Importance of ideal starting stats?

[renegadeofunk]

I just got my dorf rogue to 25 and today it occurred to me how easy it's going to be to hit 200+ strength considering my starting stats were 25 str/5 stam.

I don't have explicit plans to raid, but I might, and I see now that 25 stam/5 str is the recommendation for endgame. Is it worth rerolling at this point for that 80 health?

[Troxx]

Starting stats are not important

Carry on...

[Crawdad]

I don't have explicit plans to raid

Nope.

[Halfcell]

Starting stats don't matter at all, with very few, very niche exceptions. Don't worry about it. If a stat matters, your gear will take care of it.

[Swish2]

If you're getting hit as a rogue, something is wrong. In DPS terms tanking is the last thing you want to be doing <3

So don't worry about the stats, and know you're probably still ahead of dark elves, gnomes, half elves...and perhaps others in the stamina department :)

[Mentathiel]

As a wood-elf rogue, I put my starting points into dex. I know now I should have had strength, but I had just joined the server and was stupid. Also, I play D&D...

Cheap-ish strength gear got me up to double my starting strength, but it's my choice of weapon and my haste item which affect who good I am in combat. Strength is nice, helps me carry more loot, but stat gear is easy to find on this server and at least I proc more often than most characters,

[Fammaden]

If you're getting hit as a rogue, something is wrong. In DPS terms tanking is the last thing you want to be doing <3

Yeah but if he gets into raiding then the AE damage is going to make him wish for that 25 sta, while raid buffs will likely make maxxing out str trivial even in resist gear.

Don't reroll IMO though, 25 is enough of a pain in the ass to me that I'd keep going.

[kotton05]

You get max stats in velious anyways so don’t matter qft

[DinoTriz2]

I just got my dorf rogue to 25 and today it occurred to me how easy it's going to be to hit 200+ strength considering my starting stats were 25 str/5 stam.

I don't have explicit plans to raid, but I might, and I see now that 25 stam/5 str is the recommendation for endgame. Is it worth rerolling at this point for that 80 health?

No, don't reroll.

1) Stats aren't terribly important.

2) Going 25 STR/5 STAM will benefit you from 1-60 more than the other way around.

3) You can invest in HP items while forgoing a few STR items.

4) See number 2.

[Pint]

The only starting stat that matters is having at least 75 agi, everything else is w/e

[Jibartik]

by the time you get your new rogue to 60 you'll be maining your other totally new 3rd character already anyway so just have fun :o

[Danth]

Race and starting statistics mean very little for Rogues, probably less than for any other class. It matters even less on P99 than it did on live because the yellow bar does not work here, allowing stamina to be virtually ignored other than for a small hit point return.

Danth

[Argh]

There is only one consideration you should make when choosing a race and that is fashionquest.

[Crede]

The only objective thing that matters at creation is whether or not you chose an iksar/troll over any other race due to the ridiculous difference in hp that you will be generating over the lifetime of your character.

Starting stats/Fsi/slightly more ac, xp penalty, etc. all pale in comparison and are personal preference.

[Jimjam]

I normally go for all str on my new characters. It seems to help a lot at low levels where all classes are encouraged to melee and at mid levels where there is a lot of heavy loot worth a few pp (mammoth tusks, fine steel, etc). My first character is a troll shadow knight and even at 51 he isn't max str with siphon strength. There won't always be a shaman around to double str + pe hammer you.

[kjs86z]

Only one that matters, I'd argue, is enc and cha.

More gear options if you max cha (even then, it ultimately isn't going to matter).

[Larethan]

Lol people that say starting stats don't matter. Pretty masterful trolling if you ask me. Luckily he's DWF and his allocation was actually good for a first rogue toon.

So yeah, you could have fucked it up royally but you didn't. Someone looking to min max a rogue for endgame would probably have gone all STA/DEX because procs can be useful for duo's and trios and that extra HP will save your ass when it comes down to the wire. For a casual rogue it will be better to go all STR though because getting gear will be a chore, and you might not always have a pal to buff you to hard cap.

[Endonde]

There is only one consideration you should make when choosing a race and that is fashionquest.

