Jboots camp isn't classic

[zillabunny]

I camped the Jboots on Tribual back before they were moved to the AC. this was when they announced they were removing them, I was 6th on the list, we had 2 ninja looters skip the line and i still got them in about 9 hours... my buddy was 7th on the list right after me, he had fallen asleep about an hour and a half before I got mine but I stuck around cause i was high as a kite after getting them screaming "HOT BLOODED CATCH IT AND SEE I GOT A FEVER OF 103" (drenz casts heat blood) Drenz spanwed dropped the boots and I called his house and his mom answered and i was like YO WAKE RYAN UP, (it was like 4:30 AM and we had school the next day) she was super pissed but woke him and he got the boots...

i was talking to the guy who's number 1 on the list on teal and he said he's been there 8+ hours and if you go AFK for more than 12 minutes you lose your spot in line I dunjno if the /list thing is a good or bad thing but clearly the drop rate and not being able to AFK for more than 12 minutes is NOT classic at all.

[jacob54311]

Wow. Your parents were pretty chill. If I had a buddy call my house at 4:30 AM on a weekday there would've been hell to pay!

[zillabunny]

Wow. Your parents were pretty chill. If I had a buddy call my house at 4:30 AM on a weekday there would've been hell to pay!

oh his parents didn't like me for a long time infact i think she mentioned it to me at his wedding lol

[Swish]

It all comes down to how much you want it.

[Graventhel]

The afk checks are necessary to remove people who would fall asleep, miss the drop, and therefore waste it.

There was no list system in classic, so this was not necessary. The list system is necessary now due to the terribleness of human nature.

[Shiva]

A great fix would be to turn PVP on in every zone with these camps. Let everyone sort it out as true Elves, Trolls, and Hobbits would.

It will make for a more immersive and exciting experience and will be much healthier for the player's health than a marathon 12-hour session with no AFK breaks. smh

[zillabunny]

Everyone says turn on PVP but still doesn't account for someone not getting an item that should spawn 33% of the time in 8+ hours

[Nirgon]

20 hours 19 minutes

I have dragon blood in my veins

[zillabunny]

I get it if you wanna flex how long you sat at the camp but it's not even close to classic at this drop rate.

[Malikail]

I get it if you wanna flex how long you sat at the camp but it's not even close to classic at this drop rate.

That's 100% true and I've given this a bit of thought. It's probably good that the drop rates are low given the number of players on the server and that everybody knows what these items are and when they'll be taken out of the game. If the drop rate was as high as it wasn't original EQ, things like Mana Stones would hold all the value of 1990's comics in the future. Which is to say zero

[shuklak]

Why are 90s comics so worthless?

[jacob54311]

Why are 90s comics so worthless?

I don't know.

My local comic store owner said they'd be collectors' items!

[zodium]

legacy items should drop 6 at a time

[Mblake81]

That's 100% true and I've given this a bit of thought. It's probably good that the drop rates are low given the number of players on the server and that everybody knows what these items are and when they'll be taken out of the game. If the drop rate was as high as it wasn't original EQ, things like Mana Stones would hold all the value of 1990's comics in the future. Which is to say zero

Why are 90s comics so worthless?

I don't know.

My local comic store owner said they'd be collectors' items!

The nineties are a decade that receives a lot of flack among comic book collectors. (https://comicbooked.com/revisiting-90s-speculative-boom-nearly-ended-comic-book-industry/) A lot of complaints justified. The nineties were a period of industry upheaval. Between 1990 and 1993 no less then 24 new comic book publishers were flooding the market with hundreds of titles and by 1996 all but a handful shuttered their doors. Quality control went out the window in favor of quantity in an attempt to capitalize on a classic bubble market that emerged. Marvel nearly went bankrupt. Both Marvel and DC were killing off legacy characters and replacing them with new and more “EXTREME” versions. Guy Gardner: Warrior anyone? It was an era when comic book companies realized that art moved more books then narrative and the quality of many stories suffered accordingly.

