Zerg guilds solution

[ilgart112]

The bane of EQ are zerg guilds. Currently Green's zerg guild is <Seal Team>. These guilds truly ruin the everquest experience. I heard naggy was zerged down a few nights ago and i saw some footage of some 500 deaths or so. I was absolutely disgusted.

any guild that fields more than 35 players should be forced PVP flagged in any zone that a raid mob exists.

Staff please make this happen.

-Ilgart the wise

[bubur]

cool thanks for the suggestion. im sure it will be seriously considered

next

[Fammaden]

Solution for OP: one week posting bans to the red forums anytime PvP is suggested as a solution to a normal server's problems.

[ilgart112]

Solution for OP: one week posting bans to the red forums anytime PvP is suggested as a solution to a normal server's problems.

some of the staff has suggested pvp as solution to raid problems already. sorry you are out of the loop.

[Fammaden]

One single snarky comment from Haynar. You ruined your own lands, stfu and go back to them with the other three people.

[curtischoy]

some of the staff has suggested pvp as solution to raid problems already. sorry you are out of the loop.

Can you quote anything that is not Haynar making a bad joke?

[bubur]

some of the staff has suggested pvp as solution to raid problems already. sorry you are out of the loop.

think you might have got wooshed my man

[ilgart112]

you guys are seriously toxic

[bubur]

eq pvp sucks dude. you know what would actually happen if you did this? everyone would join the zerg because theyd be terrified of getting shit stomped by those 35 people.

and if a second guild got a sizeable force to contest, the stress of batphoning, buffing up, and charging in, only to get wiped by a force that wins by sheer numbers and/or gear advantage from zerging longer would a) drive the leadership insane and prune out any normal individuals from the decision-making crew, and b) destroy the guild

it happened over and over on red, for like half a decade now. there have never been 2 reasonably equally geared/numbered guilds on red in its history. except arguably at the very beginning in classic, until one of the guilds coerced a gm into obliterating the second and it was all over forever

sorry if you thought we were being dismissive of your idea and you were serious, but it wont work

[zodium]

eq pvp sucks dude.

[Videri]

eq pvp sucks dude. you know what would actually happen if you did this? everyone would join the zerg because theyd be terrified of getting shit stomped by those 35 people.

and if a second guild got a sizeable force to contest, the stress of batphoning, buffing up, and charging in, only to get wiped by a force that wins by sheer numbers and/or gear advantage from zerging longer would a) drive the leadership insane and prune out any normal individuals from the decision-making crew, and b) destroy the guild

it happened over and over on red, for like half a decade now. there have never been 2 reasonably equally geared/numbered guilds on red in its history

sorry if you thought we were being dismissive of your idea and you were serious, but it wont work

As usual, porridge-guy nailed it. PvP requires an even zergier strategy.

OP, <Seal Team> hasn't denied anyone else content yet because no one else is ready for it, so there is no problem yet. We'll see how things play out as other guilds reach the levels and numbers required to do the small amount of higher-level content that exists here.

[zodium]

there is content for exactly one raid guild in vanilla and none of the raid targets are at all hard

[ilgart112]

if people try to zerg then set guild caps, problem solved

[Danth]

Roster caps do nothing because the guilds will simply operate as alliances. Somehow ban alliances (ban having friends in a multiplayer game? Truly daft!) and now you've made the problem worse instead of better because the highest-end nolifers will keep everything of importance on lockdown anyway but now they won't be inviting everyone else along for the ride like they presently do. Current "zerg guild" situation isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of things. Over P1999's history the top guilds have never been particularly exclusive. Want to do the high-end content? Join the top guild and do it. The only people who miss out are the stubborn souls who act like they can't spend 6 months (or whatever) getting their pixels then re-join their lower-end buddies once they've done so.

Actual changes would require things like rotations or instancing but so far the P1999 admins have been largely opposed to such notions. As Green/Teal raiding (inevitably, almost) turns into a trainwreck in the coming months this resistance may conceivably be revisited now that there are multiple servers out there as well as a lot of new players in the mix who they would presumably like to see stick around. It's too early now, but give it time and that window may open.