[DMN]

It matters a little bit up until you have all the uber raid gear, but 99% of people pondering this will never have all that gear anyway.


as a rogue you don't have to worry too much though. And dwarf being tied for best race for rogue you already got a bit of a buffer against misplaced starting points.

[Atmas]

I don't feel like starting stats are the end of all things with rogues but more significant with some other classes, like tanks.

[branamil]

They're irrelevant. Ending the game with 15 more DEX or whatever means absolutely nothing

[Osprey39]

Lol people that say starting stats don't matter. Pretty masterful trolling if you ask me. Luckily he's DWF and his allocation was actually good for a first rogue toon.

So yeah, you could have fucked it up royally but you didn't. Someone looking to min max a rogue for endgame would probably have gone all STA/DEX because procs can be useful for duo's and trios and that extra HP will save your ass when it comes down to the wire. For a casual rogue it will be better to go all STR though because getting gear will be a chore, and you might not always have a pal to buff you to hard cap.

Ah, the good ol' "everyone else is wrong and I'm right" argument. Surprised it took this long to surface.

[Zipity]

Do you want to reroll? Then do it, if not carry on, but you could take a dwarf or barbarian rogue and 250pp and be lvl 18 in 5 hrs completely naked. Then it’s just 7 levels til your back where you started. If you want to reroll do it now while you are only like 12-18hrs in the hole. PM me for details on speed lvling rogue.

[baakss]

Ending the game

Haha good one. You’re in our world now.

[Larethan]

Ah, the good ol' "everyone else is wrong and I'm right" argument. Surprised it took this long to surface.

I rarely post but when something as ridiculous as 'starting stats don't matter' becomes a theme someone has to speak up for reality.

The only people who believe that starting stats don't matter are those who have accumulated enough money to get to soft caps at level 1 with twinked gear and don't remember what it's like to actually be new, or those who don't understand the game mechanics and think that stats don't matter because they can't 'see' the difference because they're ignorant and don't use parsing tools.

If you want to be a realist and make comparisons to other games, then you could say that stats are less impactful in Everquest and you would be correct.

If you want to be a realist and judge whether it's actually worth it for this guy to re-roll at level 25 after going all STR as a Dwarf Rogue then that would be a fair argument on both ends.


But saying 'starting stats don't matter', or matter very little, is completely false.

[Osprey39]

I rarely post but when something as ridiculous as 'starting stats don't matter' becomes a theme someone has to speak up for reality.

The only people who believe that starting stats don't matter are those who have accumulated enough money to get to soft caps at level 1 with twinked gear and don't remember what it's like to actually be new, or those who don't understand the game mechanics and think that stats don't matter because they can't 'see' the difference because they're ignorant and don't use parsing tools.

If you want to be a realist and make comparisons to other games, then you could say that stats are less impactful in Everquest and you would be correct.

If you want to be a realist and judge whether it's actually worth it for this guy to re-roll at level 25 after going all STR as a Dwarf Rogue then that would be a fair argument on both ends.


But saying 'starting stats don't matter', or matter very little, is completely false.

Just gonna start out with full disclosure that I have never previously and likely never will raid in EQ as I have a general dislike of raiding in any game. So call me names that are supposed to insult me like 'casual' if it makes you feel better, I don't care.

That said, you will never convince me that having 80 more hit points at level 60 makes 2 squirts of piss worth of difference. If you lived with only 80 hit points in an encounter, it wasn't that extra 20 points of stam at creation that saved you, it was luck with RNGesus. 20 points of dex might be helpful for procs but worth starting over for? Nah, not to me.

So you can put me in the camp that says starting stats are overblown. 20 points one way or the other will not make or break your character and it really won't matter to anyone that isn't a min/maxer with their built in OCD.

[Endonde]

I rarely post but when something as ridiculous as 'starting stats don't matter' becomes a theme someone has to speak up for reality.

The only people who believe that starting stats don't matter are those who have accumulated enough money to get to soft caps at level 1 with twinked gear and don't remember what it's like to actually be new, or those who don't understand the game mechanics and think that stats don't matter because they can't 'see' the difference because they're ignorant and don't use parsing tools.

If you want to be a realist and make comparisons to other games, then you could say that stats are less impactful in Everquest and you would be correct.

If you want to be a realist and judge whether it's actually worth it for this guy to re-roll at level 25 after going all STR as a Dwarf Rogue then that would be a fair argument on both ends.


