Drusella Player Agreement?

[seananetsberger]

Since the entire ring quest line is a /random... Why not make Drusella spawn a /random 1 minute before pop... Right now, its a arms race to see who can hold the camp for longer. So far, kelzaraz likes to hold it for 12-14 hours before pop....
Can we all agree this level of neckbeard is toxic for humans in general?
I for one, think we should just /random it like civilized humans.

[aaezil]

Kelza already has cords why is he there? Hello?

[seananetsberger]

he said "have you ever heard of... alts" to me today.

[aaezil]

Can we do something about him thank you staff

[seananetsberger]

I think if we make a player made agreement we can take control of the neckbeards? LOL

[feniin]

His pixels are more important than your pixels.

[seananetsberger]

His pixels are more important than your pixels.

His RL is less important than our RL

[azeth]

His pixels are more important than your pixels.

If he is spending 14 hours of his life attaining them, then yes I'd say so. Looks like he just wants it more.

[seananetsberger]

If he is spending 14 hours of his life attaining them, then yes I'd say so. Looks like he just wants it more.

Ok so i guess we will set up 15 hours early then.
Then he will se tup 16.
Then we will set up 17
Then he will set up 18
Then we will set up 20
Then he will perma camp it 24-7

ARMS RACE BEGIN! TOXIC P99 NECKBEARDS UNITE!

[Sonark]

Reset Drusella's Tomb of Fear

[Hotel]

Sorry you can't get the camp loser.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/363453865485402123/553265699385114624/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/363453865485402123/553269171572703258/unknown.png

BTW,

remember when your guild killed your first ToV dragon and you got the loot. Some dank leadership you got going on. Grats on your shovel.

[icedwards]

Neckbeards are gonna neckbeard. Those 12-14 hour extreme poopsock sessions won't last forever, give it a month or two and you'll see more reasonable times at Drusella.

[seananetsberger]

Neckbeards are gonna neckbeard. Those 12-14 hour extreme poopsick sessions won't last forever, give it a month or two and you'll see more reasonable times at Drusella.

right if this is so, then why not just make angry/shady a clickfest?

[loramin]

right if this is so, then why not just make angry/shady a clickfest?

Because clickfests are unfair; this isn't rocket science. With a random roll everyone participating has an equal chance. With a clickfest people who use autofire and people with especially low latency connections have a huge advantage over everyone else.

[azeth]

right if this is so, then why not just make angry/shady a clickfest?

This could cause people, neckbeards and CS included, to lose their items. This is a completely different scenario than locking a camp.

[icedwards]

right if this is so, then why not just make angry/shady a clickfest?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Velious was defeated in Kunark gear day 1 of launch and these new shiny chardok pixels aren't going anywhere. Stressing about Kelz (who is by far the biggest turbo nerd I've ever crossed paths with on this server) is a waste of my time, and I imagine yours too.

[seananetsberger]

Yeah. I'd just hope we could all be civilized and make it easier on everyone than perma camping 24-7 for something like drusella. Seems silly that we cant just make an easy agreement to /random the spawn like we do so many other things. O well. Moving on.

[thiz1234]

Sorry you didn’t get your urn/mirror.

[azeth]

Yeah. I'd just hope we could all be civilized and make it easier on everyone than perma camping 24-7 for something like drusella. Seems silly that we cant just make an easy agreement to /random the spawn like we do so many other things. O well. Moving on.

Consider Joe Schmoe wins the /random to get the camp. Then he fucks up and dies because the camp isn't a cake walk solo.

Now what?

[seananetsberger]

Consider Joe Schmoe wins the /random to get the camp. Then he fucks up and dies because the camp isn't a cake walk solo.

Now what?

You random at the door of the camp, everyone who randoms helps kill it. Like every other random out there.

[azeth]

You random at the door of the camp, everyone who randoms helps kill it. Like every other random out there.

No, this is not like every other random.

For the Ring, once someone turns in their ring the NPC is no longer accessible for another turn in. So if the turn-in person fails their Giant fight at the Rygorr fort, that doesn't open the opportunity for another person to try. Therefore there is NO incentive to allow that person to fail - so you help.

At Drusella, if you fail... I swoop in. She doesn't despawn if you die.

[Lordgordon]

Kelz is a piece of human garbage

[seananetsberger]

No, this is not like every other random.

For the Ring, once someone turns in their ring the NPC is no longer accessible for another turn in. So if the turn-in person fails their Giant fight at the Rygorr fort, that doesn't open the opportunity for another person to try. Therefore there is NO incentive to allow that person to fail - so you help.

At Drusella, if you fail... I swoop in. She doesn't despawn if you die.

Thats true, i realized that there were differences. I was just hoping that we could all shave our beards a little today and have 1 less annoying mob to contend with. It would save everyone 12-24 hours of camping.

Agreement:
Show up 15 minutes before the pop.
Clear the room and hold it.
/random 1 minute before spawn.
Kill drusella. Winner loots.
Log out, try again tomorrow.

Result:
No one has to arms race for the camp which will inevitably result in a 24-7 camp hold sooner or later.
Save everyone the time and effort with a chance to win via /random 1000.
Spend 15 minutes per day on it, rather than 12-24h

[Sonark]

If we were ever want to re-open the book on developer's intentions, this sort of stuff is absolutely at the top of the list.

It all comes back to one lonely nerd and his quest for imagined power.

[RedXIII]

Can't wait to /random for Vulak. I think its totally normal and cool. And it would stop the neckbeards. Whoever wins get the loot, and everyone else helps the kill.

Lets do this! \o/

[seananetsberger]

Can't wait to /random for Vulak. I think its totally normal and cool. And it would stop the neckbeards. Whoever wins get the loot, and everyone else helps the kill.

Lets do this! \o/

vulak is different in way too many ways to compare it to this proposed roll.
Infrastructure
16h window
Raid force

Drusella is duo, 24h no variance, easy to get to.

[Oleris]

Sorry you can't get the camp loser.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/363453865485402123/553265699385114624/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/363453865485402123/553269171572703258/unknown.png

BTW,

remember when your guild killed your first ToV dragon and you got the loot. Some dank leadership you got going on. Grats on your shovel.

Wow. I see no difference in camping something like elder beads in the past. You are killing and it can take 12-18 hours to get a drop. If they are killing at the camp it's his.

[seananetsberger]

nevermind ya'll dont wanna spend 15minutes instead of 12 hours. makes perfect sense

[icedwards]

nevermind ya'll dont wanna spend 15minutes instead of 12 hours. makes perfect sense

It's only 12 hours now because of one neckbeard. He'll move on, and the next alpha neckbeard will take his place. Eventually that camp will become much more reasonable. The questline is bottlenecked enough rolling for each and every step prior.

[Isildur]

lol @ randoming for drusella

[Sonark]

lol @ at the idea that someone even has to suggest that

[Kazik]

While we're at it can we just /rand all the spawns in EQ?

At the very least lets /rand Guardian Kozzalym (AKA Blood Guard Vulak).

[Isildur]

/random 1000

[Dirkus]

Drusella class system?

[seananetsberger]

all good guys.Was just a suggestion or an idea. I wanted to get a response on it. It appears, it is badly received.
No need to troll, or be rude. Just a simple convo :) TY guys for your time. Appreciate the input! enjoy your time on p99! I know i love playing here ! Goodluck to all who camp it, i hope it drops every time!

[Isildur]

all good guys.Was just a suggestion or an idea. I wanted to get a response on it. It appears, it is badly received.
No need to troll, or be rude. Just a simple convo :) TY guys for your time. Appreciate the input! enjoy your time on p99! I know i love playing here ! Goodluck to all who camp it, i hope it drops every time!

