimes eat a death, you will be surprised how fast you make it up at mid to lower levels. Not having luck fighting at zone line? Push a little deeper and try new things. Certain mobs give you problems? How do you avoid them or learn to neutralize them (stun lock? Charm? Dispell? Slow? Fear?).

There arent always perfectly laid out camps where you sit on your ass and watch Netflix as easy warrior mobs with low hp die in rapid exp gravy train succession.

Learn a new zone, may need to depend on some other classes. Part of the fun of EQ class dependence.

Ok, so what would be a good place for a level 13 pally?

[Champion_Standing]

Nah, there's plenty of room and plenty of stuff to kill. Just because the population all congregates in a handful of zones doesn't mean the server needs to change, the player base needs to adapt and start spreading out.

[Jimjam]

Najena just starting to heat up at 13.

[Drathen]

Nah, there's plenty of room and plenty of stuff to kill. Just because the population all congregates in a handful of zones doesn't mean the server needs to change, the player base needs to adapt and start spreading out.

I dont doubt that, just up the xp in those areas and people will sread out. That's my point of suggesting that.

[TripleLegit]

I dont doubt that, just up the xp in those areas and people will sread out. That's my point of suggesting that.

Not true, upping the ZEM is no guarantee that people will spread out. The Hole is a perfect example. HS as well. Amazing XP modifier in the hole, very scarcely populated.

[Drathen]

Not true, upping the ZEM is no guarantee that people will spread out. The Hole is a perfect example. HS as well. Amazing XP modifier in the hole, very scarcely populated.

I am sure there are contributing factors at play there. Risk vs reward. How much of a pain is it for non casters to get there and back.
I have never hunted there so I couldn't say. My highest level toon on P99 is 15th and on live i had/have a 30 something druid who rarely went dungeon delving.
I am venturing now where I feared to tread then. It's been fun but the fun is wearing thin becouse everywhere I go the place is wall to wall groups and hunted till the places are empty.

[branamil]

Maybe players should nut up and try out different zones? I've noticing the Hole and Chardok are getting more exp groups, but they could both support way more. Great alternative to KC/Seb

[TripleLegit]

Maybe players should nut up and try out different zones? I've noticing the Hole and Chardok are getting more exp groups, but they could both support way more. Great alternative to KC/Seb

Yeah hole could have 30+ players in zone and still have spots open for xp. And yeah the Hole has some difficulties but if you got a rogue and a cleric you are pretty much set. I love that zone so much haha.

SolA was another place that is dope xp and cash but always dead in less you brought a group.

[loramin]

Jesus people really will complain about anything

Not a complaint. It's an observation with a possible solution.

Clearly he wasn't talking about you, he was making a self-referential post complaining about how people complain about everything, while at the same time complaining about his own post, as it complained about something so obscure (a person proposing an idea) that it itself could be taken as complaining "about everything" ;)

It was a truly next-level post, and then when you consider the fact that the poster's name was "Indiscriminate Hater" ...

https://i.imgur.com/zvXOXpZ.gif?noredirect

[Drathen]

Maybe players should nut up and try out different zones? I've noticing the Hole and Chardok are getting more exp groups, but they could both support way more. Great alternative to KC/Seb

That's the whole point of this post is people should spread out and to help that, up the xp in low pop zones. That's it.

[bigjeff100]

Just get rid of XP modifiers.. :)

[TripleLegit]

That's the whole point of this post is people should spread out and to help that, up the xp in low pop zones. That's it.

I’m with you man. I wish there was more of a variety in the leveling path especially at the lower levels. But it doesn’t seem like xp is necessarily the prime factor. A lot of the places with dope xp get ignored for easier traditional zones. I’d love to have more experiences in zones I’ve never really gotten to explore just because of the whole golden road mentality.

[Teppler]

Isn’t the ability to kill faster in an unpopular zone a kind of exp modifier in itself? I think this problem fixes itself. Go to a different, unpopular zone and you’ll have more opportunities for kills and exp.

[Drathen]

I'm just bewildered why there is so much push back on uping xp in a few zones.

[rekreant]

Because it isnt classic. The classic experience was knowing the zems (which eventually switched frequently) and xping at the most xp rewarding spot. In a game where it takes hundreds of hours to max lvl you really want to take any advantage you can to make it quicker.

[loramin]

I'm just bewildered why there is so much push back on uping xp in a few zones.

Maybe because it flies in the face of everything the volunteers have been working on for over a decade, asshole?!?



Just kidding (and having fun mocking forum responses) ... mostly. Here's the thing: you are far from the first person to suggest this idea. Like, if you did a Google search (don't use the forum search, it's awful), and you found the time before the time before the time before the previous time someone suggested this, you probably wouldn't even be back in 2014 yet.

There's a reason it keeps coming up: it's a good and logical idea. And there's also a reason why it will never happen: it's not how classic EverQuest worked. Modern MMOGs came up with lots of great ideas that made MMOGs better (see WoW PvP vs. Red). But in the process, they also lost some of the "secret sauce" that made EverQuest magical.

Project 1999 is all about re-capturing that secret sauce. That's already hard enough as it is (they don't have perfect info about classic EQ, they can't charge for accounts, everyone has internet connections that are 100x faster than they were in '99, etc.). They are not going to further risk losing more of "the sauce" by further diverging unnecessarily from classic EQ, no matter how good of an idea it might be to do so.

BUT, there is a small ray of hope here. The staff will never implement "hot zones", or any other modern MMOG concept. However, the project has a dirty secret: it's ZEMs aren't classic either! The classic ZEMs were fairly well-known (they're built into the EQ Emulator software), and of course the vast majority of live players did not know zone ZEMs (although a few cheaters who used ShowEQ did, and that's how everyone now knows the ZEMs). So the devs decided their own custom, but unknown, ZEMs were more classic than the actually classic, but known, ZEMs.

The P99 staff blocks ShowEQ here, and they've never revealed the actual/altered ZEMs for zones, so all we know is that some are still the stock EQ Emulator ZEMs, and some aren't. So while they'll never announce "we're upping the XP for these ___ unpopular zones" they could do so quietly behind the scenes. In fact, for all anyone knows, they've been doing that for years, and they've just been subtle enough about it that no one has noticed.

But then again, maybe they haven't and ZEMs have been fixed in place for years. Even if that's the case, you can't really fault them. Again, this project is about re-creating classic EQ, and classic EQ had unpopular zones with crappy ZEMs that (virtually) no one went to also. If those zones were more popular in live, it was because of general player ignorance of how things like ZEMs worked, and that's another one of those unclassic factors (far greater player knowledge) that the staff can't do anything to fix here.

[aaezil]

If you go and look theres dozens of zones throughout the level ranges with 100s of mobs sitting up 24/7... zone overpopulation is just a result of lazy/uncreative players.

[Danth]

Classic EQ was 40 people in unrest, 70+ in lower guk, and killing a half dozen mobs from your round then waiting 20 minutes for them to spawn again. That was a big part of why leveling was so slow. P1999's population has never at any point reached the levels of the most popular servers from the original game.

If you're level 15ish, where are you going that's so crowded, anyway? You have access to some areas in the faydark region, the deserts of ro/oasis, the plains of karana, and numerous other regions besides, not even counting the various low-level dungeon zones.

