How Are Classes Different in Vanilla?

[Tr4c3r]

I have never played EverQuest before Kunark and am wondering how each class is different in the base version of the game. I am very excited to play the game in a way I have never experienced.

I am currently leaning towards Druid or Monk.

[bodenn]

Casters will be more powerful in comparison to melee than they are now due to the lack of gear.

Pet classes will really rock.

Healing will be harder because everyone will have lower HP pools and less AC.

No clarity and no PTOG.

Its more funner

[Cen]

Hybrids will cast their two spells per manabar.

[Vexenu]

In general, INT casters are stronger (pet casters especially), Priests slightly weaker/the same, pure melee are much weaker and hybrids are more useful. In greater detail:

Priests:

Shaman - Weaker. No Fungi, no epic, no Torpor. Slow is still nice but much less needed at < 50 content. Mostly just buffs and heals. Can solo decently with their pet and DoTs, but are a far cry from the solo monster they become in Kunark.

Cleric - About the same. They lose the clickie rez epic, but maintain a monopoly on CH and a 90% XP rez. Always wanted in groups and raids and can solo decently with undead nukes.

Druid - About the same. Definitely worse off than they are in Velious, but probably a little better than they were in Kunark. They are the premier generalist caster and casual-friendly class. There will be plenty of Druids running around.

Casters:

Wizard - Stronger. Wizard DPS is awful when compared to melees using Kunark and Velious twink weapons, but is a lot more attractive when melees are using 6/30 weapons into their 30s. Their snare, root, stuns, big nukes and evac make them decent group members in dungeons. They remain the only ticket to Sky and Hate in an era when those are two of the best games in town. Ice Comet is legitimately awesome at this point in the timeline.

Magician - Much stronger. Mage pets are absolutely insane DPS in this era. No other class comes close. They also require basically zero gear to level and can farm plat early like no one's business. The server will be overrun with Mages for the first few months.

Enchanter - About the same. There's a lot of cheap and easy +CHA gear available for charming in vanilla EQ. Can XP solo, duo/trio or full dungeon group without skipping a beat. Charm at <50 is not as OP as it is from 50-60, but remains very strong. Still a very solid and needed class.

Necromancer - Much stronger. Their pet is not quite at the Mage pet level, but still much better than melee DPS. They also have arguably the best level 49 spells of any caster. A very strong class in this era, especially for soloing and farming plat. We'll being seeing a lot of Necros around.

Hybrids:

Paladin - Stronger. The premier tank for group content in tight dungeons in an era where most of the game is group content in tight dungeons. Probably the best itemization of any melee class in this era. An extremely useful class for leveling 30-50 and tanking in the planes.

Shadow Knight - Stronger. Instant aggro, pulling and Troll/Ogre race choice for nice stats make SKs very solid in vanilla, especially since there will be many fewer Monks and Warriors running around.

Ranger - Weaker. Fewer large outdoor zones (most of Kunark and Velious) and outdoor dungeons (KC, CoM) make Rangers less useful trackers and pullers. The abundance of Druids renders their already weak spellbook mostly superfluous. They can't contribute much besides some mediocre DPS.

Bard - About the same. Fewer locations to swarm kite makes leveling slower. Still an excellent grouping class, and resist songs are always invaluable for raiding. We will see fewer Bards around, but the ones you do see will be much more skilled on average.

Melee:

Warrior - Much weaker. Aggro is terrible. 8/24 Yaks are your endgame weapons. No defensive or evasive disciplines. Paladins and SKs basically do everything you can do tanking wise. You just add a little more DPS. Unquestionably the nadir of the Warrior class in EQ.

Monk - Weaker. Absolutely abysmal itemization for Monks in vanilla EQ. On the flipside, Monks don't really need many items to be decently effective. Fists max out at 14/30 and are the best weapons in the game at that point. Limited to Human racial choice. We'll see much fewer Monks than we're used to on P1999. Only true Monk diehards will bother. The rest will roll Mages and Necros and wait until Kunark to twink an Iksar.

Rogue - Weaker. Poor itemization hurts Rogues badly. Low damage piercers abound. Mages and Necros smoke them for DPS. Require a group as always. They really explode in power in Kunark with Ragebringer, but in vanilla are very "meh". We won't see a ton of Rogues.

[azeth]

In general, INT casters are stronger (pet casters especially), Priests slightly weaker/the same, pure melee are much weaker and hybrids are more useful. In greater detail:

Priests:

Shaman - Weaker. No Fungi, no epic, no Torpor. Slow is still nice but much less needed at < 50 content. Mostly just buffs and heals. Can solo decently with their pet and DoTs, but are a far cry from the solo monster they become in Kunark.