But saying 'starting stats don't matter', or matter very little, is completely false.



No one cares if you're doing 18 dps instead of 20 dps as a lvl 25 rogue at MM Pond groups, If you are busting out Gamparse to track your damage in exp groups you might be an insane person.

[DMN]

No one cares if you're doing 18 dps instead of 20 dps as a lvl 25 rogue at MM Pond groups, If you are busting out Gamparse to track your damage in exp groups you might be an insane person.

You certainly might if you were duoing/soloing and all the damage was coming from the rogue. You'd be leveling 10% slower.

[Osprey39]

You certainly might if you were duoing/soloing and all the damage was coming from the rogue. You'd be leveling 10% slower.

Oh no, the horror!

[DMN]

Oh no, the horror!

Whether or not it would bother you is irrelevant to it bothering someone else. There are people who roll halfling clerics just for the 5% exp bonus, 10% is nothing to sneeze at in a game as grindy and time consuming as EQ.

[Jibartik]

I am the most powerful rogue thanks to my parse, me and the other 73 characters that killed that 20 year old creature really used my high parse to win.

[Osprey39]

Whether or not it would bother you is irrelevant to it bothering someone else. There are people who roll halfling clerics just for the 5% exp bonus, 10% is nothing to sneeze at in a game as grindy and time consuming as EQ.

Well thank God the vast majority of people on this server realize long and grindy is what they signed up for and aren't dickheads like that or I'd never get groups on my ALS toons in their spartan gear.

[TomisFeline]

this thread got dank af

[DMN]

Well thank God the vast majority of people on this server realize long and grindy is what they signed up for and aren't dickheads like that or I'd never get groups on my ALS toons in their spartan gear.

You clearly didn't grasp what I said. The dickhead would, in fact, be you in my example.

[Larethan]

Well thank God the vast majority of people on this server realize long and grindy is what they signed up for and aren't dickheads like that or I'd never get groups on my ALS toons in their spartan gear.

The vast majority on this server assign value to stats. If they didn't, we'd have a bunch of naked toons running around and East Commons would be empty. Farming would be useless.

The insanity in this thread is several people denying the reality that stats have value in Everquest.

Imagine if there were a drop in game that allowed you to choose +25 of any stat combination and apply it permanently to a character. Imagine the value of something like this if it were possible to trade. If you think it would be worth anything less than 200k then I have a bridge to sell you.

That's what starting stats are 'worth' to the rest of the server. Maybe you don't give a shit, but most people do. You're definitely the odd one out.

And btw, I don't give a shit if you consider yourself casual. Terms relative and not an insult imo.

[azeth]

No one cares if you're doing 18 dps instead of 20 dps as a lvl 25 rogue at MM Pond groups, If you are busting out Gamparse to track your damage in exp groups you might be an insane person.

qft. Makes me confused when i see people twinking their rogues with anything but hp, resist and sta gear

[Osprey39]

The vast majority on this server assign value to stats. If they didn't, we'd have a bunch of naked toons running around and East Commons would be empty. Farming would be useless.

The insanity in this thread is several people denying the reality that stats have value in Everquest.

Imagine if there were a drop in game that allowed you to choose +25 of any stat combination and apply it permanently to a character. Imagine the value of something like this if it were possible to trade. If you think it would be worth anything less than 200k then I have a bridge to sell you.

That's what starting stats are 'worth' to the rest of the server. Maybe you don't give a shit, but most people do. You're definitely the odd one out.

And btw, I don't give a shit if you consider yourself casual. Terms relative and not an insult imo.

Yeah, everyone is concerned with stats. I get that. You can't compare an item that is +25 with starting stats though because you can't buy starting stats. Of course people with lots of plat will pay lots for such an item but is it necessary? Probably not.

Again, go back to what the guy that started the thread mentioned which was STA. 20 more STA would give him, as a rogue, a whole 80 hit points. If you would pay 200k for 80 hit points you have more plat than brains.

Oh, one more thing. Go back and read the thread. Almost everyone but you told the OP that it was no big deal.

[DMN]

qft. Makes me confused when i see people twinking their rogues with anything but hp, resist and sta gear

You must be easily confused.

