Charming Etiquette (from other camps)

[Taiku]

I was at the goblin camp in HHK, I had Osargen charmed (and had him charmed for about 5 hours before this) while grouping, a druid came up and said "oh... you have osargen..." "rip wanted to camp for xp :/ guess im screwed" And then proceeded to /tell me "with you cahrming you are claiming 2 camps which is illegal, in the discord getting all this info, please drop osargen". Followed by a bit of bickering in /ooc, I didn't respond to any of it (but my group sure did). My group mates assured me that I was fine to keep him.

They ended up logging out before anything came of their claims of "reported you for scumbaggery", I thought it was quite rude to demand me to drop my pet!

There is no loot off this mob aside from the mage weapons we had given him, and he backstabs so he's superior to other mobs in the zone for charm dps.

Was I wrong for not dropping the pet so this druid could camp him? I want to get a clear understanding of how this works to avoid future conflicts as I am new to enchanter, thanks!

[Canelek]

That druid seems like a real charmer...

[Jimjam]

Not a fan of the way it sounded like he went about resolving this conflict.

I mean, could you as an enc say Orsargen was your camp, and you were killing unclaimed FFA mobs?

[loramin]

The official rules (Play Nice Policies) basically don't address charming, and in fact those rules don't let you "own a mob" ... you can only own a "spawn point". To "own that point", you have to be the last person to kill a mob that spawned from that point.

As long as you didn't charm a mob that someone had recently killed, by my elf lawyering you are 100% in the clear, both in "elf law", and in "common law" (I think 95+% of players would agree what you did was fine).

However, I would like to take this opportunity to point out one asshole thing I see charmers do sometimes, that is (per my reading anyway) a violation of the rules: please do not release your pet somewhere that will make it wander back on someone else's fight!

This happens in PoM a lot: a Druid will charm an animal from A1, bring it to A4 for a fight, and then release it in A4 ... causing it to path back through A4-A1 ... and effectively training anyone else fighting at A4-A1,

THINK about where your pet is going to go after you release them, and if they will train someone DON'T DO IT! It's the same as purposefully training them in any other way, at least in my book.

[DMN]

Sounds like he was trying to make the argument that by charming Os you were thus "camping" him as well as a gob camp in the basement (I assume).


He's wrong, of course, and even if Os would die his first respawn will be an FTE.

[Taiku]

Thank you for the replies!


However, I would like to take this opportunity to point out one asshole thing I see charmers do sometimes, that is (per my reading anyway) a violation of the rules: please do not release your pet somewhere that will make it wander back on someone else's fight!

This is good advice and I would be very certain not to do stuff like this, I've been pretty careful thus far.

I just don't like to cause trouble for anyone, but felt it wasn't right for him to tell me to release my pet, as a side note I would never charm a mob for an extended period of time that dropped some sort of loot, or was for a quest of some sort.

I hope the elf lawyer fees I've accumulated in the last 30 minutes don't bury me!

[cd288]

I mean if the staff came into the situation while it was ongoing I think there’s a chance they would say that you have to release the mob so someone else can kill it. I think it would probably be limited to situations like this where it’s a specific spawn and there aren’t other mobs of his level around that aren’t camped for the player to kill (I.e. no one is ever going to say you need to release your wandering trash mob or your Froglok in Guk for example).

Doesn’t mean the Druid isn’t being a dick given the long standing practice of Osargen being charmed by the HHK group. Going there thinking he’s going to be up for you to kill us just dumb on the Druid’s part and then he’s a jerk for trying to rule lawyer there.

[Cen]

When I used to charm Osargen in the basement on Blue for that stint, I had 2 occasions across 3-5 groups where someone asked for him wanting to camp him. I released him for them to camp him and chose a different mob to charm. I think I grabbed the weaker princess. Someone had this issue recently on the forums and I want to find it, but ultimately I believe in giving up a separate camps mob if someone intends to camp it, especially with the state of green's overpopulation.

[Snortles Chortles]

Maybe Osargen prefers chillin in muhh goblin slAYer grOuP
Didja ever think of that?!

[Taiku]

Maybe Osargen prefers chillin in muhh goblin slAYer grOuP
Didja ever think of that?!

Slain by a druid every 20 min or whatever his spawn is, or, slay goblins for the good of us all while slowly getting dressed in bronze armor, the choice is clear.

[Bigsham]

You lose regardless imo

[ThonDaMan]

You're not killing Osargen, and you're not camping him. He's charmed. Druid can kick rocks & send his petition to elf court.

[drackgon]

yeah druids SoL. As long as someone wasn't actively killing him when you showed up and charmed. Its yours. He/she can cry all they want. There is plenty of other camps they could go to.

[Lordgordon]

I will play Druid's advocate.

What if every enchanter in the zone had a charmed pet, and there were no mobs to kill?

