OT and You

[Goosefabba]

Ok how can you expect a group of people to exp in a zone when there are no mobs to kill?But there are mobs in OT you say? sure there are,there are plenty of mobs for several groups to pull without issue. the issue comes about when you have 3 people taking every mob in zone and kiting it around leaving none for anyone else. IE a 27 Wiz and 2 bards, obviously you could play nice and only take 4 or even 8 at a time and noone would notice but when you literally have every mob on you,thats just being a shitty. and noone likes a shitty.

can we plz just respect that other people need to lvl to and that you kiting 3billion mobs might be cool or fun to you its just frustrating and wastes time for us.

done.

[garyogburn]

Ok how can you expect a group of people to exp in a zone when there are no mobs to kill?But there are mobs in OT you say? sure there are,there are plenty of mobs for several groups to pull without issue. the issue comes about when you have 3 people taking every mob in zone and kiting it around leaving none for anyone else. IE a 27 Wiz and 2 bards, obviously you could play nice and only take 4 or even 8 at a time and noone would notice but when you literally have every mob on you,thats just being a shitty. and noone likes a shitty.

can we plz just respect that other people need to lvl to and that you kiting 3billion mobs might be cool or fun to you its just frustrating and wastes time for us.

done.

I find it very hard to believe you cant find any mobs in OT, even with a couple bards kiting.

[Swish]

Ok how can you expect a group of people to exp in a zone when there are no mobs to kill?But there are mobs in OT you say? sure there are,there are plenty of mobs for several groups to pull without issue. the issue comes about when you have 3 people taking every mob in zone and kiting it around leaving none for anyone else. IE a 27 Wiz and 2 bards, obviously you could play nice and only take 4 or even 8 at a time and noone would notice but when you literally have every mob on you,thats just being a shitty. and noone likes a shitty.

can we plz just respect that other people need to lvl to and that you kiting 3billion mobs might be cool or fun to you its just frustrating and wastes time for us.

done.

Had this happen to me in LOIO near the windmill, one high level bard (40+) decimating every spawn in the area between the windmill and goblin fort. Luckily LOIO is massive and its not the end of the world... EQ was built on a sense of community spirit, and 95% of the time I see that here. Just a few bad apples that need to consider their actions a bit more carefully, as always.

[Mcbard]

You people whine so much. Go to another zone and level, or /petition and waste people's time because you don't like the way something is. Nobody expects you and your group to level in OT, most people don't even care. Nobody needs to "respect that other people need to level". You should hunt and do what is in your groups/class/persons skill level and not get upset when other people who have picked a better class/are better players/have a better group make things more difficult for you.

In short: why are you crying about it? Go somewhere else, re-roll, waste gm time by petitioning, just quit whining.

[Swish]

You people whine so much. Go to another zone and level, or /petition and waste people's time because you don't like the way something is. Nobody expects you and your group to level in OT, most people don't even care. Nobody needs to "respect that other people need to level". You should hunt and do what is in your groups/class/persons skill level and not get upset when other people who have picked a better class/are better players/have a better group make things more difficult for you.

In short: why are you crying about it? Go somewhere else, re-roll, waste gm time by petitioning, just quit whining.

Stop whining about people whining....

[Mcbard]

Stop whining about people whining....

Stop whining about me whining about people whining.

[Arclyte]

shut up nerds

[Donaldsen]

Take it to R&F and learn how to spell.

[Hasbinbad]

bards cant claim superiority at any other time in their entire career.. they get shit on constantly, and cant really do anything well.. leave them alone to their moment of glory.

[alWald0]

Or you could re roll a bard =)

[AreYouAngered MyBrother]

Why are you exping in an outdoor Kunark zone? It's shit exp unless you're...kiting lots of mobs.

You've made a conscious decision to group in a zone with horrible exp.
So....why would you suddenly care about how much exp you're getting?

It makes no logical sense unless you're factioning or trying to farm a specific loot.


It is almost like you just want this guy to do what you say, without any thought as to why you're in this zone in the first place.

