Chanter charming

[Crico]

Hi guys. I talked to someone who has 50 enchanter that mentioned charming on green is not efficient or worth it like it is on blue.
Listen, I played chanter on blue as an alt and charming was crazy good. I also understand this is one person’s opinion.
Any other enchanters able to weigh in? Have you been able to charm solo effectively? Have groups been much better? Are enchanters not charming in groups?

Fyi my enchanter is only 7 atm as I have limited play time. My intention is to be able to solo mostly so I’d be disappointed to hear that it’s not as feasible for some reason.
Thanks!

[Bazia]

one enchanter has a higher power level than an entire group of non enchanters

charm is laughably easy to perform and effective as ever

[Tecmos Deception]

one enchanter has a higher power level than an entire group of non enchanters

charm is laughably easy to perform and effective as ever

Chanters are awesome. But if you play a chanter stronger than an entire group of non chanters, you must be a far better chanter than I am. And while charm doesn't need to be too horribly complicated to do well, especially when exping and with space to use, it isn't "laughably easy" especially at lower levels and without twinking.

If both the things you're claiming are true, we'd see solo chanters doing lord and king and freeti and shit like people were worried about before green/teal launches. Everyone was doom and gloom about how all the camps would be locked down by solo chanters. Fast forward two months and chanters are barely locking down shit. Why in the world would that be the case if they're strong as a whole group and trivial to play correctly? :rolleyes:

[enjchanter]

one enchanter has a higher power level than an entire group of non enchanters

charm is laughably easy to perform and effective as ever

Spoken like someone who has no idea

[DMN]

Hi guys. I talked to someone who has 50 enchanter that mentioned charming on green is not efficient or worth it like it is on blue.
Listen, I played chanter on blue as an alt and charming was crazy good. I also understand this is one person’s opinion.
Any other enchanters able to weigh in? Have you been able to charm solo effectively? Have groups been much better? Are enchanters not charming in groups?

Fyi my enchanter is only 7 atm as I have limited play time. My intention is to be able to solo mostly so I’d be disappointed to hear that it’s not as feasible for some reason.
Thanks!

If you have limited playtime , as in only an hour or two here and there.. I'd play something else frankly. 1-30ish sucks ass as chanter. And it's not a good class imo to just plat for an hour or two. Especially if you need AFK breaks and such. And that person is essentially right but not something to worry about : rEnchanter power scales linearly with mob power and kunark+ arrives mob strength continues to grow at an accelerated rate compare to 1-50 in vanilla EQ.

[Bazia]

Spoken like someone who has no idea

spoken like someone who is either a.) liar (they're not that strong!) or b.) delusional (it's not that easy!) ;)

[Wallicker]

Enchanters are easily the single most OP class in all of classic and it’s not even really that close Once they get lvl 29+. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise has never played an enchanter, is not good at playing enchanter, or doesn’t want you to know how OP they are. And yes untwinked it is trivial to mow through mobs that are blue/white/yellow cons.

[zillabunny]

Walllicker please post a stream of you mowing thru yellow mobs untwinked. Not some edited video.

Also with no sow or jboots please ��

[Tecmos Deception]

Walllicker please post a stream of you mowing thru yellow mobs untwinked. Not some edited video.

Also with no sow or jboots please ��

This.

Nobody denies chanters and charm are crazy powerful. But there's quite a difference between that (which is pure truth) and "it's faceroll lololz" and "you are stronger than a whole group" and whatever (which are the exaggerations of people who are butthurt that chanters and/or charm haven't been nerfed by the p99 devs).

[Wallicker]

You want me to do it in unrest? Highkeep? SolA? SolB? Guk? Outdoor zone?

[Tecmos Deception]

You want me to do it in unrest? Highkeep? SolA? SolB? Guk? Outdoor zone?

Yep. Blow me away, baby. I'm ready to learn how terrible of a chanter I am that I can't blaze through yellow cons with ease on my chanters. When you're done showing that, please show how easily you manage king, freeti, and lord as a solo chanter. They should be no problem at all since a solo chanter is a strong as a group of 6.

[Wallicker]

Yep. Blow me away, baby. I'm ready to learn how terrible of a chanter I am that I can't blaze through yellow cons with ease on my chanters. When you're done showing that, please show how easily you manage king, freeti, and lord as a solo chanter. They should be no problem at all since a solo chanter is a strong as a group of 6.

Haha now those camps aren’t easy, but definitely doable... I’d put those in like the upper tier classic solo artist list for chanters. Freeti you could probably manage with a lvl 42 lava guardian and slow + a couple mana sieves(RNG would come into play there). The fact that an enchanter could reasonably solo that camp shows just how powerful they are tbh.

[Wallicker]

I wonder if lava guardians are fire immune like FGs. Be interesting to see a couple ench and clerics try to one group naggy like has been done on blue with FGs.

