Green/Red99

[Lowlife]

As this is not PvPcentric discussion but rather a server discussion I felt it best to be posted here.

From the Green Server page on the Project 1999 Wiki

"Blue = Beta
In many ways the Blue server can be thought of as being like a Beta Server for the Green Server. Thanks to Blue anything that the developers code is likely to be tested by hundreds, if not thousands of different players. However, precisely because it serves this purpose, Blue isn't a true realization of the Project's goal."

So if Blue=Beta I'd assert Red is definitely a beta as well. As a teams server doesn't seem to be on the table anytime soon will the red server receive the same opportunity to "recycle" as blue? Given the demand for Green seems to be massive I personally don't think the additional server giving players more options would be "wasteful".

How many of you would be interested in a fresh "Green"PvP server launching along side Green? Perhaps we can get some commentary from the staff on this regard.

[Osprey39]

As this is not PvPcentric discussion but rather a server discussion I felt it best to be posted here.

From the Green Server page on the Project 1999 Wiki

"Blue = Beta
In many ways the Blue server can be thought of as being like a Beta Server for the Green Server. Thanks to Blue anything that the developers code is likely to be tested by hundreds, if not thousands of different players. However, precisely because it serves this purpose, Blue isn't a true realization of the Project's goal."

So if Blue=Beta I'd assert Red is definitely a beta as well. As a teams server doesn't seem to be on the table anytime soon will the red server receive the same opportunity to "recycle" as blue? Given the demand for Green seems to be massive I personally don't think the additional server giving players more options would be "wasteful".

How many of you would be interested in a fresh "Green"PvP server launching along side Green? Perhaps we can get some commentary from the staff on this regard.

At this point, I've put enough time into my characters on blue that I'm really not that keen on switching to green unless my guild goes there en masse.

That said, if they made a red teams server like SZ, I'd play there exclusively.

[daxchunjae1912]

Somebody mentioned in ec that item links for auctioning wasn’t classic either. A lot of us want to know if this means we have to type out every single stat for items on green? I suppose that was the original classic way of doing it, if anyone knows thx in advance.

[Lowlife]

At this point, I've put enough time into my characters on blue that I'm really not that keen on switching to green unless my guild goes there en masse.

That said, if they made a red teams server like SZ, I'd play there exclusively.

Oh I agree, 100%, and I think there is a demand for a hardcoded team based server with that said I'm trying not to get sidetracked into that discussion and want to stick with a Recycle Red server theme, as the current 2 Project 1999 servers both received the same expansion and patch cycle, I don't think it is out of the question that they both receive a recycle..cycle.

I, personally, believe a recycled red would have a significantly higher population than the current red and could provide some population overflow from green if launched at the same time. I think the success of the recycle model is going to be pretty huge, especially if done a few months after the launch of classic WoW, and giving that demand more options is never a bad idea.

[Nuggie]

Somebody mentioned in ec that item links for auctioning wasn’t classic either. A lot of us want to know if this means we have to type out every single stat for items on green? I suppose that was the original classic way of doing it, if anyone knows thx in advance.

If you want to be ultra classic, yes. But unless nilbog takes us back to vanilla client I think taking item links away isn't going to happen.

[Lowlife]

Some classic things are better left to memory, item typing while selling being one of them.

[Toomuch]

Sullon was crazy, but nothing compared to it as far as the "epic" feeling of accomplishing something big there.

I'd love it if they opened a new Sullon-style server. They opened it later than the other PvP servers too, so in a way, this kind of would fit the whole "re-create how it was done back then" vibe too.

[shoestring]

how about that classic year 2006 era client

For those who have never experienced the online world of EverQuest, the Titanium Edition includes the classic fantasy game as well as The Ruins of Kunark, The Scars of Velious, The Shadows of Luclin, The Planes of Power, The Legacy of Ykesha, The Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Gates of Discord, Dragons of Norrath, Omens of War, and Depths of Darkhollow.

pretty much the same as 2001 velious client right?

