No More Hell Levels?

[Madamegato]

DISCLAIMER: I am not even remotely saying/asking that this is/should be done. I am totally aware of how much work it would take and am genuinely asking because it's something I'm thinking about as I'm sitting here... medding... forever... Also, forgive me if this has been discussed before... just thinking "out loud" here. :D

Do you think it would be untrue to the spirit of Original Everquest if the hell levels were to be ironed out?

I'm on the fence.

On one hand, I think so just because it was a real badge of honor if you were high level because you suffered through it.

On the other, does it really change anything to still have to grind to the top if certain levels aren't harder than others?

[Halfcell]

It was ironed out, just not in classic EQ. Thus I think its objectively provable it would be untrue to the spirit of classic EQ. Also, hell levels are kind of a cool thing, they stall out leveling progression, causing characters to clump into 5 level bands, making grouping easier to do. I am pro-hell-level.

[kaev]

I like/liked the plateau levels. It always amused me how people would get all obsessive about grinding through them, when the problem level is the one that follows (because of the way death penalty works in EQ.) Plateau levels are the great time to experiment and try new stuff, because the xp loss on death is so small (compared to other levels, especially the level after a plateau.)

[tiadashi]

I like p99 just the way you are

[Gustoo]

They should make them harder.

I didn't know they existed on live and didn't remember they existed in p99

[Videri]

Even if they smoothed it out, it would still take the same amount of time to get to level 60.

What I like to do is stop looking at the exp bar and play the game. I level in a different area, or using different tactics, or new groupmates. I sometimes even take a break from leveling, do some quests, camp an item, help someone else get something they want. help this hopes

[Jimjam]

Agree with Videri; just remove the xp bar from your ui.

[Madamegato]

Definitely not a bad idea at all...

[Coridan]

Iron it out by making every level a hell level. Double or triple the XP required across the board to level.

[Mblake81]

Do you think it would be untrue to the spirit of Original Everquest if the hell levels were to be ironed out?

I'm on the fence.

Yes, no thanks :o

[Worry]

Iron it out by making every level a hell level. Double or triple the XP required across the board to level.
This.

It's about the journey, not the destination. The community has made it so max level isn't all that fun anyway.

[Deathrydar]

This.

It's about the journey, not the destination. The community has made it so max level isn't all that fun anyway.

I'm not too sure how leveling has become something that is "in the way" of the "real game", which these types of players consider raiding. The leveling experience was always supposed to be the heart and soul of the game. I have no idea where that went....

In modern MMOs (I refuse to add the "RPG" to that as they have nothing to do with it anymore) leveling is seen as something to just get thru to get to raiding. Why not just make raiding games then?

Oh, that's right....they have.

Everyone relax, enjoy the length of time you get to level up and see what happens.

[fadetree]

assuming that the original EQ devs did it on purpose, then yes. Since it's kind of a mathematical quirk I tend to think that it was not intended and so would not violate the 'spirit' (The Vision, tm) of original EQ.

[Jimjam]

assuming that the original EQ devs did it on purpose, then yes. Since it's kind of a mathematical quirk I tend to think that it was not intended and so would not violate the 'spirit' (The Vision, tm) of original EQ.

Ridiculous glitches and unintended consequences due to developer blind spots is part of the quirky charm to Everquest.

As much as this project is an homage to a thing we love, it also serves as a museum of mistakes for future games to avoid.

To paint over the cracks does the project a disservice.

[Deathrydar]

Ridiculous glitches and unintended consequences due to developer blind spots is part of the quirky charm to Everquest.

As much as this project is an homage to a thing we love, it also serves as a museum of mistakes for future games to avoid.

To paint over the cracks does the project a disservice.

Well said!

[Mblake81]

As much as this project is an homage to a thing we love, it also serves as a museum of mistakes for future games to avoid.

Is that why I am playing a 20 year old MMORPG instead of 2019 Skyrimcraft. :o

[Canelek]

They were leveled out around PoP->LDON if I recall correctly. At least that is what seems approximately the case since PoP's levels 60-65 scaled as "hell levels" as well.

(I think)

I like that there are hell levels. Makes sticking it out much more rewarding.

[Palemoon]

It was intentional on the original devs part. It was a way to allow friends to catch up with each other and keep them at the same or similar levels longer.

[elwing]

Hell level were not really removed, they just distributed the progression evenly, the total exp for 60 was similar before and after the "removal" of the hell level I think

[Baler]

someone explain to me like i'm five.

Hell levels aren't classic?

[garfo]

I like hell levels, they're something to look forward to - milestones along the way. There's a sense of solidarity when you see someone who's 35, 40, 54, etc. It's fun.

[Rogean]

They aren't going anywhere.

This actually came up on the panel I was in at Everquest Comic-Con Museum. Brad told a story about how it was implemented and one day a developer came to him and said "Hey I fixed the Hell Level Bug." and he responded "Bug? What the hell do you mean Bug? It was intended!".

