It is past time we were allowed shortie hybrids

[pink grapefruit]

With green on the horizon and blue being so very close to this point in the history of EQ, isn't it about time we got halfling rangers and gnome sks?

Here's some interesting info for everyone (including Rogaen):

Pet windows and custom UIs were made available in the July 24, 2002 patch.

Shortie hybrids were made available in the March 19, 2002 patch.

Once this revelation sinks in, it becomes clear that the devs have a moral obligation to give us our tiny hybrids.

[elwing]

Human equipable greenmist is in the same patch I think...

[fadetree]

No. Assling rangers are an abomination. Gnome SKs I don't care about.

[Jimjam]

I love hobbits of all shapes and size, as much as the next forumquester, but where does it stop?

Barbarian Beastlords?

Dwarf Berserkers?

CATS ON THE MOON?!

*audible screeching*.

[Deathrydar]

I love hobbits of all shapes and size, as much as the next forumquester, but where does it stop?

Barbarian Beastlords?

Dwarf Berserkers?

CATS ON THE MOON?!

*audible screeching*.

That is exactly where this ends.

[Izmael]

Big difference between allowing people to continue to see their pet's HP without having to spam a hotkey, and adding a whole set of race/class combinations.

Afraid it's not happening on P99.

[Halfcell]

I love hobbits of all shapes and size, as much as the next forumquester, but where does it stop?

Barbarian Beastlords?

Dwarf Berserkers?

CATS ON THE MOON?!



Don't I wish. Minus the berserkers.

People on this server talk a good game about hating Luclin, but when was the last time you played it? Luclin would be the best thing for P99.

Also, yay for tiny hybrids.

[Deathrydar]

Don't I wish. Minus the berserkers.

People on this server talk a good game about hating Luclin, but when was the last time you played it? Luclin would be the best thing for P99.

Also, yay for tiny hybrids.

Yes. Yes! Please implement moon kitties and zones that make it so the old world zones are irrelevant. And also implement the Luclin spires so the community is broken when we don't need druids and wizards anymore.

Sounds great....

/smh

[Crede]

Gnome sk would definitely be my main. the new offensive upgrades would pair nicely with the clockwork arm spell haste.

This needs to happen.

[kaev]

Possibly the worst idea ever

[maximum]

With green on the horizon and blue being so very close to this point in the history of EQ, isn't it about time we got halfling rangers and gnome sks?

Here's some interesting info for everyone (including Rogaen):

Pet windows and custom UIs were made available in the July 24, 2002 patch.

Shortie hybrids were made available in the March 19, 2002 patch.

Once this revelation sinks in, it becomes clear that the devs have a moral obligation to give us our tiny hybrids.

I think this is a post about "Classicness" of Blue. Obviously, we don't do Luclin stuff ("no cats on the moon") and we're at November 2001 Era according to the timeline.

[Canelek]

It's just shitposting to stir all the new folk up.

[pink grapefruit]

I think this is a post about "Classicness" of Blue. Obviously, we don't do Luclin stuff ("no cats on the moon") and we're at November 2001 Era according to the timeline.

nope!

It's just shitposting to stir all the new folk up.

uh, no....

i'm just your average gnome enthusiast! and i'm holding out hope that the devs aren't such hateful sadists that they keep us waiting much longer.... :( :( :(

[loramin]

I think this is a post about "Classicness" of Blue. Obviously, we don't do Luclin stuff ("no cats on the moon") and we're at November 2001 Era according to the timeline.

nope!

Actually, I think Maximum hit that nail on the head :)

Look, everyone knows this place isn't live. You want live stuff, you go to live.

And just about everyone knows that Green is the place you go for only stuff released < 2002. A few people are having a hard time fully "grokking" this, but most get it.

But do Beastlords belong Blue? Do Vah Shir (remade as Kerrans)? Do Halfling Rangers?

Blue's having a sort of "identity crisis" at the moment, because for 10 years it was THE server (let's pretend Red doesn't exist ;)). Now it's (about to) not be THE server. But even so ... that identity crisis won't be solved today. It's something Rogean and Nilbog need to decide, and right now they have this little thing called Green occupying their attention.

I suspect once Green is out and the P99 staff is able to take their attention off Green, R&N will let us know how they want to define Blue. And once we know that, we'll know if Halfling Rangers belong on it or not. But we won't know until R&N decide, because it's their box, and like I said they have some other stuff going on right now so I really wouldn't expect a clear Blue definition anytime real soon.

[Deathrydar]

Actually, I think Maximum hit that nail on the head :)

Look, everyone knows this place isn't live. You want live stuff, you go to live.

And just about everyone knows that Green is the place you go for only stuff released < 2002. A few people are having a hard time fully "grokking" this, but most get it.

But do Beastlords belong Blue? Do Vah Shir (remade as Kerrans)? Do Halfling Rangers?

Blue's having a sort of "identity crisis" at the moment, because for 10 years it was THE server (let's pretend Red doesn't exist ;)). Now it's (about to) not be THE server. But even so ... that identity crisis won't be solved today. It's something Rogean and Nilbog need to decide, and right now they have this little thing called Green occupying their attention.

I suspect once Green is out and the P99 staff is able to take their attention off Green, R&N will let us know how they want to define Blue. And once we know that, we'll know if Halfling Rangers belong on it or not. But we won't know until R&N decide, because it's their box, and like I said they have some other stuff going on right now so I really wouldn't expect a clear Blue definition anytime real soon.

This is what happens when you cater to the whining of a few people that want the project to derail its original vision. Expect more of them to come out of the wood-works and ask/demand non-classic era content now that they see that the devs will back off.

[pink grapefruit]

Actually, I think Maximum hit that nail on the head :)

Look, everyone knows this place isn't live. You want live stuff, you go to live.

And just about everyone knows that Green is the place you go for only stuff released < 2002. A few people are having a hard time fully "grokking" this, but most get it.

But do Beastlords belong Blue? Do Vah Shir (remade as Kerrans)? Do Halfling Rangers?

Blue's having a sort of "identity crisis" at the moment, because for 10 years it was THE server (let's pretend Red doesn't exist ;)). Now it's (about to) not be THE server. But even so ... that identity crisis won't be solved today. It's something Rogean and Nilbog need to decide, and right now they have this little thing called Green occupying their attention.

I suspect once Green is out and the P99 staff is able to take their attention off Green, R&N will let us know how they want to define Blue. And once we know that, we'll know if Halfling Rangers belong on it or not. But we won't know until R&N decide, because it's their box, and like I said they have some other stuff going on right now so I really wouldn't expect a clear Blue definition anytime real soon.

Once green is out they'll be busy with red 2.0 tho...

[Cen]

I'm only okay with gnome shadowknights for some reason. They seem like they make sense. Lol

[bigjeff100]

I'm only okay with gnome shadowknights for some reason. They seem like they make sense. Lol

For sure.. If a race can choose warrior and necro, there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed the hybrid choice!!!

[pink grapefruit]

I'm only okay with gnome shadowknights for some reason. They seem like they make sense. Lol

That's bc they've been worshipping Bertoxxulous for so long as both warriors and necros, and Brell makes literally zero sense as a paladin god. Not sure what you got againist halfling rangers and paladins tho.

I'd be okay without the gnome paladins, and with dwarves retroactively losing the ability to be paladins. Dwarves are too stupid to be holy knights, and these characters should be deleted by the devs.

[Madbad]

Halfing paladin

[btravis1990]

Yes. Yes! Please implement moon kitties and zones that make it so the old world zones are irrelevant. And also implement the Luclin spires so the community is broken when we don't need druids and wizards anymore.

Sounds great....

/smh

Spires are PoP, so Wizards and Druids still relevant to get around once on the moon.

[Cen]

Spires are PoP, so Wizards and Druids still relevant to get around once on the moon.

The nexus translocatong npcs are luclin. PoP is travel books.

[Arvan]

Can we at least pretend to keep blue classic please my gorsh

[Deathrydar]

Spires are PoP, so Wizards and Druids still relevant to get around once on the moon.

Spire translocators are Shadows of Luclin my friend.

[kaev]

Myself, it's not so much the rangers & paladins that i'm against. It's more the halflings & gnomes.

[Benanov]

Spires are PoP, so Wizards and Druids still relevant to get around once on the moon.

The automatic "suck everyone in the area to Nexus" (which made Wizard ports fun) behavior started in Luclin. Tox, NK, GFay, and DL all had ports that fired off every 15 minutes.

PoP added the books, at which point druids and wizards went from being useful transportation classes to nearly superfluous, except for powerlevelling SoW bots (druids), and Hate/Sky - which were only entered for Epics, really - wizards. Why raid in a zone you need to spend a bunch of plat per-group to get in when you can just click a book in the new expansion everyone bought and hey look at all this shiny new gear that's better?

We went from Rangers and Rogues whining that they were useless (in Classic) to Druids and Wizards whining that they were useless. The difference is Rangers and Rogues eventually got pumped in Kunark / Velious, enough that they're not the pariahs they were on classic.

There's a reason this server stops at Velious. To paraphrase the Matrix, There is no Moon.