The cumulative impact of all of these factors have created a lingering sense that this was a decade when comic book publishers were blinded by financial greed and then self-inflicted distress by a saturated market place. The siren call of Hollywood was beckoning as well. The Batman movie franchise, which blew the doors off what a cape shit movie could be, was just beginning in 1992. Jeff Loeb – a television writer – was brought into DC Comics and given one of the two keys to the kingdom when tasked to write Batman, much to the chagrin of life long employees who had been putting in their time and working up the comic companies archaic creative ladders. Marvel was selling its movie production rights to properties such as Spiderman, the X-Men, and Fantastic Four among others just to keep the lights on.

In reality the comic book industry was responding to changing market conditions brought on by a flurry of unprecedented speculation. The comic collecting craze of the early nineties was a text book case of bubble economics. It came crashing into an industry that was unprepared for it but recognized that it was time to make hay while the sun was shining. Millions of people suddenly started entering comic books shops in the early 1990’s and just as quickly stopped. The years between 1992 and 1996 saw sales reach unimaginable sums, print runs from all companies combined reached into the millions to satisfy consumer demand, and the publishing houses tried to pump every dollar they could out of it with foil and die cut collector’s issues.

TL/DR: Some comics became valuable, like the early ones due to circumstances such as world war 2. Some guys tried to create their own "collectable" market by pumping money into it forming a bubble. It resulted in a failure.

“In 1974 you could buy an average copy of Action Comics #1—the first appearance of Superman—for about $400. By 1984, that comic cost about $5,000. This was real money, and by the end of the decade, comics sales at auction houses such as Christie’s or Sotheby’s were so impressive that the New York Times would take note when, for instance, Detective Comics #27—the first appearance of Batman—sold for a record-breaking $55,000 in December 1991. The Times was there again a few months later, when a copy of Action Comics #1 shattered that record, selling for $82,500.”

People want manastones on Green/Teal because they were so valuable on the decade old Blue. During a time when P99 was far less populated and a small number of stones were kept around. New players seeing this, wishing they were there and had got a few to do big platinum trades, look to this as a chance to get it. The hope that the servers will merge into the wasteland that is blue instead of being deleted at the end.

[jacob54311]

legacy items should drop 6 at a time

Every time!

[lordpazuzu]

A great fix would be to turn PVP on in every zone with these camps. Let everyone sort it out as true Elves, Trolls, and Hobbits would.



Someone always suggests this.


And it's always dumb.

[Cuktus]

A great fix would be to turn PVP on in every zone with these camps. Let everyone sort it out as true Elves, Trolls, and Hobbits would.

It will make for a more immersive and exciting experience and will be much healthier for the player's health than a marathon 12-hour session with no AFK breaks. smh

We have a pvp server. Feel free to join the tens of players who agree with you.

[zillabunny]

Again this has nothing to do with mana stone, I never camped mana stone and don't know the details but I did camp the jboots in classic and know they dropped pretty often...

Also I dunno why you're discussing 90's comics this makes no sense, this is a game that is supposed to be fun, not some speculative market where things have actual value.

[Mblake81]

Again this has nothing to do with mana stone, I never camped mana stone and don't know the details but I did camp the jboots in classic and know they dropped pretty often...

Also I dunno why you're discussing 90's comics this makes no sense, this is a game that is supposed to be fun, not some speculative market where things have actual value.

Fair enough, it's your thread.

[loramin]

Again this has nothing to do with mana stone, I never camped mana stone and don't know the details but I did camp the jboots in classic and know they dropped pretty often...

Also I dunno why you're discussing 90's comics this makes no sense, this is a game that is supposed to be fun, not some speculative market where things have actual value.

I actually really loved MBlake's post: he seemed to go off on a tangent ... and according to this forum's culture it'd be perfectly ok if that was it; this place loves tangents.

But he did something unusual and clever and actually tied the tangent back to the main thread (and I completely disagree with you: obviously comics and mana orbs aren't the same, but they are both speculatively traded items and the comparison was relevant).

But Zila, back to the original topic OF COURSE it's not classic. In classic times like X% of the server knew about JBoots. Here X * 500% (I'm good at math) know about it.

