Rangers? Rangers! Rangers.

[quellren]

Against my better judgement I'll start this here, and hope some decent discussion happens before it gets banished to the R&F dungeon by assclowns who's only input is 'Good for the DT'. Save yourself the key strokes if you're that guy.

So, I've always been curious about Rangers. They seemed like a great class on paper, and I have zero heartburn with one in my groups. The seem to do pretty much everything well enough to get the job done. They track and pull, they DPS well, they snare/root park, they offtank, they spot heal... they give me foraged food and water...
So I rolled one and he's been a blast to play. But now he's in his mid 20's and I'm running into the stereotypical Ranger-hate. I've recently soloed alot because my /ooc LFG's go unanswered. Even in outdoor zones where tracking, harmony and pulling is key.

I chatted up a few rangers, all in their 50's, and almost every one of them painted a dreary picture of 'get good weapons and learn to use a bow, because all you'll do is solo light blues and get made fun of".... yet they themselves were 52, 53, even 57... If it's so bad, why play?

So my TL;DR question is: Where's the disconnect? Why is public perception so much different than what I've personally experienced on both sides of the coin?

[Eldaran]

I typically played a Cleric back in live but also had a ranger that never made it past 20. I rolled a Ranger as my first class here on P99 so I'm really interested to see where this thread goes. I was hoping to be able to have fun with this class as I really enjoy it from my limited experience with it. I could always go to a Paladin or Cleric if Rangers get no love in groups later on.

[Doors]

I like rangers. Had a ranger main on live years ago and multiple ranger twinks throughout my earlier days playing.

I dunno how they're setup with archery on p99 but they get a bad rap here. I think I'll eventually roll one but playing a ranger before AAs went in with endless quiver was always a pain in the ass.

[Eldaran]

I really wanted to get involved with a guild and do high end stuff that I never got to when I was a teenager. Am I gonna have to re roll a different class? I'd rather do it sooner than later.

[Supaskillz]

Rangers dps about the same as warriors, if you want dps you will always pick a rogue or monk over them for sure, and most likely would also take a necro/mage/wizard/warrior since they will all do comparable dps without bringing the nasty shared hybrid xp penalty.

If you need a tank, you will always take a paladin, warrior, or sk over a ranger. For that matter I would take a bard first also since they tank about the same and their utility is greater in other aspects than a ranger.

I have grouped with rangers who are outstanding at snaring and root parking for ghetto CC, but of course if you have an ench or bard they can do CC in a much better way that also deals with casters, and in some camps this strategy is very limited because of the tight quarters.

Tracking is nice to have but matters little when camps are well established. I will take a ranger or bard pulling for me in a crowded KC where everyone fights over every pull, but most places tracking is simply not needed in a group.

Basically being the jack of all trades is not something that is useful in a group, b/c any roll you might fill is done better by someone else. People also are biased against them because they bring an exp penalty and will often prefer to fight with 5 until someone else is lfg.

[bomaroast]

Lots of poopsockers on this server that can't handle being any less than the best. Monks and Sk's all around!

I'll happily take a ranger in my group any day of the week.

[Molitoth]

Rangers dps about the same as warriors, if you want dps you will always pick a rogue or monk over them for sure, and most likely would also take a necro/mage/wizard/warrior since they will all do comparable dps without bringing the nasty shared hybrid xp penalty.

If you need a tank, you will always take a paladin, warrior, or sk over a ranger. For that matter I would take a bard first also since they tank about the same and their utility is greater in other aspects than a ranger.

I have grouped with rangers who are outstanding at snaring and root parking for ghetto CC, but of course if you have an ench or bard they can do CC in a much better way that also deals with casters, and in some camps this strategy is very limited because of the tight quarters.

Tracking is nice to have but matters little when camps are well established. I will take a ranger or bard pulling for me in a crowded KC where everyone fights over every pull, but most places tracking is simply not needed in a group.