[Lowlife]

Sullon was crazy, but nothing compared to it as far as the "epic" feeling of accomplishing something big there.

I'd love it if they opened a new Sullon-style server. They opened it later than the other PvP servers too, so in a way, this kind of would fit the whole "re-create how it was done back then" vibe too.

Was cross teaming a thing on SZ? I'd rather teams be hard coded or maybe even iplocked

[Osprey39]

Was cross teaming a thing on SZ? I'd rather teams be hard coded or maybe even iplocked

No, as I recall it was not. The three teams could definitely not group together as I remember I was always very nervous going to HHK to buy pet spells on my Good Team chanter because it was a Neutral Team stronghold. I could illusion to human and fool them visually but I frequently got tells asking if I wanted to group while there and I knew if they tried to invite me it would fail and the jig would be up.

I'm also pretty certain you could not form guilds with members from other teams either so that pretty much eliminated any kind of cross teaming.

[Fammaden]

Some classic things are better left to memory, PVP servers being one of them.

[Squire]

No, as I recall it was not. The three teams could definitely not group together as I remember I was always very nervous going to HHK to buy pet spells on my Good Team chanter because it was a Neutral Team stronghold. I could illusion to human and fool them visually but I frequently got tells asking if I wanted to group while there and I knew if they tried to invite me it would fail and the jig would be up.

I'm also pretty certain you could not form guilds with members from other teams either so that pretty much eliminated any kind of cross teaming.

That's pretty BA. 3 factions if definitely the way to go imho. As long as u can't heal/buff etc people from other factions, turn common tounge off etc

[walfreyydo]

The issue with teams pvp is that the "Dark" team never gets access to Druids, Bards or Rangers (ie: Track). How essential those three classes are to end-game progression, I am not 100% sure, but it seems that lacking Track in any form can be a huge problem, not to mention the additional benefits that Druids and Bards bring (buffs/songs).

On Tallon Zek a guild called "Pandemonium" decided to start breaking the team-based rules of the server and start a cross team guild for the ultimate goal of progression (and server domination). This resulted in all sorts of problems from OOR healers to a large gulf in gearing of their characters vs everyone else as they pushed through end-game faster than any other guild (by far).

In order to offset this threat and dominance, other guilds had to follow suit.

This would be my main concern for any future teams server - when one group decides to ignore the rules and cheat the system. Perhaps the development team can find a suitable workaround that can anticipate these sorts of issues.

Me personally, I am in favor of teams PvP as long as these issues can be addressed and anticipated appropriately.

Also, once they figure that out will need to figure out how to keep team Human from dominating the world. The best system is probably 2 teams (light vs dark) IMO - and this was essentially how it was on TZ, with some rare exceptions for pure race, pvp focused guilds (Human only, elf only).

[Lowlife]

The issue with teams pvp is that the "Dark" team never gets access to Druids, Bards or Rangers (ie: Track). How essential those three classes are to end-game progression, I am not 100% sure, but it seems that lacking Track in any form can be a huge problem, not to mention the additional benefits that Druids and Bards bring (buffs/songs).

On Tallon Zek a guild called "Pandemonium" decided to start breaking the team-based rules of the server and start a cross team guild for the ultimate goal of progression (and server domination). This resulted in all sorts of problems from OOR healers to a large gulf in gearing of their characters vs everyone else as they pushed through end-game faster than any other guild (by far).

In order to offset this threat and dominance, other guilds had to follow suit.

This would be my main concern for any future teams server - when one group decides to ignore the rules and cheat the system. Perhaps the development team can find a suitable workaround that can anticipate these sorts of issues.

Me personally, I am in favor of teams PvP as long as these issues can be addressed and anticipated appropriately.

Also, once they figure that out will need to figure out how to keep team Human from dominating the world. The best system is probably 2 teams (light vs dark) IMO - and this was essentially how it was on TZ, with some rare exceptions for pure race, pvp focused guilds (Human only, elf only).

