Green’s Success

[Daldaen]

I think there are two big things that need to be done prior to green launching in order to ensure it will be a success.

1. Prevent boxing on Blue and Green simultaneously.

The reason this is necessary is for two reasons.

Firstly it is a form of population control. People need to choose a server to devote their time to. This will free up over farmed content on Blue more and help deal with the limited resources on Green. It will be a win-win.

Second, it will reduce the amount of AFK barely paying attention players in groups. One of the big points of success on P99 is ensuring all players are a single player therefore they’re focusing primarily on their character. Once you start having boxing on multiple servers people in your groups quit chatting and overall play goes downhill which makes grouping less enjoyable on a server founded on the idea that players should be forced to group together to conquer content. The desire to box on both servers would be strong for many considering it was discussed to dump green onto blue at the end of the timeline, many people will be compelled to grind on both servers for their eventual wealth on Blue to increase.

If this is not done you’re going to have far too many AFK people setting up at static camps like Hierophant or Pained Soul, locking down 8+ year old content on Blue while also grinding to eventually lock it down on Green. Force people to make a choice. If you want to kill your 100th King Tormax, log off Green lose your spot in a group and kill Tormax.

2. Make the entire server No-CSR like Veeshan’s Peak was for a time.

Players on P99 try to invoke rules and involve staff in their disputes far too often. It a huge waste of staff members’ time. This would allow for players to play their own way, if you want to be a scumbag, you can be however on a new server your most valuable commodity is your reputation and it will quickly get around if you’re trying to train someone or snipe someone’s mob. Generally most of the population will respect camp checks and be civil.

The Blue server has gone through so many raid scene changes, head GM changes and all sorts of scandals which are understandable when people who devote so much time to something become invested in individual parties. Having a No-CSR server would make this a non-issue. Allow players to work out their own disputes and just focus on keeping the server clear of hackers, RMTers and Boxers.

This would also prevent the inevitable situation of people camping Limited duration content like Guises and Manastones for days on end. If people try to do that come in with a bigger group and win the DPS race.

If both of these things could be done prior to launch I think you’re looking at a very successful server where your reputation actually matters like it did in Classic EQ.

Also at some point in the future, I know it’s not feasible prior to green’s launch, but please consider switching to a more classic client from the current Titanium one. The lack of a classic client is about the last avenue of immersion that needs to be pursued to get P99 to a damn near replica of classic EverQuest.

[baakss]

I mean technically on classic the Play Nice Policy was implemented after launch, so there is some classic historical support for reduced CSR.

I dunno though. Sounds messy, and even messier for the non-hardcore.

[d3r14k]

I approve of this idea, for whatever that is worth (nothing).

I know if given the opportunity, I would be hanging out at a potential raid location on blue semi-AFK on a shaman while actively doing something else on green.

It would be great from a selfish downtime perspective, but I'd rather them not allow blue and green login at the same time from the same IP.

[Crede]

I like #1.

#2 however will lead to a shit show IMO. People will be training guise/manastone camps and it will be chaos. They’ll form friends with other trainers so they’ll still have a social outlet there if desired. Will be some mad max fury road warlord type shit. And the king neckbeard here will prob look the same irl as that OG in the movie.

The staff unclassicly made a 25 mob ae limit on blue.

The real green solution? Unclassicly remove guise/manastone.

[Keza]

2. Make the entire server No-CSR like Veeshan’s Peak was for a time.

Players on P99 try to invoke rules and involve staff in their disputes far too often. It a huge waste of staff members’ time. This would allow for players to play their own way, if you want to be a scumbag, you can be however on a new server your most valuable commodity is your reputation and it will quickly get around if you’re trying to train someone or snipe someone’s mob. Generally most of the population will respect camp checks and be civil.


Most of the pop will be civil and it's certainly a waste of the staff's time, but reputation doesn't mean shit when you're pixel hungry. I remember being repeatedly trained by a dwarf cleric who was in a big-name guild back in Kunark(blue) in KC. Mind you I had no idea wtf the guy was. Later I realized on the forums that he was more or less globally seen as a waste of life and everyone hated him. I didn't report him though, and I've long forgotten his name. Most people don't report every little thing, you said it yourself. Most people are civil. They also don't have a grudge book like some Warhammer dwarf. Civil or not training/camp stealing isn't something that was allowed on classic afaik so it doesn't make sense to make a pro-classic post and demand an anti-classic stance.

I would love to see multi-server boxing removed if possible and classic UI returned though. Classic UI would be amazing. A functional stamina system would be the biggest pro-classic change, but iirc they sadly can't make it work for whatever reason.

[Myke]

No-CSR is fine if the players have a way to deal with the scumbags, and that is pvp. If there's no pvp, people can be scumbags with impunity. Who cares if you are aware of known scumbags.. they're just going to keep doing it.

I'm not advocating green should be a pvp server. Just saying that if there's no CSR, there needs to be a way for players to deal with the offenders themselves.

[ldgo86]

Totally agree with #1. Not a fan of the potential double neck beard action.

[Ghostly]

Can we put in a system where if enough people in the zone vote Yes, an offending party will be flagged Red for 24 hours?