Be well wary traveler!

[Vilkata]

I see 2 problems with Drusella. The cords can be MQ by someone with the second ring and when I tested this quest on live last year, the urn was a semi rare drop. The big raiding guilds will hold this camp a very long time till all their alts have the cords and then some. Might even start selling the loot rights.

[Optti]

how is camping an item toxic? this is eq...

this forum is retarded

[loramin]

all good guys.Was just a suggestion or an idea. I wanted to get a response on it. It appears, it is badly received.
No need to troll, or be rude. Just a simple convo :) TY guys for your time. Appreciate the input! enjoy your time on p99! I know i love playing here ! Goodluck to all who camp it, i hope it drops every time!

Can I just say how refreshing and great this guy's naivete is? Like a few years ago the idea of the whole server agreeing to random and then help on anything would have been laughable.

It's actually really cool that we've been able to go from that to having several (reliable) rolls, where everyone helps out afterwards ... to the point where newer players are starting out expecting that!

[seananetsberger]

how is camping an item toxic? this is eq...

this forum is retarded

camping a mob w/ a ph for 12 makes sense. camping a room on a mob w/ a 24h no variance timer to secure it sucks. Like i said. O well to making it easier on everyone.
TY for your input tho. Appreciate you <3

[seananetsberger]

Can I just say how refreshing and great this guy's naivete is? Like a few years ago on this server the idea of the whole server agreeing to random and then help on anything would have seen laughable.

It's actually really cool that we've been able to go from that to having several (reliable) rolls, where everyone helps out afterwards ... to the point where newer players are starting out expecting that!

I was around for the clickfest scout too.
Im not expecting it. Im proposing it. TY for your input tho!

[seananetsberger]

I see 2 problems with Drusella. The cords can be MQ by someone with the second ring and when I tested this quest on live last year, the urn was a semi rare drop. The big raiding guilds will hold this camp a very long time till all their alts have the cords and then some. Might even start selling the loot rights.

Agreed. It seems to be a 70% drop rate or so from what i've tallied.
Not bad, but not 100%!

[Castigate]

The problem with this sort of agreement on Drusella is its literally a camp. No variance, no FTE message, room full of mobs to clear, spawns inside a dungeon, you just kill the mob when it spawns.
It fits every definition of a camp that I can think of, and I'm happy as fuck that I got my urn when she was still spawning at 5:30am instead of prime time.
Another rumble will happen at some point though, and that will change her spawn timer, and eventually people will lose track of it allowing others to swoop in.

Also the fact that its a rare drop further complicates any sort of roll idea.

[seananetsberger]

The problem with this sort of agreement on Drusella is its literally a camp. No variance, no FTE message, room full of mobs to clear, spawns inside a dungeon, you just kill the mob when it spawns.
It fits every definition of a camp that I can think of, and I'm happy as fuck that I got my urn when she was still spawning at 5:30am instead of prime time.
Another rumble will happen at some point though, and that will change her spawn timer, and eventually people will lose track of it allowing others to swoop in.

Also the fact that its a rare drop further complicates any sort of roll idea.

All those points make perfect sense! Thanks for thought out input. It would be a complicated roll compared to say...
a 24-28 hour variance spawn w/ a 5 second roll timer.

[Fifield]

Eq rewards those able to game all day.

Take the halfling mask camp for example. I don't have hours and days to camp it. So someone who has the time will for me and I'll pay them. Then I'll make money doing things that take 1-2hrs if being online.

Selfish plug to wtb halfling mask.

[Castigate]

All those points make perfect sense! Thanks for thought out input. It would be a complicated roll compared to say...
a 24-28 hour variance spawn w/ a 5 second roll timer.

That's a quest turn in though, not a camp. Also the drop rate is no more than 1/3, or at least was not in the first 3 weeks.

[Fifield]

I'm also surprised that it isn't camped 24/7. I thought it would be from day one. 12hrs means the camp is open for awhile. Step your game up poopsockers!

[seananetsberger]

That's a quest turn in though, not a camp. Also the drop rate is no more than 1/3, or at least was not in the first 3 weeks.

agreed, it is a turn in.

[Not_Mikeo]

Sadly I think we're stuck with DS as a camp. If you're not willing to wake up at 3am, sit at a computer all day, neglect your health, family, friends, tan skin tone, etc. and someone else is, then obviously you don't want it enough.

Some people are willing to wake up ass early in the morning to sock DS or stare at a wall waiting for a goblin to spawn so they can roll within 5 seconds, and other will wait to do it until they can fit it in their lives.

You need to decide how important is this 20 year old elf sim to you. Is it the most important thing in your life and how you value yourself based on how BIS your monk and bard are (despite not having a ST shroud so you're not really BIS)? Or is it just a game?

[Erati]

I blame whoever made Lucan a camp!

It set a precedent of clearing non-placeholders as something important.

Classic Everquest camps always were whether the PH of what you were camping is down or not. If PH is up and youre not killing it, you don’t have the camp. Somewhere down the line this changed on P99 tho...

[Jan Jensen]

Move along, nothing to see here beyond people way too invested in 20 year old loot on an emulated server that gives them meaning.

[kjs86z]

lol @ anyone even doing this quest to begin with

ass cancer

the only reasonable step in the entire quest line is getting the first ring....and this is where all mentally healthy people will stop

[Clazxiss]

Come to red where Drussela hangs around, alive and well!

[icedwards]

Come to red where Drussela hangs around, alive and well!

No she isn't, you filthy liar.

[Clazxiss]

No she isn't, you filthy liar.

Pretty sure she is. Just like how Verina Tomb is up as we speak.

[aaezil]

Imagine all mobs being up on a server with 10 people on it

[Clearmind]

Killed DS 5 times no urn dropped. Glad I stopped doing that pita quest and looted cords instead :) will sell you LR if you want next!

[Mickets]

Do you guys think its a coincidence that she also drops an item called Mirror of Self Loathing?

[elwing]

As much as I am a proponent of rolls for clickfest, a roll for drusela is one of the dumbest idea that I have ever heard...

[feniin]

As much as I am a proponent of rolls for clickfest, a roll for drusela is one of the dumbest idea that I have ever heard...

Dang. Can't even support your guild leader?

[Erati]

As much as I am a proponent of rolls for clickfest, a roll for drusela is one of the dumbest idea that I have ever heard...

Its pretty dumb you can kill non-phs for a mob and consider that giving you the right to the mob as well.

If you spawned a named by killing its PHs thats a sign you are camping it as the named mob wouldnt have appeared without the act of you clearing aka camping the placeholder.

However when a mob will spawn on its own requiring no placeholders to be camped and cleared then your only putting yourself in good position to engage the mob first but nothing the player did up until that point had any relevance to the mob itself spawning. Sounds like FTE to me...

[Peener]

Had a question about Drusella.

Verina Tomb in Neriak doesn't have any PH's. Like Drusella, she's pops in a room with her own spawn timer. Afaik you can't claim Verina as 'camped' just by killing guards in the rooms around her.

Could someone clarify why Drusella is considered a camp and Verina isn't?

[Erati]

Had a question about Drusella.

Verina Tomb in Neriak doesn't have any PH's. Like Drusella, she's pops in a room with her own spawn timer. Afaik you can't claim Verina as 'camped' just by killing guards in the rooms around her.

Could someone clarify why Drusella is considered a camp and Verina isn't?

Yep this is what I just brought up in the post above. Should be FTE like other things that spawn on their own.