Danth

[Muggens]

Dude has max lvl of 15 and is complaining about zem...

[Drathen]

Dude has max lvl of 15 and is complaining about zem...

I know, I'm unimportant right.
And once again not complaining. Just making an observation and suggesting a solution.

[White_knight]

EQ is an over populated game if you stay on the XP highway zones. Go explore - there's a bazillion zones out there you probably have never stepped foot in.

Plus server is hitting 1800 player's frequently now, so expect some heavy populated zone. Or go play on red99 with a pop of 50 spread over 200 zones.

[Champion_Standing]

I know, I'm unimportant right.
And once again not complaining. Just making an observation and suggesting a solution.

The ZEMs won't ever be changed, it's up to the players to get out of the crowded zones. Your best bet is finding some other people who are sick of standing around waiting in line and going with them off to one of the many empty zones. It's not always easy to set up, P99ers love standing in line, probably their favorite pastime.

[Lojik]

We're almost there to fully reliving the classic experience, when everything + your mom was camped by whole groups. 100 people in South Karana? Classic.

[Drathen]

We're almost there to fully reliving the classic experience, when everything + your mom was camped by whole groups. 100 people in South Karana? Classic.

That's a goal? Eeesh.

[Jauna]

Not true, upping the ZEM is no guarantee that people will spread out. The Hole is a perfect example. HS as well. Amazing XP modifier in the hole, very scarcely populated.

This isnt fair. People do not go to The Hole/HS because it is super out of the way and a corpse recovery is extremely time consuming.

[Jauna]

zone overpopulation is just a result of lazy/uncreative players.

im sure if we were all teenagers again who can play 12-23 hours a day this might be viable but when you factor in travel time, recruiting people by hand and so on that whole idea of getting a dalnir group is just not worth it even if you stay there for an hour, not counting the recruit/travel time

[a_gnome_collector]

Is there any plans on dealing with the surge in players and the resulting overpopulation of zones?
U think a simple solution would be to crank up the xp modifier in empty and low pop zones. Let it be known that it has been done and I think it could help ease the population crisis that is looming around the corner.

One thing I love about EQ is how hardcore this game is. The competition is always a love/hate relationship. To use an analogy, P99 is like a stiff drink. And what youre asking for is a cosmo.

[aaezil]

im sure if we were all teenagers again who can play 12-23 hours a day this might be viable but when you factor in travel time, recruiting people by hand and so on that whole idea of getting a dalnir group is just not worth it even if you stay there for an hour, not counting the recruit/travel time

I can get to any zone in the game within 5 minutes due to dial a port.
So really no idea what you are talking about.

[kaluppo]

As for server overpopulation: Make a group of the LFGs in the busy zones and head to the path less traveled. Sitting in MM waiting for CE camp with 5 other people? Take them all to Kaesora. Sitting in KC when it has 40 people in zone? Make a group and go to Kedge.

Fortune favors the ones who take initiative.

This does not work a lot of the time. It's like socialism. It might look good on paper but try it out and you end up with a disaster. All it takes is the tank or healer to say "Sorry guys but I have to run" and the parties over. They will all say at the beginning they got a few hours to play but it never fails that 30 minutes into the grind someone has wife aggro or work just called or they go LD and never return.

If you are in KC and the tank leaves you /ooc hands group looking for replacement tank.

You are in Kedge and the tank leaves then everyone has to leave and make the long journey back to KC where they might find a group or have a shot at getting a tank replacement.

[Jauna]

I can get to any zone in the game within 5 minutes due to dial a port.
So really no idea what you are talking about.

Thats just you, now trying to wrangle 5 others. finding them, trying to convince them to move, travel across the world and hope you can fill that missing square peg before the others get bored or has a cat catch fire before or during things get rolling

[Keza]

This does not work a lot of the time. It's like socialism. It might look good on paper but try it out and you end up with a disaster. All it takes is the tank or healer to say "Sorry guys but I have to run" and the parties over. They will all say at the beginning they got a few hours to play but it never fails that 30 minutes into the grind someone has wife aggro or work just called or they go LD and never return.

Yeah. A friend and I made a duo and were pretty twinked. I wanted to avoid the highway so we would form groups for paw, sol A, lower guk etc. It wasn't too terrible getting the actual groups together because my main was a druid, and I always offered ports when the group broke, but it was seldom that groups lasted very long.

There's a lack of common courtesy when it comes to grouping on p99 that you would expect people to have, but maybe some people lost it over time. FFXI was the same way. You join a group on there and you better damn well have at least an hour, and that's without making any promises.

Another thing is most people play EQ for literal decades and still don't know some zones. Probably because of the exp highway itself, and a lack of any.. you know.. quests.. taking them to other zones. Leading a group of randoms to Kaesora or Dalnir will absolutely end badly for one reason or another. For instance in paw on this server past the first double doors there's a heinous pathing glitch on that wooden bridge that results in 20+ gnolls training you and instantly killing everyone.

* But I do wish people would branch out. There's plenty of untouched zones. Some of them suck, sure. Even to the point that some zones are too unfun to even level in, for reasons like the paw pathing glitch, but there's still quite a few barren areas in the world.

[Neon Archie]

Swamp of No Hope, Beholder’s Maze, Runneye. Under 20 you and/or your friends can have the whole zone and xp with no competition. Early 20s Najena or start the entrance to CT or Permafrost. Keep working your way in until mid 30s. There are roads less travelled...

[Diogene]

I saw groups in najena earlier on

[wagorf]

This does not work a lot of the time. It's like socialism. It might look good on paper but try it out and you end up with a disaster. All it takes is the tank or healer to say "Sorry guys but I have to run" and the parties over. They will all say at the beginning they got a few hours to play but it never fails that 30 minutes into the grind someone has wife aggro or work just called or they go LD and never return.

If you are in KC and the tank leaves you /ooc hands group looking for replacement tank.

You are in Kedge and the tank leaves then everyone has to leave and make the long journey back to KC where they might find a group or have a shot at getting a tank replacement.

yep, lots of people here love to give theoretical talks without in field experience

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I totally agree with this. There are some zones I walk into that are completely empty because they have crap loot, lack of ZEM, or are just difficult zones, so people opt to exp elsewhere else. Some that come to mind are Najena, Runnyeye, Paw, Kedge, Dalnir, Nurge, and Droga.

Add cazic thule to that list as well, unfortunately
Love xping there

[DMN]

Back in the day it was either fight for scraps in places like unrest or head on out to the often neglected places in the world. I remember being giddy i had 2 whole spawns to myself at the arena entrance in lake rathe.

[Ennewi]

This does not work a lot of the time. It's like socialism. It might look good on paper but try it out and you end up with a disaster. All it takes is the tank or healer to say "Sorry guys but I have to run" and the parties over. They will all say at the beginning they got a few hours to play but it never fails that 30 minutes into the grind someone has wife aggro or work just called or they go LD and never return.

If you are in KC and the tank leaves you /ooc hands group looking for replacement tank.

You are in Kedge and the tank leaves then everyone has to leave and make the long journey back to KC where they might find a group or have a shot at getting a tank replacement.

