The MIDIs

[Deathrydar]

I just found a new Original EQ soundtrack released by Daybreak games and THIS is how I remember them sounding. What is it that makes it so we cannot get them to sound like this in game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-9-LF5y3Bs&list=OLAK5uy_mGmw9amnJe7CfcNmDbtuexPSBJ-ZVExvM

[Mblake81]

Memory isn't slipping, they didn't sound that way. We are talking about 1999 era MIDI music. What makes it so? those are a cleaned up version, perhaps some form of remaster.

Desert of Ro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE2f34cgFDo) for sure has been altered.

Faydwers Dusk, remastered version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBGxBMnn2B8) Vs. Kelethin Remastered on Roland SD-50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJc4cZOal8c)

[Izmael]

They sounded a lot "worse" back then. We mostly had Soundblaster sound cards then, with some lucky ones having something like a Gravis (I was one! Still have it and keep it religiously).

None of those cards provided anywhere near the MIDI quality heard on the Youtube tracks you posted.

Nice find, regardless!

[Deathrydar]

They sounded a lot "worse" back then. We mostly had Soundblaster sound cards then, with some lucky ones having something like a Gravis (I was one! Still have it and keep it religiously).

None of those cards provided anywhere near the MIDI quality heard on the Youtube tracks you posted.

Nice find, regardless!

Okay, so its the fact that things have become so much more "advanced" as the reason why we cannot hear them in game they way we should be?

[Izmael]

Okay, so its the fact that things have become so much more "advanced" as the reason why we cannot hear them in game they way we should be?

That, I have no idea.

I don't think I ever had music turned on while playing P99 at all.

[Mblake81]

Okay, so its the fact that things have become so much more "advanced" as the reason why we cannot hear them in game they way we should be?

Could be many factors to consider. Period hardware/software is one of them.

[Jimjam]

People that play everquest with the sound turned off are monsters.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

These are the new versions as done on modern stuff.

The old ones were much lesser quality (well compared to this)

Dont get me wrong, i love the old ones. These are great remakes.

[Deathrydar]

That, I have no idea.

I don't think I ever had music turned on while playing P99 at all.

How dare you!....

[Mblake81]

Sound is coming through our modern computers, different software/hardware/speakers/headphones etc.

PC game sound cards are not really a thing anymore. creative and windows vista with the critical attack. (one less thing required for multiplatform on Xbox)

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

If these were really the tracks from classic EQ they would of needed to of been on a CD, back then that was the only real way to play music of this quality while playing a game AFAIK.

[tsuchang]

People that play everquest with the sound turned off are monsters.

Cripes, I thought I was just deplorable, now I'm considered a monster too? <sigh>

[Jimjam]

@Tsuchang: You have a gnome as a sig, so you are clearly going through some personal/drug issues at the moment. Don't be too hard on yourself, monster!

OP: you linked the wrong song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyvbweK5Bk&list=OLAK5uy_mGmw9amnJe7CfcNmDbtuexPSBJ-ZVExvM&index=24

[Danth]

A great many people presently use onboard sound which typically has only poor MIDI support. Way back when you would've been using things like SoundBlaster Live! or AWE32 which would've given different results. That being said it still wouldn't have sounded quite the same as that modern video. There are old videos also on youtube made using various types of hardware (or simulated equivalents).

For my part I was also among the folks who always turned game music off (sound on, but music off). 90's MIDI music always sounded so bad compared to consoles of the era.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

So now that the conversation has started, what have some people found on the interwebz that gets the midis as close to the original sounds as possible?

[Danth]

EQ used some sort of proprietary file for its music, although I think it was really just midi music converted to a different format so people couldn't easily listen to it out-of-game. An old EQ patch note for EQ suggests that most users heard pre-rendered music, although users with SBLive! or AWE32 cards got something different. If you can remember what hardware you had in 1999/2001 that'll let you know what you want to hunt for on youtube/elsewhere.

Danth

[Jimjam]

So now that the conversation has started, what have some people found on the interwebz that gets the midis as close to the original sounds as possible?

I'm sure there are threads on this in the technical discussion forum and elsewhere on eqemu, but my gut is telling me that because elfsim is so old, those threads might actually now be out of date and not appropriate solutions for windows 10!

googled site:project1999.com midi and got this result:

Make EQ's music (MIDI) sound Significantly Better. (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81207)
(2012!)

edit:

I see you already found that dead end.

edit edit:

You can setup several soundbanks in virtual midi synth, I've found that using the files you can find in the EQ directory in combination with the awe32 soundbank will give you the correct instruments. They overwrite each other as you load more in, here's my current load order and it sounds pretty good.

