Hybrid Exp Penalty Affects The Entire Group

[Baler]

The 40% Exp Penalty that is placed on hybrids.
(Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%)
Affects how much exp everyone in the group gets.

Hybrids get the first cut of exp and what's left over goes to everyone else in the group.
Meaning you get a significantly smaller amount of exp per kill when grouped with a hybrid.

Don't group with hybrids till Jan 2001 Velious patch.

[zodium]

voted 1

[jacob54311]

Trolling or...?

[Evets]

Never did get why it was this way... hybrids aren't even that powerful.

[tinklepee]

I only group with hybrids for sexual favors

[zaneosak]

Hybrid don't take the first cut. It's all relative to level of each other in the group and what class race everybody is. If the hybrid is lower level than you, it won't be as noticeable. As someone who has been duoing with a bard and using an xp calculator..... Usually having him instead of a non hybrid adds 10 to 20 kills more per level. Usually resulting in an extra 25 to 60 mins of play time. In a full group setting this could delay you an hour or so but it's not enough to alienate people or wait for a tank that isn't a hybrid.

If you're alienating hybrids for this reason you should also be banning people higher than 1 level above you for the same reason or else you are either a hypocrite or an idiot or both.

[uygi]

Hybrids get a bigger cut of the XP, just like higher levels do. INT casters have 1/4 the penalty as hybrids, don’t group with them either. All shaman races have penalties, don’t group with shamans obv. Some zones don’t have max ZEMs, don’t XP in those zones.

Obviously the only appropriate group is all halfling rogues and warriors, they have bonuses so they’re the only group that gains XP til Jan 2001 patch.

Hell, there’s no serverwide XP bonus right now. Don’t XP until there is one!

[uygi]

Hybrid don't take the first cut. It's all relative to level of each other in the group and what class race everybody is. If the hybrid is lower level than you, it won't be as noticeable. As someone who has been duoing with a bard and using an xp calculator..... Usually having him instead of a non hybrid adds 10 to 20 kills more per level. Usually resulting in an extra 25 to 60 mins of play time. In a full group setting this could delay you an hour or so but it's not enough to alienate people or wait for a tank that isn't a hybrid.

If you're alienating hybrids for this reason you should also be banning people higher than 1 level above you for the same reason or else you are either a hypocrite or an idiot or both.

It’s pretty simple, the penalty is a multiplier for the XP required for the toon; A human paladin requires 1.4x the total XP to advance as compared to a human cleric. A separate calculation is how much of the groups XP/kill each toon gets, which is just (individual’s lifetime XP sum)/(whole group’s lifetime XP sum).

It’s a total myth that a hybrid being in the group reduces XP awarded, but the hybrid does take a larger cut than a non-hybrid. A full group with a hybrid levels only slightly slower (per kill). If somebody is advocating a warrior or monk tank over hybrid, that inefficiency is going to be a bigger hit to XP than a hybrid penalty (with current gear certainly, arguable in Kunark).

[Baler]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. Just wanted to start a topic of discussion about the hybrid penalty. I shared my feelings on it, as have others. The extreme responses are expected I suppose but they don't fix the hybrid penalty. Let's try to keep this civil, please.

[zodium]

you can fix the hybrid penalty by not caring how fast your exp bar fills up

[zaneosak]

It’s pretty simple, the penalty is a multiplier for the XP required for the toon; A human paladin requires 1.4x the total XP to advance as compared to a human cleric. A separate calculation is how much of the groups XP/kill each toon gets, which is just (individual’s lifetime XP sum)/(whole group’s lifetime XP sum).

I know how it works. I've studied it a lot. I'm just saying. If you don't want a human paladin because of exp than you should also ignore a human warrior that is 2 or 3 levels your senior. Because he will also take a substantial amount of your xp away because he gets a very large cut to compensate for his larger xp pool. So your post needs to say don't group with hybrids or people more than 2 levels above you.

Edit: thought you were the op. But my point still stands.

[uygi]

I figured this was either satire or general whining. OP is misleading at best.

I think most everyone agrees that hybrid XP penalties don’t make the game better and that hybrids aren’t especially more powerful than other characters. Even if they were OP, making them level slower is obviously a lousy way to balance that because they remain OP and just spend more time XPing.

