How will raiding work on Green/Teal?

[Bromgard]

Are there any plans to improve the end-game raiding scene on these expansions? Such as instances raiding or lockouts? Or do people actually like the FTE Special Olympics race because "it's classic"? That is the one thing I never could understand about Blue, nor can I find any real why the player base tolerates it. Doesn't seem like anyone actually enjoys the raid scene.

Sorry if this is a repeat of a discussion that's already been had.

[bwe]

if you have to ask you're not going to get to raid on this server

[Jeni]

One guild will rise to the top play 16 hours a day and lock all content down until the whining on the forums gets too loud then a welfare system will be put in place where your 50-80 man guild will rotate with other equal sized guilds for your 1 raid mob a month.

[Danth]

nor can I find any real why the player base tolerates it. Doesn't seem like anyone actually enjoys the raid scene.

They tolerate it because they have no choice in the matter if they want to play here at all. The players don't make the rules.

Danth

[Larken]

There is only 1 solution. But as always it falls to deaf ears.....

PvP enable raid zones. Problem solved. No more lawyer questing.

[AgentEpilot]

EQ raiding is shit anyways, all about the journey to near raid then alt game+.

[Bromgard]

if you have to ask you're not going to get to raid on this server

I'm fully aware of that, hence the question. I've reached level 60 on both Blue and Red and quit shortly thereafter due to no ability to participate in end game.

I've rather enjoyed the instance mechanic on the new official DBG TLPs, although it does water down things quite a bit and ultimately shortens the lifespan of the servers. However, I imagine there is a happy medium somewhere.

[aaezil]

The special olympics race/ fte msg system that happens on blue is highly un-classic. The majority of servers had a rotation list for raid mobs in the classic through velious era.

Hope they make green/teal closer to classic in this way as well!

[galach]

Current rules on blue as of now. Open to discussion and changes in the future. I'm just worried if there are enough slots for plane of sky.

[Bromgard]

Current rules on blue as of now. Open to discussion and changes in the future. I'm just worried if there are enough slots for plane of sky.

Are there any ideas which have been said which you guys are outright NOT open to so we can limit the discussion? I assume you've considered instanced raiding?

[Videri]

Guild-based rotations are awesome on TAKP. No one breaks the rules. Guilds frequently tell each other "Hey, we can't do Whatsisface this week. You wanna take it?" However, when I was playing there, concurrent pop was about 200 characters, played by fewer than 100 players. Here, it may be 10 times as many players. If we end up with hundreds of max-level characters distributed among what looks like over a dozen large guilds, it might be a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

I reeeeeeeeally hope we get together and agree on some rotations here on Green. Guaranteed loot, ability to actually schedule raids...it could be really good.

<Castle> Green is in favor of raid rotations. We look forward to discussing it further with other guilds when the time comes. And it seems that time is approaching rapidly.

[Unslaved]

I just cant believe how the human race acts sometimes.... including fighting over pixels in a game that in the end doesent even really matter when you take your last breath. What will matter is how you treated others as we all come and goto the same place in the end. When it comes to raiding on P99 all ive ever heard was bad things about it. Why not give everyone a fair chance to see end game content. Not all things in EQ Classic were for the better it was the first 3d mmo. Im sure if the developers could go back now after looking at things there would have been instancing for end game content. If everyone got along and played fairly things like this wouldnt matter so much but we have alot of changing to do in this world....

[Danger]

There is only 1 solution. But as always it falls to deaf ears.....

PvP enable raid zones. Problem solved. No more lawyer questing.

big brained solution. simple as it is elegant.

[Videri]

There is only 1 solution. But as always it falls to deaf ears.....

PvP enable raid zones. Problem solved. No more lawyer questing.

Wouldn't this result in one huge guild getting loot and several small guilds not?

[Ligma]

The special olympics race/ fte msg system that happens on blue is highly un-classic. The majority of servers had a rotation list for raid mobs in the classic through velious era.

That may be true for older content but for new content usually there was all sorts of racing, training, killstealing and cockblocking. NToV was a race to aary then you get the clear.

Many guilds were so effective at cock blocking that they kept VT to themselves for the entirety of luclin. And then continued attempts to cockblock on RZtWL.

[Larken]

Wouldn't this result in one huge guild getting loot and several small guilds not?


Good question. However, there will be alliances formed, old ones crumbling and new one taking shape all the time. So there will never be one huge guild dominating anything, unless they share with others because they will be attacked.

Paradoxically, pvp fosters a different kind, dare I say, deeper form of diplomacy and a tighter community because you have to be on your very best behavior.
Heck, you could even create a rotational list among the guilds where no one comes and disrupts the raid with PVP's. There will be the formation of PK guilds who tries to sabotage raids and their counter parts, Anti PK guild that are there to protect the raiding guild, giving content to do for players that are not raiding at that specific day. It would be such a blast honestly, not to mention for once giving meaning to actually using ones gear one has spend thousands of hours accumulating.

