Greens sounds so pleasant

[Kanuvan]

Not every monk/necro being iskar

Groups in crushbone and unrest being a actual struggle with no level 20 fungi tunic rogues

Market going back to being amazing with spider silks/CB belts going like hot cakes

Full bronze/banded being your twink

Cant wait for real EQ1 99

[ErlickBachman]

Were you here for Blue 1999 in 2010? It was pretty amazing.

[Malik_Gynax]

Crushbone will be a struggle to find mobs alive, that's for sure. Dunno about a struggle to kill.

[Crede]

Those zones are already a struggle to find mobs. Can’t imagine on green.

Hope to see more people in kerra isle/runneye/permafrost/etc.

I wonder if kedges zem will be reset to what it was pre nerf. Hope to see a few full groups in here as well. Mermaids/seahorses will be good 40s xp

[GnomeCaptain]

I'll be doing quests in Stonebrunt.

[Saisu]

Not every monk/necro being iskar

You’re right, instead every monk will be human :).

[loramin]

I'll be doing quests in Stonebrunt.

Not for awhile you won't. Stonebrunt and Warrens aren't added until later.

[NegaStoat]

The largest turn-off for me involving Green is the return of hybrid shunning in pickup groups that we'll see all over again. People playing back in 1999 weren't immediately aware of the 40% increased exp penalty that was eaten by the group's experience division. On P1999, everyone knew and it was a real thing. If a group needed a tank or dps and no one else was available, sure, the SK or Ranger were grudgingly welcomed. If a group had rotating members due to the popularity of the location (Think Highpass orcs), you betcha that excuses were made as to why non hybrids were constantly invited in.

We're going to see that nonsense yet again. A halfling warrior is suddenly available and the Troll SK that's been waiting for 50 minutes is passed over due to this delivery of hairy feet goodness? Feels classic.

[rekreant]

The largest turn-off for me involving Green is the return of hybrid shunning in pickup groups that we'll see all over again. People playing back in 1999 weren't immediately aware of the 40% increased exp penalty that was eaten by the group's experience division. On P1999, everyone knew and it was a real thing. If a group needed a tank or dps and no one else was available, sure, the SK or Ranger were grudgingly welcomed. If a group had rotating members due to the popularity of the location (Think Highpass orcs), you betcha that excuses were made as to why non hybrids were constantly invited in.

We're going to see that nonsense yet again. A halfling warrior is suddenly available and the Troll SK that's been waiting for 50 minutes is passed over due to this delivery of hairy feet goodness? Feels classic.

Lol you have no idea. Not only will they discriminate based on that, they will also discriminate based on things like optimal race choice and at end game stat allocation. Most people wont take the dark elf warrior when there are a million ogres who cant be stunned.

[DMN]

Was actually quite awhile after release that the whole exp penalty being shared with the party becomae common knowledge, and shortly after it was realized int casters also had a penalty. It wasn't until early kunark that I noticed any sort of "hybrid-exclusion". One of verant's worst ideas ever.

[rekreant]

Was actually quite awhile after release that people found out the whole exp penalty being shared with the party, and shortly after it was realized int casters also had a penalty. It wasn't until early kunark that I noticed any sort of "hybrid-exclusion". One of verant's worst ideas ever.

They can make the server as accurate to reality classic as possible, but you cant take away peoples knowledge of the game today sadly hehe.

[Worry]

I missed classic on both Live and Blue. Not going to make that mistake a third time. Can't wait.

[GnomeCaptain]

Not for awhile you won't. Stonebrunt and Warrens aren't added until later.

Aha! Ok thank you for saying that.

I remember a long time ago going to Stonebrunt for the first time and being there with a bunch of other people. And some part of that memory said it was when it was first added.

Later I just convinced myself it was always there.

Thank you for correcting my faulty memories.

[loramin]

Aha! Ok thank you for saying that.

I remember a long time ago going to Stonebrunt for the first time and being there with a bunch of other people. And some part of that memory said it was when it was first added.

Later I just convinced myself it was always there.

Thank you for correcting my faulty memories.

NP. We can all blame Verant for slacking on those zones :mad:

[waffel]

They can just... remove the exp penalty? Sure, some dorks would bitch but they would ultimately play on the server.

[FatherSioux]

Hybrid shunning is bad for the game and should be removed at the start.

[Hibbs]

Not every monk/necro being iskar

Groups in crushbone and unrest being a actual struggle with no level 20 fungi tunic rogues

Market going back to being amazing with spider silks/CB belts going like hot cakes

Full bronze/banded being your twink

Cant wait for real EQ1 99

For a second there I thought you were describing <ALS>! sounds just like us.:D

[Fifield]

Hybrid shunning is bad for the game and should be removed at the start.

[DMN]

Hybrid shunning is bad for the game and should be removed at the start.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagree about it being bad, but it was indeed classic. Unfortunately for any would-be-hybrid players, it seems that the intent of this server is to recreate the "classic" progression as faithfully as possible,warts and all.

[Swish2]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagree about it being bad, but it was indeed classic. Unfortunately for any would-be-hybrid players, it seems that the intent of this server is to recreate the "classic" progression as faithfully as possible,warts and all.

Also remember though for a lot of people it's about the journey. Playing a troll SK with that XP penalty? You'll still get there ;)

I'm sure there'll be a bunch of min max halfling druids on day 1.

[Jimjam]

Also remember though for a lot of people it's about the journey. Playing a troll SK with that XP penalty? You'll still get there ;)

I'm sure there'll be a bunch of min max halfling druids on day 1.

Dr00ds confirmed classic.

[Osprey39]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagree about it being bad, but it was indeed classic. Unfortunately for any would-be-hybrid players, it seems that the intent of this server is to recreate the "classic" progression as faithfully as possible,warts and all.

I'm sorry, but that is just stupid. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It doesn't lessen the 'classic experience' to make it so certain classes won't be shunned for groups; not anymore than not having to stare at a spell book for thirty some levels does. They need to understand that while you can try to faithfully recreate the classic feel of the game, you can't put the internet knowledge genie back in the bottle. Back in the classic days, most people weren't aware of the hybrid xp penalty and very few people had even heard the term 'min/max'. It's different now and people's behaviors are different than they were back then.

Note: I understand the spellbook thing is a function of the client and can't be changed but they chose to use the Titanium client. They could have used the Velious client just as easily. I'm sure that client was still out there in people's hands and available. I know I still have my Luclin CDs kicking around in a box in the garage.

[Dithien]

I’m not sure how fun it’s going to be if the server has 3k people in classic. I don’t know if they would consider it but if the population was too high it would make sense to have 2 servers and eventually merge them.

I remember when Sony used to show server numbers and the Rathe had the highest but was around 2k during prime time. Whether that was classic, Kunark or Velious I can’t recall.

[Swish2]

I’m not sure how fun it’s going to be if the server has 3k people in classic. I don’t know if they would consider it but if the population was too high it would make sense to have 2 servers and eventually merge them.

I remember when Sony used to show server numbers and the Rathe had the highest but was around 2k during prime time. Whether that was classic, Kunark or Velious I can’t recall.

Nice way to maximize manastones/guises for everyone. It's an interesting idea, but will it pay off?

[loramin]

Greens population is going to be nuts initially, but it will almost certainly calm down.

After it does, if any server (Blue or Green) is hitting 3k or 4k when "calm" then I'm sure the staff will start considering opening up a new server (or adding instancing). It's just that that's a huge hassle and expense for them, and it's never been necessary in the project's 10 year history, so I imagine they're planning to wait until it's actually a problem before worrying ... and we should do the same.

[Dithien]

Nice way to maximize manastones/guises for everyone. It's an interesting idea, but will it pay off?

Yeah that would maximize those items although I still imagine they will be socked like crazy.

I was mostly thinking of 300+ people in Lower Guk.

[Swish2]

Honestly I wonder if we'll see Holgresh Elder Bead type queues again :p

[Dithien]

Greens population is going to be nuts initially, but it will almost certainly calm down.

After it does, if any server (Blue or Green) is hitting 3k or 4k when "calm" then I'm sure the staff will start considering opening up a new server (or adding instancing). It's just that that's a huge hassle and expense for them, and it's never been necessary in the project's 10 year history, so I imagine they're planning to wait until it's actually a problem before worrying ... and we should do the same.

Well as long as people aren’t quitting because it’s a miserable overcrowded experience that would be fine imo.

[YendorLootmonkey]

At 3k population in Classic, individual muddite spawns in Gorge of King Xorbb will be camped for XP.

