How the Lanys T'Vyl server handled events on Live

[Dolalin]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010203171200/http://www.calsnet.com/lanyscalendar

We should have one for P99.

[Jimjam]

We need so many more open planar raids to be classic....

[Moerne]

Don't forget those raids weren't the contested raid zones/mobs, just the ones that were available to casual raiders. Is Trakanon FFA? Only 7D knows.

[loramin]

Not Classic! ;)

But seriously, wouldn't P99 raiding be like a million times better if we had that instead of bat phones? Maybe not to the "poop socking is my life" crowd, but for just about everyone else.

[Immok]

That's a lot of Naggy raids

[rezzie]

I'm neither ranting nor flaming here Loramin, but for someone who doesn't raid you're very vocal about how raiding should be done.

There is a difference between "I enjoy raiding content." versus "I enjoying raiding content by beating other players to it." This server caters to players who prefer the latter - see the comments by Rogean and nilbog.

If this server is a million times worse for you because of that focus, why not go to a server that mandated rotations or offered instances, instead of trying to change this server into something it has never been?

[loramin]

I'm neither ranting nor flaming here Loramin, but for someone who doesn't raid you're very vocal about how raiding should be done.

There is a difference between "I enjoy raiding content." versus "I enjoying raiding content by beating other players to it." This server caters to players who prefer the latter - see the comments by Rogean and nilbog.

If this server is a million times worse for you because of that focus, why not go to a server that mandated rotations or offered instances, instead of trying to change this server into something it has never been?

Someone's defensive about their poop socking!

Look, two things. First off, Rogean and Nilbog have never said they're "100% team competition". Rogean is pretty big on "competition" yes, but Nilbog was talking about implementing instances for Pete's sake: that's like the polar opposite of competition (and Rogean did not explicitly shoot the idea down either).

Second, none of that matters. I'm allowed to have an opinion that's not the same as either Rogean or Nilbog. And that opinion definitely is that of someone who raids.

I love that Anonymous/AEGIS has predictable/scheduled raids. I love knowing that certain things are happening on certain nights so that I can tell the wife "I'll be killing dragons on Friday so you have to get dinner". To me that's the best of all worlds: getting to raid, with lots of other lovers of classic EverQuest, content I never got to twenty years ago ... but not having to sacrifice my real life to a video game just to be able to play it.

And this isn't some crazy un-classic modern desire: as the OP showed it was happening for people back in 2001 on some servers (it happened to a lesser extent on my server, Bristlebane, where I once "won" the rotation for Vox and got to lead an open raid on her, which was one of the high points of my entire time playing on live).

You're welcome to your opinion, but the fact that you feel the need to attack me for mine (outside of RnF no less) says far more about you than it does about me.

[rezzie]

My comment was not intended as an attack, and I didn't say you were not entitled to an opinion.

There are people that want to experience classic content, and there are people that want to experience classic content in a "competitive" environment against other players and guilds. This server caters to the latter.

[loramin]

My comment was not intended as an attack, and I didn't say you were not entitled to an opinion.

There are people that want to experience classic content, and there are people that want to experience classic content in a "competitive" environment against other players and guilds. This server caters to the latter.

It caters to both, in varying degrees. You're myopic if you can't see that.

[Kayso2]

For someone who hasn't been raiding very long, you're also very vocal, Monrezz.

[rezzie]

It caters to both, in varying degrees.

I'm in complete agreement.

Most people take the route of joining the server, joining a causal XP guild, getting their toes wet in some low-tier raiding, and then either stay there and keep things casual, or they catch the itch and join a raiding guild.

Edit: So my original comment was really aimed at the people that want to remain in a casual guild, want the convenience of scheduled raids, and want the comfort of knowing they won't spend hours clearing trash only to be leapfrogged by another guild. That just isn't the case on this server.

[bigjeff100]

Someone's defensive about their poop socking!

Look, two things. First off, Rogean and Nilbog have never said they're "100% team competition". Rogean is pretty big on "competition" yes, but Nilbog was talking about implementing instances for Pete's sake: that's like the polar opposite of competition (and Rogean did not explicitly shoot the idea down).

