Strafe run

[Razdeline]

Just curious if any thought has gone into disabling strafe run?

After a quick search there’s been no discussion on it. Strafe run is something I wish I didn’t know and learned by playing on p99. (For those who don’t know, it allows you to move in such a way that prohibits mobs from hitting you while you’re being chased)

I feel it’s too powerful of a movement exploit. Obviously removing it wouldn’t be popular with pullers and kiters. What do people think?

[Lulz Sect]

move to resolved

[Gustoo]

It's classic I learned this at level 2 on a all starting points to wisdom rallos zek woodelf warrior in 1999

[Baler]

Nein

It's been in since launch. It's due to how movement is calculated. two directions at once causes faster movement.

[Danger]

shits classic.

move to resolved.

[cd288]

Just curious if any thought has gone into disabling strafe run?

After a quick search there’s been no discussion on it. Strafe run is something I wish I didn’t know and learned by playing on p99. (For those who don’t know, it allows you to move in such a way that prohibits mobs from hitting you while you’re being chased)

I feel it’s too powerful of a movement exploit. Obviously removing it wouldn’t be popular with pullers and kiters. What do people think?

Classic. It also doesn't 100% prevent a mob from hitting you, as I've been hit by mobs while strafe running before. It just seems to significantly reduce the chance. If you wish you didn't know about it, nothing is stopping you from not utilizing the classic mechanic and dying on your run from a mob. Enjoy!

[Razdeline]

Classic. It also doesn't 100% prevent a mob from hitting you, as I've been hit by mobs while strafe running before. It just seems to significantly reduce the chance. If you wish you didn't know about it, nothing is stopping you from not utilizing the classic mechanic and dying on your run from a mob. Enjoy!

I was anticipating this response from someone. I don’t have to use it sure, but the damage is already done by everyone else with this knowledge that currently use it. In a way I feel it disrupts the integrity of the game world.

Other than that, other things that were ‘classic’ here have been nerfed over the years due to being too powerful so I feel that argument wouldn’t align with the spirit of the project.

When running though, I do outpace mobs quickly. It isn’t as simple as a mob ‘sometimes not hitting you’- strafe running over a distance will create a sizable gap between you and that mob.

[walfreyydo]

Classic. It also doesn't 100% prevent a mob from hitting you, as I've been hit by mobs while strafe running before. It just seems to significantly reduce the chance. If you wish you didn't know about it, nothing is stopping you from not utilizing the classic mechanic and dying on your run from a mob. Enjoy!

Those are mobs that are able to run faster than strafe running. Strafe running will outrun most mobs who have normal run speed, others such as cats, raptors or sowd mobs, will still be able to hit (catch) you.

[Razdeline]

Those are mobs that have been SoW'd and are able to run faster than strafe running

Like wolfs, shadow men, fast mobs for example.

[ChairmanMauzer]

This was always in the game.

No offense, but if you don't like strafe run, then don't strafe run. I'm not sure how it affects you one iota if others do it.

[elwing]

What seems bugged, is that if you are really encumbred, can't move normally (straff and foward keys do nothing) then get a movement buff (jboot) you will be able to crawl forward but straff will be much faster than it should..

[Razdeline]

What seems bugged, is that if you are really encumbred, can't move normally (straff and foward keys do nothing) then get a movement buff (jboot) you will be able to crawl forward but straff will be much faster than it should..

Yeah this is also a thing.

[Razdeline]

This was always in the game.

No offense, but if you don't like strafe run, then don't strafe run. I'm not sure how it affects you one iota if others do it.

It affects people negatively in certain scenarios. Picture a group pulling from the same area as another group. (Orc highway, for example)

Puller from group 1 uses strafe run, and bails to zone line if they pull too crazy, or just uses strafe run to run in circles if things go bad. Puller from group 1 affectively has the benefit of no consequences whatsoever if they make a mistake.

Puller from group 2 doesn’t do this(as they are ignorant of strafe run or are a diehard anti-exploit enthusiast), dies on the pull before even making it back to group.

Group 1 gets free reign & more mobs than group 2.

There’s less incentive for use of ranged weapons, close quartered areas become trivial to pull, etc.

[quido]

Depends on the mob. Mobs run at different speeds. Some mobs you can shake, others you can't. Try strafe-run kiting Lockjaw, for example.

[quido]

Strafe-running requires your attention and is one of those skill/effort elements I truly enjoy.

