In-game digital maps, SERIOUSLY?!?!

[Zuranthium]

I started playing p1999 very recently and just a moment ago I suddenly found out that the PoP-era maps, where you hit "M" and it tells you the entire layout of the zone and exactly where you are in the zone, are in the game. WTF?!? This is by far one of the worst things ever introduced to the game and completely goes against classic EQ.

I can understand having to look at your spellbook as you meditate (at lower levels) not being in the game, even though it definitely SHOULD be in the game, perhaps it is too difficult to code in after having been removed from the EQ datebase that is being worked with, but seriously...the in-game maps?!?! What gives?!?!

Apologies if that sounds indignant to the designers but I was literally SHOCKED when the in-game map suddenly popped up when I was trying to type without remembering to click the chat box and hit the "M" button. This feature is the exact opposite of what I thought was attempting to be created with this server. I am never going to use the Map feature but knowing that it is in the game and other people are using it is very disheartening.

[Nagash]

Get out of the newbie zones...

[soup]

It's only in cities/noob zones.

From what I understand, they are unable to remove them from those places due to some issues with the client or whatever, not sure on the details, but yeah.

[stormlord]

I actually like having to memorize a zone. It makes it more personal in a strange way. Like the place is your friend. It makes me MUCH faster when moving through the zone too. The people who get killed in trains or wipes are often the ones who have to use the map to find the exit. But anyway, as the posters above me have mentioned, the maps are only in the cities/noob. The X for group members is also disabled, if you missed that. So make sure you're following yoru buddies or have tracker in case someone gets lost. /loc can be used in those situations, but it's a bit slower to setup and use as opposed to tracking. In 3d zones, the X (or trackers) would do little good. In that case, knowing the zone by memory can be helpful in finding a lost group member.

[Rogean]

I started playing p1999 very recently and just a moment ago I suddenly found out that the PoP-era maps, where you hit "M" and it tells you the entire layout of the zone and exactly where you are in the zone, are in the game. WTF?!? This is by far one of the worst things ever introduced to the game and completely goes against classic EQ.

I can understand having to look at your spellbook as you meditate (at lower levels) not being in the game, even though it definitely SHOULD be in the game, perhaps it is too difficult to code in after having been removed from the EQ datebase that is being worked with, but seriously...the in-game maps?!?! What gives?!?!

Apologies if that sounds indignant to the designers but I was literally SHOCKED when the in-game map suddenly popped up when I was trying to type without remembering to click the chat box and hit the "M" button. This feature is the exact opposite of what I thought was attempting to be created with this server. I am never going to use the Map feature but knowing that it is in the game and other people are using it is very disheartening.

Assuming that we have choices in every matter of control over the client is pretty ignorant.

[Messianic]

Not trying to be snarky, byt did you do this before posting?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=697975

[stormlord]

Assuming that we have choices in every matter of control over the client is pretty ignorant.It's kind of sad too because if casters had to stare at the spellbook we'd have to listen to their spam in chat. If you wonder what's going on inside a casters mind...

[Zuranthium]

It's only in cities/noob zones.

Oh, thank God!

Assuming that we have choices in every matter of control over the client is pretty ignorant.

I didn't assume that, as stated in my post where I talked about the limitations no doubt presented by the code you have to work with, it just shocked me how such a vitally incorrect feature would be left in the game (if indeed people were touting this server as they have been). Glad to see it is gone for the most part! I'll surely donate eventually for all the hard work you've put into this. :)

Not trying to be snarky, byt did you do this before posting?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=697975

Clearly I didn't. The state of shock I was in led to me only having the tunnel vision to quickly create a post about it. My first thought was that the community simply didn't care about the in-game maps being active because they didn't actually care about the real, classic EQ experience.

[Jave]

Are you serious? Your going to create a post complaining about this? SO DON'T USE THEM!!! Right? This is free dude. Stop bitching.

[Swish]

For the purest classic experience you'll be wanting your spellbook back and that windowed UI with the blue around the edges and the scroll thing for messages. Nobody complained about that not coming back, or did they?

[soup]

For the purest classic experience you'll be wanting your spellbook back and that windowed UI with the blue around the edges and the scroll thing for messages. Nobody complained about that not coming back, or did they?

That horrid UI is the one thing from classic I don't miss one bit. I don't think I'd even be able to play here if I was limited to that UI :(

[Masq]

what does it matter? does having to alt tab to view a map online make you a better player or something? get over yourself

[Striiker]

This is by far one of the worst things ever introduced to the game and completely goes against classic EQ.

