A Shady Goblin (Ring Roll) in Warsilk Woods

[Hibbs]

you guys will have more luck with a roll once the autofire people get their quests done and theres no longer any incentive not to handle this like adults

Until those people show back up on their 4th alt doing the quest lol:rolleyes:

[aaezil]

Also people like kelza who got his cord mqed to him and finished but still shows up to shady goblin roll to get ring 2 and sell mq

[kjs86z]

Until those people show back up on their 4th alt doing the quest lol:rolleyes:

Yeah. Like Scout.

[LazyHydras]

So is it a click fiesta now or was it just an isolated incident of Siryadoitis?

[aaezil]

isolated incident been a roll every time since agreement was made cept him (hopefully ban inc)

[Llandris]

If everyone else is rolling and you decide that it doesn't apply to you, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Kelzar]

Pras Llandris

[Freakish]

Prove it.

[Kelzar]

http://wiki.project1999.com/A_shady_goblin/Player_Agreement

[aaezil]

kelzar has cords and is rolling at shady to sell ring 2 MQ can he be banned from ww as well too thanks

[loramin]

If everyone else is rolling and you decide that it doesn't apply to you, you're gonna have a bad time.

So Siryado is banned now? The server is a much better place for it.

[Wonkie]

democracy is mob rule :)

[loramin]

democracy is mob rule :)

But P99 is not a democracy, it's a consensus (minus one) system. You can't just get ten people to say "we want system X and there's only nine other people here so we get our way." It's "this only works if everyone ... except maybe that one freak named Siryado ... agrees".

Personally I'm a huge fan of consensus systems (I was chair of my college's student government for three terms and we ran everything by consensus; surprisingly it worked great). They're way harder to establish, but (depending on what you're doing) worth the trouble because they're way more stable.

[Senescant]

So Siryado is banned now? The server is a much better place for it.

We should only hope. If they merely suspended him and deleted his quest item we'll have to suffer his nonsense for the window (until the unclassic variance is removed.).

Also, thanks for the clarification Llandris.

[Wonkie]

But P99 is not a democracy, it's a consensus (minus one) system. You can't just get ten people to say "we want system X and there's only nine other people here so we get our way." It's "this only works if everyone ... except maybe that one freak named Siryado ... agrees".

Personally I'm a huge fan of consensus systems (I was chair of my college's student government for three terms and we ran everything by consensus; surprisingly it worked great). They're way harder to establish, but (depending on what you're doing) worth the trouble because they're way more stable.

what ratio of dissent will abrogate the roll agreement?

also it was a joke :)

[aaezil]

what ratio of dissent will abrogate the roll agreement?

also it was a joke :)

That was actually discussed at the formation of the agreement... if there was a good population of folks insisting on clickfest (not just 1 or 2 vs 25) then there obviously wouldnt be grounds for a consensus and nobody would be talking about an agreement being made. What actually happened is everyone except 1 agreed to stand off spawn and roll.

[Senescant]

Actually, everyone agreed to roll and Siryado still clicked it in anyways.

[Mon Feb 18 15:00:08 2019] Siryado says, 'roll when it pop'
[Mon Feb 18 15:00:13 2019] Siryado says, 'pray u dont get fucked oer'
[Mon Feb 18 15:03:30 2019] Siryado says, 'weer fcking rolling'
[Mon Feb 18 15:36:34 2019] Siryado says, 'were rolling if floppin wins we all reroll'
[Mon Feb 18 15:43:51 2019] Siryado says, 'i got two chances to win'
[Mon Feb 18 15:43:55 2019] Siryado says, 'my rol and flopins rol'

[loramin]

what ratio of dissent will abrogate the roll agreement?

also it was a joke :)

There's insight even in your joking :) As Aaezil mentioned the exact degree of consensus was discussed, because it's never been set here. It seems pretty clear that "everyone but one asshole who wants to click" = consensus here, but it's unclear whether two assholes could shut down the entire agreement or not (and if not, would three be enough? etc.)

And then of course there's the time factor: Scout has been established for awhile, so even if three clickers showed up I still think the roll would be supported by staff ... but it's unclear if the same would be true for Shady.

