The Solo dungeon crawl

[MikeXG]

I am looking to make a minor Twink class that is 100% solo. They don't need to be the best or fastest soloist, just viable. I also want to level them as much as possible in dungeons or off the beaten path camps. My goal is to go to a place, go through it and move on to the next, repeating as little as possible. It is going to be a slow journey - but with all that said I also want this class to be a bit martial. I considered shaman, especially with some of the new items out post chardok, but I am also strongly considering SK. I want to feel like I am hacking and slashing my way through the dungeon, not root rotting. So if I did shaman I would try and slow tank as much as I could. Ranger is also considered although I feel they are limited indoors. I've also considered monk, but there are so many monks out there I am hesitant to just be another lizard flopping his way through dungeons.

Would love any thoughts, comments, suggestions.

Thanks!

(clickies a class has access too are a plus!)

[Alesclandre]

I loved solo dungeon crawling with my SK on live, you have to either be able to crowd control or FD split pull imo.

[Tyrgrim]

I agree that SK might be your best bet. You should look trough and gather a few different clickable and rechargable items to help you on the way.

[MikeXG]

I was leaning towards SK or Shaman and SK seemed to fit the mold I am looking for a bit better, despite being a "weaker" solo class. They have invisible, IVU, FD. That alone means getting around the dungeons will be easier. They have a snare available to them (even in a clickie form) so mobs won't run and cause trains or other issues. Fear kiting, although risky and not viable in dungeons, does allow them to solo with minimal downtime. Especially if you get clickie darkness and clickie fear.

What other items are must haves for this play style? Any tactics that are not obvious for soloing as an SK in tight spaces?

thanks all

[Crede]

Have you thought about bard? They’ll be the best solo dungeon crawler until 50, because their charm uses no mana. After that, charm still works but you will have to med eventually. Their snare is also the best in the game and you can stack pretty big dots with that. They still can melee, so somewhat hack n slash as you put it. This is what I did on my bard and it was a blast. I didn’t even stock up on root nets which would be a game changer in certain situations.

Sk is another option but they will need fungi haste and tons of resist gear to really attempt any dungeon that has a significant amount of casters. Troll is gonna be the best race for this with all the clickies Regen and slam. You won’t be fearing in that many dungeons.

[Nycon43]

Would paladin be any good for this? Root/Stun/Lull is pretty nice to have in tight quarters, I'd imagine. DW helm for downtime healing as well. SK snare/FD is pretty good though, hard to say.

[Crede]

Would paladin be any good for this? Root/Stun/Lull is pretty nice to have in tight quarters, I'd imagine. DW helm for downtime healing as well. SK snare/FD is pretty good though, hard to say.

I'd probably give pally the edge until 50. I've played both, I just find SK spells more enjoyable vs Pallies. Both are gonna be rough 50+ with little dps, but Sks will get the edge there being able to fear kite places and having more dps based spells.

[Danth]

No melee class is truly good for solo'ing.

Inside a dungeon a Paladin can maintain a somewhat higher killrate than a Shadow Knight due to massive amounts of self-healing available from deepwater click items (level 45-plus), saving much downtime between kills. Maintaining that kill rate will also consume a massive amount of damage shield potions, but the option's there. Few do this. Paladin struggles to reliably pull. Breaking tough areas ranges from difficult to outright impractical. Paladin root (just "root" until high level) isn't going to lock down a 4-pull. Soon as you get a critical lull fail you're either capping out or eating dirt.

Shadow Knight can get around more easily and can hold his camp in the face of mistakes, bad pulls, and other players trying to train you out of your camp (it happens). He can split difficult camps. Between these factors he has a wider range of areas available than the Paladin has, even if he might do them a little slower. Weak self-healing (either a fungus tunic at 150 HP/min all the time or a velious quest chestplate at ~400HPmin outside combat) limits their potential killrate. Expect to consume a great many damage shield potions with this one too, although they get by without more effectively than a Paladin does. Some dungeons permit use of fear-kiting, but there are definitely areas where it's impractical.

Both hybrids really like having at least a duo partner; in either case solo is not their forte.

He could play a melee-oriented Shaman. They don't have to root/dot. It's perfectly valid for a Shaman to use a decent-ratio weapon (often but not always 2-handed) and melee via slow and self heals, using damage spells to compensate for lower priest melee tables. Against things which can summon that's often the preferred method of Shaman solo, indoors or not. Some solo-oriented Shaman players prefer to gear with a focus on health and armor for that reason.

Danth

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Couple things, OP.

Depending on what dungeons you are wanting to do this with you may need to be really twinked. You could probably crawl most dungeons in which there are level 30ish mobs with a moderately twinked SK/Paladin, but once you start dealing with mobs that are in the lower/mid 40's like in lower Guk you will find that even a really twinked SK/PAL will be a very inefficient soloing experience, though you could probably clear an area slowly with long med/heal breaks in between fights.

I have no experience with sham, but I wouldn't let the fact that there are so many monks dissuade you from playing monk, especially if you have never done it before. There is a reason they are popular. Definitely OP but it is an experience everyone should have I think. Roll human if being more unique is important to you.

Even a moderately twinked monk will be able to crawl and solo much more efficiently at higher levels than a SK or PAL.

