Bronze Armor Weight

[ajdes]

So I've got my troll sk in a set of bronze and im looking pretty fly, but I'm kind of wondering if the weight is worth it. Even on a burly troll I get encumbered very quickly when I go out solo hunting (and I'm very poor so I need to save all that stuff). Seems like the drop in AGI is probably hurting me more than boost in AC?

Is bronze amor all about fashionquest? It seems like on some pieces you could switch to banded (or even something with stats) and you would only loose 1-2 ac but cut weight by half. For example Large Bronze Vambs weights 10.1 for 8ac, where as Large Banded weights 4.4 for 7ac.

If I'm not fanshionquesting, is the AC worth the weight?

[Danth]

Because of how level scaling AC caps work out, during the period where banded is below cap but Bronze is not the bronze will offer some improvement in effectiveness versus banded. It's a nice idea to ask a Shaman or Magician to make some weight-reduction bags when you log on. That being said it's possible to get by with banded/random pieces if you feel you need to. Don't feel like you must wear the bronze if it's seriously impacting your enjoyment of the character. A character that maybe takes a little additional damage for a period during the middle levels is preferable over one you quit playing because you don't have fun on it.

Danth

[Jimjam]

It depends on the level you are and the level of the mobs you are fighting.

[ajdes]

Because of how level scaling AC caps work out, during the period where banded is below cap but Bronze is not the bronze will offer some improvement in effectiveness versus banded.

It depends on the level you are and the level of the mobs you are fighting.


Can you please link to an explanation of these mechanics? I knew about soft ac caps by class but how level affects AC on bronze vs banded is new to me.

[Danth]

Can you please link to an explanation of these mechanics? I knew about soft ac caps by class but how level affects AC on bronze vs banded is new to me.

No, we can't. AC caps scale with levels, this much we know. We know they're present on P1999 because the developers have said so (assuming they're truthful--a fair assumption for this sort of discussion), but they don't tell us the specifics and nobody's done full-scale testing through the entire level range. Best you can do is fight for awhile wearing the bronze, fight for awhile wearing the banded, and decide for yourself if any observed difference is enough for you to care about.

Because P1999 is a custom host, data from EQ-live is useless. Such data can show us how things should ideally behave, but not necessarily how things DO behave on P1999. In some cases alterations are deliberate, for example shields on P1999 are reported to have the post-classic shield overcap bonus.

Danth

[ajdes]

during the period where banded is below cap but Bronze is not the bronze will offer some improvement in effectiveness versus banded

so are you suggesting that the caps for types of armor are different? I.e. Bronze has a higher AC cap than Banded? So it is not sufficient to simply compare AC?

[Danth]

so are you suggesting that the caps for types of armor are different? I.e. Bronze has a higher AC cap than Banded? So it is not sufficient to simply compare AC?

No, I don't mean that. The bronze armor has higher AC than the banded so there's a level range where the bronze can keep you close to the cap while the banded can't. At very low levels either of them will keep a player at or over cap hence the bronze would be of minimal use at such levels. Even where the bronze is at its best relative to banded, the effect is not dramatic and it's long been a matter for debate as to whether the benefit is worth the added weight.

[ajdes]

No, I don't mean that. The bronze armor has higher AC than the banded so there's a level range where the bronze can keep you close to the cap while the banded can't. At very low levels either of them will keep a player at or over cap hence the bronze would be of minimal use at such levels.

Ah that makes sense.

Do you know how AGI factors into this? I.e. if im encumbered and thus have lowered AGI am I going to be negating the benefit of the armor's AC?

[Jimjam]

Reduced ac lowers your mitigation. Reduced agility will lower your avoidance, but the effect is not pronounced until you are below 75 agi (and i think again at below 50).

[Danth]

Ah that makes sense.

Do you know how AGI factors into this? I.e. if im encumbered and thus have lowered AGI am I going to be negating the benefit of the armor's AC?

Again, not for certain due to lack of testing. In theory agility should be avoidance AC (as opposed to mitigation AC like from your worn armor). Being encumbered shouldn't affect your average DI roll, but rather it should cause monsters to miss you less often in the first place. If the system works as expected then losing avoidance AC should hurt you more than gaining the same amount of mitigation AC, meaning if the bronze armor is causing you to be permanently encumbered than it's almost assuredly not worth wearing. I stress that this is only a case of "should." Testing would be required to confirm (or refute) these comments.

As jimjam says, the effect from agility only becomes serious once you start dropping below 75. If you're dropping from something like 83 to 80 it shouldn't be a big deal.

Danth

[Cen]

Im trying to do a hybrid visible bronze banded off pieces for an inbetween weight/AC but a maximum style.

[Cen]

No, I don't mean that. The bronze armor has higher AC than the banded so there's a level range where the bronze can keep you close to the cap while the banded can't. At very low levels either of them will keep a player at or over cap hence the bronze would be of minimal use at such levels. Even where the bronze is at its best relative to banded, the effect is not dramatic and it's long been a matter for debate as to whether the benefit is worth the added weight.

When would that be for a Warrior? and how do I find that out? Not on game mechanics wiki. I thought warriors had a solid 300 AC softcap, with 40% past that per item minus shields which are 100% always.

[Grimstrike]

Visible small bronze with one bracer is 234 AC and my paladin is at 75 raw AGI. That totals to 42.7 weight and my dwarf has 110 raw STR. Not sure if this matters, but my dwarf paladin is lvl 9. I get more AC with a shield equipped and the other non-visible armor pieces to get me up near 290ish AC total.

Currently, with some bags and loot on me, I am at 92/112 weight. I would say that non-visible armor banded is fine until you get some good stat gear.

[BlackBellamy]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48312