[Fammaden]

I don't know where people are getting this 3k number that keeps getting tossed around from in the first place. I can't imagine there's 1k plus who will come back and stay, and blue would basically have to empty out which I don't see happening with all the time invested here.

If anything the population concern should be how much it splits blue or if one server or the other ends up too LOW pop.

[Swish2]

At 3k population in Classic, individual muddite spawns in Gorge of King Xorbb will be camped for XP.

I remember one double XP weekend it was so overcamped in popular areas between bards swarming, AOE groups, etc... that I went into Kedge with a group to do regular mobs and most of those camps were taken :s

[Hagglebaron]

Guk being so camped you can safely move through the entire upper and lower zones is pretty neat lol.

[mycoolrausch]

Was actually quite awhile after release that the whole exp penalty being shared with the party becomae common knowledge, and shortly after it was realized int casters also had a penalty. It wasn't until early kunark that I noticed any sort of "hybrid-exclusion". One of verant's worst ideas ever.

I wonder if it was a conscious design decision or just a consequence of their mechanics of XP allocation and they didn't really consider it that heavily. The latter wouldn't surprise me.

[Tethler]

I don't know where people are getting this 3k number that keeps getting tossed around from in the first place. I can't imagine there's 1k plus who will come back and stay, and blue would basically have to empty out which I don't see happening with all the time invested here.

If anything the population concern should be how much it splits blue or if one server or the other ends up too LOW pop.

Blue probably won't change much unless they ban playing on blue and green at the same time like you can currently do on blue and red. You know a ton of these guys will just play both. Socks come in pairs, sir. More than one can be pooped in.

[Kazik]

For a second there I thought you were describing <ALS>! sounds just like us.:D

Being carried is the road less traveled.

[Dithien]

I don't know where people are getting this 3k number that keeps getting tossed around from in the first place. I can't imagine there's 1k plus who will come back and stay, and blue would basically have to empty out which I don't see happening with all the time invested here.

If anything the population concern should be how much it splits blue or if one server or the other ends up too LOW pop.

I can only speak for myself but I played on Blue for 3 years and no longer play but I do intend to give Green a shot.

[azeth]

Hybrid shunning is bad for the game and should be removed at the start.

This is probably the only non-classic thing I'd agree with. But consider that Green is the fruition of Nilbog & Rogeans 10 year effort of recreating true classic EverQuest.

However, if there are FTE messages on Green or any of the quality of life things Blue has... then its already not perfectly classic.

[DMN]

I wonder if it was a conscious design decision or just a consequence of their mechanics of XP allocation and they didn't really consider it that heavily. The latter wouldn't surprise me.

The whole exp penalty system is wack from top to bottom. Druids/shamans get no exp penalty yet SKs, rangers, and paladins do? I'm guessing it went in early and nobody revisited it towards the end of bete and they were focused on other things.

[loramin]

The whole exp penalty system is wack from top to bottom. Druids/shamans get no exp penalty yet SKs, rangers, and paladins do? I'm guessing it went in early and nobody revisited it towards the end of bete and they were focused on other things.

If you could convince the staff that not only players, but the games developers didn't understand the XP penalties, then maybe you could convince them to make new (equally confusing but different) penalties on Green.

Hey, they did it with the ZEMs, there's precedent ;)

[DMN]

If you could convince the staff that not only players, but the games developers didn't understand the XP penalties, then maybe you could convince them to make new (equally confusing but different) penalties on Green.

Hey, they did it with the ZEMs, there's precedent ;)

They understood them when they initially implemented them, which I believe was extremely early in development. The "vision" originally was that these classes would essentially be somewhat more powerful than others, so they should have some penalty to offset it. It's straight out of dungeons and dragons: classes/races level at different rates, generally as a function of how powerful those characters can become. It was stuck in their brains,

So while they added the penalty at the outset, they never satisfied the other end of the equation, leaving a penalty with no noticeable bonus. Bards might be the only exception having an incredible power set of spell-like effects while still wearing plate. But they missed the mark on ever other hybrid.

[azeth]

It's like they took a face value look at Warriors versus Shadowknights/Paladins and said "These are warriors who can use magic, it should be more difficult to level them".

As if they didn't understand early on that they were comparing apples to oranges.

[Jimjam]

I like it. It creates a meta where warriors and rogues are more common than the mystical hybrids.

[kotton05]

Am I the only one cringing

[PieOats]

Am I the only one cringing

me too, pal. #me too

[HippoNipple]

It's like they took a face value look at Warriors versus Shadowknights/Paladins and said "These are warriors who can use magic, it should be more difficult to level them".

As if they didn't understand early on that they were comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not sure on this but I think the idea of hybrids needing more exp dates back to D&D games. I think the point of hybrid getting an exp penalty in RPGs is that they should technically shine in late game and be the most powerful characters. In a MMORPG that doesn't really work and things are instead based on roles and balance.

The real reason I'm in this thread now. What the hell is this Green server going to be about? Is there a definitive statement from Devs on what the server rules will be? Is there any talk of a new PvP server now that we know there isn't this secret daybreak agreement keeping the server from opening new servers?

[NegaStoat]

We know for certain that Blue P1999 won't be scrubbed. Well, 98%+ certain it won't happen due to promises made back at the server's launch. The big thing that's up in the air is if Green's character base will be dumped into Blue at the end of it's Velious run which was originally talked about, or if a new server for dumping Green accounts will happen and Green will recycle back into classic for a new run.

Until we know that part, it's tough to call how much Green will impact the P1999 project.

[Fammaden]

The real reason I'm in this thread now. What the hell is this Green server going to be about? Is there a definitive statement from Devs on what the server rules will be? Is there any talk of a new PvP server now that we know there isn't this secret daybreak agreement keeping the server from opening new servers?

Word is from people who were at the convention, that the rest of the chardok patch is coming very soon and they will announce more info around the same time.

Why would they open another PvP server when the one we have is deserted?

[Zuranthium]

This is probably the only non-classic thing I'd agree with. But consider that Green is the fruition of Nilbog & Rogeans 10 year effort of recreating true classic EverQuest.

"True classic EverQuest" will never, ever happen by trying to implement the exact coding from back then. People play the game completely different; they know how to abuse all the mechanics and exactly where everything drops and how the NPC's behave.

The only way to get "True classic EverQuest" back is to change the game code itself, so that players need to discover things again and will approach their characters as if they were playing D&D, as was intended with EQ.

[Yttrium]

The grass is always greener...

[Mead]

People think the experience is going to be better lol. It's going to be even worse than blue. Less zones to spread 1500 people over. The same raid antics. The same economy minus some duped plat. The same GM decisions. The same people crying. And the little guys are going to get even less loot than they're getting now because a lot of old neckbeards will be back to play, and the current ones are going to play even harder. The fresh start will be fun, but don't get it twisted.

Hope this helps.

[Osprey39]

This is probably the only non-classic thing I'd agree with. But consider that Green is the fruition of Nilbog & Rogeans 10 year effort of recreating true classic EverQuest.

However, if there are FTE messages on Green or any of the quality of life things Blue has... then its already not perfectly classic.

There's no spellbook that you're forced to stare at and no nightblind humans by default. You have the ability to customize your UI to make it FAR more user friendly than the Classic UI was. There's plenty that isn't Classic without even getting into FTE messages and rooted dragons.

I agree with what Loramin said. They shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good. XP penalties for hybrids were a horrible idea back in the day and they are an even worse idea now when people know about them and will actively shun race/classes that have them. There's nothing good about them and putting them in just because the original game had them when you know it's going to cause issues is very, very short sighted.

[loramin]

There's no spellbook that you're forced to stare at and no nightblind humans by default. You have the ability to customize your UI to make it FAR more user friendly than the Classic UI was. There's plenty that isn't Classic without even getting into FTE messages and rooted dragons.

I agree with what Loramin said. They shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good. XP penalties for hybrids were a horrible idea back in the day and they are an even worse idea now when people know about them and will actively shun race/classes that have them. There's nothing good about them and putting them in just because the original game had them when you know it's going to cause issues is very, very short sighted.

It's important to understand what this project is and is not. Very importantly, it is not in any way an attempt to make a "good" game; it's an attempt recreate, as precisely as possible, an old game ... for good or for ill:

I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.

For all it's flaws, including hybrid XP penalties, there was something magical about classic EQ. The people behind Project 1999 want to re-create that magic, and they're not going to let anyone's opinion of "well wouldn't classic have been better if ...." change their mind. So I would be amazed if hybrid XP penalties were removed any earlier than they were in the classic timeline.

But there is some good news though:

There's no spellbook that you're forced to stare at and no nightblind humans by default.