Cleric - About the same. They lose the clickie rez epic, but maintain a monopoly on CH and a 90% XP rez. Always wanted in groups and raids and can solo decently with undead nukes.

Druid - About the same. Definitely worse off than they are in Velious, but probably a little better than they were in Kunark. They are the premier generalist caster and casual-friendly class. There will be plenty of Druids running around.

Casters:

Wizard - Stronger. Wizard DPS is awful when compared to melees using Kunark and Velious twink weapons, but is a lot more attractive when melees are using 6/30 weapons into their 30s. Their snare, root, stuns, big nukes and evac make them decent group members in dungeons. They remain the only ticket to Sky and Hate in an era when those are two of the best games in town. Ice Comet is legitimately awesome at this point in the timeline.

Magician - Much stronger. Mage pets are absolutely insane DPS in this era. No other class comes close. They also require basically zero gear to level and can farm plat early like no one's business. The server will be overrun with Mages for the first few months.

Enchanter - About the same. There's a lot of cheap and easy +CHA gear available for charming in vanilla EQ. Can XP solo, duo/trio or full dungeon group without skipping a beat. Charm at <50 is not as OP as it is from 50-60, but remains very strong. Still a very solid and needed class.

Necromancer - Much stronger. Their pet is not quite at the Mage pet level, but still much better than melee DPS. They also have arguably the best level 49 spells of any caster. A very strong class in this era, especially for soloing and farming plat. We'll being seeing a lot of Necros around.

Hybrids:

Paladin - Stronger. The premier tank for group content in tight dungeons in an era where most of the game is group content in tight dungeons. Probably the best itemization of any melee class in this era. An extremely useful class for leveling 30-50 and tanking in the planes.

Shadow Knight - Stronger. Instant aggro, pulling and Troll/Ogre race choice for nice stats make SKs very solid in vanilla, especially since there will be many fewer Monks and Warriors running around.

Ranger - Weaker. Fewer large outdoor zones (most of Kunark and Velious) and outdoor dungeons (KC, CoM) make Rangers less useful trackers and pullers. The abundance of Druids renders their already weak spellbook mostly superfluous. They can't contribute much besides some mediocre DPS.

Bard - About the same. Fewer locations to swarm kite makes leveling slower. Still an excellent grouping class, and resist songs are always invaluable for raiding. We will see fewer Bards around, but the ones you do see will be much more skilled on average.

Melee:

Warrior - Much weaker. Aggro is terrible. 8/24 Yaks are your endgame weapons. No defensive or evasive disciplines. Paladins and SKs basically do everything you can do tanking wise. You just add a little more DPS. Unquestionably the nadir of the Warrior class in EQ.

Monk - Weaker. Absolutely abysmal itemization for Monks in vanilla EQ. On the flipside, Monks don't really need many items to be decently effective. Fists max out at 14/30 and are the best weapons in the game at that point. Limited to Human racial choice. We'll see much fewer Monks than we're used to on P1999. Only true Monk diehards will bother. The rest will roll Mages and Necros and wait until Kunark to twink an Iksar.

Rogue - Weaker. Poor itemization hurts Rogues badly. Low damage piercers abound. Mages and Necros smoke them for DPS. Require a group as always. They really explode in power in Kunark with Ragebringer, but in vanilla are very "meh". We won't see a ton of Rogues.

/Thread

[Jimjam]

Ranger and bard have the 'advantage' that their defence skill caps don't get left behind like they do in Kunark/Velious.

The caps for ranger/bard vs tank/monk/rogue are something like 200 vs 210 in classic compared to 200 vs 255 Velious? Or was everyone stuck at 200?

[GnomeCaptain]

No clarity

Clarity was added in Kunark or Velious?

I thought it was in Vanilla, and that Breeze was added in expansion.

[DMN]

Clarity was added in Kunark or Velious?

I thought it was in Vanilla, and that Breeze was added in expansion.

Maybe he means clarity 2 or something.

[Jibartik]

Maybe he means clarity 2 or something.

I'm 99% sure breeze def was an addition and Clarity 1 is OG eq though.

[Dolalin]

At release, necro charm worked on everything.

I bet a lot of people don't know that.

[Cen]

Clarity was added in Kunark or Velious?

I thought it was in Vanilla, and that Breeze was added in expansion.