If you wanna be a mooncat, TAKP is a functioning project, and also supports 3-boxing, pet windows, keyrings, cycle targets, and the like. Their client is also period-correct so you have fewer limitations than the Titanium client all the other emu servers use - none of this high-falutin /autoinventory goodness, which I'm sure is next on the chopping block.

Their population is also a lot lower than P99's.

The reason why is an exercise for the reader.

[Mblake81]

"It was almost there!"

[Palemoon]

There is already at least one halfling paladin on red99

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Um no

[loramin]

This is what happens when you cater to the whining of a few people that want the project to derail its original vision. Expect more of them to come out of the wood-works and ask/demand non-classic era content now that they see that the devs will back off.

Rogean is ... not the type to "back off". In fact, to those of us who have been here awhile, the pet window reversal on Blue was actually kind of shocking.

But as he explained, the reason he "backed off" there was not because of the pressure: he's resisted pressure for a decade. He backed off because both pet windows and custom UI were "gray", or almost classic: they came out with Luclin, which of course was the first thing after Green's "classic" window. And the plan has always been for Blue to be "Classic+" ... it's just R&N have never elaborated on what that meant, except to imply some kind of custom content.

If you've read Rogean's/Nilbog's posts on the topic, the two are (to put it extremely mildly) not a fan of cats on the moon. They're also not a fan of stuff like easier teleportation mechanisms (eg. spires, PoK books) or soul binders, because while they add convenience, they do so at a cost of reducing player interaction, making the virtual world feel smaller, and really just making it a different game.

The cats on the moon part ... that just seems like personal/subjective/irrational hated they have :) But my point is, don't worry: they'll do what they want with their box.

https://i.imgur.com/El4dPLW.gif

My theory is, they're just still deciding where exactly they want to draw the line on Blue when it comes to stuff that is "gray". They made a call with pet windows and custom UI: they don't fundamentally change the "classic game" in ways they care about. They have yet to make a call about other stuff, like Halfling Rangers and Gnome Shadowknights ... and if I were them, I'd be worried about Green right now, and would make such decisions later on.

Maybe they'll take the well-reasoned arguments made by posters here into consideration when deciding that.

[Deathrydar]

Rogean is ... not the type to "back off". In fact, to those of us who have been here awhile, the pet window reversal on Blue was actually kind of shocking.

But as he explained, the reason he "backed off" there was not because of the pressure: he's resisted pressure for a decade. He backed off because both pet windows and custom UI were "gray", or almost classic: they came out with Luclin, which of course was the first thing after Green's "classic" window. And the plan has always been for Blue to be "Classic+" ... it's just R&N have never elaborated on what that meant, except to imply some kind of custom content.

If you've read Rogean's/Nilbog's posts on the topic, the two are (to put it extremely mildly) not a fan of cats on the moon. They're also not a fan of stuff like easier teleportation mechanisms (eg. spires, PoK books) or soul binders, because while they add convenience, they do so at a cost of reducing player interaction, making the virtual world feel smaller, and really just making it a different game.

The casts on the moon part ... that just seems like personal/subjective/irrational hated they have :) But my point is, don't worry: they'll do what they want with their box.

https://i.imgur.com/El4dPLW.gif

My theory is, they're just still deciding where exactly they want to draw the line on Blue when it comes to stuff that is "gray". They made a call with pet windows and custom UI: they don't fundamentally change the "classic game" in ways they care about. They have yet to make a call about other stuff, like Halfling Rangers and Gnome Shadowknights ... and if I were them, I'd be worried about Green right now, and would make such decisions later on.

Maybe they'll take the well-reasoned arguments made by posters here into consideration when deciding that ... but ultimately:

Okay, thanks. I'm doing laundry now so I have to go.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

your gif selections are missing a certain je ne sais quoi lad

[El-Hefe]

They also backed off on target cycling. I think R&N see Blue as a lost cause by this point. It’s done, all the future classic changes will be Green only and Blue will just be a empty backwater server for the 3 - 4 obsessive raiding guilds that want nothing to ever change again.

Personally, I don’t blame them.

[Jimjam]

Halfing paladin

Honestly, I think halfling shadowknights make more sense. Bear with me...

The cleric religious centre in Rivervale is the Church of Mischief. Sure, mischief could be used for good, an entertainment to improve someones day.

But lets face it. Bristlebane isn't about that. He is about pranks and cons. He takes his enjoyment from the misery of others. Cheating luck, laughing at physical harm to others.

What is Harm Touch other than the ultimate conclusion of the electro buzzer hand shake?

[Madbad]

Honestly, I think halfling shadowknights make more sense. Bear with me...

The cleric religious centre in Rivervale is the Church of Mischief. Sure, mischief could be used for good, an entertainment to improve someones day.

But lets face it. Bristlebane isn't about that. He is about pranks and cons. He takes his enjoyment from the misery of others. Cheating luck, laughing at physical harm to others.

What is Harm Touch other than the ultimate conclusion of the electro buzzer hand shake?

Yes to all of this.

However, Samwise Gamgee would have been a paladin, so there.

[Jimjam]

Yes to all of this.

However, Samwise Gamgee would have been a paladin, so there.

Sam was no paladin; he needed no phony god behind his back... he was the absolute deity of a hobbit that CARRIED the fellowship and singlehandedly defeated Sauron.

[Deathrydar]

Sam was no paladin; he needed no phony god behind his back... he was the absolute deity of a hobbit that CARRIED the fellowship and singlehandedly defeated Sauron.

Samwise Gamgee WAS God!!!!

[whitebandit]

Wood Elf Monks for Blue99!

[pink grapefruit]

Honestly, I think halfling shadowknights make more sense. Bear with me...

The cleric religious centre in Rivervale is the Church of Mischief. Sure, mischief could be used for good, an entertainment to improve someones day.

But lets face it. Bristlebane isn't about that. He is about pranks and cons. He takes his enjoyment from the misery of others. Cheating luck, laughing at physical harm to others.

What is Harm Touch other than the ultimate conclusion of the electro buzzer hand shake?

Hmmmm interesting. Honestly it would be cool to see *both* halfling paladins and SKs, with both worshippng Bristlebane. Imagine them all training under the same god, in the same building, on the same faction lol. Kinda poking fun at the seriousness with which other knights approach their training, as well as their place in the world :D:D:D:D

[Madbad]

You just KNOW that Samwise laid hands on Frodo at some point

[Deathrydar]

You just KNOW that Samwise laid hands on Frodo at some point

Is there a video of that? Asking for a friend.

[Baler]

Rumor has it there is still a gnome sk on p99 blue. It evaded the database purge.

[Madbad]

https://i.imgur.com/QQBwFcP.jpg

[Jimjam]

Rumor has it there is still a gnome sk on p99 blue. It evaded the database purge.

In my very early days I remember a halfling with fiery avenger (or similar flaming sword).

Boy was I a jelly baby!

https://i.imgur.com/QQBwFcP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/e3P6Tqd.jpg

[pink grapefruit]

Distinctly remember a halfling paladin on blue named Frodilbo. This was years ago but the name stuck in my head :P

[Madbad]

In my very early days I remember a halfling with fiery avenger (or similar flaming sword).

Boy was I a jelly baby!



https://i.imgur.com/e3P6Tqd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yWu5GA3.png

[Chortles Snort|eS]

https://i.imgur.com/DeeOyem.gif

[Izmael]

Gnome / assling hybrids is not a gray area at all IMO. It's well past the red line that I'm sure R&N set for themselves.

I don't think there's anything not already on Blue that could possibly be made a case for. Resetting ST maybe used to be that "unsure" area but now with Green it's probably off the table for good.

[brokenpromise]

I'm really confused as to why everyone is so hung up on "cats on the moon". Its an elf sim. There is lizards on the moon and no one has a problem with that?

The things you guys choose to zero in on really boils my asshole.

Bring pet windows back and let us have the option of the luclin/planes models and graphics.

[Deathrydar]

I'm really confused as to why everyone is so hung up on "cats on the moon". Its an elf sim. There is lizards on the moon and no one has a problem with that?

The things you guys choose to zero in on really boils my asshole.

Bring pet windows back and let us have the option of the luclin/planes models and graphics.

It's bait guys....don't even...

[loramin]

Gnome / assling hybrids is not a gray area at all IMO. It's well past the red line that I'm sure R&N set for themselves.

I don't think there's anything not already on Blue that could possibly be made a case for. Resetting ST maybe used to be that "unsure" area but now with Green it's probably off the table for good.

If you have a quote about that line I'd love to see it.

But otherwise, I truly think the answer is that no one knows. R&N are cagey bastards: they've been doing this for a long time, but to my knowledge they never really talked a ton about Blue's future after Green. Hell, they didn't even talk about Green, except in abstract terms, up until like a year ago (I used to get in arguments here with people who thought Green would never come).

Really I think all they've said for sure is that there will be probably custom content, that it will be less classically constrained than Green, and that P99 will never have cats in the moon or features like teleportation spires which change how the game feels.

