Camp Check

[BlackBellamy]

A camp check is a courtesy to ME so I don't have to run around the zone looking for a camp.

A camp check is not a mechanism for YOU to claim the camp.

I say this because I've been involved in some of the most desired non-/list camps in the game, and some people think that you can claim a camp over /ooc. In order to claim the camp, you have to be involved in it. If I come up on the PH and it's just sitting there and you're nowhere in sight, that's not your camp. I'm a courteous guy so I'll wait a minute or two in case you ran off to test your pet or maybe sell something to a nearby player. But if I kill the PH and you show up five minutes later with an exciting story about zoning out or being afk because baby vomit and ask me why I didn't do a cc to see if the camp was free, well then that is just embarrassing for everyone involved.

[cd288]

Agreed

[Bazia]

if a ph is up for 2 or more minutes camps up

[jackd104]

I have had a couple incidents lately of people rolling up to a camp I am actively camping, like killing mobs, and they just start pulling without saying Hi or asking what's up or if the camp is free or anything. I got into an unpleasant argument where these two players insisted they were there first even though I had already starting pulling and killing. I don't doubt that they may have *believed* they were there first, but doing a polite camp check before pulling stuff is the way to avoid these things.

[Modwolf]

In turn I don't call out CC until I'm at the camp. Early CC can alert competition to claim it first.

[Uuruk]

You guys have a sickness

[cd288]

if a ph is up for 2 or more minutes camps up

Unless someone is sitting there finishing up medding to take it down

[bum3]

I've noticed a lot of ppl calling camps in CC.. like a group will have each person call out a different camp. And then you see a lvl 50 running around single pulling the nameds or PHs to that group which is sitting in a far corner of the zone. It's like 7 ppl in zone.. everything's camped? Wut?

[BlackBellamy]

I've noticed a lot of ppl calling camps in CC.. like a group will have each person call out a different camp. And then you see a lvl 50 running around single pulling the nameds or PHs to that group which is sitting in a far corner of the zone. It's like 7 ppl in zone.. everything's camped? Wut?

That's plainly illegal. It's not one spawn point or camp per person. It's one spawn point or camp per group. You can have a group of one or six, doesn't matter.

[Uuruk]

Link some of the videos you made of yourself playing everquest

I don't have any

[Dreenk317]

I have had a couple incidents lately of people rolling up to a camp I am actively camping, like killing mobs, and they just start pulling without saying Hi or asking what's up or if the camp is free or anything. I got into an unpleasant argument where these two players insisted they were there first even though I had already starting pulling and killing. I don't doubt that they may have *believed* they were there first, but doing a polite camp check before pulling stuff is the way to avoid these things.
Lineage members? I've been having serious camp issues with lineage members. Ive asked several if they have even read the camp rules, only one had..... And I'm talking like seven different people over a few days, all lineage members. Has definitely effected my opinion of that guild and its members, as a whole, they seem to feel that every camp is there and camp rules do not apply to them if they dont like the rule....

[Totino]

People who CC are annoying. Ignore them.

I want to camp something, I go check by myself. If it's open I take over. Someone wants to whine about it? I don't mind

[Fawqueue]

Lineage members? I've been having serious camp issues with lineage members. Ive asked several if they have even read the camp rules, only one had..... And I'm talking like seven different people over a few days, all lineage members. Has definitely effected my opinion of that guild and its members, as a whole, they seem to feel that every camp is there and camp rules do not apply to them if they dont like the rule....

I wouldn't say that's a Lineage-specific issue. Any guild that takes has lax requirements for joining, which Lineage does, will have a wide-variety of players, including those who are new, uninformed, or both.

[DMN]

I just wish people would read the damn PnP rules. 90% of the time I have a camp dispute the guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about yet claims he knows the rules and *I* should read them.

i also don't enforce the whle dying/zonng/camping making you lose camp -- as long as you are able to get back in time to clear the PHin a reasonable time frame (2-3 mins), I'm fine with it. I think those rules are stupid, other than maybe the dying one.

[Siege]

You guys have a sickness

Pixothelioma

[loramin]

That's plainly illegal. It's not one spawn point or camp per person. It's one spawn point or camp per group. You can have a group of one or six, doesn't matter.

Actually while I'm no GM, my personal opinion as the compiler of the Camp Rules (http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp%20Rules) page is ... that's actually sort of questionable. The Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349) do say:

Note: A "party" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

Clearly, that supports the idea that a group of 6 = 1 soloer, for all Camp Rules purposes.

But the PnP also says:

While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and dont's on Project 1999

In other words GM fiat trumps that page :) And when you realize that, you realize there's a massive "gray area" between the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349)/Camp Rules (http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp%20Rules) and actual GM practice.

Consider the case of Sebilis Crypt. The staff has established that each room counts as a separate camp, so if a soloer is doing Crypt when a group shows up, that soloer has to pick one room to keep, and the group can't touch it.

But now consider the reverse: a group is doing Crypt, and a soloer wants in. By the "group = soloer" logic, the group has to let them, and should only get to keep one room. But in practice, I think there's a strong possibility a GM would let them keep not only all four rooms, but quite possibly also Emp and Blood (ie. the whole "CE" or Crypt/Emp camp).

