How strong a Shaman that never gets Torpor?

[Vanessa]

I've read that in Kunark, Shamans are like the best soloer / farmers. I was wondering, is that true because of Torpor, or other reasons?

I will likely never get Torpor, even if I did, I would probably sell it for like 100k-500k plat and use that $$ to try out other characters haha.

Considering that... how strong is a Shaman for solo leveling and solo farming, if they never plan to get Torpor? In that situation, would it just be better play a Druid or Necromancer?

[Trexller]

Torpor is an endless supply of mana. the spells mana cost is low, its healing capacity is very high. A shaman with torpor can solo Ayllish in west wastes for example. without torpor it can't be done.

If you are lucky enough to win a torpor drop, you will make that money farming other stuff many times over. On blue, my shaman was 60 for over a year before i broke down and bought torpor. It was like I had a new, extremely OP Class. 3 years later I still kick myself for not having bought torpor the day I dinged 60.

What you read is correct, with torpor, shaman can solo kill mobs that enchanters dream about.

[DMN]

If you are pretty sure you won't get torpor. certainly avoid wasting time on a shaman if your only interest is farming stuff.

[galach]

pretty weak

[Fammaden]

Do you LIKE farming shit and selling it or do you just like the idea of having lots of plat? The reality of actually going out and doing the thing is different in practice than in theory. Your post makes it sound like you don't want to be a shaman farming shit to sell, you just want money to gear alts because that's the fun part to you. Play what you enjoy and let the rest fall into place on its own.

[fastboy21]

Its bad enough that I refused to play my shaman at lvl 59 until I had one banked...nothing is more painful then folks asking you to do something and they say "you have torpor, right?"

Basically, torpor changes how you play...Shaman without torpor can still do lots of stuff, but a torpor shaman is practically a different class.

[Vidar]

Any guess on how much torpor is going to cost in EC?

[plzrelax]

100k is my guess

[RevSaber]

Hey, so I've always wondered... How do you carry 100k+ plat anyway.... I've had like maybe 10k and it was a bitch to walk to the bank...

[Cen]

The best soloer is a tough single title to give to a class. A shaman can extraoridinaraly slowly solo some tough monsters that enchanters can't take due to no charmable mobs.

An enchanter of course (while everyone will say its totally a difficult class) will brainlessly solo more content then anything, with very little skill required and very little money investment. Its probably the actual best soloist among all measures across the board, but it can't do everything everyone else can.

A necromancer can in a time trial probably solo the most big stuff quickest.

A bard can kill swarms of 25 things fastest though.


There's a solo challenge guide but I dont know if it made its way to green. That's a nice well rounded metric, but mostly caters to Shaman and Enchanters style.


If you want to mindlessly kill most content in the game without a challenge, thats an Enchanter. Charm is just too easy to do.

[Nuggie]

Hey, so I've always wondered... How do you carry 100k+ plat anyway.... I've had like maybe 10k and it was a bitch to walk to the bank...

Level 5 bard has selo's, which allows you to move while otherwise over encumbered. Or sow pots/jboots on any other class

[Fammaden]

Yeah people don't keep 100k in the bank, they keep in on a mule in the tunnel. Many don't even bother with the bard part they just accept the fact that they can't move.

[douglas1999]

"Can you kill it or not?" has got to be the most relevant question when it comes to best soloer though. I agree different classes are better or worse at soloing in different circumstances, but are there any mobs that enchanters *can* solo that a torp shaman can't? Charm is kind of cheap too because it's not really soloing, it's just having access to a really powerful merc. Shaman pets are pathetically weak and zero fights pivot on a shaman pet being present or not.

[Bigsham]

strongest dots and can slow stuff and solo summonable mobs

torpor is amazing, theres nothing in the game better so keep your spell , its the best heal ratio there is

[kaev]

Level 5 bard has selo's, which allows you to move while otherwise over encumbered. Or sow pots/jboots on any other class

It's worth mentioning that if you move over uneven terrain while carrying that much coin (i.e. set foot out of the tunnel) it's a good idea to have levi also. The tiniest drop can become a 10k fall if sufficiently encumbered. Part of why such large coin amounts usualy just stay on a mule in the tunnel I guess.