1mgm.sf2
synthys2.sf2
sythnusr.sbk

The last two are in the EQ directory. I haven't noticed anything that sounds significantly off with this setup yet.

Sounds like the trick for win10 is to download virtualmidi synth and combine EQ's own files with the awe32 soundbank

[Deathrydar]

I'm sure there are threads on this in the technical discussion forum and elsewhere on eqemu, but my gut is telling me that because elfsim is so old, those threads might actually now be out of date and not appropriate solutions for windows 10!

googled site:project1999.com midi and got this result:

Make EQ's music (MIDI) sound Significantly Better. (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81207)
(2012!)

edit:

I see you already found that dead end.

edit edit:



Sounds like the trick for win10 is to download virtualmidi synth and combine EQ's own files with the awe32 soundbank

/cheers

[Vormotus]

Kelethin Remastered on Roland SD-50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJc4cZOal8c)

Hearing that Roland version makes me ... want to cry ? a deep seated emotion of loss and grief wow.

For real :(

[Vormotus]

That, I have no idea.

I don't think I ever had music turned on while playing P99 at all.

I am the kind of guy that dedicated a Qsynth session on my Lubuntu Installation just to be able to hear the banking/trading MIDIs using a classical soundfont ... P99 comes alive with music!

But then again I know the sound debate is a complex one, some people prefer a quiet game play but for me without sound P99 or EQ at all is not eq.:p

[Deathrydar]

without sound P99 or EQ at all is not eq.:p

^^

[Vormotus]

^^

:D

You can do some of the workarounds I did at first personally on particular tracks I really liked.

Just find a good sample of track emulating an awe32 or roland or even an old SB , Adlib or Pro Audio Spectrum you enjoy and then turn it into an .mp3 file.

But then when deciding to use my Linux installation as my main gaming platform for P99 (it runs so much better there) I did something different.

I just removed most of the mp3s that come with titanium and replaced them with the original mid files and decided to use the closest I could find replica of the awe 32 soundfont.

The game can read the mid files over the mp3 ones. I will try to dig my old thread in Support where I explained how to not repeat myself needlessly.


Since hearing is such a selective method, the closest you can get is finding amongst the myriad awe32 soundfonts on the net one that matches your expectations.

Here is my old Midi Thread, though it relies on Linux it is actually quite easy to understand the basics

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295681

The reason I find Lubuntu and Linux superior to dedicate a whole partition of it to play P99 is that it actually emulates the windows of the time much better, and this includes audio.

Again it might be a bit extreme, but you can always opt to just grab some of the myriad resamples of eq classical music through emulators and even through the real sound cards of the time and turn it into an mp3.

If you want to experiment a bit I heartily recommend MUNT if you are on PC/Windows...

https://sourceforge.net/projects/munt/


Munt Emulates roland and many other mid devices of the time.

Not everything has to have an AWE 32 soundfont, and sometimes certain games sound better or you might enjoy some sounds more if they come through a roland soundfont.

There are many options regarding music , hope this helps you a bit.:)

[loramin]

Just to clarify, since I get the impression people here don't fully "grok" it ... midi files are not sound recordings. MP3s, WAV files, etc. those all are digital formats for storing audio recordings ... but not MIDIs.

What MIDI files are is more like sheet music. They (essentially) say "the trumpet plays this note at this moment" ... but they leave it up the MIDI-playing program to decide exactly what that trumpet sounds like. They don't store the sound of a trumpet, which made midi files much smaller (and more attractive to devs) than actual audio recordings back then.

That's why there's differences between different sound cards and such: they all have different (virtual) "instruments".

[Chortles Snort|eS]

People that play everquest with the sound turned off are monsters.

[Cecil]

Definitley remastered, i personally love the original music and wish daybreak would launch a real classic server with real staff, real rules, fair treatment and no scandals


sigh

I have wishes of my own.

[Mblake81]

So now that the conversation has started, what have some people found on the interwebz that gets the midis as close to the original sounds as possible?

Examples:
Kelethin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3curH5KHw&t=283s)
Neriak, Necromancer guild (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3curH5KHw&t=2053s)
North Ro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3curH5KHw&t=1826s)
Boat Theme, OoT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA3curH5KHw&t=1826s)

*The sounds are correct and not remixed but they are cleaned up. It would sound different coming through a MIDI card and speakers of the time. I was using a Soundblaster Live! and Boston Acoustic Digital BA735 speakers.

[Mblake81]

Just to clarify, since I get the impression people here don't fully "grok" it ... midi files are not sound recordings. MP3s, WAV files, etc. those all are digital formats for storing audio recordings ... but not MIDIs.

