Make Scout Roll like Ring 8

[LazyHydras]

. . . in the sense that it becomes bring your own group. The player that wins must have a group there to handle the encounter.

[Ripqozko]

nah its fine, quit being lazy and help the group. hope that helps. move to resolved.

[Zipity]

Should make ring 8 like scout

[LazyHydras]

Should make ring 8 like scout

lol

[Ripqozko]

Should make ring 8 like scout

[hotkarlmarxbros]

nah its fine, quit being lazy and help the group. hope that helps. move to resolved.

aka "I would like to continue receiving charity pixels because my autistic and unlikeable personality does not lend itself well to making friends that would help me with this fight, so I need to rely on a server agreement to force others to help me"

Scout roll would be significantly better without the charity aspect. Would require an addition of an FTE message and timer to open it up to FFA to prevent any nonsense, though.

[feniin]

nah its fine, quit being lazy and help the group. hope that helps. move to resolved.

[LazyHydras]

aka "I would like to continue receiving charity pixels because my autistic and unlikeable personality does not lend itself well to making friends that would help me with this fight, so I need to rely on a server agreement to force others to help me"

Scout roll would be significantly better without the charity aspect. Would require an addition of an FTE message and timer to open it up to FFA to prevent any nonsense, though.

[Ennewi]

aka "I would like to continue receiving charity pixels because my autistic and unlikeable personality does not lend itself well to making friends that would help me with this fight, so I need to rely on a server agreement to force others to help me"

Scout roll would be significantly better without the charity aspect. Would require an addition of an FTE message and timer to open it up to FFA to prevent any nonsense, though.

Unlikable personality that does not lend itself well to making friends. Sorry you didn't get charity loot.

[ScottBerta]

Agree Ring 8 should be like scout

[Arvan]

You’re all playing a charity server for free they're all welfare pixels

[MaCtastic]

You’re all playing a charity server for free they're all welfare pixels

It’s funny cause it’s true.

[Swish]

Nice to see a Scout thread, been a while <3

[LazyHydras]

You’re all playing a charity server for free they're all welfare pixels

...damn, homie.

[Bondrake]

aka "I would like to continue receiving charity pixels because my autistic and unlikeable personality does not lend itself well to making friends that would help me with this fight, so I need to rely on a server agreement to force others to help me"

Scout roll would be significantly better without the charity aspect. Would require an addition of an FTE message and timer to open it up to FFA to prevent any nonsense, though.

So mad for some reason. Lmao. Ugly beta detected.

[elwing]

Yep, make ring8 like scout roll

[loramin]

You're all arguing over the wrong thing. This place isn't about "better" or "worse": it's about classic ... and there is no question that Scout would be more classic if you had to bring your own group, because that's what everyone did back in '01.

Personally I think a good fix would be to make it a /list camp, but you can only /list with a full group (since we don't have the concept of "raids" on P99, a full group will have to be a proxy for having a raid). This would ensure no one cheats, but everyone who does bring a group has a fair and equal chance to turn-in.

[elwing]

Don't bring green plague to our server

[Bondrake]

You're all arguing over the wrong thing. This place isn't about "better" or "worse": it's about classic ... and there is no question that Scout would be more classic if you had to bring your own group, because that's what everyone did back in '01.

Personally I think a good fix would be to make it a /list camp, but you can only /list with a full group (since we don't have the concept of "raids" on P99, a full group will have to be a proxy for having a raid). This would ensure no one cheats, but everyone who does bring a group has a fair and equal chance to turn-in.

Stupid idea.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Scout, Ring 8, and Angry should be: roll on spawn, rolls valid for 15s from first roll, 1m to turn in from spawn, 1m to engage captain/chief/skargus from spawn, ffa for anything outside of that with hand-in message modified to contain pc name if it doesn't already and fte message for kill mobs.

People don't realize they are shooting themselves in the foot by not frontloading the preparedness requirement. Everyone could be done by attending a handful of these rolls, but because people want the charity approach you have every swinging dick on the server rolling for their 17th alts every roll, every time.

Also, the concept of this server trying to recreate classic as faithfully as possible is a complete joke. This server is customized to the whims of the admins, with the "classic" argument being thrown around strictly when it conveniently aligns with what they want, and either left out entirely or given excuses for when it isn't convenient. The server isn't good because it is classic, the server is good because of all the hard work that went into making this game by the original dev team. To make the game shittier when better options exist that the original devs either DID choose to implement in a later expansion or WOULD'VE implemented if they had the time/resources to almost feels like it is mockingly insulting them for not having every resource and idea available to make the game perfect from day 1.

[xdrcfrx]

scout is one of the last things on the server where people don't bother paying attention to guild tags, there's no one breathing down your neck, and everyone just helps because it's ultimately better for everyone.

scout is never going to be like it was on classic, because classic didn't spend 5+ years in velious. was anybody bothering to help Leuz with his task, once luclin and PoP were in the mix? I'd suspect not.