Guild groups are the exception. Even if one or two players need to leave early, reps are easy to come by. People have no reservations about joining a guild group in progress, even if they're practically strangers and all the way out in the sticks.

For PUGs, it's easy enough to convince those who are lfg in KC to form up and leg it over to Chardok. Just depends if there are enough of the right classes at first. A healer and tank should be enough to attract others into joining via ooc.

But it's like any ism/system on paper; no one version is going to prove terribly effective with any great consistency unless it includes elements of the others. They're lopsided and often inadequate without different types, similar to classes in EQ.

So join a solid guild that groups regularly but don't depend on them for exp. Use the forums to start having regular groups in the underappreciated zones. Or just be more active in recruiting others, using /who all. It can be tedious, but it's better than semi-afking at the zoneline waiting for more of the same xp grind.

Dalnir has a great atmosphere to it and it's quite safe once you break in the spawns. Just have a puller who knows what they are doing. Same could be said for Kaesora once the group gets past the overlap of spiders and undead. Bind melee outside and the CR time isn't any greater than the usual dungeons. Warrens is also well worth the port over, just be prepared for lots of adds. And again, get bound right outside.

[Foxplay]

News flash, ZEM does not matter if your competing for camps or don't have ample mobs to kill....

If your constantly full mana or high mana with nothing to kill... go to a different zone stop waiting for X camp, the ZEM bonus will not make up for 30minutes or hours of making crap or no exp that you would get of constant exp gain in a zone with low ZEM

While I agree some zones should have a much higher ZEM for what they are worth/challenge. In the end its not classic to change them (although it would'nt be the end of the world if they did either) But sounds like a you problem if you don't try and go to different zones

[ScottBerta]

13 Paladin do Kurns tear up the undead!

[Muggens]

I know, I'm unimportant right.
And once again not complaining. Just making an observation and suggesting a solution.

Youve played on here for an hour.

Kids nowadays... perhaps try WoW?

[Jimjam]

The game isnMt sufficiently populated until there are 24/7 XP groups of barbarians hunting the tundra and dungeons around everfroat!

[Ghostly]

There are other alternatives: https://playphoenix.online/

The server has been open for like two weeks and it's amazing.

I will be setting this up to play tomorrow.

[Drathen]

Youve played on here for an hour.

Kids nowadays... perhaps try WoW?

Dude I am probably older than you are. I played EQ when it first came out. I played for years.

[rekreant]

Dude I am probably older than you are. I played EQ when it first came out. I played for years.

This is a neckbeard forum for neckbeard eq vets. We all played since release bro. A significant chunk beta tested out of self hatred.

[Arakash]

The death knell for classic EQ was when Sony/Verant started listening to the complaints about exp rate, travel time etc. etc.

That's why I think people are a bit confused when someone comes to a classic EQ museum (p99) and suggests the exact thing that eventually ruined the original classic game.

I mean live EQ is still thing. It's pretty easy leveling from what I hear

[Smurflogik]

I will be setting this up to play tomorrow.

Best DAoC shard yet, imo. <Worship> is recruiting!

[Wallicker]

CoM population 40 today... I form a 4man group and do SolB royals for better Xp and a vendor/Druid ring 50 ft away! CoM and KC are lies don’t do it!

[Gumbo]

This is all really simple... It's the middle of January, it's negative 20 degrees out and people don't have shit to do.

See what the population of the server will be once March/April hits and then complain it's too crowded...

[Expediency]

The problem is everyone knows which zones are best risk-reward because we've had 20 years to figure that out. There's no good answer to this. My solution would be a handful of random zones having ZEM modifiers which change every patch to incentivize players trying new places. Thats probably never going to happen.

The most realistic thing which could maybe help would be the implementation of the surefall glade port which is coming in the future.

Lots of people say "well just make a group and travel to a new place!" but that works for maybe two hours max before you start losing players and have no way to replace them since nobody is lfg at zoneline. Also other services (porting, rez) tend to be unavailable.

[Troxx]

The biggest challenge is for the player who has a window of 1-2 hours and doesn’t want to spend 30 minutes running to a remote place only to find it empty and have to go all the way back to their starting point.

Many of the more empty places are that way for a reason. From the hole to kedge to HS to chardok ... these aren’t exactly friendly to the random lfg person. Dying? Meh. Zoning into a place without an immediate exit and being stuck there? That’s annoying. Without gate chardok for example is a PITA for a lfg melee.

If anything the crowded prime time zones will encourage those with wider networks of hunting buddies and those with longer windows of playtime to leave the crowded zones with more stable premade groups of friends.

[turbosilk]

The biggest challenge is for the player who has a window of 1-2 hours and doesn’t want to spend 30 minutes running to a remote place only to find it empty and have to go all the way back to their starting point.

Many of the more empty places are that way for a reason. From the hole to kedge to HS to chardok ... these aren’t exactly friendly to the random lfg person. Dying? Meh. Zoning into a place without an immediate exit and being stuck there? That’s annoying. Without gate chardok for example is a PITA for a lfg melee.

If anything the crowded prime time zones will encourage those with wider networks of hunting buddies and those with longer windows of playtime to leave the crowded zones with more stable premade groups of friends.

/who [level]-[level] is a great way to form up your group ahead of time, make friends and start your own network. If you want to solo and want little to no effort getting a group I recommend rolling a cleric or playing WoW.

Classic eq is about ditching necessary social interactions to get the immersion.

[Jimjam]

If you look at the inspirational source material, Wizards are excellent at forming groups to adventure in far off places (Hobbit, LoTR).

[Megalodon]

I totally agree with this. There are some zones I walk into that are completely empty because they have crap loot, lack of ZEM, or are just difficult zones, so people opt to exp elsewhere else. Some that come to mind are Najena, Runnyeye, Paw, Kedge, Dalnir, Nurge, and Droga.

LoL whut?

Dumb question gets dumb answers I guess. Like the post above, those are some fantastic zones if you enjoy the game. If you are just looking for where to show up for your level 60 and epic maybe i would suggest a different game

[Mblake1981]

The death knell for classic EQ was when Sony/Verant started listening to the complaints about exp rate, travel time etc. etc.

That's why I think people are a bit confused when someone comes to a classic EQ museum (p99) and suggests the exact thing that eventually ruined the original classic game.

Balance queefs

[Mblake1981]

If you look at the inspirational source material, Wizards are excellent at forming groups to adventure in far off places (Hobbit, LoTR).

I like to pretend LOTR never existed and D&D was formed via spontaneous generation.

[Tuurin]

It's definitely noticeable in recent days. My current strategy is to look for spots where I can both solo a little while I wait and hope some more people show up/stick around that want to combine for greater rewards.

With my 30 monk I thought- back in the day, people around this level used to go to the Sarnak fort in LOIO and do pugs, right? Got port to DL, begged a sow/camo and ran to FV, begged a bind at the bank, begged another camo to run up to LOIO (dodging a-hole spider-guys and gals that like to see invis) and made it over there. Ran around for about an hour and a half killing stuff solo, watched euros kill monk epic guy, etc. and nobody in the zone near me (few people killing bloodgills, newbies under 20, etc.).