Second, none of that matters. I'm allowed to have an opinion that's not the same as either Rogean or Nilbog. And that opinion definitely is that of someone who raids.

I love that Anonymous/AEGIS has predictable/scheduled raids. I love knowing that certain things are happening on certain nights so that I can tell the wife "I'll be killing dragons on Friday so you have to get dinner". To me that's the best of all worlds: getting to raid, with lots of other lovers of classic EverQuest, content I never got to twenty years ago ... but not having to sacrifice my real life to a video game just to be able to play it.

And this isn't some crazy modern desire; as the OP showed it was happening for people back in 2001 on some servers (it happened to a lesser extent on my server, Bristlebane, where I once "won" the rotation for Vox and got to lead an open raid on her).

You're welcome to your opinion, but the fact that you need to attack me for mine (outside of RnF no less) says far more about you than it does about me.

Man i always seem to agree with you.. And this situation is no different.. Well said Loramin.

[Moerne]

And this isn't some crazy un-classic modern desire: as the OP showed it was happening for people back in 2001 on some servers (it happened to a lesser extent on my server, Bristlebane, where I once "won" the rotation for Vox and got to lead an open raid on her, which was one of the high points of my entire time playing on live).




Go back and look at that calendar again. I've posted it twice on these forums in the past because it was ONLY for reserving casual raid mobs. This calendar is from 2001. Note what's missing. ToV. Tunare. Sleeper's. Statue/AOW. VP. Lanys NEVER rotated or reserved the mobs that our "Uber guilds" were taking on. This calendar is not supportive of your argument that rotations were happening on some some servers. If you think PoH and PoF trash should be scheduled raids, then by all means. But top-end mobs were never a part of that.

[Crawdad]

Luclin had a bunch of QoL stuff on its website. Raid calendars, character profiles (proto-Magelos), an updated and searchable list of characters' class, race, and guild status. Guild links, player stories, an Exp calculator and tons o' other stuff.
Main website (https://web.archive.org/web/20001120143200/http://www.luclin.com:80/cgi-bin/profile_utilities.pl)
Art gallery (some still work) (https://web.archive.org/web/20010803023126/http://luclin.com/cgi-bin/artindex.pl)
Raid calendars (https://web.archive.org/web/20010614142005/http://everquest.estoncom.com/luclin/)


The marketplace is funny looking back. 4k for a Brown chitin protector, 4k for a clay guardian shield, 4k for an advisor robe:
Marketplace (https://web.archive.org/web/20001120171900/http://www.luclin.com/cgi-bin/total_inventory_view.pl?searchtype=have)

[Immok]

The marketplace is funny looking back. 4k for a Brown chitin protector, 4k for a clay guardian shield, 4k for an advisor robe:
Marketplace (https://web.archive.org/web/20001120171900/http://www.luclin.com/cgi-bin/total_inventory_view.pl?searchtype=have)

Good Lord, 18k for a Sword of Skyfire.

[loramin]

First off, Rogean and Nilbog have never said they're "100% team competition". Rogean is pretty big on "competition" yes, but Nilbog was talking about implementing instances for Pete's sake: that's like the polar opposite of competition (and Rogean did not explicitly shoot the idea down either).

So, I owe GM Nilbog a sincere apology here. When I wrote that he had been "talking about implementing instances" I was referring to the conversation in Braknar's logs a few months back.

I recently reviewed that conversation and realized I had misunderstood what Nilbog said in it. While he did talk about instances as a solution other devs had used, and he did talk about specifically implementing a non-classic solution for ToV, in hindsight it's clear that he was referring to something like rooted dragons, not instances.

Talking about someone's private conversations that have been exposed without their permission is already a bit sketchy, but misinterpreting them to claim someone said something they didn't is even worse, so I truly apologize for misremembering/misunderstanding that conversation and falsely claiming that Nilbog considered instances as an option (when again, if you re-read the conversation, the instance stuff was coming more from Sirken and Nilbog never explicitly said it was an option).

Apologies GM Nilbog!

