The only fair way to "fix" /list

[Xanzin]

Players need to get kicked from a /list for switching IP.

I was invited to a guild today and offered DKP to camp manastone in shifts.

People in OOC and possibly on the forums have pointed out-- Legacy items are easy-- you just need to "make friends." (and blatantly account share.)

Players with "friends" are forcing legit campers to stay awake for 40 hours at a time (when I camped guise first time a fella claimed 49.5 hours awake.)

The guise camp has about 3-5 people with a personality at any given time. Most people don't say a word.


Developers here don't want players killing themselves or taking stimulants to stay awake for 2-3 days straight. That's why the STORMFEATHER camp has rules including *you CAN go to sleep camping this, in fact PLEASE do!*


I know it's not a PERFECT solution-- there never is one. BUT-- removing players from /list for switching IP's will get rid of a MAJORITY of the /list abuse instantly.

(I can't code and don't know the difficulty-- but if you can implement this, /list might actually work close to as intended.)

[DMN]

Won't change much. The ones using that method will just switch to the screensharing method instead.

I already posted the only realistic way to change the camp when I first got a look at how the list was working. It involves simply making the drop itself go to a random camper.

[Natewest1987]

there is a screen sharing method? Lol

[Xanzin]

Dayum! Screensharing. NERRRDDSS!!!

Since that's the case.. is sharing accounts at legacy camps legal?

Inviting random unguilded people and promising DKP for sharing legacy camps is about at blatant as you can get.

[Swish]

"Legal"...."the law"..."rules"....

[Xanzin]

My buddy's solution was a little different. He suggested giving items to players based on hours spent at camp.

Hours spent would be a better solution-- but with guilds offering DKP for shifts, the hours would get astronomical.

[Xanzin]

"Legal"...."the law"..."rules"....

Heh, usually I'm along the lines of chaotic/neutral.

This time I got over excited thinking I had a solution to prevent people from keeling over.

Seems inevitable that any system implemented in a game will be gamed.

EQ is a group and guild game after all.

Since no solution will actually "fix" legacy camps, I have to say they're working fine.


Legacy camps are easy! Just make friends.


I'm on board now. That's how every other aspect of EQ works, right? This isn't a solo game.

Sorry for trying to fix something that isn't broken.


We should fix the rules and blatantly state that legacy camps can be account shared. We can't avoid it. Might as well just make it "legal" and out in the open. No more complaints other than people asking to "remove all legacy items."

If you have a friend who is willing to camp your guise WITH you-- in house or across the world-- GOOD FOR YOU! Let's just be honest.

[Dolalin]

It was always the case that people with guilds and friends did better in classic EQ.

I wasn't very extroverted so I didn't do so well at this back in the day, but it was definitely classic. :D

[DMN]

Nah it should be changed to something more in the spirit of original EQ that this server is trying to emulate. Back then you could show up and camp/join a group at evil eye if you only had an hour or two to play and still get your shot at winning one. Multiple users on an account was also against the rules. But on green instead of being punished for the what would have been against the original rules, they reward those same people with legacy loot. It's s a shit deal for this server all the way around.

[Izmael]

Since when sharing accounts is illegal or even wrong?

[therealmd]

Why does everyone complain about this list system? Yes you may have to wait a ridiculous amount of hours to get an item because of sharing, but you at least have a chance. Without the list system you would literally have 0 chance at getting any legacy item. These items would be locked down by top guilds and no one else would ever get a shot. So yeah you have to wait, but it’s the only legit way any casual player stands a chance at obtaining a legacy item. Stop complaining already.

[DMN]

Since when sharing accounts is illegal or even wrong?

In EQ? About the time you were wishing for pubes.

[loramin]

Why does everyone complain about this list system? Yes you may have to wait a ridiculous amount of hours to get an item because of sharing, but you at least have a chance. Without the list system you would literally have 0 chance at getting any legacy item. These items would be locked down by top guilds and no one else would ever get a shot. So yeah you have to wait, but it’s the only legit way any casual player stands a chance at obtaining a legacy item. Stop complaining already.