Alternate race/class combinations came out three months after Luclin/the end of the Green/P99 era: http://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#new_race_class_options. They don't fundamentally change the game in the way that soul binders or spires do, and I really think they could be considered "gray". I think IF THEY WANTED R&N could 100% allow such combinations without contradicting anything they've ever said.

Or they could not: it's really entirely up to them and all anyone here can do is speculate.

[loramin]

I'm really confused as to why everyone is so hung up on "cats on the moon". Its an elf sim. There is lizards on the moon and no one has a problem with that?

I'm not a moon cat hater personally, but the sense I get is the people that do hate them (like R&N) kinda feel the game jumped the shark when it went to the moon at all. Not only did the old game itself change in massive ways (bazaar, spires, soul binders, etc.), but the new zones/NPCs just didn't feel at all like the old ones.

But if you really want to know, go dig through all R&N posts. I'm sure if you dig enough you'll find one of them talking about their moon cat hate :)

[pink grapefruit]

if the devs loved us at all they'd allow us our beloved tiny hybrids.

@r&n u luv us rite??? :(

[Danth]

The cats on the moon weren't true to the original game. The original game had cat people--Kerrans. If those Kerrans were simply made a playable race starting on Kerra Isle I doubt there would've been much uproar. The mooncats were presented nothing like them, looked nothing like them, and instead were humanized hybrids meant apparently to appeal to 'furries.' It was out of place for the setting and typical of everything wrong with the aliens-on-the-moon expansion for what had previously been a fairly consistent high fantasy setting. Maybe the mooncats weren't a bad idea, but they were a bad idea for EQ.

I think gnome paladins and shadowknights are absent because gnomes are too manic to achieve a knightly sort of temperament. I'm not sure why halfling rangers are disallowed, to the point where even after 20 years I still have to remind myself they aren't a thing.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

I think gnome paladins and shadowknights are absent because gnomes are too manic to achieve a knightly sort of temperament. I'm not sure why halfling rangers are disallowed, to the point where even after 20 years I still have to remind myself they aren't a thing. Danth

Probably because you could just pick one up and punt it....not much of a ranger now, are ya, ya lil smelly, big hairy foot freak of nature!!

[brokenpromise]

I'm not a moon cat hater personally, but the sense I get is the people that do hate them (like R&N) kinda feel the game jumped the shark when it went to the moon at all. Not only did the old game itself change in massive ways (bazaar, spires, soul binders, etc.), but the new zones/NPCs just didn't feel at all like the old ones.

But if you really want to know, go dig through all R&N posts. I'm sure if you dig enough you'll find one of them talking about their moon cat hate :)

I get they hated the actual changed game mechanics. I'm not sure why everyone keeps talking about cats on the moon in a snarky way. This is a fantasy game. There is all sorts of things like that in game. I like the idea of races being on the moon. I like the idea of there being more than one world.

OMFG KAT DICKS ON THE MOON ROFLMAO LOLOL SO DUM

I dont get it

Hate on spires/pok books all you want. I smell what you're stepping in. I understand why you dont like that aspect.

[Deathrydar]

I get they hated the actual changed game mechanics. I'm not sure why everyone keeps talking about cats on the moon in a snarky way. This is a fantasy game. There is all sorts of things like that in game. I like the idea of races being on the moon. I like the idea of there being more than one world.

OMFG KAT DICKS ON THE MOON ROFLMAO LOLOL SO DUM

I dont get it

Hate on spires/pok books all you want. I smell what you're stepping in. I understand why you dont like that aspect.

Because...
it
ruined
the
game

smh

[loramin]

The mooncats were presented nothing like them, looked nothing like them, and instead were humanized hybrids meant apparently to appeal to 'furries.'

This actually raises another relevant detail: moon cats came out with the new (very unpopular among classicists) graphics engine.

If you wanted to see a "moon cat", you had to use that engine to do so. You could still opt to see the old fat/trolls, but of course most players went with unclassic skinny trolls (and other very different looking new models) ... and I think people who hate moon cats often have a hatred of new models woven together with their moon cat hatred.

[Danth]

and I think people who hate moon cats often have a hatred of new models woven in with it.

That definitely applies to me.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

and I think people who hate moon cats often have a hatred of new models woven together with their moon cat hatred.

I think they just didn't match the rest of the game. It's kind of like what they did to Freeport and the surrounding areas later......it didn't look right. If they updated everything, maybe......just maybe this would have worked.

[brokenpromise]

The cats on the moon weren't true to the original game. The original game had cat people--Kerrans. If those Kerrans were simply made a playable race starting on Kerra Isle I doubt there would've been much uproar. The mooncats were presented nothing like them, looked nothing like them, and instead were humanized hybrids meant apparently to appeal to 'furries.' It was out of place for the setting and typical of everything wrong with the aliens-on-the-moon expansion for what had previously been a fairly consistent high fantasy setting. Maybe the mooncats weren't a bad idea, but they were a bad idea for EQ.

I think gnome paladins and shadowknights are absent because gnomes are too manic to achieve a knightly sort of temperament. I'm not sure why halfling rangers are disallowed, to the point where even after 20 years I still have to remind myself they aren't a thing.

Danth

Bad idea for the setting that has lizard people and frog people? I sincerely doubt eq had a large furry fanbase that was clammering and demanding furry races. Was iksar introduced to satisfy people who had lizard fetishes?

I think the idea of races on other planets is pretty badass. I also like the idea of mixing a little scifi with fantasy. Shit. My brother ran a d&d quest where we were investigating a crashed UFO but the characters had no idea what it is.

Also. Remember the painting of the xenomorph in eq?

[brokenpromise]

Because...
it
ruined
the
game

smh

Are you just being a willful jackass or did you not read my post? I agree with everything except the vah shir lore. Just the fact vah shir were on luclin ruined the game? Just that fact alone?

[Deathrydar]

Are you just being a willful jackass or did you not read my post? I agree with everything except the vah shir lore. Just the fact vah shir were on luclin ruined the game? Just that fact alone?

No. I don't care about space kitties. I don't care too much about the moon either.

I care about things like making getting around the easier with the spires. And updating the character models. And making old world zones irrelevant. I wasn't a fan of some of the new spells released with the expansion either, they made a lot of classes' abilities irrelevant or gimped them in some way.

However, I did like AA points. I don't think they did them the best way they could have been, but they should have looked into better ways to advance your character and also personalize it to make it different from everyone else.

[Danth]

I think they just didn't match the rest of the game. It's kind of like what they did to Freeport and the surrounding areas later......it didn't look right. If they updated everything, maybe......just maybe this would have worked.

Yeah, same idea. It wasn't necessarily bad work taken standalone, but it didn't fit the setting.

---------------------------------------------------

brokenpromise: Nothing wrong with differing opinions, that's what forums are for. I mean they were a bad idea for the setting in that the lizard people looked like humanoid lizards from an anatomical standpoint, to the point where it's hard to tell male and female iksars apart (a buddy here on P99 played a female iksar monk for the better part of a year without realizing it). Same for the original Kerrans for that matter. But the mooncats? All wrong for a cat....it's not a cat, it's a human wearing a cat-suit. Hence--inconsistent with what the setting had previously portrayed. That's how I felt then and I still feel that way. If you like 'em, there's no disrespect from this quarter.

Danth

[Jimjam]

"Cats on the moon" was an overused phrase which became a meme to represent 'things about post Verant everquest which i was not so happy with".

It doesn't literally mean cats on the moon.

[pink grapefruit]

Can't believe we're talking about mooncats for the 8 billionth time in my super important gnome SK thread.

*sigh*

So I'm pretty sure the moon lore had been in the game the entire time, and was likely being tossed around by the devs as a possible expansion from a very early point. If the luclin expansion had not introduced lame mechanics like pvp safe zones, spires ports, horses, and the terrible "updated" graphics, it likely would have been received much better and a classic emulated project would likely include it in its timeline.

Like imagine if the only way to access the moon would be for a wizard to port you to the nexus (where pvp was still enabled), and then once there the other wizard and the druid ports required keys like the Velious ports. And the bazaar as a zone did not exist, and there were no "updated" graphics (vah shir models made in the same style as other classic races).

Don't blame the vah shir for what luclin did to the game. And don't blame the moon as a setting. It was bad mechanics introduced in luclin that doomed the game to mediocrity. If anything the vah shir and beastlords in general were innocent victims of short-sighted developers. They could have been so much more than what they were; but we unfairly lump them in with all the bad things because at the time they came as a package :(

[brokenpromise]

"Cats on the moon" was an overused phrase which became a meme to represent 'things about post Verant everquest which i was not so happy with".

It doesn't literally mean cats on the moon.

If you read this thread it would seem people say otherwise.

[Danth]

I agree with your assessment. At it's core Luclin is very much Kunark 2.0. It was bad in many ways but it did not necessarily have to be bad.

But we are indeed getting a little off-track. I've no personal interest in the short-race hybrids but neither do they overly offend me. As noted the Halfling Ranger's absence baffles me in particular.

Danth

[Jimjam]

If you read this thread it would seem people say otherwise.