[Tilien]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. Just wanted to start a topic of discussion about the hybrid penalty. I shared my feelings on it, as have others. The extreme responses are expected I suppose but they don't fix the hybrid penalty. Let's try to keep this civil, please.

People just got hyped for a server with the same limitations, exploits and quirks as original release eq (or as close as has been implemented ever). If you want less xp penalties, more content, and easier gear you're welcome to go to blue, green is for classic experience which has many difficulties. (Cue blue hate).

[Octopath]

Why did they unban you

[SenoraRaton]

Too bad warriors are trash in classic, and if you want a tank, you have to have a hybrid.

[Warioc]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. Just wanted to start a topic of discussion about the hybrid penalty. I shared my feelings on it, as have others. The extreme responses are expected I suppose but they don't fix the hybrid penalty. Let's try to keep this civil, please.

No, your original post is pretty close to the model troll post.

[Siege]

Too bad warriors are trash in classic, and if you want a tank, you have to have a hybrid.

To take it one step further, it can be said that all tanks and melee classes are trash in classic because a group full of pet classes will outshine a perfectly balanced group where every role is filled by the proper class while leveling.

In practice, most people don't care who they group with as long as they aren't dying and the XP is steady. So far I've only come across one person who bitched about a hybrid being in his group group on Green because he thought that one of us was a paladin even though none of us were playing a race capable of being a paladin and most of us were casters. He was a dipshit, in other words.

[Kerwin 5.0]

Why did they unban you

Agree. This post reeks of hybrid hater.

[Baler]

Hybrids are great and bring a lot of utility to the group. They also have fantastic snap agro to tank more efficiently.

Rangers are the defacto best trackers. People will be leveling them to place in fear. Fear is the next big raid content.

Shadow Knights can feign death which makes them valuable taggers and trash mob tanks.

Paladin lay on hands can save them from death and potentially the rest of the group too. Flash of light is a cheap agro spell.

Bards sing songs for people to clap their hands.

nope, I don't hate hybrids. I do hate the exp penalty. Let's all take a deep breath and try to stay on topic please.
Your feelings about me or my posts have nothing to do with the hybrid exp penalty affecting the whole group.

[cd288]

Hybrid don't take the first cut. It's all relative to level of each other in the group and what class race everybody is. If the hybrid is lower level than you, it won't be as noticeable. As someone who has been duoing with a bard and using an xp calculator..... Usually having him instead of a non hybrid adds 10 to 20 kills more per level. Usually resulting in an extra 25 to 60 mins of play time. In a full group setting this could delay you an hour or so but it's not enough to alienate people or wait for a tank that isn't a hybrid.

If you're alienating hybrids for this reason you should also be banning people higher than 1 level above you for the same reason or else you are either a hypocrite or an idiot or both.

You’re kind of greatly downplaying the affect in a full group. Depending on level, the mobs aren’t giving a ton of EXP per kill in the first place. Split between a full group plus hybrid penalty that can at times add a lot more than an extra hour per level. It gets better as you get bigger in level because the mobs are worth more EXP

[Siege]

Hybrids are great and bring a lot of utility to the group. They also have fantastic snap agro to tank more efficiently.

Rangers are the defacto best trackers. People will be leveling them to place in fear. Fear is the next big raid content.

Shadow Knights can feign death which makes them valuable taggers and trash mob tanks.

Paladin lay on hands can save them from death and potentially the rest of the group too. Flash of light is a cheap agro spell.

Bards sing songs for people to clap their hands.

nope, I don't hate hybrids. I do hate the exp penalty. Let's all take a deep breath and try to stay on topic please.
Your feelings about me or my posts have nothing to do with the hybrid exp penalty affecting the whole group.

There are a lot of dogshit mechanics that I don't want to see on Green, but the devs want it to be as close to Classic as possible.

Personally, I dream of a P99 server with custom changes that enhance the Classic experience, like a permanent nerf to bard swarming and a buff to Warrior aggro that makes them the tanks they should be. The devs appear to be reluctant to do this kind of thing on Green/Teal, but hopefully they'll do something like this somewhere down the line.

[Tooned]

Don't group with hybrids till Jan 2001 Velious patch.

I've been playing Bard on eqlive for a long time, but I'm brand new to p99 and just hit level 25 on green.

So you're saying I should just quit?

