View Full Version : Seal Team removes ourselves from all player agreements
Twochain
02-09-2021, 11:37 PM
p99 wasnt recreated so one guild can dominate a server. It was created so people can enjoy the experience of the original content. 2nd many servers had guilds that came to agreements to rotate content and took turns raiding the planes etc. to pretend like only the most populous guild on the server has the right to enjoy the end game content is dumb. when one guild creates an environment where 75 percent of the people playing are shat on goes directly against why p99 was created.
P99 was created with classic EQ in mind. VP was created for hardcore players.
Every guild has an equal “right” to mobs. If your guild is struggling, form alliances. Everyone IS free to enjoy the end game content. You shouldn’t force the GMs to give your guild a turn because a server with thousands of players can’t pool together and beat one guild.
Twochain
02-09-2021, 11:44 PM
IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.
If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.
Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.
Fammaden
02-09-2021, 11:53 PM
P99 was created with classic EQ in mind. VP was created for hardcore players.
Every guild has an equal “right” to mobs. If your guild is struggling, form alliances. Everyone IS free to enjoy the end game content. You shouldn’t force the GMs to give your guild a turn because a server with thousands of players can’t pool together and beat one guild.
I don't think these guilds mind the losing part, or for the most part even mind that they aren't in VP. When they lose outright they chalk it up to inexperience, mistakes, being out manned and out strategized. They give ST their due in that regard.
What they can't stomach, and many didn't expect coming into P99 for green, is that they not only lose most of the time but are never allowed to win either. In P99's raid meta, the dominant guild has a real knack for never accepting defeat even when its handed to them as clear as day when the little guy prevailed for a change. Its always straight to the lawyerquest, fishing for concessions to block the competition out of future attempts.
You know this damn well with your experience. How many times have you been involved in a situation like "we can't contest this mob at this time of day, but we can go pressure Riot with our tiny force and try to make them screw up and give us something to petition"? That's the overriding meta that raid guilds here operate under.
On blue you have two and three entities at a time who are fluent in this back and forth and have played it against each other for years. These green guilds however, they came in and found out that even when David beats Goliath a win is never ever allowed to stand on its merits.
Competitive people pat the opponent on the back and say good game see you next time. Bullies do everything they can to beat your morale down and try to intimidate you to never try again.
So when you see these green dudes saying these things, its not that they hate ST for spending more time or having more people or working harder at being on top. They hate all the effort that goes into rigging the game when they do take a loss. And they weren't prepared to see this coming from outside of the blue raid scene as so many on green have.
unsunghero
02-09-2021, 11:53 PM
IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.
If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.
Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.
The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc
I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away
Twochain
02-10-2021, 12:00 AM
Nothing about your competitive meta is intrinsic to Everquest. Its all things that P99 has shoehorned into place in order to address player behaviors and try to reduce guilds butting heads at raids, not induce more conflict.
FTE messages, lockouts, 16 hour variance windows, the entire rulebook and petitionquest meta surrounding the raid scene..... Those are the aspects that your crew has learned to run game around, and to be fair you've done a superior job in dominating that mini game. But none of it was put in place as a means to an end for game design reasons, it evolved because of the player behaviors that they didn't want to leave unchecked.
And if the owners of the box are sick of it they have every right and reason to force it to end or change. Rotations are very very classic, many servers used them, enforcing them would not be an affront to EQ's legacy whatsoever. Neither would doing hard resets (quakes) more often, as all the servers were frequently brought down for maintenance resulting in repops that both the top hardcore and lowest casual units could feast upon.
Quakes yes. I doubt the GMs want to quake the server for us right now.
Full rotations?
Idk man. EverQuest is either casual or it’s not. I haven’t seen very many examples of in era end game raid mobs being rotated. If your hard core enough to get to level 60 in kunark, your hard core enough to form an alliance with other guilds. Networking is one of the fun parts of the game.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 12:01 AM
The only one I can remember first hand who woke sleeper on both servers is sussy. https://twitch.tv/sussypoo
The eqmac sleeper was awakened by less than 10 people boxxing a few accounts. I think my wizard was used for it. I was invited, but was busy that day. It was done a few months after the guild we were in stopped raiding on that server.
How fucking childish can you be. You guys were done with the server so you decided to ruin it for everyone else? REALLY exemplifies the mentality of entitlement that some people have.
Just wow
Scalem
02-10-2021, 12:02 AM
Right. There was no competition. There was one guild, and then the rest. Vp on live (and I’d really love to hear input from somebody who did it in era on live) was probably dominated by one guild on 90% of the servers. I guanrintee you a ST raid is a lot more cooperative than in era raiding guilds.
The first guild in the world to clear Vp did it just prior to Velious launch. VP was cleared as soon as ST had enough people keyed and then it was done in less then a day. Yea there usually was only one guild that dominated the raiding scene on most servers because back then there was usually only one or two guilds that actually “competes” for raids. I remember plenty of times back then where dragons would sit up for days. Very few if any guilds sat at their PCs all day poop socking or woke up in the middle of the night to Zerg down a boss in 30 seconds.
Twochain
02-10-2021, 12:13 AM
The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc
I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away
A lot of people have the wrong idea of raiding. I thought the same thing before I joined a big raiding guild. The common explanation is that you have to play 3 million hours a week to get gear. It’s not true. If you have enough players in your group, you can come and go as you please.
Classic was much more about exploring the world and making friends. It’s not a classic problem to have as many max level toons as fast as there are here.
It’s only a zero sum game because people cry about seal team winning instead of banding together and beating the other guys. I mean is every raider on the server in Seal Team?
Progression? The best items in kunark drop off of myconid spore king. That can be trio’d
Fammaden
02-10-2021, 12:18 AM
It’s only a zero sum game because people cry about seal team winning instead of banding together and beating the other guys. I mean is every raider on the server in Seal Team?
Again, because it was stuck on the last post of the previous page:
I don't think these guilds mind the losing part, or for the most part even mind that they aren't in VP. When they lose outright they chalk it up to inexperience, mistakes, being out manned and out strategized. They give ST their due in that regard.
What they can't stomach, and many didn't expect coming into P99 for green, is that they not only lose most of the time but are never allowed to win either. In P99's raid meta, the dominant guild has a real knack for never accepting defeat even when its handed to them as clear as day when the little guy prevailed for a change. Its always straight to the lawyerquest, fishing for concessions to block the competition out of future attempts.
You know this damn well with your experience. How many times have you been involved in a situation like "we can't contest this mob at this time of day, but we can go pressure Riot with our tiny force and try to make them screw up and give us something to petition"? That's the overriding meta that raid guilds here operate under.
On blue you have two and three entities at a time who are fluent in this back and forth and have played it against each other for years. These green guilds however, they came in and found out that even when David beats Goliath a win is never ever allowed to stand on its merits.
Competitive people pat the opponent on the back and say good game see you next time. Bullies do everything they can to beat your morale down and try to intimidate you to never try again.
So when you see these green dudes saying these things, its not that they hate ST for spending more time or having more people or working harder at being on top. They hate all the effort that goes into rigging the game when they do take a loss. And they weren't prepared to see this coming from outside of the blue raid scene as so many on green have.
Its not just about losing or being at a disadvantage. And its disingenuous of you to suggest that this is all that's at play in the raid meta here.
getsome
02-10-2021, 12:20 AM
How fucking childish can you be. You guys were done with the server so you decided to ruin it for everyone else? REALLY exemplifies the mentality of entitlement that some people have.
Just wow
mhKcjg3Lkog
Twochain
02-10-2021, 12:49 AM
I don't think these guilds mind the losing part, or for the most part even mind that they aren't in VP. When they lose outright they chalk it up to inexperience, mistakes, being out manned and out strategized. They give ST their due in that regard.
What they can't stomach, and many didn't expect coming into P99 for green, is that they not only lose most of the time but are never allowed to win either. In P99's raid meta, the dominant guild has a real knack for never accepting defeat even when its handed to them as clear as day when the little guy prevailed for a change. Its always straight to the lawyerquest, fishing for concessions to block the competition out of future attempts.
You know this damn well with your experience. How many times have you been involved in a situation like "we can't contest this mob at this time of day, but we can go pressure Riot with our tiny force and try to make them screw up and give us something to petition"? That's the overriding meta that raid guilds here operate under.
On blue you have two and three entities at a time who are fluent in this back and forth and have played it against each other for years. These green guilds however, they came in and found out that even when David beats Goliath a win is never ever allowed to stand on its merits.
Competitive people pat the opponent on the back and say good game see you next time. Bullies do everything they can to beat your morale down and try to intimidate you to never try again.
So when you see these green dudes saying these things, its not that they hate ST for spending more time or having more people or working harder at being on top. They hate all the effort that goes into rigging the game when they do take a loss. And they weren't prepared to see this coming from outside of the blue raid scene as so many on green have.
I’ll agree that if I was the guild leader of Seal Team, I would 100% give leniency to lesser guilds when it came to the rule book on everything outside of blatant trains. The rules are long and confusing, especially to new raiders. If we’re talking the #2 guild, they should know better and be expected to follow the same rules.
Is the gap between 1 and 2-5 really that big on green??
Geeze, I’ll raid lead trak if someone has a bot account. I’m sure I could find some other seasoned veterans to help out the cause.
This guy knows how to hold a grudge.
To quote a great man:
"It is what it is"
LuffyP99
02-10-2021, 02:17 AM
How did this thread become about anything except the fact that ST acted like a pathetic child, deleted the UN, welched on their agreements with the other guilds and STOLE ~30 god level targets from guilds who were following the rules that ST agreed to?
It was an absolutely pathetic display and anyone in that guild who isn't ashamed of that is full of shit. It has nothing to do with a GM issued sanction that was out of player hands, or ST being dominant. That's BS anyway, they just have 2-3x as many members as any other guild. Yeah, you want competition. BS, you want to poach all the talented members of the smaller guilds then go on a rant about 'how op' you are. What a joke. I hope they stay banned over a month or dissolve, they lost my respect with these recent actions. There's plenty of good ST members in the guild I am friends with, but if you don't leave a guild after this disgustingly toxic behavior, my opinion of you changes. Not even a public apology or any attempt to make things right to the guild's they completely fucked over, just because they can't win a noble race.
Twochain
02-10-2021, 02:27 AM
How did this thread become about anything except the fact that ST acted like a pathetic child, deleted the UN, welched on their agreements with the other guilds and STOLE ~30 god level targets from guilds who were following the rules that ST agreed to?
It was an absolutely pathetic display and anyone in that guild who isn't ashamed of that is full of shit. It has nothing to do with a GM issued sanction that was out of player hands, or ST being dominant. That's BS anyway, they just have 2-3x as many members as any other guild. Yeah, you want competition. BS, you want to poach all the talented members of the smaller guilds then go on a rant about 'how op' you are. What a joke. I hope they stay banned over a month or dissolve, they lost my respect with these recent actions. There's plenty of good ST members in the guild I am friends with, but if you don't leave a guild after this disgustingly toxic behavior, my opinion of you changes. Not even a public apology or any attempt to make things right to the guild's they completely fucked over, just because they can't win a noble race.
what 30 god tier targets were stolen
silo32
02-10-2021, 02:37 AM
GM's killing green the way they did red. I see nothing has changed.
Albanwr
02-10-2021, 03:38 AM
I know great people in ST. I have no idea why they have not left yet. I know they don't agree with this shit. I know they know this is all sorts of fucked up. Yet they stay in the guild.
I guess I know what they really are deep down.
Tunabros
02-10-2021, 03:39 AM
I know great people in ST. I have no idea why they have not left yet. I know they don't agree with this shit. I know they know this is all sorts of fucked up. Yet they stay in the guild.
I guess I know what they really are deep down.
they still can't raid if they leave
GM's killing green the way they did red. I see nothing has changed.
red jhas always been completely desolate what are you even talking about lolol
Larken
02-10-2021, 04:25 AM
Why isn't anyone at least discussing the one way of settling this never ending mess with some form of PvP? There could be several options, I'm not advocating to copy red99, but after weighin all pros and cons some form of pvp to settle this mess is to me the only logical conclusion. Convince me otherwise please.
Raid zone pvp flagging?
Raid guilds pvp flagging each other, limited only to certain zones adjacent to raid zones?
Have guilds the option to declare war against another guild. For example, a minimum of 3 guilds independent of eachtoerh with x# of members can PvP flag another guild. (In case a guild is being scummy, then other guilds will put them in place)
I mean just consider how different things would be and how much nicer guilds could potentially treat each other. 1 guild being dicks? Well, all the smaller guild join up and take them out to teach them a lesson. It's just a different way of gaming life and sometimes I think you all don't give it a fair chance of consideration but rather just say "look at what a mess red is, therefore pvp doesn't work" - which is a flawed logic IMO.
Why isn't anyone at least discussing the one way of settling this never ending mess with some form of PvP? There could be several options, I'm not advocating to copy red99, but after weighin all pros and cons some form of pvp to settle this mess is to me the only logical conclusion. Convince me otherwise please.
