My crap post for today.

[bum3]

1999 you ran through dungeon X... group here.. group there.. group everywhere... 2019 you run through dungeon X... group here... ench solo there... ench solo everywhere. But it's not just enchanters... people are soloing everywhere. And soloing light blues instead of grouping. Befallen you have lvl 15s soloing first floor. Getting no exp on some mobs but killing them so a light blue pops in their place. Lvl 8 group zones in and there isn't any mobs and only 3 people on first floor. And we aren't even twink quest yet. Sure there are rubicite bp pallies running around with GBs.. but only a few.

I was 1 of the people killing light greens in befallen on an alt. I gave my area to the group. It's the right thing to do. But the other 2 refused to let them get exp. Makes me wonder why. And I see this is many dungeons. People with surnames killing orc cents. People with surnames farming yard trash in unrest. lvl 40s keeping zone in area clear of lizards...

Am I just that bad of a crap poster?

[RipVanFish]

P99 has a much higher concentration of neckbeards.

[Ligma]

So much attention on enchanters when a mostly solo cleric was 30 min from first 50. Nerf clerics, I don't remember them soloing on classic.

[bigjeff100]

I feel ya man.. I've just about hung up the'ol hat on green.. The amount of toxic, overly invested players is way to high. >>>Storytime<<< Incoming!

Last weekend I was casually LFG in EC.. Cause everything i do is casual... Dude reached out to me on my 11 cleric asking if i wanted a befallen group

-Told him "yes! Omw!"
-He then responded- "You ready for a long session? Are you geared?
-I said "no i'm not geared, and i'm not sure how long i have, but i should be good to go for a while"!

I was instantly hit with back to back to back messages

- "Somebody answered same time as you
- "He's good for 6 hours"
- "Gonna take him bro"
- "So i don't have to replace you quick, you know?"
- "I'm sorry my friend"

I mean, I get it I guess? Just seems kinda gross...

[bum3]

So much attention on enchanters when a mostly solo cleric was 30 min from first 50. Nerf clerics, I don't remember them soloing on classic.

I do.. i remember them soloing spectres in feerott... a lot.

[bum3]

I feel ya man.. I've just about hung up the'ol hat on green.. The amount of toxic, overly invested players is way to high. >>>Storytime<<< Incoming!

Last weekend I was casually LFG in EC.. Cause everything i do is casual... Dude reached out to me on my 11 cleric asking if i wanted a befallen group

-Told him "yes! Omw!"
-He then responded- "You ready for a long session? Are you geared?
-I said "no i'm not geared, and i'm not sure how long i have, but i should be good to go for a while"!

I was instantly hit with back to back to back messages

- "Somebody answered same time as you
- "He's good for 6 hours"
- "Gonna take him bro"
- "So i don't have to replace you quick, you know?"
- "I'm sorry my friend"

I mean, I get it I guess? Just seems kinda gross...

Sheesh. 6 hour session. That's rough. I'm not a kid anymore. I get stuff like that too when i'm looking for people for my group... they have LFG on.. say we got a spot at camp X for you... they reply i'm getting off soon... 1 hour later they still sitting with LFG on. Wowow... that picky for a certain exp camp but jo0 just lfg.

[Jack N]

This post is crap.

[bum3]

This post is crap.

Hell yeah. Nailed it!

[cd288]

I feel ya man.. I've just about hung up the'ol hat on green.. The amount of toxic, overly invested players is way to high. >>>Storytime<<< Incoming!

Last weekend I was casually LFG in EC.. Cause everything i do is casual... Dude reached out to me on my 11 cleric asking if i wanted a befallen group

-Told him "yes! Omw!"
-He then responded- "You ready for a long session? Are you geared?
-I said "no i'm not geared, and i'm not sure how long i have, but i should be good to go for a while"!

I was instantly hit with back to back to back messages

- "Somebody answered same time as you
- "He's good for 6 hours"
- "Gonna take him bro"
- "So i don't have to replace you quick, you know?"
- "I'm sorry my friend"

I mean, I get it I guess? Just seems kinda gross...

The gear question is stupid since how can you expect some level 11 Cleric to be twink geared on a fresh server (also, who cares. Gear isn't that important in this era). But the time question is a fair one for an important class like a healer where you'd rather take the other person who is planning to stay longer.