[SamwiseRed]

When hybrids ask if there's room in group I always says we are full even if I'm solo.

Sorry but seats taken.

[Kirrund]

There are a lot of dogshit mechanics that I don't want to see on Green, but the devs want it to be as close to Classic as possible.

Personally, I dream of a P99 server with custom changes that enhance the Classic experience, like a permanent nerf to bard swarming and a buff to Warrior aggro that makes them the tanks they should be. The devs appear to be reluctant to do this kind of thing on Green/Teal, but hopefully they'll do something like this somewhere down the line.

Except they already nerfed bard swarming

[Vizax_Xaziv]

There are a lot of dogshit mechanics that I don't want to see on Green, but the devs want it to be as close to Classic as possible.

Personally, I dream of a P99 server with custom changes that enhance the Classic experience, like a permanent nerf to bard swarming and a buff to Warrior aggro that makes them the tanks they should be. The devs appear to be reluctant to do this kind of thing on Green/Teal, but hopefully they'll do something like this somewhere down the line.

Essentially some compromise between the DayBreak TLP servers and the P99 servers would be a fantastic experience (IMO)

And I'm enjoying Green (have a 21 Monk and 19 Shammy) but I definitely noticed the slowdown when I had two hybrids in my group last night for example. That's the less tangible tradeoff though: the Bard was pulling and his regen song undoubtedly reduced our downtime by a large margin, and the SK tanking w/ Disease Cloud ensured that I was able to slow every mob immediately on pull (further reducing our downtime via saving the main healer mana).

Was that reduction in downtime significant enough to offset the reduced XP gain they incurred? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That would require a rather large amount of testing to find out for certain.

[Siege]

Except they already nerfed bard swarming

Are you talking about the 25-mob limit on Blue or the 4-mob limit on Green/Teal? The former is a much less severe nerf than I'd like to see, and the latter will be lifted 6 months into the life of Green/Teal if it follows the Classic timeline.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Are you talking about the 25-mob limit on Blue or the 4-mob limit on Green/Teal? The former is a much less severe nerf than I'd like to see, and the latter will be lifted 6 months into the life of Green/Teal if it follows the Classic timeline.
Is your concern zone disruption? Cuz once the 4mob limit is removed I'll be rolling a Bard. The ability to swarm makes Bard the only Hybrid I would even CONSIDER levelling due to penalty

[Nizilfkm]

The 40% Exp Penalty that is placed on hybrids.
(Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%)
Affects how much exp everyone in the group gets.

Hybrids get the first cut of exp and what's left over goes to everyone else in the group.
Meaning you get a significantly smaller amount of exp per kill when grouped with a hybrid.

Don't group with hybrids till Jan 2001 Velious patch.

That's not how the math works at all. Besides being just a stupid statement. I suggest less posting and take advantage of that extra time to reread an old post on the subject

[Brut]

Only thing that bothers me about this thread is that I can't find OP's character name to make sure to remember this if I'd see him LFG or asking for help with anything.

[Danth]

And I'm enjoying Green (have a 21 Monk and 19 Shammy) but I definitely noticed the slowdown when I had two hybrids in my group last night for example. That's the less tangible tradeoff though: the Bard was pulling and his regen song undoubtedly reduced our downtime by a large margin, and the SK tanking w/ Disease Cloud ensured that I was able to slow every mob immediately on pull (further reducing our downtime via saving the main healer mana).

Note that your Monk also carries a 20% experience penalty, and the Shaman inevitably has some modest penalty due to race (all Shaman races have a penalty).

-----------------------------------

(at no-one in particular) For the past ten years on P1999 I've noticed two tendencies in these discussions about class experience penalties: First, folks seem to forget that level plays a part too, and second those same folks also tend to forget that many classes have experience penalties, not just the hybrid classes. It reached peak absurdity when P1999 was in Kunark and just about no-one ever cared about Iksar Monk's 44% penalty even though it's greater than a stock Paladin/Ranger penalty. I anticipate more of the same on P1999-Green/Teal.

Danth

[zodium]

Only thing that bothers me about this thread is that I can't find OP's character name to make sure to remember this if I'd see him LFG or asking for help with anything.

it's Baler

[Axlrose]

Back on Live, my stance was basically, "A body is a body!" when it came to accepting people into the group. Granted, everything was not broken down to exact math with all the formulas known as it is today; so it was much more fun having oddball groups of classes that worked together for the common goal. Without sounding sappy, I felt that there was a real person behind that character that wanted to play, so why not let him or her enjoy our company?