[Tyrgrim]

I was leaning towards SK or Shaman and SK seemed to fit the mold I am looking for a bit better, despite being a "weaker" solo class. They have invisible, IVU, FD. That alone means getting around the dungeons will be easier. They have a snare available to them (even in a clickie form) so mobs won't run and cause trains or other issues. Fear kiting, although risky and not viable in dungeons, does allow them to solo with minimal downtime. Especially if you get clickie darkness and clickie fear.

What other items are must haves for this play style? Any tactics that are not obvious for soloing as an SK in tight spaces?

thanks all

Your main problem will be quick escapes. You might want to avoid caster mobs if possible, and pull to zone if possible.

Gives you 5 charges of 6sec stuns. Cheap recharge at 6p.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn_Totem_of_Rolfron_Zek

Complete heal
https://wiki.project1999.com/Reaper_of_the_Dead

And a circlet of shadows, for stealth.

[eadric]

Ranger is the best of course, but not the easiest to twink properly. Dark cloak of the sky is a pain to get, but well worth it.

[Domisk]

Necro is best for dungeon crawls hands down solo.

[eadric]

Maybe for a skilled necro like you Domisk, my necro just died constantly in Lguk! the OP did say that he wanted to hack and slash though, not root rot.

[Stroboo]

Shadow knights dps is so low, it is really slow. Ranger or monk imo for solo melee action but I do not have experience with a bard. SK are a lot of fun, but they are well suited for 6person grps much more then solo

[jolanar]

Shadow knights dps is so low, it is really slow.

Putting the crawl in dungeon crawl.

[Fragged]

Chose a dungeon you aren't "that" familiar with. Some of the best time I've had on p99 was leveling my druid from 49 to 56 in Kedge Keep exploring and slowly mastering the zone.

[Legidias]

Optimal solo bard won't be hack and slash, but if you're looking for ease (even if super slow) bard has the best options.

You -can- just melee mobs, then when low, mez them and twist regen to heal all the way up, then continue. Not advisable due to DPS speed, but if time isn't an issue, you can kill any mob you can mezz.

[DMN]

I solo'd the froglok king on my SK at level 50, which was unheard of at the time. Garbage gear mostly bronze and a gigantic zweihander.


the trick is finding ideal fear kiting spots where the pathing is predictable and favorable .Darl, fear, beat the crap out of them, when fear breaks don't cast again but instead run back to the start of your fear kitting area and then fear.

[Ennewi]

Shadow Knights are much better at dungeon crawling later in levels, in my experience, but before that it can feel unrewarding; you'll be able to crawl to the specific camps, and probably single pull, but damned if you'll be able to kill the mobs with great efficiency. At higher levels, the pet actually deals out considerable damage with lifetap sticks, equivalent to a substantial dot. Also, depending on gear, higher level SKs can FD to the secret vault in the Hole with relative ease and split the chests there, having a little inconspicuous corner of the zone carved out for themselves; they can manage the same for xp in a few other dungeons as well. Fear kiting is possible in certain areas and having a polished obsidian great axe will save a lot of mana and hassle of repeatedly clicking blood ember boots, while having the greaves will simplify the whole process of moving between camps with see invis mobs.

Once Shadow Knights have death peace, it's nigh impossible to die after one or even two fails. But consider the level that spell becomes available. Also consider how much stronger the class is with the epic, holgresh elder beads (pulling tool/lifetap fodder/hammer out option), and a circlet of shadow. It's expensive, but eventually the class does pay off in terms of self-sufficiency. Even so, SKs are still better suited for duoing than soloing, as are the other hybrids excluding Bards of course which have the most versatility of the four.

As others have said, Monks are very capable dungeon crawlers and worth considering (even for how common they are), having instant feign death, mend, higher bind wound ability, and useful disciplines later on. They can be expensive to gear, but most of the equipment is more of a luxury than outright necessity, and the epic is obtainable without too much work or platinum; the same cannot be said for the majority of hybrid classes.

Not that it hasn't already been mentioned, but Shamans can be geared to match a tankier, more melee-centric playstyle and they have truly powerful spells to compensate for where they are lacking, including a pet that, while by no means the best, is still better than a Shadow Knight's. Just having slows, roots, and heals would be enough to wade through the sea of mobs in most dungeons, but there's so much more to pick and choose from for your spell bar that should help make the class function like a hybrid tank. Hell, eventually you can even acquire the sky ring that has two charges of feign death. What's more, the epic is a one-hander with clicky dot; wielding a shield with racial slam would create more of a melee hybrid feel while still incorporating the damage output pure classes are capable of.

[Bristlebaner]

A raid geared SK can do quite a bit...not sure what untwinked looks like.

[elwing]

The same for utility, but way more fragile and with less regen means... So face tanking way less but able to do pretty much the sane when using fear kiting or such... Just a tad slower

[Teppler]

Do yourself a favor and make a shaman for face tank leveling. You’ll thank me later.

[jolanar]

There is this weird idea on the forum about how shamans are some kind of melee class. That's very misleading in my opinion. They are a caster/priest class that can sometimes stand in melee range when a mob is slowed. After like, level 30, your damage will primarily come from dots and your pet. Root is amazing but you will not have the mana to be splitting dungeon rooms with more than 2 mobs without a clicky damage item (jbb or epic), hell even 2 mobs will be very difficult in the lower levels without running out of mana. What shamans can do with a 3 minute root and epic is far far different than what they can before that.