[Bazia]

oh my god kill a yellow con with charmed pets? such a challenge!

please tell me this was a joke

there's lots of areas that a single enc can clear through charming and breaking pets at low health faster than a group without charm can and that's a fact

[DMN]

This bazia clown has been on his enchanter schtick for awhile now. next he'll be telling us how he could solo nagafen with a fire giant.

Kill yellos is incredibly dumb to even try. your DD won't stick so for sure you eat the exp penalty for pet damage. Your root won't hold so when you get a pet break you are pretty fucked. Everything you say sounds dumb and detached from reality. oh, and a warrior can kill yellows if RNGesus ordains it.

[Tecmos Deception]

oh my god kill a yellow con with charmed pets? such a challenge!

please tell me this was a joke

there's lots of areas that a single enc can clear through charming and breaking pets at low health faster than a group without charm can and that's a fact

Moving the goalposts I see. How clever of you.

[zillabunny]

Could have gotten level 50 with all the yellows you've mowed thru at this point where's the stream at?

[Baylan295]

The irony is a main bard is talking shit to two of the more prolific enc soloers on blue about what an enc can do.

[Wallicker]

The irony is a main bard is talking shit to two of the more prolific enc soloers on blue about what an enc can do.

You are talking to me? I respect both their ench opinions and don’t see where I have talked any shit? It isn’t hard to kill a blue or white or yellow with an enchanter... a named mob with 10k+ hp that casts and is surrounded by other mobs is not what I am referring to when I say an enchanter can mow through something, of course they aren’t going to wreck a room full of yellows at the same time either. I do however believe an enchanter can solo efreeti which just goes to show how nuts OP they are as far as being stronger than an entire group well I think that guy may be exaggerating some lol

[TripSin]

Played chanter in live. We didn't charm much back then for a number of reasons (slower connections, lower game knowledge, etc.) Playing chanter again on teal up to lvl 28 now. Charm def strong in group where u only have to worry about one mob when charm breaks and not only can u react faster, groupmmates can react faster to support these days as well.

Was trying to charm solo in MM today. Seemed way, way harder than a same level ranger soloing the same stuff who seemed to have a much more straightforward and less risky time of things. (My cha about 160 and int 140). Root breaks means u easily get two pissed off mobs on u)

[enjchanter]

Yeah enchanters are the strongest class and honestly im not sure why you people arent playing one

honestly wasting your time

[Tecmos Deception]

You are talking to me? I respect both their ench opinions and don’t see where I have talked any shit? It isn’t hard to kill a blue or white or yellow with an enchanter... a named mob with 10k+ hp that casts and is surrounded by other mobs is not what I am referring to when I say an enchanter can mow through something, of course they aren’t going to wreck a room full of yellows at the same time either. I do however believe an enchanter can solo efreeti which just goes to show how nuts OP they are as far as being stronger than an entire group well I think that guy may be exaggerating some lol

Have you been at freeti camp on green or teal?

There's a reason why the swarms of solo chanters locking down all the big camps was a fear that isn't materializing.

This is just an imo sort of thing though. I don't have experience with it yet. I didn't hold out as long as I thought before I made a chanter on green/teal, but he still can't even cast charm yet let alone try out the big camps to see how rough they really are at 50.

[enjchanter]

Have you been at freeti camp on green or teal?

There's a reason why the swarms of solo chanters locking down all the big camps was a fear that isn't materializing.

Tecmos, I really dont think they understand

Probably best to just let people rant so they feel better and let their frustrations out

[Bazia]

talk about saying nothing. whose this enjanter retard again

[Bazia]

Have you been at freeti camp on green or teal?

There's a reason why the swarms of solo chanters locking down all the big camps was a fear that isn't materializing.

This is just an imo sort of thing though. I don't have experience with it yet. I didn't hold out as long as I thought before I made a chanter on green/teal, but he still can't even cast charm yet let alone try out the big camps to see how rough they really are at 50.

it's very doable solo (albeit you might have to levi run to ZL if crit lull resist) but alot of convenience is added by having a CLR to CH pets so most people go that route and duo it instead

[enjchanter]

Eberron 60 Erudite Enchanter
Enjamin 60 Erudite Cleric
Yxarus 60 Iksar Warrior
Fauvana 60 Erudite Necromancer
Erjav 60 Human Bard
Seliel 54 Human Rogue
Enjamini 51 Human Mage
Scinjamin 42 Erudite Wizard

[Bazia]

somehow made 6 posts in a row without a singular point

must be a record

[enjchanter]

Honestly not sure what to tell you man. Its very obvious that enchanters are very powerful compared to all other classes.

In classic, you're going to struggle with not having any way to sufficiently gain hp / mana / cha in harmony. So that basically means youre going to struggle with 2 of 3 three things.

1) Low charisma meaning your charm breaks will be frequent (level disparity at that camp at 50 will be horrible.)

2) Low mana means youre going to have a tough time getting resisted on slows , hasting pets, keeping buffs up and recharming on breaks.