It would be hard coded rather than unofficial "rules" to follow.

[Pootle]

Also, once they figure that out will need to figure out how to keep team Human from dominating the world. The best system is probably 2 teams (light vs dark) IMO - and this was essentially how it was on TZ, with some rare exceptions for pure race, pvp focused guilds (Human only, elf only).

i used to play on VallonZek, was 4 team, but while there were some pure team guilds, the majority of the server was Light-v-Dark.

Good times.

[indiscriminate_hater]

As this is not PvPcentric discussion but rather a server discussion I felt it best to be posted here.

From the Green Server page on the Project 1999 Wiki

"Blue = Beta
In many ways the Blue server can be thought of as being like a Beta Server for the Green Server. Thanks to Blue anything that the developers code is likely to be tested by hundreds, if not thousands of different players. However, precisely because it serves this purpose, Blue isn't a true realization of the Project's goal."

So if Blue=Beta I'd assert Red is definitely a beta as well. As a teams server doesn't seem to be on the table anytime soon will the red server receive the same opportunity to "recycle" as blue? Given the demand for Green seems to be massive I personally don't think the additional server giving players more options would be "wasteful".

How many of you would be interested in a fresh "Green"PvP server launching along side Green? Perhaps we can get some commentary from the staff on this regard.

blue = beta
red = alpha

or so I've heard

[Squire]

blue = beta
red = alpha

or so I've heard

time2recycle red then fam

[Toomuch]

Cross teaming was not possible. The only way to buff/heal someone on another team was using group/ae buffs, AND dueling them (which was best to do in a non-pvp zone, like the bazaar, but could be done elsewhere if you wanted, it just nearly never happened, for obvious reasons). And even with that, the only "cross team" buffs that people ever really did was like KEI or POTG or some-such.

Now, it actually goes deeper than that, because of something else that WAS allowed - training.

Technically, training was only allowed against other teams, but competition was EXTREMELY fierce, and drama also ran high on a no-rules server, so even the weakest team (the "Good" team) ended up training themselves from time to time. This wouldn't have been all that bad if GM's actually hadn't given up on enforcing rules, because same team training would have been so short-lived it wouldn't be worth it, but without rule enforcement, and no way to root/snare/hurt your own team, it was just devastating.

There were also notorious hackers that did it for years and never got banned. I'm looking at YOU, Fetto and Gowenna (neutral team), your names are burned into my soul. I forgot the names of your 2x super-harmtouch evil toons, but at that point it was just more of the same from another angle, and faster, so whatever. Rant aside, people would instantly warp to you in a zone and manaburn/superharmtouch and then warp out, then rinse/repeat when the disc/ability was back up. You could petition them 10,000 times, and it didn't matter, almost nobody did anything about it, except for a few GM's who picked teams to <3 more than others (one certain GM was named Jamlamin - see sig below from a raid where he somehow got charmed, and I did not hesitate to Trueshot). I'm ranting again...

My point is, Sullon ruleset was amazing, we just needed a fair bit more rule enforcement, and the exact anti-hacking enforcement that P99 has already come up with and uses. And people have been clamoring for a pvp reset for ever...

My biggest gripe with Sullon was that they said they were going to try to do things to help the outnumbered & outmatched teams, and never did. You could loot coin and an "Insignia of (Name_of_Diety)" if the person you killed was within +-5 levels of you, and the idea was that the lowest population/progression team would get some really useful rewards and/or buff pots (some kind of "throw me a bone here" bonus), the middle population/progression team would get middle tier rewards, and the highest population/progression team would get lowest tier rewards. The only thing they ever implemented was summon corpse pots, across the board. Useful, yes, but it basically paid to jump on the bandwagon team. Lots of people jumped ship to do it, it was lame.

side note: they also had things coded so your account could only be aligned with 1 team, so to switch teams, you really had to go all in.