Don't play a shaman if you want a melee class. Also, don't play a shaman if you want a dungeon crawling class that can level up that way.

OP if you want a melee that can dungeon crawl you are really limited to either Monk or Shadowknight.

Obviously an Enchanter or Necromancer will blow both of those class out of the water as far as what dungeons you can crawl solo.

[Arkanjil]

Well said Jolanar, totally agree with you on Shaman. Once a shaman has their epic and/or jbb , then lvl 60 with torpor, then can do some really cool stuff, but they are limited before that.

If you wanted to go melee and dungeon crawl, the easiest options would be shadow knight and monk, since they can FD pull. After that, paladin and ranger could be possible, depending on the dungeon. None of these will crawl a dungeon quickly, but that doesn’t sound like the goal. I’ve also crawled Seb on my bard doing, doing melee/dot dmg until I need to heal, then mez mob and Regen up. That can be kinda fun as well.

[Teppler]

I’ll write something up detailed soon. Shaman are high voltage. Although they have better ways to solo eventually, they do the face tanking solo up to 60 better than any melee.

[Ennewi]

There is this weird idea on the forum about how shamans are some kind of melee class. That's very misleading in my opinion. They are a caster/priest class that can sometimes stand in melee range when a mob is slowed.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291394
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248914
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48014

First three links from google search, all with the same conclusion: Not a melee class, but okayish when wielding certain proc weapons and tanks fine versus slowed target while pet attacks and dots tick away.

After like, level 30, your damage will primarily come from dots and your pet.

The same level when Shadow Knights can start dungeon crawling safely, but their dots and pets still won't compensate for a lack of melee damage when attempting to facetank. Not until around level 50 does that changeover start to occur and, even then, their melee output still won't be all that great until the skill tables update.

Don't play a shaman if you want a melee class. Also, don't play a shaman if you want a dungeon crawling class that can level up that way.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140014

Old 02-18-2014, 06:32 PM
Danth
Planar Protector

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,404
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More to the point, a solo Shaman is more of a melee than a solo Shadow Knight in that the Shaman *can* reliably go toe-to-toe with stuff if he wants to. Solo Shadow Knights mostly fear-kite.


OP if you want a melee that can dungeon crawl you are really limited to either Monk or Shadowknight.

So agreed, to an extent. The actual process of dungeon crawling as a Shaman would be difficult under normal circumstances, but no more difficult than a Shadow Knight having enough space to solo their single pull in the same dungeon they crawled through repeatedly, searching for such a location. The higher the level and the better the gear, the less this becomes true for both. But given how (over)populated zones are now, space has suddenly opened up, enough to fear kite and facetank singles without worrying about adds. Getting singles as a Shaman shouldn't be difficult unless in zones like Kaesora, mid-level dungeons where Shadow Knights can move about freely but are limited for solo options until mobs give minimal, if any, experience. There are a few exceptions in Kaesora but again, it's less about crawling for Shadow Knights and more about pulling to a crawlspace.

As a workaround, Shamans can root and zone out for singles, slowly working their way deeper into a dungeon one kill at a time; Shadow Knights can use snare to do the same without worrying about Feign Death fails. This is truer now more than before, what with really fast zone times.

[loramin]

I think a huge part of the disconnect here is that Shaman solo differently at different levels. At level 1 every class tanks, and at level 60 (with Torpor) Shaman again do lots of tanking. But in-between?

For large, pivotal chunks of our leveling we can tank, but it's generally a bad idea (though it does vary by mob and your exact level). In general stuff just hits for too much damage if you tank, even with slow, and it takes too much mana to heal that damage. We root/rot instead to avoid that damage.

So Shaman aren't just one thing, and I think that explains the different responses here. From start to finish we're capable of tanking, but at the same time face-tanking is an inefficient way to level for many levels. That makes Shaman perfect for this dungeon crawl idea in a way, but also a poor choice if you really want to face tank the whole time.

[Danth]

That's the thing Loramin, having to tank is just as inefficient for the regular melee types. They have to absorb those same big hits (and more of them due to no slow), and might not have any heal spells to top up health with afterward. The difference is that the melees have little choice but to suck it up, while the Shaman has the more efficient root-based option staring him in the face. Ie, you're not wrong, you're very much right--just remember to apply it to everyone. Even without level 60 and Torpor, the Shaman still gets slow, regen, and decent heals in due time. Want a direct comparison from when the wife and I were leveling our Shadow Knight and Shaman (circa 2012)?

Because of our life (a newborn in the house) at that time both of us had to solo a lot, sometimes alternating one on here while the other took care of the daughter. We solo'd major portions of every level, sometimes the majority, at least into the 40's.

--Can't compare for the teens, my SK was an older, existing alt of mine that was already level 20 before the wife created her Shaman.

--During the low 20's the Shadow Knight had the advantage, especially during the 22-24 period where it could fear-kite and before the Shaman had canni. For that brief period my SK could level quicker than the wife's Shaman even in spite of the 40% penalty hybrids had at the time. From 24 to 29 the Shaman was roughly even in exp-gain rate, meaning the SK was still killing more due again to the now-removed experience penalty. The SK overwhelmingly fear-kited, and wasn't usually doing it in dungeon zones.

--From 29 onward the Shaman enjoyed a modest advantage, and from 34 onward the advantage became pronounced. By 40 there was no contest.