Logged in next day, spent another 90 minutes soloing and no takers on groupage. I guess all LFG back in Mistmoore or waiting on a list in HHK goblins. /shurg

[Wallicker]

30 monk solo get on goblin list and go upstairs and single camp guard Chopin blue til 34 and on a 3 min respawn it is faster than a full goblin group!

[Tuurin]

Killing guards in HHK might be the only thing more over-camped than goblins in HHK. I had my monk parked there for like a week. Would log in, check with gob group (want to be 6th on the list?) then check on Chopin- somebody already there. Then log off and fire up my necro to solo...

The point I was trying to make (agree with others' posts) was branching out from the normal spots pretty much means you're going to solo 90% of the time.

[Wallicker]

Ahh yea best to /who all LFG I usually have great success with this method

[Troxx]

It's definitely noticeable in recent days. My current strategy is to look for spots where I can both solo a little while I wait and hope some more people show up/stick around that want to combine for greater rewards.

This is what I do. I am almost embarrassed to admit I park in KC on my paladin for those shorter playtime days. If there’s no group to be had I can always solo mobs while I wait or to get a few % solo until I log. If I get a group quickly great. The xp isn’t the best but I mostly enjoy the atmosphere of getting to play the game’s best group tank ... in a group.

For longer session days like weekends or whenever guild groups are possible - I prefer leveling most anywhere else.

[Vheran]

There are other alternatives: https://playphoenix.online/

The server has been open for like two weeks and it's amazing.

Thanks will turn this on soon

[Kika Maslyaka]

There is a difference between Design Philosophy and Design Flaw.

Corpse recovery, death penalty, hard travel etc - all part of Design Philosophy. I may not like that but I accept them as is.
Putting ton of time in making an interesting zone like RunnyEye while putting it out of the way and no incentive to go there (no XP, no loot, no significant quests) - is a Design Flaw.

But shit is classic so you stuck with it. It was dead on LIVE as well, no surprise here. They updated it once and improved loot but by the time they did it it was irrelevant to the game as a whole.

Same can be said about Luclin - why most people hated Luclin? Because it was RunnyEye X 100. Ton of effort - zero gain. As much as 1/2 to 3/4 Luclin content wasn't ever used by majority of players because it was REALLY out of the the way and 0 incentive to ever go there.

[Grail3r]

A solution is either find new area , or log out and play an alt that is a different level . Or take a break and play later .

[Snaggles]

Overpopulation? In 2004/5 EQ had 500k players concurrent among the servers. Divide that up and it's still a metric ton of people per zone.

P99 is hoppin if there are 1600 players online at the same time. Arguably more people know about hot zones like HHK but that's plenty of zone to go around.

Truthfully I'd make an alt. I have three toons I'm focusing on. I remember sitting at the zone line shouting for a group invite for a LONG time on live. These days I just log to my chanter or sham for some pewpew fun and check back.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Overpopulation? In 2004/5 EQ had 500k players concurrent among the servers. Divide that up and it's still a metric ton of people per zone.

P99 is hoppin if there are 1600 players online at the same time. Arguably more people know about hot zones like HHK but that's plenty of zone to go around.

Truthfully I'd make an alt. I have three toons I'm focusing on. I remember sitting at the zone line shouting for a group invite for a LONG time on live. These days I just log to my chanter or sham for some pewpew fun and check back.

Ecxept by 2004, EQ had 7 expansion worth of content, not 3. And 2 more were added in 2004 alone.

[riczaj01]

Imagine if the ZEM was lowered in zones with highly sought after loot, and raised in areas with mediocre loot. That way an interesting decision has to be made between efficiency and the possibility of money. It's not Classic, but of all the things to change it's the least of all the evils.

^^^This is a really good idea. People will go to Guk/LGuk for the loot, yet he Warrens are barren. I haven't trie Blackburrow was died, but OrcHill/Crushbone are flooded, but Nek forest and steamfont are empty.

[Jauna]

^^^This is a really good idea. People will go to Guk/LGuk for the loot, yet he Warrens are barren. I haven't trie Blackburrow was died, but OrcHill/Crushbone are flooded, but Nek forest and steamfont are empty.

Guk: people like plat or farming stuff for their alts and for some reason had a surge of players nonstop here. my paladin and monk had nonstop grouping here past week or so
Warrens: Super out of the way, has the kunark tier ac/hp, not many people play erudites
Blackburrow: stigma of just a few years ago when people wiped out black burrow on their high level and looted fangs on their alts, also pretty out of the way, human/barb/half elf only for the most part which is another downside since most people skip humans and barbs for their superior class counter parts (troll/ogre sham, iksar monk, etc)
Crushbone: People fucking love elves bro i shit you the fuck not this is the only reason why. three of the four elf races can and do start here now lets top off the fact that many of the classes are good first time choices like cleric, bard, druid and whatnot
Nek forest: dark elves just go to crushbone, that dark elf warrior faction is worth losing or they i dunno man
Steamfont: gnome village is a hop, skip and a fart away from elfland

[riczaj01]

Guk: people like plat or farming stuff for their alts and for some reason had a surge of players nonstop here. my paladin and monk had nonstop grouping here past week or so
Warrens: Super out of the way, has the kunark tier ac/hp, not many people play erudites
Blackburrow: stigma of just a few years ago when people wiped out black burrow on their high level and looted fangs on their alts, also pretty out of the way, human/barb/half elf only for the most part which is another downside since most people skip humans and barbs for their superior class counter parts (troll/ogre sham, iksar monk, etc)
Crushbone: People fucking love elves bro i shit you the fuck not this is the only reason why. three of the four elf races can and do start here now lets top off the fact that many of the classes are good first time choices like cleric, bard, druid and whatnot
Nek forest: dark elves just go to crushbone, that dark elf warrior faction is worth losing or they i dunno man
Steamfont: gnome village is a hop, skip and a fart away from elfland

Nothing is really out of the way in EQ when you can port there. Part of the fun of the original eq was running from Freeport to Qyenos, proof in point, all the dark races in GFay going to CB.
Just started so didn't know about BB, but it's not an issue now. Regardless of all this, the point of the idea was to give players a reason to go to these places, if you have a ton of people already heading to zones for other reasons(Gfay/Guk) then there's no reason to give xp benefits for it. Give it to places that aren't already loaded.

[Ravager]

When it comes to groups, if you build it, they will come. Go wherever the hell you want. Whatever class you are, there is a class that will compliment that, get that person there to duo and build from there. Exp modifiers don't matter a whole lot if you're part of a well oiled machine. Find an empty zone with a ton of mobs and you'll make exp faster than anyone in Mistmoore/Sol B/Guk/Seb.

[Tuurin]

I think the best solution to the "golden highway" issue is if one or more of the major leveling guilds worked with their populations to move people around. Not sure who that is anymore (ALS? Dawnbreakers? Kittens? IDK) but if one or more of those guilds got the word out to their lower levels to for example set up shop in Befallen vs Crushbone, Najena vs Mistmoore, Droga vs CoM, etc. that might get people to gravitate more toward those other zones. It's tough for individuals to move people around, but maybe guilds could?

