Patch Notes: Wednesday, March 25, 2020

[Rogean]

We are pushing out a small patch today to implement some pathing code changes, as well as an overhaul of the Zone Experience Modifiers (ZEMs).

Code Patch Notes
Haynar: Made changes to pathing which were causing large races to fall below World. This also caused mobs to fall through bridge at VP entrance, causing weird pathing in lava around zone in.
Haynar: Fixed a bug with spell and combat push, which could cause mobs to fall below world. Update Friday, March 27th: The pathing changes have been reverted for now.

Zone Experience Modifiers
With today's patch we are doing a complete re-evaluation of the Zone Experience Modifiers (ZEMs) of all Classic-era Zones. These ZEMs have not been looked at for a long time on the project, and having looked at them, there was a lot of disparity between them. We feel that adjusting these will help restore some balance between underutilized and overutilized zones. The majority of zones are receiving a change to their value.

Starting with outdoor zones, we aimed for a baseline that all of these zones should be at. We then addressed dungeons and special zones, taking into consideration their risk vs reward and typical population numbers. This has resulted in the following changes.

Note that the ZEM is only one small part of a large formula that calculates overall experience gain. This includes other factors such as the number of members in a group, the con level of the mob, your race/class modifiers, and others. As a result, the actual change that you notice may be less than what is reflected below.

We will be keeping an eye on the results of these changes and may make further adjustments as necessary.


South Qeynos was not changed.
North Qeynos was increased by 33%.
Surefall Glade was not changed.
Qeynos Hills was increased by 33%.
Highpass Hold was increased by 25%.
High Keep was reduced by 25%.
North Freeport was increased by 33%.
West Freeport was increased by 33%.
East Freeport was increased by 33%.
Runnyeye Citadel was increased by 50%.
Western Plains of Karana was increased by 33%.
Northern Plains of Karana was increased by 33%.
Southern Plains of Karana was increased by 33%.
Eastern Plains of Karana was increased by 33%.
Gorge of King Xorbb was increased by 100%.
Blackburrow was increased by 25%.
Infected Paw was increased by 67%.
Rivervale was not changed.
Kithicor Woods was increased by 33%.
West Commonlands was increased by 33%.
East Commonlands was increased by 33%.
Erudin Palace was not changed.
Erudin was not changed.
The Nektulos Forest was increased by 33%.
Lavastorm Mountains was increased by 33%.
Halas was increased by 33%.
Everfrost was increased by 33%.
Solusek's Eye was reduced by 4%
Nagafen's Lair was reduced by 6%
Misty Thicket was increased by 33%.
Northern Desert of Ro was increased by 33%.
Southern Desert of Ro was increased by 33%.
Befallen was reduced by 22%.
Oasis of Marr was increased by 33%.
Toxxulia Forest was increased by 33%.
The Hole was increased by 50%.
Neriak Foreign Quarter was not changed.
Neriak Commons was not changed.
Neriak Third Gate was not changed.
Najena was reduced by 4%.
Qeynos Aqueduct System was increased by 25%.
Innothule Swamp was increased by 33%.
The Feerrott was increased by 33%.
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule was increased by 76%.
Oggok was increased by 33%.
Rathe Mountains was increased by 33%.
Lake Rathetear was increased by 33%.
Grobb was not changed.
Greater Faydark was increased by 33%.
Ak'Anon was not changed.
Steamfont Mountains was increased by 33%.
Lesser Faydark was increased by 33%.
Crushbone was reduced by 22%.
Castle Mistmoore was reduced by 3%.
South Kaladim was increased by 33%.
Northern Felwithe was not changed.
Southern Felwithe was increased by 33%.
Estate of Unrest was reduced by 13%.
Kedge Keep was increased by 63%.
Guk (Top) was reduced by 17%
Ruins of Old Guk (Bottom) was reduced by 6%.
North Kaladim was increased by 33%.
Butcherblock Mountains was increased by 33%.
Ocean of Tears was increased by 33%.
Dagnor's Cauldron was increased by 33%.
Plane of Air was not changed.
Plane of Fear was not changed.
Permafrost Caverns was increased by 88%.
Kerra Isle was increased by 11%.
Paineel was increased by 33%.
Plane of Hate was not changed.
Erud's Crossing was increased by 33%.

[Indecisive]

Dang. This looks great!

[Clutterx]

Will this work for all servers or just green?

[baakss]

Very cool, thank you!

[uygi]

Curious, what are the percentages? Are those % changes relative to what we used to have?

Either way, I like it!

[magnetaress]

*cheers* nice changes for the zems :D

[magnetaress]

Will this work for all servers or just green?

red is coming down tooo so assuming its also getting a much needed patch )

[Tinino]

Excellent, ty !

[Videri]

WOW!! I'm so happy they adjusted ZEMs, and that they may make further adjustments as necessary! That could improve a lot of things. Thank you, staff members.

[damianicus]

Has https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide been updated?