Spellbook staring will be back on Green (up until the point in the timeline when it was removed; we just don't see it on Blue because Blue past that point already). And as for night blindness, I don't know about anyone else, but my gamma slider stopped working for me months ago. I assumed it was a staff night blindness fix, but maybe I just got a bug that happens to enforce classic night blindness as a side effect?

[Osprey39]

Spellbook staring will be back on Green (up until the point in the timeline when it was removed; we just don't see it on Blue because Blue past that point already). And as for night blindness, I don't know about anyone else, but my gamma slider stopped working for me months ago. I assumed it was a staff night blindness fix, but maybe I just got a bug that happens to enforce classic night blindness as a side effect?

I've never messed with my gamma and I have a human and an erudite that can see at night. Not as good as a race with infra/ultravision but far from blind like it used to be. My understanding is that is a function of the Titanium client.

[Muggens]

It's important to understand what this project is and is not. Very importantly, it is not in any way an attempt to make a "good" game; it's an attempt recreate, as precisely as possible, an old game ... for good or for ill:



For all it's flaws, including hybrid XP penalties, there was something magical about classic EQ. The people behind Project 1999 want to re-create that magic, and they're not going to let anyone's opinion of "well wouldn't classic have been better if ...." change their mind. So I would be amazed if hybrid XP penalties were removed any earlier than they were in the classic timeline.

But there is some good news though:



Spellbook staring will be back on Green (up until the point in the timeline when it was removed; we just don't see it on Blue because Blue past that point already). And as for night blindness, I don't know about anyone else, but my gamma slider stopped working for me months ago. I assumed it was a staff night blindness fix, but maybe I just got a bug that happens to enforce classic night blindness as a side effect?

Go to the EQ folder, go to eqclient.ini

Go down to Gamma. Its set at 8(or around there). Change it from 8 to 4(or lower). Save it

[Zuranthium]

It's important to understand what this project is and is not. Very importantly, it is not in any way an attempt to make a "good" game; it's an attempt recreate, as precisely as possible, an old game.

For all it's flaws, including hybrid XP penalties, there was something magical about classic EQ. The people behind Project 1999 want to re-create that magic.

You contradict yourself. It's impossible to "re-create that magic" by recreating the old game code only. Can only ever be one or the other, not both at the same time. It's like telling someone you have a secret, and then finally revealing the secret after much tantalization, and then later on trying to tell them the secret again and expecting the person to be surprised again. Doesn't work.

The point of classic EQ is that it was supposed to be a large-scale, live-action, open-ended Dungeons & Dragons game. Players were meant to adventure, to discover things, and to roleplay. There's virtually no adventure and discovery left when everything can already be looked up on a wiki, when nothing ever changes, and when the players have already done it. The idea behind Everquest was limited by means of sustainable execution, because the developers didn't understand how to shape what they had in order to maintain the original game vision. The inherent problems with the game were "okay" in the early days simply because people didn't know any better. They were playing an entirely new genre, it was a unique gaming experience.

You've made an incorrect assumption about "what Project1999 is" to begin with. They've never said there will be no custom changes. There are in fact already custom changes in place. Granted, they want to have a working source code of the game that's as accurate as possible, but that doesn't mean all of their servers must be exact classic coding only.

If the devs of p99 truly do want to "re-create the magic", then they are going to need custom changes that make the gameplay experience of EQ in 2019 similar to what it was in 1999. That means the playerbase needs to actually be surprised by Norrath again, to not know exactly what they will find in any zone or how to min/max literally everything, and will need to learn new things as they go. It means people should want to play specific classes because of how "cool" that gameplay experience seems to them, rather than "I'm going to make a Cleric because I know busted Complete Heal is", or "I'm going to make a Monk because I know busted their stats are with expansion gear". Anything else is NOT Classic Everquest.

[HippoNipple]

Word is from people who were at the convention, that the rest of the chardok patch is coming very soon and they will announce more info around the same time.

Why would they open another PvP server when the one we have is deserted?

That is the nature of EQ PVP, it gets very stale and dies with no new progression or fresh restarts. It's not that there isn't interest in EQ PvP. Once 1 guild wins with no new expansions on the horizon people quit. PvP servers work better with a 1-2 year time frame.

[HippoNipple]

Also zuranthium, they aren't trying to replicate the experience every person had with eq by making custom rules to make up for the fact that you have done it already. They are simply trying to recreate the game as it was without letting opinions, even their own, change the original vision.

I don't know the end game but there is merit in making the game exactly as it was. Blizzard is putting in work to make it happen with WoW. Maybe there is a reason they dont share the code. Maybe they will sell it to Daybreak some day.

[Zuranthium]

They are simply trying to recreate the game as it was without letting opinions, even their own, change the original vision.

The original vision of the game does not equate to the original game code. Everquest was constantly changing. It changed in response to the players and the developer's own understanding of mechanics. It was always meant to change in relation to what the players were doing. Everquest would have been a lot more dynamic if the developers were capable of making it so (they specifically said they didn't like how people ended up constantly sitting in one room of a dungeon, for example), but they lacked the awareness and/or means of knowing how to code the game to best fulfill their vision.

That initial game code back from the early days was merely the developer's attempt at bringing their vision to life. It doesn't mean they were entirely successful in every regard, much less in relation to what players are doing these days. Again, the entire point of "Everquest" is that it is supposed to be fluid and a real adventure - a living, breathing world.

[Tethler]

These people trying to argue for/against things regarding their state of classicness is so tedious. The server staff doesn't need to convince people to agree with their viewpoint. The server staff will do whatever they like to the server, whether anyone agrees or not.

To say X should or should not be here because Y is or is not present will not change anything. They are attempting to re-create their vision of classic, not yours.

Our only choice here is: Play on P99? Y/N

If you have a bug to report or if you have in-era evidence that something should be different, post it in the bug forums. From there, it's up to them if they want to make changes. Anything beyond that is a literal waste of time.

[Danth]

Spellbook staring will be back on Green (up until the point in the timeline when it was removed; we just don't see it on Blue because Blue past that point already). And as for night blindness, I don't know about anyone else, but my gamma slider stopped working for me months ago. I assumed it was a staff night blindness fix, but maybe I just got a bug that happens to enforce classic night blindness as a side effect?

You're incorrect here. Spellbook staring was never removed during the era P99 represents. Casters had to look at the spellbook to meditate until level 35. We don't have it on P99 solely because of client limitations. One developer suggested implementing a blind effect when a player meditates, but that's non-classic itself since it'd block both the spellbook and the chat window, which spellbook meditating certainly did not.

Night blindness is not strictly related to the gamma slider. The Titanium client has a built-in feature that brightens outdoor zones at night. This is immediately apparent inside dark indoor zones such as parts of Befallen where the effect is not present--they're pitch black without a lightsource, as expected. Other classic night-vision effects such as infravision and ultravision do not have their classic appearance, either. Look up old screenshots and you'll see what I mean, ultravision tinted the world purplish-blue and infravision caused mobs to look distinctly reddish.

Basically both of the above issues are client-related, and not non-classic by choice. The same applies to some other longstanding issues, like the nonfunctional stamina bar (they've tried and failed to get that working several times over the years, it simply won't work on this client) and a few other problems. Some other features are left non-classic by choice for various reasons, like item linking, third-person mousewheel scrolling, and the ability to keep multiple chat windows open. All of those have been reported as fixable at some point or another but remain in-place because the devs like having those things. Even they have their limits when it comes to pure classic.

As an aside, human characters still don't start with a candle.

Danth

[DMN]

These people trying to argue for/against things regarding their state of classicness is so tedious. The server staff doesn't need to convince people to agree with their viewpoint. The server staff will do whatever they like to the server, whether anyone agrees or not.


Of course the staff is going to decide what gets put in or not, but that doesn't mean they are not amenable, especially if it's a good suggestion and/or can reduce staff intervention. And the only way to make the suggestion is to post here (or perhaps in discord or something). Not talking about would be the dumb thing.

[NegaStoat]

The big thing to keep in mind is that if the P1999 staff goes with their original plan or something like it, the server will launch with classic, then enter kunark and velious according to the correct time frame of patch releases. And then at the end it's flushed and reset. And if they go with that still, asking the player base to accept that for 2/3's of the server's life that hybrid experience penalty will be present seems like a bit much. It's a hell of a lot to ask, really. If I were a betting man I'd bet that several changes will happen to keep the server fair for working within the frame of the patch cycle with the ending reset.

[Tethler]

Of course the staff is going to decide what gets put in or not, but that doesn't mean they are not amenable, especially if it's a good suggestion and/or can reduce staff intervention. And the only way to make the suggestion is to post here (or perhaps in discord or something). Not talking about would be the dumb thing.