I still stand by my viewpoint, and I'll hold it regardless of whether Rogean and Nilbog agree with me ... but I never meant to misrepresent Nilbog in any way, and certainly not to paint him as being for instances when he never was.

[Dolalin]

The Lanys calendar was used to coordinate planes raids and minor bosses like Naggy and Vox. It was not used for big targets -- partly because guilds like Conquest rarely respected it. But most other guilds did.

A calendar system for P99 would in my mind be for these purposes: fostering more open raids and helping mid-tier guilds coordinate so they aren't stepping on each other's toes.

Kael Arena, WTOV/NTOV farming, +6 dragons, PoH/PoF/PoG armor farms, Sky, and maybe even Naggy and Vox open raids would be great things to see on there and would foster a more community feel for the server.

[Twochain]

Looks like summer camp!

[Aviann]

Sorry Loramin but that literally sounds like "How dare everyone not conform to my schedule!"

The competition we see here is classic af... The only thing that isn't classic from back in the day on most servers is the amount of knowledge we have on how to beat encounters and the amount of gear that blue is full of, as well as the amount of politics that are going into this. It used to be cutthroat on Bristlebane, and I miss that. If Blue was like that, I'd probably be playing there instead of Red. Stop trying to make the server into something it isn't. The second you cater to the casual at end game, you will kill the raidscene, kill any sense of competition whatsoever. A-Team will have epics ffs.

[loramin]

Sorry Loramin but that literally sounds like "How dare everyone not conform to my schedule!"

The competition we see here is classic af... The only thing that isn't classic from back in the day on most servers is the amount of knowledge we have on how to beat encounters and the amount of gear that blue is full of, as well as the amount of politics that are going into this. It used to be cutthroat on Bristlebane, and I miss that. If Blue was like that, I'd prsobably be playing there instead of Red. Stop trying to make the server into something it isn't. The second you cater to the casual at end game, you will kill the raidscene, kill any sense of competition whatsoever. A-Team will have epics ffs.

First off, it's not a black or white thing. Servers can have rotations and also have competition. In fact, Blue has rotated raid content, which has worked very successfully for many years: Plane of Sky. Plus we have open raids and player-run rolls (eg. Scout), which similarly enable players to experience content despite the presence of "top competitors".

On many live servers content was rotated 1-3 years after release (vs. our seven years of Kunark and three of Velious). This was a great thing: it led to tons of people (myself included) getting to do encounters they never would have otherwise. I lead an open Vox raid and many on it got to see Vox for the first time (and some lucky person who could never have gotten their epic otherwise got one).

I would hope that people here would be sympathetic to that, because it's what P99 is all about: letting people experience old EverQuest content that they missed out on or want to replay, years after the "O.G. competitors" faced it. I think there's room for those people to get to experience raid content and still let people that want to "compete" do so.

Whenever Blue, whether through player action or staff action, has opened up content to more players, it's always been a huge success. I think rotations do exactly that, and with Green and "real competition" (or as close as we'll ever get to it) coming in October it seems like the perfect time to do some more of it on Blue.

But really I'm not even pro-rotations, I'm just pro-letting people play classic EQ, and rotations seem like a means to that end

[DromalPhrenia]

The problem is that these resources (whether items or the dragons you get to kill to maybe get the items) are limited. With instanced content, everyone who wants to raid can do so every week. With non-instanced content (i.e. here on p99), only one guild can kill whatever mob we're discussing. Without instances, there's no way for you to get loot without someone else losing their opportunity.

With competition, everyone theoretically has a shot. Whether it be by joining a raid guild, or recruiting to their own guild, or forming an alliance, whatever it may be, they have an opportunity to be the ones to kill the dragon and get the loot. With a rotation, only one guild has that opportunity. The others are denied of loot flat-out.

I'm personally not in favor of instances, but I don't understand why anyone would argue for rotations OVER instances. With both options, you have an uncontested opportunity to kill the dragon and a chance for the loot to drop. With instances, everyone else has that same chance. With rotations, everyone else is denied that mob and that loot for X amount of days/weeks, and once you have your shot, you are denied that mob and that loot for the same number of days/weeks. What is the advantage to rotations over instances?