[BlackBellamy]

These are some substantial changes right here.

Infected Paw was increased by 67%
Gorge of King Xorbb was increased by 100%
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule was increased by 76%.
Kedge Keep was increased by 63%
Permafrost Caverns was increased by 88%.

[Bulzie]

Where is update to mage getting pets aggro if doing no dmg. We need to be able to chain pet!!!

[Anxarcule]

This is amazing! Let people spread out more and not cluster all in one zone. Well done devs!

[raidil]

Ok can u give us an idea of what zones been changed this won't help if we don't know people going to still be at the same places

[ld420]

I love you guys irl.

[freshjiva]

Open the spoiler.

[Barantor]

Ty for adjusting the ZEMs

[Khaall Drogo]

Can we get a similar list of what the zones were at, or what they are at in total now? Not just the change but the actual Modifier.

[Cen]

HOLY CARPS

[Ivory]

Infected Paw was increased by 67%
Gorge of King Xorbb was increased by 100%
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule was increased by 76%.
Kedge Keep was increased by 63%
Permafrost Caverns was increased by 88%.


I approve of these brave changes.

[Swish]

Bless this patch.

[hextasy]

yisssss

[Clutterx]

Check the wiki and then add/subtract what he listed in his post....

[Drakborn]

What about Plane of Mischief?

Oops... classic era only..

[Videri]

Ok can u give us an idea of what zones been changed this won't help if we don't know people going to still be at the same places

It's in the original post. Just click the Show Spoiler button.

[Pootle]

Ok can u give us an idea of what zones been changed this won't help if we don't know people going to still be at the same places

If only this information was in the first post!!!!!!! Wouldnt that be something.

/sarcasm

[galach]

XP Distancing

[BlackBellamy]

XP Distancing

You know what kind of madhouse CT is about to become?

[Wiltan]

Has https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide been updated?

If you click the History tab at the top, you'll see it hasn't been. Get typing, buddy!

[Menden]

XP Distancing

Yeah! Spread out you filthy animals!

[Faywind]

You know what kind of madhouse CT is about to become?

Can't wait! Always enjoyed that zone but no one ever xp'd there

[Crabmeat]

Cant find a v54 Patch. Do these changes not require patches on our end?

Can we get a fix for transparent weapons? nothings see through anymore....

[BlackBellamy]

Everyone is going to be like like what about my thing :/

[Indecisive]

You know what kind of madhouse CT is about to become?

The best kind.

[Medris]

Cant find a v54 Patch. Do these changes not require patches on our end?

Server side patch only

[loramin]

Who are you and what have you done with Rogean and Nilbog? ;)

Seriously though, I never thought I'd see this day. Well done sirs.

https://i.imgur.com/Gs5DTE9.gif?1

[knucklehead]

Has https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide been updated?

It's been like two seconds.

[Notaa]

every time there is a patch that doesn't include the rest of the 2Hers being upgraded part of me dies inside :(

good changes though

[Indecisive]

I didn't catch this on first read:


High Keep was reduced by 25%.
Solusek's Eye was reduced by 4%
Nagafen's Lair was reduced by 6%
Befallen was reduced by 22%.
Najena was reduced by 4%.
Crushbone was reduced by 22%.
Castle Mistmoore was reduced by 3%.
Estate of Unrest was reduced by 13%.
Guk (Top) was reduced by 17%
Ruins of Old Guk (Bottom) was reduced by 6%.


Should be interesting to see how the crowds spread out now.

[Kanuvan]

mistmoore did not need that nerf, do you see the amounts of trains and death that happen in that zone? a 5% increase would of made more sense

also what is with people asking for random nonsense changes and buffs, do you know what server you play? haha

this patch is only to persuade players from metagaming and play the game more like people played during classic, not 100 players in guktop at launch, people didnt know about ZEM for years

[Zephire]

You know what kind of madhouse CT is about to become?

the kind that it was in classic? That place was always packed to the gills, even after rubi stopped dropping :D

[Dolalin]

Wow this is pretty cool guys. Well done.

Not 100% authentic but I like it. Should make people spread out. This is more like what ZEMs should have been.

BTW good job increasing all the newbie zone ZEMs to account for the level 1-6 ZEM bonus on old Live. Just noticed that.

[pizzasuit]

Has https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide been updated?

doesn't look like it; nor have the zone pages themselves

[Trinost]

Hhk killing guards and nobles for 40+ just ended lol wonder where new hot zone is.

[Annona]

Is it just me or is druid tracking able to see more? Same spot I am always camping at and usual mobs are further down list.

[Gustoo]

OOOOOO best patch in the last 10 years.

GORGE TIME BABY

Time for people to stop pretending like 1000 people is too much for classic everquest.

[Gustoo]

Prepare for some classic style trains in these zones that 9/10 pop has spent less than 10 minutes in. Gunna be gold.

[loramin]

Has https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide been updated?

doesn't look like it; nor have the zone pages themselves

Since I (the original author of that guide) don't play anymore I don't have the "fire in my belly" required to update the wiki with the new ZEMs.