Sure?

Read to me its sbollic of new graphis. Symbollic of new art style. Symbollic of higher detail models with worse animations and fewer textures. Symbollic of Sci fi elements creeping in and a departure from traditional fantasy themes.

They were an inescapable figurehead of most the things people didn't enjoy about luclin.

[brokenpromise]

Can't believe we're talking about mooncats for the 8 billionth time in my super important gnome SK thread.

*sigh*

So I'm pretty sure the moon lore had been in the game the entire time, and was likely being tossed around by the devs as a possible expansion from a very early point. If the luclin expansion had not introduced lame mechanics like pvp safe zones, spires ports, horses, and the terrible "updated" graphics, it likely would have been received much better and a classic emulated project would likely include it in its timeline.

Like imagine if the only way to access the moon would be for a wizard to port you to the nexus (where pvp was still enabled), and then once there the other wizard and the druid ports required keys like the Velious ports. And the bazaar as a zone did not exist, and there were no "updated" graphics (vah shir models made in the same style as other classic races).

Don't blame the vah shir for what luclin did to the game. And don't blame the moon as a setting. It was bad mechanics introduced in luclin that doomed the game to mediocrity. If anything the vah shir and beastlords in general were innocent victims of short-sighted developers. They could have been so much more than what they were; but we unfairly lump them in with all the other bad things because at the time they came as a package :(

Only thing I disagree with is the updated graphics bit. Otherwise you just mirrored my entire view.

I was pretty young when eq came out. I was like 11 or 12 when you luclin came out. I grew up with those graphics so I am very partial to them.

Honestly, why hate on the updated graphics? Ogres and trolls arent fat anymore?

[Jimjam]

I agree with your assessment. At it's core Luclin is very much Kunark 2.0. It was bad in many ways but it did not necessarily have to be bad.

But we are indeed getting a little off-track. I've no personal interest in the short-race hybrids but neither do they overly offend me. As noted the Halfling Ranger's absence baffles me in particular.

Danth

We can only assume as the master race and greatest class they were so far ahead they were already raiding the planes of power for the first 4 years before anyone else caught up with them.

[pink grapefruit]

Only thing I disagree with is the updated graphics bit. Otherwise you just mirrored my entire view.

I was pretty young when eq came out. I was like 11 or 12 when you luclin came out. I grew up with those graphics so I am very partial to them.

Honestly, why hate on the updated graphics? Ogres and trolls arent fat anymore?

Get out of my thread.

[brokenpromise]

Get out of my thread.

Mom..? Dad..?

[Gustoo]

Get out of my thread.

qft

[Danth]

Honestly, why hate on the updated graphics? Ogres and trolls arent fat anymore?

I regarded the style as a downgrade from the original art style. "Has twice the polygons, looks half as good" might sum up my feeling. Obviously that's subjective by nature so there'll be a wide range of opinion.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

I regarded the style as a downgrade from the original art style. "Has twice the polygons, looks half as good" might sum up my feeling. Obviously that's subjective by nature so there'll be a wide range of opinion.

Danth

Agreed! The original graphics have a sort of fantasy "humor", if you will, to them. I laugh my ass off, still to this day, when I see Ogres and Trolls interacting with the world. Even some of the Elf models are funny.....and the Dwarves....don't get me started!

They traded that "fun" style in for a more serious type of look and I just thought it brought the game to another place.

[Jimjam]

I regarded the style as a downgrade from the original art style. "Has twice the polygons, looks half as good" might sum up my feeling. Obviously that's subjective by nature so there'll be a wide range of opinion.

Danth

Agreed. Classic skins were art, luclin was just HD colouring in.

[Izmael]

Most of people who played back then and saw Luclin hit the game are still TRAUMATIZED by the Luclin models. Not even psychoanalysis can sort this out.

The new models were terrible on every single level.
- Not fun to look at as mentionned before. Classic ogres, dwarves, gnomes, halflings = teh win.
- Fugly faces and unhealthy smiles
- Cringy animations
- Some of them not even standing straight (High Elves IIRC)
- The terribad pet models (and sounds!)

Add to this the rest of the expansion that was also terrible, ugly, laggy and timesinky for the most part. This is where EQ went downhill (with a small rebound of hope @ PoP but it was already too late).

[Evia]

Only thing I disagree with is the updated graphics bit. Otherwise you just mirrored my entire view.

I was pretty young when eq came out. I was like 11 or 12 when you luclin came out. I grew up with those graphics so I am very partial to them.

Honestly, why hate on the updated graphics? Ogres and trolls arent fat anymore?

its the animations more than anything.

sitting/running/casting spells/swinging weapons all looked clunky and dumb

[Mblake81]

Most of people who played back then and saw Luclin hit the game are still TRAUMATIZED by the Luclin models.

The new models were terrible on every single level.
- Not fun to look at as mentionned before. Classic ogres, dwarves, gnomes, halflings = teh win.
- Fugly faces and unhealthy smiles
- Cringy animations
- Some of them not even standing straight (High Elves IIRC)
- The terribad pet models (and sounds!)

its the animations more than anything.

sitting/running/casting spells/swinging weapons all looked clunky and dumb

https://i.imgur.com/dQO9uQZ.jpg

[kaev]

its the animations more than anything.

sitting/running/casting spells/swinging weapons all looked clunky and dumb

So very very true. I liked the human & half-elf models themselves, but those awful animations... Also the Ogre and Troll models traded the comedy factor of the originals for a weak intersection of blah & yuk.

[aaezil]

Lol someone called crystal grinder a “good rogue weapon” in that screenshot

[Halfcell]

Yes. Yes! Please implement moon kitties and zones that make it so the old world zones are irrelevant. And also implement the Luclin spires so the community is broken when we don't need druids and wizards anymore.

Sounds great....

/smh

This is exactly what I meant. When was the last time you played Luclin, and how old were you when you did? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[loramin]

This is exactly what I meant. When was the last time you played Luclin, and how old were you when you did? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

/smh = "shaking my head" ... as in, the guy wasn't saying any of that because he believed it: he was shaking his head at it.

[ldgo86]

https://i.imgur.com/dQO9uQZ.jpg

Wow. Just. Yikes.

[pink grapefruit]

I agree with halfcell, to a point. Releasinig luclin would be great for the blue server, so long as some changes were made (spires, etc.). It really makes sense that the devs here are going with a recycling content sort of approach, but as everything cycles into blue it will get very stagnant. Luclin, or some sort of custom content, would be good to implement here.

But even that only goes so far...

All things must end, I suppose xD

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/dQO9uQZ.jpg
Wow. Just. Yikes.

I dunno, personally I don't hate those two models. They at least look very EverQuest-y, and in a sense they feel like faithful but "more 3D" versions of the old models.

What I just can't get over is some of the details (the male elf's teeth are cringy), and just in general the uncanny valley problem they all have ... plus of course other models like the Trolls, which are a radical departure from the originals.

[Danth]

--CENSORED--


That's a nice shot of the Velious UI (the Luclin UI wasn't actually patched in till well into that expansion's lifespan). Bonus points for auctioneers typing out item stats in the pre-link days.

EDIT: Loramin, since you don't hate them, I'll hate them triple so as to maintain proper balance in the universe.

Danth

[kaev]

I had forgotten that the high-elf/wood-elf models look like cosplay vulcans the morning after, yuk.

[loramin]

EDIT: Loramin, since you don't hate them, I'll hate them triple so as to maintain proper balance in the universe.

:D Just so we're clear, I'm not a fan of them (I ran all classic models except the elementals, back when we had a choice here). I just don't hate them.

I had forgotten that the high-elf/wood-elf models look like cosplay vulcans the morning after, yuk.

But to be fair, Vulcans are space elves.

[Snagglepuss]

Sure?

Read to me its sbollic of new graphis. Symbollic of new art style. Symbollic of higher detail models with worse animations and fewer textures. Symbollic of Sci fi elements creeping in and a departure from traditional fantasy themes.

They were an inescapable figurehead of most the things people didn't enjoy about luclin.

Is Rodcet Nife an alien? And is the Nife Temple in Qeynos a UFO. I never really was sure myself...

[loramin]

Is Rodcet Nife an alien? And is the Nife Temple in Qeynos a UFO. I never really was sure myself...

I'll let you decide for yourself. This is Rodcet Nife:

https://i.imgur.com/nebLDJB.jpg

[Chortles Snort|eS]

i've never seen what that god looked like until now
pretty dumb
a lot of eq lore was entirely skippable lets face it
and if not, such gems like this should be
not everything was great about eQ

[Mblake81]

Wow. Just. Yikes.

I dunno, personally I don't hate those two models. They at least look very EverQuest-y, and in a sense they feel like faithful but "more 3D" versions of the old models.

What I just can't get over is some of the details (the male elf's teeth are cringy), and just in general the uncanny valley problem they all have ... plus of course other models like the Trolls, which are a radical departure from the originals.

Everquest: The Cringes of Luclin coming this winter 2001! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaP9Bwdqubs)

:eek:
https://i.imgur.com/9eqk7iX.jpg

[Verityn]

Whoever thought up cats on the moon as the basis for an expansion pack was a genius, Jeff.