3) Probably the least of the 3 concerns because hopefully mana is one thing you can actually accumulate somehow but a hasted pet is gunna really hurt your classic geared enc with maybe 1k?


Low level charm is just everything listed above but compounded by having even less resources. Charming is doable and yes its great but if we are just going to assume that everything goes perfectly and charm never breaks at a bad time or a stun gets resisted then we dont even need to have a conversation.

The impression im getting right now is that people seem to think that enchanters just charm the toughest mob next to them and then afk while that mob farms xp for them. In classic , i highly doubt enchanters are going to be charming blue cons in groups with their 150 charisma and 587 hp.

Anyone who plays an enchanter knows that it goes one of two ways:

Either everything goes perfectly or everything goes wrong.

The high end camps , i predict, will be prime examples of everything goes right, or everything goes wrong.

[Tecmos Deception]

Well two months of chanter/charm banter on the forums has accomplished one thing, if nothing else. It's tricked me into making a chanter on green/teal sooner than I had planned on (which was never).

[enjchanter]

I mean i almost hate to even chime in on enchanter topics because it basically just boils down to people complaining that enchanters are too strong / i can easily solo x and you cant because y / eq is an easy game so were all losers for playing it

[Bazia]

idk i farmed tons of freeti boots in classic on red, the fact you can levi run to zl on crit resists trivializes the risks of breaking in almost completely

bring a cleric so you can keep one pet and it's even more trivial

meanwhile no other class can solo the camp, im also fairly certain any duo without an enc cant clear the camp

so there's some nice context for enc power levels, a *competent* enc can solo freeti fairly simply meanwhile no duo of non encs in the game can farm the camp

[Siege]

In classic , i highly doubt enchanters are going to be charming blue cons in groups with their 150 charisma and 587 hp.

They're doing it, and they're dropping like flies. I've seen more Enchanter deaths than any other class, and it's almost always due to an inopportune Charm break and/or a string of Charm resists.

[enjchanter]

Okay so the above 2 posts sum up my point
Nice !

[TripSin]

They're doing it, and they're dropping like flies. I've seen more Enchanter deaths than any other class, and it's almost always due to an inopportune Charm break and/or a string of Charm resists.

This. Chanters, in my experience, even good ones, are still by far the most likely to die in groups. Nature of the job. With great power comes great responsibility.

[Tethler]

They're doing it, and they're dropping like flies. I've seen more Enchanter deaths than any other class, and it's almost always due to an inopportune Charm break and/or a string of Charm resists.

A lot of people aren't connecting the dots with lower-level chanter charming and available gear. They are used to being able to heavily twink on blue and expect green/teal chanters to perform the same wearing rags. Was in a sola group and some of the members were constantly ragging on the enchanter for not getting a charm pet (despite having downtime due to lack of spawns, but that's another topic entirely). Enchanter gets a pet and over the next hour dies twice to charm breaks and people hitting the mob when chanter tried to mez/recharm.

Enchanters can do amazing things, but classic gearing options also means that the margin for error is a lot smaller than people are accustomed to.

[Crevex]

Give it 3 months tops, and enchanters will be soloing efreeti. 100% guaranteed.

[Nirgon]

im a god on enchanter

my old TMO bros all rolled em too

cept Sentenza, he made a cleric

c u at Vox today

[DMN]

Give it 3 months tops, and enchanters will be soloing efreeti. 100% guaranteed.

You ain't soloing efreeti for long at level 50. You might get lucky for a round or two, but the level difference is too small to do anything consistently other than ranger gate.

Some of you people just can't get your head out of blue's ass.

[Veridical]

I must be bad at chanter because between pet/root breaks and having no mana pool at level 16, I get faster xp using an animation than I do charming.

[fadetree]

oh boy another thread just like the other six. You will never convince Bazia and his ilk, and they will never convince the devs to 'do something'. Just ignore is my advice, you guys keep getting pulled back in. You should just say "HAHAHA that's right you guys SUCK we're going to lock down everything!". I wonder why Loramin isn't here yet...oh, probably because he has already realized that the arguments on either side are useless.

[waltjig]

idk i farmed tons of freeti boots in classic on red, the fact you can levi run to zl on crit resists trivializes the risks of breaking in almost completely

bring a cleric so you can keep one pet and it's even more trivial

meanwhile no other class can solo the camp, im also fairly certain any duo without an enc cant clear the camp

so there's some nice context for enc power levels, a *competent* enc can solo freeti fairly simply meanwhile no duo of non encs in the game can farm the camp

Wait, there are lvl 50 enchanters soloing a lvl 50 wizard mob in classic? Someone post some videos of a lvl 50 enchanter actually soloing that camp. That’s impressive as fuck to even get a lucky kill on an even con casting mob. And by the way you are crying, no way you EVER soloed this camp even on your 60 enchanter

[Cen]

I don't have a serious enchanter because I know if I had one id stop playing everything else because they rule the world.

[TripSin]

I don't have a serious enchanter because I know if I had one id stop playing everything else because they rule the world.

