Iksar SK weapon question.

[ScottBerta]

My primary alt is a pretty well geared 60 Iksar Sk.

He currently uses Greenmist and I enjoy the weapon because of the proc and stats it adds. It also allows me to use a shield which add more stats and provides me with ability to bash. However it doesn’t do a great amount of damage. My question is would getting my actual SK Epic (would have to buy LR for 75k part) actually benefit me (all around) far more than using my Greenmist/Shield? Would cost justify the potential upgrade? It should also be mentioned I don’t raid, I mostly will just duo that char in sebilis or other zones with my brothers few lvl 60 chars. Mostly duo my Sk with enc or shaman.

[elwing]

Just for info, greenmist and epic proc stack for a 80 hp tap total

[Swish]

It's nice to have the epic for the character completion feeling, no doubt about it... but remember a lot of times you're tanking and you want that shield AC anyway.

I never finished my SK epic. I'd like it just for completion but honestly I'm not sure I'd use it unless someone else was tanking something.

Depends on your playstyle perhaps :)

[Danth]

...but honestly I'm not sure I'd use it unless someone else was tanking something.

You would. The epic proc reduces the incoming healing you need a lot more than 40 or 50 AC does. The only time I put a shield on is when I need to absorb hits from something that hits VERY hard and hasn't been slowed yet; once slowed I switch back to the epic anyway.

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I don't have a Greenmist being as I'm not an Iksar. I do have Innoruuk's Curse. Looking at Greenmist on P99 wiki, if I had that I probably wouldn't be overly concerned with getting the regular epic. Looks like a case of "six of one, half dozen of the other." Less health per tick on the Greenmist proc, but you can wear a shield and it lasts longer.

How well does the Greenmist proc land on stuff that's REALLY resistant (like the kind of stuff that takes the shaman 5-6 tries to land slow)? Does it have a resist modifier like the epic proc has? That might influence your decision. I suppose you'd also take about twice as many ripostes with the Greenmist. It still seems like a lot of plat to spend on something that's probably only a modest improvement, not a dramatic one.

Danth

[Ennewi]

Epic proc lands on most everything the majority of the time, even targets that resist shround of un/death. Even against something as resistant as Strong Horn (https://wiki.project1999.com/Strong_Horn) it lands more than 50% of the time. And what it lacks in damage output compared to high end Velious weapons, it makes up for in self-sustainability. If you're seeing few resists off Greenmist, it's probably best to invest your plat elsewhere though.

[elwing]

Having both on an alt, I use epic for dps, when it proc I switvh to greenmist to try to get a second and I return to epic... Epic dps way better, greenmist get you better tanking stats, so solo => epic mainly, group => greenmist, raid => epic

[Crede]

I can’t imagine epic just blows away greenmist. It’s slow and the ratio isn’t that far off. Based on your usage if you need more dps id just pick up a Lance or reaver, you have a healer partner so you don’t need to proc 2 epics unless you want the sk epic for looks.

[Andyman1022]

The main reason to have both is to stack the procs for solo. Also as others have mentioned the IC proc lands way easier on MR targets, and is a nice low aggro weapon for raiding. Imo worth it.

[elwing]

@crede epic dps way better just like any 2hander due to the new damage bonus, I get around 15more dps on epic vs icecone abd that's without factoring in the proc on easy targets

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Shadowknights just don't do a ton of damage sadly. Epic would be better DPS due to the 2H damage improvements made recently, but 40/45 isn't an amazing ratio. I would advise buying a Narandi's lance or reaver first (both cost around 10k), and check to see if there is a vast improvement over Greenmist in terms of DPS. If not, Epic would be a waste of money to buy for DPS purposes. The proc on Epic is the main reason to get it.

[elwing]

There is a vaste improvement, yes, and then you can stack the taps

[DeathsSilkyMist]

There is a vaste improvement, yes, and then you can stack the taps

This isn't as great as people think. You have to get lucky enough to proc both weapons while the other tap is going. Even then, the stacking benefit greatly varies based on which tick the dot is on. Most of the time you will get one or the other, not both together. Greenmist is an inferior tap to Epic, so you just end up disappointed when that procs instead of Epic.

[elwing]

Well, I main epic and only when it proc switch to greenmist hoping for a proc abd switching back to epic as soon as it proc or when the original tap is fading.

