Rogue vs Monk 55+

[Dezik]

Hi all,

So with the announcement of the P99 Green (YES!) I am wanting to get back into p99. Asking for advice on which character Blue needs more right now and which one you guys feel is more useful/fun. I currently have both a Rogue (56) and a Monk (55). Both have their epics but only the Rogue is geared at the moment. I am kind of leaning towards monk seeing as how they can solo and I will be coming back alone sadly, but I know that rogues are much easier to get back into as far as their group role. Anyways, does the server lack one or the other? and if not, which do you think would be the better choice?

Thanks!

[Muggens]

Wizard!

[DromalPhrenia]

I don’t think the server lacks either class but it definitely does not lack monks.

[Tethler]

There are enough of everything, but rogues are always useful to have more.

[Jimjam]

Honestly, I think a monk will find more use out of being geared than an epic rogue.

I've been in plenty of groups where I've been tanking with 2 or 3 rogues DPSing. When I have to briefly go afk and suggest someone covers tanking I can guarantee the rogues will just sit there doing nothing until I get back and everyone will be okay with that (even though rogues take hits far better than an equivalently geared ranger, which are often in a tank role).

As a consequence of this, rogues can be rather neglectful of their armour as the truth is they will rarely take hits.

A monk on the other hand is likely to be pressured into tanking, or might take a few rounds of melee from splitting a couple of NPCs, so is worthwhile being geared to a standard that will half decently mitigate XP mobs.

[deathusurper]

Will agree with the Monk for the versatility factor alone. High melee DPS, tanking while the main assist is on AFK, splitting/pulling solo mobs, and the ability to solo rules. And the triple attack patch is arriving soonish for Monks.

But Only wondering, Jimjam. What camps are you expecting a Rogue to tank willingly? And over a Ranger? Well played Rangers are far better than any comparable Rogue for tanking.

[Evia]

Honestly, I think a monk will find more use out of being geared than an epic rogue.

I've been in plenty of groups where I've been tanking with 2 or 3 rogues DPSing. When I have to briefly go afk and suggest someone covers tanking I can guarantee the rogues will just sit there doing nothing until I get back and everyone will be okay with that (even though rogues take hits far better than an equivalently geared ranger, which are often in a tank role).

As a consequence of this, rogues can be rather neglectful of their armour as the truth is they will rarely take hits.

A monk on the other hand is likely to be pressured into tanking, or might take a few rounds of melee from splitting a couple of NPCs, so is worthwhile being geared to a standard that will half decently mitigate XP mobs.

I'm sorry man but this is 100% not true. My rogue is squishy as hell! Rangers way out tank a rogue! My rogue tanks maybe on par with a bard but probably still worse.
If I take 4X combat rounds I'm in trouble or the healer is oom.

Honestly OP I'm biased because I love rogues but Id say if you're leaning monk play that. Your rogue will be waiting when you are ready. Its not as if he's going anywhere!

[Jimjam]

It is a little surprising to hear you feel rangers so easily out tank your rogue.

Honestly, I'm not really expecting a rogue to take the tank role over a ranger; Rangers have great tools for controlling mobs, which rogues don't. Rogues do great dos with backstabbing. The meta dictates rangera gear and buff to tank adequately and keep their defence skills up. From what I understand these are not such priorities to a rogue?

My point is rogues aren't expected to step up as tank while maintank is AFK or has to unexpectedly leave. As such you're not exactly obliged to gear up much beyond epic+offhand.

[Muggens]

Anyone can tank a slowed mob:p tanked king camp improv many times with my rogue.

[Troxx]

The server doesn’t lack either class.

If it were me I’d focus my efforts in terms of chasing gear on the monk, and here’s why:

I might be atrociously wrong on this assumption (correct me if I’m wrong) but rogues are surprisingly not gear dependent. If you have your epic and a high quality offhand you’re going to operate at 95-99% capacity. Good weapons and haste are all that is required. Bonus points for worn attack items (rare/expensive) and **enough** hp/resists to survive any aoes or accidental aggro. In a raid situation you’re going to have at a minimum an extra 1700-1800 hp over your base unbuffed stats so “good enough” isn’t a very high bar for most content in this game.

Monk, on the other hand, benefits hugely from gear. Ac/resists/hp are clutch for pulling/tanking and raw hp also increases the potency of skills like mend. A well geared monk brings tons of extra to the table compared to a monk with crap gear but the same weapons/haste. I’m not sure that the same can be said for a well geared rogue vs a rogue with crap gear but the same weapons/haste.