The next line in my quote that you did not include is what I was referring to. People that make arguements like: "Dragons are rooted, so it's already not classic. You may as well just add in the Bazaar."

Not that I've seen that specific arguement, but that line of reasoning will go nowhere, and is as pointless as the subjective comments about "the original intent of Everquest", as if any of these people can speak on behalf of EQ devs from 20 years ago.

[Osprey39]

The next line in my quote that you did not include is what I was referring to. People that make arguements like: "Dragons are rooted, so it's already not classic. You may as well just add in the Bazaar."

Not that I've seen that specific arguement, but that line of reasoning will go nowhere, and is as pointless as the subjective comments about "the original intent of Everquest", as if any of these people can speak on behalf of EQ devs from 20 years ago.

That's a strawman argument. Even according to your own observations, nobody has suggested something like that. It's a also quite a leap from that to asking that something like race/class xp penalties, that were a demonstrably horrible idea that even Verant realized after a certain point, be removed.

[Worry]

Why would anyone be against a few non-classic changes? The game is far from perfect and much like the rooting of the Dragons some changes drastically help the server as a whole.

They could make small changes for the next 10 years and still not ruin the classic feel imo because the original game is that flawed. You could argue that ruins some of the charm of it, but it really depends on what you change and I really don't think Nilbog/Rogean (who seem to be staunchly against Luclin because of how goofy they perceive it to be) would want to add in changes that hurt the feel of the game.

They've worked on this for over 10 years.

[Osprey39]

Why would anyone be against a few non-classic changes? The game is far from perfect and much like the rooting of the Dragons some changes drastically help the server as a whole.

They could make small changes for the next 10 years and still not ruin the classic feel imo because the original game is that flawed. You could argue that ruins some of the charm of it, but it really depends on what you change and I really don't think Nilbog/Rogean (who seem to be staunchly against Luclin because of how goofy they perceive it to be) would want to add in changes that hurt the feel of the game.

They've worked on this for over 10 years.

I ask myself the same question. I think it boils down to what is classic Everquest to you? I'm sure it's different to everyone but a few things come to mind for me right away:


Meaningful death penalties
Non-trivial travel making the world seem larger
No progression by simply doing quests in quest hubs
Slower progression that makes progress feel earned
Grouping encouraged to overcome challenges
Social interaction and relationships formed via grouping with others


I could go on and on but that last one is pretty important to me because to me it's the essence of what made this game special. You actually interacted with other players and built friendships as opposed to modern MMOs where people are randomly thrown into groups and often don't even say "hi" at the start of a dungeon that they will race through as fast as possible to get the loot box at the end. EQ is just different in that aspect and there's nothing out there in modern MMOs like it. That is why I am staunchly against leaving in the hybrid xp penalties that are punitive and encourage people to not interact with someone just because they chose to play a pally instead of a warrior.

[elwing]

You missed the tradeskill and "active" bazaar...

[HippoNipple]

The original vision of the game does not equate to the original game code. Everquest was constantly changing. It changed in response to the players and the developer's own understanding of mechanics. It was always meant to change in relation to what the players were doing. Everquest would have been a lot more dynamic if the developers were capable of making it so (they specifically said they didn't like how people ended up constantly sitting in one room of a dungeon, for example), but they lacked the awareness and/or means of knowing how to code the game to best fulfill their vision.

That initial game code back from the early days was merely the developer's attempt at bringing their vision to life. It doesn't mean they were entirely successful in every regard, much less in relation to what players are doing these days. Again, the entire point of "Everquest" is that it is supposed to be fluid and a real adventure - a living, breathing world.

You are getting the spirit of what EQ was meant to be mixed up with what EQ actually was. This project is not to interpret what they think the vision was and adapt to that, it is simply to recreate what it was.

Different goals, they are simply trying to recreate the code. Like I said, there might be some monetary benefit from getting it done. They have been working on it for 10 years, I hope they get something out of it.

[Zuranthium]

You are getting the spirit of what EQ was meant to be mixed up with what EQ actually was. This project is not to interpret what they think the vision was and adapt to that, it is simply to recreate what it was.

You're wrong on both points, LOL. This project can certainly be an attempt to interpret what the vision of EQ was, and create a server for that purpose. There's nothing that says the devs wouldn't be interested in having that kind of server, in addition to running the "museum" kind of server too. Their first priority was replicating the exact classic code, but that doesn't mean it needs to end there.

It's not even just about what EQ was "meant" to be though, rather how it actually played in 1999. If the game doesn't play like it did in 1999, then it is NOT "classic Everquest". Copying the exact code from 1999 does not create a game that plays the same, since the players already know everything. It's like the difference between playing Poker when you can't see your opponent's hand, vs playing Poker when you can see their hand. It's not the same game.

For example, back in 1999, the developers decided that kiting monsters around to death with DoT's was too overpowered. So they put in a nerf to DoT's that made them do 33% less damage whenever the monster is moving. This is an example of how the game was changed in response to what the players were doing. These days in 2019, we have players doing wayyyy more abusive things with game knowledge/mechanics than just kiting with DoT's. If we were to transport the current playerbase to 1999, then the developers would have instituted a multitude of game changes in response to what players are doing these days, in order to improve the gameplay equilibrium.

That is the reality of how Classic EQ actually played out. The game code was constantly changing in order to suit the vision of what the gameplay should be. If we want to have a game that's going to have a similar gameplay feel to Classic EQ, then many changes are needed to make it happen. Sure, there are some things that can never be brought back (players are now familiar with the general layout of the game world for example, so we aren't going to get lost as much as we did back then), but there are plenty of other game facets that be altered in order to create a more similar gameplay to what Classic EQ was.

From my point of view though, if you are going to put the effort in to change the game code to re-create the Classic EQ experience, then you might as well go ahead and make further improvements at the same time. Some of these things are bound to be closely related anyway. For example, in Classic EQ, tons of people played on the Qeynos side of the world; that was an essential part of what made Norrath feel alive. These days, if the game code remains the same, people won't. They realize there are "better" places to go. Logically, the Qeynos side of the world should be made more attractive to the playerbase, which would not only be better for the game itself AND serve what it was envisioned as (Qeynos being a major area with lots of traffic through it), but would also accurately reflect what the 1999 experience actually was.

[Justinian]

If you could convince the staff that not only players, but the games developers didn't understand the XP penalties

I'd say this is self evident, considering they stated that it was supposed to be Humans who got the exp bonus, but Brad and his idiots were too busy doing coke to check it and ended up giving it to halfings instead.

[Fammaden]

I'd say this is self evident, considering they stated that it was supposed to be Humans who got the exp bonus

Its been self evident for the better part of two decades. What needs convincing is that there's no good reason to blindly follow the original timetable for nerfs and fixes. Following the timetable for content releases is what should be important, not being blindly linked to the original team's timeframe for rectifying problems.

If we wanted to go full HAM on this timeline then lots of shit should start out buggy and broken. Anyone remember the constant little fixes like doors and NPC text in the old patch notes? No one wants broken buggy quests and environments in the name of blind adherence to classic.

So why do we need unintentionally powerful and/or drama inducing items (guise/MS/dropped jboots) in for months? Why the completely absurd XP penalties that didn't get removed for nearly two years? These could be included in retroactive fixes of mistakes that should have never gone live in the first place, rather than deciding they are somehow crucial for P99 to recreate for some period of time illogically linked to how long they lasted way back when.

but Brad and his idiots were too busy doing coke to check it and ended up giving it to halfings instead.

This half of your post is totally unnecessary and is possibly detrimental to staff taking your arguments as serious topics to consider. Super edgy and eyecatching though, so if that's whats important to you then mission accomplished.

[Jibartik]

Has anyone said that bards will be monopolizing every single zone for like 3 weeks?

Like you can bard kite from level 1 in this game in litearlly every starting and teen leveling zone...

Even if we're allowed to pick off mobs from their pulls, that just means a bard will pull them to the far corner of the zone, increasing the time exponentially that the mobs are not in the newbie areas, or spawning at all.

How is this going to be handled?

I wonder... and am very concerned about how un-fun its going to be with 6 bards in every zone powerlevling guild after guild after guild member.

[NegaStoat]

The bard solution two shot

Druids - http://wiki.project1999.com/Sunbeam
Necromancers - http://wiki.project1999.com/Feign_Death

70% of the time it works 100% of the time. But in all seriousness I think we're under estimating the full list of issues the server staff is already aware of that will be faced with a new server launch. Bards will be dealt with.