If they did, and you forced them to justify the decision, I think they'd argue that in some sense, for the purpose of holding NPCs down, the group can "weigh differently" than an individual. But until they answer the question in a forum post, we'll never know.

[zillabunny]

Wouldnt they both have to pick a single room the other can't touch and the rest would all be fte Until another group came in to claim another room?

[loramin]

Wouldnt they both have to pick a single room the other can't touch and the rest would all be fte Until another group came in to claim another room?

By a strict reading of the PnP and Camp Rules, yes. But you have to understand the staff didn't make the Camp Rules page: a random player did. I dug through old forum searches and compiled it from various assorted GM posts ... posts they'd never intended to be used in a rules document.

Now of course, if they hated it they'd make me take it down: I suspect they just feel ambivalent about it. And the reason for that is not that they hate the players knowing the rules, it's that they want people to know the actual rules.

As I said, there's a third piece to those rules, GM Fiat, and it could be argued that it's the most important. So the staff doesn't want the Camp Rules page to make anyone to forget that:

there's a massive "gray area" between the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349)/Camp Rules (http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp%20Rules) and actual GM practice.

That's why I brought up the Seb Crypt. It's been "adjudicated" thoroughly here in the forums, more than just about any spot (thanks to one especially dedicated soloer of it who got in repeated public camp disputes) ... and yet as I said, despite what the "written rules" say, I think if a GM got a petition from a soloer trying to break up an established full group there ... I'm honestly not sure it would play out strictly "by the book". I think the GM Fiat gray area contains rules that treat groups differently some of the time.

[TripSin]

People who CC are annoying. Ignore them.

I want to camp something, I go check by myself. If it's open I take over. Someone wants to whine about it? I don't mind

I try to not ignore camp checks because I try to be a curteous, empathetic player in a game where resources are scarce and need to be shared. I feel like it's very easy to act autistic and like a selfish jerk I'm this game unneccessarily so I strive to not do that whenever possible.

[Totino]

I try to not ignore camp checks because I try to be a curteous, empathetic player in a game where resources are scarce and need to be shared. I feel like it's very easy to act autistic and like a selfish jerk I'm this game unneccessarily so I strive to not do that whenever possible.

People who CC break my balls and I'm not the only one. Are they being empathetic about it? Hell no. Half of them still come to your camp to check it anyway after you answer so why bother? Every time I log in I keep getting random request from ppl who don't give a shit about me. What are you camping? Can you rez me? Can I you do me a favour? Mind if I ask you something? (This one is golden, you already did dude, that's one useless question on top of the other one)

I'm not an autistic guy and I'm more empathetic than you think. And I sure as shit give and deliver more than I receive. I try to avoid bothering people with my personal needs, specifically because I'm empathetic. CC are useless, and people who use CC are annoying. Only case I use it is when I reach a cleared camp with nobody around.

[aaezil]

if a ph is up for 2 or more minutes camps up

Wrong

There is no set amount of minutes

I believe the gm ruling is “reasonable amount of time” whatever that means

[TripSin]

For the record, I regret bringing autism up. Tried to edit it out but people reply so fast! For anyone with actual autism, I don't hate you for it, u the best. One love :)

[loramin]

Wrong

There is no set amount of minutes

I believe the gm ruling is “reasonable amount of time” whatever that means

Exactly! Like many things the GMs don't want explicit rules, and prefer to handle it by a GM Fiat definition of "reasonable" (although that specific "reasonable" quote is about something slightly different ... I couldn't find a ruling even addressing how long you have to wait to take a camp from someone else: the staff wants things just that nebulous):

Open Outdoor Zones can be anything from Western Wastes, Karanas or West Commons. There are no staff recognized camps for this zone type outside of single spawn points. Examples of single spawn types might be Ocean of Tears Ancient Cyclops, Iceclad Ocean Stormfeather, or Qeynos Hills Hadden. Though, any single spawn point can be claimed, that is the only spawn you can hunt (if being contested). If you are to claim this point you must get aggro/First to Encounter (FTE) within a reasonable amount of time.

Ultimately the correct amount of time to wait to take a mob is A) until just before someone else does, or B) as long as you possibly can, so that if a GM does show up, you'll be confident that the other guy has no valid argument. It's not about "the server has a right amount of time to wait", it's "what's your risk tolerance for being banned, vs. your willingness to sit there not playing the game for awhile?"

Honestly it sucks and is wasteful system for players: inevitably lots of people sit there not killing mobs for longer than they need to, or doing the reverse and taking mobs before the other guy has a chance to claim them. It'd be so much better IMHO if they released some kind of guidelines.

But we also have to remember that staff time is FAR more rare and precious than player time. Volunteers who spend their time not playing a computer game, and instead arbitrating disputes so other people get to play, are super rare, and we absolutely have to prioritize them higher than anything else.

Ultimately they know better than me how to save their own time, and if they they think nebulous rules that waste a little player time are better than specific ones, I support the value judgment they're making. I just think this is something where everyone could win, and if they said "look if you've stared at a mob for 5 minutes, with a timer running, you can take it and not risk being banned" ... or whatever, it won't result in wasting their time.