But mechanically, /list is pretty damn close to how GMs would have handled it back then IF that many people did know and fight over JBoots ... well, modulo the "never sleeping GM" it represents (which is why I started that other thread about how /list shouldn't let people queue up past a certain point, and should require rolls after that ... because according to the GM guidelines (http://wiki.project1999.com/Kunark_Era_Customer_Service_Guidelines), that's essentially how the Verant staff would have handled it ... and Verant GMs slept ;)).

[Puluin]

From my vague memory I do not recall manastone or j boots being a highly sought item until AFTER they removed the drops and changed j boots to quest.

These items dropped so frequently they were considered common items that took only a kill or two to see a drop from starting camp.

It wasn't until after they stopped dropping that people started coveting them.

In the beginning they were such common drops no one had the mind set of "oh, I HAVE to get that item NOW before it disappears."

I remember full 6 member groups getting jboots for everyone in one evening session.

Quite similar to how frequently dire wolf hide cloak drops off the guy in kael (coffee/memory fail).

[zillabunny]

Regardless of if their highly sought after or not, they're a fun item, that shouldn't be an ultra rare drop. there is no negative impact if more people have them, the server is more fun if they're at the normal drop rate.

[Danth]

I recall warning people about low drop rates on the legacy items back in August/September and I was largely brushed off. Maybe us folks who were around in 2009 know a thing or two, eh?

Danth

[zillabunny]

If they have a reason behind lowering the drop rates I'd love to hear it, I'm just saying it's not really classic to have to camp the jboots for this long a group could typically fill up in a night of fun gaming ...

Hell I'm even ok with the afk checks and everything else I just think the drop rate should be normal.

[Tiger_King]

Looks like all items that were placed on /list all had drop rates nerfed into the ground for personal admin/GM/server host reasons rather than adhering to classic drop rates. This is likely to try and induce the “rarity” belief rather than the realistic understanding...

Yes these items may have been viewed for some time during classic eras as “rare” but not due to actual drop rates but rather due to lack of the player/overall community knowledge.

So it looks like the server hosts would rather make a false look alike game rather than uphold the real drop rates and mechanisms of the drop as they were in classic. Very simple.

The unfortunate truth here is that ALL items will be more prevalent than classic because of the wide prevalence of knowledge about the game. So by the admins skewing the 4 list item drop rates was and remains stupid practice and was unrealistic to have done in the first place.

[jacob54311]

The unfortunate truth here is that ALL items will be more prevalent than classic because of the wide prevalence of knowledge about the game. So by the admins skewing the 4 list item drop rates was and remains stupid practice and was unrealistic to have done in the first place.

I don't think insulting the devs is cool. They do this for nothing. Show some gratitude.

[Tiger_King]

I’m not trying to be insulting. I’m trying to show the bias that has been put into place on purpose here. Seeing as how there are many testimonies alleging significantly higher drop rates along with proof drop rates became nerfed much later on for items (i.e manastone) in actual patch notes recovered. what was done here was purposeful and unrealistic and is now causing people potential health hazards.

We can decry the problem over and over all we want but until something is done to at least show some basic concern towards the community’s realistic understanding (the drop rates were significantly higher in the past and list systems are being severely abused by account sharing) vs reality (people might actually die trying to solo camp these items) is a major thing that should be addressed PERIOD.

Literally who in the community would care if manastone Value held at 800k plat anymore if someone died in the process of keeping its price tag artificially high in a fantasy game?

[bwe]

probably lots of people here because of p99 player brain problems

[bubur]

Post the patch notes in the bug section. There's devs who respond there daily

None of these "not classic" mega threads in the green/teal section have been going anywhere. It doesn't matter how many bold words you use or how long your essay is. A few supporting links and a sentence or two are all you need to see changes happen

[NegaStoat]

I’m not trying to be insulting. I’m trying to show the bias that has been put into place on purpose here. Seeing as how there are many testimonies alleging significantly higher drop rates along with proof drop rates became nerfed much later on for items (i.e manastone) in actual patch notes recovered. what was done here was purposeful and unrealistic and is now causing people potential health hazards.

The smarter players figured out long ago that Green was intentionally flawed out of the gate with selectively keeping things that were classic if it was against players and changing the things that would have been a positive. Fish rolls, fletching, necro / enchanter pet weapon speeds, etc. That's on top of the crap ambient lighting wrecking the game for raiding or just general visual appearance.