-------------------------------------------------------

As for PvP...don't even bother trying to talk on the level with Red trolls. Most of them don't want a stable server, they're just looking for the next "box" they can burn down.

Danth

[ilgart112]

i just cant imagine a group of people even having more than 35 really close friends they want to play with. (you claim not allowing friends to play together by a 35 player cap) majority of these huge guilds are small factions that hate each other but do it for the pixels.

[ilgart112]

As usual, porridge-guy nailed it. PvP requires an even zergier strategy.

OP, <Seal Team> hasn't denied anyone else content yet because no one else is ready for it, so there is no problem yet. We'll see how things play out as other guilds reach the levels and numbers required to do the small amount of higher-level content that exists here.

if you watch the zerg video the guild leader stated "if you like what you saw here in this video we plan on taking all the pixels we can as fast as we can and be the top guild on the server"

[MonkLife]

Why are there more PvP players on the forums than on red?

[Danth]

Alright then, look at it this way: If you limit guild sizes and ban alliances, you're effectively forcing instancing except without the instances. Meaning instead of ~200 people in the top high-end guild getting to do the top content, now you have the same top content being killed by much smaller numbers. There is no raid content in the old world, and maybe not in Kunark, that can't be killed by 35 people or fewer. Those ~35 people are the ones who are presently carrying the coattail-riders anyhow, so they might not even mind all that much.

Zerg roster sizes and non-exclusive guilds are the one thing keeping non-instanced raiding even halfway tolerable for folks who want to do it.

Danth

[ilgart112]

Why are there more PvP players on the forums than on red?

cause staff hasnt invested the time to establish a raid system for pvp like they have established a raid system for pve on blue

[Spock2020]

For all the awesome gear there is atm won't make much of a difference. When planes start then all the talk about gear becomes relevant. Until then its more sheer numbers.

[ilgart112]

Alright then, look at it this way: If you limit guild sizes and ban alliances, you're effectively forcing instancing except without the instances. Meaning instead of ~200 people in the top high-end guild getting to do the top content, now you have the same top content being killed by much smaller numbers. There is no raid content in the old world, and maybe not in Kunark, that can't be killed by 35 people or fewer. Those ~35 people are the ones who are presently carrying the coattail-riders anyhow, so they might not even mind all that much.

Zerg roster sizes and non-exclusive guilds are the one thing keeping non-instanced raiding even halfway tolerable for folks who want to do it.

Danth

on red99 kunark era we did naggy with 6 people
we did CT with 8 people
we did vox with 6 people
we did sky with 12 people

granted this was kunark era and better loot, in classic id imagine we could do it all with less than 20.

it just requires some basic strategy and people to think. its really not that hard.

[ilgart112]

The reason red players play red is because the pve has become stale and we need something extra for a challenge. it looks to me like as a whole blue is becoming the same way, and its time to implement pvp to bring things to the next level.

[Danth]

Joke's on me for not checking forum names I was responding to. Didn't follow my own advice!

As for PvP...don't even bother trying to talk on the level with Red trolls. Most of them don't want a stable server, they're just looking for the next "box" they can burn down.

[Spock2020]

There is more action on green/teal then on red that's why they are here lol.

[Larken]

Most people say "EQ pvp sucks". But despite what everyone thinks of pvp, there is for sure one aspect of EQ that sucks infinitely more.
You guessed it -> Blue/green server, stale high end lawyer-questing with layers on layers of rules, just to keep the adults playing the game in an orderly fashion.

I'd take pvp any day, with any rule set over that. Heck, I'd even factor in being griefed occasionally as part of the deal. In the end, I'd probably save time anyway.

[ilgart112]

Its about having fun not about getting loot. The current system is just not fun imo. Sitting in a line and or zerg with mouth breathing zerglings. I dont plan on doing any green/teal raiding its just super lame. you would have to be some kind of psychopath to enjoy the current zerg system. was a fun few weeks getting to 50 to shortly relive the eq experience.

to the staff you coded an amazing server, I just cant wait for you all to be ready to take things to the next level for the hardcore players.

ill be waiting for the next pvp experience.