[Wwen42]

This poast is like poop from a butt! Good work.

[bigjeff100]

I give the guy the benefit on the time thing. ESPECIALLY if you're gonna hit up a camp that you have to crawl to! I get that.. But there is also some flexibility between 30min and 6 hours.

The gear concern is a disgusting play though. And cannot be overlooked by any legit questions he may have asked....

[bum3]

I've seen tanks get turned away mid teens in full banded because they didn't have earrings/rings. It's kinda silly this early to be playing gear quest.

[Wwen42]

Aren't we all too old to take it that seriously? I don't have these issues soloing with my Nec though.

[bum3]

Some of us never grew up. We are still stuck in 1999.

[worm4real]

I've seen tanks get turned away mid teens in full banded because they didn't have earrings/rings. It's kinda silly this early to be playing gear quest.

Haha, what the fuck is wrong with people? Imagine dumping this much time into a private emulated server and all you do is shit all over it.

[gkmarino]

Never self incriminate. Say you're good to go for 24 hours.. and then when you have to leave an hour later just say something came up IRL and pretend to be frustrated.

[bum3]

Never self incriminate. Say you're good to go for 24 hours.. and then when you have to leave an hour later just say something came up IRL and pretend to be frustrated.

Such a player.

[bigjeff100]

Doesn't matter if the server is red, blue, green, teal, or purple.. The same gross people will always exist, and will always ruin it for others.. Just sucks it kills the motivation to login and want to play..

[turbosilk]

1999 you ran through dungeon X... group here.. group there.. group everywhere... 2019 you run through dungeon X... group here... ench solo there... ench solo everywhere. But it's not just enchanters... people are soloing everywhere. And soloing light blues instead of grouping. Befallen you have lvl 15s soloing first floor. Getting no exp on some mobs but killing them so a light blue pops in their place. Lvl 8 group zones in and there isn't any mobs and only 3 people on first floor. And we aren't even twink quest yet. Sure there are rubicite bp pallies running around with GBs.. but only a few.

I was 1 of the people killing light greens in befallen on an alt. I gave my area to the group. It's the right thing to do. But the other 2 refused to let them get exp. Makes me wonder why. And I see this is many dungeons. People with surnames killing orc cents. People with surnames farming yard trash in unrest. lvl 40s keeping zone in area clear of lizards...

Am I just that bad of a crap poster?

Sounds like a green server problem. I haven't seen any of that on teal.

[bum3]

Sounds like a green server problem. I haven't seen any of that on teal.

I'm on teal. =)

[Modwolf]

I'm on teal. =)

I was gonna say it sounds like a teal problem. More soloers wanting prime camps came to teal in hopes the low pop would allow them to.

[Frug]

Doesn't matter if the server is red, blue, green, teal, or purple.. The same gross people will always exist, and will always ruin it for others.. Just sucks it kills the motivation to login and want to play..

[Cuktus]

Sometimes I group, like last night. Sometimes I solo, like the night before last night. I am not going to give up my camp, whatever it is, just cause someone else wants wants it. It is strange to me someone would even ask me to do so. Now, if I can't hold everything I am claiming, sure, take the mobs I am not "engaging within a reasonable time". I have no problem with that.
This also works in reverse. There is no expectation on my part of mobs being free when I show up to a zone. Why would I?
OP said he gave up his camp for a group of lower level players. That it was the right thing to do. Why? What makes 6 people who didn't bother to scout out their camp more important then the first guy to start killing crap?

[zaneosak]

I'm guilty of this except I pretty much only duo. XP is just so damn slow in a full group. Back in the day I didn't know any better and I was a cleric so I had little options. It's hard when you're older with a job and responsibilities to use your 3-4 hours in the evening to play to get a yellow bubble in a full group when you can knock out 80% of your level in the same time.

Also I think Classic just doesn't cater to full grouping very well. In Kunark we have Karnors Castle, Old Sebilis that can house up to half a dozen full groups with great loot options to hope for while getting your sub-optimal full group XP.

[lordpazuzu]

I dunno. Today, just like in 99-00, I don't bother even looking for a group if I know I don't have the time to commit to it. It's a waste of my time and others.

[bum3]

OP said he gave up his camp for a group of lower level players. That it was the right thing to do. Why? What makes 6 people who didn't bother to scout out their camp more important then the first guy to start killing crap?