Blue end game raiding is toxic, way beyond what a pvp flagged raid zone system would ever be.
Why not at least try the above solution to some raid zones or just one raid zone?

[Videri]

Good question. However, there will be alliances formed, old ones crumbling and new one taking shape all the time. So there will never be one huge guild dominating anything, unless they share with others because they will be attacked.

Paradoxically, pvp fosters a different kind, dare I say, deeper form of diplomacy and a tighter community because you have to be on your very best behavior.
Heck, you could even create a rotational list among the guilds where no one comes and disrupts the raid with PVP's. There will be the formation of PK guilds who tries to sabotage raids and their counter parts, Anti PK guild that are there to protect the raiding guild, giving content to do for players that are not raiding at that specific day. It would be such a blast honestly, not to mention for once giving meaning to actually using ones gear one has spend thousands of hours accumulating.

Blue end game raiding is toxic, way beyond what a pvp flagged raid zone system would ever be.
Why not at least try the above solution to some raid zones or just one raid zone?

I would love to experience this kind of thing. It sounds like the stories from Rallos Zek.

But Red wasn't like this...at least not when I was there in I think 2015-2016. About half the players were innocent naked noobs and the other half were on their WORST behavior at all times.

One time, a bunch of players calling themselves <Pandemonium> rolled on Red. The entire rest of the server shit on them until they left.

After that (or was it before?) a bunch of players calling themselves <TMO> rolled on Red. The entire rest of the server shit on them until they left. (sorry guys btw)

So, Red is not the same. I wonder what the difference was. The fact that the population of Red was minuscule compared to RZ/TZ/VZ/SZ? The fact that most people on classic-to-Velious-era live pvp servers knew nothing about pvp, whereas half of everyone here on Red was a seasoned pro? Anyway. Let me not derail this thread.

[Larken]

I would love to experience this kind of thing. It sounds like the stories from Rallos Zek.

But Red wasn't like this...at least not when I was there in I think 2015-2016. About half the players were innocent naked noobs and the other half were on their WORST behavior at all times.

One time, a bunch of players calling themselves <Pandemonium> rolled on Red. The entire rest of the server shit on them until they left.

After that (or was it before?) a bunch of players calling themselves <TMO> rolled on Red. The entire rest of the server shit on them until they left. (sorry guys btw)

So, Red is not the same. I wonder what the difference was. The fact that the population of Red was minuscule compared to RZ/TZ/VZ/SZ? The fact that most people on classic-to-Velious-era live pvp servers knew nothing about pvp, whereas half of everyone here on Red was a seasoned pro? Anyway. Let me not derail this thread.

Right, that's why I suggested only flagging the raid zones for PVP (not newbie zones), as a tool for the players to settle their own disputes. So even though much of what you said is true regarding red server, it wouldn't apply here.

[pgerman]

I played live PVP servers when they opened on TZ and SZ, and played along time here on Red99. It's pretty much the same player mechanics.


Group A , wants loot
Group B, wants to grief people off server or IRL death/whatever comes first


Over time the zerg of group A always wins every PVP server, and the best time to play any eq pvp is the first year.

I will also say, Tala was clearly not in group A ;) He was the friendly bard in the background singing devilish praises while we defiled corpses en mass.

All the while with the calm and smile of mr rogers. Not an evil bone in his body they said.

I can still hear his depraved songs today . Did we slay countless naked noobs, and grief even more tainted blue blood from red99s player base? Yes...

... but you will always see Tala's smile in the background, enjoying every moment.

[Videri]

Right, that's why I suggested only flagging the raid zones for PVP (not newbie zones), as a tool for the players to settle their own disputes. So even though much of what you said is true regarding red server, it wouldn't apply here.

Hmmmm! Very interesting. Perhaps we will live inside such an experiment someday.

I will also say, Tala was clearly not in group A ;) He was the friendly bard in the background singing devilish praises while we defiled corpses en mass.

All the while with the calm and smile of mr rogers. Not an evil bone in his body they said.

I can still hear his depraved songs today . Did we slay countless naked noobs, and grief even more tainted blue blood from red99s player base? Yes...

... but you will always see Tala's smile in the background, enjoying every moment.

/cackle
*strums a tune with skeletal fingers*

[Larken]

I played live PVP servers when they opened on TZ and SZ, and played along time here on Red99. It's pretty much the same player mechanics.


Group A , wants loot
Group B, wants to grief people off server or IRL death/whatever comes first


Over time the zerg of group A always wins every PVP server, and the best time to play any eq pvp is the first year.



Yes, that is sadly the state of affairs on Red99, but mainly because of 2 factors, low population and open world pvp. However, I'm not trying to suggest making blue to a red server.

This suggestion is only for solving the blue raid scene problem by simply flagging raid zones for PVP. The above scenario you described from the red server wouldn't happen thus. The vast majority of the game world would continue to be normal (blue).

