New Scout Player Agreement

[toasteroven]

Proposing

- Same current roll agreement
- Add Level 50 minimum

Reply with +1 or agree

[elwing]

-1

[eqtrader99]

Disagree; I would be in favor of 50+ maybe, but 60 seems pretty ridiculous.

[toasteroven]

updated for 50+

[Legidias]

Reset scout

[Goodest]

+ 1 on add level 50+ needed.

If they con green to me at 60 I don't help. Sorry for your win bro GL on killing it.

[elwing]

50+ is clearly better... Unsure it needs to be changed through...

[Primordial Ooze]

Why? If someone's gotten the faction and gotten themselves there, why does it matter what level they are?

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Why? If someone's gotten the faction and gotten themselves there, why does it matter what level they are?

Because everyone thinks their alts are more important than everyone else's alts.

[Primordial Ooze]

Because everyone thinks their alts are more important than everyone else's alts.

Yeah, not really ok with that. There are lots of ways to play this game and power-leveling to the 50s isn't to everyone's taste. Plenty of people might want to take a break from grinding on their high 40s and park their toon at scout roll so they can get a nice piece of gear while they play another character. Current arrangement is just fine.

[baakss]

If I win the roll, you will kill the quest mobs for my lowbie toon that has no business being in WW, and you will like it.

[Primordial Ooze]

If lowbie toon gets the faction and makes it into WW, said lowbie toon has business in WW.

It's ok, you don't have to like it.

[baakss]

No, I'm agreeing with you dude. It's their responsibility to carry us. We deserve it. We paid 50p for a port to IC and tagged Statue.

[Cecily]

8am or I’ll burn it down.

[Hideousclaw]

+1

[Solist]

Make scout require both the broken disk, and any piece of HoT armor of any type to return the robe/bracer/talisman. No MQ possible.

[Jimjam]

Keep scout as is.

I'm reluctant to make the encounter too exclusive, which could result in insufficient attendees to make pull and down mob with sufficient heals.

Conversely, the captain himself isn't a difficult encounter, you don't need to be high 50s+ to make a meaningful contribution.

[elwing]

It's a legitimate quest for level 50... Both the mob and the requirement are "normal" for a lvl 50...level 5 people is something else through....

[Sammsquanch]

+1

[Foxplay]

Keep scout as is.

I'm reluctant to make the encounter too exclusive, which could result in insufficient attendees to make pull and down mob with sufficient heals.

Conversely, the captain himself isn't a difficult encounter, you don't need to be high 50s+ to make a meaningful contribution.

Yea its p99 blue..... and a really good item(s) you can get just for faction and winning a roll....pretty sure you don't need to worry about attendance lol. I dun really care either way... although I would benefit from any 50+ rule, but alas that makes me bias =3

[Pootle]

+1 for 50+

[Darkog]

Make it level 60 IMO. Too many people rolling these days. If you can't even put in the work to get to 60, why should 60's carry you through a quest?

[Molitoth]

+1

[Erati]

Make it level 60 IMO. Too many people rolling these days. If you can't even put in the work to get to 60, why should 60's carry you through a quest?

Pretty sure 20 lvl 50s could kill Captain and 20 is a low # of typical rollers.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

How many people are showing up to scout these days?

[DiogenesThaDogg]

If people are going to the trouble of factioning a toon and showing up at scout roll to gear that toon up, I feel like they aren't going to abandon the toon anytime soon (who would get a talisman then retire a toon at 5? put on the back burner maybe, but delete?).

What I mean is, if you're rolling against a level 5 you were probably going to have to roll against that toon at 50 in the future if there was a minimum lvl 50 requirement, because chances are you aren't going to win for a while. So it really to me doesn't seem to make a difference, except in this - if the level minimum was implemented, for a few weeks there will be slightly less competition while people leveled the toons they were going to level anyway, or maybe not as they might just roll on a different toon that is already 50+.

[sonicjoose]

+1

[Valakut]

+1 for 50+

[feanan]

stop helping people kill the mobs, and make people bring their own kill force.

problem solves itself

[Maschenny]

-1, i disagree with the proposed change.

[DiogenesThaDogg]

stop helping people kill the mobs, and make people bring their own kill force.

problem solves itself

Pretty much anyone in a large enough guild could get a kill force together for their level 5 alt.

[cooler2442]

Can we make it so Scout roll is harder in someway? Right now its ridiculous that 50+ people come out and /random.

I vote to stop killing the mobs and if you win the roll you need to have your own kill force.

[DiogenesThaDogg]

Can we make it so Scout roll is harder in someway? Right now its ridiculous that 50+ people come out and /random.

I vote to stop killing the mobs and if you win the roll you need to have your own kill force.