Accept what the game is or walk. Feedback isn't being accepted by the staff.

[unleashedd]

too many jboots = dru, rng, shm no longer needed for sow. its literaly like adding POK portal stones

[Videri]

too many jboots = dru, rng, shm no longer needed for sow. its literaly like adding POK portal stones

Hm, has this happened on Blue?

[Tiger_King]

Reports about the drop rates on /list items were already curated long ago.

Also I’ve already walked away from the game after visiting the /list camps for 3 days and hearing from ppl on #1/2 slots attesting to 10+ sometimes 19+ hr camps for the alleged 1st or 2nd most common drop rates of the 4 /list items.

I’m literally only posting because of a legitimate concern over other human beings health risks here.

Might you be asking for me to apologize for that next too?

[bubur]

then bump the posts with more appropriate evidence

If they're locked then make new ones because that means they're older than green

[Swish]

The unfortunate truth here is that ALL items will be more prevalent than classic because of the wide prevalence of knowledge about the game.

No server community/developer can fix that, but people trying to get easier access to rare pixels through forumquesting isn't going to work either.

The game is meant to be hard and is meant to exclude the majority of the player base. Either do what it takes or sit down and find another way.

If you can't get a manastone today, can you save plat for a sold manastone in 6 months time? Or a year? One thing is for sure, the camp won't dry out so there'll be the maximum possible of manastones from green/teal between now and D-Day when they no longer drop.

[Tiger_King]

Sorry swish. I must have misunderstood that 15 ppl insta “killing” some pixles popping as mega hard mode which made me stop playing as opposed to realistic health concerns one might face from long term list Position lock...

You are perfectly correct here to assume that people should put in more time and effort on pixels while losing their minds to /list camps vs having fun with the community and their friends.

I’m sorry for being sour but your response is exactly the type of personality and reason people put their health onto the sidelines in risk for pixels. You are actively encouraging terrible behavior and practices while simultaneously stating you want to keep an artificial inflated value behind the over glorified pixels.

( Also I’m Going to go out on a hunch here but it’s likely you already have a manastone/Rubicite or some other era item and have imaginary plat to lose if these item(s) becomes more common within the community). Sounds an awful lot like Greed to me, which coincidentally coincides with a deadly sin.

[redhorse]

20 hours 19 minutes

I have dragon blood in my veins

Thank you for the corroboration Nirgon! OP's point hits the nail right on the head, and is exactly correct.

[Nirgon]

Class best of the best was determined via PVP

Brad made several pvp servers

Guildwar was a classic feature and I hope we get it

Call it stupid all you want


too many jboots = dru, rng, shm no longer needed for sow. its literaly like adding POK portal stones

SoW is faster

[redhorse]

Class best of the best was determined via PVP

Brad made several pvp servers

Guildwar was a classic feature and I hope we get it

Call it stupid all you want

SoW is faster

Wha... what?

[bubur]

they wont make the blue servers pvp. they may open a new pvp server someday. they already split the green server to alleviate list issues. post evidence of drop rates

/thread? ya rite. onward to 50 pages

[aspomwell]

From my vague memory I do not recall manastone or j boots being a highly sought item until AFTER they removed the drops and changed j boots to quest.

These items dropped so frequently they were considered common items that took only a kill or two to see a drop from starting camp.

It wasn't until after they stopped dropping that people started coveting them.

In the beginning they were such common drops no one had the mind set of "oh, I HAVE to get that item NOW before it disappears."

I remember full 6 member groups getting jboots for everyone in one evening session.

Quite similar to how frequently dire wolf hide cloak drops off the guy in kael (coffee/memory fail).

Not my recollection. If you checked out any of the forums (and I assume you did back then, as you are here now) then it was widely known that Drelzna was dropping a note instead of the jboots on test and that things on test flowed through to live.

This caused a flood of people (me included) to head to Najena and camp them. I got mine about a week before they removed them in game. I was 6th in 'line' when I arrived and it took 13 hours for me to get mine. (edit: this was on Tunare)

I never cared for manastone (necro, so pretty good mana regen, could have used one I guess) or guise (already a dark elf) but the jboots and COS were my epic items. My family commitments keep me from spending more than 2 hours online now so even on green I'd never get them so I'm content dicking around on blue!