Nice. That's exactly the kind of unsubstantiated, ignorant attitude we need in players of P99 to make it a great experience.

[Cen]

Nice. That's exactly the kind of unsubstantiated, ignorant attitude we need in players of P99 to make it a great experience.

I hear that. *high fives the air*

[Tecmos Deception]

im a god on enchanter

my old TMO bros all rolled em too

cept Sentenza, he made a cleric

c u at Vox today

Were you in TMO when I was Fischsemmel?

[Nirgon]

Fif

[zillabunny]

Man was really hoping to wake up to videos of dudes mowing thru yellows and soloing the efreeti... Where's the proof my Bros?

[Nirgon]

Ain't none yet

I'd take a stab at it after I'm done leveling rogue

Trick would be breaking in, and not getting a charm break while fighting efreeti. Prob need puppet strings to handle this scenario. I haven't had much luck interrupting him with mezzes, even when tashed. Prob need the Sol Ro tash for this?

His room is not a friggin joke

[Benanov]

Played chanter in live. We didn't charm much back then for a number of reasons (slower connections, lower game knowledge, etc.) Playing chanter again on teal up to lvl 28 now. Charm def strong in group where u only have to worry about one mob when charm breaks and not only can u react faster, groupmmates can react faster to support these days as well.

Was in Paw last night, Enchanter had a charmed gnoll pet. The Mage gave the pet two Swords of Runes. It was not fair. It was not remotely fair.

(The only other time I have seen "not remotely fair" is fear-kiting with 3 rogues in the group.)

When people say chanters are OP, this is the scenario we're talking about. We didn't need a tank, and we didn't need DPS. We had a full group simply because we took all comers.

And yes, part of it is group support. When charm breaks, I had Holy Might ready to go (plus I Courage Line/Symbol chanters when they're charming). Its 6 second stun is generally enough time to get any charmed mob back under control.

Saying chanters have to be able to solo named rooms if they're to be considered OP is a valid request but honestly being able to replace entire roles in a typical pickup group (tank, DPS) while at the same time bringing other requested functions (CC, Clarity) is what makes them OP.

[zillabunny]

Ain't none yet

I'd take a stab at it after I'm done leveling rogue

Trick would be breaking in, and not getting a charm break while fighting efreeti. Prob need puppet strings to handle this scenario. I haven't had much luck interrupting him with mezzes, even when tashed. Prob need the Sol Ro tash for this?

His room is not a friggin joke

I'm not sure if you saw the original post but it was that "untwinked" enchanters can do this...

once we start talking puppet strings wouldn't we be in twinked territory?

[zillabunny]

Was in Paw last night, Enchanter had a charmed gnoll pet. The Mage gave the pet two Swords of Runes. It was not fair. It was not remotely fair.

(The only other time I have seen "not remotely fair" is fear-kiting with 3 rogues in the group.)

When people say chanters are OP, this is the scenario we're talking about. We didn't need a tank, and we didn't need DPS. We had a full group simply because we took all comers.

And yes, part of it is group support. When charm breaks, I had Holy Might ready to go (plus I Courage Line/Symbol chanters when they're charming). Its 6 second stun is generally enough time to get any charmed mob back under control.

Saying chanters have to be able to solo named rooms if they're to be considered OP is a valid request but honestly being able to replace entire roles in a typical pickup group (tank, DPS) while at the same time bringing other requested functions (CC, Clarity) is what makes them OP.

I agree with everything in this post. if you have a good group supporting you and buffing up your pet and baby sitting breaks yes, chanter is fucking hella op

[Nirgon]

I'm not sure if you saw the original post but it was that "untwinked" enchanters can do this...

once we start talking puppet strings wouldn't we be in twinked territory?

Go do it without puppet strings and record the evidence.

I think this is going to be a little harder than you think, but possibly doable.

[TripSin]

I hear that. *high fives the air*

I dare you to actually play one seriously. I can't help but feel that the vast majority of people complaining hard about enchanters are suffering from miscomception or a grass is greener type syndrome. But also I haven't gotten enchanter to the highest levels yet on P99 so maybe it gets more ridiculous later.

Also, it's a PVE game everybody...

[Wallicker]

How many mana sieves does it take to run efreeti dry?

[Cen]

I dare you to actually play one seriously. I can't help but feel that the vast majority of people complaining hard about enchanters are suffering from miscomception or a grass is greener type syndrome. But also I haven't gotten enchanter to the highest levels yet on P99 so maybe it gets more ridiculous later.

Also, it's a PVE game everybody...

I actually do have a pretty prominent enchanter. I apologize for setting that trap. I wasnt aiming for you :p

[Fazlazen]

the guy claiming to mow through yellows on an enchanter also claimed he can solo efreeti as a 50 bard, so let's take everything he says with a grain of salt!

[Wallicker]

the guy claiming to mow through yellows on an enchanter also claimed he can solo efreeti as a 50 bard, so let's take everything he says with a grain of salt!