By 40, however, nobody really wanted to melee solo. The Shaman could do it, but as you said it was always better to play it like a caster. It could fight straight-up if it wanted to, but it never felt like there was much point in doing it that way unless the player simply felt like doing it. The Shadow Knight didn't want to melee straight-up either; the hits are high and the health recovery time--long. Until 50+, on the SK your only lifetap is a miserable 45 points, with high mana consumption. Face-tanking and spamming away with lifetap to keep going meant lengthy downtime.

--At 60 the Shadow Knight can get into camps and break camps much more easily than the Shaman. It's a great class for getting around and seeing parts of the game that few other players get to see. Once camp's broken and settled the Shaman's much stronger, whether it chooses to play as a caster or melee. It doesn't even need the meditate skill, the wife basically never sits unless she's AFK anyway.

That being said, stick those two classes together (or a Monk in place of the SK, they'll do the same stuff) and you have nearly all Norrath at your fingertips. The whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts, and as a duo we can do things that neither of us can solo.

Basically, I was trying to answer the OP's question within its parameters: If he wants to solo and do it in melee, I think the Shaman will give him the best long-term service. It'd probably be dreary at lower levels so if he wants instant gratification, pick something else. In reality I don't think he should necessarily do it at all, but that isn't what he asked. The only time melee-based solo-leveling really shines in this game is when the melee has expensive high-end droppable items (fungi, haste, etc) so as to overpower the content.

Danth

[loramin]

That's the thing Loramin, having to tank is just as inefficient for the regular melee types. They have to absorb those same big hits (and more of them due to no slow), and might not have any heal spells to top up health with afterward. The difference is that the melees have little choice but to suck it up, while the Shaman has the more efficient root-based option staring him in the face. Ie, you're not wrong, you're very much right--just remember to apply it to everyone. Even without level 60 and Torpor, the Shaman still gets slow, regen, and decent heals in due time. Want a direct comparison from when the wife and I were leveling our Shadow Knight and Shaman (circa 2012)?

Because of our life (a newborn in the house) at that time both of us had to solo a lot, sometimes alternating one on here while the other took care of the daughter. We solo'd major portions of every level, sometimes the majority, at least into the 40's.

--Can't compare for the teens, my SK was an older, existing alt of mine that was already level 20 before the wife created her Shaman.

--During the low 20's the Shadow Knight had the advantage, especially during the 22-24 period where it could fear-kite and before the Shaman had canni. For that brief period my SK could level quicker than the wife's Shaman even in spite of the 40% penalty hybrids had at the time. From 24 to 29 the Shaman was roughly even in exp-gain rate, meaning the SK was still killing more due again to the now-removed experience penalty. The SK overwhelmingly fear-kited, and wasn't usually doing it in dungeon zones.

--From 29 onward the Shaman enjoyed a modest advantage, and from 34 onward the advantage became pronounced. By 40 there was no contest.

By 40, however, nobody really wanted to melee solo. The Shaman could do it, but as you said it was always better to play it like a caster. It could fight straight-up if it wanted to, but it never felt like there was much point in doing it that way unless the player simply felt like doing it. The Shadow Knight didn't want to melee straight-up either; the hits are high and the health recovery time--long. Until 50+, on the SK your only lifetap is a miserable 45 points, with high mana consumption. Face-tanking and spamming away with lifetap to keep going meant lengthy downtime.

--At 60 the Shadow Knight can get into camps and break camps much more easily than the Shaman. It's a great class for getting around and seeing parts of the game that few other players get to see. Once camp's broken and settled the Shaman's much stronger, whether it chooses to play as a caster or melee. It doesn't even need the meditate skill, the wife basically never sits unless she's AFK anyway.

That being said, stick those two classes together (or a Monk in place of the SK, they'll do the same stuff) and you have nearly all Norrath at your fingertips. The whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts, and as a duo we can do things that neither of us can solo.

Basically, I was trying to answer the OP's question within its parameters: If he wants to solo and do it in melee, I think the Shaman will give him the best long-term service. It'd probably be dreary at lower levels so if he wants instant gratification, pick something else. In reality I don't think he should necessarily do it at all, but that isn't what he asked. The only time melee-based solo-leveling really shines in this game is when the melee has expensive high-end droppable items (fungi, haste, etc) so as to overpower the content.

Danth

I think we violently agree with each other :)

[Danth]

I think we violently agree with each other :)

Not even violently, just straight-up agreement. Just putting info and experiences out there so the OP (or any other reader) can make the most informed decision he can.

Danth

[Kefit]

A shaman with a granite face grinder can melee just as well as any other class with a good weapon until level 30 or so. Things start to fall off sharply after this point, as mobs start to deal more damage and as the shaman's own melee damage output begins to stink more and more compared to real melee classes.

Like I guess a level 40 shaman could face tank with slow, but why would you? You're not dealing significant enough melee damage to justify the use of HP. That HP is better used for canni dancing. While I know that SK's and Pallys aren't dps kings, I'm sure they're still dealing way more melee damage than a shaman at mid and high levels thanks to things like double attack and riposte.

Anyway, the real answer to this thread is to make a monk with HP rings, SCHW, and some Wu's weapons (maybe nicer weapons if you can afford it or if you find yourself enjoying the class after 10-20 levels). A fungi is extremely nice for reducing downtime, but isn't really a requirement to simply kill stuff.