Dude, don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Yes, /list 1.0 is a million times better than not having lists at all. But no, that does not mean that a "2.0" /list couldn't be better.

And in fact, it could be much better, very easily. Simply change it so that you don't list for a position to wait, you list for a chance to get the mob when it spawns. As far as I can tell, this fixes all /list issues, and gets us back to:

Nah it should be changed to something more in the spirit of original EQ that this server is trying to emulate. Back then you could show up and camp/join a group at evil eye if you only had an hour or two to play and still get your shot at winning one.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Should make it so the list items are randomly awarded to one of the top 6 on list to mimic a group camping the mob instead of it being granted solely to the number 1 on list.

[loramin]

Should make it so the list items are randomly awarded to one of the top 6 on list to mimic a group camping the mob instead of it being granted solely to the number 1 on list.

I think that'd be cool too. The important thing to me is changing /list from being a reward for not playing EverQuest, to actually being EverQuest-like, and to me that boils down to the system fundamentally being about luck and patience (not avoiding sleep while clicking boxes).

Whether you have a "short list" or "no list", as long as someone can show up, try for a list item, then go to bed and come back the next day, that will feel more like EverQuest to me.

[Izmael]

Should make it so the list items are randomly awarded to one of the top 6 on list to mimic a group camping the mob instead of it being granted solely to the number 1 on list.

This.

It would fix the one obnoxious thing about lists - people you are grouped with, but are behind you in the queue, are interested in you going LD, dieing, missing a popup, etc.

It would also most likely get rid of some /petitions when the #1 is stalling because they can't or won't kill the mob for whatever reason and the others are unwilling to help (maybe hoping they'd muscle #1 into engaging and he'd die and drop off).

Now, of course sometimes a guy would join the /list, and get lucky and win the item at #5 or #6 and be out quickly, while the #1 or #2 have maybe been there for 48 hours already, but got unlucky with the random-to-first-6 award thing. It will be sometimes frustrating. But it will all smooth out in the long run because we all have the same amount of luck, in the long run.

[Mblake81]

Should make it so the list items are randomly awarded to one of the top 6 on list to mimic a group camping the mob instead of it being granted solely to the number 1 on list.

Should make it so that the item drops and is lootable by the group that camps it, opening up in some odd minutes after the kill if no one does.

[Izmael]

Should make it so that the item drops and is lootable by the group that camps it, opening up in some odd minutes after the kill if no one does.

But this would essentially remove the /list feature from the game - most current and future /list items never rot.

Randomly award to one of the top 6 is IMO the sweet spot. Most of the time it's the exp group anyway.

[Mblake81]

But this would essentially remove the /list feature from the game - most current and future /list items never rot.

Randomly award to one of the top 6 is IMO the sweet spot. Most of the time it's the exp group anyway.

Sure sounds good, maybe they can do some sort of /random 100 mechanic if its not too much trouble to code.

[Xathier]

I would like to see the /list work like this.

Named is killed and loot works like always to the group that kills it

When named dies /list uses same %drop rate chance, and if the item roll is successful, gives a confirmation box to the person at #1 and just puts it into the inventory of that person.

More items would enter the world faster and that would have to be watched, and all items would have to be lore.

[Trexller]

Honestly anything beats 30-60 hour long waits, clicking afk boxes every whatever minutes.

90% of the population currently has infinite time on their hands thanks to the china virus.

Like I posted before, the pandemic has fucked over any essential worker AND has given neckbeard welfare leeches even more opportunities to exercise their greed.

Lockout timers should be months 1-3 per account, or even further any account that looted, say, a manastone, should never again be eligible for another manastone list.