[cd288]

"Can you kill it or not?" has got to be the most relevant question when it comes to best soloer though. I agree different classes are better or worse at soloing in different circumstances, but are there any mobs that enchanters *can* solo that a torp shaman can't? Charm is kind of cheap too because it's not really soloing, it's just having access to a really powerful merc. Shaman pets are pathetically weak and zero fights pivot on a shaman pet being present or not.

I wouldn't say Charm is a cheesy method at high levels. For pretty high level content, a Charm break can seriously wreck your day very quickly if things go poorly. A stun or two landing on you before you can get some sort of CC spell off (and btw depending on the dungeon your Ench PBAOE stun line can be a bit dangerous to use) and you might be in some trouble.

[utenan]

one word: totemic armor
with the right set of totemic armor you can be an almost max level shaman powerhouse like i am

https://i.imgur.com/NLpB0y4.png

[Snortles Chortles]

whoa you finally got dressed?!

[Tethler]

A shaman without torpor is still better than a druid.

[Natewest1987]

It's worth mentioning that if you move over uneven terrain while carrying that much coin (i.e. set foot out of the tunnel) it's a good idea to have levi also. The tiniest drop can become a 10k fall if sufficiently encumbered. Part of why such large coin amounts usualy just stay on a mule in the tunnel I guess.

Lol seriously ? Encumberence effects fall damage ?

[fastboy21]

Lol seriously ? Encumberence effects fall damage ?

Jump off the bank platform in kelethin with 50k on you and test it out!

Also, yah...this is a real thing.

[Mazoku]

Weight determines fall damage. If you have levitate on with 50k on you, when levitate fades and falls off you DIE! It's how you kill East Commonlands fatcats with 100k+ plat. Cast levitate and in 14 minutes they're dead.

[Jibartik]

I broke my ankle and died because of this once.

https://i.imgur.com/nxBMBkb.png

[Tethler]

Weight determines fall damage. If you have levitate on with 50k on you, when levitate fades and falls off you DIE! It's how you kill East Commonlands fatcats with 100k+ plat. Cast levitate and in 14 minutes they're dead.

Doing this from now on when I seem them selling something I can't afford.

[DMN]

Doing this from now on when I seem them selling something I can't afford.

It's a great idea if you are in desperate need of a vacation from p99.

[Tethler]

It's a great idea if you are in desperate need of a vacation from p99.

I'm a generous guy. I give people free buffs all the time. I won't even charge them for the batwing.

[DMN]

I'm a generous guy. I give people free buffs all the time. I won't even charge them for the batwing.

Let's hope the GM is equally "generous".

[Tethler]

Let's hope the GM is equally "generous".

Who is your overly encumbered tunnel mule? I'd be happy to share my generosity with you. I'll be cool and give you a sow as well, so you can make it to the bank before lev fades.

[Fammaden]

I broke my ankle and died because of this once.

https://i.imgur.com/nxBMBkb.png

Yeah this fucker will kill you from one millimeter with as little as like 20k on you.

[ChaSue0669]

one word: totemic armor
with the right set of totemic armor you can be an almost max level shaman powerhouse like i am

https://i.imgur.com/NLpB0y4.png

Are you talking about a complete set or just certain pieces. If so, what pieces are considered to be essential.

[Vaarsuvius]

Lol seriously ? Encumberence effects fall damage ?

It sure does... Levi dropped while I was carrying a large amount of $$$

[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You were hit by non-melee for 20000 damage.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You have been knocked unconscious!
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] Pain and suffering tries to strike YOU, but misses!
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You died.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You have lost experience.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:06 2020] Returning to home point, please wait...
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:06 2020] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:15 2020] You have entered East Commonlands.

[kjs86z]

If you aren't planning on farming for Torpor, don't bother playing a shaman.

[Jimjam]

It sure does... Levi dropped while I was carrying a large amount of $$$

[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You were hit by non-melee for 20000 damage.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You have been knocked unconscious!
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] Pain and suffering tries to strike YOU, but misses!
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You died.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:02 2020] You have lost experience.
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:06 2020] Returning to home point, please wait...
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:06 2020] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Tue Jun 23 02:04:15 2020] You have entered East Commonlands.

I think it is more weight than encumbrance ... being strong won't stop you from falling hard!

[Vaarsuvius]

I think it is more weight than encumbrance ... being strong won't stop you from falling hard!

You're probably right. Not sure a 80ish STR caster qualifies as strong though ;p

[Christina.]