The point I'm trying to make is that on a blue server there is already grief, hatred, passive aggressiveness and conflict among players. My bold suggestion: let the players solve it, it would be so much more healthier this way.

I know this won't happen in the end, but the way I see the situation, it's crystal clear to me that this is the best solution, taking all the parameters into consideration.

[pgerman]

Heh, it would just give the original red99 player base something to destroy. If you want to open up the raid scene on a blue server to pvp? Be my guest, 25 red players would ensure they never get another raid mob again if no GM intervention.

You've got to realize red was made to keep us off of blue. So we would corpse camp each other into oblivion , and it worked .

Unleash us on a blue server as a united front. LOL............ You don't understand what your asking for. Just trying to help you out.



Gather the obese, gather the unemployed . Victory will be yours.

[Videri]

See, these ^ are the people I warned you about! XD

But, Larken, you might be right. I hope someone unleashes your hybrid server.

[Larken]

Heh, it would just give the original red99 player base something to destroy. If you want to open up the raid scene on a blue server to pvp? Be my guest, 25 red players would ensure they never get another raid mob again if no GM intervention.


I understand your concern, and I'm no big fan of said 25 people. But really give this concept a fair review before tossing it into the trash.

So, I already addressed the above issue in previous post but will in more detail explain why this could never happen practically. Why? Because of numbers. Say you have that 25 toxic scumbags, whose mission it is to grief and make sure no one gets access to ToV or the planes or whatever raid zone. Okay, fair game, I accept the challenge.

Now remember, this is a blue server, so the population will be, say, at least 1,000 players. So you see, there is no way those 25 people are going to stop at least 10 big guilds with 50 man each.

The said 25 people is by definition the PK guild, and frankly, it would be kind of fun to have them around because it would form a deeper sense of community. They would be swiftly put in place by 100+ players from other ally guilds to the one that's raiding.

Again, everything would be blue server, in 98% of all zones. I'm just talking raid zones here.

Imagine the time saved by players and staff were raid zone pvp flagging be enabled.

Want to raid? Negotiate with other guilds.
Negotiations stalled? Fight and prove who's strongest.
One guild is bigger and stronger than other guilds? Make allies with other and take them down and put them in their place and force them back to the negotiating table.
Simple and frankly, fun and exciting.

[Larken]

See, these ^ are the people I warned you about! XD

But, Larken, you might be right. I hope someone unleashes your hybrid server.

Hehe yes. Well I just think people have been so conditioned by Red99 failure that even the mention of players solving their own disputes in the very end game is somehow not even up for debate or consideration. And I think everyone is missing out to be honest because of this.

And we wouldn't even need a hybrid server for this. This would work on blue. The staff could just say. "You players have messed things up, you cannot agree to anything or any raid rules. We don't want to police you anymore. We will be testing PVP raid enable zones in Plane of Fear and Plane of Hate to test how it goes." or something to that effect.

Anyhow, we both know this will never happen but it's a fun mental exercise :)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Heh, it would just give the original red99 player base something to destroy. If you want to open up the raid scene on a blue server to pvp? Be my guest, 25 red players would ensure they never get another raid mob again if no GM intervention.

You've got to realize red was made to keep us off of blue. So we would corpse camp each other into oblivion , and it worked .

Unleash us on a blue server as a united front. LOL............ You don't understand what your asking for. Just trying to help you out.



Gather the obese, gather the unemployed . Victory will be yours.
Yea. TMO lasted what, 2 months on Red? Lol.

[Meiva]

We all will line up single file, a GM will group with those first in line, GM will summon raid boss, GM will /instakill, first in line is only one who gets to loot as they were grouped with GM. #2 in line's turn now.

It's only fair.

[fadetree]

Guild-based rotations are awesome on TAKP. No one breaks the rules. Guilds frequently tell each other "Hey, we can't do Whatsisface this week. You wanna take it?" However, when I was playing there, concurrent pop was about 200 characters, played by fewer than 100 players. Here, it may be 10 times as many players. If we end up with hundreds of max-level characters distributed among what looks like over a dozen large guilds, it might be a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

I reeeeeeeeally hope we get together and agree on some rotations here on Green. Guaranteed loot, ability to actually schedule raids...it could be really good.

<Castle> Green is in favor of raid rotations. We look forward to discussing it further with other guilds when the time comes. And it seems that time is approaching rapidly.

+1 for TAKP on this. The raid culture there is very different.

[astuce999]

I think one major factor that isn't being considered yet, is the timeline appropriate unlocking of content on Green/Teal that wasn't available on blue.

It's not going to solve everything, but I would be curious to see how it plays out before any intervention or tweaks.

Although the population was much lower, the first couple of years of vanilla blue weren't that bad, and it wasn't until the population became very top heavy by being locked in vanilla content for many years that the toxicicity became widespread.

cheers,

Astuce

[Argh]

The biggest non-classic thing driving the state of the raid scene is variance. It's goal when implemented was to prevent 'poopsocking' which it has only made unimaginably worse.