Then they got over to me and I was like, yea we still have those hell levels ;D

[Lhord99]

They aren't going anywhere.

This actually came up on the panel I was in at Everquest Comic-Con Museum. Brad told a story about how it was implemented and one day a developer came to him and said "Hey I fixed the Hell Level Bug." and he responded "Bug? What the hell do you mean Bug? It was intended!".

Then they got over to me and I was like, yea we still have those hell levels ;D

Brad must've felt a little something inside him die a bit hearing how successful p99 is - hearing how many people lust for the golden years of his baby - and then looking at whateverthefugg EQ Live has devolved into. Still a successful franchise tho @ 25 xpac - dude was a/worked with visionary(ies).

Would be cool to have seen that interaction - did they record it?

[Baler]

They aren't going anywhere.

This actually came up on the panel I was in at Everquest Comic-Con Museum. Brad told a story about how it was implemented and one day a developer came to him and said "Hey I fixed the Hell Level Bug." and he responded "Bug? What the hell do you mean Bug? It was intended!".

Then they got over to me and I was like, yea we still have those hell levels ;D

brad brain hole McQuaid said... yeahh drugs
not even a troll or joke

trust me people can become functional again but the brain damage is forever lasting,.
This isnt an an opposition against hell levels. Simply against Brad's capability to remember anything during his drugged out state.

[Barantor]

I'm glad we have hell levels :D

[Canelek]

Hell levels, corpse runs in mage-summoned armor, getting left in the middle of the ocean by boats, getting stuck in walls...I wouldn't trade any of it.

[Sunderfury]

brad brain hole McQuaid said... yeahh drugs
not even a troll or joke

trust me people can become functional again but the brain damage is forever lasting,.
This isnt an an opposition against hell levels. Simply against Brad's capability to remember anything during his drugged out state.

Said from a forum dedicated to a game he created. Sad.

[Deathrydar]

brad brain hole McQuaid said... yeahh drugs
not even a troll or joke

trust me people can become functional again but the brain damage is forever lasting,.
This isnt an an opposition against hell levels. Simply against Brad's capability to remember anything during his drugged out state.

I hope he does more drugs then because I really enjoy his video game creations!

[fadetree]

Ridiculous glitches and unintended consequences due to developer blind spots is part of the quirky charm to Everquest.

As much as this project is an homage to a thing we love, it also serves as a museum of mistakes for future games to avoid.

To paint over the cracks does the project a disservice.

the question asked was if it would be against the original 'spirit' of everquest, not whether you would still like it or not. I was saying that if it were intentional (see above), then obviously yes. If it were NOT intentional, then it would not be against what the original devs thought they were creating. Had nothing to do with whether you or I would like it, or whether P99 should get rid of hell levels or paint over other cracks.

[Sonark]

I really don't know why people are upset about exp penalties in games like this anyways?

I remember playing Fallout: New Vegas, and one of the Perks was to have +5 (or maybe 10?) in all Skills, but at the cost of -5% exp.

The game is so big you're going to get to the max level no matter what you do if you just keep playing, so why worry about exp penalties at all, when you consider the hundreds of hours you're going to put into it?

[Madamegato]

They aren't going anywhere.

This actually came up on the panel I was in at Everquest Comic-Con Museum. Brad told a story about how it was implemented and one day a developer came to him and said "Hey I fixed the Hell Level Bug." and he responded "Bug? What the hell do you mean Bug? It was intended!".

Then they got over to me and I was like, yea we still have those hell levels ;D

I never knew! I've heard so many people complaining about it - insulting the people who made the game saying they couldn't math correctly and it showed. I like the badge of honor that comes from leveling through one, but man... the higher you go it feels s... o...... s....... l...... o...... w..... Neither here nor there, but it's neat seeing other people's thoughts. So thanks, guys. You've given me some food for... er... thought. :)

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And, for those of you interested in this little segue... my 40 wiz leveled to 41 tonight... and I promptly died thanks to some really eager frost giants. ;) They hit me so hard they knocked me back a level... thank you rez! So... still nervously leveling through the "after-hell" level.

You know, the highest I ever had was a 52 ranger on live... I have no idea how the hell I did that. (That was before live turned into... well, whatever spaghetti-meatball-chow-mein it is now.) I think I better go to bed, I have no clue if this post even makes sense I'm so tired. :D

[Jimjam]

Yeah, don't die in an 'after hell level' the xp penalty is huge.

[Lhord99]

It is called EverQuest

[zaneosak]

Hell levels are really good. I remember in kunark when I started my buddy who got me into EQ talking about hell levels and you don't really understand the gravity of it until you are there. Now a days MMOs are all about instant and fast gratification but back then, getting thru 51 was like it's own little accomplishment. Especially as a cleric who had to sit in groups to do it, this was back when all I knew was Lower Guk and sitting in the Frenzied camp for my entire saturday hoping to get a few bubbles.

[Muggens]

Brad is God. Rogean is his Avatar!