[Grizzl]

You know what i love about Bards? Its when i, (Ench) have to leave
a group and the only replacement is a Bard. Im not sure if its the
comments of regret, angst, or just plain doomed acceptance I see
from the group that make me feel so good I rolled an Ench instead
of a Bard.

[Grizzled]

As a bard of 7 years on live, i see both sides of the issue. I spent my long days swarm charm kiting Plane of Nightmare. All the birds trees and spiders were in my pack. A dick move yes. However at the time i was doing this Omens had come out and i was only pissing off 2 groups per day, cause the planes were empty.

Now the other side of the coin is, Kunark is just released. Lots of people are hitting kunark zones to exp. A large amount of the population is new players coming in with the expansion. Ot is one of the best chain pull "smash" grouping zones in kunark. And these people are pissing off 30+ groups a day.

You can look at this coin either way. I really dont care, my inner Bard is too striong. Its just a fine line, between hoarding and ability. Much like the fine line between kiting and training, very difficult to judge.

[Salty]

OT is huge bro, move around

[Amelinda]

There is a difference between swarm kiting and being a griefing annoyance to the zone.

If you are running around gathering the entire zone and stealing mobs from other people who are camping there if they have them mezzed etc whatever with your AE and training people and killing them and hogging the entire zone for a ridiculous amount of time then I personally will consider you to be griefing and you will win a suspension.

I have played bards. I "get" swarm kiting. but, I never trained anyone, and I never kited the entire damn zone.

Stop being selfish during peak hours in highly populated zones. Because when you are selfish I get a ton of petitions and have to show up to the zone.

When someone calls you out on it, don't be an ass.

Be reasonable and play nice please.

And by a similar token... people who petition at the drop of a hat without attempting to work things out with a /tell first? Seriously. L2B an adult :p

[Goosefabba]

im not saying don't kite, just have some consideration for your fellow players that are trying to lvl, also i love the tags for this. apparently i must be young whiney bitch living in my moms basement 2/3rds true.

[garyogburn]

You know what i love about Bards? Its when i, (Ench) have to leave
a group and the only replacement is a Bard. Im not sure if its the
comments of regret, angst, or just plain doomed acceptance I see
from the group that make me feel so good I rolled an Ench instead
of a Bard.

Not to give any credence to this post, but it makes me wonder about high end bards. Can bards mez as well as chanters in the deep 50s/60s? I have a lower level bard, 24, and he can mez very well, so I hope this ability isnt diminished later on.

[Grizzled]

OT is huge bro, move around

I dont think you understand. They literally spend 10-15 mins swarming up the entire zone of rhino's, non casting sarnaks, cats,cacti and chickens. The only thing they are leaving is the greens down by the watering hole. The only place to move to is another zone. this cannot be acceptable. Most of the dungeons are caster camped. Soo at the levels you hunt OT where is there left to go? Old world? Open zones get swarmed, dungeons locked up with casters soloing named camps. Something has got to give. This is the reason why on live, the agro limit was set to 4 mobs. 4 mobs of the same name was all you could agro. Once you picked up a 5th, one would lose agro and go walking off till one died.

[Mcbard]

Not to give any credence to this post, but it makes me wonder about high end bards. Can bards mez as well as chanters in the deep 50s/60s? I have a lower level bard, 24, and he can mez very well, so I hope this ability isnt diminished later on.

The max level we can mez is 55, not sure what it is for enchanters but that should take care of most exp mobs, however ours only lasts 18 seconds max, and in general Enchanters do a much more rounded and better job of CC, but a bard should do fine in most exp groups. The main reason people probably pick enchants over bards for groups is because they can add charm dps, cast clarity, and don't have a 40% exp penalty.

Which is why when you see a bard soloing instead of saying "that fucker!" the appropriate response, as hasbinbad pointed out, should be "aww that poor boy, good for him!"

[Mcbard]

Soo at the levels you hunt OT where is there left to go? Old world? Open zones get swarmed, dungeons locked up with casters soloing named camps.

Dalnirs/droga are only a zone away, and plenty of non-named mobs offer great experience (are there even any named exp mobs in OT?)! Old world is also very viable, I recall KK being great experience, and some of the SolB and guk camps were also tolerable.