Really? "by far one of the worst things ever introduced.."? Overreacting much? The maps are far from game breaking. Everyone can pull up maps on a spare computer or on the same computer when playing in a window. In-game maps are FAR, FAR, FAR from the worst thing ever introduced..


Apologies if that sounds indignant to the designers but I was literally SHOCKED when the in-game map suddenly popped up

You really need to lighten up. This is a game. They are doing a great job making it as classic as they can.. Also, all that you typed to be honest made you come across as an ass. Perhaps next time you can try searching or even better, ask politely without the drama and indignation. People are quick to respond to questions here and most tend to be mature about helping out people.

I am never going to use the Map feature but knowing that it is in the game and other people are using it is very disheartening.

What is it with people getting so worked up about what other people do to enjoy the game? If you don't want the maps, don't use them.. If you don't want the compass at the top, turn it off.. If you want old school UI, load one up.. I don't know why the knowledge that someone else is using these drives people to bitch and moan..

[Ihealyou]

Everyone can pull up maps on a spare computer or on the same computer when playing in a window.

It disheartens me to hear that people are doing this. Why haven't the devs addressed this disgusting modern feature?? Probably because TR uses EQAtlas.

[Messianic]

It disheartens me to hear that people are doing this. Why haven't the devs addressed this disgusting modern feature?? Probably because TR uses EQAtlas.

#Winning

[moklianne]

what does it matter? does having to alt tab to view a map online make you a better player or something? get over yourself

To be truly classic, you should have a full binder of all of the maps printed out....like I had.

[stormlord]

To be truly classic, you should have a full binder of all of the maps printed out....like I had.I never used any printouts. Just did it by sight alone. You learn pretty quick. Maybe I"m just a visual person. I know in other games I do the same thing, pretty much. Maps are ok sometimes, like when you're passing through a zone you don't know to get to a group in the adjacent zone, but I find them to be obstructive in most other cases, kind of like if my fingers were too big for the keys on the keyboard then it would be irritating.

The one thing about in-game maps I hated most was the X and V for players/corpses. The X isn't on p1999, but the V is. In fact, I wouldn't mind if we had maps for all of the zones, so long as the X/V were absent. There comes a point when the hand holding becomes too blatant. Some games go too far. It's a turn off. I understand that in some situations it's nice to have, but if all players were completely self-sufficient then we'd have no need to help each other and share our knowledge of the world. Some exchange of knowledge and/or services between players is not a bad thing. But just as too much hand holding can be bad, so can too little.

And another thing. I'm thinking of an old game named daggerfall. A lot of plaeyrs use the in-game map system when in the dungeons. I never have. I always just memorized as I went. Now, something occurred to me while arguing with a guy in a random forum about it. If the testers for the game ALSO used the in-game maps most of the time then their eyes weren't on the screen, they were on the map that represented what was around them. What occurred to me was that they only looked at what was immediately around them when they arrived at their destination or at random points during their travels. They probably missed a lot of things while doing that. Maybe that's why they never complained much about how the textures looked so similar from room to room or how the twists and turns were so similar or how there was seeming lack of landmark points. This string of thoughts led me to an insight. Perhaps all that staring at the in-game map left the actual environment so ignored that it became very difficult to travel without the maps. Another words, the prevalence of players and testers that look at maps might lead to a environment so dull and repetitive that nobody in their right mind would ever choose to travel without the maps. This is potentially a case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Players believe they need maps so they use them. This belief leads to environments so bland that a map is needed.

But one thing I've never seen mentioned about in-game maps is why did they never allow them to be traded in-game? A lot of players had troubles downloading them from the net and installing them. Even I had troubles doing that. It would have been a lot easier in some ways if players could have just went to the bazaar to get maps from other players. SOE didn't have to make the maps themselves because they gave players the tools they needed to make them. But they didn't give us a convenient way to share them with others. Just imagine you're in a zone and a player says in group chat that they don't have the map. If SOE had done it right then you could have just made the map(s) item(s) on the spot then traded it/them with that player and there'd be no 15-25 minute wait while the other player downloads and copies them to the maps folder, seriously. I recall one instance where friend of mine just could not figure it out. It wasn't funny, it was annoying.

[Deathrydar]

There is so much misunderstanding in this thread....