Won’t even be remotely possible until bards get their new charm.

[derpcake2]

If you want to manasieve Djarn in order to kill it, you don't have the slightest clue.

That's really stupid given that his main spell has a 6.3 second cast time, which combines well with a properly timed AE stun for 10+ seconds of him doing nothing.

[derpcake2]

How many mana sieves does it take to run efreeti dry?

He can cast at least 5 ice comets, so 2k+ manapool.

Manasieve takes about 300 at 50, so you are looking at at least 7 casts.

Manasieve has an 11 second recast (3 sec cast + 8 sec cooldown), so you'd be looking at 77 seconds of casting nothing besides sieve. In practice it would be more due to his manaregen.

Djarn is a lvl 50 mob, doubles for 140. If he does more then 77 dps to your pet, the pet would be dead in the 77 seconds it takes you to manasieve the mob.

It is obviously far better to haste and arm the pet, and just burn Djarn while timing stuns.

[Crevex]

You ain't soloing efreeti for long at level 50. You might get lucky for a round or two, but the level difference is too small to do anything consistently other than ranger gate.

Some of you people just can't get your head out of blue's ass.

Yeah didnt say farming nonstop. Said they will solo it. And i am correct and you know it.

[derpcake2]

You want me to do it in unrest? Highkeep? SolA? SolB? Guk? Outdoor zone?

Please do 30 minutes of mowing yellow cons in Sol B, and Lower guk.

Looking forward to seeing the vids, hope to learn a lot.

Let me know if you need help CRing.

[derpcake2]

Yeah didnt say farming nonstop. Said they will solo it. And i am correct and you know it.

Provide a vid of you breaking efreeti solo and soloing Djarn, without outside buffs, and without stuff like wort potions.

Will pay 3k, its all I have atm.

[DMN]

Yeah didnt say farming nonstop. Said they will solo it. And i am correct and you know it.

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

[derpcake2]

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

I found him up at 3% and riposted him to death on my gnome warrior.

Fucking OP gnome warriors.

[Nirgon]

He can cast at least 5 ice comets, so 2k+ manapool.

Manasieve takes about 300 at 50, so you are looking at at least 7 casts.

Manasieve has an 11 second recast (3 sec cast + 8 sec cooldown), so you'd be looking at 77 seconds of casting nothing besides sieve. In practice it would be more due to his manaregen.

Djarn is a lvl 50 mob, doubles for 140. If he does more then 77 dps to your pet, the pet would be dead in the 77 seconds it takes you to manasieve the mob.

It is obviously far better to haste and arm the pet, and just burn Djarn while timing stuns.

Mana sieve causes massive threat, have fun with that spell on him

[Crevex]

Was in Paw last night, Enchanter had a charmed gnoll pet. The Mage gave the pet two Swords of Runes. It was not fair. It was not remotely fair.

(The only other time I have seen "not remotely fair" is fear-kiting with 3 rogues in the group.)

When people say chanters are OP, this is the scenario we're talking about. We didn't need a tank, and we didn't need DPS. We had a full group simply because we took all comers.

And yes, part of it is group support. When charm breaks, I had Holy Might ready to go (plus I Courage Line/Symbol chanters when they're charming). Its 6 second stun is generally enough time to get any charmed mob back under control.

Saying chanters have to be able to solo named rooms if they're to be considered OP is a valid request but honestly being able to replace entire roles in a typical pickup group (tank, DPS) while at the same time bringing other requested functions (CC, Clarity) is what makes them OP.

Your post clearly sums up the situation. There is a serious discussion to be had about enchanters and their effects on the game as a whole. There is a camp of people (non-min/maxers) that believe p99 enchanters trivialize classic content. In the interest of playing on a classic server, to emulate a classic experience, enchanters should be rebalanced to reflect how they actually were played on live. Its really not an outrageous view point. Perhaps if it were articulated less as an attack on enchanters and more as a discussion about the health of the game, like your post, then people wont get so defensive about it.

Classic mechanics argument doesn't matter at his point. The dev's have made plenty of executive decision for the health of the server. Now if they dev's are happy with things as they are, then i wish they would make a statement, so we can put this whole thing to rest, accept it and move on.

[Crevex]

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

which classes?

[bum3]

Let me give you a point of view from a Cleric whose wife is a pretty damn good enchanter and who has grouped with many other enchanters since sometimes during the night when you need group mates to fill a group there are only druids, ench, and shamans lfg and on my many alts.

