Paladin Tanking

[Cantheron]

As far as some of the stuff I have read, it seems that they use stuns and such to be able to tank. Are paladins able to tank with a 2-hander since they use stuns to keep off the damage as much as possible?

It seems one would be needed to keep the aggro on the paladin himself to do proper damage.

[redghosthunter]

Yes, ya have to use Blind or Stun. Paladins are great tanks don't let people steer ya other wise.

[Cantheron]

oh yea, I know they are great tanks. I was wondering if they can be viable 2-handed tanks?

[Trimm]

Yep :)

[Cantheron]

Does Divinity happen to be recruiting Trimm?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Does Divinity happen to be recruiting Trimm?

Yes, we've been trying to get Trimm to join for ages.

[Hobby]

Paladins main weapon is a FA, essentially. Using a shield is really mostly for the resists while tanking casting mobs. Or using some awesome 1h -shrug-

All their aggro comes from spells + or - some weapon procs.

[Supaskillz]

Rod of Mourning ftw

[Erasong]

Blind is one of the best tanking abilities ever if used right. No ranged agro? Sounds like a busload full of win to me.

[Nagash]

One question I have about paladin tanking: I understand they use their 3 stuns to generate most of their aggro. Now the maximum target level for these stuns is 55, how do they generate aggro vs 56+ targets aside from their (low compared to other classes) dps and taunt button?

Petitpas/Nagash

[RiffDaemon]

Yes, we've been trying to get Trimm to join for ages.

I chortled

[Wizard]

One question I have about paladin tanking: I understand they use their 3 stuns to generate most of their aggro. Now the maximum target level for these stuns is 55, how do they generate aggro vs 56+ targets aside from their (low compared to other classes) dps and taunt button?

Petitpas/Nagash

Well taunt has been changed to not effect any 50+ mob - So with your spells you are at an advantage over a warrior for group tanking. Most of the mobs youll be fighting even at level 60 will not be above 55 so for the most part you will do just fine. If you look at the mob list in say Seb you will find the majority of the mobs levels being 52-53

[falkun]

Just because the stun fails, does not mean aggro is not generated. Stuns still generate a boatload of threat even if they are resisted/immune. Finally, what mobs are paladins tanking (read: not raid Main Targets) that are 55+ regularly?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Finally, what mobs are paladins tanking (read: not raid Main Targets) that are 55+ regularly?

Juggs

[falkun]

Juggs

So...1 camp in a game of hundreds (if not thousands) of camps. Also, the juggs still hate pallies that stun them, even if its immune. I fail to see the problem with stun aggro.

With regard to the original question, it is almost expected for a Paladin to tank with a 2H. The only reason to tank with a shield is for the extra AC. AC is underrated in most people's eyes. A Sarnak Battle shield is 25AC, which is quite a bit for a single piece.

However, in raids if you are just "lol-dps" then use a 2H, they typically have much better DPS (even though all paladin dps is laughable, welcome to bard-land!).

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

So...1 camp in a game of hundreds (if not thousands) of camps. Also, the juggs still hate pallies that stun them, even if its immune. I fail to see the problem with stun aggro.
never said paladins suck at tanking Juggs... merely providing info about 55+ mobs than are tanked outside a raid setting.

[falkun]

never said paladins suck at tanking Juggs... merely providing info about 55+ mobs than are tanked outside a raid setting.

Fair enough. The point of the question though was to express the opinion (fact?) that paladins are not instantly gimp at tanking targets above level 55 due to stun-immunity, and that even if it were an issue, it would not be relevant for 99% of the grouping game.

[Fromage]

Fair enough. The point of the question though was to express the opinion (fact?) that paladins are not instantly gimp at tanking targets above level 55 due to stun-immunity, and that even if it were an issue, it would not be relevant for 99% of the grouping game.

Yup, even stun immune mobs still get all pissy when you cast it on them.

[Doors]

nm think I posted a link to a vamped chardok item.

[Nagash]

I never played a tank in any MMO and was wondering about stun's aggro generating capability as mobs above 55 are not affected by the paladin's and I understand they use it to generate most of their aggro. Glad to hear that the aggro is still generated despite resists/immunities.