My next biggest gripe could be mitigated with a certain implementation of that reward system mentioned earlier. Due to the teams being diety restricted, the good and neutral teams had no Necromancers (no twitches or DMF) or SK's (not that big of a deal for pve, but SK's helped win pvp fights, or even derail trains to raids, VERY easily. Think: "here comes Mrmonk with 50 giants! Harmer and Badtouch, go take care of him!" and 2 button presses later, Mrmonk is "down and coined" to use the SZ terminology). So to slightly compensate, one of the random rewards for PVP insignias could be DMF pots, or possibly even single cast twitch pots, maybe only usable by Clerics, or maybe class specific mana pots, or something along those lines. And conversely, the evil team did not have any Paladins, Rangers, or Druids, and there could be pvp rewards for those classes' spells as well. IMO, this kind of thing makes Sullon ruleset so doable and desirable that it's just incredibly sad to not see it happen.

Edit: contrary to what was said above, Evil team did in fact have access to bards. There were a couple infamous ones on Sullon Zek - Pino comes to mind, and so does Nancy (male character), Jennifer (also male character, welcome to pvp servers), Darksong, Speedd (Kirban's bard when Kirban got banned for hacking, temporarily only somehow), and more.

[pink grapefruit]

i made this post on red forums but it's relevant so you guys paste

By now we know the teams server is probably never going to happen, but with the excitement over green happening I'm feeling nerdy, nostalgic, and a tiny bit hopeful. Maybe instead of a server wipe, red could just be ended for good. And then maybe a brand new server could start up? Anyway I want to nerd out a little and imagine how teams could work.

Deity based is cool af, and I like the SZ teams but it's kinda lame that classes are missing from all the teams: evils lack druid, paladiin, ranger; and goods/neuts lack necro, SK.

Fix:
Human and half elf druids/paladins/rangers can now worship Rallos Zek
Erudite, gnome, and human SKs/necros can now worship Sol Ro
Erudite, gnome, and human SKs/necros can now worship Quellious

This bends the lore a bit, particularly the peace-loving SKs; but a lot of things never made sense in the lore (like evil and good chars grouping together at all) and this leaves lore intact as much as possible while still allowing balance.

Also since evil team is OP, goods and neuts should be softcoded together like VZ teams, allowing them to group/guild together but still pvp each other. And some kinda IP block thing preventing people from creating chars on other factions would be necessary, if even possible.

*dreams nerdily*

[Jibartik]

I predict if green99 is extremely popular, purple99 will shortly follow. Or at the latest be what green99 becomes after it is complete, and then again and again. again and again and again.

[Lowlife]

I predict if green99 is extremely popular, purple99 will shortly follow. Or at the latest be what green99 becomes after it is complete, and then again and again. again and again and again.

purple99 is that what we're calling this? lol

[Osprey39]

Edit: contrary to what was said above, Evil team did in fact have access to bards. There were a couple infamous ones on Sullon Zek - Pino comes to mind, and so does Nancy (male character), Jennifer (also male character, welcome to pvp servers), Darksong, Speedd (Kirban's bard when Kirban got banned for hacking, temporarily only somehow), and more.

Kirban, talk about the king of the neckbeards, lol.

Of those others, I think Jennifer was the one that was de-leveled all to hell and went around killing noobs all day that couldn't hit him for shit because his defense skill was so high. Dorksong was pretty much the same, a bottom feeder that fought people much lower level than himself. The name Nancy rings a bell but I don't recall why but probably for the same reason.

[Thomacles]

There is an enormous amount of work to set up a server. There is even more work involved setting up a PvP server. Their hands will be full enough working to get a green server going.

I highly doubt there will be any time to invest into a server that will have less than 50 people total.

But you can keep dreaming.

[Lowlife]

There is an enormous amount of work to set up a server. There is even more work involved setting up a PvP server. Their hands will be full enough working to get a green server going.