There's no reason to make scout an objectively worse experience seeking to recreate a thing which cannot be recreated. The barrier for entry is stupid low. just go get the tools, and roll. sooner or later you'll be the winner.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

So that is a great example of one less person everyone would have to roll against with a reasonable set of rules. Anybody else want to chime in to help me prove my point?

[xdrcfrx]

your suggestion(s) would just turn scout into a game of "how many guildies can I get to show up and roll with me?" and would at the same encourage the same asinine rule lawyering that makes a lot of the rest of p99 a less than rewarding experience. Counting seconds until scout turnin goes FFA, arguing about who turned in too early, or many other things we could start to slice and examine in minute detail. I understand that you want to be able to lock down scout with your guild and sell the loot rights or whatever.

There's no reason to treat scout any differently than it currently operates. Working perfectly fine, and has been for a long while. One less person to roll against? I'm already at scout like 2-3 times a week at the most, as convenience allows. The rules are reasonable as is.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

You're right, I left out the original rules that I agree with. Would still have to be winning roll loots and turns in, no LR sales. Scout can be done with less than a full group, and Angry and Ring 8 can be duoed. Angry already has this timed aspect, and as we've seen from other rnf threads, is rarely enforced. Likely only if the staff feels one way about a party, then they are free to punish or 'let them off with a warning' depending on who it is and how they are feeling that day.

As for the "fine as is" argument, I would argue that it is very Not Fine As Is.

Ring 8 roll seems to have been cleaned up a bit as it became more popular and had its wiki entry updated, so rather than a small group of people arguing there are only a few people who are out of line and easily told to fall in line by the majority. But you still have to wait a minimum of 30 minutes after winning a roll, and that's only right after a quake. As the timer drifts you are stuck waiting increasing amounts of time and the opportunity for shenanigans only increases (people selling LR, looting on non-winning characters, others coming up demanding a roll, etc). Roll on pop would eliminate all of that, and if things weren't above board it would be easily documented and sent to GMs (or more likely here for a thorough roasting first).

Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.

[xdrcfrx]

for what it's worth, I actually mostly agree with you about ring roll. I spent a very long time there trying to win it (like, 80+ attempts before I finally won), and haven't bothered to try on any other toons because of how terrible the experience was. if it was roll on spawn, or if the time for the roll could be moved once the delay got overly long, that would probably help.

I think scout could be made better simply by adding to the rules "level X is required." Could debate about the appropriate level to allow, but this would solve the problem of low level toons who can't contribute to the encounter adding to the number of people rolling. Already you'll get some people who won't bother helping someone that cons green, and this doesn't appear to be held against them in the same way not helping the winner usually is.

Other than a level req. though, i feel like changing scout would make it even worse.

[Ripqozko]

I hope you get scout one day smashh

[LazyHydras]

The thing about it is this — mathematically, at this juncture, it's possible to never win a scout roll in the lifespan of Blue server because there will always be some random alt parked there. . . the number of people rarely diminishes (except, perhaps, right now because Kunark recently came out on Green). While this is infinitely better than just losing it to someone using an auto clicker for the sake of denying others the ability to attempt the encounter, this also means that anyone can do the encounter regardless of preparedness or even the ability to realistically take it on. In other words, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

[Fammaden]

I've won six times, therefore its fine.

EDIT: Scout, not ring 8.

[Bondrake]

You're right, I left out the original rules that I agree with. Would still have to be winning roll loots and turns in, no LR sales. Scout can be done with less than a full group, and Angry and Ring 8 can be duoed. Angry already has this timed aspect, and as we've seen from other rnf threads, is rarely enforced. Likely only if the staff feels one way about a party, then they are free to punish or 'let them off with a warning' depending on who it is and how they are feeling that day.

As for the "fine as is" argument, I would argue that it is very Not Fine As Is.

Ring 8 roll seems to have been cleaned up a bit as it became more popular and had its wiki entry updated, so rather than a small group of people arguing there are only a few people who are out of line and easily told to fall in line by the majority. But you still have to wait a minimum of 30 minutes after winning a roll, and that's only right after a quake. As the timer drifts you are stuck waiting increasing amounts of time and the opportunity for shenanigans only increases (people selling LR, looting on non-winning characters, others coming up demanding a roll, etc). Roll on pop would eliminate all of that, and if things weren't above board it would be easily documented and sent to GMs (or more likely here for a thorough roasting first).

Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.

You're a fcking weirdo. It's a video game, who cares this much. Get a life and go outside.

[LazyHydras]

Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.


This is basically my point. I am bound by a ruling that I don't agree with to help someone who just parks a toon there that they don't use just because it's free end-game loot. Most of the people who attend the roll probably have 2 / 4 / 6 bracers and a couple talismans anyway, so their 6th alt who needs a talisman or something is fair game to sit there and get more free pixels.