You are correct clarity is day 1 breeze kunark

[area]

At release, necro charm worked on everything.

I bet a lot of people don't know that.

Shaman also had charm. And their Disease dots were king. And no DOT decrease if mob was chasing you. Are those 3 things going to be classic when Green is launched? Or will they start nerfed?

[vetia]

I'm 99% sure breeze def was an addition and Clarity 1 is OG eq though.

Yeah this is right. Breeze was a little gift to the lowbies :)

[Raok112]

I swear I remember that for the first months of EQ in 1999, mage pets were crap even at level 50. They did not dual wield, they only double attacked. It was patched months in.

I can remember camping Lord, Frenzied and Magi as a trio on a 40's shaman and a 50 necro and cleric. This was around June 1999? You could give a necro pet two fine steel daggers and it continued to hit for 50+ dmg but would have the 20 attack delay of the dagger. At this point, I don't think mage pets could even equip weapons. Previously, they had already nerfed the damage of the necro pet, but it was still so amazingly strong.

I'm pretty sure that same patch that nerfed the attack delay for equipped weapons on necro pets was the same patch the introduced dual wield to mage pets. Prior to that point, I don't remember mage pets being that great at all except for the fact that the earth pet could root...

Maybe it was just all a dream...

[DMN]

Pretty close. They actually preemptively nerfed the necro pets a bit before they "fixed" the mage pets. And the necro pet nerf for sure had no patch notice or anything. Anyone who played a reasonably high level necro was immediately like "WTF my pet does 50% less damage" Or " anyone else's necro pet doing way less damage?"

[Zuranthium]

Druid - About the same. Definitely worse off than they are in Velious, but probably a little better than they were in Kunark.

Druids are at their most powerful early in EQ. They are able to play the healer role most effectively in this era and their tools for doing damage are more relevant for general gameplay in this era.

Paladin - Stronger. The premier tank for group content in tight dungeons in an era where most of the game is group content in tight dungeons. Probably the best itemization of any melee class in this era. An extremely useful class for leveling 30-50 and tanking in the planes.

They are not the premier tank and their itemization is nothing amazing. Ghoulbane makes them stronger than Warriors on the dead side of L-Guk until better weapons become more common, but that's about it, and they have a 50% exp penalty in comparison.

Warrior - Much weaker. Aggro is terrible. 8/24 Yaks are your endgame weapons. No defensive or evasive disciplines. Paladins and SKs basically do everything you can do tanking wise. You just add a little more DPS.

The higher skill caps, HP, and magic resist means that Warriors are still necessary tanks for raid content. They do significantly more DPS than Paladins (outside of the Ghoulbane scenarios) when utilizing berserk mode, which a competent group should be able to manage. Aggro is managed by casters using root. Nothing summons.

[Cecil]

Uh huh

[Master Roshi]

will pets use weapon delays with their set base damage like original classic?

[Tr4c3r]

In general, INT casters are stronger (pet casters especially), Priests slightly weaker/the same, pure melee are much weaker and hybrids are more useful. In greater detail:

Priests:

Shaman - Weaker. No Fungi, no epic, no Torpor. Slow is still nice but much less needed at < 50 content. Mostly just buffs and heals. Can solo decently with their pet and DoTs, but are a far cry from the solo monster they become in Kunark.

Cleric - About the same. They lose the clickie rez epic, but maintain a monopoly on CH and a 90% XP rez. Always wanted in groups and raids and can solo decently with undead nukes.

Druid - About the same. Definitely worse off than they are in Velious, but probably a little better than they were in Kunark. They are the premier generalist caster and casual-friendly class. There will be plenty of Druids running around.

Casters:

Wizard - Stronger. Wizard DPS is awful when compared to melees using Kunark and Velious twink weapons, but is a lot more attractive when melees are using 6/30 weapons into their 30s. Their snare, root, stuns, big nukes and evac make them decent group members in dungeons. They remain the only ticket to Sky and Hate in an era when those are two of the best games in town. Ice Comet is legitimately awesome at this point in the timeline.

Magician - Much stronger. Mage pets are absolutely insane DPS in this era. No other class comes close. They also require basically zero gear to level and can farm plat early like no one's business. The server will be overrun with Mages for the first few months.

Enchanter - About the same. There's a lot of cheap and easy +CHA gear available for charming in vanilla EQ. Can XP solo, duo/trio or full dungeon group without skipping a beat. Charm at <50 is not as OP as it is from 50-60, but remains very strong. Still a very solid and needed class.

