Enchanter Soloing

[strawman]

Since Green launched, I've gotten an enchanter to level 25, my first character past the early teens (and that was in the original Kunark era).

I've tried to charm solo a number of times, but have found it frustrating. When it works, I'll kill two mobs and end up with about 40% mana. This seems alright, not great, and meditating back to full doesn't take that long.

Much more often, I'll end up around half health. Sometimes this is because of a random charm break. Mostly it's because, after casting invisibility to intentionally break the charm, the mob gets in a few hits before I can root, mez or kill it.

Regenerating at 3/tick with about 450 health, a pull that doesn't go perfectly often leaves me sitting for 5-10 minutes to regen. Troll illusion helps a little, but this play style is ultimately more dull than I was expecting - especially compared to my level 10 necromancer, for whom soloing is a breeze.

What strategies are enchanters using to mitigate this? Is a spyglass required for enchanter soloing? Is there anything I can do to regenerate myself faster?

[98bcobra]

A GCD will help this a lot. But there are not many in game atm.

[cd288]

Can you root your pet prior to breaking charm? Not sure if that’s possible or not

[Tist]

Same here. Not very efficient with length of charm and mana costs at the moment. Best use for it I found is using guards to charm steal.

[Widan]

It's 4hp per tick with troll illu. Unless you're taking a ton of damage you should be able to regen 3 bars of health before 5 bars of mana. Start every fight with Rune I at least, and increase to II and III when you feel comfortable spending the plat on reagents. You should only be getting hit by your pet(s) before you nuke them really, unless root breaks early on the other mob(s).

But yes the playstyle is about 2/3 sitting and medding and 1/3 reverse charming mobs (this will get better whenever clarity is in). It's nice because you can get a level about every hour of actual time spent killing. If you prefer to be tabbed into the game at all times this might not be the class for you.

[branamil]

charming is not worth it till clarity

[98bcobra]

Charm is also reliant on a couple things. The level of the mob, Your CHA, Mobs MR. So if you are charming mobs close to your level with out high cha it is not going last a long time most likely. At lower levels like stated without Clarity Charm is a mana hog and recurrent breaks will make you oom fast at lower levels. I would also make sure you are matching your charm for the level mobs you are charming. You do not have to highest version you have if the mob level is not over the max level for the spell. This saves some mana. Best thing to do is find a partner like a necro/clr/druid/mage and duo so you dont have to eat the exp the pet takes and just kill till pet is low then kill pet.

[Zill]

I’ve never leveled an enchanter past 30 for this exact reason, glad I’m not the only nub out here!

[Bazia]

idk if your getting hit by every break your not doing it right, you break it from a far distance as possible so you can intercept it with a low level mez or root while it runs toward you for the finishing nuke

if you cant get distance in a dungeon use color stun spells to prevent damage while you channel a mez or root

if you need runes as a crutch in the beginning then use them

enc is really easy mode but i do agree with your original statement that necro is even easier

[strawman]

Really interesting replies so far.

A GCD will help this a lot. But there are not many in game atm.
Is a spyglass adequate for GCD reset? It seems easy enough to get, if a little expensive.

Can you root your pet prior to breaking charm? Not sure if that’s possible or not
No casting any offensive spells on a charmed mob gives the same "targetname is protected" message as when you try to cast on a corpse

It's 4hp per tick with troll illu. Unless you're taking a ton of damage you should be able to regen 3 bars of health before 5 bars of mana. Start every fight with Rune I at least, and increase to II and III when you feel comfortable spending the plat on reagents. You should only be getting hit by your pet(s) before you nuke them really, unless root breaks early on the other mob(s).

But yes the playstyle is about 2/3 sitting and medding and 1/3 reverse charming mobs (this will get better whenever clarity is in). It's nice because you can get a level about every hour of actual time spent killing. If you prefer to be tabbed into the game at all times this might not be the class for you.

I don't think those numbers can be right. Meditate is supposed to give 1 mana per tick per 10 levels of meditate, so at 25 with meditate 130, I should be getting at least 13 mana/tick (which feels right - mana fills much faster than health).

It's very interesting to hear that the high level of downtime is expected. None of the guides really mentioned it before I rolled the class.