Basically being the jack of all trades is not something that is useful in a group, b/c any roll you might fill is done better by someone else. People also are biased against them because they bring an exp penalty and will often prefer to fight with 5 until someone else is lfg.

This nailed it.

I pretty much solo'd or duo'd my way from 36-50 in kedge at a reasonable rate of xp as a ranger and I loved the classic experience on p99.

As one of the best equiped rangers on the server along with a good reputation and a guild with many members it did not help my cause.
The first week of kunark I spent 10-12 hours a day looking for a group without much success or finding a group and getting xp at a 40% difference than others. Netting 1 level in about 40 hours.
Considering the highest level ranger on the server is still only around level 57... you can see why it sucks to play the class. I'd say it would be a lot better after ridding of the hybrid penalties, but you won't find that on P99.

As for the class, its incredibly fun to play when you are in situation that doesn't require just hitting the auto attack button. If you have the spare time to sit around LFG, solo, or xp incredibly slow; go for it.

[Eldaran]

Blah... looks like i'm rolling a Pallly tonight. LOL :)

[YendorLootmonkey]

I would bet the 8 or 9 rangers that are actively still playing past level 51 are doing so because of a combination of 2 reasons: they played the class in Live and enjoyed it immensely (it got better after AAs were introduced), or because they already have a ton of playtime invested in their ranger.

It's a fun and versatile class if played well, but the server is full of min-maxers that want the best class for a particular role in their groups, as was said above.

However, if you get to raid, not a whole lot of competition on drops. Probably the only advantage right now. If you absolutely want to try a ranger from scratch, I would wait until Velious when they remove the class penalties and give rangers Panic Animal.

[quellren]

Well thanks for the info guys. What I'm getting in the early stages of this thread is that rolling a ranger to play as an alt because I'm sick of sitting at ZL /OOC'ing LFG for 3 hours as a necro was not a remedy to my situation. LoL.

I'll keep him on the back burner I guess, see how it goes.

[Troy]

I used to get groups on my ranger until I stopped playing months ago. I just attempted to restart this weekend and found that it's nigh impossible to get a group as a 35 ranger even with good gear. I'm thinking I'll probably just re-roll monk/rogue or quit again. Using backpacks full of arrows slowly kiting stuff in OT then running to FV and back (using SoW pots!) to make more arrows every hour is not worth doing. Perhaps if I were 45 and had a Tolan's bracer I'd feel differently. QQ

[Fryhole]

I really wanted to start a ranger on here, because I abandoned mine back on live in favor of a druid. Looking back though, I had my reasons.

The hybrid spells are just too far behind in rank compared to their parent class.
Lower defense & weapon skill caps (this may already have been patched, or is being addressed in the future)
SoW @ 39 (this changes to 30, but come on)
40% exp penalty (@#$%)
Bad rep - easily overcome, but still
No defined role - druid & bard can track, other classes can pull, (esp w/feign death), can't wear plate, extra DPS tied to mana (unlike backstab or flying kick)
No 'big' CD ability like lay hands or harm touch

[soup]

Making fun of rangers is pretty much the most important part of the classic experience. I consider making fun of rangers to be high priority. With that said though...

Rangers can bring a lot to the table. People HORRIBLY underestimate the power of groups that use a couple "multi role" or "versatile" classes rather than just using pure classes. Rangers can also do very well in smaller groups or duo situations and can do stuff people don't really think about. For example, I have a 48 monk and have found a ranger is a GREAT partner to duo with outdoors. High DPS + SoW + snare (monk intimidation + ranger snare = fear kiting) is pretty much all you need.

It seems people are starting to lose sight of where the "make fun of rangers lol!" ends and reality begins.

[soup]

either way though, rangers are gay, lolol

[baalzy]

Ranger down!

[xshayla701]

Good for the DT'

Minimal keystrokes necessary! :rolleyes:

Anyways, I've always thought rangers were cool, but then Kimmie went and rolled an effing ranger. I know that's not helpful, but do it!