[Erati]

try Kedge

[Crede]

Find a few people with similar playtimes and form a trio. Starting at level 1:

Any starting area > Warrens > kerra > nurga > Dalnir > droga > kedge > Chardok.

Congrats no competition and you’ll haul ass to 60.

[Malik_Gynax]

Find a few people with similar playtimes and form a trio. Starting at level 1:

Any starting area > Warrens > kerra > nurga > Dalnir > droga > kedge > Chardok.

Congrats no competition and you’ll haul ass to 60.

Warrens at least is seemingly packed at most hours of the day these days with powerlevelers or factioners killing the entire zone. The secret is out on the warrens.

[Clazxiss]

Warrens at least is seemingly packed at most hours of the day these days with powerlevelers or factioners killing the entire zone. The secret is out on the warrens.

Darn it! I've been trying to keep the Warrens a secret forever. Bleh.

[Jauna]

Nothing is really out of the way in EQ when you can port there. Part of the fun of the original eq was running from Freeport to Qyenos, proof in point, all the dark races in GFay going to CB. .

That is fun and nostalgic the first few times but even I succor myself through the karanas on my druid to get to permafrost. And waiting on the boat to listen to that 20 year old midi music play as you sit and remember everything you did when you were younger but.. after awhile you just stop giving a fuck about that. Or at the very least want little risk for the same ole same ole.

I do not want to commit to a group by finding a port, getting a bind and get there to see they are still recruiting which can fall apart before, during or right after for various reasons like a randomly combusting cat, or someones kid wakes up or someones sexdoll starts talking and tells them they need to go or even a raid target spawning and whatever the reason there is always a domino effect that shatters non-highway groups and people gate out. Sure I had great times in DB/kitten guild groups for out of the way spots like kaesoria or dalnir but those are few and far in between. and if I can get a group on x alt in y zone, im just go to alt z and so on these days.

Its not called the exp super highway as a bad thing, but the only safe option because finding 5 other people who are willing to travel, bind and wait for 1-2 hours to get shit together and break the camp and stay there for enough time to make it worth it is.. just not practical for pugs.

Fuck I had groups in the oasis break up because moving from the pillar to the orc highway was too much for some.

[solidious77]

None of the mechanics should change; increasing or randomizing zone XP modifiers is a silly idea. Releasing a new server even if its not ready.. is the best solution to most if not all issues pre-60 raid scene; especially server population.

I think -- Part of the problem with the server congestion, is the fact that everyone is so geared there is no longer a requirement of a 6-man group, pretty much ever.. Certainly never for xp!

Side point: I always love the comparisons to classic eq when the p99 economy isn't considered.. I feel like eq was designed for everyone to rock a rusty dagger and shitty cloth clothes for a long time before they get real loots.. Like getting that first RMB from Solb.. such a cool feeling..

Having said the above, I've tried to re-roll naked on p99 a few times to bring back that first-time adventure back, but within a few days of farming silk and bone chips, then crafting javelins, you've got enough plat to fulfill all your twinking needs; having only actually looted maybe a few pieces yourself by the time you're raid ready.. NOT classic lol =)

Mind you.. the current 1700 players, plus whoever else starts up, might be tight in Antonica only.. but if that's the case then I would just vote for two servers to be put up

[Vizax_Xaziv]

When it comes to groups, if you build it, they will come

Easier said that done many times, unfortunately. There was a ridiculous *46* people in Unrest the other night and we were unsuccessful in getting people to move elsewhere. One individual in the group even said "I'm gonna stay here been on list for FP group for 2 hours now I should be up soon"

[loramin]

None of the mechanics should change; increasing or randomizing zone XP modifiers is a silly idea. Releasing a new server even if its not ready.. is the best solution to most if not all issues pre-60 raid scene; especially server population.

I think -- Part of the problem with the server congestion, is the fact that everyone is so geared there is no longer a requirement of a 6-man group, pretty much ever.. Certainly never for xp!

Side point: I always love the comparisons to classic eq when the p99 economy isn't considered.. I feel like eq was designed for everyone to rock a rusty dagger and shitty cloth clothes for a long time before they get real loots.. Like getting that first RMB from Solb.. such a cool feeling..

Having said the above, I've tried to re-roll naked on p99 a few times to bring back that first-time adventure back, but within a few days of farming silk and bone chips, then crafting javelins, you've got enough plat to fulfill all your twinking needs; having only actually looted maybe a few pieces yourself by the time you're raid ready.. NOT classic lol =)

Mind you.. the current 1700 players, plus whoever else starts up, might be tight in Antonica only.. but if that's the case then I would just vote for two servers to be put up

It sounds like you need to join Aud Laud Syne. Now to be clear I am not in any way affiliated with them (except that my guild raids with them sometimes), so I'm not trying to recruit you: it just sounds like the classic you want is exactly the classic they offer (ie. a classic economy).

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Side point: I always love the comparisons to classic eq when the p99 economy isn't considered.. I feel like eq was designed for everyone to rock a rusty dagger and shitty cloth clothes for a long time before they get real loots.. Like getting that first RMB from Solb.. such a cool feeling..


Yes this is precisely how the game was intended to be played - the grind is far less monotonous when you have a chance at gear upgrades while you're also XPing. Even better when this is the case for everyone in your group and youre all getting upgrades as the evenings progress.

Looting cloth and leather in CB / UGuk, rinngmail and eventually bronze in Unrest and Mistmoore and eventually reaching 35/40+ and camping actual Magic items in SolB/LGuk.

This is why many people are interested in a "Refresh" server etc etc.

[solidious77]

It sounds like you need to join Aud Laud Syne. Now to be clear I am not in any way affiliated with them (except that my guild raids with them sometimes), so I'm not trying to recruit you: it just sounds like the classic you want is exactly the classic they offer (ie. a classic economy).

While I certainly respect and love the idea of ALS, its just not the same as a real fresh start for many reasons, obviously. That said, ALS is a pinnacle example of why eq has such a great community; trying to do what they can with what we've got.

Pretty telling tale though when you're able to create/recruit a mass of players all interested in the same goal: a fresh start.

[solidious77]

Yes this is precisely how the game was intended to be played - the grind is far less monotonous when you have a chance at gear upgrades while you're also XPing. Even better when this is the case for everyone in your group and youre all getting upgrades as the evenings progress.

Looting cloth and leather in CB / UGuk, rinngmail and eventually bronze in Unrest and Mistmoore and eventually reaching 35/40+ and camping actual Magic items in SolB/LGuk.

This is why many people are interested in a "Refresh" server etc etc.

I feel like this is very well said. I 100% agree!

Cheers.

[Kika Maslyaka]

When server has been running in classic mode for 8 years - its has stopped being classic a very long time ago.
When people make an alt and give him gazillion bone chips/bat wings/orc belts to level up for 10-15 levels in 1 hour, and then twink them up with raid tier gear... Yeah, "classic spirit" my arse.

[Mblake81]

So you guys gonna keep refreshing a server every 3-6 months?

[Kika Maslyaka]

So you guys gonna keep refreshing a server every 3-6 months?

3 years for would reasonable reset time. Or custom content.