The best soloer is a tough single title to give to a class. A shaman can extraoridinaraly slowly solo some tough monsters that enchanters can't take due to no charmable mobs.

An enchanter of course (while everyone will say its totally a difficult class) will brainlessly solo more content then anything, with very little skill required and very little money investment. Its probably the actual best soloist among all measures across the board, but it can't do everything everyone else can.

A necromancer can in a time trial probably solo the most big stuff quickest.

A bard can kill swarms of 25 things fastest though.


There's a solo challenge guide but I dont know if it made its way to green. That's a nice well rounded metric, but mostly caters to Shaman and Enchanters style.


If you want to mindlessly kill most content in the game without a challenge, thats an Enchanter. Charm is just too easy to do.

Cen did you just say playing an Enchanter takes no skill or brains? ...... Uhm.

[Entee]

I always remember people saying Enchanter was the hardest class to play and took the most skill?

[Zipity]

I’d say soloing on a bard takes the most skill, enchanter probably second, and an enchanter is hands down the best soloer... there are plenty of dungeon camps a torpor shaman wouldn’t be able to break or hold due to not being able to split a full camp or stuff respawning before they can kill, etc etc and where can an enchanter not find a pet? And really what can a shaman solo that an enchanter can’t?

[Jimjam]

where can an enchanter not find a pet?I'm going to ignore all context and answer this literally. The Arena.

[Cen]

Mashing mobs together with charm dancing on my bard is a bit tougher to solo all the mobs in skyshrine with my bard but playing Enchanter is ludecrously easier then people make it out to be. Its just too ridiculously powerful with 0 skill and if you put in effort you're a god. If you want a god class as easily and cheaply as possible, Enchanter is your answer.

[Philistine]

Weight determines fall damage. If you have levitate on with 50k on you, when levitate fades and falls off you DIE! It's how you kill East Commonlands fatcats with 100k+ plat. Cast levitate and in 14 minutes they're dead.

LOL what a funny idea!! Does it really work??

[Lune]

Mashing mobs together with charm dancing on my bard is a bit tougher to solo all the mobs in skyshrine with my bard but playing Enchanter is ludecrously easier then people make it out to be. Its just too ridiculously powerful with 0 skill and if you put in effort you're a god. If you want a god class as easily and cheaply as possible, Enchanter is your answer.

If you think enchanter is 0 skill you're not playing at an appropriate level of complexity.

[Cen]

If you think enchanter is 0 skill you're not playing at an appropriate level of complexity.

You used that fallacious line of reasoning backwards. You're supposed to say that when the person is complaining that something is ineffective when it's actually effective. However, if a dumbass like me is saying he considers something ridiculously easy and effective, then someone playing at "an appropriate level of complexity" must make the class a god.

Unless you're saying that I am too amazing and playing too well and should be trying less hard on purpose.. but that seems like an even more silly thing to say.

[GnomeCaptain]

Ignore the trolls, Enchanter is one of the toughest (if not the toughest) to play well.

I've played it for a couple years, and long ago I lost count of all the Enchanters that try very hard but can't do it well. The reward for skill and planning is enormous. And so are the penalties for their absence.

Other classes are much less challenging, though soloing in dynamic situations as a Bard might be tougher.

[turbosilk]

Best is ench. Shaman are pretty subpar without torpor.

[kjs86z]

You used that fallacious line of reasoning backwards. You're supposed to say that when the person is complaining that something is ineffective when it's actually effective. However, if a dumbass like me is saying he considers something ridiculously easy and effective, then someone playing at "an appropriate level of complexity" must make the class a god.

Unless you're saying that I am too amazing and playing too well and should be trying less hard on purpose.. but that seems like an even more silly thing to say.

Try the Enchanter Solo Artist Challenge sometime in Velious and lemme know how ya make out.

[douglas1999]

Best is ench. Shaman are pretty subpar without torpor.

Yeah but an ench would be too without a spell that their class gets... weird point.

[TripSin]

I always remember people saying Enchanter was the hardest class to play and took the most skill?

It still is, generally.

[Danth]

Yeah but an ench would be too without a spell that their class gets... weird point.

An Enchanter isn't likely going to miss any of his key spells because they're usually cheap. Visions of Grandeur and Bedlam are probably the most expensive Enchanter spells on average and neither of them are mandatory for doing the things an Enchanter can do. The Enchanter has no counterpart to Torpor in terms of difficulty of obtaining combined with critical importance.