1 of each /list item per account is fair. To say otherwise will expose you for the greedy lifeless basement dweller that you are

[loramin]

It kinda sounds more like y'all want to list for a slot in a group ... which would definitely be "EverQuest-Y" in my book! But if they go that route, I'd like to see them actually go with it and make an official "camp group", which auto-invites new "/list winners" to it.

Letting 6 random neckbeards all not be in a group, but still fight over the same mob, just seems likely to cause problems ... and also no one in classic EQ ever sat in six groups of one waiting for loot ;)

[Mblake81]

It kinda sounds more like y'all want to list for a slot in a group ... which would definitely be "EverQuest-Y" in my book! But if they go that route, I'd like to see them actually go with it and make an official "camp group", which auto-invites new "/list winners" to it.

Letting 6 random neckbeards all not be in a group, but still fight over the same mob, just seems likely to cause problems ... and also no one in classic EQ ever sat in six groups of one waiting for loot ;)

maybe do some form of written list by the group leader.. it's a bit of a stretch but kids today could make an iphone app for it since the pen & paper aspect is harder to do.

Everquest-y

[loramin]

maybe do some form of written list by the group leader.. it's a bit of a stretch but kids today could make an iphone app for it since the pen & paper aspect is harder to do.

Everquest-y

:D

[ExitDeath]

90% of the population currently has infinite time on their hands thanks to the china virus.


Racist much? How about you call it by it's proper name Covid19 and not that Trump hating slang.

[DMN]

Racist much? How about you call it by it's proper name Covid19 and not that Trump hating slang.

I don't think EQ is the game for you. There are no bottles or diapers to be found.

[Trexller]

Racist much? How about you call it by it's proper name Covid19 and not that Trump hating slang.

China/chinese is a nationality and not a race

im South Korean irl

[Bigsham]

it was created at the wuhan institute of virology, china virus is not racist

if it was made in america and chinese people called it the america virus it would reak of success and freedom and probably have stars and stripes on it

[Seetherrr]

Looks like there is no reason to complain about /list anymore.

[deadlycupcakez]

Think they found the best way to fix it!

[beeshma_nameless]

This is going to be very interesting to see at Fungi staff camp (pre-nerf) heh.

If there is such a clamour for Mana stone and guise (literally vanity items compared to the staff!) , I can only imagine what it would be for pre-nerf Fungi staff, which arguably - on P99 - would be the most expensive item ever.

[xalg]

Racist much? How about you call it by it's proper name Covid19 and not that Trump hating slang.

fwiw, the virus is sars-cov-2, the disease is covid-19. everyone in the media misuses them so few people seem to know.

[BlackBellamy]

fwiw, the virus is sars-cov-2, the disease is covid-19. everyone in the media misuses them so few people seem to know.

The virus is the "Communist Chinese Virus" and the disease is "Those Commies Got Me!".

[stewe]

This is going to be very interesting to see at Fungi staff camp (pre-nerf) heh.

If there is such a clamour for Mana stone and guise (literally vanity items compared to the staff!) , I can only imagine what it would be for pre-nerf Fungi staff, which arguably - on P99 - would be the most expensive item ever.

Are they even going to be using the /list for it

[DMN]

Are they even going to be using the /list for it

Prolly do something. Gonna be 10 times worse than manabone.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Y'all spent a whole week awake without account sharing. Diabetes. Heart disease. Ain't worth a manastones.

[GnomeCaptain]

Racist much? How about you call it by it's proper name Covid19 and not that Trump hating slang.

So it's racist to speak facts? LOL typical lib, infected with TDS.

Chinese Coronavirus is an international disaster, and it came from China.

COVID is a name that came from the WHO, partners in crime with the Chinese.

Chinese coronavirus originated in China, due to uniquely disgusting Chinese practices. And it was made into a huge problem by the incompetence of Chinese government and individuals and the complicity of the criminally incompetent and corrupt WHO.

Chinese actions have caused thousands of deaths and the suffering of millions.