A- My wife charms mostly low blues and light blues. Her charm breaks in spurts. She'll hold on to it for 5-10 mobs without a break. But then it will break 3-5x in a row, leaving her OOM. She also CC's (one of the few who do). The charm seems to break almost every time 3+ mobs are pulled, without fail.
B- Most enchanters want to be mages. They don't want to CC/buffbuff, stating they can either CC/buff or charm, that they don't have enough mana for both. Which is true. This isn't blue and people aren't twinked out with a extra 150cha or extra 200+hp.
C- When grouping on my alt.. most enchanters who charm die a lot. Because breaking during a fight hurts and if group cleric doesn't stun it immediately ench will die to the hasted/buffed pet in 3 rounds of attack. Specially with rogue mobs able to front backstab sometimes, for some reason.
D- Other people in group exacerbate this issue because they tell the ench to charm above all else even to point of no CC... but then they don't support charm breaks. They even blame ench for wipes because ench died to it's own charm after the X class dotted it on accident and ench couldn't fast mez and recharm it. A fully buffed and hasted pet who then moves to healer will wipe a group fast during a multiple pull.

So while enchanters are super powerful when charming, they can be more of a hindrance than a boon sometimes. I've noticed that after 40 this is less of an issue since mobs seem to level out with hp/dmg and the ench keeps growing.

[TripSin]

In the interest of playing on a classic server, to emulate a classic experience, enchanters should be rebalanced to reflect how they actually were played on live. Its really not an outrageous view point.

But that is actually kind of silly. You're essentially arguing to "make it classic" by making it literally even less classic. If you want to nerf how people play a class like enchanter on P99 in 2019/2020 in the most classic way possible then you would need to do things like force everyone to play on 56k dial up modems, mem blur everyone's accrued knowledge of the game over two decades, disallow the last two decades' worth of hardware and software advancement, and etc.

[Benanov]

My point in my earlier post was to refocus the discussion not on high-end min/max content, but on garden-variety grouping content.

However, given this, I might consider changing my position:

D- Other people in group exacerbate this issue because they tell the ench to charm above all else even to point of no CC... but then they don't support charm breaks.

The proper response to that is "it sucks to suck, doesn't it?" and to stop charming.

If they inquire further you can educate them upon their duties when charm breaks.

I've been in groups where both enchanters wanted to charm. That's not happening. I don't need both enchanters dealing with charm breaks at the same time - and I'm pretty sure that's the original definition of Murphy's Law.

"If there are exactly two ways to do something, and one of them results in catastrophic failure, then someone will do it that way."

--

Enchanter charm requires taking on certain risks for a massive boost in power. With a knowledgeable partner/group etc, those risks are massively reduced. Without those risk reductions, it's a hop skip and a jump to a TPW.

I think the design is fine as-is. Charm never tells you when it's going to break, and so as a result you are riding a bucking bronco. You're going to get thrown off, it's just a matter of when. Haste your pet or give it too many advantages, and those will come at you once charm breaks.

[Bazia]

"duh you were twinked on blue!" no i was pre-planar on red dumbasses, the shits not as complicated as you would like to believe

im a very incompetent person and i was doing it fairly consistently after being shown the ropes by a certain macequester (may he find peace)

[Wallicker]

He can cast at least 5 ice comets, so 2k+ manapool.

Manasieve takes about 300 at 50, so you are looking at at least 7 casts.

Manasieve has an 11 second recast (3 sec cast + 8 sec cooldown), so you'd be looking at 77 seconds of casting nothing besides sieve. In practice it would be more due to his manaregen.

Djarn is a lvl 50 mob, doubles for 140. If he does more then 77 dps to your pet, the pet would be dead in the 77 seconds it takes you to manasieve the mob.

It is obviously far better to haste and arm the pet, and just burn Djarn while timing stuns.

Not saying that’s what I’d do I was just curious, although one dazzle gives you enough time to completely drain him... 11 sieves is pretty mana taxing on the caster in classic gear. Something worth testing. I stated I would be using a lvl 42 lava guardian with that 6k hp pool and mean DS to take him out.

[Bazia]

in retrospect i may have to concede the levi train strat might not be viable on green because the zones actually populated and you would probably be griefing so that would escalate the difficult significantly

on teal with the zone empty though you could go to town

[zillabunny]

[Mon Dec 23 13:56:51 2019] Beginning to memorize Rune III...
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:52 2019] You have finished memorizing Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:56 2019] You forget Color Shift.
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:59 2019] You forget Mesmerize.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:03 2019] You begin casting Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:07 2019] A dark shimmer of runes surround you.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:14 2019] You forget Memory Blur.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:15 2019] Beginning to memorize Invisibility...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:16 2019] You have finished memorizing Invisibility.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:21 2019] Beginning to memorize Suffocate...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:21 2019] You have finished memorizing Suffocate.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:23 2019] You forget Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:26 2019] Beginning to memorize Sympathetic Aura...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:26 2019] You have finished memorizing Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:32 2019] You begin casting Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:37 2019] You feel a warm aura surround you.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:41 2019] You forget Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:01 2019] Beginning to memorize Augmentation...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:02 2019] You have finished memorizing Augmentation.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:17 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:19 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:21 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:21 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:22 2019] You begin casting Tashani.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:22 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:23 2019] An ice giant glances nervously about.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:27 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:29 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:29 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:30 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] An ice giant tries to bash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] The shimmer of runes fade.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 11 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 96 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:40 2019] You begin casting Beguile.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:44 2019] Your target resisted the Beguile spell.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:46 2019] You forget Beguile.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:49 2019] Beginning to memorize Cajoling Whispers...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:50 2019] You have finished memorizing Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:52 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:57 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:09 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:09 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You begin casting Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:22 2019] Your charm spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:31 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:33 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You begin casting Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:35 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:35 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:44 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:47 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:48 2019] an ice giant says 'Sorry, Master..calming down.'
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:49 2019] an ice giant tells you, 'Attacking an ice giant Master.'
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:55 2019] You begin casting Suffocate.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:59 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:59 2019] Your target resisted the Suffocate spell.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:01 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:01 2019] You begin casting Tashani.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:03 2019] An ice giant glances nervously about.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:09 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:12 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:17 2019] Your charm spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:23 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] An ice giant bashes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 69 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:37 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:38 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] An ice giant bashes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:49 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:49 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 96 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:52 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:58 2019] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Mon Dec 23 14:01:05 2019] You have entered Permafrost Caverns.