---------------------------------------------------------

A Shaman who lacks Torpor can perform his normal group and raid roles just like he always has--after all, few people tell a 58 or 59 Shaman not to show up. The class is undeniably weaker for solo or duo situations and can't so easily handle solo main healer job for groups. As good as Torpor is, if you're the sort of player who semi-retires a character upon hitting 60 to the occasional group and some raiding you can live without Torpor and Malo arguably becomes the more important level 60 spell.

Danth

[Bigsham]

Torpor is not that rare or hard to get at all, it drops from every crappy dragon , juggs, bosses etc

as long as you are active you will get it

[douglas1999]

Yeah that's true, but it's still a question of given all available spells gear and abilities, who can solo the hardest things? Or you can measure it by some other metric of course, but I do think that's the most important one to consider. I mean tbh both classes are insanely op, so it's sorta like rich guys arguing over who has a bigger golden yacht.

[fastboy21]

Torpor is not that rare or hard to get at all, it drops from every crappy dragon , juggs, bosses etc

as long as you are active you will get it

It can be a pita. Do regular jugs drop it on blue? I thought only jumpy, protecter, and crypt boss aside from Trak in seb.

[Trazer]

Hey, so I've always wondered... How do you carry 100k+ plat anyway.... I've had like maybe 10k and it was a bitch to walk to the bank...

you make the trade while standing at the bank

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I always remember people saying Enchanter was the hardest class to play and took the most skill?

It can certainly be very unforgiving and terribly inefficient if you're bad (frequently taking non-runed HP damage leads to lots of downtime)

[turbosilk]

It can be a pita. Do regular jugs drop it on blue? I thought only jumpy, protecter, and crypt boss aside from Trak in seb.

Regular jugs dont drop it.

[Baler]

A Guardian Wurm (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Guardian_Wurm)
People will be farming these out front of VP when kunark drops.

A Cliff Golem (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_cliff_golem)
These are one way to try grinding out a torpor, it's pretty slow but you'll get other spells too.
Try not to hurt anyone with those cliff golems.
Shm Solo&Duo Cliff Golem (https://wiki.project1999.com/Balers_Useful_Info#Shm_Solo.26Duo_Cliff_Golem)

[mcoy]

Yay! Baler's back! We missed you...

-Mcoy

[Zipity]

Really tho what camp / mob can a torpor shaman Solo that an enchanter can’t and faster? I’d wager the answer is zero.

[Jibartik]

A Guardian Wurm (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Guardian_Wurm)
People will be farming these out front of VP when kunark drops.

I wonder how difficult this camp is for a group of 50's

[DMN]

Really tho what camp / mob can a torpor shaman Solo that an enchanter can’t and faster? I’d wager the answer is zero.

I'd wager you forgot to include "if charm holds".

Unfortunately it often doesn't. Enchanter have a general weakness to a combination of summoning mobs that are also immune to stun/mez.

[Zipity]

I wonder how difficult this camp is for a group of 50's

With the right classes it wouldn’t be impossible IF they can get it slowed and have a good way to split or can out dps respawns

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Enchanters and Torpor Shamans can solo some of the toughest mobs. They are the top tier soloers. But there are camps that Enchanters can do that Shamans can't, and vice versa. There is no one absolute best soloer. It depends on what you want to solo.

Shamans are the king at killing monsters that are Slowable and can summon. Their high amount of damage mitigation (Torpor and Slow) allow them to face tank hard mobs to death. The process can be slow, but it is very effective.

The biggest downside to Shamans is they aren't very good at handling 4+ mobs, especially in hard areas. Shaman spells cost a lot of mana, so trying to maintain slow and root on more than 3 mobs at a time is almost impossible. You could be super risk taking and only root the mobs, but you take a lot of damage if root breaks occur. Taking damage as a Shaman translates to lower Mana Regeneration. You are spending a lot of HP on damage, instead of cannibalize.

This is where Enchanters can shine. If there is a group of hard monsters, an Enchanter has way more tools to break them up. This is especially true when mobs are immune to roots and snares. Sirens Grotto is a perfect example here. That zone is basically tailor made for Enchanters. Shamans can slowly solo some mobs here, but it isn't a great experience. Enchanters can also kill mobs that are unslowable, if there is a good mob to Charm nearby. It is difficult for a Shaman to solo unslowable mobs.