Understand, lib? :D

ETA: You should thank the divine everyday that we have an amazing, intelligent, hard-working, hyper-competent Donald J. Trump as our President during this disastrous time. Our President will continue to protect the American people against the world's most deadly and pernicious enemy: the Communist tumor known as the PRC.

It's time to smash China =)

[Woke Locc]

China/chinese is a nationality and not a race

im South Korean irl

Han, Hanguk

As a miguk sarang hae yo

[cd288]

Players need to get kicked from a /list for switching IP.

I was invited to a guild today and offered DKP to camp manastone in shifts.

People in OOC and possibly on the forums have pointed out-- Legacy items are easy-- you just need to "make friends." (and blatantly account share.)

Players with "friends" are forcing legit campers to stay awake for 40 hours at a time (when I camped guise first time a fella claimed 49.5 hours awake.)

The guise camp has about 3-5 people with a personality at any given time. Most people don't say a word.


Developers here don't want players killing themselves or taking stimulants to stay awake for 2-3 days straight. That's why the STORMFEATHER camp has rules including *you CAN go to sleep camping this, in fact PLEASE do!*


I know it's not a PERFECT solution-- there never is one. BUT-- removing players from /list for switching IP's will get rid of a MAJORITY of the /list abuse instantly.

(I can't code and don't know the difficulty-- but if you can implement this, /list might actually work close to as intended.)

There have been multiple threads about this same topic already. Can’t you use the search function and just go whine in those instead of posting a new thread?

[Castle2.0]

OP, just a reminder, your idea (and every "original amazing this will fix the list" idea) has been played out and refuted in other threads.

Try the search function on the forum to save yourself some time and save us space on the front page.

[Izmael]

OP, just a reminder, your idea (and every "original amazing this will fix the list" idea) has been played out and refuted in other threads.

Try the search function on the forum to save yourself some time and save us space on the front page.

Thank you for your input, but it seems that most people agree with my proposition.

It also seems that most people find you obnoxious, but I digress.

[fadetree]

There is no way to fix the list system. Random award to the top 6?

Top 6 what? List members? Then it's still the same, you wait for 40 hours, then get 'admitted' to the exp group (who controls THAT?) and then you get screwed by RNG and still people sharing accounts fill up the list. If you don't have to be in the exp group, then you're saying that I would get an item just for breathing and wouldn't actually have to kill the mob? How would I get it? Get it magically transferred to me?

Could the /list system be made slightly better? Maybe, but I haven't heard how yet. Can it be 'fixed' so it's 'fair' and people can't scam it? No.

I appreciate the idea, its worth thinking about, but ultimately it doesn't work. Nothing does, unless you wrap so many rules around it that it changes the whole game.

[Izmael]

then get 'admitted' to the exp group (who controls THAT?)

Have you done any /list camps? It usually works out pretty well. The exp group forms itself and people get exp. The two times I camped Jboots, people were also friendly and helpful to the noobs who were actually exp'ing off the mobs and buffed them and whatnot.



get screwed by RNG

This is gambler's fallacy. You'll get screwed by RNG as much as you'll get lucky and in the long run it will balance itself out.


and still people sharing accounts fill up the list

Who cares if you're in top 6? Let them fill the list all they want.


ultimately it doesn't work. Nothing does.

Having a rough day? Look, plenty of filthy casuals with actual kids, lives and hobbies (other than EQ) got their noob-ass toons guised and jbooted. This can't be all that bad, can it?

[sajbert]

Since when sharing accounts is illegal or even wrong?

It’s not against the rules but it should be. It creates problems with account security and it is essentially an unfair advantage. If you want your friend to help you, he can do so on HIS character.

[sajbert]

This is gambler's fallacy. You'll get screwed by RNG as much as you'll get lucky and in the long run it will balance itself out.

It will balance itself out? Over what, the 50 or so times you do a /list camp?

[Izmael]

It will balance itself out? Over what, the 50 or so times you do a /list camp?

Well, if there's enough /list camps in the game, you will have the opportunity to do a bunch of them.