What is your experience with the new lighting system?

[Byrjun]

I played on Green beta for a few hours, and something really strange happened. I've played this game a million times over the past 20 years, but I got hit with a powerful sense of nostalgia that I hadn't felt before. I knew that EQ lost a bit of its atmosphere or "soul" without the classic lighting system, but I didn't realize the extent of that loss.

That said, I don't think the system is perfect and I wanted to share my experiences to see what people thought.

First character: Erudite

I logged into Toxxulia, it was night and raining and I couldn't see a damn thing, as expected. But I was also surprised by just how bright the game became during the day.

About the only weirdness that I experienced with the Erudite was how different the starter candle and a fire beetle eye were. The starter candle cast a very strong hard light in a short radius around my character, and outside of that radius was complete darkness.

The fire beetle eye on the other hand has a very different light. It's much softer, more like a dull orange light, as opposed to the bright white light of the candle. However, this dull orange light extended out further than the candle light. I tended to prefer the fire beetle eye because of this, but they were both pretty bad.

I don't really remember light sources looking so different, and actually switching between different types of light sources to use depending on my environment, but maybe that's accurate. I'm not sure.

I also noticed a big difference between the way that the lighting worked depending on whether I was in windowed mode or full screen mode. Unfortunately full screen didn't work very well for me, so I don't have much more to say about this.

Second character: Ogre

This is the one I'm really confused about. Ogres are supposed to start with infravision, but honestly I couldn't tell much difference between the Ogre and the Erudite. I definitely DID NOT feel like my vision problems were solved. In fact, I often felt more blind in The Feerrott and Innothule on my Ogre than I did on my Erudite in Toxxulia. A big part of this is the lack of a starter candle or fire beetle eyes. But I'm still a bit surprised by how blind Ogres are.

I was able to turn up my gamma, which helped a lot in the complete darkness (aka I cheated), but it's temporary as the gamma resets as soon as you alt tab the window. I've heard other people say that they can't adjust the gamma at all in-game, so not sure why I'm able to.

Questions

If you played an infravision race like Ogre, how did it compare to a blind/human race? Could you notice a big difference? Did your Ogre (or other character) have blindness problems?

Do you notice a big difference between different types of light sources? Do you remember this being a thing in classic EQ? (Because I don't.)

[Deathrydar]

I have been running around testing this for over a week now. I tested a Troll in Innothule last night and it was fine. I will try an Ogre, but the next time I can log on in Thursday night.

Also there is an entire sticky thread that is dedicated to this conversation.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

Left my stream running overnight if you’d like to see day/night cycles as a DE and then TRL

[Byrjun]

I have been running around testing this for over a week now. I tested a Troll in Innothule last night and it was fine.

This was during both day and night? Because the contrast is huge. Days seem fine even as a human. Nights are a hellscape.

Also there is an entire sticky thread that is dedicated to this conversation.

Cool, I can obviously see that. I didn't feel like I was really submitting a bug report or feedback, hence the questions in my post. I feel like a thousand people are going to get a thousand different results due to differences in PCs/monitors/settings/etc. I don't want to claim that the entire system is broken just because of my own confusing experiences. Besides, that thread atm is mainly a guy trolling other people into believing that they can get aquavision if they worship Prexus.

[dekova]

My experience is that there's little difference between normal and infra vision during the day, but it's unmistakable at night. I think they've pretty much got the vision thing nailed, though a couple quirks do still exist (boats at night being an example).

I can't imagine how much work this was to implement, I'm incredibly grateful.

Edit: It sounds like all the testing you did was in fog zones. Try creating a human in freeport and comparing that to a half elf in freeport.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

I did have to bump my gamma up recently
It was that dark after a CR at night

[magusfire24]

I think I put mine recently at 20% . wont go higher than that. and still pretty dark. But I like it

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't have any details really, but what threw me off is how sudden and significant lighting can be in certain areas. Like an evil human running through the tunnels in EFP. There are areas where it's very dark, as expected, you can just barely make out where you're going without a good light source. But then all of a sudden there's a corner with a bright green/yellow lighting that has no apparent source. And you round the corner and it's an equally bright light from no apparent source but in a different shade. Stuff like that. I seem to remember feeling similar when moving around inside Erudin with an erudite.