I know there are tons of monk lizard twinks out there, but there's a reason for that. Instant feign death is one of the most game breaking mechanics in Everquest, and will allow you to solo dungeon crawl through level appropriate dungeons with relative safety. All those dumb Kunark dungeons with one way entrances? A monk can just jump in, and if you don't like it or get overwhelmed then you can just flop your way out. And if you do like what you find, then a monk's offensive and defensive skills and ready access to cheap powerful weapons will let you kill whatever you find.

[MikeXG]

Wow, I look away for 2 minutes and post blows up.

Thank you all for the replies, lots of your info is very helpful.

Yes - the intent for this is not to be the fastest or best soloist. My main is a 54 Necro and I have done some dungeon crawling with him. I just wanted to mix it up and not play a caster. I have a retired 51 bard that I duoed all the way up. I hate the thought of swarm kiting. Oddly enough he duoed with a shaman and we root rotted like crazy! I've fear kited and "mez rotted" too. He. was never well geared so maybe that would change how I feel about him? I could go back and gear him out and see how he feels. I understand that shaman is not melee, maybe just the most martial of the priests/casters?

I am still apprehensive on monk... correct me if I am wrong (have not played one since live) but they pretty much auto attack and kick/claw/flying kick? seems kinda boring combat. Fear kiting at least I have to re apply stuff and it is engaging. Again, maybe I am wrong?

How about Bard? It has been a bit since I've played mine, and like I said - they duoed with a shaman the whole way so... I hate swarm kiting and refuse to do it, it hurts the zone and perpetuates the stigma that bards are jerks. If I were to dungeon crawl on a bard, what would the tactics be? are good weapons worth getting or is it charm and chants with drum?

Thank you all again for all the detailed and friendly replies. much appreciated.

[Danth]

I understand that shaman is not melee, maybe just the most martial of the priests/casters?

A good way to put it would be to say the Shaman's not a conventional melee class, but it can fight IN melee if it so wishes. Pick non-Iksar for slam to feel more melee-like.

Without high-end equipment Monk and SK can be regarded as equivalent, monk'll give a faster killrate, SK gives you the option to fear-kite. Advanced tactics include things such as combat bind-wound or (for monk) swapping 2H weapon in-and-out for some offhand fist swings. I do not regard either class as great for solo if you're using cheap gear, but either of them have the option to do so. Monk has to watch his weight which can be a nuisance if you want to loot stuff and can't afford a supply of weight-reduction bags, but gets his melee skills (and feign) much earlier, making it potentially stronger out the gate.

Danth

[Ennewi]

Anyway, the real answer to this thread is to make a monk with HP rings, SCHW, and some Wu's weapons (maybe nicer weapons if you can afford it or if you find yourself enjoying the class after 10-20 levels). A fungi is extremely nice for reducing downtime, but isn't really a requirement to simply kill stuff.

Agreed. Seems like the debate is more about what is the more worthwhile solo method for each class, which everyone seems to agree on more or less, it's just a question of can you versus should you with all things considered. Either way, Shamans and Shadow Knights aren't ideal separately for dungeon crawling, but complement each other well. Honestly, it's hard to argue with choosing a Monk over the other classes.

[MikeXG]

I played Monk on live. After reading all of the wonderful info posted, going over wiki info, available gear, required gear, and fun clickies... I think it comes down to SK, Shaman, and Bard. I'd love to hear more about high level bard solo play as I have only really duoed with my bard. Specifically in tight places where one could not kite, swarm, etc. I have a 24 shaman and 24 SK both with respectable gear. I have about 9K to blow and it will either go to twinking SK or shaman or re gearing my bard.

Thanks all

[Crede]

I played Monk on live. After reading all of the wonderful info posted, going over wiki info, available gear, required gear, and fun clickies... I think it comes down to SK, Shaman, and Bard. I'd love to hear more about high level bard solo play as I have only really duoed with my bard. Specifically in tight places where one could not kite, swarm, etc. I have a 24 shaman and 24 SK both with respectable gear. I have about 9K to blow and it will either go to twinking SK or shaman or re gearing my bard.

Thanks all

50+ bard dungeon crawling will mostly consist of charming a mob, sending it on other target, dotting it, then switching targets when charms break and dot old pet, repeat. Depending on the area, if you are comfortable with the environment, bard snare is extremely powerful and you can also fear kite in pretty tight spaces, timing your breaks and watching positioning while loading it up with dots and throwing in some face tanking. You will eventually run oom and have to afk for a long while as bards cap at 2 mana regen/tick sitting. If you continuously stock up on root nets, you can do some serious damage, even just sitting back and loading up as many dots as possible, but more importantly helping control additional adds if you get them on a crawl.

Thing about bard play in general is it just gets exhausting after awhile. I too, played a monk on live, so had no desire to play one here. Based on your original post, I think SK is the right move. They aren't fast soloers, but viable and you'll get some nice hack and slash and if you ever do raid they get access to some pretty cool toys. I've been leveling one and having FD again is great. I went Iksar because I prefer the way they look in Velious, along with regen & ac bonus. Greenmist is a nice perk too as I'll likely be skipping the epic. But can't really go wrong with any of their race choices. Will be even more fun next patch once they get on warrior dmg table as well as 2H dmg bonus.