[loramin]

The problem is that these resources (whether items or the dragons you get to kill to maybe get the items) are limited. With instanced content, everyone who wants to raid can do so every week. With non-instanced content (i.e. here on p99), only one guild can kill whatever mob we're discussing. Without instances, there's no way for you to get loot without someone else losing their opportunity.

Right, and for ten years that guild has been the first to engage or the first to win the CotH race or the first to play whatever non-classic but as-close-as-we-can-come-to-classic competition.

I just think letting some other criteria, even a pure random roll (like the one I won to lead the Vox raid on Bristlebane), for some raid content would be nice because it would let people other than those "competitors" see that content. People not in guilds, people in smaller guilds, etc. Again, it's about more people getting to play classic EQ and see its content.

What is the advantage to rotations over instances?

They're classic (to a debatable degree); instances very clearly aren't, as they weren't introduced until LDoN.

[Aviann]

That material got rotated because there was bigger and better material for the raid scene to introduce themselves into... We don't have that here. Also, a PUR is not a rotation. If you wanna see more, do more of that. In the meantime, stop trying to change the literal ENDGAME of our server into something it shouldn't be. Most of the people that are asking for rotations aren't asking for naggy and vox to be rotated, they're asking for ToV and bigger and better things... Its never gonna be that way, and if by some small chance it does become rotated, you can sure as hell bet that most of the playerbase that competes will find something new to get into... Something the ones asking for rotations should be doing instead.

You can't base rotations on live with rotations here when the material we have to work with is a tiny fraction of what they have on live. Bottom line.

[Aviann]

If anything, limit the number of people in each guild and let the best skilled or most dedicated take the prize. Nobody can bitch about equal measures after that... This is such an old fight, and you will never win it Loramin. Join a better guild or start using new strategies that will put you ahead.

[Maelstrom]

Damn, Kedge Keep was happenin' back in the day.

[Pyrrhica]

All Gnome PoH Raid on Saturday, February 3rd, 2001.

Live was awesome :)

[DromalPhrenia]

Right, and for ten years that guild has been the first to engage or the first to win the CotH race or the first to play whatever non-classic but as-close-as-we-can-come-to-classic competition.

I just think letting some other criteria, even a pure random roll (like the one I won to lead the Vox raid on Bristlebane), for some raid content would be nice because it would let people other than those "competitors" see that content. People not in guilds, people in smaller guilds, etc. Again, it's about more people getting to play classic EQ and see its content.

I feel like this is true for anything in Everquest though. I don't want to sit in line to get the Pained Soul for the VP key, and even if I had the camp I probably can't stay logged in long enough for it to spawn. So my options are to not go to VP, or buy the piece from someone who can manage these things. Similarly, if your guild can't compete, your options are to just not compete, or endeavor to make your guild capable of competing, or join a guild that fits the criteria of what you want.

That's not even specific to Everquest, honestly. If you want to raid in other MMOs, you need to join a guild that raids. If you want to go for the hardest raids, you need people who are pushing for the hardest content. If you want server firsts, you need to join an even more dedicated raiding guild.

The difference in my mind is that people who do not raid in a competitive raid scene are doing so because they either can not, or will not. With a rotation, people are kept out of content because they are not allowed to do it. You are ready, you are able, but it isn't your turn. The people in the former camp have the option to play better or play more; the people in the latter camp have no option.

This is true even within the raiding guilds themselves; I often choose to spend time on RL things that I consider more important than Everquest, which means I attend less raids, which means I contribute less to my guild, which means I won't get loot as quickly, won't spend time with my EQ friends as much, won't have fun playing the game Everquest as often. I have a choice in the matter.


They're classic (to a debatable degree); instances very clearly aren't, as they weren't introduced until LDoN.
If our goal is to expose the greatest number of people to those raids and that loot, arguing about classic doesn't seem relevant. The server already has several unclassic tweaks, not all of them in the interest of most fun to the players. Instances are a way of letting more people see the raid part of the game, without denying that content to existing raiders. And I disagree with your perspective that rotations such as the one in the OP qualify as classic because of the time frame we have been in Velious. On Live, the serious Raid Guilds had new content to play; p99 has no such new content.