However, the guide doesn't have my (or anyone else's) name on it for a reason: it's a community resource. I heartily encourage active players to fix it and the rest of the wiki because ... it's a wiki :)

[larper99]

I didn't catch this on first read:



Should be interesting to see how the crowds spread out now.

Looks like they made most of the outdoor zones 100% (as should be), and dungeons around 150% in most cases. They also seem to be treating Xorrb as a dungeon.

The wiki update seems wrong tho, at least for HK. The notes say that HK is reduced by 25%. But, is that a reduction from 200 to 175, or a reduction from 200 to 150, to match other dungeons?

[Izmael]

Part of what makes EQ unique is the mystery surrounding many server-side mechanics. Exact ZEM values are an example.

[larper99]

Whoever is updating the wiki, we need to confirm the new values.
The old values were written like this (for EC for example)

ZEM 75% (100%).

If the 75% were the actual previous value, then increasing it by 33% as stated in the announcement could be interpreted as either:

75 + 33 = 108 or
75 * 1.33 = 100 or
100 * 1.33 = 133

Not sure what the original 75 (100) was meant to say, but I think it means the current (or recent) ZEM was 75. I interpret "increased by 33%" meaning they made it 100%. Look at all of the udpated values and interpret them that way. It makes the most sense. Outdoor zones are now 100%, most dungeons are an even 150%.

At least, that is how I interpret the whole thing.

[Vheran]

Amazing! Thank you!

[zaneosak]

Curious, what are the percentages? Are those % changes relative to what we used to have?

Either way, I like it!


This is a great question. Saying west karana increased by 33 percent means it would be zem 100 instead of 75.

Or does it mean set to 33%? In this scenario those are the same thing. But other zones it would be different.

[Castle2.0]

In order of nerfed to buffed

High Keep -25%
Befallen -22%
Crushbone -22%
Guk (Top) -17%
Estate of Unrest -13%
Nagafen's Lair -6%
Ruins of Old Guk (Bottom) -6%
Solusek's Eye -4%
Najena -4%
Castle Mistmoore -3%
Kerra Isle 11%
Highpass Hold 25%
Blackburrow 25%
Qeynos Aqueduct System 25%
North Qeynos 33%
Qeynos Hills 33%
North Freeport 33%
West Freeport 33%
East Freeport 33%
Western Plains of Karana 33%
Northern Plains of Karana 33%
Southern Plains of Karana 33%
Eastern Plains of Karana 33%
Kithicor Woods 33%
West Commonlands 33%
East Commonlands 33%
The Nektulos Forest 33%
Lavastorm Mountains 33%
Halas 33%
Everfrost 33%
Misty Thicket 33%
Northern Desert of Ro 33%
Southern Desert of Ro 33%
Oasis of Marr 33%
Toxxulia Forest 33%
Innothule Swamp 33%
The Feerrott 33%
Oggok 33%
Rathe Mountains 33%
Lake Rathetear 33%
Greater Faydark 33%
Steamfont Mountains 33%
Lesser Faydark 33%
South Kaladim 33%
Southern Felwithe 33%
North Kaladim 33%
Butcherblock Mountains 33%
Ocean of Tears 33%
Dagnor's Cauldron 33%
Paineel 33%
Erud's Crossing 33%
Runnyeye Citadel 50%
The Hole 50%
Kedge Keep 63%
Infected Paw 67%
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule 76%
Permafrost Caverns 88%
Gorge of King Xorbb 100%

[Lordgordon]

Dope

[zaneosak]

These are some substantial changes right here.


I think the rogean post is worded poorly. Paw had a zem of 20 percent. I would say it went up TO 67 percent. Not 67 on top of 20. Makes no sense. It would be higher than most all zones if was the case. So I think they mean to say paw is now at 67% bonus. Would mean paw new zem is 120 instead of 90. Only an actual increase of 33 percent on top of what it has.

[dragoonJ]

Not sure what the original 75 (100) was meant to say


75 is the raw value used in the experience equation for how much xp mobs give you http://wiki.project1999.com/Experience#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

But 75 was also the "baseline" for all zones, so you can get more helpful comparisons if you treat it as 1, or 100%. Like rather than saying greater faydark is 75 and crushbone is 160, you can say gfay is baseline (100%) and crushbone is 213%, or over double the xp for killing the same level mob.

[zaneosak]

Whoever is updating the wiki, we need to confirm the new values.
The old values were written like this (for EC for example)

ZEM 75% (100%).

If the 75% were the actual previous value, then increasing it by 33% as stated in the announcement could be interpreted as either:

75 + 33 = 108 or
75 * 1.33 = 100 or
100 * 1.33 = 133

Not sure what the original 75 (100) was meant to say, but I think it means the current (or recent) ZEM was 75. I interpret "increased by 33%" meaning they made it 100%. Look at all of the udpated values and interpret them that way. It makes the most sense. Outdoor zones are now 100%, most dungeons are an even 150%.