Raid zone pvp flagging?
Raid guilds pvp flagging each other, limited only to certain zones adjacent to raid zones?
Have guilds the option to declare war against another guild. For example, a minimum of 3 guilds independent of eachtoerh with x# of members can PvP flag another guild. (In case a guild is being scummy, then other guilds will put them in place)
I mean just consider how different things would be and how much nicer guilds could potentially treat each other. 1 guild being dicks? Well, all the smaller guild join up and take them out to teach them a lesson. It's just a different way of gaming life and sometimes I think you all don't give it a fair chance of consideration but rather just say "look at what a mess red is, therefore pvp doesn't work" - which is a flawed logic IMO.
sorry what thread are you taking part in? I've only taken cursory glances at the threads surrounding this situation and red/pvp has been mentioned 5 or 6 times.
Imago
02-10-2021, 05:22 AM
Real easy.
/guildwar XXX (in this case ST)
Flagged for pvp for/against anyone in that guild.
1) 1 dumbass uses it to rage against a raid force? He's the only one flagged, gets curbstomped, etc etc.
2) 100 dumbasses use it against a raid force? Might kill the raid and give another guild a chance.
This was a function on live. Also have seen Guild Champions fight for the right to raid targets on Live (not classic but dope as fuck).
Get creative with self management or get the fuck out.
quido
02-10-2021, 07:17 AM
I would destroy everyone in this thread in a fist fight.
Mesocyclone
02-10-2021, 07:41 AM
aint nobody cares
getsome
02-10-2021, 08:12 AM
I would destroy everyone in this thread in a fist fight.
I thought you did battle with packets?
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221029&highlight=packets+death
http://i.imgur.com/iEbpb.jpg
BlackBellamy
02-10-2021, 10:09 AM
How did this thread become about anything except the fact that ST acted like a pathetic child, deleted the UN, welched on their agreements with the other guilds and STOLE ~30 god level targets from guilds who were following the rules that ST agreed to?
BS, you want to poach all the talented members of the smaller guilds then go on a rant about 'how op' you are.
I remember in the beginning of Green how Seal Team aggressively went after all the clerics. You had guilds moaning how they lost their healers all of a sudden.
mattrat
02-10-2021, 10:46 AM
Why isn't anyone at least discussing the one way of settling this never ending mess with some form of PvP? There could be several options, I'm not advocating to copy red99, but after weighin all pros and cons some form of pvp to settle this mess is to me the only logical conclusion. Convince me otherwise please.
Raid zone pvp flagging?
Raid guilds pvp flagging each other, limited only to certain zones adjacent to raid zones?
Have guilds the option to declare war against another guild. For example, a minimum of 3 guilds independent of eachtoerh with x# of members can PvP flag another guild. (In case a guild is being scummy, then other guilds will put them in place)
I mean just consider how different things would be and how much nicer guilds could potentially treat each other. 1 guild being dicks? Well, all the smaller guild join up and take them out to teach them a lesson. It's just a different way of gaming life and sometimes I think you all don't give it a fair chance of consideration but rather just say "look at what a mess red is, therefore pvp doesn't work" - which is a flawed logic IMO.
You're forgetting how bad the EQ combat system is. There is a reason no one ever has or ever will play EQ for the PvP.
OuterChimp
02-10-2021, 10:48 AM
I blame Bladefrenzy for all of this!
Relbaic
02-10-2021, 01:28 PM
I remember in the beginning of Green how Seal Team aggressively went after all the clerics. You had guilds moaning how they lost their healers all of a sudden.
They've also tried to merge with at least 2 of the other raiding guilds, on top of Lineage, with no success.
LuffyP99
02-10-2021, 04:21 PM
what 30 god tier targets were stolen
There was a UN agreement that the winner of the weekly Noble race would be able to leave their Hand / OOA mobs up, so that a new noble would spawn every 3 days for a month. This results in a total of 11 kills (instead of the normal 3, noble/hand/ooa). This deal was agreed to be all the top guilds who have noble killing capabilities, including ST. Over the next 3 weeks, kingdom won twice, federation won once. When the GM issued the new 3 trak requires the 4th to be conceded rule (had nothing to do with player decision), ST went and killed the 3 OOA / Hands that were up. Depriving the guilds who practiced the race, following the rules, of their remaining ~28 uncontested noble kills, per the arrangement. They won't even apologize for completing screwing over 4-5 unique guilds, which means they are happy with their fucked up decision. Gross.
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 04:46 PM
Rotated content or lobbying for it was agreed to be a total violation of the UN terms and guarantee of open raid targets.
No one has broken any server rules to my knowledge. One breached player agreement led to another.
Local
02-10-2021, 04:55 PM
Rotated content or lobbying for it was agreed to be a total violation of the UN terms and guarantee of open raid targets.
No one has broken any server rules to my knowledge. One breached player agreement led to another.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14043&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1612678047
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 05:00 PM
https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14043&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1612678047
Lol
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 05:03 PM
They left/ended the UN entirely, not just an agreement though. They kept their promise to immediately do so. Everyone involved knew that was agreed upon, yet here we are.
I can't imagine wanting to go back to it after all I've seen and the bias but I'd be willing to have an objective convo with them about it. They have my draft for fixing the culture here, it involves everyone.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 05:13 PM
Nirgon is correct.
It would be like if the USA left the UN. The UN would no longer have authority.
Such a move isn't the end of an agreement as much as the withdrawal from the organization that requires the might of the top dog to exist in the first place.
Arcticflava
02-10-2021, 05:23 PM
They left/ended the UN entirely, not just an agreement though. They kept their promise to immediately do so. Everyone involved knew that was agreed upon, yet here we are.
I can't imagine wanting to go back to it after all I've seen and the bias but I'd be willing to have an objective convo with them about it. They have my draft for fixing the culture here, it involves everyone.
What would possibly qualify you to fix the culture here exactly? You have made a career of doing the opposite.
I can't imagine wanting to go back to it after all I've seen and the bias but I'd be willing to have an objective convo with them about it. They have my draft for fixing the culture here, it involves everyone.
You need to join a guild and work your way up to officer first ;)
TripSin
02-10-2021, 05:33 PM
This is a video game. A video game where you refused to play nice. A video game where some of you have been engaging in ridiculous digital blackface. It sucks for you that you have to face consequences for that now.
hightension
02-10-2021, 05:43 PM
Nirgon is correct.
It would be like if the USA left the UN. The UN would no longer have authority.
Great analogy with the UN. The US has only pretended to want multilateralism via the UN to be able to further the extent of their power base and deny others a seat at the table, no real interest in making the world a better place. And when they take criticism, they don't pay their bills and threaten to leave in a self righteous huff.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 05:46 PM
Who are you talking about?
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 05:48 PM
You need to join a guild and work your way up to officer first ;)
Just as your history of failure as a tactician will follow you everywhere, I still and always will lead these fine men. We are still recruiting.
To you sons of Erud who wish to know the truth and follow in the footsteps of champions, seek me out.
What would possibly qualify you to fix the culture here exactly? You have made a career of doing the opposite.
I would refer you to Father Erud's teachings:
https://i.imgur.com/QG33UJ5.png
specifically, #10 and #11.
Just as your history of failure as a tactician will follow you everywhere, I still and always will lead these fine men. We are still recruiting.
To you sons of Erud who wish to know the truth and follow in the footsteps of champions, seek me out.
Hey I haven't been around here since August but seeing what's happened that I read here and whatnot im not sure if it's a good idea that you should push that particular verbiage anymore.
Local
02-10-2021, 06:30 PM
They left/ended the UN entirely, not just an agreement though. They kept their promise to immediately do so. Everyone involved knew that was agreed upon, yet here we are.
I can't imagine wanting to go back to it after all I've seen and the bias but I'd be willing to have an objective convo with them about it. They have my draft for fixing the culture here, it involves everyone.
They entered an agreement. They left without providing 72 hours notice. This isn't hard.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 06:35 PM
100%.
It also follows that UN is no longer a thing unless reworked into something new.
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 06:41 PM
It was a UN agreement, the UN was sadly proved to be a sham with constant lobbying for rotations behind closed doors. Open raids and the UN were based on that not happening. The truth came to light and the whole agreement which everything was founded upon was nullified.
cannobeers3
02-10-2021, 06:44 PM
lol
Local
02-10-2021, 06:49 PM
It was a UN agreement, the UN was sadly proved to be a sham with constant lobbying for rotations behind closed doors. Open raids and the UN were based on that not happening. The truth came to light and the whole agreement which everything was founded upon was nullified.
If I'm in a bedroom and then leave the house the bedroom was in, I've still left the bedroom. 72 hours notice. This is not hard.
Sarkhan
02-10-2021, 06:52 PM
It was a UN agreement, the UN was sadly proved to be a sham with constant lobbying for rotations behind closed doors. Open raids and the UN were based on that not happening. The truth came to light and the whole agreement which everything was founded upon was nullified.
That sounds a lot like rule lawyering... "We removed UN so therefore UN agreements don't count"
I think the spirit of 72hr notice was just that, you're gonna go against your word, give 72hrs notice.
Here's what raid rules post from Blue.
"Note on Rule Lawyering – I think the spirit of everything we are trying to accomplish here is pretty clear. Anyone that tries to twist the words to support and/or justify nefarious actions will not be rewarded. There will be no “technically this could be that”, or “well it doesn’t exactly say this word for word”. From this point forward we will be actively enforcing the spirit of these rules more so than the exact letter of the law. Don't expect to skirt passed a raid suspension on a loop hole or technicality."
-- https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189856
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 06:55 PM
UN rules dont apply to non UN members buddy. You nullified it the first time you started badgering CSR about or saying you will quit over rotational content. I'd estimate the UN was nullified within a few weeks of it being created.
Kingdom and BDA's issue isn't that ST or DMO is #1, their issue is that someone else is #1. They'd do this to anyone, and did on blue with TMO etc.
What they do boils down to CSR harassment. It is defined in the classic PNP. You don't send excessive tells to CSR or make constant demands. Page 26 I believe of the Kunark guide.
Xersius
02-10-2021, 06:58 PM
DMO isn't even a number any more bro.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 06:59 PM
their issue is that someone else is #1
Pecking order calamities in EQ are quite classic.
Local
02-10-2021, 07:06 PM
UN rules dont apply to non UN members buddy. You nullified it the first time you started badgering CSR about or saying you will quit over rotational content. I'd estimate the UN was nullified within a few weeks of it being created.
Kingdom and BDA's issue isn't that ST or DMO is #1, their issue is that someone else is #1. They'd do this to anyone, and did on blue with TMO etc.
What they do boils down to CSR harassment. It is defined in the classic PNP. You don't send excessive tells to CSR or make constant demands. Page 26 I believe of the Kunark guide.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14043&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1612678047
Point of origin: Galach (not UN guild)
Verbiage: Binding
Required notice: 72 hours
Notice given: 0 hours
Hard: This isn't
Seducio
02-10-2021, 07:10 PM
You are both talking past each other. You both agree with sequence of events.
The disagreement appears to be about legitimacy of UN without Seal Team.
If UN is still active when Seal Team is unbanned then UN guilds will discover competition that may lead to mergers of UN guilds that UN guilds do not want to consider.
UN lasts as long as Seal Team is banned.
cannobeers3
02-10-2021, 07:11 PM
I'm pretty sure Kingdom and others just consider you a racist asshole leading a bunch of childish racist assholes, that clutches the coattails of a guild that has constantly caused headaches for management since October 2019. And of course the individual shenannigans by many since ~2010.
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 07:13 PM
Pecking order calamities in EQ are quite classic.
Yeah I've been here before. I ain't shook.
That's why I'm not like omg whats this Menden guy's problem! I even made a well thought out, and very considerate proposal of the all encompassing problems here that Misters Menden & Galach can think about or not.
Yes, I do know his problem. He's here to maintain law and order and it is one of his many responsibilities to control insane incidents, to make sure people don't leave en masse. If he didn't get his point across before, maybe he has now. Menden doesn't need anyone else giving him a hard time and I certainly won't. He made it pretty clear today the level of mads he's dealing with are quite unprecedented and us continuing to argue with the rotation lobbyists is making things much worse. Message clearly received. The guy does this for free, and his discretionary rulings will be accepted by us and abided by whether we agree or not. If you don't agree with that, try doing the job yourself.
I'm still playing with my brothers and will be tonight. What we have transcends loot or a guild tag. We've listened to their ridicule of "lets see how long these losers can hold tranix" and stiff armed their attempts to kill steal and bully us with 60 casuals who dont weigh 150 pixels soaking wet. I have no plan of leaving, but would not come back if I was banned.
On the other hand... their ilk do this every server. Their little wins like getting RP-lite guilds that upset them disbanded or a few free targets are completely hollow. The forces that drive them to do what they do are in deep places within them, and they carry on surface level denials or passive aggressive exchanges to cope with it.