[MikeXG]

50+ bard dungeon crawling will mostly consist of charming a mob, sending it on other target, dotting it, then switching targets when charms break and dot old pet, repeat. Depending on the area, if you are comfortable with the environment, bard snare is extremely powerful and you can also fear kite in pretty tight spaces, timing your breaks and watching positioning while loading it up with dots and throwing in some face tanking. You will eventually run oom and have to afk for a long while as bards cap at 2 mana regen/tick sitting. If you continuously stock up on root nets, you can do some serious damage, even just sitting back and loading up as many dots as possible, but more importantly helping control additional adds if you get them on a crawl.

Thing about bard play in general is it just gets exhausting after awhile. I too, played a monk on live, so had no desire to play one here. Based on your original post, I think SK is the right move. They aren't fast soloers, but viable and you'll get some nice hack and slash and if you ever do raid they get access to some pretty cool toys. I've been leveling one and having FD again is great. I went Iksar because I prefer the way they look in Velious, along with regen & ac bonus. Greenmist is a nice perk too as I'll likely be skipping the epic. But can't really go wrong with any of their race choices. Will be even more fun next patch once they get on warrior dmg table as well as 2H dmg bonus.

I think you are right - Bard is a lot of attention and action and my hands are old haha.

Thank you all for the info and comments. I think I am going to see how SK pains out. I wish ranger was more viable because that would be amazing but... I have a 50 ranger and it was a huge waste of time.....

[Arkanjil]

For bards, as mentioned earlier, mez rotting in tight spaces in dungeons is definitely viable and not bad. Bards have a lot in their toolkit to deal with situations that arise. As long as you don’t go over lvl 55 mobs, you can essentially kill any mob in a dungeon as a bard, just not quickly. As you get better gear, it makes it way easier, of course.

[MikeXG]

For bards, as mentioned earlier, mez rotting in tight spaces in dungeons is definitely viable and not bad. Bards have a lot in their toolkit to deal with situations that arise. As long as you don’t go over lvl 55 mobs, you can essentially kill any mob in a dungeon as a bard, just not quickly. As you get better gear, it makes it way easier, of course.

For this method is it more viable to go pure melee and buff yourself with your songs or is a drum and the chant dots higher DPS? I am sure it comes down to gear etc. I assume dots isn't the way to go or if it is you need to be careful as it will break mez if the dot is still active?

[astuce999]

50+ bard dungeon crawling will mostly consist of charming a mob, sending it on other target, dotting it, then switching targets when charms break and dot old pet, repeat. Depending on the area, if you are comfortable with the environment, bard snare is extremely powerful and you can also fear kite in pretty tight spaces, timing your breaks and watching positioning while loading it up with dots and throwing in some face tanking. You will eventually run oom and have to afk for a long while as bards cap at 2 mana regen/tick sitting. If you continuously stock up on root nets, you can do some serious damage, even just sitting back and loading up as many dots as possible, but more importantly helping control additional adds if you get them on a crawl.

Thing about bard play in general is it just gets exhausting after awhile. I too, played a monk on live, so had no desire to play one here. Based on your original post, I think SK is the right move. They aren't fast soloers, but viable and you'll get some nice hack and slash and if you ever do raid they get access to some pretty cool toys. I've been leveling one and having FD again is great. I went Iksar because I prefer the way they look in Velious, along with regen & ac bonus. Greenmist is a nice perk too as I'll likely be skipping the epic. But can't really go wrong with any of their race choices. Will be even more fun next patch once they get on warrior dmg table as well as 2H dmg bonus.

I fully endorse this post. When I solo in dungeons with my bard, I'm always tired at the end. Playing with an overgeared SK is just easy-going comparatively.

cheers,

Astuce

[Arkanjil]

For this method is it more viable to go pure melee and buff yourself with your songs or is a drum and the chant dots higher DPS? I am sure it comes down to gear etc. I assume dots isn't the way to go or if it is you need to be careful as it will break mez if the dot is still active?

Yeah melee and well timed dots only way to go. Hypothetically, if you know you’ll last 30-40 seconds before you need to mez, weave in 2-3 dots with Regen/slow then be ready to mez.

[MikeXG]

I did just watch an old video on youtube of cords crawling through Lguk.... def makes me think about bard a bit more... But Ultimately I am still sold on SK I think.

[Teppler]

So which class can melee more effectively 40-60 than shaman? Never mind that shaman can do other things. Let’s forget that for a moment. The op is asking for an unusual play style.

When you combine the best slows with best regen and decent dps you get the most viable melee at a face to face level.

I imagine when you break it down to real soloing you’re down to fear kiting classes like SK/Ranger or something with all sorts of other tools like Bard. Based on some work I did with a bard at level 30 recently, they were getting wrecked by blue mobs face to face. I suspect it’s not that great. On the other hand I remember soloing high keep guards at that level face tanking.

Get a fungi, haste item, pet, regen, slow, poison winds censer/gfg and smack things up face to face. I still do it at 60. I did it before torpor to earn money for torpor too. I remember face tanking NG mobs.

[Crede]

So which class can melee more effectively 40-60 than shaman? Never mind that shaman can do other things. Let’s forget that for a moment. The op is asking for an unusual play style.

When you combine the best slows with best regen and decent dps you get the most viable melee at a face to face level.