[Muggens]

A calendar system for P99 would in my mind be for these purposes: fostering more open raids and helping mid-tier guilds coordinate so they aren't stepping on each other's toes.

Kael Arena, WTOV/NTOV farming, +6 dragons, PoH/PoF/PoG armor farms, Sky, and maybe even Naggy and Vox open raids would be great things to see on there and would foster a more community feel for the server.

Bring on the Casual Calendar

[Neno]

Why not both? With Green coming out either it or blue could switch to a calendar system while the other is the competitive server. It would also be interesting if when Green launched a 2nd server was also opened. Keep blue as it is and have 1 new server be competitive and 1 new server be calendar based.

[loramin]

Why not both? With Green coming out either it or blue could switch to a calendar system while the other is the competitive server. It would also be interesting if when Green launched a 2nd server was also opened. Keep blue as it is and have 1 new server be competitive and 1 new server be calendar based.

This! Or make non-earthquake mobs rotate or be on a calendar. Or make only certain mobs (eg. this month the server gets an open Vox raid, next month an open ToV). Or whatever, however.

The point is, it's not all or nothing, and never has been. For years now "sharing", in the most general sense, has been a force, and a positive one, on this server (open raids, Plane of Sky, rolls for stuff, etc.), while "competition" has also been a (much bigger) force.

With the new server coming I don't see why we can't keep Blue competitive while also adjusting that ratio slightly more towards the sharing end of the spectrum. Again, not for "free mobs", but so that more people can see dragons, gods, and other content they wouldn't get to see otherwise. More people getting to see more classic EQ content is a good thing in my book, and we can have that good thing without "making Blue communist".

[rezzie]

Again, not for "free mobs", but so that more people can see dragons, gods, and other content they wouldn't get to see otherwise. More people getting to see more classic EQ content is a good thing in my book, and we can have that good thing without "making Blue communist".

What exactly is preventing you, or other guilds, from zoning in to ToV and seeing the content today?

Nothing.

There isn't a zone-lock only allowing certain guilds to zone in.

With the crawl meta dragons sometimes stay up for hours now. On quakes high value targets are staying up for almost 10 hours. If you want to see the content, take some initiative and actually, you know, go to the zones and see the content. Why are you waiting for someone to hand you them?

You can claim it's not about "free mobs" all you like, but the reality is that's exactly what you're asking for. We both know if you killed the content you'd also want the loot. Or are you suggesting you just want to attend some raids to experience the content, but would be quite happy passing on all loot? If so, I'll gladly welcome you along to our next crawl as an honoured guest and you can come and experience the content.

[loramin]

What exactly is preventing you, or other guilds, from zoning in to ToV and seeing the content today?

Nothing.

There isn't a zone-lock only allowing certain guilds to zone in.

With the crawl meta dragons sometimes stay up for hours now. On quakes high value targets are staying up for almost 10 hours. If you want to see the content, take some initiative and actually, you know, go to the zones and see the content. Why are you waiting for someone to hand you them?

You can claim it's not about "free mobs" all you like, but the reality is that's exactly what you're asking for. We both know if you killed the content you'd also want the loot. Or are you suggesting you just want to attend some raids to experience the content, but would be quite happy passing on all loot? If so, I'll gladly welcome you along to our next crawl as an honoured guest and you can come and experience the content.

See it's this whole mentality of "all the mobs on the server should go to the people that are the most hardcore about playing P99's non-EQ competition games and no one else deserves to ever see a dragon" that's the problem. You're making a huge assumption there.

Again, non-classic "competition" games are great, and they're as close as we can get to classic competition on this server, but they don't have to be the only way to assign mobs on the server. And again, they already aren't: Plane of Sky has been "rotated" for years and no one complains about free ranger haste cloaks or shaman FD rings.