[Muggens]

In with support for Zuranthiums posts, good stuff, solemnly agree.


As a side note, people railing on the Holiness that is Brad McQuaid(ie Calling him a cokehead) should be instabanned

[Squire]

Has anyone said that bards will be monopolizing every single zone for like 3 weeks?

Like you can bard kite from level 1 in this game in litearlly every starting and teen leveling zone...

Even if we're allowed to pick off mobs from their pulls, that just means a bard will pull them to the far corner of the zone, increasing the time exponentially that the mobs are not in the newbie areas, or spawning at all.

How is this going to be handled?

I wonder... and am very concerned about how un-fun its going to be with 6 bards in every zone powerlevling guild after guild after guild member.

I remember how that worked on red99's launch.

Root the bard. Done. (That felt really satisfying btw) IDK what bluebies (greenies?) can do.

[Jibartik]

The bard solution two shot

Druids - http://wiki.project1999.com/Sunbeam
Necromancers - http://wiki.project1999.com/Feign_Death

70% of the time it works 100% of the time. But in all seriousness I think we're under estimating the full list of issues the server staff is already aware of that will be faced with a new server launch. Bards will be dealt with.

Well, if p99 bards exist on green99 then a druid nor a necromancer will even be able to get to the level they are able to cast either of those spells. (An exaggeration but not that much of one I'm afraid)

Zone disruption is one thing, so 24 druids have not much to worry about, but 9 bards kiting 6 mobs each? Thats legal and that's an entire noobie zone with no mobs, consistently (my guess).

That's qhills, karanas, OASIS lol there is no zone that is going to be safe :p MAYBE you can level a necro to 6 on this shit show server thats going to be 99% raiding bards PLing entire guilds, but 24? HAH thats going to take 6 months, untnil the guilds are all level 50

I had a bard kiting along the same level as me not long ago starting from level 1 for fun, and I felt the impact I had basically yeiled zones to him, there no wisps, no decaying skellies, there were no gnolls, and thats on Blue99 at a random time of year, imagine green! Its going to be such a shit show lol

[DMN]

They might as well bite the bullet and change bard AoE to capping at 4 already. Server/internet/Pc hardware/latency never allowed swarm kiting back in classic. You'd die 9 out of 10 times trying it in the off hours. 10 out 10 if you tried it during prime time hours.

[Jibartik]

They might as well bite the bullet and change bard AoE to capping at 4 already. Server/internet/Pc hardware/latency never allowed swarm kiting back in classic. You'd die 9 out of 10 times trying it in the off hours. 10 out 10 if you tried it during prime time hours.

Honestly IMO this is the right choice, its just kind of absurd really. I mean I hate changing classic rules so if they dont do this thats fine, but if it were my choice I just feel like its silly to have bards be so broken the way they are.

If they dont do anything like this, Im sure they will for the next recycle server because this is going ot be a shit show lol

RE: the FD and Sunbeam, honestly I dont even think this is a viable strat to try to pester them to leave, at these low levels you can get hit a TON while aoe kiting and be fine. Even well into the teens, youd have to really work hard to stop a bard on Pve everquest low levels.

I cant come up with any ideas! Im sure there are more, we need them, lay em out!

At first I thought, well I'll just pull mobs off their kite, but as I said when this happened to me on blue99 I felt taht was futile, if the bard has the mobs down to 50% that means you're just to all have to wait it out cus you cant KS any of those mobs anymore, it did seem like every time I found him finally, thats how much HP the mobs would have... and even if we're picking from their kites, that will just encourage them to run to the far corners of kelthin lol, leaving the mobs unharmed for 10s to 20s of minuets before they even start damaging them, the zones are gonna be empty

lol I cant wait to see this drama.

[Osprey39]

Has anyone said that bards will be monopolizing every single zone for like 3 weeks?

Like you can bard kite from level 1 in this game in litearlly every starting and teen leveling zone...

Even if we're allowed to pick off mobs from their pulls, that just means a bard will pull them to the far corner of the zone, increasing the time exponentially that the mobs are not in the newbie areas, or spawning at all.

How is this going to be handled?

I wonder... and am very concerned about how un-fun its going to be with 6 bards in every zone powerlevling guild after guild after guild member.

I'm gonna admit I've only played a bard to level 8 but I know a couple of things don't jibe with what you're saying. First off, bards don't even get their PBAE dot until level 2 so they aren't going to be starting that at level 1. Selo's doesn't come until 5 and it's kind of hard to kite without any run buff. Finally, that dot does shit damage so I don't think they are going to be powerleveling anybody until they get high enough level that they get the PBAE snare that lets them hold agro on stuff while their out of group buddies kill the mobs danger free.

I think you're kind of overblowing this. Feel free to correct me and tell me where I'm wrong but I just don't think bard kiting is going to be nearly as bad as you seem to think it is.

[DMN]

Well, with a couple hours of bard under your belt and as a 2 month veteran of p99, I'm sure your grasp of the issue is adequate to come to some very strong conclusions/predictions.

Not.

Certainly entitled to your opinion and all, but I'm pretty sure bards are going to be a problem on green.

The rule about being able to pull from bards kiting more than 4 mobs is virtually meaningless. On green, without outside help, only druids/shamans/bards will realistically be able to peel stuff off from a bard who who isn't dumb. And even to peel them off you have to find them first.

[Tethler]

That's a strawman argument. Even according to your own observations, nobody has suggested something like that.

Go browse some more threads on these forums. I haven't seen that exact arguement (as I stated), but I most certainly have seen arguements using that line of reasoning.

The server already has non-classic X, so we may as well just add non-classic Y.

[Osprey39]

Well, with a couple hours of bard under your belt and as a 2 month veteran of p99, I'm sure your grasp of the issue is adequate to come to some very strong conclusions/predictions.

Not.

Certainly entitled to your opinion and all, but I'm pretty sure bards are going to be a problem on green.

The rule about being able to pull from bards kiting more than 4 mobs is virtually meaningless. On green, without outside help, only druids/shamans/bards will realistically be able to peel stuff off from a bard who who isn't dumb. And even to peel them off you have to find them first.

Look, I admitted I don't know much about the class and yeah, I've only been on p99 for a short time but I have played a fair amount of EQ over the years. I'd be happy to listen to those that do know more about bards than I do. Your reply was kind of a veiled insult but I'll have the conversation with you anyway if you're willing to share your knowledge.

I made 3 points that you did not refute in this reply so please do so know because I'm genuinely interested in knowing how bards will overcome these 3 things and get out ahead of the crowd in leveling:


Bards don't get their PBAE DoT spell until level 2
Bards don't get Selo's until level 5
Even once they have their PBAE DoT, it does 3 points per tick which is barely above mob health regen rate


I'm not being flippant here, I'd really like to know how bards are going to overcome those three things and outpace everyone else in leveling. For at least one level, bards will be whacking away with their short sword just like everyone else.

When they get that PBAE DoT at level 2, it doesn't get much better for them. It's just a minor damage add at that point because the damage it does sucks. You still can't really kite with it until you get Selo's at level 5. I watched one bard recently trying to mass kite fire beetles in the Qeynos newbie yard with the DoT and no Selo's. It did not end well for them.

What I have trouble seeing is this: If kiting with that PBAE DoT is such a powerful tactic, how come I don't see more of it on Blue right now? My highest level characters here are in the 20s so I've seen plenty of low level bards xping. I've only seen bards successfully pulling mass groups of mobs twice and both times it was in NK where there is lots of wide open space for them to do it in and plenty of social mobs that would join in the chase just by dragging mobs over them.

So please, change my mind. Tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just dismiss what I said by pointing out my lack of time on a bard. Explain to me how bards are going to get out in front of the crowd in xping when they can't even really kite effectively until level 5. By the way, by the time level 5 rolls around, full, balanced groups are going to be able to go into places like CB and BB and xp with better ZEMs and I guarantee there won't be any bards swarm kiting in places like that.

[DMN]

I didn't answer those points because I not only didn't make those initial claims, thus had no reason to address them, but I also realized he was exaggerating for effect.


Bard kiting is less of problem on blue for a couple reasons. First, is that there are so many large zones available now with kunark and velious out that they have less of an impact. That's not going to be the case on green. Second,anyone who wanted to play a bard and swarm kites is already close to level 60 or at level 60, so you aren't going to see them swarming.

Bard kiting was so problematical on blue that they already nerfed it once and even had to cook up special rules regarding it. This problematical nature is going to be magnified several times over on green.

[Osprey39]

I didn't answer those points because I not only didn't make those initial claims, thus had no reason to address them, but I also realized he was exaggerating for effect.