[Razdeline]

Strafe-running requires your attention and is one of those skill/effort elements I truly enjoy.

This is true. If you’re ever in a situation where you have to use it you can’t really do any other actions.

[Gustoo]

Yeah. Real pros can seamlessly strafe run and also jump.

Definitely 100% classic and never going to change. Weird discussion. Maybe this guy wants to sell sow pots to people that don't want to deal with 100% chance of death if mob looks out of hand.

Also damn those raptors are fast and skerry.

[ChairmanMauzer]

It affects people negatively in certain scenarios. Picture a group pulling from the same area as another group. (Orc highway, for example)

Puller from group 1 uses strafe run, and bails to zone line if they pull too crazy, or just uses strafe run to run in circles if things go bad. Puller from group 1 affectively has the benefit of no consequences whatsoever if they make a mistake.

Puller from group 2 doesn’t do this(as they are ignorant of strafe run or are a diehard anti-exploit enthusiast), dies on the pull before even making it back to group.

Group 1 gets free reign & more mobs than group 2.

There’s less incentive for use of ranged weapons, close quartered areas become trivial to pull, etc.

Again, I don't see what the problem is. If its a benefit, use it. If you don't think its advantageous to do so, then don't.

What you shouldn't be trying to do is to handicap others down to the level of your personal preferences. That's not cool. As strafe running IS classic, and if it is advantageous as you claim, then its sounds like the solution is for puller #2 to get with the program. This person's lack of understanding of the mechanics of the game isn't group #1's problem or anyone else's.

Also your scenario 1 is a tad skewed. I've definitely died to mobs while strafe running. It's hardly foolproof.

As for ranged weapons, there's pretty much never been an incentive to use those on here as they simply aren't effective or practical beyond pulling. Given we will never have AA's here, they never will be. So again, this has nothing to do with strafe running.

[Razdeline]

Again, I don't see what the problem is. If its a benefit, use it. If you don't think its advantageous to do so, then don't.

What you shouldn't be trying to do is to handicap others down to the level of your personal preferences. That's not cool. As strafe running IS classic, and if it is advantageous as you claim, then its sounds like the solution is for puller #2 to get with the program. This person's lack of understanding of the mechanics of the game isn't group #1's problem or anyone else's.

Also your scenario 1 is a tad skewed. I've definitely died to mobs while strafe running. It's hardly foolproof.

As for ranged weapons, there's pretty much never been an incentive to use those on here as they simply aren't effective or practical beyond pulling. Given we will never have AA's here, they never will be. So again, this has nothing to do with strafe running.

I still think there would be more incentive to use ranged weapons if there was more motivation to keep distance from mobs. As it stands, you can create a gap with the majority of mobs in game using this mechanic pretty easily during pulls. Especially useful indoors where you can’t get sow.

In the scope of an immersive online world, how does this mechanic make sense? Was it initially intended?

I don’t think my scenario is flawed one bit. Yeah you can screw up strafe running and die, but if you compare group 1 & 2 over a course of time the people strafe running will inherently have a less risky experience. It’s also, in my opinion, incredibly easy to do.

I didn’t think being denied the use of an exploit was considered a handicap either. I don’t really feel like this is solely a personal preference. If anything it’s fun to imagine what the game would be like without it and it’s cool to see different people’s take.

[Razdeline]

Yeah. Real pros can seamlessly strafe run and also jump.

Definitely 100% classic and never going to change. Weird discussion. Maybe this guy wants to sell sow pots to people that don't want to deal with 100% chance of death if mob looks out of hand.

Also damn those raptors are fast and skerry.

I usually only play melee classes and tanks so i’d be on the short end of the stick if anything were to change. I care mostly about the immersiveness/verisimilitude of things and classic eq is one of the last mmos that does it well.

[Old_PVP]

It's classic I learned this at level 2 on a all starting points to wisdom rallos zek woodelf warrior in 1999

ROFL. Wisest warrior in the land.

[Bardolap]

Yeah this is also a thing.

What I remeber most about this is skilling up blacksmithing in North Kaladim and strafing from the mines to the forge after picking up so much ore that I couldn't move forwards.

[quido]

Sounds like an interesting feature for a custom box.

[cd288]

So let's move this to resolved now that we've established no one agrees with OP.

[Lulz Sect]

Strafe-running requires your attention and is one of those skill/effort elements I truly enjoy.

https://m.twitch.tv/clip/AmorphousGentleOcelotBatChest

[AgentEpilot]

Just curious if any thought has gone into disabling strafe run?