[kaluppo]

When server has been running in classic mode for 8 years - its has stopped being classic a very long time ago.
When people make an alt and give him gazillion bone chips/bat wings/orc belts to level up for 10-15 levels in 1 hour, and then twink them up with raid tier gear... Yeah, "classic spirit" my arse.

I see what you're saying but it can be some what classic if you want it to be. Twinking is a choice people can make but there is no EQ law that says you have to.

I just discovered P99 about a year ago. So in 2018 I was playing classic. It was my first character, I knew no one playing and had nothing but a cloth shirt and club to start my EQ life with. It was a grind just to afford all my spells as I reached each new spell level.

Now for my second character (cleric) I choose not to twink him with the druids PP. Now that's not to say I didn't have an easier time buying spells. I did use the druid to buy and deliver all the cleric spells each new spell level. But that was it. My Cleric is now currently wearing all KC gear that he looted from his own kills or groups kills.

I have a paladin and a Ranger who don't even have gear. The ranger has a bloodstained tunic that my cleric used to wear and they both have a KC weapon I looted with my cleric and passed onto them. Nothing special though as each weapon sells for less then 100pp in the EC tunnel. No fungi tunics or 5K+ weapons. I will let them loot their own gear minus the weapons they currently have and the BS tunic.

And I always earn every level with mob kills. I did back then and I still do it now. No belt questing for me. I enjoy grinding out the early levels in EC, Sro and Oasis just like I did back in 2000.

[Jauna]

Scheduled resetting would kill the server population eventually. loss of progress/time spent is disheartening as fuck. made even worse when you know its ganna happen again.

looking at you, swgemu.

[solidious77]

Scheduled resetting would kill the server population eventually. loss of progress/time spent is disheartening as fuck. made even worse when you know its ganna happen again.

Scheduled resetting would give players who started late a chance to experience the early game, and also allow for experienced players to re-do it better or perhaps differently than they did the first time around.

At a decent enough life-span, I don't think it would be disheartening. We all get bored of eq eventually.. if the scheduled server resets were gauged correctly it would probably keep people playing more than kill the population. Diablo ladder resets are a good viable example of this.

Also to your point, there could be some sort of logic to the reset, like all of your toons are migrated to a different server like blue or something.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Scheduled resetting would give players who started late a chance to experience the early game, and also allow for experienced players to re-do it better or perhaps differently than they did the first time around.

At a decent enough life-span, I don't think it would be disheartening. We all get bored of eq eventually.. if the scheduled server resets were gauged correctly it would probably keep people playing more than kill the population. Diablo ladder resets are a good viable example of this.

Also to your point, there could be some sort of logic to the reset, like all of your toons are migrated to a different server like blue or something.


Scheduled resetting could be managed by running 2 server at the same time - one in late stages, another in early stages.

[Jauna]

Scheduled resetting could be managed by running 2 server at the same time - one in late stages, another in early stages.

Red99 and Rise of Zek would like to have a word with you

[Jauna]

your toons are migrated to a different server like blue or something.

While the idea of sending raid alts to another server like some kinda Logan's Run shtick just the idea of splitting populations is another bad idea.

But as much as I hate to bring up a forum favorite meme, coming late to the party while everyone is in their fancy crusty armor at level 1 or epic'ed by 46 is.. classic as fuck. The whole server should not get wiped or split every time someone finds out about p99

[Zuranthium]

Why is splitting populations a bad idea? Server splits are in fact classic and a green server would allow people to experience the game in a more classic state.

[Champion_Standing]

Wipe the server every week

[Jauna]

Why is splitting populations a bad idea? Server splits are in fact classic and a green server would allow people to experience the game in a more classic state.

The classic server splits were made to ease Bertox and other extreme pop servers, not to wipe characters/progression.

And another thing is if EVERYONE starts out at the same time with plenty of prep time like an announcement will lead to overpopulated zones which is what started the thread in the first place. lol if you think people will move and not segment camps like we do now camps just because its a new server with even less resources available to them like DaP.. and other things.

[Zuranthium]

No characters get wiped though? At the end of Green server's cycle, they just get moved to Blue, where they can continue being played there if they want to. Yes people will gravitate around the same content but unless they re-code the game (which I think they should for new server, but they likely won't), that will always happen.

[Ezrick]

Obviously this person never zoned into Lower Guk on live shortly before Kunark was released and saw 113 people in the zone. P99 is barren compared to that.

[loramin]

No characters get wiped though? At the end of Green server's cycle, they just get moved to Blue, where they can continue being played there if they want to. Yes people will gravitate around the same content but unless they re-code the game (which I think they should for new server, but they likely won't), that will always happen.

This is not confirmed. The term "recycle server" was created by the players, with the assumption that characters on Green/Recycle would be folded back onto Blue at the end of each Green/Recycle cycle (2-3 years). However the staff has never confirmed that this will happen, and there are some serious logistical considerations to be resolved first.

For instance, Green will have several thousand players, and the odds are high that a thousand or more will have the same name as characters on Blue (because everyone wants to play Raistlin and Drizzt, /sigh). How exactly do you get a thousand players, all at once, to fix their names ... to new names which also don't conflict (on a completely different server, if they're somehow doing this while they're on Green)? Or alternatively, if you just move everyone and add an "X" at the end of their name, how do you let a thousand or more players change their names without hiring a million more GMs to accommodate all the extra humans needed (because you know that at an embarrassing percentage will try changing their name to something like "dickbag", so you need humans reviewing the changes)?

It's entirely possible that solving that problem (or some other problem that we haven't considered but the staff has) will be more work than the staff wants to put in, and as a result they won't "recycle" Green/Recycle at all. Or they'll find a solution and recycling will happen: we just don't know.

TLDR; "Recycling" Green is an idea the devs mentioned as a possibility once, but since then it's been mostly a player promoted idea. At this point no one except the staff themselves (and quite possibly not even them) knows for sure whether Green will actually recycle.

[Grizzler]

I will say I have been having good luck with /who [level] [level] however it doesn't work every time. Most of the times it doesn't work is when the people I am sending tells to either don't want to move or don't answer.

Also, don't do Phoenix DAOC, they butchered the game to get to pvp asap.

[Kika Maslyaka]

While the idea of sending raid alts to another server like some kinda Logan's Run shtick just the idea of splitting populations is another bad idea.

But as much as I hate to bring up a forum favorite meme, coming late to the party while everyone is in their fancy crusty armor at level 1 or epic'ed by 46 is.. classic as fuck. The whole server should not get wiped or split every time someone finds out about p99

Significant flaw here.

The alt-twinking was nowhere as bad on LIVE as it is here on P99.
After 5 years on LIVE Golden Age of EQ was already over, and people went over to play WoW and EQ2. And 9 expansions were out by that time.
Why does this matter? It matters because if some person would play exact same hours back then as today he would put it mostly towards developing his main, and MOST players hardly ever had more than 1-2 mains, and there was ALWAYS ton of things to catch up specially with AAs out. Getting to 65 was easy. Getting 600+ AA to be accepted in PoP-3 guilds wasn't. (or 2,000+ AAs for elemental tier)
People were VERY busy maxing out their main char and not playing many alts. They simply didn't had the time. I mean sure there were bunch of lev 5-15 alts stuck in noob zones but that as far as they went. (mostly)

On P99 people hit end game YEARS ago. And competition for raids is INSANE (on LIVE this high competition for Kunark and Velios was only for 2 years, because then there was Luclin, and then PoP which introduced gazillion of new raids, and top guilds moved on, making room for lesser guilds to advance).
So what do top players do on P99 when no raids are up? They level up yet ANOTHER alt.