That doesn't make scout harder, that just gives an advantage to people in large guilds.

[Quizlop]

Is it possible to make 50yds around Scout a FFA PvP area?

[Incubo]

I think 54+ is fair.

[cooler2442]

Anyone can roll but if you're below lv55 then you have to do your own kill force.

[Erati]

Anyone can roll but if you're below lv55 then you have to do your own kill force.

This makes no sense at all and honestly is more trouble to enforce equally than just simply spend 5 total min auto attacking the Captain.

Sorry you feel the need to apply invisible barriers for a quest who’s only barrier should be faction and community willingness to help for 5 min.

[Legidias]

Just give everyone a Bracer of Benevolence at lvl 1. Solves it for good.

[elwing]

I just don't see the need to change it tbh... How many of sub 50 are present anyway? Does it really reduce your chances? Also lvl60 is a bit ridiculous when it's clearly doable at 50...

[kjs86z]

+1 for 50+

[Incubo]

Everyone voting should put how many rolls they have won between their characters.

54+ and 0 rolls won

[loramin]

Everyone voting should put how many rolls they have won between their characters.

54+ and 0 rolls won

Because that will be easy to track and everyone will be honest about their answers :rolleyes:

Not trying to crap on people's ideas, but look everyone suggesting things needs to remember that above all this system needs to be simple and fool proof, or else you'll never get everyone on board with it.

[Incubo]

I'm just saying. If a bunch of these people saying open it up for any level already have their piece. Then they have a different view than someone getting their first piece for their 60 main.

[tyrant49333]

I even think 55 would be better than 50. Bringing useless toons that can't contribute to the fight in any way is bullshit. Clean it up 2019.

[Fifield]

You didnt even put a vote option on this post, fail.

[baakss]

Just give everyone a Bracer of Benevolence at lvl 1. Solves it for good.

We’ve had one, yes. What about second Bracer of Benevolence?

[maskedmelon]

We’ve had one, yes. What about second Bracer of Benevolence?

*tosses a Small Leather Bracer at baakss, hitting him softly in the groin with it*

[Mytral]

How many people are showing up to scout these days?

10710

[Erati]

I even think 55 would be better than 50. Bringing useless toons that can't contribute to the fight in any way is bullshit. Clean it up 2019.

The Captain is only lvl 55-56, lvl 50 characters in a group effort can deal w him pretty easy. 1 group of lvl 45-49 players can probably kill him even if the class comp is right.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

I never noticed any level 5s there when I was doing Scout. Thankfully I got my BoB x 2 so I'm done with that shite. Won twice in 7 days with only having attended a couple of rolls in between the occasions where I won. Feels good baby!

[kjs86z]

Going to recant my initial post and second the motion to make it 55+

Pixel sickness is real, at least get to 55 before rolling and doing a trivial encounter for (realistically speaking) BiS loot.

[Hideousclaw]

I 100% agree with 55+

[Jimjam]

The Captain is only lvl 55-56, lvl 50 characters in a group effort can deal w him pretty easy. 1 group of lvl 45-49 players can probably kill him even if the class comp is right.

So really 56+ should be banned from rolling to prevent them from monopolising and bottom feeding low level content; go back to yer dragons! :D

[branamil]

If you've been waking up at odd hours for months for a chance to get +15 HP to wrist I feel sorry for you. It doesn't affect you in any realistic way

[wagorf]

-1

i spent weeks/months doing scouts rolls to gear two toons, this means parking them ( lvl 60 and 55) in ww for the whole time. i never felt that the presence of low levels lowered my chance to win a roll, and i hardly see any sub 50s.

seriously, a few low lvl showing up is not the main reason why u coudn't win the roll, that's some absurd reasoning

[ScottBerta]

I agree

[Foxplay]

I like Pizza Rolls

[toasteroven]

+1 for pizza rolls

Baby steps. 50+ is a step in the right direction. If there's going to be a "player agreement" and players are going to help with the kill, then why not make it 50+ ? Either the player agreement makes sense, or just abandon it. I'm trying to make the player agreement make more sense. Even if it's in small steps.

TLDR: Steps, Sense, Player Agreement, Pizza Rolls

[Tethler]

50+ seems like a fair compromise.

[DiogenesThaDogg]

If the roll becomes 50+, all of you will still be rolling against the same people, just at different times or perhaps on different toons. It doesn't really change anything.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

If the roll becomes 50+, all of you will still be rolling against the same people, just at different times or perhaps on different toons. It doesn't really change anything.

https://i.imgur.com/DLocJ8E.jpg

[Tethler]

If the roll becomes 50+, all of you will still be rolling against the same people, just at different times or perhaps on different toons. It doesn't really change anything.