[Larethan]

Yeah, everyone is concerned with stats. I get that. You can't compare an item that is +25 with starting stats though because you can't buy starting stats. Of course people with lots of plat will pay lots for such an item but is it necessary? Probably not.

Again, go back to what the guy that started the thread mentioned which was STA. 20 more STA would give him, as a rogue, a whole 80 hit points. If you would pay 200k for 80 hit points you have more plat than brains.

Oh, one more thing. Go back and read the thread. Almost everyone but you told the OP that it was no big deal.

Wrong. I told the OP that he's fine with going STR on DWF Rogue for a new character. I picked a bone with all the people saying that starting stats are irrelevant, which is false. If OP had gone say, all CHA or INT on his toon I would have advised him to re-roll

The ironic part of you telling me to 'read the thread' is that you provably demonstrated that you didn't read the thread.

[Jimjam]

Let's remember the topic is 'importance of ideal starting stats'. So while starting stats aren't irrelevant, having ideal starting stats isn't really important.

80 hp on a 60 toon that rarely takes hits, except AoEs when raiding... There are enough DPS toons in endgame to ensure the the boss will run out of hp before the rogue does. That's best case scenario.

[Fammaden]

Silver Chitin wrists are regularly worn by rogues for 9-10k per pair and a large part of their value is the 40 HP each. In a vacuum 80 hp doesn't sound like much, but every part adds up and helps your surviveability in the middle of a dragon ae.

The +25 for 200k was hyperbole, but we see how much value 40 HP, or 80 HP adds to an item, and how some of the most top end lusted after gear tends to have a +100 HP stat line. In a vacuum "how much does 100 HP really mean to a tank or melee character?" but in reality people are clawing over each other to get their hands on it. Even items with +50 HP are really really good items short of the bleeding edge ToV level stuff.

Bottom line STR is trivial, STA/HP not so much. Starting with the points in stats is absolutely important, but not worth rerolling over either if the time to level is valuable to the player.

[Osprey39]

Wrong. I told the OP that he's fine with going STR on DWF Rogue for a new character. I picked a bone with all the people saying that starting stats are irrelevant, which is false. If OP had gone say, all CHA or INT on his toon I would have advised him to re-roll

The ironic part of you telling me to 'read the thread' is that you provably demonstrated that you didn't read the thread.

Of course I read it and I know what you told him. It's highly doubtful even the most noobish of players would go CHA or INT on a rogue so that's irrelevant. The point I'm making along with most of the other people that replied in this thread is whether he put that 20 points in STR, DEX or STA, in the long run it isn't going to make a whole hell of a lot of difference. You seem to be one of those OCD min/maxers I talked about earlier that thinks it will. You can go on thinking that but don't come in here and try to use that as a basis to say everyone else is wrong.

[Misek84]

Regular stats effect your char indirectly, i.e. more sta = equals slightly more hps, more str = slightly more attack, more agi = slightly more AC. Since what matters is the actual dmg you can do to a mob and the dmg you can take from a mob, the indirect effect of regular stats is marginal at best. The only thing that matters are the improvements that directly effect your char i.e. haste, regen items, FT items, dmg/dly of weapon, avatar proc for the Atk, racial regen/stun immunity, and HP/mana items. Those are the only things you should worry about. Worrying about regular stats is OCD since it doesnt matter unless you purposely just gimp your char by wearing something like banded armor at lvl 60. The only exceptions are the few special circumstances such as CHA to an ench using charm

[fastboy21]

With little exception it doesn't matter much...about 1/3 of classes aren't even gear dependent.

The difference between ogre and nome stats for an untwinked baby warrior are a big deal, but the difference between a nome with the optimally chosen stats and a nome with the least optimally chosen stats is fairly negligible.

There are a couple of exceptions on the margins (like don't let your agility be too low at start), but by and large it would be almost non-existent except for the most discerning of parses.

Generally speaking, for the classes that stats make a big difference you will easily make up for it in even pre-raid gear with group buffs.

[Nikkanu]

I went max STR on my Iksar Necromancer and it's made zero difference. I can still perform exactly the same on raids as max INT or max STAM necros and solo the exact same things. Hope this helps. :D

[jolanar]

Putting all your points into Charisma unless you are a Shaman that can buff it over 104 is the true power move of P99.