At least, that is how I interpret the whole thing.

75 zem has always been 0 bonus. 90 zem for example is 20% bonus. For skme reason the wiki always said 120%.

[Larethan]

These are MASSIVE changes to the game and where people will play. Seriously considering rolling a new toon on Green after this. Might actually be able to find a group in locations that I've never adventured in before.

[BlackBellamy]

Prepare for some classic style trains in these zones that 9/10 pop has spent less than 10 minutes in. Gunna be gold.

This is already happening. There are also train-based recriminations and hostility. It's like HHK all over the place!

[Pretzelle]

Pathing is still absolutely busted with regards to line of sight causing mobs to spaz out.

[Peck]

Can we confirm that HHK only got nerfed by 25%? It feels a lot more.

[Larethan]

While this is something to celebrate, I have to take a step back and state that pathing in zones like Infected Paw is so bad that any amount of ZEM may still not be worth hunting there. From what I remember, it's almost a guarantee that every mob in zone will train after going through the double doors to bridge, and they do see invis.

[zaneosak]

Can we confirm that HHK only got nerfed by 25%? It feels a lot more.


I believe rogean worded his post confusingly. He means that the zone is SET TO X amount. Not increased by.

For example that high keep would be set to negative 25% baseline. Which is a base xp penalty. Kind of like lake of I'll omen. The new zem in HHK would be 56.25. Down from 150. 75 is 0 bonus, normal xp.

[Peck]

I believe rogean worded his post confusingly. He means that the zone is SET TO X amount. Not increased by.

For example that high keep would be set to negative 25% baseline. Which is a base xp penalty. Kind of like lake of I'll omen. The new zem in HHK would be 56.25. Down from 150. 75 is 0 bonus, normal xp.

Then that would make sense, because HHK is noticeable now.

[damianicus]

Was Karnor’s changed?

[Trinost]

While this is something to celebrate, I have to take a step back and state that pathing in zones like Infected Paw is so bad that any amount of ZEM may still not be worth hunting there. From what I remember, it's almost a guarantee that every mob in zone will train after going through the double doors to bridge, and they do see invis.


There at double doors LOOK UP there is a bridge....pathing mob there is what causes trains. Otherwise zone is fine. In past clerics healed through walls but otherwise meh.

[Larethan]

There at double doors LOOK UP there is a bridge....pathing mob there is what causes trains. Otherwise zone is fine. In past clerics healed through walls but otherwise meh.

Should probably report this as a bug because the entire zone is essentially off limits due to that MOB.

[Trinost]

I believe rogean worded his post confusingly. He means that the zone is SET TO X amount. Not increased by.

For example that high keep would be set to negative 25% baseline. Which is a base xp penalty. Kind of like lake of I'll omen. The new zem in HHK would be 56.25. Down from 150. 75 is 0 bonus, normal xp.

No where did I read anything you just wrote. They nvr said hey we took hhk to base THEN dropped it 25%...only that they dropped it 25% aka 150-25= 125. Magic (pow...bam...math...). What you are saying is confusing people.

[Trinost]

Should probably report this as a bug because the entire zone is essentially off limits due to that MOB.

Not a bug. Works as intended. Dude paths from two points and if unlucky and didnt look up to make sure he wasn't above ya, you caused a massive train. Dungeons are supposed to be a challenge and take bit of thought. But ppl seem to forget to look around sometimes like UP LOL. So yeah just make sure to look up wait for him to not be there or get invs at entrance like guk. Simple stuff. Rhey don't see invis btw, likely bridge dude saw you b4 invis spell cast. Ran through here plenty with invis.

[bivouac]

I copied over P99 Wiki's consolidated ZEM list from EQMac to a spreadsheet and calculated the new ZEMs presuming the wiki values are correct for P99 too. Red highlighted rows seem like they were probably incorrect for P99 because they break the ZEM pattern of similar zones. (open the spoiler to view)

https://i.imgur.com/3IbEjzM.png

[Trinost]

I copied over P99 Wiki's consolidated ZEM list from EQMac to a spreadsheet and calculated the new ZEMs presuming the wiki values are correct for P99 too. Red highlighted rows seem like they were probably incorrect for P99 because they break the ZEM pattern of similar zones. (open the spoiler to view)

https://i.imgur.com/3IbEjzM.png

What's with the hhk one? The math is wrong.
150-25=125

Also they gave exact numbers and didnt say to round things anywhere. So solb isn't 75. Yeah all your neg numbers are off. What's with your spreadsheet?

Nope noticed your numbers for ct and others off too. Cannot add in your own values. Put it way it was told by dev's. 1+1=2. Real addition here common.