[Dantes]

People are deathly afraid of the experience penalty, even if those fears are COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED they still will not group with a hybrid. People are stupid.

[loobusk]

Rangers dps about the same as warriors, if you want dps you will always pick a rogue or monk over them for sure, and most likely would also take a necro/mage/wizard/warrior since they will all do comparable dps without bringing the nasty shared hybrid xp penalty.

If you need a tank, you will always take a paladin, warrior, or sk over a ranger. For that matter I would take a bard first also since they tank about the same and their utility is greater in other aspects than a ranger.

I have grouped with rangers who are outstanding at snaring and root parking for ghetto CC, but of course if you have an ench or bard they can do CC in a much better way that also deals with casters, and in some camps this strategy is very limited because of the tight quarters.

Tracking is nice to have but matters little when camps are well established. I will take a ranger or bard pulling for me in a crowded KC where everyone fights over every pull, but most places tracking is simply not needed in a group.

Basically being the jack of all trades is not something that is useful in a group, b/c any roll you might fill is done better by someone else. People also are biased against them because they bring an exp penalty and will often prefer to fight with 5 until someone else is lfg.

Wow, after reading this, what's the point of playing a ranger besides wanting to be a sadist?

[Aadill]

Wow, after reading this, what's the point of playing a ranger besides wanting to be a sadist?

I don't like playing games on Easy.

[baalzy]

People are deathly afraid of the experience penalty, even if those fears are COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED they still will not group with a hybrid. People are stupid.
It's not necessairly that they're afraid of the penalty, SK's and paladins get invites just fine, bards too usually. It's just that why would you take on an xp penalty to get sub-optimum performance in a group member? Rangers can plug a hole in your party, but if you already have all your bases covered utility wise and all you need is unadulterated DPS, monks (who also have penalties, just not as heavy) or rogues (who get a bonus) will perform the job much better then a ranger. Hell, getting another warrior could do as much/more DPS as a ranger and they also bring an xp bonus (especially if the warrior has a few items that give good DPS stats and some non-proc'ing weapons to make use of).

People also don't understand how the penalty works, they think that it straight up nerfs 40% xp from the mob. Instead it means the people with penalties gain proportionally more XP from a mob then a non-penaltied toon of the same level.

To alleviate this, just make sure you invite hybrids that are a level or two lower than the average level of the rest of the party members.

[Molitoth]

Rangers are great in raid situations with Trueshot and Weaponshield... the problem is getting to that point.

I'd be glad to play this game again if I didn't have to waste my time leveling to 60.

[Earthguard]

I don't post a lot and hope this doesn't make me sound like a know-it-all, but here's a few ways I get by as a ranger.

Having friends, a solid guild, and developing a good reputation for yourself are ways to get groups quicker. That being said, people still do discriminate against Rangers, and yes, it's difficult to find a group at times.

I honestly believe that anyone can bring an unspoken element to a group if they play their class well enough. Rangers have no trouble holding aggro, and that comes in handy when the tank dies in group and no one else alive has taunt. Sure you can park mobs as monks and rogues beat them down, yet that method gets sloppy when you have more than 2 mobs.

Staying active is important. Make yourself worth the penalty you bring, in any way that you can. No one wants to bring on a ranger just to have them afk'ing every 5 minutes, not snaring mobs, and keeping a full mana bar. Hell, healing Canni'ing shamans or Liching necros is a good way to make yourself a little more useful. I cannot count the number of times I've patch healed a tank prior to CH landing to save their life, and possibly the group's lives, and that's with the regular "Healing" spell.

And of course, this goes for everyone not just rangers, don't be an annoying, bitchy douche. Even enchanters/clerics/tanks don't get groups due to their personality in group, but try and make sure that when people group with you it's an enjoyable experience (or not brought down by you). I can guarantee if you're a lootwhore, or a complaining mr. knowitall, it'll be almost impossible as a ranger to find a group.