Personally I think the staff could make all this a heck of a lot easier with some basic guidelines, but I also respect their desire to hold back and not try and force anything on the community that "the community" doesn't want. And I think waiting for a consensus is a totally reasonable way to do it ... as long as the one freak who thinks they can cut ahead of everyone by breaking that consensus doesn't get to benefit from that cutting ahead.

Actually, everyone agreed to roll and Siryado still clicked it in anyways.

And this is why I think he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It'd be one thing if he'd made a "principled" stand against rolling and said "I'm going to click anyway", but agreeing to the roll, rolling, and then cutting ahead when he didn't win should absolutely be punishable.

[Alanus]

If everyone else is rolling and you decide that it doesn't apply to you, you're gonna have a bad time.

Thank you!

[LazyHydras]

So, can we revisit the 5 second roll and make it 10 or 15? Or does Kelz own the roll at this point?

[spanky_kc]

So, can we revisit the 5 second roll and make it 10 or 15? Or does Kelz own the roll at this point?

You do know that it wasn't Kelz that wanted the 5 sec rule?

[LazyHydras]

You do know that it wasn't Kelz that wanted the 5 sec rule?

Your point?

Let's get back on track, shall we?

Can we PLEASE extend the 5 second roll thing? How much sense does it make if someone is present at window start, stays the whole window, but wins the roll at 7 seconds instead of 5?

[Kelzar]

Im sorry you were chatting today for hours non stop, and when the roll actually happened you missed it, cuz possibly typing in chat Id guess Nephinine =(

Thats the point of the 5 seconds, to cause that people who wants it needs to be alert and paying atention to the game "minimally".

And as Spanky_kc said, the 5 seconds rule was the consensus of the mass.

[LazyHydras]

I wasn't typing when it popped. Looked away at wiki, looked back, hit enter.

[LazyHydras]

Is the 5 second rule the "consensus of the mass" now? Somehow I highly doubt that of the 20 or 25 people present at roll, that a majority or even a strong plurality think that it should be 5 seconds and any roll after 5 seconds, even if it's at 5.1034234 seconds, should be DQd.

This is a quest which SOLELY REQUIRES warmly faction with Droga. This is not a quest the results of which directly yield a BiS item or anything near as competitive.

[Wonkie]

Is the 5 second rule the "consensus of the mass" now? Somehow I highly doubt that of the 20 or 25 people present at roll, that a majority or even a strong plurality think that it should be 5 seconds and any roll after 5 seconds, even if it's at 5.1034234 seconds, should be DQd.

This is a quest which SOLELY REQUIRES warmly faction with Droga. This is not a quest the results of which directly yield a BiS item or anything near as competitive.

look buddy, this server is about competition. we need to compete to see who's the best at rolling within 5 seconds of spawn. if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen! :)

[Polixa]

look buddy, this server is about competition. we need to compete to see who's the best at rolling within 5 seconds of spawn. if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen! :)

God, I hope that was meant with irony.


Edit, saw your smiley, of course it was...

[Not_Mikeo]

Sorry Bro, too slow!

If you'd rather click instead let us know.

[loramin]

And as Spanky_kc said, the 5 seconds rule was the consensus of the mass.

It was not. There were one or two people who were super concerned that someone could play EQ at work, setup a GINA trigger, and then switch back in time to roll when the goblin spawned. The idea that someone could do this greatly offended those (again, one or two) people, so they insisted on a short roll period (which started at 10 seconds, not 5) to prevent this horrible scenario from occurring. And those same people also threatened to use this horrible scenario of a guy at work as the boogeyman to justify why they shouldn't have to roll in the first place.

Everyone else was pretty much like "that is fucking stupid, but if it's what we all have to agree to to make rolls happen instead of clicks then sure, a short roll it is." So it was a rule, produced by the masses, using a consensus system, but the whole point of consensus systems is that they force the majority to adopt things to make the minorities happy. It was not true that a consensus of Shady rollers actually wanted short rolls.

[aaezil]

Is this somewhat similar to the fear that brown people will come into the USA and steal your jobs?

[LazyHydras]

Is this somewhat similar to the fear that brown people will come into the USA and steal your jobs?