[Magerin]

The problem with your idea of "random 1 min before spawn" is that you dont need any progression to run in and roll. You'll get every casual and their alts showing up worse than Scout roll. 100HP items will bring out all that's bad about the open /ran system. That mob was gonna be the major bottle neck, I knew that the moment I looked at the quest...you should have seen this coming too. Give it some will power and you'll find it open one of these days. Kelza gets there way too early anyways. Most people wont take that camp as seriously as he will be for the foreseeable future.

[Magerin]

Yep this is what I just brought up in the post above. Should be FTE like other things that spawn on their own.

FTEing the mob would again give people with Autofire and low latency another huge advantage. The idea of agreements is to limit the "who has a better connection and uses autofire" game. Also, no FTE, therefore its a camp, not a raid mob open for FTEing.

[Erati]

FTEing the mob would again give people with Autofire and low latency another huge advantage. The idea of agreements is to limit the "who has a better connection and uses autofire" game. Also, no FTE, therefore its a camp, not a raid mob open for FTEing.

So its not just raid mobs that fall under FTE, every noob yard basically operates under “FTE” rules and many other examples. And just because you feel FTE is “unfair” doesnt mean you redefine what camping a mob even is.

Its also pretty crazy people rather see this camped for 10+ hours when there is 0 variance and the spawn rights can be handled pre pop with who is there.

[Moerne]

ToV windows open tomorrow and Kelz will be busy socking FTE’s. Why not just wait and move in then.

[Peener]

Its also pretty crazy people rather see this camped for 10+ hours when there is 0 variance and the spawn rights can be handled pre pop with who is there.

Agreed.

FTEing the mob would again give people with Autofire and low latency another huge advantage. The idea of agreements is to limit the "who has a better connection and uses autofire" game. Also, no FTE, therefore its a camp, not a raid mob open for FTEing.

This doesn't answer my question about why this particular spawn is a camp and others like it are not.

[Magerin]

The general guideline that makes DS a camp is the fact that it's in a room with 7 other spawns, doesn't have a 100% drop rate on her loot, no turn in is required. From all major indicators of this mob/camp nothing about it even hints that it's even intended to be a raid mob. Its got a fixed spawn duration, no yellow text, not in a raid zone, can be solo'd, duo'd, grouped. . . Only reason the push for FTE rules is to fast track peoples way to an 100HP item without having to camp it.

I very much disagree with this bully tactic to change this rule set to suit people with better connections who use autofire. I speak as someone who doesnt have the type of connection that would allow me to ever win they type of camp, nor do i resort to that type of game play to win. If they move DS to a raid zone, give her yellow text and add a window, sure, lets fte rule it, but you cant be past zone line when she spawns or your DQ'd. Since that isnt happening, a camp she shall remain.

[Magerin]

This doesn't answer my question about why this particular spawn is a camp and others like it are not.

Give me an example mob thats not in a raid zone, no yellow text, no variance, surrounded by exp mobs so we have someone to compare it to. Soulfire mob is the closest thing we have to DS, and people respect that as a camp now. The same respect should be given to DS as she is more difficult to hold down solo.

[Peener]

The general guideline that makes DS a camp is the fact that it's in a room with 7 other spawns, doesn't have a 100% drop rate on her loot, no turn in is required. From all major indicators of this mob/camp nothing about it even hints that it's even intended to be a raid mob. Its got a fixed spawn duration, no yellow text, not in a raid zone, can be solo'd, duo'd, grouped. . . Only reason the push for FTE rules is to fast track peoples way to an 100HP item without having to camp it.

I very much disagree with this bully tactic to change this rule set to suit people with better connections who use autofire. I speak as someone who doesnt have the type of connection that would allow me to ever win they type of camp, nor do i resort to that type of game play to win. If they move DS to a raid zone, give her yellow text and add a window, sure, lets fte rule it, but you cant be past zone line when she spawns or your DQ'd. Since that isnt happening, a camp she shall remain.

No one's claiming DS is a raid mob. I'm simply asking how she differs from Verina Tomb or Vessel Drozlin for the enchanter epic. Both of these mobs have their own windows and no placeholders, and both are FTE.

Why is DS treated differently? Is it just the variance?

[aaezil]

Should be FTE like other things that spawn on their own.

Lucan spawns on his own. No ph. Yet hes a camp and you need to clear his room to have any claim to it. Drusella is the same way. (Or should be if isnt currently)

[Erati]

The general guideline that makes DS a camp is the fact that it's in a room with 7 other spawns, doesn't have a 100% drop rate on her loot, no turn in is required. From all major indicators of this mob/camp nothing about it even hints that it's even intended to be a raid mob. Its got a fixed spawn duration, no yellow text, not in a raid zone, can be solo'd, duo'd, grouped. . . Only reason the push for FTE rules is to fast track peoples way to an 100HP item without having to camp it.

I very much disagree with this bully tactic to change this rule set to suit people with better connections who use autofire. I speak as someone who doesnt have the type of connection that would allow me to ever win they type of camp, nor do i resort to that type of game play to win. If they move DS to a raid zone, give her yellow text and add a window, sure, lets fte rule it, but you cant be past zone line when she spawns or your DQ'd. Since that isnt happening, a camp she shall remain.


Lol if a couple posts that raise a discussion considered bullying...

Back to DS, the 7 mobs in room, no turn in or the drop rate have nothing to do w defining her as a camp. Sure that makes life easier on those doing the quest who have to kill her likely multiple times to get the quest drop but how is that different than other quests on p99 that you try and try again at. See Scout and Ring roll, two other long duration spawn npcs that people basically only get 1 shot at per day. Theres nothing to clear for those but no one can “camp” Scout or Gloridain.

Stop confusing FTE and yellow text w meaning its a raid mob of some sorts. Stormfeather had yellow text at one point, a lvl 30 ish mob. You can have FTE rules be present with a plethora of situations not involving raid mobs and guess what not all these situations shouldnt be turned into “camps” either just bc theres no raid requirement attached.

[Erati]

Lucan spawns on his own. No ph. Yet hes a camp and you need to clear his room to have any claim to it. Drusella is the same way. (Or should be if isnt currently)

Another dumb “camp” that shouldnt be and wasnt always considered a camp right here on p99.

Bad example.

DS used to never be a camp in Kunark like ever, you show up and out maneuver the enchanters trying to solo it. If they engage it first, grats.

[Bbeta]

I vote for list. haha

[aaezil]

Another dumb “camp” that shouldnt be and wasnt always considered a camp right here on p99.

Bad example.

DS used to never be a camp in Kunark like ever, you show up and out maneuver the enchanters trying to solo it. If they engage it first, grats.

So you’re trying to tell me the mob with the closest mechanics to DS in the entire game is a bad example? Sorry guy...

But i think the gms will disagree with ya

[aaezil]

Also what you remember from live or how it “used to be” here is completel irrelevant - all that matters is how things work now (i remember the avg level being 40 in velious era and its 60 here. I remember camp rules being whoever got xp got loot rights even for raid mobs. I remember no clickies. I remember nobody knowing about recharging. Doesnt mean thats the way its ever gonna be here.)

[Peener]

Lucan spawns on his own. No ph. Yet hes a camp and you need to clear his room to have any claim to it. Drusella is the same way. (Or should be if isnt currently)

This was helpful. Thank you.

[Erati]

So you’re trying to tell me the mob with the closest mechanics to DS in the entire game is a bad example? Sorry guy...

But i think the gms will disagree with ya

So you are ignoring other posters replies comparing DS to Verina but since DS and Lucan are both senselessly called camps that means you re correct.

Got it.

[Erati]

This was helpful. Thank you.