Charm is also reliant on a couple things. The level of the mob, Your CHA, Mobs MR. So if you are charming mobs close to your level with out high cha it is not going last a long time most likely. At lower levels like stated without Clarity Charm is a mana hog and recurrent breaks will make you oom fast at lower levels. I would also make sure you are matching your charm for the level mobs you are charming. You do not have to highest version you have if the mob level is not over the max level for the spell. This saves some mana. Best thing to do is find a partner like a necro/clr/druid/mage and duo so you dont have to eat the exp the pet takes and just kill till pet is low then kill pet.
I'm doing high greens and blues with 180 CHA

idk if your getting hit by every break your not doing it right, you break it from a far distance as possible so you can intercept it with a low level mez or root while it runs toward you for the finishing nuke

if you cant get distance in a dungeon use color stun spells to prevent damage while you channel a mez or root

if you need runes as a crutch in the beginning then use them

enc is really easy mode but i do agree with your original statement that necro is even easier
I've mostly been in dungeons... maybe color stun is what I'm missing here. I've been trying to conserve mana as much as possible, but it doesn't sound like that's the best approach.

[Widan]

No don't use stuns. You don't have the mana to efficiently add them in at low levels. Charm breaks should simply be invis into an immediate nuke to conserve the most mana. That's why you start the fight with rune, because you will eat 1-2 rounds when you break charm.

On early charm breaks immediately recast charm as it is fast casting and the most mana efficient method of recharming. When you're higher level and have longer casting charms spells this will change though.

I don't think those numbers can be right. Meditate is supposed to give 1 mana per tick per 10 levels of meditate, so at 25 with meditate 130, I should be getting at least 13 mana/tick (which feels right - mana fills much faster than health).

You regen 40hp a minute with troll illusion, so its a little more than 2 minutes per bar at your current health. Medding 5 bars of mana should take about 6+ minutes at your level. But my point being is you should ultimately be constrained by mana at low levels, not health. If you find yourself waiting on health too much something is wrong with your play style somewhere.

[Videri]

Is a spyglass adequate for GCD reset? It seems easy enough to get, if a little expensive.

A spyglass will definitely be adequate. You can even click off the zoom buff if you find that helpful or worth it. Of course, we'll all want to upgrade to an instant-click without zoom. Here's the wiki page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Clickies).

My suggestion: consider duoing. Many other classes can help control the situation and help reduce your mana usage. Plus, it frees both of you from the pet-eats-some-exp problem. Things other classes can do for you: snare both mobs, malo before charm, tank a little bit sometimes, send a summoned pet, heal you, chain pull, and more. Generally speaking, when compared to soloing, duoing should increase the options for what you can accomplish, while also decreasing the risk. And it's not hard to find one other person of an appropriate class!

When you try some of this stuff, like using the Color stun(s), getting a spyglass, trying duos...let us know how it goes!

[Tecmos Deception]

Since Green launched, I've gotten an enchanter to level 25, my first character past the early teens (and that was in the original Kunark era).

I've tried to charm solo a number of times, but have found it frustrating. When it works, I'll kill two mobs and end up with about 40% mana. This seems alright, not great, and meditating back to full doesn't take that long.

Much more often, I'll end up around half health. Sometimes this is because of a random charm break. Mostly it's because, after casting invisibility to intentionally break the charm, the mob gets in a few hits before I can root, mez or kill it.

Regenerating at 3/tick with about 450 health, a pull that doesn't go perfectly often leaves me sitting for 5-10 minutes to regen. Troll illusion helps a little, but this play style is ultimately more dull than I was expecting - especially compared to my level 10 necromancer, for whom soloing is a breeze.

What strategies are enchanters using to mitigate this? Is a spyglass required for enchanter soloing? Is there anything I can do to regenerate myself faster?

Like some others have said, use runes (not the short-duration ones until like 50+ because they don't last long) to shield your hp from most damage. However, I always felt the MOST important part of survival for a chanter while exping was DISTANCE. Keep your distance from the shit you're fighting. When you are at max casting distance from your charm and enemy (or enemies), and you generally keep your enemy rooted when mana permits (it should permit by your level but it doesn't in the teens usually), you have plenty of time to recharm your pet before it gets to you on a charm break or to kill or root your pet before it gets to you after you invis.