So just a heads up this is what a real log looks like and note these Ice giants were BLUE to me at 40 so probably level 39 and I have 190 Charisma...

my roots lasted about 20-30 seconds and my charm lasted 11 seconds and 40 seconds and the giant was tashed...

luckily i had full cleric buffs when I tried this and runed myself before hand to be safe but after just casting these few spells and taking the 3 hits, I was at 50% health and 60% mana


I really wish you guys would provide some proof rather than just tell stories or outright lies about how you did something that clearly you never did, at this point i'm not you've actually even played an enchanter and are just theory questing or talking about maybe doing these things when you were level 60.

[Bazia]

i dont care if you wish i would spend time leveling my 3rd p99 vanilla enchanter to 50 and then record myself breaking freeti im not going to

[zillabunny]

Bro i doubt you could break a bandit camp

[DMN]

Cut Bazia some slack. He is redtarded, after all. Best enchanter red ever had, if you don't count the other enchanter on the server.

[bum3]

Bro i doubt you could break a bandit camp

[bum3]

My point in my earlier post was to refocus the discussion not on high-end min/max content, but on garden-variety grouping content.

However, given this, I might consider changing my position:



The proper response to that is "it sucks to suck, doesn't it?" and to stop charming.

If they inquire further you can educate them upon their duties when charm breaks.

I've been in groups where both enchanters wanted to charm. That's not happening. I don't need both enchanters dealing with charm breaks at the same time - and I'm pretty sure that's the original definition of Murphy's Law.

"If there are exactly two ways to do something, and one of them results in catastrophic failure, then someone will do it that way."

--

Enchanter charm requires taking on certain risks for a massive boost in power. With a knowledgeable partner/group etc, those risks are massively reduced. Without those risk reductions, it's a hop skip and a jump to a TPW.

I think the design is fine as-is. Charm never tells you when it's going to break, and so as a result you are riding a bucking bronco. You're going to get thrown off, it's just a matter of when. Haste your pet or give it too many advantages, and those will come at you once charm breaks.

You seem like a reasonable person.

[derpcake2]

[Mon Dec 23 13:56:51 2019] Beginning to memorize Rune III...
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:52 2019] You have finished memorizing Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:56 2019] You forget Color Shift.
[Mon Dec 23 13:56:59 2019] You forget Mesmerize.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:03 2019] You begin casting Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:07 2019] A dark shimmer of runes surround you.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:14 2019] You forget Memory Blur.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:15 2019] Beginning to memorize Invisibility...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:16 2019] You have finished memorizing Invisibility.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:21 2019] Beginning to memorize Suffocate...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:21 2019] You have finished memorizing Suffocate.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:23 2019] You forget Rune III.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:26 2019] Beginning to memorize Sympathetic Aura...
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:26 2019] You have finished memorizing Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:32 2019] You begin casting Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:37 2019] You feel a warm aura surround you.
[Mon Dec 23 13:57:41 2019] You forget Sympathetic Aura.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:01 2019] Beginning to memorize Augmentation...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:02 2019] You have finished memorizing Augmentation.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:17 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:19 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:21 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:21 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:22 2019] You begin casting Tashani.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:22 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:23 2019] An ice giant glances nervously about.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:27 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:29 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:29 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:30 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] An ice giant tries to bash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:31 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:32 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:33 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] The shimmer of runes fade.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 11 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:36 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 96 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:40 2019] You begin casting Beguile.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:41 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:44 2019] Your target resisted the Beguile spell.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:46 2019] You forget Beguile.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:49 2019] Beginning to memorize Cajoling Whispers...
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:50 2019] You have finished memorizing Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:52 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:58:57 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:09 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:09 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:10 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You begin casting Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:12 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:22 2019] Your charm spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:31 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:33 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] Your target is out of range, get closer!
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You begin casting Cajoling Whispers.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:35 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:35 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:44 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:47 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:48 2019] an ice giant says 'Sorry, Master..calming down.'
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:49 2019] an ice giant tells you, 'Attacking an ice giant Master.'
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:55 2019] You begin casting Suffocate.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:59 2019] Your Enstill spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 13:59:59 2019] Your target resisted the Suffocate spell.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:01 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:01 2019] You begin casting Tashani.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:03 2019] An ice giant glances nervously about.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:09 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:12 2019] An ice giant's feet adhere to the ground.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:17 2019] Your charm spell has worn off.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:23 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You begin casting Enstill.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:33 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:34 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] An ice giant bashes YOU for 25 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:35 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 69 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:37 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:38 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] You are stunned!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] An ice giant bashes YOU for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:47 2019] An ice giant tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:49 2019] You are unstunned.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:49 2019] An ice giant slashes YOU for 96 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:52 2019] Your feet feel quick.
[Mon Dec 23 14:00:58 2019] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Mon Dec 23 14:01:05 2019] You have entered Permafrost Caverns.