Quick someone order Agent 47 to handle this.

[Razdeline]

What I remeber most about this is skilling up blacksmithing in North Kaladim and strafing from the mines to the forge after picking up so much ore that I couldn't move forwards.

I think you can still do this if you have a movement speed buff. I made the mistake of buying too much ore on Green thinking I could do the ol’trade exploit to reduce my weight so I could run to the forge, but that no longer works ��

Had to go oldschool UO and drop the bag of ore>move>pickup>drop>move my way there

[Gorster]

https://m.twitch.tv/clip/AmorphousGentleOcelotBatChest

This.

[BlackBellamy]

Yeah. Real pros can seamlessly strafe run and also jump.


And type out warnings and/or threats.

[Wonkie]

And type out warnings and/or threats.

BOO! :)

[Verityn]

I think saying that it's classic isn't enough justification to keep it anymore than keeping a dupe bug in the game, but if everyone wants to keep it then that's a good enough reason. I'm getting used to watching people run around all wonky.

[Lulz Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/fx2B57q.gif

[saftbudet]

Just curious if any thought has gone into disabling strafe run?

After a quick search there’s been no discussion on it. Strafe run is something I wish I didn’t know and learned by playing on p99. (For those who don’t know, it allows you to move in such a way that prohibits mobs from hitting you while you’re being chased)

I feel it’s too powerful of a movement exploit. Obviously removing it wouldn’t be popular with pullers and kiters. What do people think?

Ever tried to Strafe run a Griffon or Puma ?
Not all NPC has same run speed.

[aaezil]

Imagine if the only things allowed were “as intended” it would literally be half a game (or 1000% the game if everyone roleplayed)

[Pootle]

In the scope of an immersive online world, how does this mechanic make sense? Was it initially intended?


There is so much in EQ that wasn't intended by the original developers. They were essentially creating something new and had no idea how players would use the world they were creating.
I remember reading an interview where one of the developers talked about how they never even thought about quad kiting, it was something that players created using the tools at their disposal.
So trying to ask if something 'was intended' is a little irrelevant.


I didn’t think being denied the use of an exploit was considered a handicap either.
Now you are calling it an 'exploit'... let me ask this was it ever deemed an exploit in live EQ?

[BlackBellamy]

Listen up smelly Norrath scum and sexy Dark Elf ladies!

https://i.imgur.com/ktBVPQx.gif


At great personal expense and at the risk of damaging relations with my irreplaceable personal trainer, I have established an exclusive running track from Oasis/NRo zone (-1870x) to the first palm tree by the idiot fisherhumans. (1945x):



https://imgur.com/pKYfiIC.jpg

I ran from the palm tree to the zoneline, then strafed back. I then strafed to the zone line, and ran back, each time using the same route

Results are 2:08 and 2:10 running, and 1:53 and 1:55 strafing.

This represent a rough 13% decrease in travel time. In theoretical terms a strafing JBooter is 148% run speed vs SoW runner at 155%.

In practical terms if you're making the popular Neriak - Guk run, you will save 1 minute by strafing, assuming no other speed enhancements.

[Nirgon]

It's classic

[Gustoo]

Listen up smelly Norrath scum and sexy Dark Elf ladies!

https://i.imgur.com/ktBVPQx.gif


At great personal expense and at the risk of damaging relations with my irreplaceable personal trainer, I have established an exclusive running track from Oasis/NRo zone (-1870x) to the first palm tree by the idiot fisherhumans. (1945x):



https://imgur.com/pKYfiIC.jpg

I ran from the palm tree to the zoneline, then strafed back. I then strafed to the zone line, and ran back, each time using the same route

Results are 2:08 and 2:10 running, and 1:53 and 1:55 strafing.

This represent a rough 13% decrease in travel time. In theoretical terms a strafing JBooter is 148% run speed vs SoW runner at 155%.

In practical terms if you're making the popular Neriak - Guk run, you will save 1 minute by strafing, assuming no other speed enhancements.

Nice data. Imagine what you could accomplish with an intense physical regiment.

Also please try to compare jump + strafe into your running track record for further data. Get some invigor insta clickies too.

Maybe run past players like runners run past water stations and the players cast invigor to give you more ability to jump.