Bard kiting is less of problem on blue for a couple reasons. First, is that there are so many large zones available now with kunark and velious out that they have less of an impact. That's not going to be the case on green. Second,anyone who wanted to play a bard and swarm kites is already close to level 60 or at level 60, so you aren't going to see them swarming.

Bard kiting was so problematical on blue that they already nerfed it once and even had to cook up special rules regarding it. This problematical nature is going to be magnified several times over on green.

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

[DMN]

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

Guild feeds a bard exp to level them up quickly so they can start to effectively swarm kite as fast as possible. Get your second PBAOE in your teens and then dominate the zones after that with swarming. That's what I assume he's referring to.

[Jibartik]

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

this guy was level four... its going to be the most insane shit show just wait.

https://i.imgur.com/x3dmr7y.png

[Keza]

On one hand we have people saying there needs to be multiple servers because there isn't enough mobs.

On another we have people complaining about how bards will take all the mobs.

How can the bards take the mobs if there is so many people that there are no mobs to take? While I don't agree that we need multiple servers, their logic is sound in that there won't be any mobs to spare and therefor there will be nothing for bards to monopolize. You're going to be running around desperate to find a single mob to kill just like the launch of every MMO ever. Don't let the delusional people fool you into thinking otherwise and don't let them persuade you into thinking that shouldn't be the case. If people were as knowledgeable in classic EQ about class imbalances, ZEM etc the game would have been garbage as, let's be honest, it's horribly imbalanced and has a lot of design flaws.

As for the OP's comment.. I'm not quite as interested in the only zones that are popularized on blue being popularized on green (without twinks) as I am zones that no one ever goes to, but both are pretty excitig for someone wanting to relive classic EQ.

[DMN]

On one hand we have people saying there needs to be multiple servers because there isn't enough mobs.

On another we have people complaining about how bards will take all the mobs.

How can the bards take the mobs if there is so many people that there are no mobs to take?

Pretty easy because a bard "takes" a mob in a couple seconds, everyone else takes 20-50 times longer to take a mob. Bard has tracking, bard has the fastest movment speed in the game. The bard can keep taking and rounding shit up. While this is occurring the mobs the bard has taken are not respawning. Unlike when a non bard takes a mob, which will immediately start a timer for a respawn. This has an incredible stiffing effect for anyone trying to exp in that zone.

[Fammaden]

Bards aren't going to be monopolizing every zone for every level range simultaneously. Even in this worst case scenario being presented of guilds powerleveling each other they would be done with gfay and qhills and shit in fairly short order, and the actual dungeons will be a different beast than some outdoor field.

Plus this all still assumes that green is going to be orders of magnitude more popular than blue for more than the first few weeks which I'm not at all convinced will be the case.

[Tethler]

Bards aren't going to be monopolizing every zone for every level range simultaneously. Even in this worst case scenario being presented of guilds powerleveling each other they would be done with gfay and qhills and shit in fairly short order, and the actual dungeons will be a different beast than some outdoor field.

Plus this all still assumes that green is going to be orders of magnitude more popular than blue for more than the first few weeks which I'm not at all convinced will be the case.

Even if the population of green is half that of blue, every person on green will be in the same few low level zones, rather than spread across the world. Even a few people doing this could cause significant disruption.

[Osprey39]

Even if the population of green is half that of blue, every person on green will be in the same few low level zones, rather than spread across the world. Even a few people doing this could cause significant disruption.

I remain skeptical that it's going to be an issue right away. That pic Jibartik posted of the guy that is supposedly level 4? If he is indeed level 4, he's got SoW on or there is no way he would be that far ahead of those mobs. DMN mentioned bards having tracking but they don't get that until level 35 so it's not really relevant to the newbie yards.

Time will tell I suppose but my guess is bards are going to be standing around waiting to whack stuff with their guild issued short sword just like everyone else and by the time they get Selo's, everyone will be heading off to their favorite newbie dungeons where bard kiting isn't an issue.

[Jibartik]

I remain skeptical that it's going to be an issue right away. That pic Jibartik posted of the guy that is supposedly level 4? If he is indeed level 4, he's got SoW on or there is no way he would be that far ahead of those mobs. DMN mentioned bards having tracking but they don't get that until level 35 so it's not really relevant to the newbie yards.

Time will tell I suppose but my guess is bards are going to be standing around waiting to whack stuff with their guild issued short sword just like everyone else and by the time they get Selo's, everyone will be heading off to their favorite newbie dungeons where bard kiting isn't an issue.

holup its one thing to disagree that bards are going to be a problem on green99 but to try to argue that you cannot monopolize zones from level 2 with a bard is just flat out casual of you: https://youtu.be/_RGSdtyAifU

If you look at the guides https://wiki.project1999.com/Treasure_Hunting_Guide nearly every zone noobs can use to level, quest and make some coin can be easily controlled by 1 or 2 bards

Im not saying it will happen, but it will happen to many people that think they're going to have a night of fun and adventure on green99 after a long day at work.

[Tethler]

I remain skeptical that it's going to be an issue right away. That pic Jibartik posted of the guy that is supposedly level 4? If he is indeed level 4, he's got SoW on or there is no way he would be that far ahead of those mobs. DMN mentioned bards having tracking but they don't get that until level 35 so it's not really relevant to the newbie yards.

Time will tell I suppose but my guess is bards are going to be standing around waiting to whack stuff with their guild issued short sword just like everyone else and by the time they get Selo's, everyone will be heading off to their favorite newbie dungeons where bard kiting isn't an issue.

You don't need sow to bard swarm. Strafe running will keep you far enough ahead.

[Jibartik]

Btw its worth mentioning that a red flag for me is that, any idiot can kite with a bard from level 2-19 it requires like no skill at all so that means like maybe there are going to be like 500 people trying this on a 3k person server?

Its going to be hilarious.

[Jibartik]

Also a bard can aoe kite all of blackburrow so say goodbye to your favorite dungeon idea, and CB lol and pretty much any classic zone lol

[Jibartik]

I aoe'd 3 bandit camps for sashes when I first came to this server in the karanas, that could usually keep 3 separate groups of 6 people in classic busy back when I first came to this server, after not playing for like 10 years, I just watched like 1 youtube video. when casters would spawn, id kite them to the guards, I guess I could pass some of those scraps onto the noobs that sit and wait for me to kill every bandit in the karanas lel

We're doomed.

[DMN]

Certainly going to need to do something about it. Should have already done something about it frankly. It's not classic, it's a zone disruption, it's going to cause petitions. Three good reasons to fix it, none to keep it.

[Jibartik]

I could be totally wrong it could just be a cluster eff of rusty weapons but I highly doubt after 7 years we're going to come back to the first green99 where casuals are going to get to see any action for any determinable amount of time with a class as powerful as a bard controlled by a pixel hungry p99er.

[DMN]

I could be totally wrong it could just be a cluster eff of rusty weapons but I highly doubt after 7 years we're going to come back to the first green99 where casuals are going to get to see any action for any determinable amount of time with a class as powerful as a bard controlled by a pixel hungry p99er.

Obviously predicting the future is never a certainty. But it may even be worse than expected. Blue never had a big population through vanilla(old world). Blues population slowly grew in numbers over the years, so players were easily spread out between zones and levels. Now we are going to have a relative deluge of players bumping elbows in the same handful of zones. It's already a powder keg of potential problems. We don't need to put any nitroglycerin in the keg.

[Coridan]

There's more than enough zones, but they will hopefully adjust the ZEM so people feel less compelled to do specific overpopulated zones.

[NegaStoat]

Certainly going to need to do something about it. Should have already done something about it frankly. It's not classic, it's a zone disruption, it's going to cause petitions. Three good reasons to fix it, none to keep it.

I completely agree, really. Hence my earlier statement that the server staff is probably well aware of what will happen and have something in mind. With a lot of game issues I'm certain they'd just shrug and wish the players would work things out for themselves, but this won't be one of them.

Honestly, if a player has their character start off in Faydwer they should just do the kelethin / felwithe mail run from levels 1-9 in a straight line. I know that sounds demented but you're in full control of getting your levels + spending cash without having to rely on the bats and other mobs that will be badly contested. Around level 8 is where things drop off sharply, but 9 will probably be worth it.

[Jibartik]

I completely agree, really. Hence my earlier statement that the server staff is probably well aware of what will happen and have something in mind. With a lot of game issues I'm certain they'd just shrug and wish the players would work things out for themselves, but this won't be one of them.