[Lickum]

Bards appreciate when you root, snare and dispell their mobs, just help them out they have it hard enough.

[Savok]

Had this happen to me in LOIO near the windmill, one high level bard (40+) decimating every spawn in the area between the windmill and goblin fort. Luckily LOIO is massive and its not the end of the world... EQ was built on a sense of community spirit, and 95% of the time I see that here. Just a few bad apples that need to consider their actions a bit more carefully, as always.

There is a difference between swarming for exp and killing an area to spawn a rare mob - learn the difference. If any other level 40 melee toon was doing the same thing then your post would be a non-issue but you posted because he was a bard. Why the fuck would a high end bard need to swarm kite the whole area when you know the couriers spawn table?

You know what i love about Bards? Its when i, (Ench) have to leave
a group and the only replacement is a Bard. Im not sure if its the
comments of regret, angst, or just plain doomed acceptance I see
from the group that make me feel so good I rolled an Ench instead
of a Bard.

Then your ex group is only finding shitty bards, or your full of yourself. I get plenty of tells to fill out a puller/CC/whatever else needs to be filled spot. Thats the beauty of bards we can fill almost any spot rather than the buff whore you become.


Personally as a 12 year bard vet I think taking all the spawns is a shitty thing to do, maybe thats why I'm only level 37 after 5 months on Savok. If I wanted to solo up I could go play any number of FPS games for the same result. I would rather group.

[Maelstrom]

oh snap!

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/5849/eq000005.png

[Lazortag]

Not to give any credence to this post, but it makes me wonder about high end bards. Can bards mez as well as chanters in the deep 50s/60s? ...

Yes. Chanters have better CC skills on raids, but a good Bard should CC in exp groups from 28-60 (or at least 28-57 since I'm only 57 now) better than a chanter can.

bards cant claim superiority at any other time in their entire career.. they get shit on constantly, and cant really do anything well.. leave them alone to their moment of glory.

This is untrue. Bards are the best pullers for exp groups and arguably the best CC. Their songs also give the best resists in the game on raids. Both manasongs are great too. From 1-50 they're incredibly good at soloing, and actually fun and not boring as hell like most pet classes. I think you meant "rangers", not "Bards", either that or you group with some terrible Bards.

As for kiting all of OT, I've been using OT to PL a friend's bard and my pulls have about 30-40 mobs on average, and even with several other bards in the zone I usually still see tons of mobs on track that I haven't claimed. This is just in the area near the FM zoneline so I could be wrong about how bad OT is for regular exp groups.

edited to be a bit more polite

[Grizzl]

I just want to be clear from my earlier post. I actually do
like Bards. Always happy to see them in a group personally.
However, i was being truthful about the comments i hear
when i as an Ench have to be replaced by a Bard.
(obviously this doesnt pertain to pulling)

That notwithstanding, my comment was mostly aimed
at McBard when he said "dont be angry at people who
picked a better class" and "reroll". etc

All and i mean All classes have their advantages and dis-
advantages and you should play what you want and enjoy.
Dont roll a Bard just cause a few undesirables are not
respecting the game.

[Mcbard]

a good Bard should CC in exp groups from 28-60 (or at least 28-57 since I'm only 57 now) better than a chanter can.

How exactly do you reason this out since chanters have a much better repertoire (multiple stuns, and ae mez) for CCing than bards, and both their me and charm durations last longer? A good enchanter will probably keep a rune up on themselves as well, so theoretically they should be taking less damage.

[Lazortag]

How exactly do you reason this out since chanters have a much better repertoire (multiple stuns, and ae mez) for CCing than bards, and both their me and charm durations last longer? A good enchanter will probably keep a rune up on themselves as well, so theoretically they should be taking less damage.