Sure groups can get by without rangers, yet when you do find yourself in a group, playing your class well and doing the "little things" will go a long way.

Also we out damage warriors damnit!

[Bubbles]

However, if you get to raid, not a whole lot of competition on drops. Probably the only advantage right now. If you absolutely want to try a ranger from scratch, I would wait until Velious when they remove the class penalties and give rangers Panic Animal.

This is huger than people realize. And we're not only talking raid drops.

Incredibly powerful ranger weapons (Woodsman Staff, Silver Swiftblade, BTCs, Green Jade Broadswords, etc...) are sold at bargain basement prices (or flat out given away) simply from the immense lack of demand. Ranger items with procs are even cheaper, less demand..

Ranger armor? Well, unlike the monk class, Ranger Tolans is also way beyond dirt cheap and pretty dang useful (snare on glorves, Dot on arms, Camo on helm/boots, etc.. You can be a step beyond planar by your teens for the most part.. You simply cannot believe how cheap the stuff is.

Even in comparison to Mykolars the ranger drops are much more common and the supply blows demand out of the water.

So you are looking into a class that can buy planar caliber armor (minus bp/legs) for almost nothing, get a weapon armada to put in your bags/wield for next to nothing.

You can Snare, Sow (no need for jboots really, just buy potions till 39 if you hard up).. Root park, DD, Dot, Pull, Tank in XP groups... and TRACK (which is wtfawesome).

Yeah some min-maxers might whine about not needing you in a group, but if you play your toon well there will *always* be spots for you.

Your only downside is you really don't have an immediate void to fill in dungeons.. Outside of CoM/Karnors you're not going to have your harmonies + sow, and you'll basically be a dps with an xp penalty..

But you're vesatile in many ways too.. Can fear kite with a cleric, can pull in BW/Skyfire/OT/Dreads/etc to more than make up for it. You're a very effective combo with a necro who can both heal you and won't mind having you along cuz you're saving them snare mana and pulling for them.

And if you ever do raid, yeah, you're gonna be near the front of any loot line simply by default. And big guilds love trackers.

It's a long climb to 60 on one, but it's not like Veilous is due out in 20 minutes. It's a fun class.

p.s. - along with bards it's the best 'melee' type class for farming nameds in outdoor zones, allowing you some serious fredom to better yourself on the random times you can't immediately find a group.

[strupp]

well i rolled ranger for the simple reason because to me its still the most fun class to play, was on live for 4 years and is here too

But it can be hard especially if you start here alone without any old guildmembers or friends, i had the luck of having some friends when i began +finding some old buddies, still it can be a pain.
The Solo XP is damn near useless and a lot of Groups dont want you because, well, some dont know what a good ranger can do, some want to get the best XP possible etc.

To me the Jack of all Trades part isnt that bad, because even if all the important spots are filled its great to have a backup in case someone screws up or ist just plain bad, a good Ranger can help out in a big way.

Even with Friends and a good reputation and all it still can be hard sometimes, guess thats part of the (Classic-)Ranger Lifestyle, stuff that comes easy aint worth dyin....i mean fighting for!

[wehrmacht]

The TLDR version of thread is that hybrids are useless unless you play on a PvP server or trueshot + a good bow is available.

[gnomishfirework]

Rangers are great in groups. Great DPS, great utility.

Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

I think the hybrid penalty might be the problem. Head over to everfrost and do mammoths. Good exp/loot after 22 and panic animal.

[Aadill]

I think the hybrid penalty might be the problem. Head over to everfrost and do mammoths. Good exp/loot after 22 and panic animal.

Not till Velious.

[Fryhole]

Trueshot is Kunark, right? What about weaponshield? Does anyone know if the hybrid skill-cap increase is already live, or is that in an upcoming Velious patch?

[Sephrana]

I've always loved grouping with Rangers. We had a lot of rangers on my live server. i am always happy to group a ranger...