[Larken]

Its about having fun not about getting loot. The current system is just not fun imo. Sitting in a line and or zerg with mouth breathing zerglings. I dont plan on doing any green/teal raiding its just super lame. you would have to be some kind of psychopath to enjoy the current zerg system. was a fun few weeks getting to 50 to shortly relive the eq experience.

to the staff you coded an amazing server, I just cant wait for you all to be ready to take things to the next level for the hardcore players.

ill be waiting for the next pvp experience.

2nd that.

[worm4real]

The thing is that the percentage of people who are going to have to deal with rules lawyering or manastone camping is pretty low. So PVP 'fixing' those aspects of the game is too high of a price to pay for most people.

In the end I think for your average MMO PVP is about as popular as high end crafting or other really niche things, but it does well on twitch so it gets more attention from devs than it would in an otherwise fair system. There is always a really loud minority shouting for PVP but none of the really PVP focused things have much of a lifetime because it really relies on blackmailing people who hate PVP into joining up with some promise of a more perfect experience.

Two great examples I can think of are Tera where people clamored for PVP prior to level 45 (which was when pvp started on ktera) it of course was a mess of low level ganking because nothing about sub 45 stats was balanced for PVP and all the low level maps were awful choke points. Another one was some popular PVP streamer asking for open PVP in FFXIV of all places, which would have the same issues of choke point rich maps and stats that simply aren't designed for open PVP.

I'm willing to believe EQ PVP is somewhat different, but I've seen the same thing out of PVP'ers for years, it is the alpha and omega, it is the solution to every problem, it is the most enjoyable mode. Which is true for some people but not most. As if the crazy people who are asserting control through rules lawyering and superior numbers will somehow find themselves disadvantaged while PVP flagged.

[Spock2020]

There would be other ways to do it. Spawn vox/naggy by devs for other guilds. Of course would need to make sure seal team members are not members of that other guild.

[Juntsie]

Dere must be consideration paid dat many squishies who charge dragon entitled to da dragon loots. It like when froglock pile atop troll in da swamp. It not gud or fair, but it work!

[Tilien]

Problem: It's not fair that 35 people are hogging the pixels for themselves.

Solution: Only allow 20 people to get those pixels by restricting guild sizes.

[mycoolrausch]

Only velious has enough content for multiple raid guilds. And only with a healthy supply of quakes, or long FTE lockouts. Otherwise it's an uninstanced game and you better join the top guild and start saving DKP.

[korzax]

Most people say "EQ pvp sucks". But despite what everyone thinks of pvp, there is for sure one aspect of EQ that sucks infinitely more.
You guessed it -> Blue/green server, stale high end lawyer-questing with layers on layers of rules, just to keep the adults playing the game in an orderly fashion.

I'd take pvp any day, with any rule set over that. Heck, I'd even factor in being griefed occasionally as part of the deal. In the end, I'd probably save time anyway.

How about being griefed none stop, you open to that?

[korzax]

Its about having fun not about getting loot. The current system is just not fun imo. Sitting in a line and or zerg with mouth breathing zerglings. I dont plan on doing any green/teal raiding its just super lame. you would have to be some kind of psychopath to enjoy the current zerg system. was a fun few weeks getting to 50 to shortly relive the eq experience.

to the staff you coded an amazing server, I just cant wait for you all to be ready to take things to the next level for the hardcore players.

ill be waiting for the next pvp experience.

Yeah, see you at the manastone camp every damn day.

[Magerin]

Easier solution is place a agro list limit on a mob. hit that limit, that person is removed from the zone (kinda like agroing vox/naggy on a lvl 53+ on blue) Problem solved. The only question remains is, how many is enough in classic?????

[korzax]

What is wrong with a zerg? Not like the dragons drop loot according to how many people are there. Same amount of loot, just more backs to clothe.

[Mirakk82]

Uhh, going in with a ridiculous number of people is something I'd seen back in the day. I think I was part of a 57 player open raid on Naggy on Ayonae Ro, which is its own kind of hilarity.

[aaezil]

Roster caps do nothing because the guilds will simply operate as alliances. Somehow ban alliances (ban having friends in a multiplayer game? Truly daft!) and now you've made the problem worse instead of better because the highest-end nolifers will keep everything of importance on lockdown anyway but now they won't be inviting everyone else along for the ride like they presently do. Current "zerg guild" situation isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of things. Over P1999's history the top guilds have never been particularly exclusive. Want to do the high-end content? Join the top guild and do it. The only people who miss out are the stubborn souls who act like they can't spend 6 months (or whatever) getting their pixels then re-join their lower-end buddies once they've done so.