I highly doubt there will be any time to invest into a server that will have less than 50 people total.

But you can keep dreaming.

there is more factors to reds population issues than you seem to be aware of.

red had 500+ people at launch, i think a fresh pvp server where people could compete for guises and manastones could see similar numbers. red had double the pvp level range at launch and a number of other quality of life issues that have since been implemented which i think could contribute to greater retention. and hopefully this time a former staff member implicated in RMT doesnt ban entire guilds and turn the server into a one guild fest just as the server begins to raid dragons.

[Osprey39]

There is an enormous amount of work to set up a server. There is even more work involved setting up a PvP server. Their hands will be full enough working to get a green server going.

I highly doubt there will be any time to invest into a server that will have less than 50 people total.

But you can keep dreaming.

You're underestimating how many would play on it based just on red's current pop (which you still understated.) There's plenty of people like myself that are currently on blue but would switch if there was a pvp teams server. Pvp servers will never be as popular as pve but they can still be pretty popular when done right.

[walfreyydo]

You're underestimating how many would play on it based just on red's current pop (which you still understated.) There's plenty of people like myself that are currently on blue but would switch if there was a pvp teams server. Pvp servers will never be as popular as pve but they can still be pretty popular when done right.

I am one of those people

[Cen]

No, as I recall it was not. The three teams could definitely not group together as I remember I was always very nervous going to HHK to buy pet spells on my Good Team chanter because it was a Neutral Team stronghold. I could illusion to human and fool them visually but I frequently got tells asking if I wanted to group while there and I knew if they tried to invite me it would fail and the jig would be up.

I'm also pretty certain you could not form guilds with members from other teams either so that pretty much eliminated any kind of cross teaming.

This is all correct. Go go good team! (I was flowers of happiness)

[Zekayy]

Somebody mentioned in ec that item links for auctioning wasn’t classic either. A lot of us want to know if this means we have to type out every single stat for items on green? I suppose that was the original classic way of doing it, if anyone knows thx in advance.

I think this has to do more with the client side of things that p99 is using

[Keza]

there is more factors to reds population issues than you seem to be aware of.

red had 500+ people at launch

Red's population was 500 at launch and then became 50 for the same reason you played 'x' game for 20 minutes before uninstalling it. Not because it was good and then became bad, but because it was shit and only a few shitbrained people liked it. I actually don't have anything against a pvp server, despite my belief that 'play red' posters are braindead. I just don't think it's feasible as EQ is horribly imbalanced even as a PvE game, let alone as a *FFA PvP game.

In other words this is another 'play red' thread and I believe I've made my beliefs clear.

A teams server is something else entirely which I would like to see, even if unclassic. I'd at least give it a go, although it might eventually be shit, it wouldn't be as predictable - and easily avoidable - as the catastrophe that is 'red'.

[Jimjam]

Red had hundreds of players in Kunark.

Maybe I am seeing causation where there is only correlation, but the more thinly spread the playerbase, and the higher the potential disparity in equipment, the more that is at stake in each encounter, the less people are interested in playing a pvp version of Everquest.

PvP works as a fun afterthought, not as something that defines the server.

[Vexenu]

People always talk about how EQ is not a game designed with PvP in mind, and yet if you ask anyone on Blue who also played on TZ/VZ/SZ back in the day they will tell you flat out that EQ with Teams PvP is by far the better and more memorable experience. I literally have not met a single person who actually has a lot of time on a Teams server and a Blue server (and who can therefore make a fair comparison) say that Blue EQ is more fun. Not a single one.

Red even at its best was far inferior to the Teams servers and its low population isn't a good argument against a potential p1999 Teams server. The great irony of it is that most of the diehard Blue players would probably enjoy a Teams server more than Blue anyway, because the things they like about Blue EQ (socializing, guild camaraderie, acquiring meaningful loot, competition between guilds) are greatly amplified on a Teams server by necessity. A Teams server would do more to breathe new life into this project than anything else by far. And it could be done with a ruleset that was 95%+ classic (meaning more classic than current Blue).