Sadly I normally only get on in the evenings to chat anymore due to other commitments
that make it hard for me to XP.

I am a level 36 bard. I will gladly group with any ranger :) Ranger + Bard is an effective duo :)

Send me a /tell in game sometime and we can XP it up :)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Trueshot is Kunark, right? What about weaponshield? Does anyone know if the hybrid skill-cap increase is already live, or is that in an upcoming Velious patch?

Hybrid discs are Velious.

[Aadill]

Yeah basically rangers got the double bow damage bonus in Kunark as well as the melee increases that every other melee class gets at 51+ (change in dmg bonus on weapons). Oh, and Jolt (JOLTJOLTJOLTJOLTJOLT). Discs for rangers don't happen till Velious, Panic Animal isn't till Velious.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Making fun of rangers is pretty much the most important part of the classic experience

Which is ironic because, if I recall correctly, geared-up level 50 rangers in classic were actually badass... the problems with our damage mitigation really didn't surface until post-50 in Kunark where shit hit a lot harder and the DPS gap widened substantially for the melee classes.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Yeah basically rangers got the double bow damage bonus in Kunark as well as the melee increases that every other melee class gets at 51+ (change in dmg bonus on weapons). Oh, and Jolt (JOLTJOLTJOLTJOLTJOLT) Discs for rangers don't happen till Velious, Panic Animal isn't till Velious.

Jolt disc? There's a jolt spell, and we get it in Kunark, just not at release. We get Cinder Jolt in Velious.

[Aadill]

Jolt disc? There's a jolt spell, and we get it in Kunark, just not at release. We get Cinder Jolt in Velious.

There is a period missing in that sentence!

PS I fixed it. <3

[YendorLootmonkey]

There is a period missing in that sentence!

PS I fixed it. <3

Good thing we have Tracking so you could hunt down and find that missing period!

[Fryhole]

WTB Velious patches, minus the content. /sigh

[Knightmare]

I used to get groups on my ranger until I stopped playing months ago. I just attempted to restart this weekend and found that it's nigh impossible to get a group as a 35 ranger even with good gear. I'm thinking I'll probably just re-roll monk/rogue or quit again. Using backpacks full of arrows slowly kiting stuff in OT then running to FV and back (using SoW pots!) to make more arrows every hour is not worth doing. Perhaps if I were 45 and had a Tolan's bracer I'd feel differently. QQ

Come on out to CoM some night this week, or even look for any of our guild that are grouping. We're already lvling as Iksar, some as Sk's, we're used to life with a massive xp penalty :eek:

Any penalty you add to a group like this will barely be felt lol.

Personally, I like to group with people, not classes. If you're fun and not a dickwad, you get an invite if at all possible. Regardless of class. I play to have fun with good people, the rest is gravy :)

[Jigga]

just get a windstriker or an oakwynd both are classic i believe

[Troy]

Come on out to CoM some night this week, or even look for any of our guild that are grouping. We're already lvling as Iksar, some as Sk's, we're used to life with a massive xp penalty :eek:

Any penalty you add to a group like this will barely be felt lol.

Personally, I like to group with people, not classes. If you're fun and not a dickwad, you get an invite if at all possible. Regardless of class. I play to have fun with good people, the rest is gravy :)

Cool I might do that. I've been reluctant to run to any of the Kunark dungeons since I don't know if I can solo in them while I sit LFG :o

At least in OT I can slowly kite stuff using bags and bags of arrows!

Question for rangers - Do you buy tank gear for the times you need to tank in groups? For the most part I'm geared toward DPS which makes me look even more weak when I'm asked to tank. I'm saving up cash and could potentially buy a pair of Jade Maces or Lamentations in the next week or so OR I could buy tank gear, but not both.

[Aadill]

just get a windstriker or an oakwynd both are classic i believe

Neither of those items are easy to acquire so I assume that was said with a bit of facetiousness.

Oakwind was a GM event BoTB item and was supposedly considered by the winners to be game-breaking. I'm sure they used it but apparently there was expression of discontent with something so overly powerful.