Boy, that escalated quickly.

[Kluwen2]

One could just setup their keyboard to spam /random 0 1000 every 5 seconds during the duration of the window yeah?

[hobart]

One could just setup their keyboard to spam /random 0 1000 every 5 seconds during the duration of the window yeah?

They could also get a lot of their friend's accounts banned for RMT yeah? Makes sense you'd be the one to figure out how to cheat the system, officer.

[loramin]

One could just setup their keyboard to spam /random 0 1000 every 5 seconds during the duration of the window yeah?

The GINA thing is 100% legal according to the server rules, because it doesn't interact with the EQ software it all (it works by reading a log file that the software creates, but that log file can't affect the game at all). Once GINA detects the goblin, it has to wait for the human to hear the alert and come click the /random macro.

However, the moment you have any sort of program "spamming" or even just pressing a single key, even if the "program" is just your programmable keyboard or gamepad, you've violated the server rules. Most likely the anti-cheat code will catch you, but if not the players or the GMs eventually will.

[Kluwen2]

They could also get a lot of their friend's accounts banned for RMT yeah? Makes sense you'd be the one to figure out how to cheat the system, officer.

I'm sorry you were inconvenienced for a few hours. You're welcome for all your pixels. If your accounts remained banned then you likely were involved or had prior RMT.

[aaezil]

The GINA thing is 100% legal according to the server rules, because it doesn't interact with the EQ software it all (it works by reading a log file that the software creates, but that log file can't affect the game at all). Once GINA detects the goblin, it has to wait for the human to hear the alert and come click the /random macro.

However, the moment you have any sort of program "spamming" or even just pressing a single key, even if the "program" is just your programmable keyboard or gamepad, you've violated the server rules. Most likely the anti-cheat code will catch you, but if not the players or the GMs eventually will.

You didn't know that virtually everyone who tracks (lodi/any raid mob/etc) on p99 uses spamming keyboards or software? Still waiting on those bans...

[loramin]

You didn't know that virtually everyone who tracks (lodi/any raid mob/etc) on p99 uses spamming keyboards or software? Still waiting on those bans...

Ok first off I strongly suspect know you're exaggerating. Even if I bought that everyone who did Lodi was ok with cheating, and chose to do so, I simply don't buy that everyone who wants to do Lodi is technologically sophisticated enough to install and use such a program ;)

I also don't buy that no one has ever eaten a ban, since I remember people getting caught auto-clicking back before Scout was a roll. So I really don't think the problem is as bad as you make it out to be.

But do some raiders and some Lodi farmers cheat and get away with it? Probably. We've got a 100% all volunteer staff, and they don't have time to watch every keypress on the server. Plus I'm sure that catching some auto-key pressing is difficult, if it comes from a programmable gamepad or keyboard: you can't just detect them automatically, you have to catch them in the act.

And ... so what? We still get to play on a 100% free server, that server still has rules which most people follow most of the time, and the few cheaters don't take away my fun. If I think someone is using a cheat tool I'll totally report them, and based on this server's history (of the GMs/Guides enforcing all the other rules when someone reports a violation) I'd expect them to step in and get involved.

But don't try to exaggerate things like you took some poll of all raiders and Lodi farmers and confirmed the staff don't give a crap about their own rules. If you really feel it's a problem, /petition some people, and find out if it's a rule the staff cares about enforcing.

[aaezil]

Ok first off I strongly suspect know you're exaggerating. Even if I bought that everyone who did Lodi was ok with cheating, and chose to do so, I simply don't buy that everyone who wants to do Lodi is technologically sophisticated enough to install and use such a program ;)

I also don't buy that no one has ever eaten a ban, since I remember people getting caught auto-clicking back before Scout was a roll. So I really don't think the problem is as bad as you make it out to be.

But do some raiders and some Lodi farmers cheat and get away with it? Probably. We've got a 100% all volunteer staff, and they don't have time to watch every keypress on the server. Plus I'm sure that catching some auto-key pressing is difficult, if it comes from a programmable gamepad or keyboard: you can't just detect them automatically, you have to catch them in the act.