[Andyman1022]

This isn't as great as people think. You have to get lucky enough to proc both weapons while the other tap is going. Even then, the stacking benefit greatly varies based on which tick the dot is on. Most of the time you will get one or the other, not both together. Greenmist is an inferior tap to Epic, so you just end up disappointed when that procs instead of Epic.

The greenmist recourse is 8 ticks @ 30 a tick for 240 damage but also adds ac and atk. So the greenmist over its course is only 10 damage/healing less assuming you don’t have full hp.

When soloing, I start with greenmist and then swap to epic as soon as it procs. At 177/187 unbuffed dex I am able to layer the procs fairly consistently (of course RNG prevents this from happening from time to time).

With the greenmist proc lasting 3 ticks longer than epic, it is worthwhile to start with the GM as it gives a greater chance of stacking the two. Also I don’t look at it as having to have the procs tick line up exactly perfect, it’s the healing total I care about since any healing you get from these means less mana intensive lifetaps you have to use to keep going.

[Snaggles]

I’d always have the IC be a grail or active mission if you can farm the plat. The GM is great for tanking and solo but that AC debuff is 400 hate you don’t need. Plus lower dps than the 2h. Plus if you get a 1.15’ish ratio 2h and are using it primarily the epic is an easy swap-to-bash toy. I do that occasionally with the pally when interrupts are important and I’m feeling like putting in an effort beyond just aggro.

So yea, as a raider the IC has a real purpose over GM. A bit less in the group content but would still be my go-to. The GM might be better if doing mini raid stuff like tanking Fay and you have a good shield. It has 25mr on it so a 50’ish AC shield in combo is pretty great.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The greenmist recourse is 8 ticks @ 30 a tick for 240 damage but also adds ac and atk. So the greenmist over its course is only 10 damage/healing less assuming you don’t have full hp.

When soloing, I start with greenmist and then swap to epic as soon as it procs. At 177/187 unbuffed dex I am able to layer the procs fairly consistently (of course RNG prevents this from happening from time to time).

With the greenmist proc lasting 3 ticks longer than epic, it is worthwhile to start with the GM as it gives a greater chance of stacking the two. Also I don’t look at it as having to have the procs tick line up exactly perfect, it’s the healing total I care about since any healing you get from these means less mana intensive lifetaps you have to use to keep going.

That is what I am saying, the total HP gained from stacking isn't as great as people think. This is because procing IC refreshes the DoT.

Best case scenario for stacking the DoTs is 490 HP gained if you proc both weapons within 6 seconds of one another.

If you proc IC twice, the second time after the third tick of the first DoT, you get at least 400 HP total. As you can see, the difference isn't all that much. The loss on DPS when switching to Greenmist may also lengthen the fight, which means you will get less returns on the HP gains due to more damage taken.

[Andyman1022]

That is what I am saying, the total HP gained from stacking isn't as great as people think. This is because procing IC refreshes the DoT.

Best case scenario for stacking the DoTs is 490 HP gained if you proc both weapons within 6 seconds of one another.

If you proc IC twice, the second time after the third tick of the first DoT, you get at least 400 HP total. As you can see, the difference isn't all that much. The loss on DPS when switching to Greenmist may also lengthen the fight, which means you will get less returns on the HP gains due to more damage taken.

Have you tried using both in practice? I noticed your sk is a troll..

By the way I hear what you are saying, I may try to use epic primarily and ignore GM and see how I do... you are right, if the epic refreshes then the healing potential seems to be the same..

[Snaggles]

DeathsSilkyMist does bring up a solid point there, the longer the GM goes unprocced the more the ideal "double proc" scenario fades away. Perhaps just swap it out for a tick or two and have the restraint to go back to the IC?

I did a modified version this with my warrior and the Truncheon of Doom before defensive disc. Had my own rule that I would get the mob to 80% with the ToD and if no proc just swap to the Reaver. Continuing to roll the dice on RNG when ratio is a constant you can rely on is a Gamblers Folly (IMHO, but I'm not a gambler). Then again, lady luck did shine down frequently in a first or second swing proc trivializing the fight. Id still give this a crack with the GM.

There are many reasons to have both anyways. The GM is a fun but very attainable epic knock-off. Once you get the IC it still has a purpose as a terrific tank weapon; a shame it doesn't have hps too but that is asking for a lot :).

[elwing]

Yep, that's what I do, epic, then switch gm for 2-3ticks after a proc.