I'll answer this by saying that I wasn't getting exp for every mob. And impeding experience of other players is against the play nice policy. If all the mobs were giving me experience then that wouldn't have been the case. So, yeah it was the right thing to do. When I was a guide on Tunare... I forced many players to leave their non-exp camps for groups that could. If it was a good item camp it was with the understanding that the person who had to give up their non-exp camp it got first loot of it. Most players were happy with this, except the ones who wanted multiples of that item to sell.

[Baler]

Be nice to each other. Review the play nice policy.

Do on to others as thou wants done onto themself.

[Cuktus]

I'll answer this by saying that I wasn't getting exp for every mob. And impeding experience of other players is against the play nice policy. If all the mobs were giving me experience then that wouldn't have been the case. So, yeah it was the right thing to do. When I was a guide on Tunare... I forced many players to leave their non-exp camps for groups that could. If it was a good item camp it was with the understanding that the person who had to give up their non-exp camp it got first loot of it. Most players were happy with this, except the ones who wanted multiples of that item to sell.

Impeding xp gains and killing green, I dont think those are the same thing. Live rules and p99 rules are different. I looked in the PNP and I cant find any mention that mobs are required to grant xp to be claimed as part of a camp. I could very well be wrong here.

[Palemoon]

Another reason why EQ pvp makes for better in game community. People band together and group for protection and the solo enchanter that does not give way gets jumped.

[Zill]

If EQ PvP made for a better community, more than 20 people would play Red at any given time.

How is that not painfully obvious?

[Tecmos Deception]

If EQ PvP made for a better community, more than 20 people would play Red at any given time.

How is that not painfully obvious?

I guess only 20 people want that better community. Everyone else is bickering and KSing and hogging camps on the PVE servers and petitionquesting and faulty bug reporting shit to try to get their way :)

[Dirkdaring]

Yea I have seen it a few times, people camping mobs way below their group level, I'm not sure if they just dont know where to go, or when to move on to a new better location, or are just asshats.

Like i zoned into High hold keep to use the bank, the goblins in HHK range from 22 ish for the lookout room, and main first room, then between 28 and 34 for the warrior room, and the raider room.

There was 1 group set up at the bottom of the steps , at the first room . they were all lvl 33 to 35 , and were pulling all the goblins, in the zone , the 3 from lookout, and the 5 from main room which are all around 22 lvl , so 10 lvls lower than they are .

they could have set up in the warrior room, and pulled the warrior room, and the raider room, and let a group of low to mid 20s camp the lookout, and main room, instead of claiming all the mobs, but only getting exp for half of them.

[Ossigor]

Yeah, I saw a level 40 druid looking for group in Unrest the other day. I think the ZEMs just make it worth it, plus it's less risk when you're grouped with randos, and tanks don't have great gear for tanking white/yellow cons.

Group exp is pretty bad. I'm a damn warrior and I've found it more pleasant lately to solo (slowly) and then afk and do side hobbies or whatever while I regen.

[bum3]

Impeding xp gains and killing green, I dont think those are the same thing. Live rules and p99 rules are different. I looked in the PNP and I cant find any mention that mobs are required to grant xp to be claimed as part of a camp. I could very well be wrong here.

It doesn't specify. But that doesn't mean it's not the "right thing to do". Number 10 says you must not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. My interpretation, which includes guide guidelines from live circa 2000, that "normal playability" of a zone or area is for the purpose of gaining experience for character advancement. Raid zones/mobs are for gaining of high end items. The next part in bold "-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area." Which unless the person killing greens is only taking the named.. they are killing most of the mobs in the area.. because they can. If you want to follow the camp rules for dungeons.. then you can only take the room you claim and if there is a door or bend, what is on other side isn't yours to claim. Out door camps are a single spawn point.

Simple way I look at it is... don't be a prick. If you are trying to get certain items. Tell the group, hey, if you don't mind giving me the bone chips, you can have these mobs for exp. You'll find many people will be happy for arrangements like that. And that's what guides mean by players compromise before petitioning.

An example is in Crushbone other night. My group setup at Iron Orc and there was a group at tents. I contacted that group and said.. please leave us the cents and you can have our legions. Even though we could kill the red legions with a lvl 6-8 group, it made us have long downtimes and cents didn't give them exp anyway. They were more than happy to make this arrangement.