Lucan wasnt always a camp on P99 neither was DS. Someone arbitrarily declared Lucan as a camp one day despite nothing about it resembling an Everquest camp besides the simple “waiting” part.

[Teppler]

If you're holding down mobs and maintaining a presence in a room, you are holding that room as a camp. If a rare 24 hour mob spawns in that room that you are holding, it should be yours. It would be a major encroachment for anyone else to come in that room and start killing as long as you are keeping things down in a time sensitive manner.

[aaezil]

Lucan wasnt always a camp on P99 neither was DS. Someone arbitrarily declared Lucan as a camp one day despite nothing about it resembling an Everquest camp besides the simple “waiting” part.

Will repeat just cause it “used to be different” doesnt mean thats the way it works today. That “someone” you are referencing was a gm who was tired of people rules lawyering/bickering about lucan ( People arguing hes fte) and just said heres how it is.

So looks like the options are go thru the same thing as what went on with lucan which will lead gms to the same exact ruling or just go with the obvious precedent from the beginning. I know which im choosing!

[Erati]

If you're holding down mobs and maintaining a presence in a room, you are holding that room as a camp. If a rare 24 hour mob spawns in that room that you are holding, it should be yours. It would be a major encroachment for anyone else to come in that room and start killing as long as you are keeping things down in a time sensitive manner.

No one shows up to demand that the player leaves the room tho, nor will anyone try to “claim” the mobs you have been killing.

But an npc that manifests on its on is rarely something that players can claim as theirs just by sitting there. You cant claim VT, VD, Gloridain, Scout Charisa, Ragefire, Phinny, Estrella etc etc as a camp. Do people claim angry or shady goblin as camps? What about Venril Sathirs remains?

You guys love picking and choosing when camping rules apply and how they arbitrarily can be applied.

[Erati]

Will repeat just cause it “used to be different” doesnt mean thats the way it works today. That “someone” you are referencing was a gm who was tired of people rules lawyering/bickering about lucan ( People arguing hes fte) and just said heres how it is.

So looks like the options are go thru the same thing as what went on with lucan which will lead gms to the same exact ruling or just go with the obvious precedent from the beginning. I know which im choosing!

So why is DS different, no one but players who wish to sit there for 12+ hours feels it should be a camp. Like Scout etc one day it just took enough people agreeing w how the spawn should be handled.

[aaezil]

So why is DS different, no one but playerslaw
M
lk who wish to sit there for 12+ hours feels it should be a camp. Like Scout etc one day peoit just took enough people agreeing w how the spawn should be handled.

You want to change a precedent because player agreements can be reached? Fine - do what we did at shady goblin and get every player to agree that ds is fte and have it work consistently and publish it on the forums and boom theres your player agreement.

[Wonkie]

It's a 50k item, of course there will be competition

[Erati]

You want to change a precedent because player agreements can be reached? Fine - do what we did at shady goblin and get every player to agree that ds is fte and have it work consistently and publish it on the forums and boom theres your player agreement.

Im not trying to change a thing, just pointing out the inconsistencies on why it really shouldnt be considered a camp.

I understand shit is hard to change and I dont care personally which way DS is handled.

But its laughable that people are beating their chests w very thin lines of what makes her a camp.

[aaezil]

Argument for being a camp:
Same as lucan who is the most mechanically similar spawn in the game

Argument for not being a camp:
Scout roll? (Idk why you said that)
Badain ( 3 days with variance)
VT/VD (not mechanically similar - huge windows)

Sorry i tried but i just dont see the not a camp argument.

[Erati]

If you're holding down mobs and maintaining a presence in a room, you are holding that room as a camp. If a rare 24 hour mob spawns in that room that you are holding, it should be yours. It would be a major encroachment for anyone else to come in that room and start killing as long as you are keeping things down in a time sensitive manner.

Thank you for furthering my point as you can “maintain” a presence on any of these self spawning mobs by standing at the spawn point and they will manifest eventually.

Sure I cannot kill the mob I want if I dont clear the room but isnt that the choice the players have to make when how to engage an encounter? Some encounters you pull somewhere some you fight where they spawn, its EQ you find your way to accomplish the goal.

Maintaining a presence should be related and coincide w the reasons that the mob you are “camping” spawns, not simply giving mob rights to whoever stood in the room first, mobs have spawn points. DS specific you can wait in her corner FD and be chatting entire window aka the entire 23.59 hours shes not alive, is that not being present?

[aaezil]

Thank you for furthering my point as you can “maintain” a presence on any of these self spawning mobs by standing at the spawn point and they will manifest eventually.

Sure I cannot kill the mob I want if I dont clear the room but isnt that the choice the players have to make when how to engage an encounter? Some encounters you pull somewhere some you fight where they spawn, its EQ you find your way to accomplish the goal.

Maintaining a presence should be related and coincide w the reasons that the mob you are “camping” spawns, not simply giving mob rights to whoever stood in the room first, mobs have spawn points. DS specific you can wait in her corner FD and be chatting entire window aka the entire 23.59 hours shes not alive, is that not being present?


Again for the most mechanically similar mob in the game (lucan) just being fd in the room does not give you camp rights - belongs to the person clearing the room

[Erati]

Argument for being a camp:
Same as lucan who is the most mechanically similar spawn in the game

Argument for not being a camp:
Scout roll? (Idk why you said that)
Badain ( 3 days with variance)
VT/VD (not mechanically similar - huge windows)

Sorry i tried but i just dont see the not a camp argument.

Lucan was not a camp tho so the simple fact that he is now randomly considered a camp does not mean in p99s history when he wasnt campable that he was killed invalidly. How a mob thats been handled as both fte and camp can be used as a reason for DS to be a camp is literally retarded.

Also your only reason that those others arent camps are due to window size? What? Scout spawns twice a day as does Phinigel, neither are camps.

Lets look at Stormfeather for a moment, currently is a camp however it wasnt initially. In fact Stormfeather at Velious release had an FTE message and was socked identical to Lodizal which is also not a camp. Stormfeather now is a camp w variance and a skip mechanic which basically throws out your “window being too long” reasons.

[Erati]

Again for the most mechanically similar mob in the game (lucan) just being fd in the room does not give you camp rights - belongs to the person clearing the room

Which is a recent change...using Lucan is a bad example see my post above.

I realize GMs recognize him as a camp now but I guess we need them to clarify all these other mobs too then amirite?

[aaezil]

You are right - the rules are inconsentent and poorly presented/documented. Otherwise we wouldnt be having this stupid conversation that only a gm could tell you the answer to. Have fun with drusella petionquests p99!

[Erati]

You are right - the rules are inconsentent and poorly presented/documented. Otherwise we wouldnt be having this stupid conversation that only a gm could tell you the answer to. Have fun with drusella petionquests p99!

Ding ding ding, you have seen the light.

[Erati]

One could even argue that clearing the golems in DS's room is simply just camping the stupid Mortiferous Protector and does not give you claim to Drusella as that would be camping two things at once. Typically when you are camping two mobs at once and someone shows up to lay claim to one of them, you are forced to choose which one of the mobs you want to relinquish as you cannot hold multiple camps at once.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Mortiferous_Protector

The problem with this is that the players do not want you to view the act of clearing the room as them camping two mobs ( Drusella and the MP ), they want the MP to be considered equal to the trash since his loot is not good ( druid boots ). Think about how Crypt in Sebilis plays out when a group clears in only to find a shaman soloing the Hierophant room only. They typically are forced to take the rest of the spawns leaving the Hierophant room alone, but if the shaman moves away from the room that group will most certainly pull the PH or named if its up.

