Agreements on bottlenecks in the new Chardok quests

[ajohnymous]

The quest:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Regal_Band_of_Bathezid_Quest

There are two significant bottlenecks: “a shady goblin” with a 24 hour respawn and “an angry goblin” with a three day respawn with 10% variance (not sure what the 10% means).

Once a lot of people get their faction up and start going for these, the best way for these is a /random on the “a shady goblin” like Scout, and having “an angry goblin” like the current Stormfeather camp.

Thoughts? Alternatives? What system best prevents player disputes, lawyer quest, and petition floods?

[cooler2442]

FTE.

[ajohnymous]

FTE.

You don’t kill them, you turn items in.

[cooler2442]

You don’t kill them, you turn items in.

Click fest like Ring War then or Scout used to be.

[aaezil]

I mean does turning in even despawn them?

[Ripqozko]

Rotation starting with aegis alliance

[ajohnymous]

I mean does turning in even despawn them?

Yes.

[loramin]

It's going to be a shit show. Someday it may become a sane player agreement-regulated thing, but you have to remember player agreements require everyone to participate. For a long time Scout wasn't GM enforced, and even once the roles started you still had assholes trying to click ahead instead of rolling. It was only when the entire server came together and agreed on the roll that the staff finally started treating it as a rule and punishing people who try to skip the roll.

So while I'd love to believe that the server could learn from the past and come up with a plan that everyone can agree to ... I just don't see that happening until enough of the man-children who would disrupt such agreements get their FTE wins in so that everyone else can agree to something without it being disrupted.

[cooler2442]

People from the hardcore guilds will not accept a roll agreement, it will be a total click fest. Casuals prepare.

[Morbo the Annihilator]

Shady goblin despawns immediately upon turn-in. so to the lowest ping go the spoils.

Angry goblin does NOT immediately despawn though, meaning that a click-fest will result in everyone handing their item in to him, just like Scout Charisa.

However, unlike Scout, Angry Goblin does not state who the winner was in his script. So everyone will have handed their thing in, but no one will know who actually got it in first.

Behold:

[Sun Feb 10 XX:XX:XX 2019] an angry goblin howls in triumph! 'This is just what I needed! Skargus is mine now, wait until he finds out, just wait! His death is close at hand. Follow me and I'll take you to Skargus's chamber, you can wait there while I take this report to the chief!'

[Sun Feb 10 XX:XX:XX 2019] an angry goblin shouts 'I have you now Skargus, you traitor! Even now I'm taking this report of slave-trading to the chief! Your days here are at an end!'

[Sun Feb 10 XX:XX:XX 2019] Warlord Skargus says 'I've gotta stop Gragbar before he turns in that report!'
(Gragbar is the name of the Angry Goblin, and not a PC name. It's a static part of the script)



Unless a player agreement is made to /random, it will just be a DPS (KS) race, and whoever loses will have also lost their Shady goblin turn-in.

[DallyLlama]

Rolling like scout makes the most sense. Being a mob that will take a couple of people, the best thing is everyone just helps kill it ASAP. Or else you have to watch the timer grow by an hour each turn in as the winner begs for help and people take a while to get to the mines. All guilds do it for scout and ring roll and it’s the best community thing this server has going for it.

[NegaStoat]

Calling it now - Ban Assault Bat Wings.

[Vapos]

The classic spawn timers on these sorts of quests was fine in the classic era, but I wish the staff would realize they were never meant for TLP servers. The Scout is bad enough at 10 hours (should be lowered, clearly), but 3 days? People will try and fail to win this roll for years. Senseless.

[Hibbs]

Ready your bat wings! *smirk*

[aaezil]

Another hadden disaster waiting to happen

[polishanarchy]

Don't see why something like this shouldn't follow the same course as Ring 8 / Scout.

[pasi]

Angry goblin was bad enough on live even through POP. This server has 50x the active player base when you factor in alts.