[Grakken]

Yea I have seen it a few times, people camping mobs way below their group level, I'm not sure if they just dont know where to go, or when to move on to a new better location, or are just asshats.

Like i zoned into High hold keep to use the bank, the goblins in HHK range from 22 ish for the lookout room, and main first room, then between 28 and 34 for the warrior room, and the raider room.

There was 1 group set up at the bottom of the steps , at the first room . they were all lvl 33 to 35 , and were pulling all the goblins, in the zone , the 3 from lookout, and the 5 from main room which are all around 22 lvl , so 10 lvls lower than they are .

they could have set up in the warrior room, and pulled the warrior room, and the raider room, and let a group of low to mid 20s camp the lookout, and main room, instead of claiming all the mobs, but only getting exp for half of them.


The barely giving XP mobs in high ZEM zones are the best XP/per hour. The time (and resources) to kill an even con versus the time to kill a Light Blue con, Light blue wins all day. The light blue to barely still dblue mobs in High ZeM zones killed en masse #bestxp.

[Cuktus]

It doesn't specify. But that doesn't mean it's not the "right thing to do". Number 10 says you must not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. My interpretation, which includes guide guidelines from live circa 2000, that "normal playability" of a zone or area is for the purpose of gaining experience for character advancement. Raid zones/mobs are for gaining of high end items. The next part in bold "-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area." Which unless the person killing greens is only taking the named.. they are killing most of the mobs in the area.. because they can. If you want to follow the camp rules for dungeons.. then you can only take the room you claim and if there is a door or bend, what is on other side isn't yours to claim. Out door camps are a single spawn point.

Simple way I look at it is... don't be a prick. If you are trying to get certain items. Tell the group, hey, if you don't mind giving me the bone chips, you can have these mobs for exp. You'll find many people will be happy for arrangements like that. And that's what guides mean by players compromise before petitioning.

An example is in Crushbone other night. My group setup at Iron Orc and there was a group at tents. I contacted that group and said.. please leave us the cents and you can have our legions. Even though we could kill the red legions with a lvl 6-8 group, it made us have long downtimes and cents didn't give them exp anyway. They were more than happy to make this arrangement.

I completely agree with you, "Don't be a prick". Absolutely. Your example is great, btw. Trading less effective mobs for more effective mobs just makes sense. Reds slow you down, while the other group had some crappy xp granting greens to trade for them. This has that wonderful classic community feel we all love.

I brought up greens and camps and granting xp in my last post on this thread, I regret that. I don't want to rules lawyer issues like this. We, the players, have added... not rules, per say, more like social norms, that are not listed anywhere. For example, the one mob camp in outdoor zones. We, the players, pretty much except that this isn't a real thing. For example, Millers in Qhills or Treants in SK. Guards outside of arena. The rule is there, no doubt, and if a guide/GM shows up and says, give it up, I will do so, no questions asked. But another player /petitioning for that to happen, well, like you say, don't be a prick.

To that end, here is my question: If I am soloing in Befallen for a few hour and have to clear green spawns to get those tasty low blue mobs I actually want, should I have to give up the camp for other players who can xp off both? Morally, not rules lawyery. To add some context, lets say giving up 1/2 of the spawns would making staying in location completely not worth the time for either party. Its an all or nothing kind of deal. Also, lets say, the party does not want to just clear the greens. They are completely able to hold down everything I have, regardless if they all spawn high. Who is the prick?

[bum3]

To that end, here is my question: If I am soloing in Befallen for a few hour and have to clear green spawns to get those tasty low blue mobs I actually want, should I have to give up the camp for other players who can xp off both? Morally, not rules lawyery. To add some context, lets say giving up 1/2 of the spawns would making staying in location completely not worth the time for either party. Its an all or nothing kind of deal. Also, lets say, the party does not want to just clear the greens. They are completely able to hold down everything I have, regardless if they all spawn high. Who is the prick?