Distance, distance, distance.

Spyglass helps with going from invis to root/nuke immediately. Without, you still are fine just move back after you invis to buy the extra time to recover for your nuke/root. I'd say spyglass is pretty mandatory. It's annoying, but pretty mandatory. THey're under 100pp that I've seen on green lately. In my videos you can see me keeping root on my top slot usually iirc, because a spyglass lets you recast a root instantly after a resist.

You can use bandage and troll for regen as needed, but you really won't need that much if you do the stuff above. Especially keeping your distance. For real, not being in melee range is the best way to stay safe while leveling up. And it's pretty damn easy to do almost all the time, even in dungeons. Being too close to your pet and enemy are the #1 reason in my experienced opinion why enchanters think "charming is dangerous to use for solo leveling." You may see level 50+ enchanters able to stand in close quarters with their quarry as they exp, but that's because they have a lot more mana and better runes and multiple stuns to more effectively handle charm breaks, and even then I still don't think it's a good idea to be close to anything you're charming unless the dungeon forces it or you're dealing with level 51+ mobs. Doing this instead of using distance to protect you (and runes as a safety measure) is like purposely using a larger nuke than you need to finish off a mob - you're using more mana than you need to, which obviously slows down your exp.

Use downgraded nukes to finish off a mob without using extra mana.

Meditating is 1 mana per 12 skill, plus the base 2 for being seated.

I assume you're only ever charming or otherwise casting on stuff that you've already tashed (though mezzing stuff you haven't tashed yet is fine - with charisma you won't basically ever get resists on blue mobs anyways, I'd do this to split a two-spawn sometimes by mezzing one, tashing the other, charming the tashed one, tashing the first and rooting as pet engages, all possible without getting meleed by using max casting range and telescope).

Downtime is higher than blue guides/videos/memories because there's no breeze or clarity (or wandering mind, ToT, and C2), less charisma gear readily available, etc.

Otherwise it sounds like you're ok, fighting against low blues and up in the 20s you should start to notice charm functioning better when you're dealing with them compared to trying to use it in the teens. Etc.


Unfortunately I don't have Noman leveling videos starting at the very beginning, but I do have them starting around 30, and if you check those out you can see me using these things to solo effectively with little/no twinking. IIRC Noman started charm solo at 15 or 16 in Kerra Isle basically untwinked and these strats were already working pretty dang well at that point. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245100

[strawman]

When you try some of this stuff, like using the Color stun(s), getting a spyglass, trying duos...let us know how it goes!

videos and tips

Interesting video - I watched the gators in CT. That goblin gaz ring really makes a difference, but I can see how the spyglass might be enough to make this work.

Takeaways from this thread -

Get a spyglass
Create more distance
Use rune
Try color stun


I'm going to try all this and see if charm soloing gets a bit quicker and more reliable.

After the spyglass, what's a good clicky available on Green? The stein/shovel/broom/torch with reclaim energy?

[Videri]

Soon, Temple of Solusek Ro will be added and that will grant you the Rod of Insidious Glamour quest. Another one to consider is Star of Eyes. Both of these require a target, however (can't cast it if your target bar is clear - but it will work if you target yourself or a corpse or anything - totally possible to work around this). I can't think of any more classic ones until...Amulet of Necropotence. But, shall we say, that costs more than a 50p spyglass.

For wizards, the flux staff and acumen mask are a nice pair.

We'll have to wait until Kunark for the Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring and the Bracer of the Hidden.

[sentinel]

I mained an enchanter on blue -- just group until 40 plus or they put in clarity. I found it too inefficient.

[drackgon]

as Heads up before you break said charm with invis. Tell your pet to /pet guard here.

Then run away max distance.. invis.. cast roll/mez and win:)

[Tecmos Deception]

Try color stun


No. Don't do this except as a last resort or when killing level 51+ mobs.

[Meiva]

I'm doing high greens and blues with 180 CHA

Woh woh woh. Hold up now. How are you at 180 CHA at 24? What you got equipped, man? A Crude Stein for certain. What else?