Back in the day, I remember seeing some paladins main tanking raids (some sk also) and was wondering how they did it :)

And about level 55+ camps, there might not be a lot in Kunark but the server will go up to Velious where we will see more (Kael for example). Ok, Velious won't be here for a while but it will be here at some point :)

Nagash/Petitpas

[falkun]

Back in the day, I remember seeing some paladins main tanking raids (some sk also) and was wondering how they did it :)

And about level 55+ camps, there might not be a lot in Kunark but the server will go up to Velious where we will see more (Kael for example). Ok, Velious won't be here for a while but it will be here at some point :)

Nagash/Petitpas

On your first question, "Back in the day" must have been later in the EQ lifetime. Even through Velious, raid content was "warrior or GTFO". Defensive discipline, which was exclusive to warriors, is an insurmountable advantage for warriors. Also, warriors are coded to have better HP scaling, their armor has higher innate AC (see Cobalt (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Cobalt_Breastplate) vs. Deepwater (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Deepwater_Breastplate) BPs), and I'm sure there are a few other innate benefits that tanks can elaborate on. I don't think it was until guilds were farming PoTime that they started letting knights MT for their increased aggro generation on farm content.

Velious also had a large end-game Giant population, which, if I remember correctly, is immune to stun regardless of level. So even if camps are fighting mobs under the 55th level, their pally tank could still be fighting stun-immune mobs.

[karsten]

The cool thing about blind, also, is that currently every 20 mobs or so the blind will just make the mob flip out and run all over the place, so enchanters have heart attacks :)

[Nagash]

On your first question, "Back in the day" must have been later in the EQ lifetime. Even through Velious, raid content was "warrior or GTFO". Defensive discipline, which was exclusive to warriors, is an insurmountable advantage for warriors. Also, warriors are coded to have better HP scaling, their armor has higher innate AC (see Cobalt (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Cobalt_Breastplate) vs. Deepwater (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Deepwater_Breastplate) BPs), and I'm sure there are a few other innate benefits that tanks can elaborate on. I don't think it was until guilds were farming PoTime that they started letting knights MT for their increased aggro generation on farm content.

Velious also had a large end-game Giant population, which, if I remember correctly, is immune to stun regardless of level. So even if camps are fighting mobs under the 55th level, their pally tank could still be fighting stun-immune mobs.

Definitely remember having a SK MTing Ssra during Luclin era (which we won't see ont his server) and that was pre VT as we didn't enter VT until after PoP release.
I'll be honest by saying I'm not 100% sure before that but a good 75% that this same SK has been occasionnaly MTing during Velious (with a few exceptions such as the AoW).

[falkun]

Definitely remember having a SK MTing Ssra during Luclin era (which we won't see ont his server) and that was pre VT as we didn't enter VT until after PoP release.
I'll be honest by saying I'm not 100% sure before that but a good 75% that this same SK has been occasionnaly MTing during Velious (with a few exceptions such as the AoW).

That's not an experience I ever had, but then again I was never end-game hardcore. It's awesome to hear about a knight tanking pre-PoP farming though! Was he MTing progression or only content that was on farm?

[Nagash]

Was he MTing progression or only content that was on farm?

Both, he was our 2nd MT, covering for our MT warrior when said warrior couldn't make it to raid or when he died early. To this day I still don't understand why he wasn't our 1st MT (aside for some very specific targets), that lizard was just pure sexy awesomeness when it came to taking a beating or the others.

[Shadey]

We had paladins/sk tank encounters in TOV and prior to that in Kunark many times with success. I remember TOV a bit more clearly. :) And before its said this was during the expac's not after the later ones came out but during each one.

It all depends on the encounter. Snap agro from a knight is needed often in raid encounters. And as far as groups are concerned a Pal/Sk outshine a warrior in most cases as they are more versatile.

So it was NOT warrior or GTFO. LMAO Class hate and the illusion of "perfect" groups are ruling here too much. Have some flexibility and have some fun.

[tokso]

People understand the game better and there seem to be better players (on average) than back in the day. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw knights tanking with more success this time around.

[Dr4z3r]

On your first question, "Back in the day" must have been later in the EQ lifetime. Even through Velious, raid content was "warrior or GTFO". Defensive discipline, which was exclusive to warriors, is an insurmountable advantage for warriors. Also, warriors are coded to have better HP scaling, their armor has higher innate AC (see Cobalt (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Cobalt_Breastplate) vs. Deepwater (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Deepwater_Breastplate) BPs), and I'm sure there are a few other innate benefits that tanks can elaborate on. I don't think it was until guilds were farming PoTime that they started letting knights MT for their increased aggro generation on farm content.

Raiding happened before Disc's and Kunark class armor. Warriors in classic were the worst of the 3 options for most raid tanking.

[falkun]

Ok, I've taken enough hate here. I apologize for forwarding the belief that it was "warrior or GTFO". I still stand by the inherent advantages to mitigation that warriors held over knights for a long time. However, as many above me have pointed out, skilled play (and more clerics) can surmount mitigation, but threat generation is a harder skill for warriors to catch up with knights on.

[redghosthunter]

Ok, I've taken enough hate here.

Hehe. Don't ya love that.