Is it time to bring /list to Blue?

[Izmael]

So it looks to me that the /list feature works better than anticipated. Instead of a huge clusterf*ck I expected, it actually serves its purpose and works quite nicely:

- The casuals get a shot at the items, by getting their wife / buddy / etc do the shifts with them. Or simply developing a micro-nap technique, if they don't want to share account info.

- The neckbeards still get the lion's share of the items by teaming, lawyerquesting, angleshooting, risking bans for boxing / screensharing / general bearding.

Seems to me everyone is content.


Maybe it's time to think of extending the /list feature to Blue? It's not classic, but if it's classic enough for Green, it's can only be classic enough for Blue. Stormfeather, Lodizal, Fungi king come to mind. I'm sure we can think of other interesting candidates (Vaniki? Quillmane? Ragefire? Innoruuk's earth staff? Green / white scale? Spirit wracked urn?)

/lists would greatly reduce CS needs for these camps AND add the bonus of having a sort of a game inside a game that these /lists turned out to be. That's some custom content Blue is starved for.


Discuss.

[Ripqozko]

Nah

[indiscriminate_hater]

Nah

[magnetaress]

how do they even work i have never /listed

[Tilien]

I'll be /listing Narandi's head, thanks all for the free pixels.

[bonesaw]

Nah

[DKN]

No thanks. Keep that on the Green beta server

[Thomacles]

A resounding no.

[Jimjam]

how do they even work i have never /listed

Basically it gathers all the neck beards in to a few select spots for extended periods so everyone else doesn't need to deal with their shenanigans.

[loramin]

110% yes! But it can't be Green's "/list 1.0", where not sleeping for days makes you a "winner". I think it's the details of that system that are scarring everyone here into saying "no" (and for the record I too am against "not sleeping to win Blue mobs").

IMHO the future of /list has to be a 2.0 version, which works a lot more like player agreements ... in the sense that every interested player gets an equal and fair chance at the mob (no monopoly of the sleepless). In other words, future /list versions should boil down to luck + patience = reward, not endless afk checks (just like any other contested rare resource in classic EQ).

But to be clear, whatever its flaws, I think the devs did get a lot right on /list 1.0. For one thing, they recognized that we players are resistant to change (and we whine a lot ;)), so they only "dipped their toe" in the water with it at first on Green. Blue's "experiment in automated GMing" should start the same, and only be for the mobs that cause the most drama for GMs, but are also already "lists" in a sense: I'm thinking maybe Hadden, OOT Ancient Cyclops, Lodizal, and Stormfeather?

But someday, once all the rough edges are worked out, I'd even love to see /list 3.0 (or 4.0, or ...) tackle the player agreement mobs and other "wait your turn" mobs (like say that Enchanter epic bottleneck mob). We only have so many volunteer GMs, and they don't need to waste their time managing something a computer can manage. Just as importantly, an official system could improve the unofficial systems that exist today.

For instance, it could make it so you have to actually do your own killing for Scout. The current "force everyone to help" system is nice in some ways, but forcing a bunch of strangers to help was not a thing in classic EverQuest (indeed, the best quests were meant to do the opposite and force you to make friends with people to complete them). If everyone had to bring their own force, Scout would stop being a "lottery of near-BiS gear for the lucky": you'd still need some luck, but you'd only be "rolling" against others who have a force, not everyone on server who wants awesome loot handed to them.

[Jimjam]

Really the automation should be applied to whatever wastes the most of CSR time. I think reducing GM inconvenience/tedium is more important than increasing player convenience. By reducing tedious work loads for GMs they will have more time available for things that can't be resolved with automation.

/armchair

[magnetaress]

Really the automation should be applied to whatever wastes the most of CSR time. I think reducing GM inconvenience/tedium is more important than increasing player convenience. By reducing tedious work loads for GMs they will have more time available for things that can't be resolved with automation.

/armchair

This post provides details regarding the /list system. The system will be hitting Beta today. There are currently only 3 item drops that are attached to this system:

Guise of the Deceiver: Level 35, Distance 150, Z Distance 40, 1 Week Lockout.

Manastone: Level 35, Distance 200, Z Distance 30, 1 Week Lockout.

JBoots: Level 25, Distance 200, 1 Week Lockout.

Each list has a minimum level noted above. You cannot join the list if you are under that level. It also has a distance above. You must be within that distance to the mob that drops the item to join the list, and you must stay within that distance for the duration of your wait. For the lists that also have a Z Distance, you must also stay within that Z difference from that location as well (For example, in Guk Bottom, going down the hall and around the corner from the Ass/Sup Room is within 150 distance, and still within 40 Z Difference. Going several floors below the room will also be within 150 distance, but not within 40 Z difference, and you will be out of range.)

Upon leaving the range of the list camp, whether you zone out, die, or walk out of range, you will be notified that you have done so and will be given 15 Minutes to return to the area. Once re-entering the area, you will be notified that you are back in range. Going back in range does NOT reset your "out of range" timer, but rather it will start replenishing at a rate of 1 second per 12 seconds spent back in the camp. This means that if you spend 10 minutes out of the camp, and you return to the camp for 10 minutes, and then leave for another 10 minutes, the following will happen: Your OOR Timer will have decayed from 15 Minutes to 5 Minutes. Your 10 minutes spent back in the camp will have added only 50 seconds to your remaining 5 minutes. 5 Minutes and 50 Seconds into your next 10 minutes out of the camp, you will be notified that you have been removed from the list.

In order to join the list, simply enter the vicinity of the camp, and type /list. If you meet the requirements, you will be asked to confirm that you'd like to join the list. The confirmation will also tell you how many people are currently in line ahead of you. You can see your position in the list at any time by typing /list while in the vicinity of the camp.

While on the list and within range, you will be subject to AFK Checks. These are most commonly a simple dialog box to confirm, however there are several other types of confirmations with smaller chances of appearing that will require different types of inputs to confirm that you are not AFK. If you do not respond to an AFK Check by the time the next one is requested, you will be removed from the list.

The list is stored persistently in a database. If at any time the server goes down for maintenance, or the zone is rebooted, you will maintain your position on the list. When the zone starts up and is accessible again, all out of range timers are reset and extended to 30 minutes.

When the item that you are on a list for has dropped, and you are position 1, you will be given a notification that the item has dropped. If you are not in range at the time, the system will skip you (and continue skipping people until it finds a list player in range). Anyone skipped will still maintain their position, as long as they return to range within their OOR Timer. The person awarded will be given exclusive permission to loot the corpse and all items on it. Nobody else will have permission to loot the corpse, even the player(s) that were merited the experience. The corpse will also not unlock like normal after a period of time. If the player who was at the top of the list does not loot the item before the corpse decays, the item rots. The player was still removed from the list and given a lockout when the mob was killed. Lockouts are indicated above, which means that once you have been granted an item from a /list, you cannot rejoin the same list for that period of time on that character.

Since no one answered my question, I went ahead and did the work and found the answer:

Put simply this is an absolutely amazing and brilliant piece of coding done by Rogaen and the fellow P99 staff. And props to them for not going crazy with /lists everywhere.

I feel like this should be extended, perhaps to some of the longest and hardest camps. People who wait months for an item deserve to list for it, if they are in range and can kill it.

I feel like lists are just as classic as CSR. We can't have 10 CSR per server working in shifts, so here we are.

Make 'red99' the place where lists don't exist... except maybe in the most extreme cases.