[ChooChoo Train]

I’d love to see a twinked out 34ench with negative MR gear hasting Mistress Anna Charmed for goblin Group lol.

[cd288]

I’d love to see a twinked out 34ench with negative MR gear hasting Mistress Anna Charmed for goblin Group lol.


If you’re in a group wouldn’t really matter. Stun and mez and then you have a healer right there to help your HP bar out. Charm breaks are really only a problem if you’re soloing

[A1551]

I know its been said but it is certainly not against the rules to charm a mob and use it as a pet all night. I dont see a rules problem here. That said green is a crowded clusterfuck and honestly were it me *and the person asked with a modicum of deceny* id likely just give up osargen and charm something else. Now in your situation based on what we know id say you handled it perfectly. Charming osargen for a hhk gobbo group is an enchanter rite of passage and honestly as a druid in that range its not like there aint plenty of other choices better than involving a gm over nothing!

[DMN]

I’d love to see a twinked out 34ench with negative MR gear hasting Mistress Anna Charmed for goblin Group lol.

The -MR will be useless. 99% of your breaks will be due to level difference in that case. -

[loramin]

I will play Druid's advocate.

What if every enchanter in the zone had a charmed pet, and there were no mobs to kill?

This actually raises a decent point:

10. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

- Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

- Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by a P99CSR.

- Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

- Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

- Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).


The Druid could argue that the Enchanter was disrupting "the normal playability of a zone or area". The examples listed don't really fit, but clearly at some point (as Lordgordon suggested) charming enough mobs would become disruption ... and of course it would be up to the GM to decide where the line is.

I'd go so far as to suggest that charming just a single mob could qualify ... IF you're charming a key merchant or quest NPC, just to be a dick and prevent someone from using them. What seems to keep the Enchanter in this situation in the clear is:

A) it's only one mob

B) it's just an XP mob

C) the Enchanter is legitimately using the pet, not just denying someone else

[jerryR]

If someone is being an ass to you about it and you're not breaking the rules then screw it. Obviously though, this escalation caused this person some stress and you some stress (I mean, you posted about it). So sometimes I think it's better to be the bigger person and let the other guy win. He probably would have just camped it for a half hour anyway and you'd have saved a lot of hassle.

(and had him charmed for about 5 hours before this)

This is the favorite line of anyone who has been lucky af to have 2+ camps to themselves for a long time trying to justify why they won't or can't share now. It's tempting to throw that in there, but it really is superfluous.

... this is my 2 cents on green having dealt with a lot of random disputes that either I'm at fault for escalating or someone else needlessly escalated. It really does cause a lot of stress to an already contentious interaction where someone has something you want

[Natewest1987]

I mean. He’s not wrong. Elf lawyering around or not, the drama that mob causes is ridiculous.

[Jimjam]

Going back to Loramin’s point, I do think charming Osargen to dps on goblins is an established normal zone experience on p1999, so trying to deprive someone of their Orsargen would actually be the one causing disruption.

[cd288]

Going back to Loramin’s point, I do think charming Osargen to dps on goblins is an established normal zone experience on p1999, so trying to deprive someone of their Orsargen would actually be the one causing disruption.

I doubt the staff would take that stance.

[kjs86z]

everquest

[Taiku]

everquest

hell yea :cool:

[derpcake2]

I hope staff bans anyone that wastes their time with this kind of shit.

[aaezil]

If the pet you are charming is from a different camp than the one you are currently killing id assume you would have to pick one or the other. If its from the same camp i dont see an issue.

[Jimjam]

I doubt the staff would take that stance.

Me neither, p1999 is generally a 'spirit of the rules' place, not 'rules as written'.

[gkmarino]

I've seen Rogean himself step into Karnor's Castle and force an enchanter to drop a charmed pet. However, the mob was a Named spawn that can randomly spawn at many places. Since Osargen isn't a rare mob, nor has a loot table, I don't think this would be much of an issue.

[loramin]

Me neither, p1999 is generally a 'spirit of the rules' place, not 'rules as written'.

Heh ... and they also write down as few rules as they possibly can in the first place: the word "charm" literally doesn't appear anywhere in the Play Nice Policies (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325349).

On the one hand, I totally get that the staff does that on purpose, and I don't want to have to read a "big book of elf law" to play either. But at the same time, if you make it harder for players to know the rules, by definition it makes them harder to follow.

When I think back on all the times I had issues with other players (whether or not a /petition was involved), the vast majority were not from someone genuinely trying to break the rules: they were players who misunderstood and thought they were in the right. Based on that, I think this place swings too far toward not writing rules down.

If they did more to iterate on the rules ... for instance, by adding a sentence or two on "how to charm while being respectful of other players" ... I really don't think it would create the "big book of elf law" problem, but it would reduce conflicts between players caused by no one knowing what's expected.

[Snortles Chortles]

i bet that dru is feeling pretty silly right now