Chanters are better in practically fictional situations where you have more than 5 mobs in camp and you might need (a) a mez that lasts longer than 18 seconds or (b) an ae mez. In my groups I usually pull so I can ensure that no such mishaps occur (usually!), so I'm mostly speaking from my own experience, and not addressing situations where the group gets trained by thirty mobs (even in such situations, the chanter is only marginally better and the group will usually wipe). The first reason Bards are better is that they do in fact take less damage - they have more hit points and better mitigation which makes up for rune (assuming the chanter is consistently casting it on themselves). The second reason Bards are better is because their mez is lower aggro, making it far easier to aggro previously mezzed mobs off of a Bard, as well as aggroing currently mezzed mobs off of a Bard when tanks/pets/dot's break mez. This is especially relevant now when taunt won't work for 51+ mobs. The third reason Bards are better is because they can move around while mezzing (this is also another reason why they take less damage). This helps for positioning of mobs, and it means that less mezzes will get interrupted mid-cast. The fourth reason Bards are better is that their mez costs no mana, while a chanter's mez does cost mana. The fifth reason Bards are better is that their charm also costs very little mana (20) and can be used as a memblur for when something has been mezzed for a very long time and would likely aggro the Bard for a while after mez breaks. The sixth reason Bards are better is because they can use charm to simultaneously CC and DPS on pulls with exactly 2 mobs (this is unique to Bards because their charm is lower mana and can be casted while moving, and since it has a shorter duration you don't need to mem invis or get lucky on Hide being successful to break charm - for me it usually breaks just as the mob is at 1-5% hp). The seventh reason Bards are better is because they don't need to stay at the camp and med, so they can both pull and CC, and often they can CC mobs mid-pull which saves the cleric mana. I could probably think of more reasons but I don't want to sound contrived - I think these are the most important ones though.

I play both an enchanter and a Bard (see my sig!). My Bard was already level 50 when our first mez was changed to be PBAE, so I have no idea if Bards are any better at CCing at level 15. But I do know that when Bards get their targeted Mez (level 28), they are better CC in experience groups if they're played well.

[garyogburn]

Chanters are better in practically fictional situations where you have more than 5 mobs in camp and you might need (a) a mez that lasts longer than 18 seconds or (b) an ae mez. In my groups I usually pull so I can ensure that no such mishaps occur (usually!), so I'm mostly speaking from my own experience, and not addressing situations where the group gets trained by thirty mobs (even in such situations, the chanter is only marginally better and the group will usually wipe). The first reason Bards are better is that they do in fact take less damage - they have more hit points and better mitigation which makes up for rune (assuming the chanter is consistently casting it on themselves). The second reason Bards are better is because their mez is lower aggro, making it far easier to aggro previously mezzed mobs off of a Bard, as well as aggroing currently mezzed mobs off of a Bard when tanks/pets/dot's break mez. This is especially relevant now when taunt won't work for 51+ mobs. The third reason Bards are better is because they can move around while mezzing (this is also another reason why they take less damage). This helps for positioning of mobs, and it means that less mezzes will get interrupted mid-cast. The fourth reason Bards are better is that their mez costs no mana, while a chanter's mez does cost mana. The fifth reason Bards are better is that their charm also costs very little mana (20) and can be used as a memblur for when something has been mezzed for a very long time and would likely aggro the Bard for a while after mez breaks. The sixth reason Bards are better is because they can use charm to simultaneously CC and DPS on pulls with exactly 2 mobs (this is unique to Bards because their charm is lower mana and can be casted while moving, and since it has a shorter duration you don't need to mem invis or get lucky on Hide being successful to break charm - for me it usually breaks just as the mob is at 1-5% hp). The seventh reason Bards are better is because they don't need to stay at the camp and med, so they can both pull and CC, and often they can CC mobs mid-pull which saves the cleric mana. I could probably think of more reasons but I don't want to sound contrived - I think these are the most important ones though.

I play both an enchanter and a Bard (see my sig!). My Bard was already level 50 when our first mez was changed to be PBAE, so I have no idea if Bards are any better at CCing at level 15. But I do know that when Bards get their targeted Mez (level 28), they are better CC in experience groups if they're played well.

That was very helpful, thanks. My bard is only 24, but im having fun AEing in loio. I typically dont take more than 5-10 mobs though, as I dont have it perfected yet.

my favorite part about my bard is grouping though. At 23 I pulled/CC for a castle MM group and it was more fun than ive had in a long time in a group.