[Kirdan]

+1 to SZ ruleset, SZ was amazing (and required no customer support staff!)

[Thomacles]

Except what inevitably happens is that one team surges in numbers, and the whole thing turns into a gang mentality. With one side always winning, and the other always losing, interest in continuing fades fast.

WoW has encountered this now for several years. Just look at the imbalance with Hoarde vs. Alliance. They have tried MANY diff things to try to balance it out, and none so far have worked. Thats why they kinda killed off the PvP seasons that used to occur years ago.

PvP in EQ was NEVER popular. Not on live, not on p99. Just because Red USED to have more players than now, that didn't make it popular. The numbers were never even close.

There simply isn't enough interest in it to warrant the vast resources to provide it.

Quit kicking a dead horse. That horse died long, long ago.

[port9001]

In my opinion, the flaw of EQ PvP is it's a game that allows for vastly increased power through twinking / deleveling / MQing / etc. It's really hard to convince people to keep playing when every popular grouping zone gets routinely shut down by unkillable twinks. I'm sure it's extremely fun for the twinks to take on whole groups of people with little risk but for the new players it ends up just not being worth the time. It's not healthy for 9 out of 10 people to quit because they can't make progress in early zones.

I don't really know if you CAN solve this since it's pretty fundamental to how EQ operates. Guess you could make everything NODROP but I doubt that'd be well received.

For what it's worth I had a lot of fun on live on Tallon Zek (Teams PVP). At least there you often had counter twinks around from your own team so there was at least a chance.

[Osprey39]

Except what inevitably happens is that one team surges in numbers, and the whole thing turns into a gang mentality. With one side always winning, and the other always losing, interest in continuing fades fast.

WoW has encountered this now for several years. Just look at the imbalance with Hoarde vs. Alliance. They have tried MANY diff things to try to balance it out, and none so far have worked. Thats why they kinda killed off the PvP seasons that used to occur years ago.

PvP in EQ was NEVER popular. Not on live, not on p99. Just because Red USED to have more players than now, that didn't make it popular. The numbers were never even close.

There simply isn't enough interest in it to warrant the vast resources to provide it.

Quit kicking a dead horse. That horse died long, long ago.

Man, where to start with this post. Well first off, WoW pvp has just about zero in common with EQ pvp but I'll address what you said anyway. It's apples and oranges. WoW pvp had 2 teams whereas EQ team servers had 4 (VZ and TZ) or 3 (SZ). While it's true that the Good team was a little undermanned on SZ, things were pretty even on VZ. I never played on TZ so I can't speak for that one but I've heard it was pretty even too.

On to your second thing you were factually incorrect about, PvP seasons in WoW. I can only assume you are referring to arena seasons here as that's the only thing they had seasons for. You imply that Blizzard "kinda killed off the PvP seasons that used to occur years ago" due to population imbalances between Horde and Alliance. Well first of all, when I last played WoW about a year ago, arena seasons were alive and well. Unless this murder occurred sometime since then, which I doubt, they are still alive and well. Secondly, population imbalance has exactly jack squat to do with arena. It is possible and quite common to have a Horde vs. Horde arena match or Alliance vs. Alliance.

Lastly, in answer to your last factually incorrect statement which is that PvP servers were not popular on live. When I started playing on EQ around the time Kunark launched, I started on VZ. Back then, they showed the actual population of servers on the select screen and VZ and TZ were always up around 1500 and I want to say RZ would peak out about 1200. They weren't the most populated servers but they weren't the least either. They were kind of middle of the pack. I started on Sullon after Luclin came out and even though the server had been up and running for awhile, it was still very busy. Almost every zone had people in them. So yeah, pvp servers were popular in live. They all had healthy player populations.