So again, people are picking and choosing how the camp rules get applied and thats the inconsistency Im pointing out.

Happy Friday everyone.

[aaezil]

If you made that argument and made someone choose ds or mp they would just say i choose ds and not fte the ph or mp and give you a chance to kill him and if you declined then you just gave up all your camp rights to that spot. Seems pretty cut and dry.

[Erati]

If you made that argument and made someone choose ds or mp they would just say i choose ds and not fte the ph or mp and give you a chance to kill him and if you declined then you just gave up all your camp rights to that spot. Seems pretty cut and dry.

Exactly my point about why clearing the room has nothing to do with camping or trying to claim Drusella when you can easily differentiate between the two spawns, camps or whatever it ends up becoming.

[Wonkie]

what's the starting line for drusella FTE?

[Teppler]

One could even argue that clearing the golems in DS's room is simply just camping the stupid Mortiferous Protector and does not give you claim to Drusella as that would be camping two things at once. Typically when you are camping two mobs at once and someone shows up to lay claim to one of them, you are forced to choose which one of the mobs you want to relinquish as you cannot hold multiple camps at once.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Mortiferous_Protector

The problem with this is that the players do not want you to view the act of clearing the room as them camping two mobs ( Drusella and the MP ), they want the MP to be considered equal to the trash since his loot is not good ( druid boots ). Think about how Crypt in Sebilis plays out when a group clears in only to find a shaman soloing the Hierophant room only. They typically are forced to take the rest of the spawns leaving the Hierophant room alone, but if the shaman moves away from the room that group will most certainly pull the PH or named if its up.

So again, people are picking and choosing how the camp rules get applied and thats the inconsistency Im pointing out.

Happy Friday everyone.

Crypt has a special ruling on it like Captain in Karnors. If you are in LoS of the rooms of what you are killing, and you are keeping it down in a reasonable amount of time, it's camped.

[aaezil]

Without a gm response who knows what the ruling for DS is / will be. Good luck

[Castigate]

Another dumb “camp” that shouldnt be and wasnt always considered a camp right here on p99.

Bad example.

DS used to never be a camp in Kunark like ever, you show up and out maneuver the enchanters trying to solo it. If they engage it first, grats.

Incorrect, or at least IIRC Loraen respected my camp of the room during Kunark when I did DS for the solo artist challenge. Now that i think about it I don't think that the time I cleared the room was actually the time that I succeeded on the kill though :D


Why is DS treated differently? Is it just the variance?

Pretty much, at least with variance on VT/VD there is an item that falls outside of the general ideology of what constitutes a camp. With DS I cant really think of any good way that you could define her outside of a normal camp without redefining what a camp is. If she had an FTE message, if she had variance, if the Lucan rule didn't exist, all of those would create a point to argue from, but as it stands she falls very clearly into where the rules of the server have been at concerning camps for at least the last few years.

Even before the Lucan rule people bitched constantly about King Tranix being perma camped too now that I think about it, and I'm 99% certain the campers won that argument because crowns were like 50k at one point.

[Brocode]

can we cry about anything related so we can have extra advantage? Shady and Angry are understandable, this one you gotta own the camp and not hope for a player agreement on everything or just buy the loot rights if you cant compete.

[Tethler]

Can someone make a spreadsheet for all the player agreements so I can keep track? At some point I'm gonna get banned just for loggin in somewhere at the wrong time.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Can someone make a spreadsheet for all the player agreements so I can keep track? At some point I'm gonna get banned just for loggin in somewhere at the wrong time.

WTS player agreement spreadsheet 50K

[Para99]

One could even argue that clearing the golems in DS's room is simply just camping the stupid Mortiferous Protector and does not give you claim to Drusella as that would be camping two things at once. Typically when you are camping two mobs at once and someone shows up to lay claim to one of them, you are forced to choose which one of the mobs you want to relinquish as you cannot hold multiple camps at once.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Mortiferous_Protector

The problem with this is that the players do not want you to view the act of clearing the room as them camping two mobs ( Drusella and the MP ), they want the MP to be considered equal to the trash since his loot is not good ( druid boots ). Think about how Crypt in Sebilis plays out when a group clears in only to find a shaman soloing the Hierophant room only. They typically are forced to take the rest of the spawns leaving the Hierophant room alone, but if the shaman moves away from the room that group will most certainly pull the PH or named if its up.

So again, people are picking and choosing how the camp rules get applied and thats the inconsistency Im pointing out.

Happy Friday everyone.

It's hard to tell in that screenshot, but that's the back room of East by the portal not near Drusella's room. Point being, Mort Protector isn't a static spawn and he doesn't share a spawn with any of the other East named mobs, so it's not like any of the other HS named camp. That would mean at least 10 spawns between the entrance to Drusella's room and the zone out could be considered Mort Protector camps.

[Erati]

It's hard to tell in that screenshot, but that's the back room of East by the portal not near Drusella's room. Point being, Mort Protector isn't a static spawn and he doesn't share a spawn with any of the other East named mobs, so it's not like any of the other HS named camp. That would mean at least 10 spawns between the entrance to Drusella's room and the zone out could be considered Mort Protector camps.

That's true but it doesn't change the fact that killing the golems in DS's room is closer related to camping the Mort Protector than doing anything that affects what is going on at DS's spawn point aside from the simple 'clearing of the area'.

So since P99 allows for the clearing of non-PHs equals giving right to all npcs that also spawn in the vicinity of the mobs you are clearing in special cases but not all, DS is currently campable it seems.

[Hibbs]

This is pretty lol. Thanks

[White_knight]

...

Wtf

[Teppler]

That's true but it doesn't change the fact that killing the golems in DS's room is closer related to camping the Mort Protector than doing anything that affects what is going on at DS's spawn point aside from the simple 'clearing of the area'.

So since P99 allows for the clearing of non-PHs equals giving right to all npcs that also spawn in the vicinity of the mobs you are clearing in special cases but not all, DS is currently campable it seems.

Dude Drusella's room has a convenient mechanic where there are level appropriate mobs to kill to clear the area. It's very convenient. Why argue against it?

It's not the same as other rooms where the rooms are empty or there aren't level appropriate mobs.

Emptier spaces can be FTE. This is a campable spot. Put in the work. If anyone wants to get insane about spending 24 hours there, that's their time to waste....

[Not_Mikeo]

Seems like most of this servers problems would be resolved if Kelz was kicked off they server

[Synthlol]

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

These are stickied server rules (Getting Started Guide & Server Rules (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159515)), emphasis mine. They make it clear that Drusella can be claimed as camped by actively clearing the room, no matter if you are in the actual room or in the safer hallway. If you show up to DS and a group is camped in the hallway clearing the DS room mobs, you cannot simply sit on the spawn point and contest it. You must inform them you also want to camp DS, and at that point they will need to move into the room for their claim to continue to be valid. If you show up to DS and try and contest it with a group actually inside DS's room clearing it, you're a fucking degen.

[aaezil]

Copy paste the server rules would be just dandy except for the dozen + “exceptions” to those rules

[Legidias]

Line 16 of paragraph 3 on page 28 of the Play Nice Policy (Rv. 4, 2018) sub clause 37.101c under "Camp disputes and other things you kill brain cells on" states that...

[beargryllz]

Enable pvp in HS

Only the strong survive

Everyone else dies

[Triangle]

Waiting for my fraps to compress and upload, but I have submitted petitions in game and in the forums due to Blood Guard's conduct at this camp tonight.