[Larethan]

Not a bug. Works as intended. Dude paths from two points and if unlucky and didnt look up to make sure he wasn't above ya, you caused a massive train. Dungeons are supposed to be a challenge and take bit of thought. But ppl seem to forget to look around sometimes like UP LOL. So yeah just make sure to look up wait for him to not be there or get invs at entrance like guk. Simple stuff. Rhey don't see invis btw, likely bridge dude saw you b4 invis spell cast. Ran through here plenty with invis.

Don't remember classic being that way and if you think groups are gonna know exactly what to do with this obscure situation then we will continue seeing Splitpaw empty, because they won't know. If the team is wanting to make zones more accessible with ZEM then I think it might be worth considering alterations to pathing / mob behavior as well in the most extreme cases.

[Trinost]

Don't remember classic being that way and if you think groups are gonna know exactly what to do with this obscure situation then we will continue seeing Splitpaw empty, because they won't know. If the team is wanting to make zones more accessible with ZEM then I think it might be worth considering alterations to pathing / mob behavior as well in the most extreme cases.

There is a guide on splitpaw and it was that way in classic. It is explained in the wiki guide..ppl don't fight there because zem sucked. Now it is better.

[larper99]

What's with the hhk one? The math is wrong.
150-25=125

Also they gave exact numbers and didnt say to round things anywhere. So solb isn't 75. Yeah all your neg numbers are off. What's with your spreadsheet?

Nope noticed your numbers for ct and others off too. Cannot add in your own values. Put it way it was told by dev's. 1+1=2. Real addition here common.

No, 150 * 0.75 = 112.5, round to 113.

You don't add percentages. You multiply by them.

All of the ones that used to be 75% were increased BY 33%. So, 75 * 1.33 = 100. Bivouac's table uses that method on every entry, and I believe it is the correct method, since all of the numbers come out so nicely rounded.

So, basically, it looks like they got rid of that silly "75 = 100%" thing, and just made baseline 100. So, HHK has a ZEM of 112.5, which is an even 1/8th bonus, or 12.5% bonus.

[Trinost]

Splitpaw guide link (https://wiki.project1999.com/Playing4peace2%27s_Splitpaw_Made_Easier_Guide)

[Isildur]

Need to look at velious zones. So bad right now. So difficult, should be high reward? Maybe I'm wrong. Would be cool to setup an actual velks group and get rewarded for it exp wise.

[avarantor]

As a longtime leveler in HHK I feel as if my heart has just been pulled from my chest :) Seriously who is gonna run to Perma everytime they want to get a group? Lower Guk got the shaft too.. Why?

[Trinost]

No, 150 * 0.75 = 112.5, round to 113.

You don't add percentages. You multiply by them.

All of the ones that used to be 75% were increased BY 33%. So, 75 * 1.33 = 100. Bivouac's table uses that method on every entry, and I believe it is the correct method, since all of the numbers come out so nicely rounded.

So, basically, it looks like they got rid of that silly "75 = 100%" thing, and just made baseline 100. So, HHK has a ZEM of 112.5, which is an even 1/8th bonus, or 12.5% bonus.

I don't see his table uses so could be correct. I will look more into this when I get home but from what I read it was simple increase and yes you do add if from same base aka 150/75-25/75=125/75 though ofc that would be improper fractions I showed however that is an example. 75 is base zem

[Man0warr]

Mobs in Plane of Fear are falling under world, which wasn't happening before this patch supposedly fixed such an issue...

[Benanov]

Ogre Guards are also teleporting.

[Dragonblood]

Been at shralok for the past 3 hours and he hasn't spawned yet.

[Aurelius88]

Ogre guards in Feerrott are teleporting ontop of me when I am trying to kite them. It happens after one of the following events:

1) The guard gets far enough away from me that my spells wont reach anymore.
2) The guard will "disappear" for a few seconds, then teleport ontop of me.

This was happening in about 50-60% of the pulls I was doing. I was pathing up and down the riverbank on "Bouncer Hurd".

[Rogean]

There's nothing confusing or badly worded about my post at all. The confusion is being caused by people trying to compare this to player-determined values. I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those.

Every zone has an EXP Modifier which factors into the EXP Formula. Let's say a zone previously had a 0.4 modifier. If we moved it up to 0.6, that is a 50% increase in the modifier. We do not publish the specific values, as it's part of the mystery and should be discovered by the players how each zone stacks up.

[Christina.]

Im not currently playing but from my reads of the forums this is exactly what that green server needed. There are so many complaints about overcrowding but me not being bias to how leveling goes on a new server...its really because they want to xp in the "go to zones"...we all know the route lol.. Now players will be forced to go utilize all those zones out there! Great time to play EQ right now, I'd be excited about the change lol

[Christina.]

Yeah! Spread out you filthy animals!

:cool:

[Tuurin]

[QUOTE=Rogean;3102180]There's nothing confusing or badly worded about my post at all. The confusion is being caused by people trying to compare this to player-determined values. I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those.

Every zone has an EXP Modifier which factors into the EXP Formula. Let's say a zone previously had a 0.4 modifier. If we moved it up to 0.6, that is a 50% increase in the modifier. We do not publish the specific values, as it's part of the mystery and should be discovered by the players how each zone stacks up.[/QU

Not sure what the point would be in posting the modified ZEM values but being mysterious about what the base values are...