Rogues are the kings of dps currently. Monks are pretty solid for now but stand to dramatically shift around the balance with the final patch. 55+ get new/improved damage tables (better than any melee tables currently) with a final best in game base damage tables at 60. 60 also sees primary hand triple attack. Flying kick gets improved including a much higher minimum kick value. 2h dmg bonus revamp makes items like TStaff and IFS powerhouse weapons. The raid 2hand weapons for monk stand to be incredibly strong, possibly better than BiS endgame raid 1handers (new tables + triple attack + dmg bonus increase). From dmg bonus alone you can conservatively estimate >10% gain from dmg bonus alone (possibly more) plus another 5% from triple attack if using 2hander. I’m not sure how much better the 55/60 dmg tables will be over the current ones.

However good and OP monks are currently (quite tanky + pulling + fd + solid dps) ... they will get even better. I’m very interested to see just how good the dps output will be and to what degree they threaten rogue level dps.

I love playing my monk but the last patch is neato enough I have the monk parked/paused at 59. I want to experience plowing through 60 with an improved TStaff. Whenever I hit 60 on a character I find that I generally end up playing them less.

[Muggens]

Monks should never get the triple attack here

[Troxx]

It is a little surprising to hear you feel rangers so easily out tank your rogue.

Honestly, I'm not really expecting a rogue to take the tank role over a ranger; Rangers have great tools for controlling mobs, which rogues don't. Rogues do great dos with backstabbing. The meta dictates rangera gear and buff to tank adequately and keep their defence skills up. From what I understand these are not such priorities to a rogue?

My point is rogues aren't expected to step up as tank while maintank is AFK or has to unexpectedly leave. As such you're not exactly obliged to gear up much beyond epic+offhand.

Rogue defensive skills are better than most people give them credit for. They mitigate and avoid aggro better than rangers. Rangers function in the tank role globally better thanks to potent, cheap, and fast casting aggro, but when it comes to who actually takes less damage when being beat on, rogues are undeniably superior. Unlike rangers, though, when they ARE taking the damage they take a massive hit to their primary duty of making things dead (no backstab). Rangers suffer no more or less damage output than any of the real plate tanks or a monk.

Rouges can tank, it’s just not ideal to have them do it. Dps drops acutely and they’ve got no real way of quickly establishing and aggro lead or getting it back once it’s lost.

[7thGate]

Depends on the Rogue and how well prepared they are. If I know I might need to tank, I bring slow poison. Downside is that it requires 10 seconds between mobs, upside is that it is a huge aggro opener+slow+root that trivializes taking initial aggro.

Also, Rogues have the same defensive skills as warriors, and get extra bonuses from high AGI no one else gets (EDIT: actually, I think monks also get this, and more of it). We just have relatively low HP and worse AC returns over the soft cap, plus a disincentive to gear for AC since it is so rarely our job to tank things. We can do ok though.

[Expediency]

Rogue can take some hits early in the game but once you get higher up (certainly 50+) rogues are very poor tanks and a ranger is better. Even if they take equal damage, rogues lose utility when tanking because they cant backstab and rangers have ways of getting mob aggro that rogues do not.

Rogues are underrated pullers on p99. Thats a better second role than tanking imo

[Troxx]

Even if they take equal damage, rogues lose utility when tanking because they cant backstab and rangers have ways of getting mob aggro that rogues do not.

Rogues don’t take equal damage, they take less. Look up the skill differences defense/riposte/parry/dodge. Rangers cap low. Rogues cap high. Same returns on stamina, same base armor archetype.

Don’t get me wrong, rangers make unequivocally better functional tanks. They have aggro spells. Rogues give up backstab (huge loss), rangers give up next to nothing. But when it comes to raw damage intake when being hit ... rogues are stout and only suffer from not wearing plate and having the same low hp tables as bards/rangers. If threat weren’t an issue, they would outperform rangers.

Rangers are, from a strictly damage intake perspective, the paper tanks of EQ. Literally every other melee class will take less damage if gear levels are identical. Rogue, bard, monk, warrior, sk, pal ... all will take less damage once the hits come rolling in. Being the “paper tank” doesn’t mean they can’t do the job. They can and they actually do well thanks to the snap aggro (they are 1 of 4 melee/hybrids that do this). Warriors do fine on aggro but lack the “on demand” part of it.

TLDR:

-Rogues aren’t tanks. They take hits surprisingly well and this is often overlooked, but having them do so over literally anyone else who CAN do it is a waste. Better to let the shaman tank and let the rogue pew pew.
-Rangers take more damage than any other melee. They have great aggro and are more than “good enough” to get the job done (eq ain’t hard). They are not a bad choice to tank if needed.

[Dezik]

Cool thanks all for the responses. Decided to roll with the monk as the versatility I think will make it more rewarding. Any have any recommendations on where to hunt and what gear to look for? This monk currently has some random gear but aside from epic, fungi and fbss nothing to write home about.

[kjs86z]

play both!

Sebilis OOC: "56 monk or 56 rogue lfg"

[jolanar]

The question is do you want to pull and sometimes tank, because you will be asked to do both as a monk.

If you want a chill experience play a rogue.