[cd288]

as Heads up before you break said charm with invis. Tell your pet to /pet guard here.

Then run away max distance.. invis.. cast roll/mez and win:)

What am I missing? How does the pet guard help?

[Meiva]

What am I missing? How does the pet guard help?

It's just about getting distance on your pet before break. Allows you to hit with root or mez. Doesn't work well in all situations, such as tight dungeons. /pet sit would work as well, but sit can cause the pet to regen slightly quicker.

[cd288]

It's just about getting distance on your pet before break. Allows you to hit with root or mez. Doesn't work well in all situations, such as tight dungeons. /pet sit would work as well, but sit can cause the pet to regen slightly quicker.

Except the pet should already be in one place since it's fighting another mob. So what would you need to tell it to guard that spot for

[Meiva]

Except the pet should already be in one place since it's fighting another mob. So what would you need to tell it to guard that spot for

Right. This doesn't work how I charm. Charm is broken before other mob(s) is dead. I think many play it safe though.

[cd288]

Right. This doesn't work how I charm. Charm is broken before other mob(s) is dead. I think many play it safe though.

So confused. If mob is fighting another mob, it will stay in place while fighting another mob. Therefore no guard command is needed. Once you break charm with invis, you have no control over the pet obviously so a guard command wouldn't work to keep it in place.

[Meiva]

Charm pet kills mob. Charm pet just following you around. Guard the charmed pet and run away. Break and mez or root.

Maybe I missed part of the uninteresting story, but I think you are confused.

[Tecmos Deception]

Charm pet kills mob. Charm pet just following you around. Guard the charmed pet and run away. Break and mez or root.

Maybe I missed part of the uninteresting story, but I think you are confused.

Right. This doesn't work how I charm. Charm is broken before other mob(s) is dead. I think many play it safe though.

You are the one making it confusing.

[drackgon]

What Meiva said. IF you are using INVIS to break ur own charm. the Pet guard helps. If its breaking during combat like others have said. You still still be as far as you can. If you can get an GCD item like telescope it will also help by allowing you to remez or root faster.

[Kron]

I'm far from been an expert but I did grind out 24-26 solo and it was faster then what I was lvling in Guk.

Issue with a group is that some groups will rock on pulls, but you can also get a slow puller/spawn.

It feels like it's slower soloing because of down time, but I would see my exp bar move so much faster then sitting in a group.

I only have 140 CHA with buff and use the typical strategy. I Root enemy and Tash it then send in pet. Roughly at 10-15% I get far back and cast Inv and just go straight to Nuke which 80% of the time it results in them running. I then finish them off and deal with rooted mob after.

[cd288]

What Meiva said. IF you are using INVIS to break ur own charm. the Pet guard helps. If its breaking during combat like others have said. You still still be as far as you can. If you can get an GCD item like telescope it will also help by allowing you to remez or root faster.

Pet guard has no effect on anything as far as I can tell. Sick your pet on the other mob and then run backwards and you’ll be as far away as you can/need to be while the mob stays right where it was fighting the other mob. Pet guard not needed

[drackgon]

Cd288.. red OP orginal post. He talks about how he cast invis to break his charm (Aka killing a really Low hp Charmed pet for its xp, b4 charming another.) So it does. By pet guarding it then running a good distance this gives you time to nuke it or root it:)

Or same thing say ur sitting and ur pet is guarding 20 ft from you means more time when it breaks, to stand and not take auto max hits:)

"Much more often, I'll end up around half health. Sometimes this is because of a random charm break. Mostly it's because, after casting invisibility to intentionally break the charm, the mob gets in a few hits before I can root, mez or kill it."

[strawman]

Woh woh woh. Hold up now. How are you at 180 CHA at 24? What you got equipped, man? A Crude Stein for certain. What else?

Besides the stein, I'm a high elf with max points in charisma, using sympathetic aura, with the silver cat eye neck, two gold cat eye bracelets, the +5 cha tunic from the vendor in Qeynos, and two opalline earrings from spending a couple levels at Unrest fireplace.

I think I understand the pet guard discussion. When the pet gets to 10%, you can either just cast invis while it's still fighting - in which case guard isn't needed - or you can pull the pet back a little and tell it to guard, so it doesn't keep getting hit while you cast.