As some people will know, Blood Guard has been at DS camp for 3-days non-stop. Unfortunately for them, they wiped due to their own pull this evening. Their entire group died except for a monk and necro who were FD. Now, first point of contention: having your group die except those who are able to FD should be considered a wipe. However, they claimed the mere fact that they had people FD and not dead means they didn't wipe.

In any case, my group begin clearing before they logged in their cleric to begin rezzing others. BG began to rez and, as soon as they had some people alive, they trained themselves AGAIN (as well as us). This second train wiped them yet again. Second point of contention: the fact that they trained us when we were clearly pulling camp should mean they forfeited camp.

Next, we recovered from the train prior to them and set up shop right on top of DS - clearing mobs in DS's room before BG arrived in the room and before they recovered fully. That is of course the third point of contention: following their second wipe from their own train, we recovered prior to them for a second time and established camp yet again by moving right on DS spawn point and clearing mobs prior to her pop.

I explained to them that they wiped, lost camp, and it was now ours. DS spawned and my group engaged her. BG immediately began to out dps us and did so. No clue if she dropped Urn, but they looted everything off her corpse. Tried to make this as short as possible and will link fraps when it is uploaded.

[DMN]

I think they should have lost rights to the camp if they were not keeping the spawns cleared. FD after a wipe or not, it doesn't matter if you aren't keeping up with the spawns.

[Wonkie]

Waiting for my fraps to compress and upload, but I have submitted petitions in game and in the forums due to Blood Guard's conduct at this camp tonight.

As some people will know, Blood Guard has been at DS camp for 3-days non-stop. Unfortunately for them, they wiped due to their own pull this evening. Their entire group died except for a monk and necro who were FD. Now, first point of contention: having your group die except those who are able to FD should be considered a wipe. However, they claimed the mere fact that they had people FD and not dead means they didn't wipe.

In any case, my group begin clearing before they logged in their cleric to begin rezzing others. BG began to rez and, as soon as they had some people alive, they trained themselves AGAIN (as well as us). This second train wiped them yet again. Second point of contention: the fact that they trained us when we were clearly pulling camp should mean they forfeited camp.

Next, we recovered from the train prior to them and set up shop right on top of DS - clearing mobs in DS's room before BG arrived in the room and before they recovered fully. That is of course the third point of contention: following their second wipe from their own train, we recovered prior to them for a second time and established camp yet again by moving right on DS spawn point and clearing mobs prior to her pop.

I explained to them that they wiped, lost camp, and it was now ours. DS spawned and my group engaged her. BG immediately began to out dps us and did so. No clue if she dropped Urn, but they looted everything off her corpse. Tried to make this as short as possible and will link fraps when it is uploaded.

thanks. i logged on tonight and am now logging off.

stay classic p99.

[aaezil]

Yeah if it repopped before they were rezzed/killing again then they def lost claim to the camp.

[Triangle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi87nSSy8-s&

Fraps is found at that link, sorry about the quality but it was a 12gb file and I guess I shrunk it too much. It is also only of the fight and just prior, unfortunately I did not put up fraps earlier to record their wipe, but the GM logs should evidence that it occurred.

For what its worth, this thread appears to be created by a BG member (their GL? not sure).

And finally, it is notable that BG got the camp from Kelzaraz after HE WIPED AND SUBSEQUENTLY TRAINED THEM WHEN THEY TRIED TO TAKE IT AFTER HE WIPED. They petitioned him and AM officers seem to have forced him out of camp after that. This is the exact same situation that happened tonight (except they took on the role of wipe/trainer this time). However, it seems BG does not want the same standard to apply to them

[Hibbs]

Well there seems to be a lot of plot holes in this story, but you can see Rover (your group member) punch DS first. Its a hot camp right now and I can see how things can get heated but after you guys engaged it I feel like it was wrong of them to out DPS you for the kill and take it.

If they felt like it was their camp then they should have called you on stealing their camp / Mobs and petitioned on you. Not take it into their own hands and secure the kill by KS'ing it.

Get some fresh air.

[Triangle]

Well there seems to be a lot of plot holes in this story, but you can see Rover (your group member) punch DS first. Its a hot camp right now and I can see how things can get heated but after you guys engaged it I feel like it was wrong of them to out DPS you for the kill and take it.

If they felt like it was their camp then they should have called you on stealing their camp / Mobs and petitioned on you. Not take it into their own hands and secure the kill by KS'ing it.

Get some fresh air.

Fresh air tomorrow =).

The story was more like a synopsis, I admit. However and in all seriousness, if you point to areas of the event that you have questions about, then I will do my best to answer/elaborate.

[DMN]

You want to level a monk/necro all the way up just to steal a camp? And they have a necro and monk already in the to-be-trained group who could just FD and hold the camp on their own post-train attempt? I don't think you've thought your "clever" plan through.

[Teppler]

What happened to Triangle is a big issue on this server and I hope this situation is taken care of.

When you’re fd you clearly aren’t engaging your mobs and if you had to fd them then there’s an implication that you couldn’t handle the engagement and had to disengage.

Possibly the biggest issue is people don’t understand the difference between casual courtesy they usually receive in non pressured situations vs what the rules really are when things are contested.

[Heebs13]

Sometimes I think Roegan is a psychology professor and p99 is some sort of social experiment.

[Triangle]

What happened to Triangle is a big issue on this server and I hope this situation is taken care of.

When you’re fd you clearly aren’t engaging your mobs and if you had to fd them then there’s an implication that you couldn’t handle the engagement and had to disengage.

Possibly the biggest issue is people don’t understand the difference between casual courtesy they usually receive in non pressured situations vs what the rules really are when things are contested.

Yes to put it into perspective, I realize that waiting for a group to wipe and leapfrogging them thereafter is a dick move. However, in the case where a camp is perma camped (quite literally, BG has kept a presence for over 60 hours straight), what are you supposed to do other than wait until they decide to leave if you want the quest item as well? Can one guild hold down a camp for months even if they wipe, until they decide to leave? They would be able to if it is not considered a wipe so long as they have someone FD and a cleric camped out ready to rez everybody within 10 minutes.

I think the most damning thing for BG here is they attempted to, and succeeded, in enforcing the same rules against Kelzeraz that they now say don't apply to them - indeed, making their DS kill a killsteal.

Finally, DMN's post about monk/necro plan appears to be in response to a hypothetical in a since-removed post.

[Legidias]

Everyone knows leapfrogging is a dick move but just label it as competition and ignores it when they do it (and scream when its done to them).

[LazyHydras]

TIL from this thread: Kelz's neckbeard rivals that of Merlin's.

[Uuruk]

New progression servers about to launch

[Triangle]

Just as an update - BG guild leader contacted me today. He is the OP in this thread, by the way.

Long and the short of the conversation is he thinks I am wrong, tried to convince me he is right, then explained that I should not submit this to the GMs (even though he is willing to offer nothing as a compromise) because they are overburdened. I told him I agreed they are overburdened and asked him to suggest a compromise proposal. This was word for word his response:

I propose its dropped and we move on. You wait patiently for the camp like I did and when it is fully spawned you can contest it."

Basically, you were wrong, we were right to KS you - go away and come back in 1 month when we decide to leave the camp. Until then, there is no possibility of you getting the camp because we can never wipe unless everyone is dead (fd's don't count) AND also the entire camp must be spawned for a reasonable period of time (this was another part of the conversation, even if camp is full spawn and they have only a few people fd, they argue even MORE time, a "reasonable amount", needs to be provided to them to pull the mobs).

May post screenshots of the convo later if BG contests the veracity of the conversation.

Three words to summarize their argument: Crock of Shit

[Teppler]

What’s the main point of BGs argument? I think they’re gonna get wrecked on this. IMO they owe you 200-300k on that.