These loot craving CSR harassers will have this problem on every server they play and staff members paid and unpaid will be forced to weather it. Notice DMO is not threatening to quit, go to TLP or convince everyone to leave with us because we didn't get our way this time. Far from it, this is all common place and I somewhat expected something like this or actually worse given how dismal the track records of the other guilds are on the raiding scene atm. All this kind of nonsense in the social scene is what makes EQ special.
It would be nice to see open raids for the people not involved in all of this again. I hope they know who to blame now, having read the truth about the agreements on lobbying rotational content.
Local
02-10-2021, 07:18 PM
You are both talking past each other. You both agree with sequence of events.
The disagreement appears to be about legitimacy of UN without Seal Team.
If UN is still active when Seal Team is unbanned then UN guilds will discover competition that may lead to mergers of UN guilds that UN guilds do not want to consider.
UN lasts as long as Seal Team is banned.
I'm disagreeing with the assertion that Seal Team broke no server rules. Galach clearly stipulated player agreements are binding and require 72 hours notice for leaving. The UN itself is a player agreement. Player agreements were left without 72 hours notice. It's not up for debate, it's just what happened.
They clearly broken the play Nice policies.
Agreeing to stuff then breaking agreement because you suck at competing fairly is a dick move.
You are both talking past each other. You both agree with sequence of events.
The disagreement appears to be about legitimacy of UN without Seal Team.
If UN is still active when Seal Team is unbanned then UN guilds will discover competition that may lead to mergers of UN guilds that UN guilds do not want to consider.
UN lasts as long as Seal Team is banned.
UN will prevail because it is now hosted and supported by GM.
While UN rules are normally not server rules, if a guild is toxic ans refuse to play along, rules are going to be GM enforced and the offensing guild will be yet again probably banned.
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 07:27 PM
The UN itself is a player agreement.
One which was completely nullified the first time the staff got DMed about rotational content.
They clearly broken the play Nice policies.
Agreeing to stuff then breaking agreement because you suck at competing fairly is a dick move.
Damn! We just agreed.
Local
02-10-2021, 07:30 PM
One which was completely nullified the first time the staff got DMed about rotational content.
The staff may not share your opinion there. In any case, I think it's time I leave you be to live in your alternate reality. We hope you'll join us in the shared, objective one the rest of us are enjoying.
Until then.
mattydef
02-10-2021, 07:31 PM
Once upon a time there was a dragon called "SealiousTeam", and nearby was a green village.
It was a nice dragon, that would let the nearby villagers come and join in their deer hunts. Sharing in the meats. Would even play in races with villagers.
But, at end of day... it was a dragon, and dragons is free.
Dragons don't see the forest as belonging to anyone. The deer in the forest goes to whoever hunts it!! As is the way of dragons. As far as dragons is concerned, the villagers can hunt all the deer they can manage (and they get deer too).... in fact the dragons like the competition! It sharpens dragons senses.....
But the villagers don't see it the same way.... they see the forest as theirs. So they try to pass laws that regulate what deer the dragons can hunts....
They don't want to hunt like dragons do. They want to sit back and let the dragon hunt in the forest, and then say after a few deer, the dragon has to give deer to the village.
That goes against the dragon way!! Deer belong to who can hunt deer!!! Dragons will share deer already, one week every month they share their deer hunts with everyone coming on the hunt with them.
So if village doesn't want to live with the forest and deer belonging to those who hunt it.... then the dragon will get angry, and hunt harder than ever before! The village will starve for trying to take what they don't earn!!!!
I'm no where near finishing this thread, but this gave me a good laugh. It definitely didn't age well, I guess you can say that big bad dragon just got completely owned by those little villagers.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 07:32 PM
Local, it appears Seal Team has already faced a CSR punishment for breaking the rules.
What more did you want?
For the harmony of the server it would make sense for UN guilds to not get too cozy with current arrangements once Seal Team is unbanned.
Lostfaction
02-10-2021, 07:32 PM
Where are Hillary's emails about rotational content?
Seducio
02-10-2021, 07:51 PM
Who cares?
Seal Team and DMO both got smacked for different reasons and they got smacked hard.
Whoever plays on that team that continues on Green will eventually be able to raid again as long as they follow PNP.
PNP is the law of the land. Always has been.
Until and unless CSR actually codifies UN it is temporary.
Jack N
02-10-2021, 08:13 PM
I would like... a pizza.
This is binding.
Local
02-10-2021, 08:15 PM
Local, it appears Seal Team has already faced a CSR punishment for breaking the rules.
What more did you want?
For the harmony of the server it would make sense for UN guilds to not get too cozy with current arrangements once Seal Team is unbanned.
I didn't want anything. It was stated that Seal Team didn't break any rules. I disagreed because they did.
Local
02-10-2021, 08:16 PM
I would like... a pizza.
This is binding.
I would support this as a server rule.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 08:21 PM
I third this server rule with the stipulation of an amendment of no anchovies.
Nirgon
02-10-2021, 08:44 PM
I didn't want anything. It was stated that Seal Team didn't break any rules. I disagreed because they did.
So nullifying the UN by asking for rotated content long before this isn't breaking an agreement to you. How selective.
They didn't break any rule as you had nullified all agreements long before, yet you still disagree anyways lol.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 08:50 PM
Release the evidence, Nirgon.
This smacks of rewriting history to fit a narrative not in line with objective reality.
Bones
02-10-2021, 09:19 PM
Quakes yes. I doubt the GMs want to quake the server for us right now.
Full rotations?
Idk man. EverQuest is either casual or it’s not. I haven’t seen very many examples of in era end game raid mobs being rotated. If your hard core enough to get to level 60 in kunark, your hard core enough to form an alliance with other guilds. Networking is one of the fun parts of the game.
I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.
And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.
Bones
02-10-2021, 09:25 PM
would also like to point out that my above post does not mean I am a proponent of a rotation system. I just think its ridiculous when I see people bashing the idea, saying its not classic and that it doesn't work. They are very wrong. It was classic and it did work on several servers.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 09:40 PM
Great analogy with the UN. The US has only pretended to want multilateralism via the UN to be able to further the extent of their power base and deny others a seat at the table, no real interest in making the world a better place. And when they take criticism, they don't pay their bills and threaten to leave in a self righteous huff.
Hell, the UN allowed to United States and it's partners to invade TWO counties without consequence.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 09:44 PM
I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.
And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.
Which is a shame because I always had fun pushing the limits of some of the content - killing raid targets with as few players possible. Something that gets tangibly more realistic as players get more gear.
Gustoo
02-10-2021, 09:45 PM
The huff is new nonsense that Russia / China asked trump
To do to weaken our place internationally and therefor strengthen theres
Halfling conspiracy that is obviously true
Seducio
02-10-2021, 09:48 PM
Hell, the UN allowed to United States and it's partners to invade TWO counties without consequence.
You clearly do not know how power works in the real world. The USA does not need permission from anyone to defend its interests.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 09:56 PM
I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.
And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.
This is very fair analysis of the situation on p99. Individuals that have migrated from here to TLP servers typically find the play style on the TLP servers that you are looking for in your description.
Bones
02-10-2021, 09:58 PM
Which is a shame because I always had fun pushing the limits of some of the content - killing raid targets with as few players possible. Something that gets tangibly more realistic as players get more gear.
Yup that's exactly what my expectations were coming into this server when it launched and what I was looking forward to. Nobody predicted how popular this server was going to get and then that was the end of that dream.
Bones
02-10-2021, 09:59 PM
This is very fair analysis of the situation on p99. Individuals that have migrated from here to TLP servers typically find the play style on the TLP servers that you are looking for in your description.
I never said I was looking for anything. It was just that, as you explained it, an analysis.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 10:02 PM
Nobody predicted how popular this server was going to get
Perhaps not in 2009. By 2011 and 2012 it was pretty clear this was going to be popular.
Meta on blue was established by 2013 and 2014.
The writing for Green has always been on the wall.
A Knight
02-10-2021, 10:10 PM
I don't know much about the subject but I hear Seal team is a high up competitive guild, or they were at the start.
But taking away the freedom of guilds camping things on the spawn timers might be a bad thing.
Lets not take away anymore from EQ. I know the world doesn't share this opinion but maybe taking away from the world of EQ makes it feel more fair at the time, but then for an unexplainable reason makes the game bad later.
Blasphemy I know, but maybe that's how instances could fix things. But once created I may realize it might take too much from the game.
Or make another server /shrugs.
Plus I'm sure the Devs pull their hair out every time there is a dispute over a claim.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 10:15 PM
Yup that's exactly what my expectations were coming into this server when it launched and what I was looking forward to.
I never said I was looking for anything.
I think I was just accidentally reading your mind then.
TLP servers would make you happier than here if that's what you are after.
Skarne
02-10-2021, 10:21 PM
Why don’t they just designate a new server that will be a rotation server..and the others remain PNP enforced raid competition
Seducio
02-10-2021, 10:22 PM
Plus I'm sure the Devs pull their hair out every time there is a dispute over a claim.
The Devs probably just laugh about it. CSR might have been given a sleepless night or two over it all, but they wouldn't do the CSR job if they didn't like to since its volunteer based.
Bones
02-10-2021, 10:33 PM
I think I was just accidentally reading your mind then.
TLP servers would make you happier than here if that's what you are after.
I was and am after classic EQ. TLP servers are so far from classic eq they are pretty much a different game. P99 is also not perfect classic EQ, although its the best we have, but the main culprit is the part of the player base that has created a shitty raid scene and zerg meta that has existed here for the better part of a decade, and the only people who think otherwise are the people creating said environment and benefitting from it.
P99 could be so much better, unfortunately it requires everybody to be on board and that's just not something I ever see happening. I still enjoy p99 casually and play it in a way that I enjoy without having to participate in the politics of the raid scene. That doesn't mean, as someone who has been around since before blue even went live, that I dont want to see things changed for the better in a way that the more of the server can experience all the content other than just the top zerg guild.
A Knight
02-10-2021, 10:34 PM
I liked teal even though I didn't play on it. Its nice to have another place to start over again.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 10:34 PM
You clearly do not know how power works in the real world. The USA does not need permission from anyone to defend its interests.
Lol "defend it's interests" or the interests of the oil corporations?
Seducio
02-10-2021, 10:35 PM
I was and am after classic EQ. TLP servers are so far from classic eq they are pretty much a different game. P99 is also not perfect classic EQ, although its the best we have, but the main culprit is the part of the player base that has created a shitty raid scene and zerg meta that has existed here for the better part of a decade, and the only people who think otherwise are the people creating said environment and benefitting from it.
P99 could be so much better, unfortunately it requires everybody to be on board and that's just not something I ever see happening. I still enjoy p99 casually and play it in a way that I enjoy without having to participate in the politics of the raid scene. That doesn't mean, as someone who has been around since before blue even went live, that I dont want to see things changed for the better in a way that the more of the server can experience all the content other than just the top zerg guild.
Great response.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 10:35 PM
Yup that's exactly what my expectations were coming into this server when it launched and what I was looking forward to. Nobody predicted how popular this server was going to get and then that was the end of that dream.
It'll happen eventually in Velious. Kunark dragons will be easier to get for sure.
Seducio
02-10-2021, 10:36 PM
Lol "defend it's interests" or the interests of the oil corporations?
This is the Green forum. Stick to the topic. I've seen you can be insightful.
Bones
02-10-2021, 10:38 PM
Lol "defend it's interests" or the interests of the oil corporations?
They are one and the same. Since the dawn of time a countries "interests" has usually been resources, in one form or another. Oil is one of if not the most important resource in the modern world outside of maybe fresh water and food. Oil corporations benefit from it, but they don't do it for them, oil benefits the entire country, it keeps the economy running, etc.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-10-2021, 10:42 PM
I was and am after classic EQ. TLP servers are so far from classic eq they are pretty much a different game. P99 is also not perfect classic EQ, although its the best we have, but the main culprit is the part of the player base that has created a shitty raid scene and zerg meta that has existed here for the better part of a decade, and the only people who think otherwise are the people creating said environment and benefitting from it.
P99 could be so much better, unfortunately it requires everybody to be on board and that's just not something I ever see happening. I still enjoy p99 casually and play it in a way that I enjoy without having to participate in the politics of the raid scene. That doesn't mean, as someone who has been around since before blue even went live, that I dont want to see things changed for the better in a way that the more of the server can experience all the content other than just the top zerg guild.
Yea it's still a great game to play casually too. And with Velious stuff like Skyshrine Armor will attainable regardless of the poopsockers.
Cecel__Soulhealer
02-11-2021, 12:07 AM
I was and am after classic EQ. TLP servers are so far from classic eq they are pretty much a different game. P99 is also not perfect classic EQ, although its the best we have, but the main culprit is the part of the player base that has created a shitty raid scene and zerg meta that has existed here for the better part of a decade, and the only people who think otherwise are the people creating said environment and benefitting from it.