To the original question, Shamans are still great soloers pre-Torpor. Slow, Regenration, Pet, and Cannibalize allow you to kill mobs quite effectively, while not losing a ton of resources. When Kunark comes out, you will have access to Fungi Tunic, Fungi Staff, and JBB. Yes, they will be highly sought after, but even one of those items will significatly improve your performance, and you should be able to obtain at least one with a bit of effort or plat farming. Epic and Torpor will be the bigger bottlenecks, but you can certainly do well without them.

I would roll a Shaman even without plans for Torpor. They have a fun playstyle and are quite efficient at farming.

[Jibartik]

The main difference is, do you prefer this:

https://i.imgur.com/dZJEXbg.gif

or this:

https://i.imgur.com/yX4Ay7s.gif

#swish

[Byrjun]

If you're 60 and you don't have Torpor you spend every moment in the game farming money until you can afford it. On Blue I just tried to get into Crypt groups whenever I could since Emp has a chance to drop it, sometimes I'd solo the scarabs in seb or whatever. Eventually I had the 100k to buy it from a raid guild.

[Gwildar]

Hey, so I've always wondered... How do you carry 100k+ plat anyway.... I've had like maybe 10k and it was a bitch to walk to the bank...

When that amount is involved, both people go to the bank so that noone has to crawl around.

[cd288]

The main difference is, do you prefer this:

https://i.imgur.com/dZJEXbg.gif

or this:

https://i.imgur.com/yX4Ay7s.gif

#swish

Best way I’ve seen it described. Well done

[Asteria]

Those gifs are great representations :D

[SyanideGas]

The main difference is, do you prefer this:

https://i.imgur.com/dZJEXbg.gif

or this:

https://i.imgur.com/yX4Ay7s.gif

#swish

Lol if that ain't a shaman I don't know what is.

[Jimjam]

I'm not a fan of much of the post kunark content, but Shaman had some great 'fluffy' AA...

I was a big fan of summoning an army of wolves, turning in to a rabid bear, and charging in to kick ass!

IIRC rightly at one point you could MGB the group damage proc buff on to the summoned pets for silly burst damage?

[Jibartik]

I'm not a fan of much of the post kunark content

I dont love the themes they added, I like vampires and dark elves mainly, but I do love the dungeon designs, they are super fun and hard to master but totally masterable! The gearing was a much better increase in strength than Velious too, it was like a nice clean ratchet up leaving much of classic still BIS!

So tend to agree. I grew to love it on P99 but I greatly prefer classic. The tree's in Kunark are my least favorite thing about it I think. :o

[garfo]

The main difference is, do you prefer this:

https://i.imgur.com/dZJEXbg.gif

or this:

https://i.imgur.com/yX4Ay7s.gif

#swish


This is the most genius depiction of the differences between the two classes I've ever seen.

[Baler]

The main difference is, do you prefer this:

https://i.imgur.com/dZJEXbg.gif

or this:

https://i.imgur.com/yX4Ay7s.gif

#swish

lol, on point.

[Jibartik]

haha I'm glad that one got a lot of mileage.

[Snortles Chortles]

so getting kicked in the balls Strong
got it

[BarackObooma]

I wonder how difficult this camp is for a group of 50's

They are level 60 and have 30k hitpoints and hit for 554.

They are also hit or miss landing sow even with malo in. A group of 50s will get eaten quickly. I've had times on my 60 torp shaman on blue that they've resisted slow 8x in a row. A 50s trying to land slow is going to have more problems because of the level difference making landing it even harder. Not impossible but many deaths will happen before you take one down. That is if you can manage to pull one solo pre-60. Going to need harmony or a super monk.

That being said, I have duo'd them with my shaman and a SK. That will make your butt pucker.

[rabids]

I killed a couple with a 60 sk, 56 ranger and 56 shammy (me). Although the sk had some bis and i had all the normal clickies excluding epic. Just kite it till slow lands and a full group of 55+ should manage it even if you are untwinked. I dont think it is a viable camp at 50, but why do you need GW's before lvl 55 anyway?

[Jibartik]

Yeah they're very easy to single and debuff, I suppose all you need is one tank to be high enough to handle the slowed wurm the question is, whats the earliest a tank can I wonder.

I wonder when and what will drop the first torp.