I will wrap this up with this. Who died and put you in charge of deciding what does and doesn't warrant use of resources? What difference does it make to you if they make a pvp teams server? It's not like it would take anything away from your experience on the pve servers.

[Osprey39]

In my opinion, the flaw of EQ PvP is it's a game that allows for vastly increased power through twinking / deleveling / MQing / etc. It's really hard to convince people to keep playing when every popular grouping zone gets routinely shut down by unkillable twinks. I'm sure it's extremely fun for the twinks to take on whole groups of people with little risk but for the new players it ends up just not being worth the time. It's not healthy for 9 out of 10 people to quit because they can't make progress in early zones.

I don't really know if you CAN solve this since it's pretty fundamental to how EQ operates. Guess you could make everything NODROP but I doubt that'd be well received.

For what it's worth I had a lot of fun on live on Tallon Zek (Teams PVP). At least there you often had counter twinks around from your own team so there was at least a chance.

EQ pvp is full of flaws, there's no doubt about that. I think all of us that played on team servers will testify however that despite the flaws, it was fun and exciting. The more you have to lose, the higher the stakes are, then the more tense and exciting each fight is.

[Cen]

I only played PvP servers and only up to luclin. All four of them were amazing. I only played on PVE but it never stuck. I never felt like PVP was his imbalanced more problematic is some people seem to think. I felt like every class had something they could do well even if there were more PVE focused

[port9001]

I only played PvP servers and only up to luclin. All four of them were amazing. I only played on PVE but it never stuck. I never felt like PVP was his imbalanced more problematic is some people seem to think. I felt like every class had something they could do well even if there were more PVE focused

People naturally gravitated towards the classes that could hold their own in PVP. It is somewhat of a self correcting problem. Itemization for melees helped a lot later on too.

[pink grapefruit]

Playing VZ was literally the most fun I've ever had in a video game. EQ pvp was not at all balanced, which was fine really. It's not like classes are balanced in pve either, with warriors able to solo on par with shaman or whatever. But the pvp aspect of the game really heightened the community aspect, with certain players and alliances of guilds being KoS to others. When x guild was around you knew you had some allies in the zone to xp with or help you fight off others, and when y guild was around you knew you had to watch your back. As you got to higher levels and it came time to choose a guild, you were really deciding what role you wanted to play in the intricate scene of server politics. I've heard this happened on RZ too, with the whole PK vs anti-PK thing.

It created incentive to RP, and I can't even imagine how dull RP would have been on blue servers. When I play blue99 the game feels very watered down from what I remember back on VZ. On blue it doesn't really matter who you interact with, as you have no enemies or allies to assist you against said enemies. I really miss the days of /guidstating every new player to enter a zone to try to figure out if they were friendly or not. PvP really makes you more interested in the in-game community and other players you meet. On blue you're so limited in the ways you interact with other players that it makes most of the people you run across largely irrelevant.

I'll never understand why bluebies largely don't want to play on red, and it makes me kinda sad to think that most people who have nostalgic feelings about this game never got to fully realize the community aspects that we pvp players did.

[Squire]

idk why people think cloning existing servers is so much more laborious or resource consuming when pvp is enabled, nor do i get why said people believe they are the arbiter of what gets said resources.

there is a demand for a teams server, i dont think thats lost on anyone in this thread, but idk if thats on the table atm, i mean how long has the discord server beta been on the front page?

[Vexenu]

People naturally gravitated towards the classes that could hold their own in PVP. It is somewhat of a self correcting problem. Itemization for melees helped a lot later on too.
It was sort of a happy accident with EQ class balance that the weakest classes from a PvE perspective (Wiz, SK, Ranger, Pally, Druid) are some of the strongest/most versatile PvP classes. This was just another benefit of playing on the Teams servers that is lost on Blue players. Every class brought something to the table at all times, because even if they were a weaker PvE class (say grinding XP with a Wiz in group) you appreciated having them there knowing PvP could break out unexpectedly and you'd have them in your corner.