"Camp holding" policy clarification

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Hi guys,

Was holding the AC camp and went LD. The person waiting for the next spot was present and mentioned that LD means that you forfeit the camp, but she wasn't a jerk and would let me retain it. This was between spawns, my disconnect happened after the previous kill, and I reconnected prior to the next pop (though it was a bit longer than crash->login as it required a restart to get back in).

In looking for a ruling, I found this (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290929&page=8%7C):

If you die, go LD or leave the zone you can lose the camp if another player calls you on it. SF, AC, Lucan are no exceptions.

But the remainder of the post goes on to elaborate that discretion is key, and any "lawyerquest" or similar outside of the PNP would be met with less than supportive GM decisions. Similarly, there is this (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349) thread that states:

In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off.

This uses the phrase 'log off,' that sounds a bit more deliberate than 'ld,' but again, I'm not trying to put words/intentions in the developers mouths.

So how is it? Any 'ld' at a camp means forfeit? Opinions? Harder/faster rules from admins that can weigh in on the situation?

[Maldarian]

They were kind, you lost the camp when you went LD

[Bardp1999]

As long as you were back before the next spawn the camp was yours. You have to kill a PH to claim a camp. If you are keeping the PHers down you are fine. If a PH spawns and some else kills it.....you're fucked out of the camp

[Jimjam]

You have to kill a PH to claim a camp.

Hadden thread taught us this is untrue. Whoever gets there first can claim the camp between spawns if no one is holding it.

[DMN]

Hi guys,


In looking for a ruling, I found this (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290929&page=8%7C):



But the remainder of the post goes on to elaborate that discretion is key, and any "lawyerquest" or similar outside of the PNP would be met with less than supportive GM decisions. Similarly, there is this (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349) thread that states:


So how is it? Any 'ld' at a camp means forfeit? Opinions? Harder/faster rules from admins that can weigh in on the situation?


Technically, LD means you could lose your camp if you come back and someone else has claimed it. Yep. While it does talk about other things, it's quite specific about that. Most of the rest being talked about is when you should engage a mob that's being camped yet the camper isn't killing the mob in a timely manner. Completely different matter.

[Maliant]

If you leave the zone (die / PC crash etc.) for any reason you no longer have a claim to the camp.

[Worry]

That person was really cool, you lost camp when you went LD.

[Stroboo]

As everyone else said, you lose the camp but not many people would claim any camp because of an LD with quickish return...we play in a small sandbox that isn’t going anywhere, no reason to be rude

[Troxx]

They were kind, you lost the camp when you went LD

This. It was very nice of them.

If you leave the zone for any reason you technically lose the camp.

[fastboy21]

As long as you were back before the next spawn the camp was yours. You have to kill a PH to claim a camp. If you are keeping the PHers down you are fine. If a PH spawns and some else kills it.....you're fucked out of the camp

This is the nice thing to do...but I don't think you are correct.

Killing the PH isn't the only requirement to "hold" a camp. You also have to be in the zone, you have to be reasonably nearby.

If I'm camping the AC and decide to port and gate back between kills I will rightfully lose the camp...even if I make it back before the next pop. If I decide to camp out to do a fast transfer on another char between kills its the same thing.

Ofc, if you see someone go LD the nice thing to do is to give them the camp back if they make it back pretty quickly.

[kjs86z]

There is a special place in Elf Hell for those that lawyerquest someone out of a camp for a brief LD in between a spawn timer.

[Teppler]

The rules state you must have a physical presence at a camp if challenged. If you’re off line, it’s impossible to have a physical presence.

[fastboy21]

There is a special place in Elf Hell for those that lawyerquest someone out of a camp for a brief LD in between a spawn timer.

The problem isn't just the guy that refuses to give back the camps...

There are people who lie about an LD in order to talk someone else out of the camp. Unfortunately, I think there are actually more of these ppl than lawyers on the server.

[loramin]

Killing the PH isn't the only requirement to "hold" a camp. You also have to be in the zone, you have to be reasonably nearby.

As Teppler noted, that's actually not true. It only applies:

if challenged.

So yeah if you're doing several spawns, and someone shows up and wants to share, you have to stay near the one spawn point you want to keep. But until that point you can kill mob A, run all the way to the other end of the zone, kill mobs B, C, and D, stop at some vendors, visit the bank, maybe get some buffs ... and as long as you get back to mob A's spawn point before A spawns, it's still your's.