I don't attend scout regularly because I actually use my character and have other things to do to where I can't login every 10 hours or park my toon there in anticipation of rolling for free pixels. I am more than capable of gathering a group to do it, but the idea of sitting in line behind a random lvl50 alt or even a lvl60 alt of someone who has probably won scout roll numerous times is rather frustrating. I haven't won a roll yet and there's not a good likelihood that i will win a roll any time soon. Hell, I may even have a Dozekar bracer before I get the stupid BoB, lol.

[PL_Barton]

This is a Neph post, it belongs in RNF

[loramin]

your suggestion(s) would just turn scout into a game of "how many guildies can I get to show up and roll with me?" and would at the same encourage the same asinine rule lawyering that makes a lot of the rest of p99 a less than rewarding experience. Counting seconds until scout turnin goes FFA, arguing about who turned in too early, or many other things we could start to slice and examine in minute detail. I understand that you want to be able to lock down scout with your guild and sell the loot rights or whatever.

There's no reason to treat scout any differently than it currently operates. Working perfectly fine, and has been for a long while. One less person to roll against? I'm already at scout like 2-3 times a week at the most, as convenience allows. The rules are reasonable as is.

No, my suggestion removes the unclassic game we've made up here, and restores the game to the way it was in '01. And that game was ...

a game of "how many guildies can I get to show up"

Scout was never meant to be a loot pinata for the server! Like all the rest of the major Velious quests, it was intended solely for players in (high-end) guilds, and you were expected to bring a raid force with you to do it.

Just look at Spirit of Garzicor, Dain Ring, or any of the others: they all require a high-end guild, because Velious was mainly a high-end raiding expansion (it didn't increase the level cap, so they had to have something for the large number of level 60s to do).

The only exception was the Shawl quest, and that's because it was the "tradeskill epic". So again, it doesn't matter if everyone likes soloing more and showing up to roll for phat lewtz; the whole point of this place is classic EQ, and classic EQ was a game where having friends was considered a plus.

[xdrcfrx]

No, my suggestion removes the unclassic game we've made up here, and restores the game to the way it was in '01. And that game was ...



Scout was never meant to be a loot pinata for the server! Like all the rest of the major Velious quests, it was intended solely for players in (high-end) guilds, and you were expected to bring a raid force with you to do it.

Just look at Spirit of Garzicor, Dain Ring, or any of the others: they all require a high-end guild, because Velious was mainly a high-end raiding expansion (it didn't increase the level cap, so they had to have something for the large number of level 60s to do).

The only exception was the Shawl quest, and that's because it was the "tradeskill epic". So again, it doesn't matter if everyone likes soloing more and showing up to roll for phat lewtz; the whole point of this place is classic EQ, and classic EQ was a game where having friends was considered a plus.

p99 blue is never going to be like classic because classic wasn't still in velious five years later. in the context of a server that's already selectively classic in a number of different ways, seeking to make scout worse for everybody because of some kind of classic fundamentalism is misguided. we've already been given enough hair shirts to wear. current rule set leaves scout predictable, keeps the window drift to a minimum, and makes the quest accessible to everyone. scout works fine.

Also: why start with "no," and disagree, if you're ultimately just conceding that yes, you do want to turn scout into a game of "who can bring the most guildies."

[LazyHydras]

This is a Neph post, it belongs in RNF

lol, good one.

[wwoneo]

Agree Ring 8 should be like scout

[MarauderOHHYEAH]

im 0-122 lifetime on scout.. and it's fine the way it is.. jesus you people are greedy

[regandna]

This is a Neph post, it belongs in RNF

Send it!

[LazyHydras]

So, is this ever going to happen? Or, as Loramin pointed out, are people going to be content with the current meta of "loot pinata for the server" ?

[wwoneo]

So, is this ever going to happen? Or, as Loramin pointed out, are people going to be content with the current meta of "loot pinata for the server" ?

Everybody loves a good pinata.

[Hisamori]

Make Ring 8 and Ring 10 like scout.

[Arvan]

Scout, Ring 8, and Angry should be: roll on spawn, rolls valid for 15s from first roll, 1m to turn in from spawn, 1m to engage captain/chief/skargus from spawn, ffa for anything outside of that with hand-in message modified to contain pc name if it doesn't already and fte message for kill mobs.

People don't realize they are shooting themselves in the foot by not frontloading the preparedness requirement. Everyone could be done by attending a handful of these rolls, but because people want the charity approach you have every swinging dick on the server rolling for their 17th alts every roll, every time.

Also, the concept of this server trying to recreate classic as faithfully as possible is a complete joke. This server is customized to the whims of the admins, with the "classic" argument being thrown around strictly when it conveniently aligns with what they want, and either left out entirely or given excuses for when it isn't convenient. The server isn't good because it is classic, the server is good because of all the hard work that went into making this game by the original dev team. To make the game shittier when better options exist that the original devs either DID choose to implement in a later expansion or WOULD'VE implemented if they had the time/resources to almost feels like it is mockingly insulting them for not having every resource and idea available to make the game perfect from day 1.

Terrible ideas but quite a fun username