Honestly, if a player has their character start off in Faydwer they should just do the kelethin / felwithe mail run from levels 1-9 in a straight line. I know that sounds demented but you're in full control of getting your levels + spending cash without having to rely on the bats and other mobs that will be badly contested. Around level 8 is where things drop off sharply, but 9 will probably be worth it.

mail quests are fine but when you get 9 that means you're screwed because those are the zones that are goign to be hit with bards the hardest.

If you dont wait in line to join one of the 3 or4 groups camping in one of the like 8 "dungeon" zones that exist in those levels, you're going to be out in one of the other 15 zones that are filled with bards and no mobs. BB, Lfay, Karanas, Ro, oasis... the only place you can level is going to be the friggen swamp cus of the water lol

if its a problem there will be no solution beyond nerfing bards...

Someone said there are plenty of zones, but that is not at all true with classic lol you reach max population around 1300 players in classic, and by max I mean a pond group in Mistmoor, a canyon group in misstmore, and a nook group (thats that 3 spawn under the tower) in mistmoore.. a GY group, a Canion2 group, a CE group, and then everyone is too afraid to go in the castle except to pull or to maybe start a group in the garden, even though its been 7 years and theres nothing in there to be afraid of except adventure.

Yeah, i mean, IF bards are a problem, there is no homebrew solution.

To the unclassic ZEM id rather nerf bards to make them behave the way they behaved in classic than have unclassic ZEM! But that's just me! :cool:

[Jibartik]

good thing theres AIM right?

[Wallicker]

A bard can swarm kite crushbone naked at lvl 2 if I don’t run into any shamans looping around the castle... I can swarm kite the unrest yard naked with a drum at lvl 5... once you get selos it becomes really easy... and yea 3 dmg doesn’t sound like much but x25 it’s a 75g per tic mana free dot that I can play endlessly that has -100mr effect so reds die too. Not to mention at lvl 8 you can buy a 4gold lute that doubles your damage. At lvl 10 bard is doing 220ish dmg per tic with a full kite... at 18 that bard is doing 550dmg per tic on a full kite without instrument swapping. It is insanely Powerful once you master it. You will never get hit never have to stop to med or heal and can kill as fast as you can find enough mobs.

[Osprey39]

A bard can swarm kite crushbone naked at lvl 2 if I don’t run into any shamans looping around the castle... I can swarm kite the unrest yard naked with a drum at lvl 5... once you get selos it becomes really easy... and yea 3 dmg doesn’t sound like much but x25 it’s a 75g per tic mana free dot that I can play endlessly that has -100mr effect so reds die too. Not to mention at lvl 8 you can buy a 4gold lute that doubles your damage. At lvl 10 bard is doing 220ish dmg per tic with a full kite... at 18 that bard is doing 550dmg per tic on a full kite without instrument swapping. It is insanely Powerful once you master it. You will never get hit never have to stop to med or heal and can kill as fast as you can find enough mobs.

I know you are knowledgeable about bards Wallicker and I respect what you're saying. I would love to watch and see how you avoid getting bash and instakilled by the Legos by the castle because I know that's where I would fail miserably. I think it is absolutely safe to say though that you are not the average player when it comes to playing bards, you're much better at it than most. I seriously doubt the average jackass would be able to pull off what you're talking about.

That said, my one question still remains. How at 3 damage per tick (or even 6 if it's doubled with a lute) are you going to stop people from peeling mobs off your stack while you're running around a place like CB? How can you stop say a Wiz from nuking your mobs and taking the xp or a pet class like a mage necro from sticking their pets on them and stealing xp that way?

See that's the only reason why I'm even arguing about this is because people are making it sound like bards are going to keep everyone else stuck at level 1 with no mobs to kill to advance. I don't think it's possible if the other players don't have a problem with stealing their mobs because a full group of players can easily out-damage a single bard's PBAE DoT and do damage > 50% thus getting the xp for the mob. Feel free to point out the flaw in what I'm saying if there is one.

[sox7d]

i played a ranger through classic and kunark. as far as the hybrid exp penalty exclusion, the biggest problem with it was how much misinformation was rampantly spread about it.

what people heard: "hybrids have a 40% exp penalty that applies to groups"

what people thought: "every mob we kill has its experience cut in half and then divided amongst all of us"

what it actually meant: "a level 43 ranger is taking as much experience as a level 45 warrior."


the devs are my idols and i cannot thank them enough for giving me my favorite game of all time for a decade, but i really wish they would have put out an official PSA about the reality of the exp penalty that caused so much anti-social behavior from its misinterpretation.

[NegaStoat]

See that's the only reason why I'm even arguing about this is because people are making it sound like bards are going to keep everyone else stuck at level 1 with no mobs to kill to advance.

Think outside the box, or in this case, outside the dungeon. In open air locations like butcherblock, Oasis, etc, a bard can grab a bunch of mobs and conveniently run them to a remote location within the zone where they won't be bothered and slowly kill them there. The average player wanting to peel some off isn't going to have the chance, or simply won't be bothered to constantly move to wherever the bard decides to start killing.

See - Lake of Ill Omen. Now apply this to multiple open air zones and multiple bards working them.

[Osprey39]

Think outside the box, or in this case, outside the dungeon. In open air locations like butcherblock, Oasis, etc, a bard can grab a bunch of mobs and conveniently run them to a remote location within the zone where they won't be bothered and slowly kill them there. The average player wanting to peel some off isn't going to have the chance, or simply won't be bothered to constantly move to wherever the bard decides to start killing.

See - Lake of Ill Omen. Now apply this to multiple open air zones and multiple bards working them.

I am thinking like outside the dungeon lol. I can see where it would be an issue in the outdoor zones but as I said earlier, it's easy enough to avoid the outdoors zones if you want to.

I should probably state that I have no issue with them nerfing the number of mobs bards can hit with their AE. I just don't think it's going to be a bard apocalypse when Green launches. At this point though, both sides have had their say and it will be up for time to tell who was right.

[Wharfrat]

The only thing for certain is that you guys will argue/lawyer/bicker/bitch about anything

[Byel]

The only thing for certain is that you guys will argue/lawyer/bicker/bitch about anything

[Quinas]

Won't be too upset if they can't get spellbook medding working. Such a silly concept.

[GreldorEQ]

High pop at launch, then when people realize how hard it is, it'll drop way off.

"Snare doesn't stack with root?!"
"I can't solo on my Pally?!"
"Trueshot Bow requires how much Fletching?!"

Oh man, it's going to be so much fun! It'll be kinda hard for bards to swarm with 50 people in every single zone.

[Mblake81]

Won't be too upset if they can't get spellbook medding working. Such a silly concept.

What I worked out was the spellbook pops up on screen, with a meditate and stand button beneath it. Chat boxes and health/mana bards remain on screen but everything else fades to blackness.

Just not made for widescreen with no standard UI.

I thought it was a good RP concept and was well done. Listening to the sounds around me while I couldn't see anything, totally focused on my spellbook. Putting my 3d positional audio card to good use. Finally being relieved when I had mastered it enough to not need it and could see.

[7thGate]

Hm. I wonder...

There's a few quests for turning Plat->XP at okish ratios. Rogues can pickpocket safely off anything that's aggroed enough. It takes bards significant time to burn down giant piles of mobs. Pickpocketing other people's mobs confirmed classic and not a bannable offense, and the social stigma against doing it will basically vaporize if you're doing it to a bard.

Wheels turning...

[Jibartik]

My prediction is the pop will be low for a while, if not the whole time, because all the blue players are like "I already invested all this hard work" and like GeldorEQ says, "snare, root?" etc...

But then when the servers are merged, and all those idiots see everyone with guises and manastones, they are going to feel like such idiots for not going to green lolz

[Sizar]

Will non-fleeing mobs take full damage from DoT's? Can't remember if that was a thing. Would be nice to kite without fear.

[salimoneus]

It may have been mentioned, but won't the server likely be capped at say 2k or whatever? Can the servers here handle 3k? 4k?

I think there's a fair number of abandoned/rarely used accounts on blue, and those players may very well make their way back for this new reboot. I would not be surprised in the least to see the dial hit 3k if allowed.

Then again nasty lag in certain zones or even server wide was also classic in the early days so...

[HippoNipple]

My prediction is the pop will be low for a while, if not the whole time, because all the blue players are like "I already invested all this hard work" and like GeldorEQ says, "snare, root?" etc...

But then when the servers are merged, and all those idiots see everyone with guises and manastones, they are going to feel like such idiots for not going to green lolz

Really, starting your entire character over, years of playing with fully decked out Velious gear is worth a dark elf illusion? You can't even use manastones outside of classic zones, they are mostly worthless besides a few rare occasions a wizard or druid is doing something near their bind point or port in. I would assume in all of those situations it would be more efficient to accomplish those PvE goals by being an enchanter or shaman.