Have the discussion with them. This is a social game designed around grouping. Experience penalties for classes that can solo and group bonuses to encourage grouping. I'd say that in your scenario the higher farmer is more of the prick (my opinion of course). You are already only getting half the mobs. But you expect them to get none just in case you will get a chance at a little more than half the spawns. If you are getting exp off every single mob then it's a moot point because that wasn't the case when I gave up the area I was killing. I would also say you are too high for the area you are in and need to move to a level appropriate area. It's up to you on how you handle it. And up to the group to /ignore you and add you to do not group list for the future. It might never effect you. But I have seen people excluded not only from future groups but from raids or guilds because they were on a few peoples list. Sure you can do the same. But 6 vs 1 isn't good odds to future prospects. And people making these lists are more common then you think.

[jacob54311]

Experience penalties for classes that can solo

Pretty sure that can't be the rationale for the hybrid xp penalty. If it were, druids, chanters, necros would have the biggest penalties in the game.

[bum3]

Pretty sure that can't be the rationale for the hybrid xp penalty. If it were, druids, chanters, necros would have the biggest penalties in the game.

The exp penalty is because hybrids are more powerful than non-hybrids. Warriors and rogues get exp bonuses but neither is half as effective at soloing. Caster have a 10% penalty. And you have to think of the classic ideology. Chanters didn't solo much. They were a CC group class. Charm was meant as a short term CC. Also, back then pets ate experience solo and even at a small percentage in groups(or at least was intended to). So while they could solo, they got much less per mob. You can get a lot about what they intended by reading the original class descriptions. They really emphasized grouping but made notes on a couple classes about being able to solo.

[jacob54311]

The exp penalty is because hybrids are more powerful than non-hybrids.

More powerful? I don't know about that. Hybrid melees are better than non hybrids at soloing generally, but even within the hybrids, some are much better at it than others.

I'm assuming you left out casters with your "more powerful" comment.

[bum3]

More powerful? I don't know about that. Hybrid melees are better than non hybrids at soloing generally, but even within the hybrids, some are much better at it than others.

I'm assuming you left out casters with your "more powerful" comment.

Way more powerful. Amount depends on perception. SKs are agro kings, fear kiting is very effective. Pallys hold agro well and has fairly low downtime. Rangers can fear kite too. Bards are just OP. Casters get a 10% exp penalty and suppose to get a 50% exp crutch if pet did more dmg. Which it is pretty mana intensive for a caster to do 51% of the dmg to get 90% of the exp every mob and that much damage also lands you with agro.

[jacob54311]

Casters get a 10% exp penalty and suppose to get a 50% exp crutch if pet did more dmg. .

I wasn't aware of a penalty on pure casters.

Are you interpreting the Warrior bonus as a penalty on the casters? If that's your logic, you should interpret as a penalty on all the other classes, everyone that's not a warrior.

Not sure about the "low downtime" comment for Paladin's either. I played one and you burned through a lot of mana and health fighting stuff beyond the low levels.

[bum3]

By Race:

Troll -20%
Iksar -20%
Ogre -15%
Barbarian -5%
Halfling +5%
By Class:

Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%
Monk -20%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer -10%
Rogue +9%
Warrior +10%

[bum3]

Warriors have to bind wound to 50%. Pallies can bind wound to 50% then heal further. Or heal during combat to negate downtime.

[Neverwinter27]

Wait, who is trying to camp entire zones on Green?

[jacob54311]

Warriors have to bind wound to 50%. Pallies can bind wound to 50% then heal further. Or heal during combat to negate downtime.

Less downtime than warriors doesn't mean low downtime! Warriors have the most downtime in the game when soloing, besides rogues, I think.

[worm4real]

I mean XP penalties are part of the experience on a classic server but it seems beyond the pale to argue that they actually are completely fair and were implemented relative to solo power. In practice a SK is not a better soloer than a Necro (even if a Necro went out of his way to give his pet 51% every time) nor a Ranger a better soloer than a Druid. Bards stand alone because they are their own class with completely unique mechanics. A paladin has better uptime than a warrior but is it worth 50% experience? Probably not.

[douglas1999]

So much attention on enchanters when a mostly solo cleric was 30 min from first 50. Nerf clerics, I don't remember them soloing on classic.

"Soloing" for xp isn't the same as "soloing" a boss mob intended for an entire group or even an entire raid.

[Cuktus]

"Soloing" for xp isn't the same as "soloing" a boss mob intended for an entire group or even an entire raid.

Don't we already have a 60 page thread for this without hijacking others?