Actual changes would require things like rotations or instancing but so far the P1999 admins have been largely opposed to such notions. As Green/Teal raiding (inevitably, almost) turns into a trainwreck in the coming months this resistance may conceivably be revisited now that there are multiple servers out there as well as a lot of new players in the mix who they would presumably like to see stick around. It's too early now, but give it time and that window may open.

-------------------------------------------------------

As for PvP...don't even bother trying to talk on the level with Red trolls. Most of them don't want a stable server, they're just looking for the next "box" they can burn down.

Danth

What if i told you that Teal server is an instance

[Lone Gnome]

people were horrible on classic and had to zerg everything

everything was extremely laggy too, deal with it

[Khikik]

Maybe there would be less Zerg'ing if the Terran and Protoss players played better

Also very classic. Every server may have had a different experience. But in general typically the top guild was also the biggest, or if not the biggest at least had the most dedicated players in sufficient numbers show up when needed to raid the majority of the time.

[jacob54311]

What if i told you that Teal server is an instance

I'd say you don't know what an instance is.

[Fifield]

eq pvp sucks dude.

[Rooj]

People complained about zerg guilds on Blue. After 10 years, nothing changed, except that one brief time towards the end of Kunark (which was abolished once Velious came out), where we had some sort of staff enforced lockout on raid mobs. I don't recall exactly how it worked and the information has been removed from www.project1999.com/raid.php, but IMO the only change you're likely to get is a re-implementation of this system. I imagine the staff view limiting guild member numbers as well as limiting the amount of players who may engage a mob as "not Classic" so it'll never happen. But there were live servers out there who utilized rotations for raid mobs and is why the late Kunark era raid system is more likely to be used if anything.

I do imagine that the staff already has thoughts and plans (even if those plans are to do nothing at all) about raiding on Green/Teal. But the above mentioned system isn't necessary yet so you probably won't hear anything about raiding from the staff for a while, until multiple guilds are involved.

[AgentEpilot]

Make raid gear drop off decaying skeletons, problem solved!

[Thievery]

I'm unsure why you even care since you told us that you have no intentions to raid on Green / Teal. The kill was a ton of fun for those involved.

I've never attempted Naggy with a group consisting of such a low player level average. In fact I was 46 for the attempt and I believe it's the first time I've ever been less than 50 myself.

As for the 35 player cap, I'm pretty sure we had 14 more than your proposed number, but I know for a fact a couple of those players were under level 20 and many were under 35. Props to the guild for finding something useful for those players on an endgame target.

We all know Naggy isn't hard but sometimes its just fun to go slay a dragon.

[kotton05]

Eq pvp doesn’t suck I think you suck

[zodium]

Eq pvp doesn’t suck I think you suck

eq pvp sucks dude.

[capco]

eq pvp sucks dude.

[Purplefluffy]

some of the staff has suggested pvp as solution to raid problems already. sorry you are out of the loop.

I think restricted PvP is the best option, whether that be on a zone by zone basis or through some type of guild war function.

I am not a big fan of min/maxers and the type of play that means High Keep and even the bankers there become nothing but a way to get easy exp via power leveling etc. etc., but you know, nothing I can do about that and people are free to play as they see fit.

Oh, thanks for the Hero Bracers.

[Haynar]

The bane of EQ are zerg guilds. Currently Green's zerg guild is <Seal Team>. These guilds truly ruin the everquest experience. I heard naggy was zerged down a few nights ago and i saw some footage of some 500 deaths or so. I was absolutely disgusted.

any guild that fields more than 35 players should be forced PVP flagged in any zone that a raid mob exists.

Staff please make this happen.

-Ilgart the wise
By popular demand. A snarky remark from Haynar.

OP. You can go play on red. Gives you exactly what you are asking for.

[Uuruk]

By popular demand. A snarky remark from Haynar.

OP. You can go play on red. Gives you exactly what you are asking for.

problem is red doesnt get 35 players soooo