P99 could be so much better, unfortunately it requires everybody to be on board and that's just not something I ever see happening. I still enjoy p99 casually and play it in a way that I enjoy without having to participate in the politics of the raid scene. That doesn't mean, as someone who has been around since before blue even went live, that I dont want to see things changed for the better in a way that the more of the server can experience all the content other than just the top zerg guild.
I think the Zerg meta is a by product of the 16 hour windows for big targets. You don’t exactly need to Zerg these mobs to take them down, but you do need to have enough players to cover the potentially full 16 hour window, for each target. That can be almost two days of beloved poop socking. There is no chance for competition from anything other then the biggest guilds. Players want a chance of loot, they have to go to a guild with a big enough player base to increase their odds. All that does is diminish chances of a smaller guild full of higher skilled players of coming around. Euro Crew, Lineage and then Sense Heading went to Seal Team. Not sure of how many went to those guilds or dispersed elsewhere, but enough to swell them up. Be curious to see how many level 50+ every guild has at the moment to compare numbers.
The first UN General chat had a guild talking about the reduction of the windows but for the most part acted like it was a demand. I think it was Gathering Might or whatever they’re called. A +/- 4 hour window would be more manageable then +/-8 hour window. Then again, wouldn’t be Everquest if you didn’t waste 15 hours or your life for 15 seconds of fighting a mob.
xmaerx
02-11-2021, 05:18 AM
They clearly broken the play Nice policies.
Agreeing to stuff then breaking agreement because you suck at competing fairly is a dick move.
Fact. Intentionally misleading/defraud other players is against the rules. Bailing on an agreement without proper notice, per Galach's post, qualifies as defrauding other players.
But yes, if FTE racing is an endorsed type of competition, then encouraging those FTE races is the only solution here. That means shorter windows at a minimum, maybe even a no-engage period to kill the necessity for login speed, as well as server messages or warnings when they pop / are due soon.
Zerg guilds will always win because more people = faster deployment of necessary numbers, which is often not very many. The rate at which you can quickly DEPLOY a small number of people is hugely higher as you add people to your guild. Easing the burden of fielding elite poopsocking swarms of neckbeards is the only realistic solution.
Lmao, ST people competing real world politicien to a 29 year old elfe sim.
Def explains a lot.
Nirgon is correct.
It would be like if the USA left the UN. The UN would no longer have authority.
Such a move isn't the end of an agreement as much as the withdrawal from the organization that requires the might of the top dog to exist in the first place.
As proven, the top doc are the GM and server owners.
If they déclare something you shut up or leave, you do not throw a temper tantrum and act like a 2 year old crybaby.
The truth is ST got away with a lot of shit stirring since green.
They thought it was the perfect opportunity to score some nobles for free since they clearly suck at it, they were probably gonna rejoint with some more demands as usual.
St do not want fair competition, because as shown with nobles, they wouldn't score much being able to use their zerg.
But they pushed too far, not only breaking UN agreement and server agreement of 72 hrs notice.
But the super dickish move if deleting the UN AND stealin open raid target from the server.
The truth is ST have shown their true color to the whole server, this is the kind of BS non sens other guild leaders had to deal with.
All those baselss justification for being a dick you see from st/dmo member in this thread, imagine that time 20 un the UN and you'll get something somewhat close to the level of toxicity.
Nexii
02-11-2021, 07:21 AM
ST has a valid point though they haven't articulated it well. The point being that other guilds should have to compete for mobs and not have them handed down by the staff.
The issue is that the raid rules heavily favor megazerg guilds under the guise of 'fairness' and due to outsized influence. So in the end you'll always have a #1 guild that takes almost everything. This doesn't result in a very competitive or exciting raid scene. And it tends to breed more toxicity when a guild gets such a monopoly hold.
Breaking the agreements as a way to prove this point was very dumb though.
ST has a valid point though they haven't articulated it well. The point being that other guilds should have to compete for mobs and not have them handed down by the staff.
No one handed anything down, ST just didn't like having their asses handled for a while month at Noble and made an excuse to try and steal what wasn't theirs.
But obviously backfired.
Noble is the perfect exemple of healthy competition
The 16hrs window only allows no lifers to complete which seal team seems to have boatloads off.
This need to be fixed like on blue.
The problem is seal team doesn't want a healthy competition, they want no competition, because as proven by nobles races, they're not as good as they think they are.
Nexii
02-11-2021, 09:11 AM
No one handed anything down, ST just didn't like having their asses handled for a while month at Noble and made an excuse to try and steal what wasn't theirs.
But obviously backfired.
Noble is the perfect exemple of healthy competition
The 16hrs window only allows no lifers to complete which seal team seems to have boatloads off.
This need to be fixed like on blue.
The problem is seal team doesn't want a healthy competition, they want no competition, because as proven by nobles races, they're not as good as they think they are.
I was referring to Trakanon as handed down. Much like the drafts on blue it's kind of a bandaid fix.
Scheduled races, exclusive lockouts, pop roll on spawn, these sorts of things at least make a guild show up and/or compete.
zodium
02-11-2021, 09:16 AM
ST has a valid point though they haven't articulated it well. The point being that other guilds should have to compete for mobs and not have them handed down by the staff.
The issue is that the raid rules heavily favor megazerg guilds under the guise of 'fairness' and due to outsized influence. So in the end you'll always have a #1 guild that takes almost everything. This doesn't result in a very competitive or exciting raid scene. And it tends to breed more toxicity when a guild gets such a monopoly hold.
Breaking the agreements as a way to prove this point was very dumb though.
hmm. yes.
Danth
02-11-2021, 10:21 AM
The point being that other guilds should have to compete for mobs and not have them handed down by the staff.
Why?
cd288
02-11-2021, 10:28 AM
As proven, the top doc are the GM and server owners.
If they déclare something you shut up or leave, you do not throw a temper tantrum and act like a 2 year old crybaby.
The truth is ST got away with a lot of shit stirring since green.
They thought it was the perfect opportunity to score some nobles for free since they clearly suck at it, they were probably gonna rejoint with some more demands as usual.
St do not want fair competition, because as shown with nobles, they wouldn't score much being able to use their zerg.
But they pushed too far, not only breaking UN agreement and server agreement of 72 hrs notice.
But the super dickish move if deleting the UN AND stealin open raid target from the server.
The truth is ST have shown their true color to the whole server, this is the kind of BS non sens other guild leaders had to deal with.
All those baselss justification for being a dick you see from st/dmo member in this thread, imagine that time 20 un the UN and you'll get something somewhat close to the level of toxicity.
Calling someone a cry baby is a bit rich when lots of your posts are lengthy posts essentially criticizing/crying about things.
And for the record I have no affiliation with ST, I’m just making a general observation
cd288
02-11-2021, 10:30 AM
Why?
Because if you’re doing things like handing out mobs on rotation, then you might as well just have instances. If everyone gets their set time to be in X raid zone or kill Y raid mob, then you are essentially creating an instance for them.
Nirgon
02-11-2021, 10:48 AM
All those nerfed clickies and things they cried about as the reason they couldn't win. Then they didn't even try to show up for Trak and demanded freebies, won exactly zero to date
Maybe it's not clickies or the mean RP-lite guild. (Huge resounding DUH)
Scalem
02-11-2021, 10:49 AM
I don’t know why it’s so hard to just create a rule that says “when X raid mob spawns guilds have Y minutes to prepare. After Y minutes happens Z number of racers compete for FTE.” Sure you still have to sock a little but it puts most guilds on an even field to compete for actual FTE instead of who can ever sit here the longest wins competitions that currently exist on green.
YendorLootmonkey
02-11-2021, 10:51 AM
ST has a valid point though they haven't articulated it well. The point being that other guilds should have to compete for mobs and not have them handed down by the staff.
The issue is that the raid rules heavily favor megazerg guilds under the guise of 'fairness' and due to outsized influence. So in the end you'll always have a #1 guild that takes almost everything. This doesn't result in a very competitive or exciting raid scene. And it tends to breed more toxicity when a guild gets such a monopoly hold.
You're right. Creating a mega-zerg guild, poaching members from other guilds with pixel packages, and having a disproportionate amount of people that can tie themselves to a batphone and log on 24/7 is not competition... it's like Amazon shutting local retailers out of business while goading them to compete with them.
Danth
02-11-2021, 11:01 AM
Because if you’re doing things like handing out mobs on rotation, then you might as well just have instances. If everyone gets their set time to be in X raid zone or kill Y raid mob, then you are essentially creating an instance for them.
I do not agree with that assessment; instances create potentially infinite copies of an encounter. GM-sanctioned sharing does not. Even if I did agree: So what?
Anyhow, my single-word response earlier was more a subtle reminder to Nexii that he doesn't make the rules here any more than I do. The admins are free to set policy however they like, as they always have, and they reserve the right to alter it as they see fit. I've spent 11+ years here tolerating various rules I regard as utterly idiotic. The "other side" can do the same if push comes to shove (or they can leave if they don't like it, like they always condescendingly told me). I would argue that making use of the reality of there being two PvE servers and utilizing different rulesets for each might make the most sense but since when did anyone listen to sense around here?
Danth
Phaezed-Reality
02-11-2021, 11:05 AM
You're right. Creating a mega-zerg guild, poaching members from other guilds with pixel packages, and having a disproportionate amount of people that can tie themselves to a batphone and log on 24/7 is not competition... it's like Amazon shutting local retailers out of business while goading them to compete with them.
first, i believe you are refering to kingdom about the poaching. as kingdom has been warned multiple times to stop poaching. as far as i know ST has a no recruitment policy, they do not recruit, people come to them.
second, as far as keeping a roster that can answer the batphone 24/7, welcome to hardcore raiding in classic EQ. fucks sake. get with it.
zodium
02-11-2021, 11:14 AM
first, i believe you are refering to kingdom about the poaching. as kingdom has been warned multiple times to stop poaching. as far as i know ST has a no recruitment policy, they do not recruit, people come to them.
second, as far as keeping a roster that can answer the batphone 24/7, welcome to hardcore raiding in classic EQ. fucks sake. get with it.
the reference is to Aftermath on Blue, but the fact it applies in your mind to Green guilds speaks to Nexii's excellent larger point that it isn't anything about the constitution of any one p99 guild that creates this situation, it's everquest itself and what the staff decides to enforce and not enforce. top eq guilds poach because consolidating the top players in one guild works, for the top players.
Because if you’re doing things like handing out mobs on rotation, then you might as well just have instances. If everyone gets their set time to be in X raid zone or kill Y raid mob, then you are essentially creating an instance for them.
The nature of the competition: Form a huge zerg of the unemployed
This is so painfully stupid that words cannot do proper justice to its stupidity.
You folks are, in essence, claiming that not being entitled welfare takers IRL makes for welfare pixels in-game. It's beyond parody.
Cawin
02-11-2021, 11:27 AM
first, i believe you are refering to kingdom about the poaching. as kingdom has been warned multiple times to stop poaching. as far as i know ST has a no recruitment policy, they do not recruit, people come to them.
More make-believe. ST aggressively recruited many of our top members (and leadership!) with all sorts of promises. Some followed and many of them are still listed as "Trial Members" I also remember the day Phatez came up to Sky during our slot too and spam recruited in open chats for hours to entice members to come over Kunark. We all had a good laugh.
Seducio
02-11-2021, 11:27 AM
crabby old man playing 4000 year old goblin sim, deal with it or don't, I don't care
I like your sig.
first, i believe you are refering to kingdom about the poaching. as kingdom has been warned multiple times to stop poaching. as far as i know ST has a no recruitment policy, they do not recruit, people come to them.
second, as far as keeping a roster that can answer the batphone 24/7, welcome to hardcore raiding in classic EQ. fucks sake. get with it.
Yet i have seen numerous screenshot of phatez or smash sending poaching tels, and then there s that time where he litteraly came to a kingdom raid in sky to advertise pre kunark recruitment.
You're either ignorant or full of it.
Calling someone a cry baby is a bit rich when lots of your posts are lengthy posts essentially criticizing/crying about things.
And for the record I have no affiliation with ST, I’m just making a general observation
This is called a discussion, you re welcome to not take part in it.
Because if you’re doing things like handing out mobs on rotation, then you might as well just have instances. If everyone gets their set time to be in X raid zone or kill Y raid mob, then you are essentially creating an instance for them.
Lolwut?
You're making no sense, you have no idea of what an instance is.
billcrystals
02-11-2021, 01:00 PM
Did Ramal really just try and say that "Seal Team does not recruit"? I know it's an obvious troll because that's literally all this guy does, but lol.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 01:54 PM
I was and am after classic EQ. TLP servers are so far from classic eq they are pretty much a different game. P99 is also not perfect classic EQ, although its the best we have, but the main culprit is the part of the player base that has created a shitty raid scene and zerg meta that has existed here for the better part of a decade, and the only people who think otherwise are the people creating said environment and benefitting from it.