Maybe it's classic, I have absolutely no clue. It just surprised me.

I remember lightning being one of my favorite parts of Neriak back in the day (it's probably the only city I was in enough that I am sure I'm remembering it from classic and not from 8+ year ago p99... played a lot of dark elves, camped Ratraz for aeons on different characters keeping faction up with the wine quest, hung out with trolls and ogres in the foreign quarter for the RP, etc). The almost-crazy yellows and purples and pinks and stuff always made sense there, and I don't remember thinking "these light sources seem wonky" like I did going around on the beta in other locations.

[Deathrydar]

I think I put mine recently at 20% . wont go higher than that. and still pretty dark. But I like it

i have been bouncing between 10 and 15%. Seems to work that way.

[Albane]

I do not like it. As anything but a DE, nighttime requires me to bump up my gamma to see anything. I haven't noticed a difference between Infravision and no Infravision.

[Deathrydar]

I do not like it. As anything but a DE, nighttime requires me to bump up my gamma to see anything. I haven't noticed a difference between Infravision and no Infravision.

I have been specifically testing this by running around a human necro with Deadeye. There seems to be a clear difference between having infravision and not having it, so unfortunately I do not see an issue. Specifics would be needed and they would need to be put in the thread dedicated to this feature. Plus, the devs that worked on the lighting/darkness are watching that thread.

[Byrjun]

I haven't noticed a difference between Infravision and no Infravision.

I'm glad that I'm not the only crazy one.

It's tripping me out a bit because I normally played human races as a kid. I loved the Qeynos area and spent most of my time there either as a Human, Erudite, or Barbarian. I was quite familiar with night blindness and it's one of the things I loved about the game.

I vividly remember deciding to roll a Dwarf one day and being amazed at how well I could see, even in the dark. The difference was big and I noticed it immediately.

On green however, I don't really notice that difference. The system is really cool, but doesn't quite seem to match the way I remember it.

[whitebandit]

Byrjun, Good to see ya sir.

If you really wanna see the difference between infravision and blindness, i suggest checking out the tunnel in SFG to QH -- As a half elf i was barely able to make some things out, as a human it seems worse to me.. Maybe it needs slight tweaking but i would say i didnt feel as blind as a half elf.

[oldhead]

I tested dorf, human, and gnome.

Human was very blind at 9pm.

Dorf could see fine

Gnome could see well.


Felt about right.

[NegaStoat]

I didn't like it but I will admit it feels sort of close to what I experienced on old Fennin Ro when launch first happened and I rolled a Human druid in Qeynos. It was bad enough then for me to re roll as a Wood Elf so I could see at night, and it's bad enough now to make me want to do the same thing.

[BlankDiploma]

Infravision exists in sort of an unfortunate purgatory where it's very difficult to satisfy everybody.

I run with 21% gamma and I can see perfectly fine with infravision at night. It's not supposed to be GREAT vision, it's supposed to be navigable without aide. You are still supposed to want a decent light source with infravision but it's not a requirement to be able to see a tree 5 feet in front of you.

Innothule and Feerrott are very dark, foggy zones, which does cancel out the benefit somewhat.

There's also a sort of confirmation bias going on here - if you really want to see the benefit Infravision provides, start a half-elf and human in Qeynos and switch between them, looking out of the gate at nighttime. The difference is pretty big.

Unfortunately, with the differences in monitor brightness, system gamma, ambient lighting in your room, glare on the screen, etc. etc. etc.... it's impossible for us to provide something that will work for everybody.

Most people seem happy with infravision and ultravision, so I don't foresee any major changes. I might tweak it a bit more but I wouldn't count on it.

[Deathrydar]

Infravision exists in sort of an unfortunate purgatory where it's very different to satisfy everybody.