And the maxed out alts will continue to pile up because there is nothing else to do. Unless there is new content or server reset. (personally I am in favor of new content rather than reset)

[Nikkanu]

Zone overpopulation is something that’s going to be even more of an issue now that a big chunk of the servers population (AG, AM, BG+Core, and whatever is left of Tempest) aren’t going to be stuck socking it up in TOV 2-3 days every single week and instead will be farming and xping their army of alts. RIP XP Zones and loot camps.

[Waedawen]

P99 has always had a 'herding' issue where everyone just goes to the most 'popular' or easy zones and just AFK's in 6 man groups trying to get xp.

There are many, many, many extremely lucrative places to hunt that are off the beaten path. Especially for teams of 2-4 players.

[Wallicker]

^^ this made two levels 41 to 43.5 in a duo (ALS mage / ALS sham) in 5 hours also got some true silver loot that sold for hundreds of plat each to a vendor... /who all cityofmist too many players to count...

[Zuranthium]

How exactly do you get a thousand players, all at once, to fix their names ... to new names which also don't conflict, on a completely different server?

It's very easy - you just add a number to the end of the character name. The first Loramin on blue is Loramin. On a green server, after your Loramin there eventually gets moved over to blue, it would become Loramin II. So on and so forth.

[Jimjam]

It's very easy - you just add a number to the end of the character name. The first Loramin on blue is Loramin. On a green server, after your Loramin there eventually gets moved over to blue, it would become Loramin II. So on and so forth.

On live server merges they'd just add an 'x' to the end of any name that otherwise resulted in a duplicate name. You could then petition to have that name changed. So if you had a character on each server called buttse you'd end up with...never mind, you get the idea!

[Tethler]

Zone overpopulation?

Wouldn't happen on Red

[Jauna]

Zone overpopulation?

Can't happen on Red

Fixed

[JayDee]

There are many, many, many extremely lucrative places to hunt that are off the beaten path. Especially for teams of 2-4 players.

Wish it were the same at 60. Only a handful of places to go worth your time and 90% of them are over camped. I would say that is the #1 problem with classic EQ, though that probably adds to the the perceived value and status of items which is a good thing.

Just stinks having the desire to play and logging on/off 5 different characters to find nothing open

[Nixtar]

Wish it were the same at 60. Only a handful of places to go worth your time and 90% of them are over camped. I would say that is the #1 problem with classic EQ, though that probably adds to the the perceived value and status of items which is a good thing.

Just stinks having the desire to play and logging on/off 5 different characters to find nothing open

Let's bring foot races and FTE bullshit to leveling up as well. This way we won't just turn the classic experience of P99 into a stressful shitshow but also prepare people for the big giant shitshow of the raid scene.

Don't like it?! Well, f*** off, you dirty communist, this isn't a game, this is WAR! Anything goes!

This would at the very least solve the population issues. I believe red had a similarly wholesome approach.

[Diogene]

I dont know I have seen the Hole being quite busy last couple of weeks, almost an lfg / pickup zone. I like this ! Also Najena heating up. Havent checked Dalnir but wouldnt be surprised this being busier. 2k pop is about right for the size of the map. More peeps the better.

[Kika Maslyaka]

People should also read this - The Kunark Problem

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/kunark.php

[Grizzler]

I dont know I have seen the Hole being quite busy last couple of weeks, almost an lfg / pickup zone. I like this ! Also Najena heating up. Havent checked Dalnir but wouldnt be surprised this being busier. 2k pop is about right for the size of the map. More peeps the better.

The hole has been getting a lot busier. Especially when you notice that many camps used on other servers aren't used or known here.
Took my cleric and a group to Sword camp last night and we had a blast. No one was there and ton of mobs to kill. Even slab (known as town here?) and docks were open later into the night and Sword 2.
Such a under used zone which i find to be the best spot to be 50+ especially with the caster drops there that drop like candy. Loam encrusted is good stuff for the gearing up folks.
Really hoping folks start using it more, which seems to be happening, was a huge leveling zone on TLP servers.

[kotton05]

People should also read this - The Kunark Problem

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/kunark.php

Under rated post

[JayDee]

Kunark is probably the most robust of all three. Rich in solo, group and raid content. Plus the great lore and addition of a new race which gave people another purpose to level 1-60.

[Crede]

I dont know I have seen the Hole being quite busy last couple of weeks, almost an lfg / pickup zone. I like this ! Also Najena heating up. Havent checked Dalnir but wouldnt be surprised this being busier. 2k pop is about right for the size of the map. More peeps the better.

Dalnir is basically always dead. Main problem is it’s one of the farthest dungeons from a port. Cant use OT hammer at that level so running there from SF takes awhile. Shame though because first floor alone has tons of mobs for viable xp and relatively easy to zone out.

Trios are the sweet spot in eq and one solution to overpopulation. Takes a lot less time to assemble one and An optimized trio can basically xp anywhere at a much faster rate than full groups where everyone gets to play their class to its fullest potential. Duos are good xp but the good combinations are more limited and not quite as fun from a social perspective than 3. It’s funny when you get /rude’s from people when you don’t invite them to your 3 when you’re holding down an area just fine. Never understood why most groups feel the need have 6 every time and risk offending people by not inviting them.

[Tuurin]

People should also read this - The Kunark Problem

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/kunark.php

So the question is, was Thott wrong, or just over-simplifying? His point was that what has become known as grinding in MMOGs would burn out most players, but I don't think that has proven true (at least for the P99 fringe). In fact grinding is/was arguably the most compelling part of the EQ experience- grinding exp, faction, plat, LDON tokens, keys, AAs, etc. all became basic tropes of EQ and probably the most compelling part of what kept people coming back.

In my perspective, once things became LESS grindy, the game lost it's flair and became pretty blah. PoK books, easy leveling (Palud Cav), mercs, bazaar, /melody, etc. all made the game "easier" and required less repetition, grinding, etc. which made me more inclined to try something else. It sounds odd, but for me at least true.

Or perhaps Thott was right and most of the (normal) players were turned off by grinding exp or whatever and went for greener (WOW) pastures, and P99 is all that's left of the deviants who actually like repetitive content?

[kotton05]

replace deviants with autists and dam you hit the nail on the head.

If you guys are truely curious there is a series on YouTube called “Death of a Game” or something close. Check it out for EQ and other mmos from this time.

[Kika Maslyaka]

So the question is, was Thott wrong, or just over-simplifying? His point was that what has become known as grinding in MMOGs would burn out most players, but I don't think that has proven true (at least for the P99 fringe). In fact grinding is/was arguably the most compelling part of the EQ experience- grinding exp, faction, plat, LDON tokens, keys, AAs, etc. all became basic tropes of EQ and probably the most compelling part of what kept people coming back.