P99 could be so much better, unfortunately it requires everybody to be on board and that's just not something I ever see happening. I still enjoy p99 casually and play it in a way that I enjoy without having to participate in the politics of the raid scene. That doesn't mean, as someone who has been around since before blue even went live, that I dont want to see things changed for the better in a way that the more of the server can experience all the content other than just the top zerg guild.
I agree with some of your points.
But let me back up a minute to explain my points of view a little further.
First of all, from when I started playing EverQuest in 1999, to the first time I logged in p99 around 2009-2010 and joined <Peace Pipe>, up until 2017 I had NEVER been in a "end game raiding guild". I was in the exact same guild figuratively speaking as most of you are today. <Anonymous> <Clue> <Haggard Krew> <Fires of Heaven>. Almost every single one of those guilds burned out of the raid scene. And I think it was due to approach, not because all raids weren't rotated. Like some have mentioned, the driving forces in those guilds, the people who put in the time to get gear, (Because progression in EverQuest is supposed to be hard) saw what they perceived as little rewards for their efforts. And either left for greener pastures, or, such as the case of FoH and HK, quit the server all together...
But there's a reason the greener pastures are greener. I didn't realize until raiding with AM how efficient it could be. When I First joined AM, it wasn't in the 150+ players for AoW AM from 2018-2019. AM and AW had very similar numbers for each encounter. I didn't realize how much time I had wasted (hours and hours) of wiping over and over again to Vindi because my guild couldn't accept that we didn't have enough clerics for the engage, I never felt obligated to keep going when I didn't feel like it anymore, because if I wanted to take a break, somebody else would step up. Raiding with AM was clean and efficient. I'd login, kill the mob, log out.
A big part of the reasons why AM was successful was due to recruiting since the forsaken days, and it's guild leadership. AM was started essentially as a merge of multiple smaller guilds such as the ones I listed above. Say what you want about Detoxx nerd rage from 2015, but AM and to an extension Freedom was systematically ran amazing. So much so, that when he took months/years long breaks, nobody from the outside really noticed. Because Aikons was raid leading. Or Phatez. Or Monrezz. Or whomever. Reading the forums people constantly talked about Detoxx this Detoxx that in reference to AM, and i'd just be sitting here reading it like... dude Detoxx hasn't logged in in a month.
My point is, If FoH, Or HK wanted to be more competitive. They took the wrong approach. Foh/Venerate was a strong alliance for a while. My first Ring War was with them. And I vividly remember my first Statue/AoW raid, It was with FoH/V, and we had the chance to kill the mob because one of our guild members won the race. We almost killed AoW. Got it down to maybe 50. If we had 4 more clerics, 1 more geared warrior, and 2 people ready to bump, we probably would have won that mob. My point being is that smaller guilds lose out when they feel the need to take down end game content with what they got. And maybe a secondary point of, the only time I got to sniff a truly end game mob in one of those guilds, it was due to FTE lockouts.
My second point is that, again, raiding in this game was supposed to be hard. And I also don't believe rotations were as liberal as some of you remember. I can't claim to be 100% authority on this, but I've picked just about every persons brain who has played p99 and claimed to be a heavy raider back in classic. One of those people, who ironically is a super casual p99 player, told me that back in 1999-2000, the guild he was in (Which was the top guild on the server) required you to provide you house phone number. And that when a mob popped, raid leaders would split up the call list and call people's house line to tell them lady vox popped. This same guy told me that he missed the birth of his son because he was raiding. Another person who claimed to be in the top raiding guild on their server during live, told me that the guild literally had DKP bonuses if you could get recruits to quit by being mean to them. That the applicants were so heavily vetted, that you would get a bonus for weeding out the "weak".
All of the examples of classic era content being rotated that i've personally seen was almost all exclusively lower priority mobs. Sure, your guild can take fear golems this week. Next Tuesday is the server wide Talendor! I also distinctly remember my father attending an open server Vox.. and it was in Velious. Trakanon, probably the most important mob in Kunark though? Doubt it was done.
Which leads me to #3, from my understanding, once a month there was a week of Open server raiding on Green? If that's the truth, that 100% fills any rotations were classic talk. I have REAL serious doubts that ANY top raiding guild in classic willingly went a whole week every month without being able to contest mobs as a guild. And, if there was a week out of every month to facilitate open raiding, that is MORE than fair. I personally wouldn't have agreed to it if I was ST leader. However, I would have probably tried other methods of inclusion, such as direct open invites to guilds looking to learn/experience encounters. I'd allow any guild who was serious about raiding an opportunity to learn the ropes. (Which is what you all should be doing now, forming alliances, and practicing engages as if Seal Team was breathing down your neck)
#4 And final point. Yes, having a larger roster helps you win mobs. That especially comes true in Velious. You're in Kunark. Trakanon is engaged with like 7 people. You can undoubtedly kill Trak with 15 people. I can 100% guarantee all of you that if 30-40 of our hard core players had access to appropriately geared and levels toons, we'd be taking our share of Trakanons. From this side of the fence, it seems like you guys aren't even trying. And don't want to try. I bet if you came to the table and say, hey, we're getting our asses beat. We can't compete. We don't have enough mages to camp out at poop mountain.... Would it be possible to coth up one of our mages when Trak is in window so that we have a chance? You'd get somewhere. And I would completely fight for you. There SHOULD be efforts from the top to promote a healthy competition. But to ask for more rotations, when the mob was already given up for free once a month? And, on TOP of that, it sounds like there is close to little competition for it otherwise. Why give you free raid mobs when you refuse to try otherwise? This game was never about easy rewards. My father played this game damn near 7 days a week, and didn't have a max level toon until Luclin. He would get to a hell level, like 54, and it would be too hard so he'd just make an alt and play that with the friends he made along the way.
If the raid scene is too hard for you, make an alt and enjoy the game.
I haven't played in awhile and just came back again. I have to say that Seal Team was always toxic and a problem. But welfare recipients rule non-instance mmo's. Always have and always will. Using the competitive excuse is just asinine. In the game of life, "competitive" raiders on an ancient mmo are losing.
Erati
02-11-2021, 02:17 PM
Twochain
Mobs are contested, people try...just not 24/7.
Do some fact checking first :)
rewinder47
02-11-2021, 02:21 PM
I agree with some of your points.
But let me back up a minute to explain my points of view a little further.
First of all, from when I started playing EverQuest in 1999, to the first time I logged in p99 around 2009-2010 and joined <Peace Pipe>, up until 2017 I had NEVER been in a "end game raiding guild". I was in the exact same guild figuratively speaking as most of you are today. <Anonymous> <Clue> <Haggard Krew> <Fires of Heaven>. Almost every single one of those guilds burned out of the raid scene. And I think it was due to approach, not because all raids weren't rotated. Like some have mentioned, the driving forces in those guilds, the people who put in the time to get gear, (Because progression in EverQuest is supposed to be hard) saw what they perceived as little rewards for their efforts. And either left for greener pastures, or, such as the case of FoH and HK, quit the server all together...
But there's a reason the greener pastures are greener. I didn't realize until raiding with AM how efficient it could be. When I First joined AM, it wasn't in the 150+ players for AoW AM from 2018-2019. AM and AW had very similar numbers for each encounter. I didn't realize how much time I had wasted (hours and hours) of wiping over and over again to Vindi because my guild couldn't accept that we didn't have enough clerics for the engage, I never felt obligated to keep going when I didn't feel like it anymore, because if I wanted to take a break, somebody else would step up. Raiding with AM was clean and efficient. I'd login, kill the mob, log out.
A big part of the reasons why AM was successful was due to recruiting since the forsaken days, and it's guild leadership. AM was started essentially as a merge of multiple smaller guilds such as the ones I listed above. Say what you want about Detoxx nerd rage from 2015, but AM and to an extension Freedom was systematically ran amazing. So much so, that when he took months/years long breaks, nobody from the outside really noticed. Because Aikons was raid leading. Or Phatez. Or Monrezz. Or whomever. Reading the forums people constantly talked about Detoxx this Detoxx that in reference to AM, and i'd just be sitting here reading it like... dude Detoxx hasn't logged in in a month.
My point is, If FoH, Or HK wanted to be more competitive. They took the wrong approach. Foh/Venerate was a strong alliance for a while. My first Ring War was with them. And I vividly remember my first Statue/AoW raid, It was with FoH/V, and we had the chance to kill the mob because one of our guild members won the race. We almost killed AoW. Got it down to maybe 50. If we had 4 more clerics, 1 more geared warrior, and 2 people ready to bump, we probably would have won that mob. My point being is that smaller guilds lose out when they feel the need to take down end game content with what they got. And maybe a secondary point of, the only time I got to sniff a truly end game mob in one of those guilds, it was due to FTE lockouts.
My second point is that, again, raiding in this game was supposed to be hard. And I also don't believe rotations were as liberal as some of you remember. I can't claim to be 100% authority on this, but I've picked just about every persons brain who has played p99 and claimed to be a heavy raider back in classic. One of those people, who ironically is a super casual p99 player, told me that back in 1999-2000, the guild he was in (Which was the top guild on the server) required you to provide you house phone number. And that when a mob popped, raid leaders would split up the call list and call people's house line to tell them lady vox popped. This same guy told me that he missed the birth of his son because he was raiding. Another person who claimed to be in the top raiding guild on their server during live, told me that the guild literally had DKP bonuses if you could get recruits to quit by being mean to them. That the applicants were so heavily vetted, that you would get a bonus for weeding out the "weak".
All of the examples of classic era content being rotated that i've personally seen was almost all exclusively lower priority mobs. Sure, your guild can take fear golems this week. Next Tuesday is the server wide Talendor! I also distinctly remember my father attending an open server Vox.. and it was in Velious. Trakanon, probably the most important mob in Kunark though? Doubt it was done.
Which leads me to #3, from my understanding, once a month there was a week of Open server raiding on Green? If that's the truth, that 100% fills any rotations were classic talk. I have REAL serious doubts that ANY top raiding guild in classic willingly went a whole week every month without being able to contest mobs as a guild. And, if there was a week out of every month to facilitate open raiding, that is MORE than fair. I personally wouldn't have agreed to it if I was ST leader. However, I would have probably tried other methods of inclusion, such as direct open invites to guilds looking to learn/experience encounters. I'd allow any guild who was serious about raiding an opportunity to learn the ropes. (Which is what you all should be doing now, forming alliances, and practicing engages as if Seal Team was breathing down your neck)
#4 And final point. Yes, having a larger roster helps you win mobs. That especially comes true in Velious. You're in Kunark. Trakanon is engaged with like 7 people. You can undoubtedly kill Trak with 15 people. I can 100% guarantee all of you that if 30-40 of our hard core players had access to appropriately geared and levels toons, we'd be taking our share of Trakanons. From this side of the fence, it seems like you guys aren't even trying. And don't want to try. I bet if you came to the table and say, hey, we're getting our asses beat. We can't compete. We don't have enough mages to camp out at poop mountain.... Would it be possible to coth up one of our mages when Trak is in window so that we have a chance? You'd get somewhere. And I would completely fight for you. There SHOULD be efforts from the top to promote a healthy competition. But to ask for more rotations, when the mob was already given up for free once a month? And, on TOP of that, it sounds like there is close to little competition for it otherwise. Why give you free raid mobs when you refuse to try otherwise? This game was never about easy rewards. My father played this game damn near 7 days a week, and didn't have a max level toon until Luclin. He would get to a hell level, like 54, and it would be too hard so he'd just make an alt and play that with the friends he made along the way.
If the raid scene is too hard for you, make an alt and enjoy the game.
So basically if you are in the 1% of the server population that is unemployed, you get to do raid content. If you are part of the 99% of adult with responsibilities, you don't, or you get the trash that ST doesn't want. Sounds like a fun game
We aren't in high school anymore
Twochain
02-11-2021, 02:26 PM
Twochain
Mobs are contested, people try...just not 24/7.
Do some fact checking first :)
I am willingly corrected, since I don't play on Green, I pick up what I can through the forums. I thought I read Nirgon Implying that Trakanon wasn't often contested.
What is making Seal Team win 100% of the Trakanons then?
It's not a 1:1 comparison, but Trak is 100% contested 24/7 on Blue with 2/3rds of the active player base. Yes, I understand the different reasons that it's easier to contest trak on Blue when most players have a geared level 60 toon they can park out for it. But Trakanon, at this point in Kunark, is pretty much Vulak. It's the only way to get in to VP. Why TF haven't guilds 2 3 and 4 teamed up to provide extra coverage during off hours?
Genuine questions btw i'm all ears
Twochain
02-11-2021, 02:39 PM
So basically if you are in the 1% of the server population that is unemployed, you get to do raid content. If you are part of the 99% of adult with responsibilities, you don't, or you get the trash that ST doesn't want. Sounds like a fun game
We aren't in high school anymore
I've been gainfully employed the last 4 years, my raid attendance has averaged to probably 10% over those 4 years. Nobody is stopping you from doing raid content. Your guilds ability to do so is. Overcome this problem by teaming up with other guilds.