[Rogean]

Not sure what the point would be in posting the modified ZEM values but being mysterious about what the base values are...

If you take X * Y = Z and I tell you what Y is, it still doesn't tell you what X or Z is.

[Pretzelle]

Rogean could you take a look at pathing through Kael (and VP, probably)? Try to pull a giant from arena to WL and watch the insanity.

[Rogean]

Rogean could you take a look at pathing through Kael (and VP, probably)? Try to pull a giant from arena to WL and watch the insanity.

I cannot. That is a Haynar thing. Continue posting feedback in the bug forum threads and he will be looking them over.

[ChooChoo Train]

Love it love it.

[loramin]

I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those.

My understanding was that they came from early/flawed EQ Emu numbers, based on EQMac or some other unclassic source ... but they pre-date me, so I I'm not even sure exactly. The idea was that at least having some semi-accurate numbers was better than none at all, but they've always been known to be not fully accurate (with exactly how "not fully" also being unknown).

I think Dolalin might know (this came up in a thread once before, but I can't find it).

[larper99]

If you take X * Y = Z and I tell you what Y is, it still doesn't tell you what X or Z is.
But you have clarified that bivouac applied the changes (Y) to the assumed values (X) correctly.

[Daloon]

Gozzrem still warps the same

[avarantor]

Did anyone on Blue actually need this? was this change done just for green?

[Daloon]

.

[avarantor]

Sorry... still pissed about Highkeep! lol!

[Trinost]

Put that way with the current way the experience bars are set up it is quite hard to judge (discover) exactly the X and there for the Z even knowing Y. I have seen some better exp bars in later expansions. Sadly no way to know atm if not leveling something maybe on blue with vel unlocked to truly discover much exp is gain for each mob in each zone. At least from my understanding. So going by the information on wiki is actually the best we currently have.

[mcoy]

Thank you devs for working to return the mystery to a game that far too many of us know too much about! We should not know where the best places to go are from the beginning - get out there and explore, take notes, and communicate with other players and share your findings! We're in their world now!

-Mcoy

[Christina.]

Thank you devs for working to return the mystery to a game that far too many of us know too much about! We should not know where the best places to go are from the beginning - get out there and explore, take notes, and communicate with other players and share your findings! We're in their world now!

-Mcoy

[zaneosak]

I want to update the wiki but feel like the values are up in the air. Perhaps I will add a column for increase they gave and just let it play out. You can see the list here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zqc0zJtrK_JPHA_4Y_c9W7c5aLr4gciZauH0uBsO2q4/edit?usp=sharing

Assuming the old ZEMs on the wiki were close. The new best ZEMs in the Game:

Permafrost Caverns
Kedge Keep
Runnyeye Citadel
The Hole
Infected Paw
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule
Gorge of King Xorbb
Estate of Unrest

I take it with a grain of salt about the Cities of Kaladim, Oggok, and Felwithe getting a 33% bump from 100 to 133, I think it actually went from 75 to 100 and the wiki values were wrong before. Oggok felt like it had a huge xp buff already. I think alot of the city values on the wiki were incorrect before. Makes more sense that all cities would be the same ZEM.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

This is absolutely fantastic! Hopefully this will pull some groups out of the extremely overcamped dungeons to go XP in the outdoor zones!

Thanks again, devs!

[Molitoth]

This also caused mobs to fall through bridge at VP entrance,

Thank you. Can Vulak's AE be fixed next?

Make Vulak great again.

[bradsamma]

Feared PC's are now warping to the zone's evac spot from time to time.

[Philistine]

Ok can u give us an idea of what zones been changed this won't help if we don't know people going to still be at the same places

I thought the same thing, but then noticed there's a little "spoiler" button on the post that shows all the changed. I'd go have another look!

[Faxi]

fucking love this. so excited to play through some of these zones now with friends. rather than just going back once i outlevel them just for nostalgia or easymode loot farming. almost a fresh new game now. THANK YOU

[Asteria]

Thanks for the updates and everything to keep these servers going! :)

[MaCtastic]

Thank you. Can Vulak's AE be fixed next?

Make Vulak great again.

That fix wasn’t in the budget; maybe after Kunark release?

[Dolalin]

I think Dolalin might know

This is how the EQEmu ZEMs were determined, via a client memory dump in 2003:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3068802&postcount=15

[ChooChoo Train]

I want to update the wiki but feel like the values are up in the air. Perhaps I will add a column for increase they gave and just let it play out. You can see the list here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zqc0zJtrK_JPHA_4Y_c9W7c5aLr4gciZauH0uBsO2q4/edit?usp=sharing

Assuming the old ZEMs on the wiki were close. The new best ZEMs in the Game:

Permafrost Caverns
Kedge Keep
Runnyeye Citadel
The Hole
Infected Paw
Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule
Gorge of King Xorbb
Estate of Unrest

I take it with a grain of salt about the Cities of Kaladim, Oggok, and Felwithe getting a 33% bump from 100 to 133, I think it actually went from 75 to 100 and the wiki values were wrong before. Oggok felt like it had a huge xp buff already. I think alot of the city values on the wiki were incorrect before. Makes more sense that all cities would be the same ZEM.