Likely true. People will just be (slightly) less salty when they lose if it's not some lowbie alt.

[aaezil]

Yeah but 55+

People like the current 60 player rolls?

Seriously?

[Maschenny]

Sub 50’s should get to roll twice and use the sum of their two rolls. The faster we get these subway 50’s out of the way the faster we can get to some competitive 55+ rolling.

[Erati]

Yeah but 55+

People like the current 60 player rolls?

Seriously?

Who is going to be the level police? If someone shows up anon then what?

Will there be an official 'Scout Roll Commission' that has lvl 40-59 toons parked at the roll spot to con perpetrators?

[baakss]

Who is going to be the level police? If someone shows up anon then what?

Will there be an official 'Scout Roll Commission' that has lvl 40-59 toons parked at the roll spot to con perpetrators?

Unanon when you win or it goes to the next person?

Maybe you're right, this might be too much complexity for all us who are only used to DKP.

[Muggens]

55+, cannot be anon
Should not be difficult to observe

[Jimjam]

I'll take 55+ roll only if sub 55s get to roll first and attempt to pull/kill captain first.

If the 'lowbies' fail the 'elites' get to recover the attempt and kill it without sub 55 assistance and then roll for loot rights.

That's unnecessarily complicated though, as are all these suggestions, so really the expedient thing to do is keep scout as is. It seems to ensure sufficient pull and kill force and I'm hesitant to make incremental changes that could jeopardise this.

[reznor_]

https://i.imgur.com/kzdXVar.png

I kept track, took me 89 rolls. I admit I didn't like losing to someone who conned green...but eh, trying to add rules like this makes it too complicated. It's not like the ring roll or shady goblin. I just have shit dice :D

[Primordial Ooze]

How low level do people actually go for this roll? I haven't been in months and I've never actually conned the crowd. I had assumed pretty much everyone was at least 45 or so.

[Obeast44]

https://i.imgur.com/kzdXVar.png

I kept track, took me 89 rolls. I admit I didn't like losing to someone who conned green...but eh, trying to add rules like this makes it too complicated. It's not like the ring roll or shady goblin. I just have shit dice :D

I love how you've got Khaall's natural horrible spelling in the quote! :D




If you con green to my 55+, I wont be helping.

[Diabolic2442]

Let's add a variance to Scout Roll, should get rid of half the people who aren't willing to sock it.

[Senescant]

If you con green to my 55+, I wont be helping.

I know tons of people don't bother to help after they lose their roll, but you'd be breaking the player agreement

[branamil]

You get a reward for not rolling 90 times too. You don't have to wake up at odd hours and stare at the screen for 20 extra hours per month in exchange for like 20 hp or mana. You were holding they keys to your own loot prison this whole time

[Meguvin]

58+ for scout.
Captain is 58.
if u are under 55 u cant take him without 58+ ppl help and On live your guild would not help to kill him.

[Stroboo]

60 only or no level limit - nobody “needs” a BoB to get maximum exp...so why should a certain level indicate whether you are allowed to /random something or not. Greedy greedy greedy

[Awweshux]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[elwing]

Yep, exactly this, except if lately it has been filled with 20sub lvl40, i don't see a valid reason to clutter the server with more rules...

[DiogenesThaDogg]

58+ for scout.
Captain is 58.
if u are under 55 u cant take him without 58+ ppl help and On live your guild would not help to kill him.

This is just false. I did things for people all the time on live and consequently they were willing to help me with reasonable requests. Asking a couple of people to spend 20 minutes helping you with a trivial encounter in order to gear an alt is far from unreasonable.

Also, as Erati already said, it's probably possible for a solid group or two of upper 40s to beat this encounter.

[Incubo]

I would love to see a group of 40s kill the captain and train the other giants away with no assistance. Dont be ridiculous.

[DiogenesThaDogg]

I would love to see a group of 40s kill the captain and train the other giants away with no assistance. Dont be ridiculous.

Upper 40s, and if all had decent gear I don't see why this is a ridiculous claim to make. +1 for a kiter if you insist.

[enjchanter]

I'm confused, ppl are upset they cant get their free loot fast enough?

[aaezil]

Lol captain would destroy a level 40 tank in 3-4 rounds. Silly noobs.

[azeth]

Upper 40s, and if all had decent gear I don't see why this is a ridiculous claim to make. +1 for a kiter if you insist.

The Captain is level 58 and unslowable. There is no amount of a gear on a lvl 40-50 player that would allow them to tank this mob for the amount of time it'd take lvl 40-50 dps to kill him.

You would need a legitimate CH chain rolling. This is akin to fighting Vindicator with 1 group of 60s.