Basically, if your guild isn't capable of raid content, then you don't get to do raid content. Ya'll want trak to be rotated so you can get your asses beat in VP and cry how that should be rotated too? Because if you can't kill Trak you sure as fuck won't be able to take PD. Without the GM's handing it to you for free.
There's plenty of opportunity to enjoy the game if your average playtime is an hour and a half between 7-10 on weeknights. Like I mentioned before, in my opinion there is many more important upgrades to be gotten outside of raids in Kunark. The biggest upgrades are dropped off group mobs in sebilis. Hiero Cloak. Fungi. Haste belts. I'd pick a Hiero Cloak over a Cloak of Piety if I had a haste item already. I'd pick a pre nerf fungi staff over any item from kunark. Trak drops BPs.. end game BPs, and Teeth to enter VP. Well guess what? Besides manna robe, and MAYBE Cobalt BP, Fungi tunic is unequivocally better than every single one of them.
OuterChimp
02-11-2021, 02:45 PM
I'm with Twochain...make an alt and have fun!
If you don't have all your character slots filled up, you're doing it wrong!
#Altitis
zodium
02-11-2021, 02:55 PM
I'm with Twochain...make an alt and have fun!
If you don't have all your character slots filled up, you're doing it wrong!
#Altitis
*spits*
ClephNote
02-11-2021, 02:58 PM
Basically, if your guild isn't capable of raid content, then you don't get to do raid content. Ya'll want trak to be rotated so you can get your asses beat in VP and cry how that should be rotated too? Because if you can't kill Trak you sure as fuck won't be able to take PD. Without the GM's handing it to you for free.
This is the thing I don’t understand. Seal Team, TMO, etc., aren’t the problem. Your shitty leadership is. The Fed (which does, or doesn’t exist at any time) vastly outnumbers Seal Team’s “zerg forces”, and has more bodies at every sock, but their absolutely jokes of leadership teams can’t get it together.
Guilds rise and fall in EQ (see: Riot/Freedom) but the continued success of Seal Team is simply a function of you bads getting outplayed consistently.
Voodude
02-11-2021, 03:12 PM
This is the thing I don’t understand. Seal Team, TMO, etc., aren’t the problem. Your shitty leadership is. The Fed (which does, or doesn’t exist at any time) vastly outnumbers Seal Team’s “zerg forces”, and has more bodies at every sock, but their absolutely jokes of leadership teams can’t get it together.
Guilds rise and fall in EQ (see: Riot/Freedom) but the continued success of Seal Team is simply a function of you bads getting outplayed consistently.
This is definitely an issue I've seen during all my experience on both Blue and Green up to this point. There always seems to be a lot of aggression towards top guilds dominating content and the response always seems to be "Why are they able to do this?" instead of "what is preventing us from doing it?". Everything I've seen with these "alliances" or little agreements between two or three guilds is just destined to end in absolutely failure. I don't know if it's pure ego that prevents guilds from biting the bullet and merging, but that pride seems to be more poisonous than one guild dominating everything because other people refuse to not be in charge or have an guild leader and/or officer tag and just follow.
The fact is that there is a completely different mindset within guilds that are able to speed farm, easy clear, etc. end-game raid content in ANY MMORPG. The idea of guild over DKP numbers next to your name is something that people just cannot grasp.
If you're constantly calling people neckbeards or losers because they have multiple 60's and can outsock you at every location, why should they be punished? There's nothing wrong with it. It's not anyone else's fault that you're not competitive, but I guess we live in a time where everyone gets a participation trophy.
hightension
02-11-2021, 03:17 PM
I don't think anyone has disputed that ST have good players and sound organization. But the methods they employ, up to and including having some weirdo nut cupping guild be their forum warriors.. says a lot about the lengths they will go to undermine and antagonize the overall server community
Sabin76
02-11-2021, 03:40 PM
ST doesn't win "uncontested" Traks because they have the best players (I'm fairly certain all of the raiding guilds are perfectly capable of killing Trak if they win the race). ST wins them because they have a guild full of people willing to sit and NOT PLAY THE GAME for hours on end during a 16-hour window every 3 days.
Case in point: Sky nobles. Those are contested every week and ST has lost quite a few of those races, especially recently. Why are they contested when Trak is not? It's not hard to figure out...
ClephNote
02-11-2021, 03:40 PM
The fact is that there is a completely different mindset within guilds that are able to speed farm, easy clear, etc. end-game raid content in ANY MMORPG.
billcrystals
02-11-2021, 03:56 PM
It's amusing to me that people think high level EverQuest raid content involves a lot of "skill." Of course it requires knowledge of the encounter and basic class competence, but you're lying to yourself if you think any of the raid guilds in question wouldn't be able to handle the mobs. Disingenuous (and silly) argument to say that Seal Team are somehow "more skilled" at the game than others.
turbosilk
02-11-2021, 03:57 PM
You have no skill unless you are able to respond to a video game as a priority 24/7. This is the classic experience.
You're lazy and wrong in the head if you can't be on call 24/7 for a 20 year old elf emulator.
zodium
02-11-2021, 04:01 PM
It's amusing to me that people think high level EverQuest raid content involves a lot of "skill." Of course it requires knowledge of the encounter and basic class competence, but you're lying to yourself if you think any of the raid guilds in question wouldn't be able to handle the mobs. Disingenuous (and silly) argument to say that Seal Team are somehow "more skilled" at the game than others.
yeah its insanely funny, everquest is like the easiest game in the world. its basically a 3d chatroom with some game mechanics.
Danth
02-11-2021, 04:06 PM
If this game's so easy why on earth are so many players so incredibly bad at it?
This is the thing I don’t understand. Seal Team, TMO, etc., aren’t the problem. Your shitty leadership is. The Fed (which does, or doesn’t exist at any time) vastly outnumbers Seal Team’s “zerg forces”, and has more bodies at every sock, but their absolutely jokes of leadership teams can’t get it together.
Guilds rise and fall in EQ (see: Riot/Freedom) but the continued success of Seal Team is simply a function of you bads getting outplayed consistently.
The fed doesnt exist anymore.
Normal people with a life are bot interested in smoking 16hrs or waking up at 3 am within 2mn for a batphone sorry, that's a seal team thing.
If you're not happy with gm decision I suggest you build yourself a server.
billcrystals
02-11-2021, 04:09 PM
If this game's so easy why on earth are so many players so incredibly bad at it?
I mean you can find someone who is terrible at anything, humans are a miraculous species full of utter dumbasses. But we're not talking about just anyone, we're talking about the top raid guilds, the server's top players. There is no objective "skill gap" between these people that is significant.
Seducio
02-11-2021, 04:10 PM
If this game's so easy why on earth are so many players so incredibly bad at it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
Basically the 80/20 rule.
20% of any group typically are doing 80% of the work. The 80% of folks who are reaping the benefit without working as smart/hard don't learn much.
Seducio
02-11-2021, 04:11 PM
we're talking about the top raid guilds, the server's top players. There is no objective "skill gap" between these people that is significant.
This is a laughable statement.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 04:12 PM
yeah its insanely funny, everquest is like the easiest game in the world. its basically a 3d chatroom with some game mechanics.
Yes and No
I could teach a 10 year old how to play a rogue at a raid. In fact, my friends very FIRST experience playing EverQuest was playing a rogue on a (HoT) raid.
Some things are definitely skill based. Raid leading is a big piece to that puzzle. Avoiding another long winded post, i'd say the most important thing that differentiates a good p99 player to a bad one is the ability to stay calm under pressure. Also game knowledge like you said.
Outside of raids, Enchanters have one of the highest skill gaps out of any class of MMO's I have played.
Outside of raids, leveling my rogue to 50-60 was one of the most mind numbingly boring experiences of my life.
ST doesn't win "uncontested" Traks because they have the best players (I'm fairly certain all of the raiding guilds are perfectly capable of killing Trak if they win the race). ST wins them because they have a guild full of people willing to sit and NOT PLAY THE GAME for hours on end during a 16-hour window every 3 days.
Case in point: Sky nobles. Those are contested every week and ST has lost quite a few of those races, especially recently. Why are they contested when Trak is not? It's not hard to figure out...
Noble is taboo because of prove ST is no better than anyone if things are fair ( if anything they have shown to be worse).
zodium
02-11-2021, 04:15 PM
If this game's so easy why on earth are so many players so incredibly bad at it?
they aren't
I've been gainfully employed the last 4 years, my raid attendance has averaged to probably 10% over those 4 years. Nobody is stopping you from doing raid content. Your guilds ability to do so is. Overcome this problem by teaming up with other guilds.
Basically, if your guild isn't capable of raid content, then you don't get to do raid content. Ya'll want trak to be rotated so you can get your asses beat in VP and cry how that should be rotated too? Because if you can't kill Trak you sure as fuck won't be able to take PD. Without the GM's handing it to you for free.
There's plenty of opportunity to enjoy the game if your average playtime is an hour and a half between 7-10 on weeknights. Like I mentioned before, in my opinion there is many more important upgrades to be gotten outside of raids in Kunark. The biggest upgrades are dropped off group mobs in sebilis. Hiero Cloak. Fungi. Haste belts. I'd pick a Hiero Cloak over a Cloak of Piety if I had a haste item already. I'd pick a pre nerf fungi staff over any item from kunark. Trak drops BPs.. end game BPs, and Teeth to enter VP. Well guess what? Besides manna robe, and MAYBE Cobalt BP, Fungi tunic is unequivocally better than every single one of them.
Fungi for a tank? Lolwut
Beside a lot of the clickies are game changing.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 04:21 PM
Noble is taboo because of prove ST is no better than anyone if things are fair ( if anything they have shown to be worse).
So then push for a footrace for Trak. Coth races suck anyway.
It blows my mind people complain about racing. You still have to go kill the mob the same way. Everything after the race operates completely like a classic EQ raid.
Danth
02-11-2021, 04:25 PM
How do you have a footrace for Trak'anon without running over and training people who're minding their own business grouping in the lower levels of Sebilis? One of my larger frustrations with the P99 raid scene is that the raiders seem to think they own the place and seldom notice or care who they run over in their pursuit of pixels. Let's not make it worse.
----------------------------
they aren't
I hope you're joking.
Danth
Twochain
02-11-2021, 04:33 PM
Fungi for a tank? Lolwut
Beside a lot of the clickies are game changing.
Wait, is the cleric BP still able to be constantly clicked? If yes, than i'm definitely wrong, as that shit was OP while it lasts.
And yes, fungi for a tank. Kunark era warriors are starving for HP, that's why I said MAYBE Cobalt BP is better for raids. (Don't know for sure if having 20 more ac and 50 max HP is worth having over 100s of hp healed per minute naturally for Kunark content)
Fungi provides 15 HP regen per tic. Meaning, if you're being CH'd once every 4 or more tics, you're better off using fungi.
zodium
02-11-2021, 04:37 PM
Yes and No
I could teach a 10 year old how to play a rogue at a raid. In fact, my friends very FIRST experience playing EverQuest was playing a rogue on a (HoT) raid.
Some things are definitely skill based. Raid leading is a big piece to that puzzle. Avoiding another long winded post, i'd say the most important thing that differentiates a good p99 player to a bad one is the ability to stay calm under pressure. Also game knowledge like you said.
Outside of raids, Enchanters have one of the highest skill gaps out of any class of MMO's I have played.
Outside of raids, leveling my rogue to 50-60 was one of the most mind numbingly boring experiences of my life.
everquest is an easy game at heart, and it only becomes hard because of competition between players using those simple mechanics against each other. that's why competition is something we should preserve. but ST set out from the beginning to leverage the network effect and content bottlenecks. it was something that was openly talked about as a strategy: first locking down the critical mass of high time investment players, then using that to hard lock down content. eminently doable in EQ. to me, the fucking blue duopoly was bad enough with AM and Awa more or less actively colluding to prevent "casual" guilds from having opportunities to practice (all while we were telling them they just "need to try" lmao), and the looming ST monopoly was a big part of why I didn't join ST and said sayonara to Green entirely after DaD stopped being funny, because setting out to do that from day one isn't competition and I had little confidence the staff would take any action.
I still think they wouldn't if Phatez hadn't uh, overplayed his hand a bit. lol
Twochain
02-11-2021, 04:37 PM
How do you have a footrace for Trak'anon without running over and training people who're minding their own business grouping in the lower levels of Sebilis? One of my larger frustrations with the P99 raid scene is that the raiders seem to think they own the place and seldom notice or care who they run over in their pursuit of pixels. Let's not make it worse.
----------------------------
I hope you're joking.
Danth
Roll 5 minutes after spawn. Announce to the zone the event starts in 5 minutes and that if your camp is somewhere between entrance and trak's lair (Which realistically will only disrupt the spore king camp, unless of course a group is clearing down), to get to a safe spot? I don't think asking people to be careful for 5 minutes while the racers race is an outrageous proposal. Or ultra disruptive.