[Kika Maslyaka]

I think in game map is a good thing, but not how it was done in eq1.
the people will have a map one way or the other - I was drawing my own maps by hand, back in 99, until I discovered eqatlas, where someone already did all the maps, so there was no longer a point.
I like how they made maps in eq2 and wow - you actually need to run around exploring it, before its revealed (like in was in games like Baldurs Gates for example), rather than just downloading it a whole from someone else.

eq1 maps on other hand good for developers, when they need to measure and mark things, when designing a zone, but too technical and too exact for a player for a player for a supposedly rpg game.

[Malrubius]

Just delete your maps folder under your install directory.

[Zuranthium]

There is so much misunderstanding in this thread....

That's definitely a good way of putting it. Although my OP was a bit spastic.

[mwatt]

That's definitely a good way of putting it. Although my OP was a bit spastic.

I'm a big supporter of being as classic as possible. That having been said, it isn't possible to be 100% classic. This server gets close - it gets close enough. They can't help that the maps show up in newbie zones. However, that is not entirely a bad thing. Perhaps more brand new EQ players will be retained than would not if there were no newbie maps.

EQ has a pretty steep learning curve, in particular compared to modern MOs. Back in the day when we were completely lost upon creation of our first char (not just geographically) we persisted. In part because there was not much option. Today there are plenty of options. So, maps in the newbie zones? Seems like there might even be some good in it.

[DoucLangur]

For the purest classic experience you'll be wanting your spellbook back and that windowed UI with the blue around the edges and the scroll thing for messages. Nobody complained about that not coming back, or did they?

I do! I miss my UI with the rear-view mirror. For realz!

[DoucLangur]

To be truly classic, you should have a full binder of all of the maps printed out....like I had.

Hate to break it to you, but when I started in 2001, I only used 2-3 maps, maybe 5, and soon after I had most zones memorized - and eventually I had a dual head setup anyways, so that took care of wasting paper for printing out stuff ^^

[oddphase]

Hate to break it to you, but when I started in 2001, I only used 2-3 maps, maybe 5, and soon after I had most zones memorized - and eventually I had a dual head setup anyways, so that took care of wasting paper for printing out stuff ^^

This ^^

[Zuranthium]

I'm a big supporter of being as classic as possible. That having been said, it isn't possible to be 100% classic.

EQ has a pretty steep learning curve, in particular compared to modern MOs. Back in the day when we were completely lost upon creation of our first char (not just geographically) we persisted. In part because there was not much option. Today there are plenty of options. So, maps in the newbie zones? Seems like there might even be some good in it.

You raise some good points here. I'm on the fence now about whether this feature, for just the Newbie zones, is a beneficial thing.

[Kika Maslyaka]

You raise some good points here. I'm on the fence now about whether this feature, for just the Newbie zones, is a beneficial thing.

when i started my first dark elf char, it took me 45 min to figure out where the exit is... I am all on boat with immersion and all, but the map of Neriak that came with the manual wasn't great help ;)

[Zuranthium]

Yeah but the thing is, you're supposed to ask another player for help in-game if you can't figure something out. Then you learn and pass the knowledge along later on when someone else needs help. That was part of what made the game so strong: because community was inherently necessary.

For the time being, since the server population isn't staggering (but definitely doing well all considered), I do think I agree with the in-game mapping for newbie zones. But if the server population was double what it currently is, then I would think otherwise.

[notjasonlee]

i found this thread by searching for "young gay troll"

[Swish]

i found this thread by searching for "young gay troll"

What would make someone search for that? :rolleyes:

I used to be ultra hardcore and had locs written down on a spiral notepad (one page for each zone), and used to spam a "/loc" button and head for it.

Then EQ Atlas came along, and damn... those maps were the best thing that could go into a folder! The time Muse must have spent putting them together is unthinkable, and to this server at least they are still very relevant today. We owe him a few beers :)

[MegamanXZOBMV]

Newbie maps? Didn't even know EQLive had those. Then again, I haven't played Live in ages.

I don't see it being too big of a deal. Newbies who never really got to play EQ in it's classic form might find it pretty useful, places like Neriak can be hard to navigate. Others who have played it before probably don't need the maps. I signed up thinking I wouldn't remember where anything was, but I watched a few videos featuring Kelethin and Qeynos and found it was pretty easy to remember where things were. I probably won't use the map.

Definitely would've been helpful when EQ came out, but I'm glad it wasn't there. Nothing beats the hilarity of my Dad's first Wood Elf Ranger.. and the staggering amount of times he dropped off of Kelethin and made Elf-paint all over the floor of G-fay.