[Legidias]

I'm confused, ppl are upset they cant get their free loot fast enough?

Isn't this pretty much applicable to 100% of p99 tho?

[Freakish]

The Captain is level 58 and unslowable. There is no amount of a gear on a lvl 40-50 player that would allow them to tank this mob for the amount of time it'd take lvl 40-50 dps to kill him.

You would need a legitimate CH chain rolling. This is akin to fighting Vindicator with 1 group of 60s.

Why all these assumptions that the lvl 40 wouldn't just have their lvl 60 monk buddy tank it? Even lvl 40 cleric heals will keep him up.

If I was a noob who found this quest mob up randomly and needed help I would just ask for help. It would be stupid trying it with ungeared friends of my own level.

[azeth]

Why all these assumptions that the lvl 40 wouldn't just have their lvl 60 monk buddy tank it? Even lvl 40 cleric heals will keep him up.

If I was a noob who found this quest mob up randomly and needed help I would just ask for help. It would be stupid trying it with ungeared friends of my own level.

Oh i was responding to a guy saying a bunch of 40-50s could take it themselves. Or so i thought!

[Freakish]

I'm not singling you out. I just find the whole premise that a lvl 40 would bring other lvl 40s ridiculous. Normal people will just ask a higher level guildmate for help and then the encounter is trivial.

[kjs86z]

55+

/thread

[Erati]

Lol captain would destroy a level 40 tank in 3-4 rounds. Silly noobs.

A lvl 40 tank sure but earlier we were saying lvl 50 is a barrier for roll and I fully feel a full group of lvl 50 could handle the captain let alone 2 groups.

Lvl 40ies could prob three group it but you wouldnt have access to cleric epic resing mid fight but in a vacuum no question a lvl 50 warrior, two lvl 40+ clerics, a druid (kite harmony ds heals) and two dps can kill the thing.

Are they allowed to use reapers n soulfires like raiders do? You betcha

Lvl 50 clerics who raid sky regularly have CH necks w two instant CH charges as well.

If a ragtag band of Lowerguk geared players in their mid 40ies tried Captain sure prob fails but a closer to 50 focused group tried it shouldnt be an issue to kill 1 mob w the amount of rollers.

[Bardp1999]

This thread devolved into nonsense

[7thGate]

ALS did my General V`Gheera fight with 23 people, none of whom were over level 55, with zero epics and a level 53 tank. We didn't even have anyone with a Seb Key at that point, so pretty much everyone was in old world gear with a tiny smattering of some of the easier Velious drops. V`Gheera is very significantly harder than the Kromzek Captain, even with half the HP; he hits twice as hard and procs a nasty, nasty life tap. We definitely could have killed the captain easily there.

I'm pretty sure that given the average gear quality available on the server, two groups in the high 40's/low 50's would be able to take him.

[azeth]

ALS did my General V`Gheera fight with 23 people, none of whom were over level 55, with zero epics and a level 53 tank. We didn't even have anyone with a Seb Key at that point, so pretty much everyone was in old world gear with a tiny smattering of some of the easier Velious drops. V`Gheera is very significantly harder than the Kromzek Captain, even with half the HP; he hits twice as hard and procs a nasty, nasty life tap. We definitely could have killed the captain easily there.

I'm pretty sure that given the average gear quality available on the server, two groups in the high 40's/low 50's would be able to take him.

Every person in the high 40s would be contributing nothing other than buffs and heals.

So if every single DPS and tank is in the "low 50's" then maybe. If the tank or any of DPS is below 50, they might as well not attend.

Reminds me PUG Vox/Nag raids back in the day. You show up with 60 people forgetting 52 of them are so low/poorly geared that they turn into a net negative. Suddenly Vox is chasing a lvl 45 rogue and you're losing the DPS race because you're chasing her etc.

[7thGate]

Vox is very different due to AOE. We had a level 24 ranger at my general fight, who did 300 damage over the course of the battle, or slightly under 1% of total damage. Melee scales much, much better than casters in terms of being able to affect higher level MOBs. A level 24 wizard would have done nothing, but the level 24 ranger was pulling about 20% as much damage as one of the high 40's DPS.

A level 40 melee and a level 50 melee actually hit pretty much identically hard given identical gear, as to hit and damage formulas are not level based, they're skill based and melee skills don't change between level 40 and level 50. It is really just the tank that you badly need to be as high level as possible.

[Erati]

^ exactly

Killing 1 non-AoEing mob w a zerg of lvl 40 players really isnt that difficult unless half your dps is wizard who cant land spells on red cons. I wager you could pet wall Captain even, 15 level 45 mages/necros can kill him easily!