Back then, everybody participated in the group - even the casters would cast lower level spells to control the aggro instead of feeling the need to drop their ultimate thermonuclear bomb onto a nearly dead target. And if a player wanted to do something out of the ordinary and the group was able to handle it, then why not go off the beaten path? That is, if a cloth caster decided he or she wanted to take out their dagger to stab at a mob instead of dropping magic and the group was ripping through these mobs fast enough, hey - why not? "Oh noes! Our efficiency!" - so what, we're all here to have fun. It seemed players that complained about this were the worse asinine players around; and perhaps the beginning of the whole ideal group make up crap that eventually passed through the game.

So when it came to penalties - who cares? The memories of a good group finally breaking up with a plea from a player needing one or two more kills to make level and they were a hybrid - keep pulling ...

... sleep was overrated back then too! ;)

[Zal22]

Why did they unban you

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I dont get the fuss tbh. I made an Oasis group with 2 SK's (Ogre and Troll) and a human monk and the XP wasnt terrible. Maybe not optimal but deffo not as bad as this thread makes out.

Maybe because we were having fun, i dunno. But the XP was noticable and i saw no reason to exclude anyone.

HIstorically also i dont remember ever excluding hybrids in Kunark. To be devils advocate perhaps because back then i didnt KNOW about hybrid penalties. I cant say for sure back then i wouldnt of cared about it but i would like to think not :|

[Natewest1987]

I don’t understand the people that are OK with needing an extra hour or two per level. Was in a group earlier with two hybrids and it was absolute hell.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Because the game isn't a big rush for everyone. "To me" its similar to not understanding why a cleric would walk someplace out of the way to rez someone. Or someone porting someone for free. Or selling someone bags for way less than they are worth because they are broke.

I see a hybrid without a group who is perhaps unable to solo and just see it as an opportunity to make a new friend, help someone out or help someone have a laugh.

It doesnt have to be as serious as people make out.

Kunark doesn't come out for a year.

Don't feel that way? Cool. No worries.

[Brut]

Because the game isn't a big rush for everyone. "To me" its similar to not understanding why a cleric would walk someplace out of the way to rez someone. Or someone porting someone for free. Or selling someone bags for way less than they are worth because they are broke.

I see a hybrid without a group who is perhaps unable to solo and just see it as an opportunity to make a new friend, help someone out or help someone have a laugh.

It doesnt have to be as serious as people make out.

Kunark doesn't come out for a year.

Don't feel that way? Cool. No worries.
This.

Before Kunark is out, most anyone who worries that much about their exp per hour rate is going to have multiple lvl 50s anyway. Same deal 60 and Velious. Exp grind only takes so long, the grind for equipment and plat goes on forever.

[slowpoke68]

Better yet, the few of us who aren't playing enchanters and other power house classes should all just reroll. XP per hour and loot is greater than all of course.

Why don't you go play WoW or some other game where you can face roll your way to max level in no time at all?

[vossiewulf]

Summarizing, whatever penalty there is to a group from having a hybrid (probably is to some small degree at this point) is far exceeded by the penalty of an empty group slot.

And for the OP, I think most people will also agree that 1) player "fun to be around" rating and 2) player skill are force multipliers that in the end also easily exceed anything like the assumed exp penalty of grouping with a hybrid. I.E., skilled cool paladin total value >>> total value of boring average warrior.

[Polycaster]

you can fix the hybrid penalty by not caring how fast your exp bar fills up

HERETIC!

[Tenlaar]

I just need to point out that anybody who includes bard along with SK/pal/ranger like they're the same in regard to this topic is probably somebody who shouldn't be listened to. A bard reduces downtime for groups in such a drastic way at this point that it's the one hybrid that usually more than makes up for it's penalty unless you're in a very firmly defined camp with no ability to pull extra mobs.

[Wallicker]

The 40% Exp Penalty that is placed on hybrids.
(Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%)
Affects how much exp everyone in the group gets.

Hybrids get the first cut of exp and what's left over goes to everyone else in the group.
Meaning you get a significantly smaller amount of exp per kill when grouped with a hybrid.