I run with 21% gamma and I can see perfectly fine with infravision at night. It's not supposed to be GREAT vision, it's supposed to be navigable without aide. You are still supposed to want a decent light source with infravision but it's not a requirement to be able to see a tree 5 feet in front of you.

Innothule and Feerrott are very dark, foggy zones, which does cancel out the benefit somewhat.

There's also a sort of confirmation bias going on here - if you really want to see the benefit Infravision provides, start a half-elf and human in Qeynos and switch between them, looking out of the gate at nighttime. The difference is pretty big.

Unfortunately, with the differences in monitor brightness, system gamma, ambient lighting in your room, glare on the screen, etc. etc. etc.... it's impossible for us to provide something that will work for everybody.

Most people seem happy with infravision and ultravision, so I don't foresee any major changes. I might tweak it a bit more but I wouldn't count on it.

As I stated before, this is why I have been running around for a week now with a human and only got him to level 8 so i can have Deadeye. I check out the zone as a blind human and then cast Deadeye and see if there is a difference. There were some places where there wasn't a difference but those seem to be fixed so, I think things look great!

[BlankDiploma]

As I stated before, this is why I have been running around for a week now with a human and only got him to level 8 so i can have Deadeye. I check out the zone as a blind human and then cast Deadeye and see if there is a difference. There were some places where there wasn't a difference but those seem to be fixed so, I think things look great!

There WAS a bug a few days ago with infra/ultravision not applying, but it's fixed now. If you find any more, please report them with a /loc and a screenshot.

[Tyronius of Midnight]

Left my stream running overnight if you’d like to see day/night cycles as a DE and then TRL

I recorded something similar for Telin but here is a comparison day/night cycle in Freport West in the EQ Trilogy client.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496456098

[Deathrydar]

There WAS a bug a few days ago with infra/ultravision not applying, but it's fixed now. If you find any more, please report them with a /loc and a screenshot.
Sure will. But like I said, I went to all of the places I have been testing last night and things look really good. Thanks again for your hard work!

[Nirgon]

Infravision shouldn't be "red ultravision".

In fact human and infra should be much closer to each other than, by comparison, to infra and ultra.

I'll fire up a troll and snoop around.

[BlankDiploma]

Sure will. But like I said, I went to all of the places I have been testing last night and things look really good. Thanks again for your hard work!

np! That has been my experience as well.

The boat shader fix was the last one I made, the only other pending changes are the dynamic light peformance/brightness fixes (including for starting candles) which are waiting to be integrated into the dll.

[Deathrydar]

Infravision shouldn't be "red ultravision".

In fact human and infra should be much closer to each other than, by comparison, to infra and ultra.

I'll fire up a troll and snoop around.

If you don't mind, check into the reports of Feerott being too dark. It's one of the only zones I did not check. I checked Innothule with a human without infravision, a human with infravision casted on them and a Troll last night and it seemed fine.

[BlankDiploma]

Infravision shouldn't be "red ultravision".

In fact human and infra should be much closer to each other than, by comparison, to infra and ultra.

I'll fire up a troll and snoop around.

This is very concise and correct. Listen to this smart man.

[kebas239]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but wanted to add my 2 CP. I haven't played in 6 months and came on for the first time today. I immediately noticed the lighting and didn't like it at all...

But I played for a bit and wandering through the zones, etc. began back memories of how the game used to look when I first started playing back in 1999. I like it now. Thanks for this change devs =)

[roks1]

I log on then /camp server then log back in to stop my own lightsource from working, in hopes of lowering the FUCKING LAG the new lights add =)))

It's very dark but oh well!

[roks1]

I log on then /camp server then log back in to stop my own lightsource from working, in hopes of lowering the FUCKING LAG the new lights add =)))

It's very dark but oh well!

[Lulz Sect]

I do not like it. As anything but a DE, nighttime requires me to bump up my gamma to see anything. I haven't noticed a difference between Infravision and no Infravision.

accurate