[DMN]

If you build it, furries will cum.

[Madbad]

The new race should have been weird rodcet nife aliens instead of moon cats

[Nilstoniakrath]

Can't believe we're talking about mooncats for the 8 billionth time in my super important gnome SK thread.

*sigh*

So I'm pretty sure the moon lore had been in the game the entire time, and was likely being tossed around by the devs as a possible expansion from a very early point. If the luclin expansion had not introduced lame mechanics like pvp safe zones, spires ports, horses, and the terrible "updated" graphics, it likely would have been received much better and a classic emulated project would likely include it in its timeline.

Like imagine if the only way to access the moon would be for a wizard to port you to the nexus (where pvp was still enabled), and then once there the other wizard and the druid ports required keys like the Velious ports. And the bazaar as a zone did not exist, and there were no "updated" graphics (vah shir models made in the same style as other classic races).

Don't blame the vah shir for what luclin did to the game. And don't blame the moon as a setting. It was bad mechanics introduced in luclin that doomed the game to mediocrity. If anything the vah shir and beastlords in general were innocent victims of short-sighted developers. They could have been so much more than what they were; but we unfairly lump them in with all the bad things because at the time they came as a package :(

The Spires. That was the single most lame feature of Luclin and why it can't be in classic. Trivializing moving around the world and greatly limiting the need for ports.

The Bazaar and AA's, have mixed feelings about. Yes, EC encourages social interaction, but also tunnelquesting and scamming. Automating selling has pros and cons too. AA's in theory could have been ok, but...

Many of the other bad things about Luclin, had already started in earlier expansions. Ridiculous ZEMs like Paludal? Kurns foreshadowed that. Gear inflation? All the expansions did that, really. The lore? Yeah, it sucked, but if that is the only complaint, I really don't care that much about that. The models? Again, I don't really care, more choices, more modern graphic-fine, lame animations-bad. Vah Shir, as a true neutral race, was just the polar opposite of the Iksar. Beastlords, as a warrior-shaman hybrid, fits in with paladins (WAR/CLE) SKs (WAR/NEC) and rangers (WAR/DRU).

And I actually liked the zone layouts in Luclin. Make it a continent, not a moon, get there by boat (plenty of unused docks in the older expansions that could have been the gateway) and they would have been fine.

Of course, this is all just idle chatter, Luclin will never see the light of day on p99 and that is all for the best. Plenty of other EQEMU servers to play on if you want Luclin.

[pink grapefruit]

The Spires. That was the single most lame feature of Luclin and why it can't be in classic. Trivializing moving around the world and greatly limiting the need for ports.

The Bazaar and AA's, have mixed feelings about. Yes, EC encourages social interaction, but also tunnelquesting and scamming. Automating selling has pros and cons too. AA's in theory could have been ok, but...

Many of the other bad things about Luclin, had already started in earlier expansions. Ridiculous ZEMs like Paludal? Kurns foreshadowed that. Gear inflation? All the expansions did that, really. The lore? Yeah, it sucked, but if that is the only complaint, I really don't care that much about that. The models? Again, I don't really care, more choices, more modern graphic-fine, lame animations-bad. Vah Shir, as a true neutral race, was just the polar opposite of the Iksar. Beastlords, as a warrior-shaman hybrid, fits in with paladins (WAR/CLE) SKs (WAR/NEC) and rangers (WAR/DRU).

And I actually liked the zone layouts in Luclin. Make it a continent, not a moon, get there by boat (plenty of unused docks in the older expansions that could have been the gateway) and they would have been fine.

Of course, this is all just idle chatter, Luclin will never see the light of day on p99 and that is all for the best. Plenty of other EQEMU servers to play on if you want Luclin.

hmmm

The spires were definitely one of the worst features of the expansion, but what really wins out in this sad contest of terrible mechanics was the introduction of pvp safe zones, including the bazaar. This changed trading in such a drastic way on the pvp servers, and not in a good way. Previously there was a lot more danger involved, as the money you had on you (not banked) could be looted following a pvp death. The bazaar being a safezone really watered down the experience of trading.

RIP, faymart. i wiill nvr 4get u *sheds tear*

also as a bard, let me just say: fuck horses. luclin models look their worst on a mount, but everyone wanted them on so they could all purchase one of my class-defining skills to use for themselves. lame.

[Jibartik]

I'll let you decide for yourself. This is Rodcet Nife:

https://i.imgur.com/nebLDJB.jpg

oh my god what the fu

[Jimjam]

Next expansion for P1999 is Legacy of Ykesha imho.

[Sonark]

hmmm
The bazaar being a safezone really watered down the experience of trading.

RIP, faymart. i wiill nvr 4get u *sheds tear*lolalso as a bard, let me just say: fuck horses. luclin models look their worst on a mount, but everyone wanted them on so they could all purchase one of my class-defining skills to use for themselves. lame.To this day, nothing beats Bard speed, so I don't really understand what you're mad about.

Or I do, and you're a crazy person.

[brokenpromise]

i've never seen what that god looked like until now
pretty dumb
a lot of eq lore was entirely skippable lets face it
and if not, such gems like this should be
not everything was great about eQ

I like when people let you know their opinion can be completely disregarded

[Ennewi]

i've never seen what that god looked like until now
pretty dumb
a lot of eq lore was entirely skippable lets face it
and if not, such gems like this should be
not everything was great about eQ

Not all powerful beings are supposed to match the expectations of mortals. Sometimes it's the one you least suspect--the man behind the curtain, the mule in Asimov's The Foundation, Keyser Soze, Yoda, etc.

Someone else argued that Brell shouldn't be a Paladin god, but he fits the race/class perfectly imo. Dwarves mine and smith steel from below. The identity of the classic holy knight has more or less been associated with a sword and suit of armor, both of which wouldn't exist with out miners and blacksmiths. Devotion to their god would, even on a superstitious level, reflect whether and to what extent believers would hit paydirt. In this case, the sword wouldn't descend from the heavens (https://youtu.be/9oSJdSL8YOE) into a field or emerge from a fabled pond or stand out from exposed stone. Instead, the unrefined materials would be hauled from the depths then, in keeping with tradition, heirlooms would be crafted to resemble relics and eventually become relics of their own. Smithing would be considered a monastic ritual/ceremonial rite. Weapons and armor would not only be fashioned to protect their bodies, but to exalt their creator in preparation of meeting him should they die in battle, thus adding religious significance to the upkeep of their uniforms, beyond the usual discipline/attention to detail shown in military life. And in every war the crusaders would be emboldened wielding the manifestations of their faith, themselves having acted as their god had in creating them, unearthing potential in the compacted darkness. So it makes sense that the race would have significantly better cultural armor than others.

Others have said that Tunare shouldn't be a deity available to Paladins because nature has aspects that are unforgiving and amoral, but that observation ignores the rl lore most are familiar with--the archangel barring entry into the garden of Eden with a flaming 2h sword. Uriel, the equivalent of an Aasimar Oath of Vengeance Paladin.

Also, some rl mythological/religious figures are considered to be evil and good within any two denominations just based on interpretation of original texts. (See: Abaddon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon), better known from DotA2.) This sort of ambiguity makes for better lore imo, but it can also create balancing issues in games like these.

If anything, more deities could have been made available across racial divides, if not initially than through high level quests allowing players to renounce their god and convert to a different belief or abandon faith altogether, forever altering faction alignments. Certain NPCs (https://wiki.project1999.com/Brother_Drash) were shown to have accomplished as much.

As for expanding race/class combinations? Seeing a halfling paladin once or twice hasn't been an immersion killer, similar to botb titles, but that may be due to the rarity of both. Thankfully halfling/gnome masks are ultra-rare, making the effect not much different from seeing guides in post-Velious gear or in the form of NPC races. It's an earned reward that adds flavor to interactions and RP potential for those who deviate from min/max norms.

[elwing]

Next expansion for P1999 is Legacy of Ykesha imho.

Didn't like that expac.... But well pirates! Yaar !

[Mblake81]

also as a bard, let me just say: fuck horses. luclin models look their worst on a mount, but everyone wanted them on so they could all purchase one of my class-defining skills to use for themselves. lame.

Yeah I remember the complaints back in the day. Seeing people ride around on horses was terrible in comparison to the original game. Also game breaking in that it allowed spell casters to med while moving around. You could be kiting and medding at the same time.. anything.. anything to avoid having to sit or have "downtime". DAoC, Shadowbane were out around this time with their high speed play styles. This would become a staple in WoWcraft. The hyperADD was kicking in full force with the new competition on the market. EQ wanted to become everything that everyone else was doing.. all that "innovation" which was stripping out RPG elements for ease and convenience.

oh my god what the fu

Didn't know anything about that guy until a few years ago. The EQ manual had some lore information but I didn't know he was an alien... well, not really. They come from some land on Norrath but are not space aliens. Its dumb.