[Daldaen]

Play Nice Policy is too hands on for GMs to deal with every random dark boned skeleton pulled out of your camp. It was not enforced anywhere near the extent that it is on P99. Let players work things out on their own.

You have many different ways to combat players being scumbags without requiring PvP. Reputation does matter on a new server. People may continue doing scummy things but that will lead to them being blacklisted from many services like ports and rezzed, groups and guilds. There may be a scumbag guild that forms to take in all these scumlords which will then be combatted by every other guild because they don’t want to see the scumlords win dragons.

Without this the launch of the server will be an avalanche of petitions about Emperor Crush and Lord Pickclaw Kill steals and people taking other people’s decaying skeletons with cracked staves. It would be a monumental waste of time to try to sort through all of these disputes. Let people just play the game without having to check the rulebook about which mobs they can camp near and how long their stopwatch has to show before they can take a spawned mob.

[jolanar]

Definitely agree with #1. Last thing we need is people afk camping everything on blue while leveling on green.

[Optti]

I agree that boxing across servers, or whatever we are calling it, should not be allowed in an effort to make more relevant content accessible to a larger number of players.

I also agree that having to chose and invest time on a single character at a time is congruent with the spirit of p99.

[Optti]

I would hate to see one group of persons locking down valuable content simultaneously on both servers. That is my opinion.

[honeybee12874]

Totally agree with #1

I think that if you are playing (on either server) you should be focused on your character and what you are doing. (Besides the obvious breaks to eat, bio, etc.)

Also - chatty groups are the best! Makes the grind fly by so much easier, and much more enjoyable overall.

[Erati]

just stopped by to post in a Dald thread

[Jibartik]

#2 is crazy talk

[Evia]

I like idea #1

I like the reasoning behind idea #2 but I think it'll end up breeding a new kind of griefing. You gotta have some police presence.

[Twochain]

I think there are two big things that need to be done prior to green launching in order to ensure it will be a success.

1. Prevent boxing on Blue and Green simultaneously.

The reason this is necessary is for two reasons.

Firstly it is a form of population control. People need to choose a server to devote their time to. This will free up over farmed content on Blue more and help deal with the limited resources on Green. It will be a win-win.

Second, it will reduce the amount of AFK barely paying attention players in groups. One of the big points of success on P99 is ensuring all players are a single player therefore they’re focusing primarily on their character. Once you start having boxing on multiple servers people in your groups quit chatting and overall play goes downhill which makes grouping less enjoyable on a server founded on the idea that players should be forced to group together to conquer content. The desire to box on both servers would be strong for many considering it was discussed to dump green onto blue at the end of the timeline, many people will be compelled to grind on both servers for their eventual wealth on Blue to increase.

If this is not done you’re going to have far too many AFK people setting up at static camps like Hierophant or Pained Soul, locking down 8+ year old content on Blue while also grinding to eventually lock it down on Green. Force people to make a choice. If you want to kill your 100th King Tormax, log off Green lose your spot in a group and kill Tormax.

2. Make the entire server No-CSR like Veeshan’s Peak was for a time.

Players on P99 try to invoke rules and involve staff in their disputes far too often. It a huge waste of staff members’ time. This would allow for players to play their own way, if you want to be a scumbag, you can be however on a new server your most valuable commodity is your reputation and it will quickly get around if you’re trying to train someone or snipe someone’s mob. Generally most of the population will respect camp checks and be civil.

The Blue server has gone through so many raid scene changes, head GM changes and all sorts of scandals which are understandable when people who devote so much time to something become invested in individual parties. Having a No-CSR server would make this a non-issue. Allow players to work out their own disputes and just focus on keeping the server clear of hackers, RMTers and Boxers.

This would also prevent the inevitable situation of people camping Limited duration content like Guises and Manastones for days on end. If people try to do that come in with a bigger group and win the DPS race.

If both of these things could be done prior to launch I think you’re looking at a very successful server where your reputation actually matters like it did in Classic EQ.

Also at some point in the future, I know it’s not feasible prior to green’s launch, but please consider switching to a more classic client from the current Titanium one. The lack of a classic client is about the last avenue of immersion that needs to be pursued to get P99 to a damn near replica of classic EverQuest.

nah to both


#1 - This would hurt both server's population, and would likely lead to early abandonment of green by a lot of people. A lot of people forget what it's like to level with fine steel short swords in your 20's. It's going to be such a grind. And playing a caster in classic EQ is... well. You sit on your ass. A LOT. There's NOBODY handing out clarity, potg, and your mana pool is low.

#2 - Fuck that. Maybe a no-csr RED server would be fun... or even no-csr blue. But non-csr green would be a fucking nightmare. Running across the world unsowed because someone wanted your camp? Yeah, fuck that. There's already going to be an army of neck beards trying to lock down camps. Shit ain't going to be funny when your group finally gets the manastone camp, and a level 1 rogue trains the shit out of you. Every. Single. Time. Maybe playing on a server like that would actually be fun (really) but that's not what I want from my Green experience.

[Ravager]

I like #1.