[Meiva]

My wait was 19 hours, and I started list at #3. The poor bloke next in line waited 20 hours AT #1!!! Not including the time he waited in other positions lol.

No idea if shits classic, but it's pretty brutal.

[Erati]

My wait was 19 hours, and I started list at #3. The poor bloke next in line waited 20 hours AT #1!!! Not including the time he waited in other positions lol.

No idea if shits classic, but it's pretty brutal.

holy crap 20 hours for no boot drops? How many empty Drel's? yikes.

[PointMade]

From: 7/6/99 (Source (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.games.everquest/oL77Bb0q_6o/0Nv1YLkz-zYJ))

Title: A RANT on JBoots and Camping in general (VERY LONG)

. . . .

You know what the problem is Brad? Journeyman boots are an _ESSENTIAL ITEM_ for
every class but Shamans, Druids, and Rangers, and they're pretty damn useful
even for them.

The Drelzna spot has a chance to spawn every twenty minutes or so. Drelzna
generally pops up about three out of five times. No problem, right?

Drelzna drops MAYBE three to four Journeyman boots per day. Now THAT is a
problem.

In your infinite wisdom, for the love of Tunare, PLEASE explain to me why a _NO
DROP_ item like JBoots that is _absolutely essential_ for almost every class
should be so ridiculously rare. Actually, please explain why ANY "no drop" item
should be THAT rare. It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to "farm" Journeyman Boots,
since they're no drop. It just can't be done. It takes a group of 25's to take
Drelzna and there are about 100 monsters on the way to her, so it's
ridiculously difficult to twink a low-level character with JBoots.

Do you have ANY idea how upset people get in Najena? People /shout curses every
time Drelzna spawns with another earring of disease reflection on her.
Killstealing is RIDICULOUS in Najena... I've seen upwards of fifty people
packed into Drelzna's little room, three entire guilds, just to see who can
nuke her the quickest.

As a melee character, I've taken my lvl 35 Ranger into Najena and camped
literally from nine o'clock at night to SEVEN IN THE MORNING for boots. Most of
the time, a lvl 25 Wizard pops up with his weak little group (who could just
barely handle her and her cadre of necromancers), nukes her, and gets the kill.
And of course there's nothing I can do except leave.

Tempers flare, enemies are made, roleplaying is abandoned, FUN is abandoned.
I've never seen people so... so.... NASTY as they are in Najena. Rubicite
doesn't even compare.

Now, lets go back to the "problem" that you guys are thinking so hard on...
high level characters camping low level monsters. Let me ask you a question. Do
you honestly believe that I'd be in Najena killing greens camping the Flowing
Black Robe at level thirty-five if I could possibly avoid it? Holy CHRIST I
hate Najena! When I finally left, I had camped there for twenty hours straight
and I could barely see clearly through the blood in my eyes, I was so pissed
off. You have NO idea.

Tell me Brad, with your character that you play in the game, are you around
level 25 yet? If not, when you get there, what will you do? I know you play a
Ranger, but let's say you're a Warrior or a Rogue... will you give up on
Journeyman boots or will you waste a week of your life for one essential item?
Will you just give up on an essential item for your class or will you depend on
shamans and druids for SoW for the rest of your character's life? I really want
to know. Don't answer as the game designer, answer as a player.

Camping IS a huge problem. Fifteen levels ago I wouldn't have believed it, but
as a Ranger I _require_ a full set of Rubicite armor... because there ain't no
decent chain in the game and I can't tank without it.

Speaking of Rubicite, it has the exact same problem to a much lesser extent.
You see, at the levels where you need rubicite, the monsters are mostly blue...
so you're gaining experience and actually (gasp!) having fun. Still, I've been
in TR2 (the upper throne room in Cazic-Thule) for over sixteen hours at a
stretch with nary a sign of a rubicite helm. I know, I know, as a Ranger I
could also get a Crested Helm from castle mistmoore (which is better anyway),
and I _have_ tried for one, but apparently they're even MORE rare... nothing
like JBoots, but pretty damn rare.

. . .