I imagine when you break it down to real soloing you’re down to fear kiting classes like SK/Ranger or something with all sorts of other tools like Bard. Based on some work I did with a bard at level 30 recently, they were getting wrecked by blue mobs face to face. I suspect it’s not that great. On the other hand I remember soloing high keep guards at that level face tanking.

Get a fungi, haste item, pet, regen, slow, poison winds censer/gfg and smack things up face to face. I still do it at 60. I did it before torpor to earn money for torpor too. I remember face tanking NG mobs.

Shaman is not a melee class. OP was looking for hack and slash, not hack and miss. We’re not denying shamans superior survivabilty in melee range.

[Wallicker]

I soloed the north wing of HS on my 58 bard and got my west key the other morning and am far from Twinked, albeit I didn’t do really any face to face tanking but you don’t need as much room as some would lead you to believe for dungeon stuff!

[MikeXG]

I soloed the north wing of HS on my 58 bard and got my west key the other morning and am far from Twinked, albeit I didn’t do really any face to face tanking but you don’t need as much room as some would lead you to believe for dungeon stuff!

Did you mostly charm?

[Wallicker]

No I’d think you’d go oom fairly quickly doing that, but charming a mob and sending it in to eat HTs and so you can garner control of 4+ mobs is very helpful, also having mana to charm oblations before things are opened up was important

[MikeXG]

No I’d think you’d go oom fairly quickly doing that, but charming a mob and sending it in to eat HTs and so you can garner control of 4+ mobs is very helpful, also having mana to charm oblations before things are opened up was important

Interesting. What primary tactics didnyou use for killing? I imagine there wouldnt be enough space to fear kite. Did you just melee and mez as needed when low on HP?

[Arkanjil]

Interesting. What primary tactics didnyou use for killing? I imagine there wouldnt be enough space to fear kite. Did you just melee and mez as needed when low on HP?

As long as you don’t fight mobs higher than 50, some wings in HS are safe to AE snare/dot down packs of mobs

[MikeXG]

As long as you don’t fight mobs higher than 50, some wings in HS are safe to AE snare/dot down packs of mobs

Hmm that does open up some possibilities. Would that be aoe dots also or swap targets with chants?

[Wallicker]

Aoe dots also

[Izmael]

I wanna see someone swarming HS.

[MikeXG]

I wanna see someone swarming HS.

Same. Any bard video i see is usually just a swarm tutorial in OT or something. Would be cool to see it done in tight corridors.

[Izmael]

The north wing would probably be a great candidate for this, or even the basement.

The oblations, though..

[Wallicker]

Roflmao, to actually “swarm HS” and not just kill 4-5 at a time would require either some preclearing in north or a lot of luck(no oblations up). Swarming the 10 entrance mobs is cake though. I’d imagine at 60 with DA song you could get a little more ballsy tho.

[Izmael]

Maybe calming all the oblations and pulling everything else away from them could work... But yeah, this is pretty unlikely to happen :p

[Terrel]

As long as you don’t fight mobs higher than 50, some wings in HS are safe to AE snare/dot down packs of mobs

I haven't done much AoE snaring with Assonant Strane....why 50? More resists, or is there a cap on it so that mobs over x can't be snared with it?

Thanks!

[Arkanjil]

I haven't done much AoE snaring with Assonant Strane....why 50? More resists, or is there a cap on it so that mobs over x can't be snared with it?

Thanks!

Mobs above that will summon :eek:

[MikeXG]

So if charming you eventually go OOM, and swarming is dicey, how does a bard solo in a dungeon typically? Or I guess a better way to ask is most efficiently? Lets say levels 50-55? It seems melee mixed with some mezzing and fear if able would make the most sense to me... but i donno shit so...

[Teppler]

Once I saw a bard solo named hiero. Took him like an hour to score the kill but he did it.

[Wallicker]

Now that’s really interesting as he summons and would resist mez consistently enough to where you wouldn’t be able to mez and heal

[Wallicker]

Actually he’s level 55 and unmezzable for a bard lol

[MikeXG]

In my experience there are 2 types of “solo” in eq. There is being an efficient solo class that can level on their own through various mechanics that lead to gaining XP in a fast and efficient manner IE: chanter charming, druid quading, necro fear kiting, shaman root rotting etc. The other type of solo is of you are capable of solo. I always heard bards were great in geoups and solo (swarm kiting). Do Bards only fit in the first category where they can efficiently solo to gain xp fast? And not so much solo that named mob or that cool wing of that dungeon that has drops etc?

[Wallicker]

Bards can swarm kite and level faster than anyone

[MikeXG]

Bards can swarm kite and level faster than anyone

Yep, this I know - never appealed to me honestly. Can they do the other solo at all? Or just efficient at getting XP via swarming?

[Crede]

Yep, this I know - never appealed to me honestly. Can they do the other solo at all? Or just efficient at getting XP via swarming?

Bards are efficient fear kiters, swarm kiters, and charmers(until level 50). As another person said if the mob can be mezzed they can eventually kill it If patient and skilled enough.

If you’re looking for a class really fit for dungeons 50+ With both efficient leveling and soloing Names it’s going to be an enchanter. Sure other classes can eventually do some of that as well. But they won’t have the tools to do it as easily, or cheaply.

This really isn’t a game designed for 100% solo to be unstoppable in all situations. You’re always better off forming a good duo/trio.