I do remember loading up EQ for the first time and creating a character. I clicked each diety I could worship and wondered how this would play out in game. I could worship dragons, I wonder what that would do. The Xfiles was big during the 90s so maybe one of the developers was a fan.. who knows. Its out of place in a high fantasy setting. Perhaps drug induced.. I would lean to this explanation more when you consider Luclin.. surely the team had money by this point and was loaded on some wacky drugs. How else could you explain it. :o

[Jimjam]

Its a reference to panspermia.

[PieOats]

Throwing my support behind our citrusian sister. The Vale has a rich history of zealous propagation of hobbit creed and warriors whomst choose to openly worship false deities, should not be barred from integrating their faith with the good work they do.

The prohibition on hobbit rangers and paladins is a gross display of religious bigotry and should not be tolerated! Rogean, kindly correct this iniquity.

Many thanks,

a hobbit

[Deathrydar]

Throwing my support behind our citrusian sister. The Vale has a rich history of zealous propagation of hobbit creed and warriors whomst choose to openly worship false deities, should not be barred from integrating their faith with the good work they do.

The prohibition on hobbit rangers and paladins is a gross display of religious bigotry and should not be tolerated! Rogean, kindly correct this iniquity.

Many thanks,

a hobbit

HOw much non-classic content are you guys gonna request?

[Jimjam]

Will Rivervale Vanguard be making an appearance on green?

[Puluin]

I do believe everyone's argument over the nexus ruining porting is a dumb argument. And hypocritical.

Nexus only takes you between the main spires nexus - gfay - nk - Tox - DL. You still had to get a wiz or dru port or run your happy little pixel to FP or Qeynos or literally any zone on the mainland outside of NK.

I mean who the hell wants to run from NK to FP ??

Druids and wizards were still heavily used for ports during Luclin.

Also who the hell wants to take two boat rides at 3am when you finally get a hole group while auctioning in gfay?

I can 100% say withour a doubt, none of you want to make that hour or two long run when no porter can be found.

Dial a port as a guild is not classic. There was no taxi guild on live and no global chat. Which means if you weren't lucky to find a porter in the zone you're in, you start scouring your friends list.

Good luck at 2-4am....

Waiting 15min for a port to nexus and then 15min more to get to one of the 4 spires was merely a consolation prize for those not waiting to boat.

[Deathrydar]

I do believe everyone's argument over the nexus ruining porting is a dumb argument. And hypocritical.

Nexus only takes you between the main spires nexus - gfay - nk - Tox - DL. You still had to get a wiz or dru port or run your happy little pixel to FP or Qeynos or literally any zone on the mainland outside of NK.

I mean who the hell wants to run from NK to FP ??

Druids and wizards were still heavily used for ports during Luclin.

Also who the hell wants to take two boat rides at 3am when you finally get a hole group while auctioning in gfay?

I can 100% say withour a doubt, none of you want to make that hour or two long run when no porter can be found.

Dial a port as a guild is not classic. There was no taxi guild on live and no global chat. Which means if you weren't lucky to find a porter in the zone you're in, you start scouring your friends list.

Good luck at 2-4am....

Waiting 15min for a port to nexus and then 15min more to get to one of the 4 spires was merely a consolation prize for those not waiting to boat.

Wrong! I want the long run. Thanks and have fun playing non-classic, classic Everquest!

[loramin]

Next expansion for P1999 is Legacy of Ykesha imho.

https://i.imgur.com/RNQMx81.gif

Didn't like that expac.... But well pirates! Yaar !

You and everyone else. Or if they did like it, they liked it for all the non-content stuff: LoY gave us armor dyes, shared bank slot, Frogloks, something other than a horse to ride on, etc.

But SOE screwed up the content part. They basically made what should have been the sequel to Velious, but made it as the sequel to PoP. Almost every zone in LoY was for P99/classic levels (ie. 60 and under).

Now true there was MUDflation, so a level 60 in LoY had much better gear than we have, and true the final zone in the expansion was for higher level characters, and would need to be tuned down a little (or converted into more of a raid zone or something) here ...

... but really LoY was way, way closer to classic Everquest than either of the expansions before it. It was set on Norath, filled with classic mobs like ogres and trolls, had mostly classic level ranges, etc. Basically it was just "more old school zones, but pirate themed!"

That was exactly what a bunch of 100-AA point-having level 65s from PoP didn't want ... which is why the expansion isn't remembered fondly by most players ... and it's exactly why I'd love to see some version of it here.

We could all suffer through skinny pirate troll models (maybe pirate trolls have poor nutrition?) if it meant getting five official (well, semi-official, but customized to P99) classic-ish zones to level in ... right?

[Daldaen]

Nexus Spires are just another flavor of boats. Limited entry and exit points, long wait times while you sit still. Druids and Wizards vastly superior.

Luclin launch for Blue would be great though. Lots of good content in that expansion, plus a lot of quality of life additions. You’d actually earn your pet window for example.

[Deathrydar]

Nexus Spires are just another flavor of boats. Limited entry and exit points, long wait times while you sit still. Druids and Wizards vastly superior.

Luclin launch for Blue would be great though. Lots of good content in that expansion, plus a lot of quality of life additions. You’d actually earn your pet window for example.

I really can't believe the BS I am seeing. That is a complete disregard for the actual vision for this project and a complete spit in the face to it as well.

[loramin]

I really can't believe the BS I am seeing. That is a complete disregard for the actual vision for this project and a complete spit in the face to it as well.

Just FYI, you're replying to one of the Project's most significant classic research contributors. I don't know his exact bug-filing stats, but Dald is almost certainly in the top ten list of players on this server most responsible for helping to realize "the actual vision for this project".

... even so, he's allowed to have a different opinion on the spires. :)

[Deathrydar]

Just FYI, you're replying to one of the Project's most significant classic research contributors. I don't know his exact bug-filing stats, but Dald is almost certainly in the top ten list of players on this server most responsible for realizing "the actual vision for this project".

... even so, he's allowed to have a different opinion on the spires. :)

You're right!

And I apologize to him and anyone else offended by my post. I take things a bit too seriously sometimes.

I just get upset when I see something that was worked so hard for (not by me) and then you see it being destroyed the same......exact......way it was destroyed 18 years ago. I have to keep faith in the devs that they would never soil this project like that!

[loramin]

You're right!

And I apologize to him and anyone else offended by mypost. Seriously, I'm sorry and I take things a bit too seriously.

Heh, well this is a place for passionate nerds :) I certainly would put myself in that category, and I imagine Dald would do.

And if you want to hassle him ... hassle him for going and playing on live for awhile ... ew ... :confused:

[Fammaden]

I really can't believe the BS I am seeing. That is a complete disregard for the actual vision for this project and a complete spit in the face to it as well.

It doesn't really matter man, the staff are on record that Luclin is never coming. The entire project stops at Velious, that's always been true.

But for blue any sort of custom content is potentially on the table. Which could mean some LoY themed zones, some QoL stuff from later expansions, who knows. Probably not coming any time soon but its likely for a future of blue if the whole project keeps going. But a full Luclin, not remotely likely.

I'm ok with that since now there will be green for people to have the unadulterated experience. It would be ideal to have a permanent version of green for characters to retire from and then a recycling green, but the logistics of opening another server are more than we can reasonably expect. Plus we have three plus years of the first green to get through before its a concern anyway.

[Daldaen]

My point is don’t ask for shit that happened out of era unless you want to accept all of it.

You want Cycle Target Hotkeys, accept Luclin, PoP, LoY, LDoN and GoD.

You want pet window and hybrid shorties, accept Luclin.

People picking and choosing stuff is non-sense on classic servers. There’s thousands that play here, everyone’s picks will be different and you’re never going to please everyone so the best and most logical option is to go whole hog. Accept everything in an era or accept none of it.

For the record I think Luclin and PoP stick very well into the classic game spirit though. They bring balance more in line across all classes, the PoP storyline is pretty good, it provides value of raiding and grouping across several eras of content, and when the game was becoming so large that traveling became unwieldy, PoKnowledge helps the casual player manage the new size of the game while still keeping value in Druid and Wizard ports, but not making them necessary to join groups across the continent from your current location. I’d even add LoY and LDoN to this as well. GoD is really where I think the deviation from classic begins, though it was one of the best raid expansions once it got a tuning pass IMO.

[bradsamma]

I for one would love to see the project taken to PoP.... I know I'm in the minority however.

[Daldaen]

I for one would love to see the project taken to PoP.... I know I'm in the minority however.

You really aren’t though.

As the most recent changes have shown the real reason people play here is because it’s free and it’s a high population server with minimal boxing. People really aren’t clinging to the Velious era that much.

[Danth]

Which means you guys should really be over on TAKP forums trying to convince them to open a no-box server instead of pushing for that stuff here. That seems like a much more sensible approach to me.

Danth

[Mblake81]

My point is don’t ask for shit that happened out of era unless you want to accept all of it.

You want Cycle Target Hotkeys, accept Luclin, PoP, LoY, LDoN and GoD.

You want pet window and hybrid shorties, accept Luclin.