Don't group with hybrids till Jan 2001 Velious patch.

Yes don’t group with us bards then we can just solo your camp.

[cd288]

Summarizing, whatever penalty there is to a group from having a hybrid (probably is to some small degree at this point) is far exceeded by the penalty of an empty group slot.

And for the OP, I think most people will also agree that 1) player "fun to be around" rating and 2) player skill are force multipliers that in the end also easily exceed anything like the assumed exp penalty of grouping with a hybrid. I.E., skilled cool paladin total value >>> total value of boring average warrior.

I don’t mind inviting hybrids by any means, but your first statement is simply inaccurate

[Videri]

you can fix the hybrid penalty by not caring how fast your exp bar fills up

Because the game isn't a big rush for everyone.

I see a hybrid without a group who is perhaps unable to solo and just see it as an opportunity to make a new friend, help someone out or help someone have a laugh.

It doesnt have to be as serious as people make out.

Kunark doesn't come out for a year.

Don't feel that way? Cool. No worries.

<Castle>: We Know This Game...

...Is Not Real Life

[Teflondon75]

Just to add something useless lol. Yesterday in WK I had two different people tell me(Ranger) no to duo grouping bandits as they wanted exp and in such a small group the penalty was too harsh for them(how do you think I feel? lol)

@shrugs@

[feniin]

you can fix the hybrid penalty by not caring how fast your exp bar fills up

[bbsmitz]

you can fix the hybrid penalty by not caring how fast your exp bar fills up

[semioldguy]

I played in a group with 5 Paladins and a Druid over the weekend. The xp gain didn't seem at all slower than any other group I've been in with just one Paladin, in fact it seemed to move quite fast, and it was a lot of fun.

[Kanuvan]

if you want a tank youre geting a hybrid penalty

[Dolalin]

Fortunately, bard song affects the entire group too.

[bum3]

Ranger tanks are highly underestimated. That being said, I gained 2 lvls in MM pond Saturday night with a pally and ranger in group. Night before i lost experience in upperguk with no hybrids. It's all relative.

[fadetree]

Yeah, originally it was a big argument inside of Verant about how OP hybrids were supposed to be. This was based on D&D and MuD experience with like 'warrior/mage' combos that turned out to be, in that ruleset, too powerful. It made them overcautious about EQ hybrids, and to compensate they not only toned down the abilities they increased the exp requirement, which is straight outta D&D. Even then they got nervous and nerfed Rangers into the dirt in beta, if I recall correctly.

[Sizar]

I just need to point out that anybody who includes bard along with SK/pal/ranger like they're the same in regard to this topic is probably somebody who shouldn't be listened to. A bard reduces downtime for groups in such a drastic way at this point that it's the one hybrid that usually more than makes up for it's penalty unless you're in a very firmly defined camp with no ability to pull extra mobs.

I 100% agree. However in a dungeon in today's green/teal like say upper guk, there aren't unlimited mobs to pull. The zones are overcrowded and there usually isn't enough mobs around to take advantage of the time savings a bard would provide. Now if there were enough mobs around that you could take advantage then yes, a bard is probably the most efficient class to have in that group due to how much better he makes everyone / restores hp and mana etc. Just right now a bard for the most part is like anyone else in the group.

That being said i would never kick a bard from group cause they are just so sweet.

[bum3]

I 100% agree. However in a dungeon in today's green/teal like say upper guk, there aren't unlimited mobs to pull. The zones are overcrowded and there usually isn't enough mobs around to take advantage of the time savings a bard would provide. Now if there were enough mobs around that you could take advantage then yes, a bard is probably the most efficient class to have in that group due to how much better he makes everyone / restores hp and mana etc. Just right now a bard for the most part is like anyone else in the group.

That being said i would never kick a bard from group cause they are just so sweet.

Might I suggest you are comparing number of mobs to blue and not to classic? For that instance, why take a warrior? When a bard can pull and tank and CC. They are amazeballs. Just need a cleric, bard, and 4 dps and you are rocking the red mobs like they nuttin.

[unleashedd]

war tanks are fine. everyone else is bad

[Sizar]

I have zero problems with warrior tanks. Would actually prefer them in my group over a Pal / SK just for the extra XP's!!!