From the latest revision of the Play Nice Policy ... which, BTW, I'm working on a more "fun" version of in the wiki (http://wiki.project1999.com/Play_Nice_Policy_Enhanced) (in hopes of getting a greater percentage of the server to read it) and would welcome any suggestions:

In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it.

[fastboy21]

As Teppler noted, that's actually not true. It only applies:



What I said is true...obviously, you never lose a camp to someone else unless there is another player that wants it.

I do see what you are saying, that the mere act of running across the zone doesn't cause you to lose the camp unless someone wants to challenge it from you...in which case you get to pick (not lose it automatically).

[loramin]

What I said is true...obviously, you never lose a camp to someone else unless there is another player that wants it.

I do see what you are saying, that the mere act of running across the zone doesn't cause you to lose the camp unless someone wants to challenge it from you...in which case you get to pick (not lose it automatically).

Exactly :)

Before anyone has challenged you, there is no obligation to sit around waiting at the camp for a mob to respawn. The only obligation is that you make it back before respawn (and not even technically that; technically it's "make it back and start in a reasonable amount of time" ... so even if you are two seconds late in getting back you still don't lose camp ... but 10 seconds? a minute? five minutes? Then it's a staff call as to how long is too long).

And I was less trying to call you out (apologies if it seemed that way) and more just trying to emphasize that point for other readers. I've seen multiple players misunderstand this in-game and think they could take a camp from someone (without even talking to them) simply because they showed up while the first player wasn't at the camp location (even though the first player originally cleared the spawn AND made it back in time for respawn).

[mizzbiscuits]

I was feeling very nice last night. Glad you got your ring!

[NegaStoat]

They were kind, you lost the camp when you went LD
This.

/thread

[wagorf]

my SF camp was taken because I LDed from server crash (at least half the server were kicked, it was all over discord)

GMs don't care why - you LD, zone out, camp out, for whatever reason not in zone, the camp is ffa

you should thank the guy who lets you get your camp back

[Legidias]

They can't reasonably rule for LD's. You can 'fake' a LD very easily if you wanted a brief break and there's no way for a ruling other than you submitting all your personal info and having yourself recorded / sending in said recording.

[aaezil]

If you die, zone, or go LD you no longer hold your camp. That’s how ive always seen it enforced.

[Atmas]

Leaving a zone means giving up a camp. If it didn't it could be exploited.

That being the case I would definitely give a camp back to a person who I know had been camping something before and went LD. It sounds like the person you were dealing with was nice. Unfortunately, there are a lot of a-holes on the server so don't expect to always have the same kind of outcome in the future.

[Menden]

If you die, zone, or go LD you no longer hold your camp. That’s how ive always seen it enforced.

[loramin]

On the wiki (http://wiki.project1999.com/Play_Nice_Policy_Enhanced) I made a slightly longer version that basically says the same thing (but with more detail for those that like detail). Obviously it's not official, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate (and if it's not please correct me!):


Players lose camps when any of the following occurs:


the player gives the camp to another player

this includes cases where one player is holding multiple camps and another player asks to share (the first player loses all camps but one)

the player leaves the zone, dies, or similarly "reloads" (eg. Evacuates or Succors ... but not being Call of the Heroed or Gating within zone, as those spells don't trigger "reloads")
the player fails to engage the mob(s) at the camp within a "reasonable" amount of time (where "reasonable" is interpreted by the staff member in question for each case; you are strongly encouraged to talk to the camp holder and give them the longest definition of "reasonable amount of time" you can manage)
IF the player has had their camp "challenged" (ie. if instead of doing as many camps as they want they have been forced by another player to pick a single camp) AND the player leaves that single camp for an extended period of time but stays within the zone ... they can lose the camp (but only a GM can decide whether they stayed close enough for long enough, or not).

[loramin]

Just to clarify the bit about Evac/Succor, I don't think Evac/Succor has ever been officially confirmed as making you lose a camp (I couldn't find a ruling for it either way) ... but logically it seems like it should, because I'm pretty sure while you're Evaccing someone can take a /who that shows you've left the zone (as you do leave the zone briefly while using these spells ... unlike CotH/Gate).