People picking and choosing stuff is non-sense on classic servers. There’s thousands that play here, everyone’s picks will be different and you’re never going to please everyone so the best and most logical option is to go whole hog. Accept everything in an era or accept none of it.

GoD is really where I think the deviation from classic begins, though it was one of the best raid expansions once it got a tuning pass IMO.

I agree.

I will agree to disagree with the last bit. Cohesion started falling apart with Kunark imo. :)

As the most recent changes have shown the real reason people play here is because it’s free and it’s a high population server with minimal boxing. People really aren’t clinging to the Velious era that much.

Some have asked for boxing, you can probably find threads/comments if you search. But yeah I have had people in game tell me the reason they play is because its free. Its a good thing the devs here, while liberal with some things, are not with others. Once you open that gate... good luck closing it!

[Deathrydar]

Which means you guys should really be over on TAKP forums trying to convince them to open a no-box server instead of pushing for that stuff here. That seems like a much more sensible approach to me.

Danth

^^

[sedrie.bellamie]

FV could use a soulbinder

[loramin]

You really aren’t though.

As the most recent changes have shown the real reason people play here is because it’s free and it’s a high population server with minimal boxing. People really aren’t clinging to the Velious era that much.

Which means you guys should really be over on TAKP forums trying to convince them to open a no-box server instead of pushing for that stuff here. That seems like a much more sensible approach to me.

Danth

Yes yes and yes! I think what people fail to realize is how hard it is to start a server. Like even if you could magically hire Rogean and Nilbog to do all the technical work for you (good luck with that), there's still a HUGE amount of work needed to build community, support the server etc.

This place is NOT as successful as it is because everyone who plays here shares R&N's obsession with classic EQ! To the contrary, I truly think the vast majority would like to see Luclin and PoP. Hell, most people left around LDoN (as that's when WoW came out), so R&N are kinda "freaks" (in a sense, among the set of all people who played EQ back in the day) for leaving after Velious.

But the critical thing that they've done, that neither TakP nor any other server has managed to do, is build a real community (which all but requires no boxing). That's all it would take to steal half or more of the players here away: a decent community, and any expansion P99 doesn't have ... but if it were easy to do someone (TakP or whoever else) would have done it long ago.

[Mblake81]

FV could use a soulbinder

:D
*clicks harm touch*
https://i.imgur.com/X44anLp.jpg

[loramin]

Ha, so I have to take back what I think I said somewhere in this thread about never having seen R&N weigh in on these class/race combination. In fact, Nilbog has ... almost exactly a decade ago, when he first announced P99 Blue:

-Classic class/race combinations only - Halfling rangers, paladins. Gnome Shadowknights and paladins.. are off the menu.


So maybe they've changed their mind in the decade since (I'm not sure the R&N of ten years ago would have allowed pet windows, for instance, so there may still be hope), but for now it seems clear that the expectation is such class/race combos will never exist here, unless R&N make an about face.

[pink grapefruit]

Throwing my support behind our citrusian sister. The Vale has a rich history of zealous propagation of hobbit creed and warriors whomst choose to openly worship false deities, should not be barred from integrating their faith with the good work they do.

The prohibition on hobbit rangers and paladins is a gross display of religious bigotry and should not be tolerated! Rogean, kindly correct this iniquity.

Many thanks,

a hobbit

<3333

easily best post of the thread, thx u xD

[LordRayken]

I wouldn't feel bad with adding some additional class combinations. It has to make sense thematically though.

Since Gnomes can be Necromancers and Warriors I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to pursue Shadow Knight.

On the same token I can understand why Erudite society would not foster Warriors but some could be trained as Shadow Knights.

Halfling Ranger makes total sense, and I can't see why anyone would argue against their inclusion. Paladin, on the other hand, doesn't really fit at all with Halfling culture or society.

What about Halfling Bards?

There are some very cool combinations that would ultimately not fit very well with lore. There could be some "corrupted" Barbarians who start in Neriak that are Shadow Knights - thematically it's really cool, but gamewise... I just don't know how that would fit.

Ogre Monk would obviously be cool, but it has no chance of working in any way. Getting slammed by an Ogre's fist would be nice I'm sure.

Perhaps Wood Elves could be Shamans?

Perhaps we could figure out which races are played the least and give them some attention class wise.

[soronil]

I wouldn't feel bad with adding some additional class combinations. It has to make sense thematically though.
...
Perhaps we could figure out which races are played the least and give them some attention class wise.

I would think There's a big difference between adding the combos that Sony added in 2002 and coming up with new ones. For the 2002 combos the vendors/GMs/quests/item info is all out there, just has to be added/enabled/whatever. I'm sure it's work, but not as much work as coming up with stuff from scratch. Big difference between adding combos that have been in everquest for 85% of it's life vs making up stuff based on server pop!

[loramin]

On the same token I can understand why Erudite society would not foster Warriors but some could be trained as Shadow Knights.

This one actually makes sense to me. The Erudites are all about ... erudition :) They won't embrace any profession that doesn't require intelligence and thought.

A Shadow Knight still has to study books, and therefore makes sense as an Erudite: a Warrior doesn't.

[LordRayken]

I would think There's a big difference between adding the combos that Sony added in 2002 and coming up with new ones. For the 2002 combos the vendors/GMs/quests/item info is all out there, just has to be added/enabled/whatever. I'm sure it's work, but not as much work as coming up with stuff from scratch. Big difference between adding combos that have been in everquest for 85% of it's life vs making up stuff based on server pop!

I'm not even looking past Velious. Whatever is added would need to be created in the vein of the EQ, Kunark, and Velious world. I don't want anything from 2002 "enabled" but instead would prefer to see it as if it always existed in the original era.

Barbarian Shadow Knight is still one of the most interesting ones to me.

Or Barbarian Monk.

[kaev]

I do believe everyone's argument over the nexus ruining porting is a dumb argument. And hypocritical.

Nexus only takes you between the main spires nexus - gfay - nk - Tox - DL. You still had to get a wiz or dru port or run your happy little pixel to FP or Qeynos or literally any zone on the mainland outside of NK.

I mean who the hell wants to run from NK to FP ??

Druids and wizards were still heavily used for ports during Luclin.

Also who the hell wants to take two boat rides at 3am when you finally get a hole group while auctioning in gfay?

I can 100% say withour a doubt, none of you want to make that hour or two long run when no porter can be found.

Dial a port as a guild is not classic. There was no taxi guild on live and no global chat. Which means if you weren't lucky to find a porter in the zone you're in, you start scouring your friends list.

Good luck at 2-4am....

Waiting 15min for a port to nexus and then 15min more to get to one of the 4 spires was merely a consolation prize for those not waiting to boat.

You're wasting your time, the TrueBelievers have embraced their false reality construction using the magic of cognitive dissonance and you will never sway them (much like political partisans irl, sadly.)

Luclin spires were fine, same sort of "wait for it, oh and then you have to make a long run besides" mechanic as the boats. The rest of Luclin expac mostly sucked tho.

[Danth]

Halfling Rangers and Iksar Rogues are both cases where I routinely forget they're NOT options in the game already.

Half elven Clerics seem to me to be another flagrant omission. I understand that some peoples might discriminate against the half-breed race and refuse to ordain them (even if they'll train them as Paladins) but I cannot accept that absolutely ALL the many different factions in the world would discriminate equally. That's one heck of a deep conspiracy.

On the other side of it, Troll and Ogre Shadow Knights make little sense, as both are primitive monster races which have no notion of a knightly code of honor. In reality they exist because 989/VI wanted all races to have at least three options and the SK was the "least bad" choice for the monster races. Sometimes game design becomes a case of shoehorning something in then coming up with an excuse for it after the fact.

Danth

[kaev]

Which means you guys should really be over on TAKP forums trying to convince them to open a no-box server instead of pushing for that stuff here. That seems like a much more sensible approach to me.

Danth

Aye, instead of breaking p99 create alternative goodness to complement it.

[Danth]

You're wasting your time, the TrueBelievers have embraced their false reality construction using the magic of cognitive dissonance and you will never sway them (much like political partisans irl, sadly.)

Luclin spires were fine, same sort of "wait for it, oh and then you have to make a long run besides" mechanic as the boats. The rest of Luclin expac mostly sucked tho.

Spires didn't bother me. There was a lot I hated about Luclin but the spires didn't matter to me. That being said the manner of their implementation (Nexus Scion NPCs) seemed characteristic of the increasingly lazy and greedy management EQ was falling prey to by that time. It would get worse soon enough, and I didn't stick around to see if it ever got better again.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Iksar rogues are in the game as NPCs.

[Sonark]

I'd think Rogues are probably too cowardly and low-key for Iksar.

Rogues don't really qualify for a number of reasons.

[loramin]

Barbarian Shadow Knight is still one of the most interesting ones to me.

Or Barbarian Monk.

Personally I don't think either of those fit. Barbarians are too ... barbaric to be monks. I mean, a giant Scotsman (what they basically are) is almost literally as far away as you can get (geographically and conceptually) from a Buddhist Monk.