[Lartanin63]

The funny part about this whole hybrid thing would be a bit different if stamina loss was in the game. You would either need priests, a bard,a hybrid or a level 29 enchanter with augmentation to replenish the stamina of melee characters. You wouldn't have endless melee slaying machines without someone invigoring them, weapon weight would actually matter. It would be awesome to hear a warrior be like I need to sit and get stamina back or I can't do crap.

[bum3]

The funny part about this whole hybrid thing would be a bit different if stamina loss was in the game. You would either need priests, a bard,a hybrid or a level 29 enchanter with augmentation to replenish the stamina of melee characters. You wouldn't have endless melee slaying machines without someone invigoring them, weapon weight would actually matter. It would be awesome to hear a warrior be like I need to sit and get stamina back or I can't do crap.

+1

[JustAGhost]

I have zero problems with warrior tanks. Would actually prefer them in my group over a Pal / SK just for the extra XP's!!!

They are fine if they are fighting mobs that con blue to them, otherwise taunt doesn't work. If fighting even+ con mobs, they HAVE to have proc weaps to have enough agro.

[Tethler]

Had a group with 2 rangers (40% x2), a bard (40%), a monk (20%), a shaman (troll 20%), and an enchanter (10%) in Befallen murdering most of the basement. I got the entirety of 19 and 80% of level 20 there in about 3 hours even though like 80% of the mobs were xp greens (light blue). Party had a combined xp penalty of 190%, but still got nearly 2 levels in around 3 hours.

"Don't group with hybrids, you won't get good xp" is dumb.

A far greater impact on your xp will be where you choose to level and the competence of the players. Choose groups based on that, not on existance or non-existance of penalties.

[EQElTodd]

Does anyone know if the penalty stacks per hybrid in group? Been on my ranger grouped with a paladin and shadowknight and the xp is at a crawl. It might even be negative!

[Tethler]

Does anyone know if the penalty stacks per hybrid in group? Been on my ranger grouped with a paladin and shadowknight and the xp is at a crawl. It might even be negative!

Probably because the 3 of you combined is equal to like 1 dps class.

[galach]

https://i.imgur.com/MKvyu3K.gif

[Kanuvan]

just dont get any of those afk casters in your group whill also having hybrids and your xp will be golden, its funny when people complain about a 40% xp penalty ranger/bard that is providing dps every pull when the afk shaman/wizard is literally providing negative xp

[bum3]

just dont get any of those afk casters in your group whill also having hybrids and your xp will be golden, its funny when people complain about a 40% xp penalty ranger/bard that is providing dps every pull when the afk shaman/wizard is literally providing negative xp

Amen brother. Those afk casters are 30+% exp penalty themselves.

[Ekl_Mortain]

You know either way, no matter what you do, you will still eventually hit lvl 60. Enjoy the company. Welcome everyone and stop creating stigmas.

[Cen]

I think everyone knows the hybrid penalty effects the group.. Its just people have wild ideas of what that entails. One hybrid joining doesnt give the group his penalty to each person. Only he has the penalty and he takes a share slightly proportipned to it, so its more closer to you all splitting his penalty a few percent each,,but even thats not quite right.. Plus theres a group bonus.

Anyway, the penalty of having one person one level higher is usually worse for a group as a whole then having an even leveled group with say a ranger in it

And if your whole group has troll shadowknights, then and only then does the whole group have a 1.68 leveled penalty.. Plus a 6 man bonus.. And even that isnt so bad

[Frug]

The funny part about this whole hybrid thing would be a bit different if stamina loss was in the game. You would either need priests, a bard,a hybrid or a level 29 enchanter with augmentation to replenish the stamina of melee characters. You wouldn't have endless melee slaying machines without someone invigoring them, weapon weight would actually matter. It would be awesome to hear a warrior be like I need to sit and get stamina back or I can't do crap.

[silo32]

The funny part about this whole hybrid thing would be a bit different if stamina loss was in the game. You would either need priests, a bard,a hybrid or a level 29 enchanter with augmentation to replenish the stamina of melee characters. You wouldn't have endless melee slaying machines without someone invigoring them, weapon weight would actually matter. It would be awesome to hear a warrior be like I need to sit and get stamina back or I can't do crap.

pure fact in classic eq stamina did go down while you were melling

I do remember having to use spells or songs to help people get that yellow bar and not the exp one going in the right direction

I think it is a client issue