What's preventing many people from doing these mobs isn't their inability to play the game of EQ: it's their inability (or lack of desire) to play the competition games. You might believe that only "the deserving (ie. the most hard-core "competitors")" should ever get the joy of killing a dragon: I don't. I think the server would be better off if most mobs where competitive, but there were ways for people that didn't want to wake up to a batphone at 3am to also get their epics or see what Yelinak looks like (and maybe, maybe someday get a piece of Yelinak loot).

Again, I see everything on a spectrum. Changes like earthquakes and rooted dragons on the staff's end, and player-organized raids, player-organized rotations (sky) and player organized rolls (Scout) are all moves away from the competition end of that spectrum, or at least the "the most hardcore competitors deserve everything" end. And every last one of those things has been extremely well received by the community, so I think the server has a lot more interest in alternatives to "competition" than you realize.

[booter]

Why not both? With Green coming out either it or blue could switch to a calendar system while the other is the competitive server. It would also be interesting if when Green launched a 2nd server was also opened. Keep blue as it is and have 1 new server be competitive and 1 new server be calendar based.

[Puluin]

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://haemish.fortunecity.ws/vision.html

(Forum link is broke it seems and I'm not familiar with dredging up archived pages )

This was karana server council of guilds that worked together so everyone could experience raid content. Larger guilds would step back and watch smallet guilds make attempts and if help was needed, step in to help without expectation of loot.

This worked quite well until the 1.5 epic bottlenecks during luclin in combination with the gms being less active in enforcing PnP.

When PoP hit there became too much content for any given guild to need or even want to monopolize any given target.

Tl:Dr when people aren't selfish greedy a-holes, a cooperative server does work.

[Zal22]

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://haemish.fortunecity.ws/vision.html

(Forum link is broke it seems and I'm not familiar with dredging up archived pages )

This was karana server council of guilds that worked together so everyone could experience raid content. Larger guilds would step back and watch smallet guilds make attempts and if help was needed, step in to help without expectation of loot.

This worked quite well until the 1.5 epic bottlenecks during luclin in combination with the gms being less active in enforcing PnP.

When PoP hit there became too much content for any given guild to need or even want to monopolize any given target.

Tl:Dr when people aren't selfish greedy a-holes, a cooperative server does work.

Karana only rotated old world, everything else was ffa.

We were not a hardcore server though, so generally if you setup for a mob nobody would step on your toes and you could have multiple attempts.

1.5 in Luclin? What?

[Smolder]

http://forums.hossguild.org/showthread.php?1704-Rotation-Schedule

[Briscoe]

The marketplace is funny looking back. 4k for a Brown chitin protector, 4k for a clay guardian shield, 4k for an advisor robe:
Marketplace (https://web.archive.org/web/20001120171900/http://www.luclin.com/cgi-bin/total_inventory_view.pl?searchtype=have)

What jumps out to me about that page is the incredibly racist UGO fantasy football ad at the top: "All the talent" accompanied by a white man running the ball, followed by "without the attitude, salary or contracts" accompanied by a black man mean-mugging at the camera.

[McMike]

I played on lanystvyl and thought i was the only one to find this place.

FKoN
Flame on!

[TunaTheTroll]

I can't read it but is Coalition of Power on that schedule somewhere? That was my first EQ guild! #nostalgia

[Puluin]

Karana only rotated old world, everything else was ffa.

We were not a hardcore server though, so generally if you setup for a mob nobody would step on your toes and you could have multiple attempts.

1.5 in Luclin? What?

In hindsight i may be remembering something else from luclin, I fondly remember there being a bottleneck for something that the large guilds fought over like the raid scene on p99. I did not double check my memory...

Though I do remember having a rotation for trak, gorn, ToV and tunare.

Thanks for the correction.

[Zal22]

In hindsight i may be remembering something else from luclin, I fondly remember there being a bottleneck for something that the large guilds fought over like the raid scene on p99. I did not double check my memory...

Though I do remember having a rotation for trak, gorn, ToV and tunare.

Thanks for the correction.

It was the shards for Vex Thal key. What guild were you in?

[roks1]

I don't see conquest on that there list, could it be that this was after they were bradsploited? I see ketsui (wew) on the list as Soul assassins so i can only assume this is after cq made brad upset.