I'm sure 3 years from now when there is a merge and some dude is spamming a manastone in EC tunnel with nothing to do people are going to be kicking themselves.

[Jibartik]

Really, starting your entire character over, years of playing with fully decked out Velious gear is worth a dark elf illusion?

Considering I doubt you've even played everquest in 4 years, id say yeah its totally worth it.

You can buy a manastone, but you cant buy DE illusion.

If 20 mana is the difference between an item costing 5k and 50k then I sure do think that DE illusion is priceless.

[Jibartik]

Hippo admit it you will be on green

Also at least old holly will do her part to keep the denizens at bey

https://i.imgur.com/SPtLayn.png

[HippoNipple]

Well dark elf illusion is priceless in the sense that you can't sell it because it is a no drop item. An AoN is much better and still drops.

I was playing Rise of Zek up until about a week ago. I am taking a break now because I wasn't a fan of the AA/raid grind that EQ becomes in later expansions.

I won't play Project 1999 Green. I'm going to give WoW classic a shot and then play Rise of Zek 2.0 in November.

[Mblake81]

But then when the servers are merged, and all those idiots see everyone with guises and manastones, they are going to feel like such idiots for not going to green lolz

Guise, the novelty is cool on class/race combos that don't exist but only when its an exception. Like the rare DE monk on P99.

Manastone, the way campers are now I suspect a number of campers will have accounts full of them, which in turn will make it harder for players with less beard power to get one in the first place. If and when they come to blue they will sell for profits here which will drive the market down, as more accounts roll in to profit. Holgresh Beads camp, there will be line of people waiting in guk with so many angry nerds..

[Jibartik]

fwiw when people tell me its a 'novelty' item I cant help but think this is am emu server for a 20 year old game lol

[Mblake81]

fwiw when people tell me its a 'novelty' item I cant help but think this is am emu server for a 20 year old game lol

Yeah and people are playing it right now, guise is a novelty within that confine. If you are running across the commons and see a Dark Elf paladin come running by.. thats neat.

The guise was always valued for its novelty and the fact only so many had it. More practical for an Ogre/Troll warrior perhaps but its not so cool because those races have classes that a Dark Elf can be (bar shaman which is also cool with guise).

Plenty of people played in era here. 20 years old has nothing to do with it other than a catchphrase on the forums.

[Tecmos Deception]

Manastone, the way campers are now I suspect a number of campers will have accounts full of them, which in turn will make it harder for players with less beard power to get one in the first place.

Harder for players with less beard power to get one than it is on blue. Or than it would be on a magical, fairy-tale green where only casual players exist (and only in moderate numbers, at that).

But really, maxing out the potential number of manastones on the server before they don't drop anymore is the best way to get them in the hands of casual players. Not a GOOD way. But the best way.

[Larethan]

lol all these people thinking that Green will be low or die off. This server is going to be maxed the fuck out from day 1. Everybody be climbing in like it's the last fallout shelter during a nuclear strike.

Ya'll are going to find out what it's like to camp scalded rats in Dagnors because everything is gonna be cleared.

You people really don't know that there were over a million accounts created to play p1999 over the years? How many of those players are gonna come back to try Green? A shitload I promise you. And all it will take is a few thousand to burn the fucker to the ground.

[salimoneus]

lol all these people thinking that Green will be low or die off. This server is going to be maxed the fuck out from day 1. Everybody be climbing in like it's the last fallout shelter during a nuclear strike.

Ya'll are going to find out what it's like to camp scalded rats in Dagnors because everything is gonna be cleared.

You people really don't know that there were over a million accounts created to play p1999 over the years? How many of those players are gonna come back to try Green? A shitload I promise you. And all it will take is a few thousand to burn the fucker to the ground.


It may have been mentioned, but won't the server likely be capped at say 2k or whatever? Can the servers here handle 3k? 4k?

I think there's a fair number of abandoned/rarely used accounts on blue, and those players may very well make their way back for this new reboot. I would not be surprised in the least to see the dial hit 3k if allowed.

Then again nasty lag in certain zones or even server wide was also classic in the early days so...

[Quinas]

The issue will really be over-, not under-population.

[DromalPhrenia]

The correct response to someone picking out of your swarm, btw, is to zone the rest of your kite and come back to the pickers all dead.

[Jibartik]

The correct response to someone picking out of your swarm, btw, is to zone the rest of your kite and come back to the pickers all dead.

This guy plays everquest.

lol all these people thinking that Green will be low or die off. This server is going to be maxed the fuck out from day 1. Everybody be climbing in like it's the last fallout shelter during a nuclear strike.

Ya'll are going to find out what it's like to camp scalded rats in Dagnors because everything is gonna be cleared.

uh... sounds great?

But... if it isnt then its win win for green players, unless its red pop :P

[DromalPhrenia]

I'd kind of like a DE Mask on a paladin, but lol @ leveling a paladin before the stupid exp penalty is removed.

Other than that? I guess Troll shaman.

[booter]

You people really don't know that there were over a million accounts created to play p1999 over the years?

:rolleyes:

[Jibartik]

I wonder if green99 will be like a Diablo launch and nobody will get to log in for like a week because of server issues.

[kotton05]

Red pop will terrorize green just for the bluebie tears

[NegaStoat]

The issue will really be over-, not under-population.
Again, this one really depends on what will happen to Green at the end of its Velious timeline life cycle. If they stick to the old plan they mentioned, all the players are dumped on Blue and Green recycles fresh. And if that's the fuggin' case, a LOT of people are just going to stay on blue and farm with a lower pop that's temporary. Green will just be a classic timeline novelty and nothing more.

Also, I think Classic WoW is going to snag a sizeable portion of the people who would have potentially played/stayed on P1999's servers. Say a prayer for their souls when they find out Blizz was pulling numbers out of their butts and discover that mob AC, damage values, and loot drop rates are NOT classic at all.

[Osprey39]

Red pop will terrorize green just for the bluebie tears

Yeah, those 50 people will be a force to be reckoned with....

[Keza]

lol all these people thinking that Green will be low or die off. This server is going to be maxed the fuck out from day 1. Everybody be climbing in like it's the last fallout shelter during a nuclear strike.

Ya'll are going to find out what it's like to camp scalded rats in Dagnors because everything is gonna be cleared.

I agree it's gonna be loaded, but you people really don't know that there were over a million accounts created to play p1999 over the years? How many of those players are gonna come back to try Green? A shitload I promise you. And all it will take is a few thousand to burn the fucker to the ground.

You think there's going to be anything even remotely close to being remotely close to being remotely close to 1 million players? It's a pointless number in this case. You don't even know how many of the people who made all these accounts are still alive, let alone how many plan to play p99.

Green will probably have 2-3000 people on it at the start, which is a pretty accurate number. Yes, it will be overpopulated. Let me remind every delusional paradiser of when WoW came out and you had to spend an hour doing 1 quest because of all the other people also doing it. Meanwhile Blizzard is rolling in billions of dollars. People will level, the playerbase will spread, some people will stop playing so hardcore, some will quit.. etc etc. It's going to be oversaturated for a while, yes, but that's why camps were created. There is a reason orc1 and derv1 are special memories to veteran live players. It's not because you can just run around claiming 100 spare roamers like on blue.

[Jibartik]

https://youtu.be/9QGQtJL7hSk

[Larethan]

You think there's going to be anything even remotely close to being remotely close to being remotely close to 1 million players? It's a pointless number in this case. You don't even know how many of the people who made all these accounts are still alive, let alone how many plan to play p99.

Green will probably have 2-3000 people on it at the start, which is a pretty accurate number. Yes, it will be overpopulated. Let me remind every delusional paradiser of when WoW came out and you had to spend an hour doing 1 quest because of all the other people also doing it. Meanwhile Blizzard is rolling in billions of dollars. People will level, the playerbase will spread, some people will stop playing so hardcore, some will quit.. etc etc. It's going to be oversaturated for a while, yes, but that's why camps were created. There is a reason orc1 and derv1 are special memories to veteran live players. It's not because you can just run around claiming 100 spare roamers like on blue.

Never did I suggest or even imply that 1 million accounts would be online for Green. It was a figure used to help people who seem to think it will be underpopulated understand that even a tiny fraction of those offline accounts coming back would set fire to the server.

[Jibartik]

Found this gem of a post when red99 launched lmao

"either way wand kiting was no more a sploit than a handful of bards powering their entire afk guild to high 20s/low 30s in 2 days via pulling all of south karana."

Green gonna be pleasant as f