[Lamil]

My favorite memory is trying to strafe run panicked and accidentally disbanding from my group

[Gustoo]

lol yeah

[BlackBellamy]

For my next test I will compare Rogue Sneak vs Rogue Strafesneak. You know, maybe I won't. Don't need to fuel the fire that much.

[Gustoo]

Yeah man just do the jump test and call it a day thats a legitimate pro strat that has a percent difference in speed if executed professionally.

[Razdeline]

Listen up smelly Norrath scum and sexy Dark Elf ladies!

https://i.imgur.com/ktBVPQx.gif


At great personal expense and at the risk of damaging relations with my irreplaceable personal trainer, I have established an exclusive running track from Oasis/NRo zone (-1870x) to the first palm tree by the idiot fisherhumans. (1945x):



https://imgur.com/pKYfiIC.jpg

I ran from the palm tree to the zoneline, then strafed back. I then strafed to the zone line, and ran back, each time using the same route

Results are 2:08 and 2:10 running, and 1:53 and 1:55 strafing.

This represent a rough 13% decrease in travel time. In theoretical terms a strafing JBooter is 148% run speed vs SoW runner at 155%.

In practical terms if you're making the popular Neriak - Guk run, you will save 1 minute by strafing, assuming no other speed enhancements.

Amazing.

[GnomeCaptain]

This is an exploit.

Surely there is precedent on Blue for doing away with exploits, even those not caused by an obvious programming error, rather than accepting them?

Do specious, greedy, lazy arguments that declare they are "features" or "mechanics the player should know about" hold sway here?

Boxing is, to the people that wish to exploit it, "classic," but is it allowed here?

[tg822]

This is classic. Remember learning this in 1999 as well. There is zero chance they are changing this, and also it’s not an exploit. Try strafe running irl... you’d be surprised by the results.

[Lulz Sect]

it feels like jumping adds to the strafe run speed in my experience
pls test

[gkmarino]

This is classic. Remember learning this in 1999 as well. There is zero chance they are changing this, and also it’s not an exploit. Try strafe running irl... you’d be surprised by the results.Woke up in the hospital. I had some oversteer after some IRL lag and ended up head to head with a three thousand stone metal rhino.

[cd288]

This is an exploit.

No it’s not

[BlackBellamy]

Try strafe running irl... you’d be surprised by the results.

https://imgur.com/ijhv00g.jpg

[BlackBellamy]

Attention all servants and/or victims of our one true Dark God!

https://imgur.com/v6bSEPr.gif

His glorious vessel brings news for all those interested in furthering their cardiovascular fitness, as a jumping regimen has now been specified.

First in order to re-establish what my trainer called a baseline, I warmed up by running back and forth in the normal sexy manner and being timed at 2:08 and 2:10, which were identical to the previous times. Enraged at this lack of progress, I fed my trainer to the Nine Spiders.

Lacking proper professional guidance, I ran the same two laps again this time jumping as much as my endurance would allow, which was 23 jumps each way. My times were 2:04 each way, an improvement of 4-6 seconds.

Lastly, I called the Nine Spiders out, their digestion requiring proper exercise, and we left on a strafe with extra calisthenics as shown above.

We strafed in a graceful manner across the beach twice to the setting sun, each time again managing 23 jumps. When the timer told me the times were 1:53 and 1:56 his throat was cut and the Spiders drank his blood. He offered his opinion that jumping actually propelled me in a direction which was at an angle to my actual movement, thereby negating any advantage that a runner would have if they jumped in the direction of their travel. He was right of course, but I don't take comments from food.

Jumping while running forward will increase your travel speed by 4% if you run about 4000 units, however the longer you run the less the benefit because you're front-loading your endurance.

Jumping while strafing will not increase your travel speed. It will however alter your line of travel over time because you do actually move in a different direction to your intended travel (which you don't have to worry about because after this you will never strafe-jump again).

[Flicka]

Every time I read something BlackBellamy posts - I am amused by my ignorance. Now I'm eager to try strafe jumping in front of spiders and will embark on this endeavor posthaste.

[BlackBellamy]

I just wanted to add two disclaimers:

It’s possible that if you have unlimited endurance regen and you’re just constantly jumping like a madman you might be able to realize a minute gain, but that probably would not be worth the effort involved anyway.

I only tested travel speed and not evasion capability. It’s also possible that the mob pursuit algorithm factors the player jump movement in such a way as to place the mob in a sub-optimal position when it has to turn back to reestablish the pursuit vector (see B. Sanders, On Juking).