In my perspective, once things became LESS grindy, the game lost it's flair and became pretty blah. PoK books, easy leveling (Palud Cav), mercs, bazaar, /melody, etc. all made the game "easier" and required less repetition, grinding, etc. which made me more inclined to try something else. It sounds odd, but for me at least true.

Or perhaps Thott was right and most of the (normal) players were turned off by grinding exp or whatever and went for greener (WOW) pastures, and P99 is all that's left of the deviants who actually like repetitive content?


Personally what I take from Thott thoughts is that large level spread in various zones and dungeons was bad design. Karnor should not have allowed people to go 45-60 in the same zone. Past lev 50, zones should never had more than 2 level ranges, continuously pushing people forward and making room for new comers. Rather than having everyone from 45 to 58 pile up in the same camps. So its not about grind itself, but rather distribution of grind across many different zones rather than just 2-3. People not get tired of killing mobs. They get tired of killing exact same mobs in exact same room for 5 levels straight.

And I think there is a difference between making game less grindy vs dumbing it down. Paludal was great zone design wise, but insane ZEM made it bad. There was no need what so ever to devalue old zones like that. It wasn't made to make game less grindy, it was made to sell expansion. By contrast MOST of Luclin zones were undeveloped empty and pretty much useless square boxes. Only a handful of zones were actually well made considering all the innovation Technics were already available at that time.

Also, a lot of people hated LDON for being copy-paste, theme-less & mindless auto-runs. And I agree. What I do like about LDONs that you could do a dungeon from start to finish to get to the end goal/end boss without just having to sit in 1 room for 5 hours. While LDON was simplistic it was also a foundation of future dungeon design for next gen MMOs.

[Tuurin]

Personally what I take from Thott thoughts is that large level spread in various zones and dungeons was bad design. Karnor should not have allowed people to go 45-60 in the same zone. Past lev 50, zones should never had more than 2 level ranges, continuously pushing people forward and making room for new comers. Rather than having everyone from 45 to 58 pile up in the same camps. So its not about grind itself, but rather distribution of grind across many different zones rather than just 2-3. People not get tired of killing mobs. They get tired of killing exact same mobs in exact same room for 5 levels straight.

And I think there is a difference between making game less grindy vs dumbing it down. Paludal was great zone design wise, but insane ZEM made it bad. There was no need what so ever to devalue old zones like that. It wasn't made to make game less grindy, it was made to sell expansion. By contrast MOST of Luclin zones were undeveloped empty and pretty much useless square boxes. Only a handful of zones were actually well made considering all the innovation Technics were already available at that time.

Also, a lot of people hated LDON for being copy-paste, theme-less & mindless auto-runs. And I agree. What I do like about LDONs that you could do a dungeon from start to finish to get to the end goal/end boss without just having to sit in 1 room for 5 hours. While LDON was simplistic it was also a foundation of future dungeon design for next gen MMOs.

IDK- I think you could make the argument that while of course game designers always want to sell expansions, they equally valued keeping customers happy (and paying monthly subs). They didn't accidentally make PC and some of the other expansion newb zones with a high ZEM. That was done intentionally to give people a chance to quickly get through the early stages of leveling and get a new character up to the point where it'd be relevant with raids, higher level content etc. where the larger concentration of players were. No grinding needed. Hell, WoW took it to the next level with WOTLK and let you just spawn a DK at like level 50, right? No need to even bother with Levels 1-49.

[kotton05]

One thing EQ got right (at the start) was not making each xpack nullify the last. It eventually snow balled but dam can we get an MMO that has a baseline of content that gets expanded on w/o making the last one almost useless?

One day some basement dwelling savant will make a game that satisfies everything we’ve ever wanted. Doubt it will ever be a big market company. Just look at the lore and time it took to really make classic what it is.

[Kika Maslyaka]

IDK- I think you could make the argument that while of course game designers always want to sell expansions, they equally valued keeping customers happy (and paying monthly subs). They didn't accidentally make PC and some of the other expansion newb zones with a high ZEM. That was done intentionally to give people a chance to quickly get through the early stages of leveling and get a new character up to the point where it'd be relevant with raids, higher level content etc. where the larger concentration of players were. No grinding needed. Hell, WoW took it to the next level with WOTLK and let you just spawn a DK at like level 50, right? No need to even bother with Levels 1-49.

Well kind of yeah. Oh DK was worse offender than that during entire time-frame of WOTLK it was the most overpowered class ever, which Blizz refused to acknowledge (to this day btw), because they wanted to sell the expansion. What I am trying to say this wasn't a game design philosophy move to "we change the game-play because we believe it will be better this way", it was "how do we make the most money the easiest way possible"?
LORE wise starting DKs at 50 did made sense. DK being insanely imbalanced was cheap money grab.

Going back to Luclin, I see it as a lot of good ideas, and more than a lot of poor or even lazy implementations. SOE was pushing to get the expansion out ASAP which resulted half of the zones being super-crappy, while another half badly underdeveloped. End game was also non existent at release, and VT had to be re-itemized 6 months later because it was super crap.
And the end game only had 2 full raid zones and few single raid targets here and there. It actually had less raid content than Velious.
On casual player level, once you left Paludal - the 20-50 range were mostly poorly made and poorly placed zones that people were very disappointed with.
Or lets take Luclin version of class armor quests for 30+ range - they were placed in Twilight Sea, a 30-40 zone that was sandwiched between 3x 45+ zones on all sides. So you are lev 30 player looking to start these quest how the heck you suppose to get there? Or better yet WHY would even bother???
In short- Luclin brought us like 2 dozen zones, out of which people used:
1-20 Paludal
20-35 Echo's (tiny zone with like a dozen mobs that were over-camped 24/7 because of zem and cash loot)
and raids. And nothing in between.

People keep saying Bazaar ruined Luclin. Well no, empty and useless 20+ zones ruined Luclin. Placing far out of the way zones with poor design, and no good incentive to go there was a growing EQ problem. And Luclin was a pinnacle of this. Each next expansion SOE would try to fix this by creating NEW HUBS for specific new content, first with PoP (which was good expansion otherwise), then with LOY, and finally with LDON - level from 20 to 65 without ever leaving one zone.

[torriadore]

This whole talk of zone overpopulation reminds me of old days of Planes of Power Elemental Planes (Ok mostly only Fire and Earth mainly) where multiple guilds would move in and all actions would slow to a crawl as the server started to heave under the pressure.

[beargryllz]

Enable PVP

Server population plummets

Population is culled

No more need for retarded raid rotation proposals, autistic fraps traps, or petition chains during raids

[rekreant]

I remember actually being decent human beings and organizing rotations between guilds on live. What a thought! Its not that this style of game is impossible, its that the type of player who still loves everquest today is a sick, toxic, and generally disgruntled piece of shit of a person.

[Kanuvan]

what a stupid thing to complain about especially when p99 is dead outside primetime weekends and the last remaining few cram into ZEM hotspots

[Swish2]

I remember actually being decent human beings and organizing rotations between guilds on live. What a thought! Its not that this style of game is impossible, its that the type of player who still loves everquest today is a sick, toxic, and generally disgruntled piece of shit of a person.

Drugs and disappointment outside of the game bleeds into it for some. Not me though, I'm mentally stable.