[DMN]

I would not have taken their camp if it were me, especially after I saw they were recoving with a cleric and whatnot. but the rules are on the side of losing the camp if you don't clear the mobs.

I think BG argument was valid back in the day but not on p99. Back in the day "breaking" a camp was a much bigger deal. If a group camping had some bad luck or a key member went link dead(hell i remember one time where the clerics cat gated her ouy of zone) and they couldnt hold the camp for a bit, no one would generally try to steal it. But we are on p99 boyz.

[Foxplay]

Just as an update - BG guild leader contacted me today. He is the OP in this thread, by the way.

Long and the short of the conversation is he thinks I am wrong, tried to convince me he is right, then explained that I should not submit this to the GMs (even though he is willing to offer nothing as a compromise) because they are overburdened. I told him I agreed they are overburdened and asked him to suggest a compromise proposal. This was word for word his response:



Basically, you were wrong, we were right to KS you - go away and come back in 1 month when we decide to leave the camp. Until then, there is no possibility of you getting the camp because we can never wipe unless everyone is dead (fd's don't count) AND also the entire camp must be spawned for a reasonable period of time (this was another part of the conversation, even if camp is full spawn and they have only a few people fd, they argue even MORE time, a "reasonable amount", needs to be provided to them to pull the mobs).

May post screenshots of the convo later if BG contests the veracity of the conversation.

Three words to summarize their argument: Crock of Shit

The Immersion of some people...

Not a GM but yea I don't think a feign in camp should count. Just like claiming something is camped while staring at full re pops for several minutes doesn't count. Whether your are feigned or sitting staring at it doesn't matter.... if other people are interested in the camp you must be clearing the spawns (in a reasonable amount of time - I say this cause some classes have to wait for mana occasionally)

The only dispute is that D.S is a longer spawn than the rest of the room so I guess they could say that they are keeping her cleared (in a sense that they will recover before her respawn?) But yea that is a REALLY flimsy argument imo as generally camps work for spawns / rooms, typically you cant just jerk out 1 single spawn and claim it as camped while leaving everything else up

[Triangle]

What’s the main point of BGs argument? I think they’re gonna get wrecked on this. IMO they owe you 200-300k on that.



I'll quote their main points, and will post SS's to verify if necessary:

So our initial "wipe" was from a mob walking right thru the wall fleeing. brought hell on us. but, we did hold 3 people in zone at camp still.

I then said "FD, yes". His response:

u can hold a camp while FD. We can decide to abandon any pull by fding and camping. until the camp fully respawns and we dont engage after a reasonable amount of time, then its lost.

He fails to admit that they wiped, and that appears to be BG's argument. The truth is that they did not "decide to abandon" the pull. They trained themselves and their group wiped. Those who did not die from that wipe were only able to do so by feigning death

[Hotel]

Lavitzz (OP) got AM to not contest Tunare today because......he wants a turn for his guild to kill it. And if we do contest, he will throw a fit to the GMs causing everyone's life to be more annoying. Feel free to correct me on this.

GL Triangle. You're dealing with a real special one here.

OP cares nothing except those ez pixels and will do anything to manipulate the scenario so that he is the victim and the rest of the server are nerd bullies.

[DMN]

At least we have cleared up the possibility the wipe was caused via outside party train.

I think a key issue here is how much time elapsed between the mobs respawning in the room and the new-campers engaging. What exactly would be a reasonable amount of time to kill a respawn. I suspect the remaning members of the team(now we hear there were three) could have realistically held the camp on their own but what if another group suddenly rushed into the room, should they try to KS the mob to keep claim on their camp?

[Triangle]

As to Hotel: WOW, so much for not wanting to bother the GMs. More like, only wanting to bother the GMs if they stand to gain.

As to DMN: they could not have handled the mobs as they were, they had 2 people fd to my knowledge (perhaps a third at zone in?). Those two people could not have handled the mobs that were already up in camp (at least 4/7 mobs were up, including the roamer). Further, you are buying into the assumption that they do get a "reasonable amount of time" to recover from their wipe and try again. I don't buy that. if that were the case, then BG could forever hold the camp without any others being able to get a chance.

[Teppler]

I would go as far to say if you are playing any FD games with any sort of contested mob, that’s a very dangerous game to play and any time someone feigns a mob, they are disengaged from an engagement because they couldn’t handle and in that case it’s the next persons turn.

BG officer is using very very convenient rule bending for their own sake.

Let’s entertain the other side of the argument for a moment. You want a camp and some monk is messing around with Feigh Death games. How long could you possibly go before you just say enough is enough. 2 mins? 10? 30? Hr?

I’ve seen GMs go off on people for using pathing as an excuse in these situations. This fucker, triangle, spent the time in Kunark learning that shit. They should of done the same.

[orangemang]

In general, a player should maintain a presence at or very near the spawn of the camp they are intending to hold, while keeping the placeholders of any relevant spawns dead.

Camp hadn't fully respawned mobs, BG still had a presence.

[Hotel]

In general, a player should maintain a presence at or very near the spawn of the camp they are intending to hold, while keeping the placeholders of any relevant spawns dead.

Camp hadn't fully respawned mobs, BG still had a presence.

Unbiased interpretation of the event and rules. Coming at you from BG!!

https://gyazo.com/2cba76abecf749f1748cea611b5b98f2

BTW haven't seen you at all in ToV, or anywhere really, guess that more and more comment was a little too soon.

[Teppler]

In general, a player should maintain a presence at or very near the spawn of the camp they are intending to hold, while keeping the placeholders of any relevant spawns dead.

Camp hadn't fully respawned mobs, BG still had a presence.

The fact that people had to be FD and there was mobs around means that the BG people couldn't handle the camp in its current state, whatever it was, and someone else was ready to roll.

[Triangle]

In general, a player should maintain a presence at or very near the spawn of the camp they are intending to hold, while keeping the placeholders of any relevant spawns dead.

Camp hadn't fully respawned mobs, BG still had a presence.

By BG you are referring to your own guild - based on your post history, you appear to be an officer or at least a member of Blood Guard. Just wanted to make that clear as people might otherwise presume you are merely a neutral commentator.

What is "a presence"? Is "a presence" a corpse? is it a FD member, or is it enough people to be able to handle the mobs spawned in camp? or is it enough people to handle the camp in its entirety? Seems like a lot of possible factors at play that would require a situation-by-situation determination.

The rule also doesnt reference a wipe and what a wipe entails, and that a wipe causes you to lose a camp. Wipes have generally been held to cause a group to lose a camp if another group engages after that wipe. It is clear you wiped here, and that factor, as well as all factors, will hopefully be considered by the GMs when they have the opportunity to look at what happened.

[orangemang]

"Interpretation" when I copied it straight from the rules.

I don't think you understand what "interpretation" means.

[DMN]

As to Hotel: WOW, so much for not wanting to bother the GMs. More like, only wanting to bother the GMs if they stand to gain.

As to DMN: they could not have handled the mobs as they were, they had 2 people fd to my knowledge (perhaps a third at zone in?). Those two people could not have handled the mobs that were already up in camp (at least 4/7 mobs were up, including the roamer). Further, you are buying into the assumption that they do get a "reasonable amount of time" to recover from their wipe and try again. I don't buy that. if that were the case, then BG could forever hold the camp without any others being able to get a chance.

Not a reasonable time to recover necessarily, but a reasonable time to engage respawns. If it's as you say and half the room had already repopped, then I think they lost any claim. Do you have that fraps> cause I think that's the linchpin here.