[fadetree]

The pet guard is for when you are breaking with a pet not in combat. The point is to get the pet to stand still while you back off...otherwise it follows you.

[cd288]

Cd288.. red OP orginal post. He talks about how he cast invis to break his charm (Aka killing a really Low hp Charmed pet for its xp, b4 charming another.) So it does. By pet guarding it then running a good distance this gives you time to nuke it or root it:)

Or same thing say ur sitting and ur pet is guarding 20 ft from you means more time when it breaks, to stand and not take auto max hits:)

"Much more often, I'll end up around half health. Sometimes this is because of a random charm break. Mostly it's because, after casting invisibility to intentionally break the charm, the mob gets in a few hits before I can root, mez or kill it."

Except doing that defeats the point of charm killing. The whole point of charm killing is to ensure you get 100% exp from both mobs. So you should be using invis to break charm BEFORE the non-charmed mob is killed, not after. If you break charm with invis before the non-charmed mob is killed, the mob you had charmed before will just be where it was fighting the other mob. Pet guard isn't needed unless for some inexplicable reason you want your charmed pet to kill the other mob and take 50% exp before you break charm and kill the pet.

[nicemace]

Except doing that defeats the point of charm killing. The whole point of charm killing is to ensure you get 100% exp from both mobs. So you should be using invis to break charm BEFORE the non-charmed mob is killed, not after. If you break charm with invis before the non-charmed mob is killed, the mob you had charmed before will just be where it was fighting the other mob. Pet guard isn't needed unless for some inexplicable reason you want your charmed pet to kill the other mob and take 50% exp before you break charm and kill the pet.

its okay to let the pet do some kills. if youre gonna burn more time / mana / hp fluffing around trying to break pet just so you can nuke your target then re charm... in SOME situations you could probably just kill 2 mobs, work on 3rd, get pet low. break charm kill pet kill 3rd.

obviously this is situation dependent and it comes down to your judgement and the environment that youre killing in.

[unleashedd]

question: charm mob > send at another mob > at target low hp, back off pet and memblur target, then nuke = will this grant 100% exp?

[Meiva]

question: charm mob > send at another mob > at target low hp, back off pet and memblur target, then nuke = will this grant 100% exp?

Yea it can work, if blur sticks. I tried it for a while. Losing half exp every now and again was driving me mad.

You also monitor your pet hp. I spam /pet health so that I can use my chanter tools to keep both mobs at similar hp totals. I think that ideally when you charm, all mobs are about the same level.

[unleashedd]

blur always sticks. if you cast lvl4 mez. from behind. out of agro range.

so the supreme strat should be:
1. send charmed pet in
2. position self in rear arc of target, at close to max casting range. wait for low hp
3. start casting lvl4 mez, while spamming the petbackoff
4. nuke and win

lvl4 mez (and possibly any mez; i dont know, i dont use other ones) is 100% memblur which can be confirmed by con, or by seeing the mob engage text. since your pet will be in front arc of the target, as soon as mez lands, target will re-agro as if never engaged, onto your pet... but its mezzed. so a lowlevel nuke should yield full exp to you, since the target doesnt know who did the 99% of the dmg, and it doesnt know why its at 25hp :)

[Widan]

I don't think mez works the way you think unless they changed something. I distinctly remember having to cast it multiple times to memblur and heal up pets I wanted to keep back in the day.

[Josa]

One thing I didn't see mentioned yet is that some stuff charms easily and stays charmed, while other things are very difficult to charm. Also, after reading the brilliant guide on the wiki, I practiced charming on light blues & greens until I found the most efficient way to solo without taking a hit, as well as the best charm break rotation for me. And at least on blue, I pretty much ignored Cha and expected stuff to break, honestly it made it exciting.

[unleashedd]

I don't think mez works the way you think unless they changed something. I distinctly remember having to cast it multiple times to memblur and heal up pets I wanted to keep back in the day.

from behind at max range? thats the key

[zillabunny]

I'm far from been an expert but I did grind out 24-26 solo and it was faster then what I was lvling in Guk.