Windstriker was added with the implementation of PoSky and requires a raid force to take out the 8th island boss.

In the event of ranger-soloing it is slow and tedious but we have a lot of tools at our disposal to make it mana free, so it's endless except when you finally feel your eyes fall out of your skull.

[Aadill]

Question for rangers - Do you buy tank gear for the times you need to tank in groups? For the most part I'm geared toward DPS which makes me look even more weak when I'm asked to tank. I'm saving up cash and could potentially buy a pair of Jade Maces or Lamentations in the next week or so OR I could buy tank gear, but not both.

Buy DPS gear and /ooc rogue LFG.

Buy tank gear and end up soloing.

That's kinda where this thread is pointing.. heh. In all honestly, though, I went with as much HP as I could muster since I went Human instead of Wood Elf like most people do. I went with tank gear and never had an issue in leveling/grouping/tanking/DPSing.

[Sparkin]

That's the thing that isn't really mentioned here. Rangers can tank fine in groups doing rather easy content (where you have a lot of dps and mow down mobs at least a few levels below you). In cases like that, rangers are possibly the best tank to have in a group, because they will out dps SK's / Pals, and do slightly more damage than a war but hold aggro much more easily than them. So if you don't have a lazy healer who wants to heal as little as possible, rangers can arguably be the most effective tank for a group in certain instances in terms of getting fast exp.

Back in the days I can remember doing a fine job tanking any upper floor Seb camps, HS, etc. once the defense cap changes were made. I believe those cap changes were made near the start of Velious on live servers, but stuff like that is innate on this server cause they don't really mess with the caps here? Somebody correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think rangers have that extremely low defense cap here that they started with in Kunark on live servers. And that was as responsible as anything for giving rangers their reputation.

Duo tip - you said you were tired of being LFG as a necro? Look for lazy LFG necs to group with on your ranger. You pull, snare, melee, they fear, sic pet, and chill. Pretty decent exp for both, and it works all the way to 60.

[Anderdale]

Buy DPS gear and /ooc rogue LFG.

Buy tank gear and end up soloing.

That's kinda where this thread is pointing.. heh. In all honestly, though, I went with as much HP as I could muster since I went Human instead of Wood Elf like most people do. I went with tank gear and never had an issue in leveling/grouping/tanking/DPSing.

wow beat me to it. Seriously though, i post in /ooc rogue lfg. Usually can get a group that way. Usually no one can tell until i start healing. Btw if you use this tactic don't be wearing ivy etched or any green ranger shit.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I used to go /anon and wear mithril/silver plated leggings, hammer head helm, etc and /ooc warrior LFG.

It worked until mobs started hitting me and the cleric's superior heals replenished half of my HP bar.

[stormlord]

I don't know where the disconnect is either but...

Ranger gate is a smashing success. That one feature alone dwarfs all others.

So for me it's no contest. Never understood anybody that players other classes.

I can insta gate pretty much anytime anywhere. Nobody can beat that.

[Kender]

I don't know where the disconnect is either but...

Ranger gate is a smashing success. That one feature alone dwarfs all others.

So for me it's no contest. Never understood anybody that players other classes.

I can insta gate pretty much anytime anywhere. Nobody can beat that.

the real trick is gating with all your gear still

[quellren]

Which is ironic because, if I recall correctly, geared-up level 50 rangers in classic were actually badass... the problems with our damage mitigation really didn't surface until post-50 in Kunark where shit hit a lot harder and the DPS gap widened substantially for the melee classes.

This is what I remember as well. I remember a well geared Ranger doing enough DPS in SolB royals that we had to root everything down to use proximity aggro, otherwise Ranger DPS caused him to tank every fight.

There's so few rangers here on P99 I've never really been able to judge if it's the same here. Although, I grouped with Zilo in Seb and he was great... Kinda gives me hope that the rep is (somewhat) undeserved.