Seducio
02-11-2021, 04:46 PM
if Phatez hadn't uh, overplayed his hand a bit
An interesting alternative sequence of events would have occurred if the 72 hour notice had been given.
UN guilds would all be in merger talks right now rather than in the near future.
Danth
02-11-2021, 04:54 PM
I don't think asking people to be careful for 5 minutes while the racers race is an outrageous proposal.
I do. I consider that an example of the very mindset I have a problem with. "Get out of our way, we have pixels to acquire!" Those silly raids aren't more important than anything else. Why are the people who're just trying to play the game supposed to be "careful" while the pixel-sick raiders run willy nilly all over everything? To heck with that. To that end, Call of the Hero down to lair works better since it keeps the pixel-mongers out of everyone else's hair. Let them fight amongst each other all they like as long as they leave the rest of the game alone. Any alternative rule set should strive to do the same for everyone's benefit rather than for the benefit only of the raid crowd.
Danth
Chortles Ban Appeal
02-11-2021, 04:57 PM
hello everyone
i will be training the entire zone
sorry!
(LOL)
Twochain
02-11-2021, 04:59 PM
everquest is an easy game at heart, and it only becomes hard because of competition between players using those simple mechanics against each other. that's why competition is something we should preserve. but ST set out from the beginning to leverage the network effect and content bottlenecks. it was something that was openly talked about as a strategy: first locking down the critical mass of high time investment players, then using that to hard lock down content. eminently doable in EQ. to me, the fucking blue duopoly was bad enough with AM and Awa more or less actively colluding to prevent "casual" guilds from having opportunities to practice (all while we were telling them they just "need to try" lmao), and the looming ST monopoly was a big part of why I didn't join ST and said sayonara to Green entirely after DaD stopped being funny, because setting out to do that from day one isn't competition and I had little confidence the staff would take any action.
I still think they wouldn't if Phatez hadn't uh, overplayed his hand a bit. lol
I agree. Phatez's goal from launch day was to dominate the raid scene. We're also talking about the worlds second(or third?) level 60 in classic WoW. And a guy who, without trying to suck his dick too much, is one of the best raid leaders i've played with. He's also hyper motivated to win. It's very easy to get behind a guy like that, especially considering basically every raid veteran on the server already knows of/played with the guy.
But frankly i'm surprised there hasn't been anyone to really contest them. There's a LOT of players on Green.
The mighty TMO was dethroned, Rampage woke the sleeper because other guilds were catching up(Which, I believe was a 3 guild alliance? Forsaken/Asgard/Someone else? Someone chime in there). AM dominated the server ruthlessly for two years, only to be eventually beaten out by a <Paradigm Shift> and <Core> team up. Riot literally had a free server for a year, only to be beaten out (Currently at least) by a Freedom/Azure Guard team up.
The raiders are out there. Give them a platform to beat Seal Team and they will come. The more a guild is hated on a server because of how good they are, the more people that become motivated to beat them. That's how it's worked on Blue for years now.
AM/AW was the closest thing i've seen to a healthy balance.
I don't think guild leaders on blue work directly against casuals. Would we like to beat them? Yes. But casuals beat themselves. Kittens and Dawn Believers could merge tomorrow and be a very serious 3rd entity if they'd like. Dawn believers killed Koi solo during our last suspension, and have a LOT of level 60 clerics. Meanwhile, Kittens could field anywhere from 60-100 people for a raid during prime time. It's certainly doable. But they don't feel like parking in ToV for 16 hour windows. /shrug. They could just do HoT clears and zone out and zone back in when a dragon pops. But parking mains in ToV and having a pet tracker isn't really the casual way is it?
zodium
02-11-2021, 05:12 PM
bruh what are you talking about, half those guilds were killed by the staff lol
Nexii
02-11-2021, 05:16 PM
I do. I consider that an example of the very mindset I have a problem with. "Get out of our way, we have pixels to acquire!" Those silly raids aren't more important than anything else. Why are the people who're just trying to play the game supposed to be "careful" while the pixel-sick raiders run willy nilly all over everything? To heck with that. To that end, Call of the Hero down to lair works better since it keeps the pixel-mongers out of everyone else's hair. Let them fight amongst each other all they like as long as they leave the rest of the game alone. Any alternative rule set should strive to do the same for everyone's benefit rather than for the benefit only of the raid crowd.
Danth
I mean exactly that has been going on in KC and Velk's.
Chortles Ban Appeal
02-11-2021, 05:19 PM
tIbMQmPBBlU
Twochain
02-11-2021, 05:34 PM
I mean exactly that has been going on in KC and Velk's.
KC is undoubtedly more disruptive. The only people who are in real danger from a Seb race is one camp. And you can very very easily just sit in a corner at King out and not get trained. Especially with /shouts 5 minutes, 4 minutes, 3 minutes. No excuses there.
This discussion is kind of mad. asking 3-6 players to be careful for 15 total minutes a week isn't "The raid scene assuming everything is theirs" my lord. Everyone at NG would easily be safe. C/E Disco and ABC would have no clue the race was even on. If there was a group clearing down, they would have all the time in the world to get to safety briefly.
IN fact, you could take this a step further, and require the guilds to kill all the frogs on the top floor. At that point, we're talking about training 3 frogs past a safe king camp and them waiting for it to path back. Fuck it, you could require them to kill all the frogs on the top lair and the 3 frogs in jail. It would take 2 minutes. (If there is even anybody at King, which I assume is currently perma camped on Green)
Too much thinking inside of the box going on
Twochain
02-11-2021, 05:40 PM
bruh what are you talking about, half those guilds were killed by the staff lol
From what I heard, TMO was already a shell of it's former self before the froovy gate or the great RMT ban wave happened. Could be wrong though.
Rampage AW AM (And maybe)RIOT were all top dawg post velious guilds that naturally came and went.
Disease
02-11-2021, 05:44 PM
Each guild rolls. Two highest rolls, an offcier from both guilds duel to the death. Winner takes the mobs. This isnt need for speed, why are we racing to a target?
Imago
02-11-2021, 05:47 PM
Each guild rolls. Two highest rolls, an offcier from both guilds duel to the death. Winner takes the mobs. This isnt need for speed, why are we racing to a target?
Guild gladiator events is the best idea I've heard yet.
Think of the hype potential. Definitely a better meta than Need for Speed 99.
Chortles Ban Appeal
02-11-2021, 05:47 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Ong1enY.png
Twochain
02-11-2021, 06:05 PM
The fed doesnt exist anymore.
Normal people with a life are bot interested in smoking 16hrs or waking up at 3 am within 2mn for a batphone sorry, that's a seal team thing.
If you're not happy with gm decision I suggest you build yourself a server.
16 people could take 1 hour shifts on a coth mage.
People all over the world are awake at 3am EST.
I'm a Night Owl, so I've made plenty of 3am raids. The amount of times i've woke up out of dead sleep to kill a raid mob over the last 4 years is probably like twice.
Regardless of what you're saying (And i'm not disagreeing that 16 hour long windows suck) people have raided p99 hardcore exactly as you describe for a decade.
Imagine rolling on Green, a fresh server where leveling is 40 times harder than leveling on Blue, attracting the most hard core players with the chance at legacy items, and being surprised that the raid scene is as hard core as the Blue server's has been for the last 10+ years.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 06:12 PM
Each guild rolls. Two highest rolls, an offcier from both guilds duel to the death. Winner takes the mobs. This isnt need for speed, why are we racing to a target?
I don't hate the idea, and appreciate a new take other than "rotate the mobs because durr mario kart". But this would undoubtedly also fall into Seal Team's favor.
We're not talking about a racing game. We're talking about ways to settle mobs without it being a freebie or a 16 hour poopsock. Again, everything that happens post race would play out exactly as a classic EQ raid would.
Racing has an element of chance to it. It's also very, very fun. I don't ever see raiders who played in the FTE lockout era complain that it wasn't fun back then.
Actually, in fact, the only complaints i've ever heard about it, was that Sirken made the race/lockout rules in order to give casual guilds a chance... and they rarely attended them, so he did away with it.
Rushing from the start of seb all the way down to trak's lair for FTE requires team coordination at best(GROUP DA, Eating trains, etc), and a certain amount of dumb luck at worst. I wouldn't necessarily want to be in pole position running through the mushroom caves unless I was DA'd.
unsunghero
02-11-2021, 06:19 PM
This same guy told me that he missed the birth of his son because he was raiding
wow that is pathetic
Sabin76
02-11-2021, 06:47 PM
So then push for a footrace for Trak.
This is not the problem with Trak. Let me put it this way... the longer the window had been open without a pop, the more likely it was that ST had competition for the mob. The one time I was there to contest Trak it was something ridiculous like only 1 hour left in window. Same with the couple VS races I've been to.
azeth
02-11-2021, 07:31 PM
Fungi for a tank? Lolwut
Beside a lot of the clickies are game changing.
Fungi tunic is the best item in Classic->velious EverQuest. Every second spent not wearing it is ignorant
Twochain
02-11-2021, 07:34 PM
This is not the problem with Trak. Let me put it this way... the longer the window had been open without a pop, the more likely it was that ST had competition for the mob. The one time I was there to contest Trak it was something ridiculous like only 1 hour left in window. Same with the couple VS races I've been to.
Craziness. Sounds like there was more competition for Trak in kunark era of Blue.
Ya'll don't have two monitors so that you can watch netflix and see trak pop in your peripheral vision??
I'm kind of with you though. The only times i've showed up to races with the intention to see it through to the end are usually on shorter windows.
But it doesn't make much sense to me that Blue has 2 guilds with mages on poop mountain for 16 hours, but green doesn't.
Disease
02-11-2021, 07:36 PM
I don't hate the idea, and appreciate a new take other than "rotate the mobs because durr mario kart". But this would undoubtedly also fall into Seal Team's favor.
We're not talking about a racing game. We're talking about ways to settle mobs without it being a freebie or a 16 hour poopsock. Again, everything that happens post race would play out exactly as a classic EQ raid would.
Racing has an element of chance to it. It's also very, very fun. I don't ever see raiders who played in the FTE lockout era complain that it wasn't fun back then.
Actually, in fact, the only complaints i've ever heard about it, was that Sirken made the race/lockout rules in order to give casual guilds a chance... and they rarely attended them, so he did away with it.
Rushing from the start of seb all the way down to trak's lair for FTE requires team coordination at best(GROUP DA, Eating trains, etc), and a certain amount of dumb luck at worst. I wouldn't necessarily want to be in pole position running through the mushroom caves unless I was DA'd.
Racing in a zone where people are exping in is a train wreck. What do you tell people? Get trained or log out while we train mobs through the zone? At that point, just roll for the mob.
Fungi tunic is the best item in Classic->velious EverQuest. Every second spent not wearing it is ignorant
Yeah that 16 regen is totally gonna save your ass while you're tanking, oh wait!
Fungi tunic is rubbish for a tank.
Craziness. Sounds like there was more competition for Trak in kunark era of Blue.
Ya'll don't have two monitors so that you can watch netflix and see trak pop in your peripheral vision??
I'm kind of with you though. The only times i've showed up to races with the intention to see it through to the end are usually on shorter windows.
But it doesn't make much sense to me that Blue has 2 guilds with mages on poop mountain for 16 hours, but green doesn't.
Beyond the point.
Waiting staring at a screen for 16 hours isn't the opposite of fun, the opposite of bein competitive, it requieres no skill, a monkey could do it.
We can just save everyone the bloody headache by finding creative solution, like waiting 20mn to engage + roll to emulate randomness, along with snake type rotated content like on blue, not everything has to be competition, rotation ARE classic, they happened on live too, people weren't as greedy.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 08:02 PM
Beyond the point.
Waiting staring at a screen for 16 hours isn't the opposite of fun, the opposite of bein competitive, it requieres no skill, a monkey could do it.
We can just save everyone the bloody headache by finding creative solution, like waiting 20mn to engage + roll to emulate randomness, along with snake type rotated content like on blue, not everything has to be competition, rotation ARE classic, they happened on live too, people weren't as greedy.
I'd 100% counterargue that players on live were infinitely more greedy than on p99. I mean, when was the last time you saw a scammer in EC? Meanwhile on p99, i'd trust just about anyone with a recognizable guild tag to xfer items for me.
If you're so worried about the exp group at Myconid_spore_king (Because unless i'm grossly underestimating the amount of players camping seb, King should be the only group exposed to a train starting from the zoneline) Like I said, you can easily require the guilds competing to kill the 17 frogs that are in between the zoneline, and the mushrooms. It would take two raid guilds all of 5 minutes to kill these mobs. Leaving PLENTY of time to zone out and back in again and start the race before repops.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 08:16 PM
I'd 100% counterargue that players on live were infinitely more greedy than on p99. I mean, when was the last time you saw a scammer in EC? Meanwhile on p99, i'd trust just about anyone with a recognizable guild tag to xfer items for me.