3 day spawn bottleneck for basically a BIS all/all item. This will be a clusterfuck until the inevitable heat death of the universe.

Would advise y'all to ask yourself if having some extra HP or ATK is worth it when everything in Velious is doable in Kunark gear.

[pasi]

Whoops, looks like angry goblin actually started out as a 5 day spawn (not sure if they made it 3 or 5 here)
https://www.graffes.com/forums/showthread.php?4757-chardok-ring-quests-need-help-pls

https://web.archive.org/web/20020301200909/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=7074&mid=101458891060747

[loramin]

The classic spawn timers on these sorts of quests was fine in the classic era, but I wish the staff would realize they were never meant for TLP servers.

Thank god this isn't a TLP server.

[Meiva]

I don't understand the rush. If this emulator has taught us anything, it should be patience. Let the turn in be a shitshow for a while. Then let's evaluate.

[Legidias]

I consistently went to scout rolls for about a year only missing the ones that were like 4am time or so (lul remote desktop playing from work).

Never won it once, had several 980+ rolls that got beat out by a 990+ (and one 991 roll that was beat out by a full 1000 roll).

Im excited for chardok 2.0 but fuck the bottlenecks lol.

[Meiva]

It's just symptoms of a (very fun and much appreciated) progression server with slow progression. Of course there are bottlenecks.

[loramin]

I don't understand the rush. If this emulator has taught us anything, it should be patience. Let the turn in be a shitshow for a while. Then let's evaluate.

This is 100% what will happen. Again, the staff doesn't step in and set rules for this kind of thing: it's just not what they do (ie. what they've done for the past decade or so that this server has existed).

For those that don't remember, Scout was a clickfest for quite a long time after Velious was released. It wasn't until a motivated group of players came together and said "we think the current system sucks, and we're going to work to make it better". Then all those players had to essentially browbeat every other person on the server who wanted Scout into joining them, until there were only a few true assholes left who wouldn't join.

That was the beautiful thing about it: the roll was 100% a player-initiated thing. On a server where everyone "competed" with everyone else, and where there was no template for a bunch of players being reasonable before, the Scout people invented a better way to play Everquest, and then put in the effort to try and get everyone to play that way.

So for everyone who wants to see sanity for the Chardok 2.0 quests, whining or begging the staff to intervene won't make it happen. Start organizing now to get people to agree to roll (say) two minutes before the spawn. It will not happen right away: I can guarantee there will be too many neckbeards initially who won't agree. But if it's ever going to happen it will happen because some players started an agreement, then convinced more players to join, and THEN the staff agrees to enforce it: that's how Scout happened, and that's how Chardok 2.0 rolls could happen.

P.S. And who knows, maybe it won't even be as hard as with Scout? Maybe the staff will decide the click fest makes more work for them, and they'll cement the player agreement when only 60% of players agree to it (instead of 95% or whatever with Scout).

[aaezil]

This is 100% what will happen. Again, the staff doesn't step in and set rules for this kind of thing: it's just not what they do (ie. what they've done for the past decade or so that this server has existed).

For those that don't remember, Scout was a clickfest for quite a long time after Velious was released. It wasn't until a motivated group of players came together and said "we think the current system sucks, and we're going to work to make it better". Then all those players had to essentially browbeat every other person on the server who wanted Scout into joining them, until there were only a few true assholes left who wouldn't join.

That was the beautiful thing about it: the roll was 100% a player-initiated thing. On a server where everyone "competed" with everyone else, and where there was no template for a bunch of players being reasonable before, the Scout people invented a better way to play Everquest, and then put in the effort to try and get everyone to play that way.

So for everyone who wants to see sanity for the Chardok 2.0 quests, whining or begging the staff to intervene won't make it happen. Start organizing now to get people to agree to roll (say) two minutes before the spawn. It will not happen right away: I can guarantee there will be too many neckbeards initially who won't agree. But if it's ever going to happen it will happen because some players started an agreement, then convinced more players to join, and THEN the staff agrees to enforce it: that's how Scout happened, and that's how Chardok 2.0 rolls could happen.