And ... so what? We still get to play on a 100% free server, that server still has rules which most people follow most of the time, and the few cheaters don't take away my fun. If I think someone is using a cheat tool I'll totally report them, and based on this server's history (of the GMs/Guides enforcing all the other rules when someone reports a violation) I'd expect them to step in and get involved.

But don't try to exaggerate things like you took some poll of all raiders and Lodi farmers and confirmed the staff don't give a crap about their own rules. If you really feel it's a problem, /petition some people, and find out if it's a rule the staff cares about enforcing.

I didnt take a poll every single person at lodi with a pet is using a keyboard/mouse/or program that lets them spam /pet attack. I dont know why you seem to think this isnt the case? Maybe youve never been there. There are no bans for that happening.

[Shinko]

i got lodi and i stream my spamming so

[Viscere]

Shut the fuck up

[Wonkie]

I didnt take a poll every single person at lodi with a pet is using a keyboard/mouse/or program that lets them spam /pet attack. I dont know why you seem to think this isnt the case? Maybe youve never been there. There are no bans for that happening.

https://i.imgur.com/fmGvgy7.gif

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/fmGvgy7.gif

:)

[Smurflogik]

30 pages. Too much to read.

...so what time is the roll?

[maximum]

Respawn happened today, but not upon server reset. The group there is still trying to determine if the spawn is actually 24 hours (no variance), 26 hours (no variance), or what (something else)...

The rolling rules (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_shady_goblin/Player_Agreement) are still in effect AFAIK.

[mcoy]

Can't believe I managed to randomly log in just after a quake, and there was no one around...

[Sun Apr 07 22:05:53 2019] You say, 'Hail, a shady goblin'
[Sun Apr 07 22:05:54 2019] a shady goblin says, 'If yer not my contact ya best be movin' on. Got no time to waste on ya.'
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:02 2019] a shady goblin gapes at the note in puzzlement, obviously a bit concerned by it. The courier looks at the note for more than a minute, then looks at you, and back at the note. 'Errm.. welp, dunno what to make of the note. If I know the right of it, Skargus finally got him some girly to do his writin' for him. Ooooh I bet she's a tasty one, graarr. If I was warlord I know I'd have me a girly too. Gah, take this report and get outta my sight.'
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:05 2019] Game Time: Friday, March 27, 3137 - 11 PM
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:05 2019] Earth Time: Sunday, April 07, 2019 22:06:05

There's the timer - good luck to the next person!

-Mcoy

[loramin]

Can't believe I managed to randomly log in just after a quake, and there was no one around...

[Sun Apr 07 22:05:53 2019] You say, 'Hail, a shady goblin'
[Sun Apr 07 22:05:54 2019] a shady goblin says, 'If yer not my contact ya best be movin' on. Got no time to waste on ya.'
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:02 2019] a shady goblin gapes at the note in puzzlement, obviously a bit concerned by it. The courier looks at the note for more than a minute, then looks at you, and back at the note. 'Errm.. welp, dunno what to make of the note. If I know the right of it, Skargus finally got him some girly to do his writin' for him. Ooooh I bet she's a tasty one, graarr. If I was warlord I know I'd have me a girly too. Gah, take this report and get outta my sight.'
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:05 2019] Game Time: Friday, March 27, 3137 - 11 PM
[Sun Apr 07 22:06:05 2019] Earth Time: Sunday, April 07, 2019 22:06:05

There's the timer - good luck to the next person!

-Mcoy

Congrats Mcoy!

P.S. What timezone is that?

[mcoy]

Sorry, should have specified - it's EST or UTC -5. It was about 6 minutes ago.

-Mcoy

[Alanus]

Thank god this is fixed. Sounds like I will have to log in tonight at 9 cst :)

[mcoy]

Well, we're not sure if it's 24 hours or not - most are hoping that it isn't so that it moves across timezones. We'll see what time it spawns tonight and hopefully someone will post it.

-Mcoy

[loramin]

So it looks like it is a 24-hour window: Shady Goblin popped at the same time tonight.

[Alanus]

Oh man I went AFK, totally forgot about it and missed the roll. Good to know I just need to be on around 9 CST for now