#2 however will lead to a shit show IMO. People will be training guise/manastone camps and it will be chaos. They’ll form friends with other trainers so they’ll still have a social outlet there if desired. Will be some mad max fury road warlord type shit. And the king neckbeard here will prob look the same irl as that OG in the movie.

The staff unclassicly made a 25 mob ae limit on blue.

The real green solution? Unclassicly remove guise/manastone.
There won't be a mob up in this to be trained.

[aaezil]

Sounds like daldaen wants 2 things here...

1 less people contesting his guise/manastones

2 being able to train people out of his guise/manastone area

[Jibartik]

Sounds like daldaen wants 2 things here...

1 less people contesting his guise/manastones

2 being able to train people out of his guise/manastone area

lol

[Fifield]

Green will be successful regardless of either of these options. Nothing will stop the shit show thats going to go down on that server.

You guys go hard and get the fuck outa the starting zones, i'll make my little necro a week after launch when its cooled down =D

ps. hi dald

[Halfcell]

Number 1 is fine, number 2 is dumb AF. I wasn't there for them, but after hearing the stories from friends that lived through the VP train years in TMO and IB, it's the perfect way to destroy green in an instant. All night trains, impossible to engage anything cleanly, until eventually one side is just too exhausted to continue? If you think that wont happen again, you are delusional. People intentionally train now out of spite and irritation, imagine if they didn't get suspended for a week? It would never stop.

[Mead]

why was daldaen unbanned

[Nuggie]

I ate popcorn for the VP trains. It was stupid. It created a lot of bad blood. It wasn't fun. A very small group of people can keep a very large group of people stalled out.

@OP, Dald... I'm usually onboard with what is on your mind, but this is a bit far out there. I'm not following your train of thought. I would prefer a new PvP server to this, which has been proven not to work.

[Smackahoe]

Why would GM's ban RMT? That's how they make money from bigger guild neckbeards

[Tecmos Deception]

Not. Classic.

Shame on you, Dald.

[kotton05]

why was daldaen unbanned

not classic

[Duckwalk]

LOL Anyone notice that so far the only person to directly disagree with OP proposal aimed at limiting neckbeard monopolizing camps on both servers simultaneously is tagged...<Aftermath>

[Tecmos Deception]

LOL Anyone notice that so far the only person to directly disagree with OP proposal aimed at limiting neckbeard monopolizing camps on both servers simultaneously is tagged...<Aftermath>

Seems pretty irrelevant to me. I can't imagine blue will be much more than a ghost town once green is out, assuming green actually releases as a restart of blue but with classic patch timeline.

[Daldaen]

Not. Classic.

Shame on you, Dald.

Be honest. How many times did you hear about a GM resolving a camp dispute on Live. I know I never had contact with any GM until probably OoW when a quest bugged. And I’d never heard of anyone having interactions with GMs prior to this excluding GM events. If be willing to bet this isn’t the common experience. People just didn’t involve GMs in their disputes frequently.

It’s far more commonplace on P99 because nerds love petitionquest too much. I’ve seen people use it for the most petty of camp disputes in unrest and Mistmoore when they feel someone pulls a few trash mobs from their area. In the raid scene you have about 30 rules of which are the creation of 30 imaginary lines you cannot have more than 2 people past otherwise you are suspended for killing a mob.

It’s just too much going on and should be simplified. The staff is keen on letting people compete with the 16 hour variance Windows. Let them truly compete by being the biggest neckbeards. If a guild wants to farm fire giants and sit in Nagafen’s lair for 16 hours have fun. This is no more dumb than having groups at entrance ready to run up and engage a dragon. If someone gets tired of the biggest neckbeards poopsocking for hours on end you can train them. If this person regularly is a trainer they can get shuned or you can retaliate in kind when they’re EXPing.

[Jibartik]

dude just say 'go to p99 wiki Camp_Rules' it says plain as day like every scenario you can encounter in this game what the ruling will be.

there problem is solved.

[fastboy21]

There is a major difference between not having a PNP enforced by the staff, and using the 10-year mix of case law and player agreements that coalesced on blue and unleashing it on green.

There should be a PNP. Most of everything else should be allowed to develop on its own on Green as part of the life of the server.

It will lead to arguments and trains and camp stealing as the community develops standards of behavior...some of which will be quickly the same as on blue, but some will develop differently. IMO, this is part of the fun of a new server community.

You also have to realize that the way things are now on blue are not how they were on blue during vanilla. There are some good reasons for this, which means it shouldn't be assumed that every late-velious blue rule makes sense to use on a fresh vanilla green server.

[Lowlife]

turn the pvp on, turn pnp off

[Nexii]

Way too many custom rules on blue, way too much GM involvement I agree. It's made P99 a lot worse than it could be. But no CSR is just as bad and probably worse as a server ages as people can use burner accounts to grief.

IMO they just need a few simple PNP rules, no ninjalooting, no training, no harassing. All the custom raid rules, do away with them. Let guilds camp out on raid targets. Ironically this would help the casual guilds more than the current ruleset

[loramin]

IMO they just need a few simple PNP rules, no ninjalooting, no training, no harassing. All the custom raid rules, do away with them.

The problem is, it's a complex game. You start with "No KSing" and wind up at http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp Rules.