Terrible system. A handful of loud players whined about scout so it got changed? Many people never voted for it and it ended up being a small % of the server population making a rule for everyone on the server.

Staff should absolutely have something in place for this kind of thing. Either that or make p99 a lawless land (let the highest dps/lowest ping win in all things) but we all know that is not true.

The alternative is what? They look at hundreds of petitions till they get sick of it? Wait for players to do the work? Seems awful either of those ways.

[Hotel]

This is 100% what will happen. Again, the staff doesn't step in and set rules for this kind of thing: it's just not what they do (ie. what they've done for the past decade or so that this server has existed).

For those that don't remember, Scout was a clickfest for quite a long time after Velious was released. It wasn't until a motivated group of players came together and said "we think the current system sucks, and we're going to work to make it better". Then all those players had to essentially browbeat every other person on the server who wanted Scout into joining them, until there were only a few true assholes left who wouldn't join.

That was the beautiful thing about it: the roll was 100% a player-initiated thing. On a server where everyone "competed" with everyone else, and where there was no template for a bunch of players being reasonable before, the Scout people invented a better way to play Everquest, and then put in the effort to try and get everyone to play that way.

So for everyone who wants to see sanity for the Chardok 2.0 quests, whining or begging the staff to intervene won't make it happen. Start organizing now to get people to agree to roll (say) two minutes before the spawn. It will not happen right away: I can guarantee there will be too many neckbeards initially who won't agree. But if it's ever going to happen it will happen because some players started an agreement, then convinced more players to join, and THEN the staff agrees to enforce it: that's how Scout happened, and that's how Chardok 2.0 rolls could happen.

This is the fantasy land version of the current scout roll dynamic (that a lot of people don't like).

The idea that you get banned by GMs if you break this agreement should mean that it is an enforced GM rule not a player enforced rule.

[DMN]

I had flashbacks of drelzna being insta-gang raped by 30 people in a shoebox sized room for some reason.

[Erati]

A roll wouldnt be bad for 24 hour one but you cant roll off the 3 day w variance one

Someone saying SF camp 2.0 makes most sense based on what Morbo said IE angry goblin doesnt depop and will eat turn ins after first turn in IE entire reason ring roll existed bc people lost their entire rings

[loramin]

This is the fantasy land version of the current scout roll dynamic (that a lot of people don't like).

The idea that you get banned by GMs if you break this agreement should mean that it is an enforced GM rule not a player enforced rule.

I love when people contradict me but fail to provide any sort of counterpoint whatsoever (let alone evidence for it).

But I'll bite anyway: what's "fantasy land" about what I wrote?

[kotton05]

Wow loramin took the bait !

[aaezil]

Lol

https://dgcissuetracker.com/browse/EQ-1918

[danceparty]

100% in for roll fam

[Frumplevernvern]

Roll isn't going to work for a mob with a 5+ hour window.

Clickfest isn't going to work when the mob eats all the turn-ins AND there's no message indicating who won.

Stormfeather rules are the only thing that makes sense.

[Senescant]

Both should just be rolls.

Roll isn't going to work for a mob with a 5+ hour window.

Just have it be a roll when the window opens.

[mcoy]

So far we've gotten everyone at the spawn to agree on making the angry spawn a roll. Trying to start this one off right...

-Mcoy

[loramin]

So far we've gotten everyone at the spawn to agree on making the angry spawn a roll. Trying to start this one off right...

-Mcoy

https://i.imgur.com/9FttIcb.gif

[mcoy]

And I meant the shady in my previous comment - but angry as well, definitely!

-Mcoy

[aaezil]

Angry goblin wont be a roll cool story though

[clacbec]

Make chardok pvp flagged

[Briscoe]

Make chardok pvp flagged

You mean Droga?

[Wonkie]

Ah dude, 10 atk 2 regen leather wrist?!? AUGHH! Ughaughhh.