You need to fix your spread sheet, it says unrest xp got decreased not increased!

[loramin]

This is how the EQEmu ZEMs were determined, via a client memory dump in 2003:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3068802&postcount=15

Thank you, that was exactly the post I was thinking of (but couldn't find)! :)

If anyone is curious why the wiki numbers are so off (in some cases), that post has the explanation/history.

[Baler]

Power leveling other players just became easier.

Thank You

[zaneosak]

You need to fix your spread sheet, it says unrest xp got decreased not increased!

Fixed it. Missed a minus sign there- appreciate it.

[tyrant49333]

Please unroot the dragons and bring back FTE lockouts next!

[Demonstorm]

Please unroot the dragons and bring back FTE lockouts next!

And also, bring warders back

[PL_Barton]

Would love to see some exp modifier for ToFS / Crystal Cavers / Kaesora / Dalnir......those are dead zones that could use some serious exp love.

[MaCtastic]

And also, bring warders back

+1

[Tist]

Wow. A much needed and long overdue change. Stuff like splitpaw is so much more difficult than unrest/highkeep with half the xp.

[Fammaden]

There's nothing confusing or badly worded about my post at all. The confusion is being caused by people trying to compare this to player-determined values. I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those.

Every zone has an EXP Modifier which factors into the EXP Formula. Let's say a zone previously had a 0.4 modifier. If we moved it up to 0.6, that is a 50% increase in the modifier. We do not publish the specific values, as it's part of the mystery and should be discovered by the players how each zone stacks up.

Everyone's ignoring this post and just in awe of big numbers like "88%", but 88% of .001 would still be a jack shit ZEM above the baseline value. So the playerbase still doesn't have anything close to the whole picture as we don't really know the baselines or the specific ZEM's on top of them.

So if we know a zone was already barely better than baseline, something like 88% might not make it suddenly better than Unrest if the modifier to Unrest was still much much higher in the first place.

[Old_PVP]

Awesome patch!

[Rogean]

Everyone's ignoring this post and just in awe of big numbers like "88%", but 88% of .001 would still be a jack shit ZEM above the baseline value. So the playerbase still doesn't have anything close to the whole picture as we don't really know the baselines or the specific ZEM's on top of them.

So if we know a zone was already barely better than baseline, something like 88% might not make it suddenly better than Unrest if the modifier to Unrest was still much much higher in the first place.

https://i.imgur.com/9bryj6j.gif

[BlackBellamy]

The wiki ZEM pages should just be completely removed, they cause way way too much confusion. Their entire basis is a guess, and given that "I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those" maybe it's time for them to just go.

[loramin]

The wiki ZEM pages should just be completely removed, they cause way way too much confusion. Their entire basis is a guess, and given that "I don't know where the values on the wiki come from, and we do not reference those" maybe it's time for them to just go.

I think that's likely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

We know the wiki is based on 2003 numbers (thanks Dolalin), and we also know that they're off mainly because Verant changed ZEMs in 2002 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3053438&postcount=30).

But Verant would have had to have massively changed the numbers for them to be worthless here. Even if they changed every zone an average of 10% ZEM ... I'd still rather have a number in the wiki that's on average within 10% deviation of the right number, than have no numbers whatsoever.

With no numbers, the number you have to use is a guess, and that guess will likely be for 100% ZEM. So in short, while no one knows exactly how wrong the wiki numbers are, as long as they are closer to the real numbers than they are to 100% (ie. the number you'd guess), they're more useful existing than not.

What I think the real solution would be is for people to start collecting data (good, consistent data, like kiling a mob of the same level in the same zone over and over). The more data points people submit, and the more stats nerds get involved in analyzing them, the sooner we can start finding P99-accurate (or at least closer to accurate) numbers.

[Whyt]

really sorry if this has been answered but i was skimming through the post for certain verbiage and may have missed it ... do these new ZEMs apply to blue server as well? thanks for your time folks.

[Fammaden]

You'll notice that there's zones that aren't on green yet listed, and generally every update unless specified will be across blue/green/red.

[Whyt]

You'll notice that there's zones that aren't on green yet listed, and generally every update unless specified will be across blue/green/red.

Roger, thanks for the update and apologies for the DD fail.

[douglas1999]

Yesssss! Suck a cheetah's dick, HighKeep

[Gatorsmash]

First off I'll say I like the zem changes, as someone who actually used those zones like perma and runny; I always wanted to xp there regularly but couldn't justify it vs higher zem zones all the time and would fall behind if I didnt.