Issue with a group is that some groups will rock on pulls, but you can also get a slow puller/spawn.

It feels like it's slower soloing because of down time, but I would see my exp bar move so much faster then sitting in a group.

I only have 140 CHA with buff and use the typical strategy. I Root enemy and Tash it then send in pet. Roughly at 10-15% I get far back and cast Inv and just go straight to Nuke which 80% of the time it results in them running. I then finish them off and deal with rooted mob after.


Where didi you charm solo at this range?

[DMN]

i was dinking around with my chanter and EVERY cast, at least 50 times i used it, mez memory blurred. Not very classic. It was pet that was being mez'd though, so perhaps there is some quirk there.

[Swish]

i was dinking around with my chanter and EVERY cast, at least 50 times i used it, mez memory blurred. Not very classic. It was pet that was being mez'd though, so perhaps there is some quirk there.

Prove it (that this happened 50 times straight)

[DMN]

50+ times, probably closer to 100 times. Like I said though i suspect this is some quirk with mezing pets.

[Polycaster]

50+ times, probably closer to 100 times. Like I said though i suspect this is some quirk with mezing pets.

How do you mez a pet, since by definition if you can mez it it is not your pet.

[jacob54311]

How do you mez a pet, since by definition if you can mez it it is not your pet.

And why does the poster think simply repeating his claim is the proof that the other poster was asking for?

[DMN]

How do you mez a pet, since by definition if you can mez it it is not your pet.

Because enemies have pets, too, dumb ass.

[DMN]

And why does the poster think simply repeating his claim is the proof that the other poster was asking for?

I'm still waiting for swish to prove he exists.

[jacob54311]

Because enemies have pets, too, dumb ass.

LOL. So it was only when you mezzing enemies' pets that this was happening?

Not too significant an issue then is it?

[Swish]

I'm still waiting for swish to prove he exists.

I'm not real. I'm just a mirage.

[cd288]

Prove it (that this happened 50 times straight)

This has not happened to me on my Enchanter alt on Green. It does seem to happen more often the further away from the mezzed mob you are, but I haven't seen it happen more frequently than it did on Blue nor anywhere near every time.

[zillabunny]

Where can an enchanter charm solo from 23 to 26 faster than upper guk group please

[cd288]

Where can an enchanter charm solo from 23 to 26 faster than upper guk group please

Hmm maybe Lake Rathe Arena guards? Centaurs in SK might be doable but they might be a little high. SK KFC would likely have a bunch of spawns in the low 20s. I think Permafrost might have Goblins near the entrance you could do, but I can't recall if those would be too low. Honestly, once you hit like 24 or 25 the HK Goblins group is probably the best XP for like 5 or 6 levels. I'd rather hit that group than Charm solo.

[zillabunny]

Awesome thanks!

[DMN]

Rather arena guards? All 2 of them? Cents in SK? Oh ya social mobs that run SoW speed are always a recipe for success on a soloing chanter.

[Tecmos Deception]

Rather arena guards? All 2 of them? Cents in SK? Oh ya social mobs that run SoW speed are always a recipe for success on a soloing chanter.

There are 10 different aviak guard spawns in lake rathe. A single by itself, two singles by arena, 2 doubles in towers, and the triple spawn.

DMN's knowledge of EQ has improved! (6)

[DMN]

There are 10 different aviak guard spawns in lake rathe. A single by itself, two singles by arena, 2 doubles in towers, and the triple spawn.

DMN's knowledge of EQ has improved! (6)

He said arena guards. Don't try to be a smart ass when you are clearly a dumb one.

[cd288]

He said arena guards. Don't try to be a smart ass when you are clearly a dumb one.

And why would that not be a good solo spot? It's well known as a great solo spot.

You Charm kill the two, and have some time to med to full while they respawn. The Arena ZL is right there if things go poorly, you can drop a stun on them and zone.

Really low effort trying to say those guards aren't a solid solo spot lol.

[Tecmos Deception]

cd suggested a spot to solo, DMN mocked that spot since there are only 2 there, I pointed out the zone has quite a few more aviak spawns since the two by arena are the two most people go to and many people don't know of all the other locations in the zone.

/shrug