So just a heads up this is what a real log looks like and note these Ice giants were BLUE to me at 40 so probably level 39 and I have 190 Charisma...

my roots lasted about 20-30 seconds and my charm lasted 11 seconds and 40 seconds and the giant was tashed...

luckily i had full cleric buffs when I tried this and runed myself before hand to be safe but after just casting these few spells and taking the 3 hits, I was at 50% health and 60% mana


I really wish you guys would provide some proof rather than just tell stories or outright lies about how you did something that clearly you never did, at this point i'm not you've actually even played an enchanter and are just theory questing or talking about maybe doing these things when you were level 60.

Please gtfo with your parses.

This is a feels-based thread, people need emotional support, your actual evidence isn't wanted here.

@Loramin please post feels, thread needs more feels

[Frug]

Please gtfo with your parses.

This is a feels-based thread, people need emotional support, your actual evidence isn't wanted here.

@Loramin please post feels, thread needs more feels

Your obsession with Loramin's feelings should probably be looked into by a professional.

[Bazia]

truth fears no investigation

[Bazia]

kecleon barely made it out of guk , never camped anything of value either

apparently he was genetically poor as well, RIP

wheres nips at?

talking about genetics at least i have wrists bud :p

[Bazia]

Cut Bazia some slack. He is redtarded, after all. Best enchanter red ever had, if you don't count the other enchanter on the server.

correct answer is lethdar

[Crevex]

Provide a vid of you breaking efreeti solo and soloing Djarn, without outside buffs, and without stuff like wort potions.

Will pay 3k, its all I have atm.

Hmm, you're confusing me with someone else i think. I said in 3 months enchanters will soloing efreeti. 100% guaranteed. Never said it was a cake walk or the enchanter wouldn't have to be an excellent player with excellent gear. I would think this would be obvious though. Also I can't time travel 3 months and acquire the gear and clickies to make your video for you. But if you come back in 3 months and i am wrong i will happily admit it.

[Crevex]

But that is actually kind of silly. You're essentially arguing to "make it classic" by making it literally even less classic. If you want to nerf how people play a class like enchanter on P99 in 2019/2020 in the most classic way possible then you would need to do things like force everyone to play on 56k dial up modems, mem blur everyone's accrued knowledge of the game over two decades, disallow the last two decades' worth of hardware and software advancement, and etc.

I accept your opinion and agree with your other examples, but balancing a class that's way outta wack isn't silly. Are the mechanics different, or are people just better now? It is an open debate still. I have a pimped out 60 chanter on blue and i personally feel like the mechanics are off. People have brought up general mob mr as a possible reason. Providing evidence on this front has been extremely challenging.

I'm not trying nerf peoples game and make it less fun (like some of the witch hunters around), its just ridiculously over powered atm, and it all comes from the charm line.

Let me share an experience from the other night. My friend and i (32 pally/32 mage) joined up with a couple of excellent players (35 cleric/35 chanter) at the king camp in Sol A.

The enchanter had a goblin charmed that was backstabbing for up to 192, and hitting in the 70s. As i mage i can't even nuke that hard at 32, and my pet hits for less than half the goblin. And mages are arguably OP af in classic. Think of a ranger.

We stunned/malaise on breaks. Needless to say we absolutely destroyed that camp and had a blast doing it. Never even came close to dying. Enchanter with that kind of backup is just disgustingly good and it trivializes the content. If that's what people want from their classic server that's fine, but its turned into a cheese fest because of the charm line.

[Wallicker]

i dont think anyone at level 50 will be soloing that camp considering the spells he casts

one ice comet and your toast

Yes yes! All the enchanters plan on face tanking freeti and eating the 2k nukes! Why on earth would they charm the 6k hp lvl 42 pet right in the same area and let him tank....

[TripSin]

Are you all getting all up in arms over some 6 int boots? Am I understanding this incorrectly?

Jesus, this is a sad sickness.

[Tethler]

Are you all getting all up in arms over some 6 int boots? Am I understanding this incorrectly?



Yes, you are understanding incorrectly. They are 9 int.