But gotta just say, people have been banned or hammered with the 'prove it isn't classic' nonsense or the famous 'not-classic' over the last 10 years complaining about this very subject. Its disappointing to see that suddenly everyone is on board with some common sense changes now that the population has jumped.

[Kanuvan]

health and balance of the game > #nochanges

[Fammaden]

Yesssss! Suck a cheetah's dick, HighKeep

Highkeep is perfectly fine still and remains great xp. You're going to be disappointed if you were hoping to see this phenomenon die.

[PL_Barton]

So from a coding aspect, what does implementing AA's require? It would definitely trivialize current content so something would have to change such as implementing higher zones or making some zones harder?

[Gustoo]

It requires playing on a different server or better yet, playing on live server.

[sonicjoose]

This is awesome thanks guys!

[Dulu]

Nice to see The Hole, Permafrost, and CT all getting some love.

Some of my favorite places to level.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

The increased ZEM in outdoor zones has been fantastic! Great work devs!

[Vizax_Xaziv]

But gotta just say, people have been banned or hammered with the 'prove it isn't classic' nonsense or the famous 'not-classic' over the last 10 years complaining about this very subject. Its disappointing to see that suddenly everyone is on board with some common sense changes now that the population has jumped.

Yup! Absolute hypocrites for the most part! Next thing that should be looked at are the Hybrid XP Penalties. Cuz em down from 40% to 20% or something like that.

[salimoneus]

The increased ZEM in outdoor zones has been fantastic! Great work devs!

Can you really tell a significant difference?

[Mavinor]

Since around when this patch was implemented, I cannot remember, I have noticed myself and others crashing when zoning far more often. Could there be any connection?

[OuterChimp]

Is paineel even in Green yet?

[BlackBellamy]

Can you really tell a significant difference?

Oh definitely. When I used to farm ct and took too many exp deaths I would go to guk and farm the undead tower for a while to get my exp back cause guk was way way better. After the zem change I would just stay in ct and watch my exp top off so much quicker.

Going back to guk, now strictly for the weather, women and the weed, sticky green frogs.

[salimoneus]

Oh definitely. When I used to farm ct and took too many exp deaths I would go to guk and farm the undead tower for a while to get my exp back cause guk was way way better. After the zem change I would just stay in ct and watch my exp top off so much quicker.

Going back to guk, now strictly for the weather, women and the weed, sticky green frogs.

Aye, they are tasty, but not much meat on them bones. I need big beautiful chunks to sink my chompers into otherwise I don't sleep very well. And Sal isn't very happy when he doesn't get his sleep.

[Jukken]

I must be blind, but where do I find the link to the files to download?

[Tudana]

Not seeing the warrens on the list, does it have a ZEM?

[jolanar]

Not seeing the warrens on the list, does it have a ZEM?

Only classic zones are changed here. Warrens was added after.

Curious to see how Kunark/Velious zones might be changed in the future. Some definitely need some loving.

[loramin]

Curious to see how Kunark/Velious zones might be changed in the future. Some definitely need some loving.

One important thing to keep in mind (as I imagine R&N will if they revamp ZEMs in Velious) is that Velious zones have a lower ZEM by design.

Remember, Kunark took people to 60, but Velious didn't introduce any new level cap whatsoever: the expansion was about loot (well, and getting faction ... to get loot). I'm not trying to say people weren't meant to XP in Velious (of course they were), but the lower ZEMs/ better loot (relative to Kunak) reflected the expansion's goal.

[ld420]

I would like to see low ZEM Kunark zones like LOIO get some love, and Velious zones get a ZEM boost, to spread out the population more. Kinda nuts to see the high ZEM zones full of folks while less ZEM zones stay empty.

Of course currently with all of us sitting at home, every zone is crowded on Green atm =P

[Fammaden]

I'm sure no blue player wants to hear this, but the Hole ZEM is probably overboard now. It was already really good and now its basically trivializing the 51 - 60 curve, which was always a trademark big grind and big achievement in EQ. Really should revisit that one prior to hole launching on green IMO, let blue have fun with it for the time being maybe, but this doesn't bode well for a healthy Kunark experience on green.

[uygi]

Bump because very curious about ZEM adjustments beyond "classic" zones... even though The Hole doesn't open during classic era...

Plus the Blue people probably wanna know.

[Olesideburns]

I'm loving the changes to zem, I really like that the Gorge of King Xorbb is pretty active and a great lvl 20ish place to level.

I tried running out to Permafrost, and it's still pretty dead, I would worry that permafrost may still be so empty because it's such a long run to get there.

From the spreadsheet there's an interesting grouping.

I wonder with Permafrost if it's lack of close ports still makes it hard to get groups at it? Would adding Surefall Glade port in make Permafrost a little more attractive to groups ?

[Siberious]

Permafrost is less attractive to groups because mobs heal through walls. It's a fun zone and good xp. But for smaller groups it can be a huge pain with so many healing mobs. Also kings room pathing trains is a real thing, it's simply quite dangerous.