[ineubis]

Fear kiting, although risky and not viable in dungeons, does allow them to solo with minimal downtime. Especially if you get clickie darkness and clickie fear.

Apologize if this was already posted, TLDR... but IMO... clickie fear kiting (at least with Blood Ember boots and gloves) is a pipe dream....

Boots have a casting time of 7 seconds, and lasts for only 18 seconds, so you are basically chain clicking to reapply Fear doing minimal damage in the meantime. You might connect with a hit or two before you need to start casting Fear again.. and the fight will take forever.

The snare on the gloves is ok, but Engulfing Darkness doesn't slow their movement down as much so you are chasing a feared mob and keeping 2 clickies up with slow ass casting time.

I tried it several times, and now those items typically just sit in my bank.

Most efficiency I have found is to use BE gloves and also have Engulfing Darkness loaded, and just use Invoke Fear. You can pull or cast ED (lol) then keep reapplying snare the with gloves, it will save you some mana... but it's not a game changer.

[Crede]

Apologize if this was already posted, TLDR... but IMO... clickie fear kiting (at least with Blood Ember boots and gloves) is a pipe dream....

Boots have a casting time of 7 seconds, and lasts for only 18 seconds, so you are basically chain clicking to reapply Fear doing minimal damage in the meantime. You might connect with a hit or two before you need to start casting Fear again.. and the fight will take forever.

The snare on the gloves is ok, but Engulfing Darkness doesn't slow their movement down as much so you are chasing a feared mob and keeping 2 clickies up with slow ass casting time.

I tried it several times, and now those items typically just sit in my bank.

Most efficiency I have found is to use BE gloves and also have Engulfing Darkness loaded, and just use Invoke Fear. You can pull or cast ED (lol) then keep reapplying snare the with gloves, it will save you some mana... but it's not a game changer.

Good post.

I’ve found when doing a Longer grind just try to get a potg. Solves a lot of your mana issues and you can easily make that donation pp back at higher levels throughout the duration of it.

Having played a monk on live, having FD again is great on the SK. I’m not denying monks power, but having spells during the leveling process has been more enjoyable for me. And The pets are not as useless as I originally thought, with their extra bashes and especially if they’re max level makes for a decent dot.

[Sinadin]

I'd like to know more or a video how a bard solos HS north including key mob

[MikeXG]

I'd like to know more or a video how a bard solos HS north including key mob

This!

After all of the replies it is looking like SK unless someone can show or explain in detail a bards capability in situations like this.

Thanks again everyone!

[Wallicker]

Bro you wanna be a SK roll one, it’s that simple!

[MikeXG]

Bro you wanna be a SK roll one, it’s that simple!

Oh it has been done, he is 24 and relatively well geared. Doesn't mean I don't want to see some of these feats that a Bard can accomplish.

[Bardp1999]

I have a level 59 SK...without a Fungi tunic and some good haste you are not going to have a very good time. I dont know your situation but I would suggest farming yourself a Sword of Pain as well.

I solo'd my SK in several dungeons and I am currently shitting around Chardok and can solo pretty well in there. Clarity makes things 100x faster.

SK is a great choice and much better at dungeon crawling than a Bard. I have 50+ Bard/Monk/SK/Necro/Shaman/Druid/Enchanter and I would say Necro or SK would be my choice. You may not be slaying some uber named mobs on the SK but you can fiddle around and explore much easier than almost any class. Necro is probably a bit more potent but also feels WAAAY squishier. The SK is solid (keep in mind I am raid geared to the teeth)

Blood Ember Greaves are one of the best items you can get (allows FD with no CD, 3s cast), although a bit pricey

[Crede]

Oh it has been done, he is 24 and relatively well geared. Doesn't mean I don't want to see some of these feats that a Bard can accomplish.

Why wait? Go get on your bard and test aoe snare/charm tactics. Probably want to grab a WC cap. Singing steel bp has a great fast heal click effect if you can afford it that can be casted on the run(not everyone realizes this)

[Teppler]

Now that’s really interesting as he summons and would resist mez consistently enough to where you wouldn’t be able to mez and heal

One day I walked into crypt and there was a group there. But there was also a bard in hiero room. And when I got there named hiero was popped and he had a cloak.

The bard was soloing him. God I forget his name. I think he is in second sons. If i see his name, I'll know it. I see him around every once in a while.

The whole group was watching the bard, hoping he would die. They were trying to work something out with him where they would help him kill it and they would all roll on the loot.

He was taking painfully long to score the kill but it was definitely going in the right direction. He got named hiero below 50%. I just jumped in and helped him once I got bored of watching for like 30 mins.

His strat was keeping him mezzed for a long time while he would free heal himself with his BP. Then he would slowly damage him down once it was safe for a few seconds. It seemed ultra tedious. I don't know what bards would use to mezz named hieros. Bard is probably the class im least familiar with.

[Wallicker]

Bard mez only works on mobs lvl 54 and lower, maybe this used to be different?

[Wallicker]

Was he dual wielding lutes maybe he had dual melodious truncheons and would melee until a proc then heal up to full lol...that seriously would take for ever

[Teppler]

Was he dual wielding lutes maybe he had dual melodious truncheons and would melee until a proc then heal up to full lol...that seriously would take for ever

Definitely not. That would never work there. Gonna wait to see if any others bards chime in.