Necromancer - Much stronger. Their pet is not quite at the Mage pet level, but still much better than melee DPS. They also have arguably the best level 49 spells of any caster. A very strong class in this era, especially for soloing and farming plat. We'll being seeing a lot of Necros around.

Hybrids:

Paladin - Stronger. The premier tank for group content in tight dungeons in an era where most of the game is group content in tight dungeons. Probably the best itemization of any melee class in this era. An extremely useful class for leveling 30-50 and tanking in the planes.

Shadow Knight - Stronger. Instant aggro, pulling and Troll/Ogre race choice for nice stats make SKs very solid in vanilla, especially since there will be many fewer Monks and Warriors running around.

Ranger - Weaker. Fewer large outdoor zones (most of Kunark and Velious) and outdoor dungeons (KC, CoM) make Rangers less useful trackers and pullers. The abundance of Druids renders their already weak spellbook mostly superfluous. They can't contribute much besides some mediocre DPS.

Bard - About the same. Fewer locations to swarm kite makes leveling slower. Still an excellent grouping class, and resist songs are always invaluable for raiding. We will see fewer Bards around, but the ones you do see will be much more skilled on average.

Melee:

Warrior - Much weaker. Aggro is terrible. 8/24 Yaks are your endgame weapons. No defensive or evasive disciplines. Paladins and SKs basically do everything you can do tanking wise. You just add a little more DPS. Unquestionably the nadir of the Warrior class in EQ.

Monk - Weaker. Absolutely abysmal itemization for Monks in vanilla EQ. On the flipside, Monks don't really need many items to be decently effective. Fists max out at 14/30 and are the best weapons in the game at that point. Limited to Human racial choice. We'll see much fewer Monks than we're used to on P1999. Only true Monk diehards will bother. The rest will roll Mages and Necros and wait until Kunark to twink an Iksar.

Rogue - Weaker. Poor itemization hurts Rogues badly. Low damage piercers abound. Mages and Necros smoke them for DPS. Require a group as always. They really explode in power in Kunark with Ragebringer, but in vanilla are very "meh". We won't see a ton of Rogues.
Thanks for the great reply!

[Zelbor]

I swear I remember that for the first months of EQ in 1999, mage pets were crap even at level 50. They did not dual wield, they only double attacked. It was patched months in.

I can remember camping Lord, Frenzied and Magi as a trio on a 40's shaman and a 50 necro and cleric. This was around June 1999? You could give a necro pet two fine steel daggers and it continued to hit for 50+ dmg but would have the 20 attack delay of the dagger. At this point, I don't think mage pets could even equip weapons. Previously, they had already nerfed the damage of the necro pet, but it was still so amazingly strong.

I'm pretty sure that same patch that nerfed the attack delay for equipped weapons on necro pets was the same patch the introduced dual wield to mage pets. Prior to that point, I don't remember mage pets being that great at all except for the fact that the earth pet could root...

Maybe it was just all a dream...

I played a mage shortly after release (I'm sure I started the game no later than the start of June '99). I don't ever recall a time when mage pets couldn't wield weapons, though I don't recall if/when they gained dual wield. I think I recall them gaining dual wield at a certain level (mid 20s?), but it's possible that it's just that I was that level when the ability was patched in.

I do recall with 100% certainty that the summoned Sword of Runes was crazy strong for pets at release, because Ward Summoned (41 damage) procced on all target types and not just against summoned, but it did so only when wielded by a pet. It worked that way for necro pets, too. I don't remember exactly when they patched that bug out but do remember being very disappointed.

I could also swear that mage earth pets didn't always root. Didn't they used to cast an earthquake damage spell that looked visually the same as a root, which confused people into thinking it was a root until it was simply changed to a root? Does anyone else recall that? I'm not as certain as I am about the Sword of Runes, though.

[Zuranthium]

I swear I remember that for the first months of EQ in 1999, mage pets were crap even at level 50. They did not dual wield, they only double attacked. It was patched months in.

Mage pets couldn't use weapons until nearly a year into the game, but it didn't matter. With just double attack, a Mage pet was still doing better DPS than a typical melee player of the same level, and Mages had nukes on top of it. The pets were absolutely always very strong; they just became that much more powerful after being able to dual wield.

Necro pets were ungodly powerful during the early era of the game when they could use weapons and the attack delay got modified by low delay weapons. Necro pet could do nearly 4x as much damage as a typical melee player of the same level. Really crazy.