[Wallicker]

Semi off topic, BG trained our Only cleric in TD early this morning with a couple raptors they flopped due to a dirty faydedar pull, then proceeded to try and kill him anyways. luckily they wiped completely and I had a pulsing goo in my pocket. still seems like a negative trend of sportsmanship here.

[orangemang]

By BG you are referring to your own guild - based on your post history, you appear to be an officer or at least a member of Blood Guard. Just wanted to make that clear as people might otherwise presume you are merely a neutral commentator.

What is "a presence"? Is "a presence" a corpse? is it a FD member, or is it enough people to be able to handle the mobs spawned in camp? or is it enough people to handle the camp in its entirety? Seems like a lot of possible factors at play that would require a situation-by-situation determination.

The rule also doesnt reference a wipe and what a wipe entails, and that a wipe causes you to lose a camp. Wipes have generally been held to cause a group to lose a camp if another group engages after that wipe. It is clear you wiped here, and that factor, as well as all factors, will hopefully be considered by the GMs when they have the opportunity to look at what happened.

Officer and was there. Post history isnt' hard to look up so forgive me for not pointing that out.

Shariki 60 Monk
Phayln 60 Enchanter

^ Just so we're 100% clear

[Hotel]

Semi off topic, BG trained our Only cleric in TD early this morning with a couple raptors they flopped due to a dirty faydedar pull, then proceeded to try and kill him anyways. luckily they wiped completely and I had a pliable goo in my pocket. still seems like a negative trend of sportsmanship here.

I like where this thread is headed.

[Triangle]

Not a reasonable time to recover necessarily, but a reasonable time to engage respawns. If it's as you say and half the room had already repopped, then I think they lost any claim. Do you have that fraps> cause I think that's the linchpin here.

I don't have prior fraps unfortunately. I did not consider that it would be debatable and that they would try to claim they didn't wipe and/or lose camp. Only when I realized they were making such a claim, and had the potential to KS (Which they did do) did I load and run fraps.

Hoping the server logs and circumstantial evidence (read: they admit to wiping due to their own train) will establish the rest. The individual playing Rover may choose to comment to give his perspective as well (and, either agree with my story or not). Because he is in one of the larger raid guilds here, and additionally out of respect for him, I will leave him to make that call - I did provide his name to the GMs in my petition so that they can speak with him if they want.

[orangemang]

I don't have prior fraps unfortunately. I did not consider that it would be debatable and that they would try to claim they didn't wipe and/or lose camp. Only when I realized they were making such a claim, and had the potential to KS (Which they did do) did I load and run fraps.

Hoping the server logs and circumstantial evidence (read: they admit to wiping due to their own train) will establish the rest. The individual playing Rover may choose to comment to give his perspective as well (and, either agree with my story or not). Because he is in one of the larger raid guilds here, and additionally out of respect for him, I will leave him to make that call - I did provide his name to the GMs in my petition so that they can speak with him if they want.

I like how he tries to play this as 2 different people when I've already heard of multiple petitions going in on him duo boxing these toons from another guild.

[Triangle]

I like how he tries to play this as 2 different people when I've already heard of multiple petitions going in on him duo boxing these toons from another guild.

Right... like I would be stupid enough to petition and make public a fraps of me duoboxing yet, at the same time, smart and ambidextrous enough to man two chars at once (especially with me fluttering around my movements on Svenn like a spaz) while talking with myself and asking myself whether or not we should kill a mob vs recharm it in group text.

Way to use ad hominem attacks to defend your flimsy position.

[Hotel]

I like how he tries to play this as 2 different people when I've already heard of multiple petitions going in on him duo boxing these toons from another guild.

You got evidence for the claim man? A shit bag move to call out someone for two boxxing without any proof.

[orangemang]

Right... like I would be stupid enough to petition and make public a fraps of me duoboxing yet, at the same time, smart and ambidextrous enough to man two chars at once (especially with me fluttering around my movements on Svenn like a spaz) while talking with myself and asking myself whether or not we should kill a mob vs recharm it in group text.

Way to use ad hominem attacks to defend your flimsy position.

How am I supposed to know how stupid you are? You apparently can't read and comprehend the rules as they are written.


Flimsy? Na bruh. I have no doubt in our claim on the camp before you decided to sit on her spawn. If I had I would have pushed to let you have it.

[Triangle]

I went back to look at my fraps. Link again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi87nSSy8-s&

At about 36 seconds you will see Bthori allege that it was actually us who trained them in some attempt to convince us that we were in the wrong so that we would not kill DS. This is their GL, the same OP here and the same guy who admitted today that they trained themselves (and presumably the same guy who was a dick with Tunare and Faydedar on this same two days!) It is clear that he will do whatever it takes (and make any argument it takes) to get the result he wants.

It is also very clear from the fraps that I was not boxing. I went to look at it again to point to some occasions where it is obvious there are two of us, but there are too many to even bother counting.

[orangemang]

I went back to look at my fraps. Link again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi87nSSy8-s&

At about 36 seconds you will see Bthori allege that it was actually us who trained them. This is their GL, the same OP here and the same guy who admitted today that they trained themselves (and presumably the same guy who was a dick with Tunare and Faydedar on this same two days!) It is clear that he will do whatever it takes (and make any argument it takes) to get the result he wants.

It is also very clear from the fraps that I was not boxing. I went to look at it again to point to some occasions where it is obvious there are two of us, but there are too many to even bother counting.

This was fun btw! Hope to do it again soon.

Good luck on getting the GM's to interpret the rules completely differently than written though!

[DMN]

How am I supposed to know how stupid you are? You apparently can't read and comprehend the rules as they are written.


Flimsy? Na bruh. I have no doubt in our claim on the camp before you decided to sit on her spawn. If I had I would have pushed to let you have it.

I don't see how you think the rules favor you, as you were not killing the respawns at the camp. i also don't think you are doing your guild any favors here with all this ad hominem stuff. Take a deep breath, step back, realize you messed up, and try to be more diplomatic. it was a bit of a dick move to snag your camp IMHO , but it's also legit within the rules to do.

[Teppler]

It’s an old ruling but:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=507388&postcount=14

[Hotel]

This was fun btw! Hope to do it again soon.

Good luck on getting the GM's to interpret the rules completely differently than written though!

Soooooo about those interpretations dog.

Sorry your guild is shit btw.

[sneakss]

you let blood guard out dps you....XD

[Hibbs]

You know what they say.. Its tough to admit defeat.

[KEK5000]

Here is Mr. Triangle (rover) today! Assisted by Inkky <aftermath>
https://youtu.be/5756DIywb5M

trains start at 9:10 into video.

[Thiefboy777]

This is way better than the boring threads in Rnf

[Hibbs]

This is way better than the boring threads in Rnf

[Hotel]

BG wiped after sniping the camp from a duo. The duo came back and started clearing re-pops. BG got mad and didn't give up camp. God hero llandris showed up and kicked BG out.

Sucks to suck BG

[orangemang]

BG wiped after sniping the camp from a duo. The duo came back and started clearing re-pops. BG got mad and didn't give up camp. God hero llandris showed up and kicked BG out.

Sucks to suck BG

All gravy, Llandris has fraps of your train the night before =P

[enesis]

Vilefang is a similar "camp" that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread.

[kotton05]

Vile wang don’t count because it used to be a 27 min spawn , we have accounts full of his quest piece still to this day

[Capi]

Vile wang don’t count because it used to be a 27 min spawn , we have accounts full of his quest piece still to this day

Can I have one?

[Freakish]

Can I have one?

Sharing account information is against the EULA and will get you banned.

Source: my butt.