As for Shadow Knights, Barbarians have always been a "good" race. Heck, even their "evil" members (Rogues) are less evil than most: they're not lurking in some sewer or something, they're running the town bank! :)

On Sullon Zek Barbarians actually got to be Paladins, and I think that fits better than Shadow Knights (though still not great).

Plus ... Barbs would make terrible SKs for the same reason Erudites make great SKs: SKs require intelligence (and Barbs are dumb). In fact, the more I think about it, the more I remember Barbarians and Erudites are meant to be opposites (Barbs are humans taken to the dumb/strong extreme, and Erudites are humans taken to the smart/weak extreme). Really the two should never overlap class-wise.

[pink grapefruit]

On Sullon Zek Barbarians actually got to be Paladins

nope

[Sonark]

Barbarian rogues don't seem to make sense until you remember your introduction to Conan the Barbarian.

[Verityn]

Barbarian rogues don't seem to make sense until you remember your introduction to Conan the Barbarian.

I don't know if it's like this on p1999, but I remember how easy it was to lose enough faction with the rogue guild that you could no longer use the bank in Halas by just doing a few newbie warrior quests.

It's as if the Barbarian rogues are the worldly group and the warrior/shaman reject that life style. They don't seem to have any ulterior motives or plotting schemes like some of the other rogue factions.

[loramin]

nope

Oh you're right, they didn't even get that much: on Sullon Zek they got to be Warriors who worshipped Mithaniel Marr, but that was it. But still, they were clearly more "good" than "bad."

I don't know if it's like this on p1999, but I remember how easy it was to lose enough faction with the rogue guild that you could no longer use the bank in Halas by just doing a few newbie warrior quests.

Still that way here, but it's overblown.

If you were a normal player, you did gnoll fangs and goblin ice beads and all those stupid quests as you leveled, and they raised all your Halas factions (including the Rogues). This made it so that if you only did the Longseaux quest once, it didn't lower your Rogue faction enough to be a problem when you banked.

It was only if you skipped over all the early quests, and/or repeated Longeaux for plat, that you could/can make the Rogues/Banker hate you.

[PieOats]

Personally I don't think either of those fit. Barbarians are too ... barbaric to be monks. I mean, a giant Scotsman (what they basically are) is almost literally as far away as you can get (geographically and conceptually) from a Buddhist Monk.

As for Shadow Knights, Barbarians have always been a "good" race. Heck, even their "evil" members (Rogues) are less evil than most: they're not lurking in some sewer or something, they're running the town bank! :)

On Sullon Zek Barbarians actually got to be Paladins, and I think that fits better than Shadow Knights (though still not great).

Plus ... Barbs would make terrible SKs for the same reason Erudites make great SKs: SKs require intelligence (and Barbs are dumb). In fact, the more I think about it, the more I remember Barbarians and Erudites are meant to be opposites (Barbs are humans taken to the dumb/strong extreme, and Erudites are humans taken to the smart/weak extreme). Really the two should never overlap class-wise.

HIGHLY DISCRIMINATORY (and inflammatory) post riddled with overtly *racist and bigoted* themes.

Among them:

1st.) casting Barbarians as savage subhumans incapable of martial discipline or INNER FOCUS *strokes phantom beard contemplatively*
TWOnd) regarding shadow knights, a diverse lot of corpsefncking noblemen with varied and COMPETING allegiances as a single religious sect.
3rd.) suggesting Erudites are somehow uniquely suited to the profession of ennobled corpsfnckery.

Rogean, please ban Loramin.

[deadlycupcakez]

take the pet windows away again in response to this thread

[LordRayken]

Personally I don't think either of those fit. Barbarians are too ... barbaric to be monks. I mean, a giant Scotsman (what they basically are) is almost literally as far away as you can get (geographically and conceptually) from a Buddhist Monk.

As for Shadow Knights, Barbarians have always been a "good" race. Heck, even their "evil" members (Rogues) are less evil than most: they're not lurking in some sewer or something, they're running the town bank! :)

On Sullon Zek Barbarians actually got to be Paladins, and I think that fits better than Shadow Knights (though still not great).

Plus ... Barbs would make terrible SKs for the same reason Erudites make great SKs: SKs require intelligence (and Barbs are dumb). In fact, the more I think about it, the more I remember Barbarians and Erudites are meant to be opposites (Barbs are humans taken to the dumb/strong extreme, and Erudites are humans taken to the smart/weak extreme). Really the two should never overlap class-wise.

I think Barbarians are wise and noble beings and can easily adhere to the kind of disciplined martial prowess Monks display. I can see them meditating in the cold north with nothing but a kilt on against the elements, fighting with fists and kicking.

also - I was kind of imagining a "corrupt" Barbarian sect that started in Neriak or something as SKs. Ogres and Trolls are dumb too and they're SKs so.

But yeah, Halfling Ranger, Gnome SK, Iksar Rogue, Wood Elf Shaman, Half-Elf Cleric, all seem like legitimate combinations.

[loramin]

HIGHLY DISCRIMINATORY (and inflammatory) post riddled with overtly *racist and bigoted* themes.

Among them:

1st.) casting Barbarians as savage subhumans incapable of martial discipline or INNER FOCUS *strokes phantom beard contemplatively*
TWOnd) regarding shadow knights, a diverse lot of corpsefncking noblemen with varied and COMPETING allegiances as a single religious sect.
3rd.) suggesting Erudites are somehow uniquely suited to the profession of ennobled corpsfnckery.

Rogean, please ban Loramin.

That's got to be one of my favorite rebuttals to a post, ever.

[Nilstoniakrath]

You're wasting your time, the TrueBelievers have embraced their false reality construction using the magic of cognitive dissonance and you will never sway them (much like political partisans irl, sadly.)

Luclin spires were fine, same sort of "wait for it, oh and then you have to make a long run besides" mechanic as the boats. The rest of Luclin expac mostly sucked tho.

I strongly disagree. The spires required a much shorter wait (14:59 at most) with periodic system messages alerting when the next "beam-up" would occur. The beam-up itself was instantaneous.

The boats, on the other hand, were run by a company of druids, were down at least half the time, and even when running had intervals approaching 45 minutes or more. Once on the boat, you still had more time to kill while the boat cruised along at a snail's pace.

[pink grapefruit]

That's got to be one of my favorite rebuttals to a post, ever.

agree 100%.

sorry loramin; you're out :(

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Big J with the army of forum acctS

https://i.imgur.com/dnD0gad.gif

😬

[Sonark]

But yeah, Halfling Ranger, Gnome SK, Iksar Rogue, Wood Elf Shaman, Half-Elf Cleric, all seem like legitimate combinations.Halfling Rangers and Gnome Shadow Knights exist on Live. Paladins for both races as well, I think.

Woolf Elves get to be Beastlords, but that's as close as they get.

Rogues wouldn't survive in Iksar society. They're too blunt.

It's really easy to finagle head canon to be whatever, but it's really easy to see why they've made the decisions that they've made.

[scifo76]

I saw an iksar rogue in Field of Bone.

[Sonark]

And he wasn't a part of Iksar society, was he

[LordRayken]

Halfling Rangers and Gnome Shadow Knights exist on Live. Paladins for both races as well, I think.

Woolf Elves get to be Beastlords, but that's as close as they get.

Rogues wouldn't survive in Iksar society. They're too blunt.

It's really easy to finagle head canon to be whatever, but it's really easy to see why they've made the decisions that they've made.

I don't consider live. EQ died to me in 2002/2003. There is no "live EQ" to me. Whatever it is, is not what 989 created.

[Barantor]

And he wasn't a part of Iksar society, was he

Most of the SKs and Necros aren't really part of their societies with other races. Gnomes, Erudites and Humans.

[Sonark]

Yup, keep reaching.

[Sonark]

I don't consider live. EQ died to me in 2002/2003. There is no "live EQ" to me. Whatever it is, is not what 989 created.Even the game they wanted to make isn't what they made.

But at least you specified "died to me" (emphasis mine)

[PieOats]

<3333

easily best post of the thread, thx u xD

Yore cause is Just, my dear.
*slaps DAT ASS and waddles out*

[Lhord99]

Chortles out here on this thursday

[Muggens]

Why not? Im all for custom content in lieu with classic EQ.
As long as I dont have to see the abbomination that is Luclin graphics, Vah-Shir and paludal caverns

[Ivory]

I think all combinations should be allowed.....EXCEPT it requires a special unlock process approved by GMs!

Basically, to become something like a gnome ranger, you must first strive for it as a gnome warrior (or rogue).

Then always live as though you were a ranger....trying to be the best ranger you can be and achieving great things to earn recognition as a true ranger from the gods.

So perhaps you begin only using a bow, and refuse to fight animals....then collect magical trinkets that give you ranger-like abilities (such as a bit of healing, snare, root). And set off to fight dragons and all sorts of heroic ranger things.

Once you have earned enough reputation on the server as "a gnome ranger", earned fame and done amazing things proving yourself....THEN you could truly become a gnome ranger and have it fully unlocked.

Same system for every race / class. Let the players really earn it in the game. And if they can build up enough reputation and tell a good enough story of their adventures, make it a rare exception.