What MIDI files are is more like sheet music. They (essentially) say "the trumpet plays this note at this moment" ... but they leave it up the MIDI-playing program to decide exactly what that trumpet sounds like. They don't store the sound of a trumpet, which made midi files much smaller (and more attractive to devs) than actual audio recordings back then.

That's why there's differences between different sound cards and such: they all have different (virtual) "instruments".

/\

LGR's MIDI Mountain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMSdaPTuV8E)

8-Bit Guy, Soundblaster Keyboards. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLJSdNYcdpk)

[Mblake81]

A great many people presently use onboard sound which typically has only poor MIDI support. Way back when you would've been using things like SoundBlaster Live! or AWE32 which would've given different results. That being said it still wouldn't have sounded quite the same as that modern video. There are old videos also on youtube made using various types of hardware (or simulated equivalents).

For my part I was also among the folks who always turned game music off (sound on, but music off). 90's MIDI music always sounded so bad compared to consoles of the era.

Danth

Yeah, good info. There were some games that got into Mod Tracker sounds like the original Deus Ex (the only Deus Ex game), I am not all that familiar with it. But I would argue that better or worse computers had their own sound. It was one less thing stretched across the board with every other device. Some people are all about the multiplatform but I am one of the guys that hate it. It all tastes like Vanilla.

[Vormotus]

/\

LGR's MIDI Mountain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMSdaPTuV8E)

8-Bit Guy, Soundblaster Keyboards. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLJSdNYcdpk)

You pasted a 8 Bit guy video, you are already in my fav person book!

That channel rocks so much, I am stuck on permanent vintage mode and some of his videos are so relaxing I usually leave them on on my big screen so I can see them as I do chores around the house.

Some of his unboxing vintage computers are the best!

And LGR channel is what got me into MUNT madness ... so much good stuff there!

And yes, having EQ sound exactly as it was back in the day is really fun :)

[Jimjam]

/cheers

Does it work?

[Vormotus]

EQ used some sort of proprietary file for its music, although I think it was really just midi music converted to a different format so people couldn't easily listen to it out-of-game. An old EQ patch note for EQ suggests that most users heard pre-rendered music, although users with SBLive! or AWE32 cards got something different. If you can remember what hardware you had in 1999/2001 that'll let you know what you want to hunt for on youtube/elsewhere.

Danth

I had in the day an AWE32 and it was amazing, but I remember a friend of mine had this Pro Audio Spectrum soundcard, it was so advanced for the time it even had a SCSI interface.

I wonder how it would sound playing EQ?

He was the guy that showed off in the Adlib/SB 1.0 days how his Wing Commander intro sounded better than everyone elses.

These type of threads make me want to go buy me a real Mt 32 and other oldie gadgets. I left behind on my country a fully 1996 themed computer that ran all the classics in wonderful early vga colors with a trusty super bulky crt.

Nothing beats that nostalgia trip high as using actual vintage pieces haha

[Izmael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMiyJR_iTvY&feature=youtu.be&t=49

I think this sounds quite close to how a regular SB back then rendered the EQ MIDIs.

[Mblake81]

Freeport theme on 13 different MIDI wave table soundcards. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-_k9hWFwp4)

[Mblake81]

The music for EQ started coming together as early as 1995 and was composed with the AWE32 soundcard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_AWE32) in mind. By the late 90s most games moved away from MIDI soundtracks but EQ still supported ONLY the AWE32 and Sound Blaster Live! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!)cards for hardware sound. From what I can tell, this is because the game client loaded a special EQ soundfont into the card which loaded instruments and drums unique to the game in addition to calling upon instruments native to the cards EMU8000 midi synth chip.

I do enjoy MIDI quite a bit. The small bit of music that I heard was... actually quite amazing, really. I would have to wonder whether or not Everquest could be considered the pinnacle of MIDI music in PC gaming. It certainly hit very late to be a game that used MIDI.

I picked up the MIDI file archive and fired up the main theme (Intro) and it pretty much choked my equipment. The composer really did compose in a late era of MIDI as it uses a solid 16 channels and knocks down the polyphony door. I am fairly certain you would cripple a Yamaha DB50XG if you tried to play back some of this music on it. As I understand it, that DB50XG has 32 voice polyphony. Watching the MIDI playback voice count in MIDI Player while playing "Norrath Beckons," it looks like it is averaging 25-30, has some areas that clear 40, and tops out at around 70.

What does the box/manual say for recommended sound? Do you have it? Where did you read that the game was designed for the AWE32? Is there an official interview that mentions it, or is it speculation on a forum? Based on my short experience with Everquest MIDI, the AWE32 most likely couldn't deliver what was asked of it.

[Quinas]

This is a cool project: https://soundcloud.com/eq-music-reimagined