If you're so worried about the exp group at Myconid_spore_king (Because unless i'm grossly underestimating the amount of players camping seb, King should be the only group exposed to a train starting from the zoneline) Like I said, you can easily require the guilds competing to kill the 17 frogs that are in between the zoneline, and the mushrooms. It would take two raid guilds all of 5 minutes to kill these mobs. Leaving PLENTY of time to zone out and back in again and start the race before repops.
Or ya'll can keep losing 16 hour coth races to Seal Team. IDC, I don't play on Green. Rogean has shot down rotations multiple times. Raiding EverQuest without the possibility that someone might take your mob makes the content stale. Playing in AM when AW was suspended for months on end was some of the most boring raids i've been a part of. In fact, i'd go as far as to say if Rotations were enforced since the beginning, this server would probably have half as many players. People have been raiding for over a decade for a reason. They have fun. The content itself is trivial.
adruidarkly
02-11-2021, 08:20 PM
But it doesn't make much sense to me that Blue has 2 guilds with mages on poop mountain for 16 hours, but green doesn't.
Velious era windows in classic for a year do a number on trickle-over of poop-socking personalities.
Twochain
02-11-2021, 08:24 PM
Beyond the point.
Waiting staring at a screen for 16 hours isn't the opposite of fun, the opposite of bein competitive, it requieres no skill, a monkey could do it.
We can just save everyone the bloody headache by finding creative solution, like waiting 20mn to engage + roll to emulate randomness, along with snake type rotated content like on blue, not everything has to be competition, rotation ARE classic, they happened on live too, people weren't as greedy.
The snake draft is quarterly. (I like it for what it's worth) Meanwhile, (again feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) There was open raids once a month, or 3x as much on Green before everyone picked up their pitchforks and tried to bully the GM's into a decision they have been routinely against since the projects inception.
Also, again, Rotating end game dragons was not classic. VP wasn't cleared on live until JUST before velious released, as pointed out by another member a few pages back.
Also there is like 6 items from VP that don't become obsolete in 5 months with the release of Velious. Ya'll aren't getting the big picture here. How are you going to keep Seal Team out of Sleeper's Tomb, where the REAL big boy legacy items are, before they wake the sleeper? If stomp your feet and cry because you can't win a dragon with 25 hp?
Coridan
02-11-2021, 08:44 PM
I've said it before a dozen times, there's a huge difference between live and P99 raid scenes.
Live had one or two top raid guilds per server and the rest of the server was filthy casuals. P99 is 80% filled with the kind of people who would be in a top raid guild on live. Live had 40-something servers for those people to spread out over. We're all crammed into one space.
Even worse with Green over Blue, is that the top 10% of all those hardcore people all ended up in one single raid guild instead of being spread out. If Seal Team was split between VC, Kingdom and BL and maybe GM too why not, raid competition would be very very different.
cd288
02-11-2021, 08:48 PM
The nature of the competition: Form a huge zerg of the unemployed
This is so painfully stupid that words cannot do proper justice to its stupidity.
You folks are, in essence, claiming that not being entitled welfare takers IRL makes for welfare pixels in-game. It's beyond parody.
Except I don’t raid. I just think it’s a dumb system
Finesteel
02-11-2021, 09:49 PM
I've said it before a dozen times, there's a huge difference between live and P99 raid scenes.
Live had one or two top raid guilds per server and the rest of the server was filthy casuals. P99 is 80% filled with the kind of people who would be in a top raid guild on live. Live had 40-something servers for those people to spread out over. We're all crammed into one space.
Even worse with Green over Blue, is that the top 10% of all those hardcore people all ended up in one single raid guild instead of being spread out. If Seal Team was split between VC, Kingdom and BL and maybe GM too why not, raid competition would be very very different.
I think this is a really good point. I mean ST has been known to raid trak with over 100 people. Trak must go down in 6 seconds. But to give them a little benefit of the doubt, most hard core raiders join their guild because there is no other option. If you want to experience end game raid content you basically have one choice of guild. So all the raiders flock to ST and the casuals and causal raiders go to the other guilds. Not sure why Green molded this way and it’s a little unfortunate. I don’t think forcing rotations by server staff is the correct solution, but I don’t have any suggestions so at least staff is trying Something I guess.
The snake draft is quarterly. (I like it for what it's worth) Meanwhile, (again feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) There was open raids once a month, or 3x as much on Green before everyone picked up their pitchforks and tried to bully the GM's into a decision they have been routinely against since the projects inception.
Also, again, Rotating end game dragons was not classic. VP wasn't cleared on live until JUST before velious released, as pointed out by another member a few pages back.
Also there is like 6 items from VP that don't become obsolete in 5 months with the release of Velious. Ya'll aren't getting the big picture here. How are you going to keep Seal Team out of Sleeper's Tomb, where the REAL big boy legacy items are, before they wake the sleeper? If stomp your feet and cry because you can't win a dragon with 25 hp?
You sure do know a lot about green server for someone that doesn't play on green.
You re obviously in ST like most aftermath, you're not even subtle.
No one bullied any GM.
Point is people are here to have fun, this is not fun and ST is toxic AF hence why they ve got banned from raid and their pet guild disbanded.
And yes some partial rotation is in the pipes (it was already in préparation before kunark), as well as bag limit.
There will be competitiveness ( if you can call it that) AND more relaxing content via rotated content.
Don't like it? Tough! Gonna have to deal with it or suffer more raid ban.
Twochain
02-12-2021, 01:28 AM
You sure do know a lot about green server for someone that doesn't play on green.
You re obviously in ST like most aftermath, you're not even subtle.
No one bullied any GM.
Point is people are here to have fun, this is not fun and ST is toxic AF hence why they ve got banned from raid and their pet guild disbanded.
And yes some partial rotation is in the pipes (it was already in préparation before kunark), as well as bag limit.
There will be competitiveness ( if you can call it that) AND more relaxing content via rotated content.
Don't like it? Tough! Gonna have to deal with it or suffer more raid ban.
I was probably one of the first 10 people guild tagged <Seal Team>. Throughout the first 24 hours on green I was probably within 10-30% exp of a level away from the highest monk. Logged in the next day to kills dervs, realized that i gained like a yellow in two hours at level 6, and never logged in again. (For the most part, I don't think I ever got to level 10) In fact that character is deleted and is now a level 1 iksar monk. That makes my highest level toon on the server a level 6 enchanter.
I have no skin in this game. If I were to join the raid scene on green today, it would be to join whoever is on the other side of ST. A lot of people in the guild are my friends, which is an even bigger reason to beat them. I'd rather lose a game of 1 on 1 to a random than one of my boys. Also, you can check my history of preaching about the raid scene on this server over the last several years and find that my position is largely unchanged.
Also I don't know if you've noticed but i've been arguing for like two days now about non rotational ways to get non Seal Team entities traks. (seriously if ur in a raid guild on green push for an alliance now, you'll largely find that almost everyone who plays this game is likeminded. We're all nerds who enjoy everquest)
Nirgon
02-12-2021, 05:24 AM
Yeah no one harassed the staff, that's why clickies and soulfires that were fine for 10 years+ on blue got nerfed. When that didn't work they probably threatened to quit or go to TLP like they did before. These very same people did exactly that before.
Deep down you know what the problem is, and so do we all. You're degenerates, much more so than you try to project on others. Any kind of serious effort is torture for you, it can be for anyone, but it's a total no go for you. If you subjected yourself to the level of effort put in by others, you'd definitely get half the targets.
This UN thing isn't very optional from what I've seen. It's an effort to force the top guilds into having to deal with you instead of the staff having to and work through your incessant complaining and demands. You wanna be the top guild on p99? You're going to deal with the degenerates, appease them with constant rule changing until some pixels shake loose. None of the idiots I'm talking about will admit it, but for you the casual reader, consider it and realize the truth.
Flexin
02-12-2021, 05:47 AM
It's almost like none of these camp dispute problems exist on a pvp server, Red 2.0 please. There's a reason why TMO and plenty of other long term blue players moved over to Red during the play-nice-policy revamp, because arguing with grown adults over how you spend your free time and sharing "loot" in a 22 year old simulator is tedious.
Coridan
02-12-2021, 07:12 AM
No red 2.0, but Sullon Zek style good/neutral/evil teams PvP would be fun
Snortles ban appeal
02-12-2021, 09:55 AM
Last edited by Nirgon; Today at 04:28 AM..
Cawin
02-12-2021, 10:38 AM
STOP THE STEAL! **whaa-whaa***
cannobeers3
02-12-2021, 01:23 PM
Basically ^^^
BlackBellamy
02-12-2021, 04:44 PM
Can't they just sell tickets to these things? Like you show up at the Fear portal and you talk to the klok and get a wristband with a number on it and then later it's Attention #5656 - 5695 your raid opens in 30 minutes.
That would solve everything. And it would be classic.
mattydef
02-12-2021, 06:08 PM
I don’t know why it’s so hard to just create a rule that says “when X raid mob spawns guilds have Y minutes to prepare. After Y minutes happens Z number of racers compete for FTE.” Sure you still have to sock a little but it puts most guilds on an even field to compete for actual FTE instead of who can ever sit here the longest wins competitions that currently exist on green.
I also don't know why something like this has never been put in place. It literally satisfies everyone, from the hardcore competitors that want to win against other guilds and the more casual that don't have the time to sit and stare at the screen for hours upon hours.
Twochain
02-12-2021, 06:14 PM
I also don't know why something like this has never been put in place. It literally satisfies everyone, from the hardcore competitors that want to win against other guilds and the more casual that don't have the time to sit and stare at the screen for hours upon hours.
I agree. I feel like this is most fair and reasonable system that satisfies everyone.
For the record, my favorite way to raid p99 was the pull era. I just really think fte lockouts is the smart answer here.
And since this is our community, if this solution ends up making things worse than they are now (Which, imo, is impossible for that to happen) .... you can always just change it back after a month..
YendorLootmonkey
02-12-2021, 07:52 PM
This UN thing isn't very optional from what I've seen.
Good.
It's an effort to force the top guilds into having to deal with you instead of the staff having to and work through your incessant complaining and demands.
It's an effort to force the top guild to into having to deal with the fact that this is not their playground, that no one gave them the right to dictate the high barrier of entry to being able to compete, and that there is an entire community of raiders/players that their actions/behavior impacts.
You wanna be the top guild on p99?
No, why the fuck would I want to tie myself to 24/7 batphones as a 40-something year-old grown-ass adult over pixels? But I play here too, and no one designated the top guild minority as "deciders of who is worthy of getting pixels" of the majority. There is absolutely zero reason why they can't work out something like bag limits or FTE lockouts or anything other than "well, that doesn't deny others pixels as effectively." It's all about our tears, to be honest.
You're going to deal with the degenerates, appease them with constant rule changing until some pixels shake loose. None of the idiots I'm talking about will admit it, but for you the casual reader, consider it and realize the truth.
For the casual reader: the real degenerates that force everyone else into having to beat their zerg force and stand by 24/7 batphones --- these try-hards have had their way on Blue for nearly most of 10 years. And they want to dominate all the pixels again on Green. And probably on Yellow in 2023. And Mauve in 2027. And it keeps going on and on and on. When is it enough for them? When do you say "Okay, you know what, this isn't even competition anymore... this is like shooting fish in a barrel." instead of "Holy shit, grats us, we're so awesome. AGAIN. Ready to do it all over again on the next server because we get erect by denying others pixels." Who are the degenerates again? Nirgon is projecting hard because he knows his elitist position is ridiculous.
We're just trying to enjoy EQ, man. Not make it into a full-time job. But it seems a minority group of players who have decided for themselves that these servers are THEIR playground and have also decided they will NEVER EVER let people who raid casually enjoy themselves. In fact, probably over their cold dead bodies.
Why?
getsome
02-12-2021, 08:15 PM
Why?
Because that is the rule sets established by rogean and nilbog. The server admins could change how guilds compete in an instant.
Braknar tried to shake things up and was dismissed.
Heywood
02-12-2021, 09:14 PM
Why?
I was under the impression that p99 was supposed to be "classic"
What's classic about having guilds log into some 3rd party program so they can hold hands and talk about which raids mobs they can kill.
Seems like my boy Nirgon is right. Y'all filthy casuals want a piece of the pie without putting in the work. EQ has always been about putting in a ton of work to get the best pixels. If you didn't know that, or want something different, WoW is that way.
This is why blue/green are ultimately flawed and plain boring. Instead of crying to GMs about not getting trak, y'all should duke it out. It's what Brad would have wanted.
BlackBellamy
02-12-2021, 09:44 PM
EQ has always been about putting in a ton of work to get the best pixels. If you didn't know that, or want something different, WoW is that way.
EQ has always been about a rewarding and rich social experience. The middle-management spreadsheet meta enjoyed by the top autists is merely a thread in the social fabric of the server. As much as they would like to think so, it's only a small portion of what the server life is all about. The server does not revolve around Trak kills or VP keys, and I'm am sure that data can show the vast majority of players never reach the raid stage nor do they want to. For every 20 of them, one goes on to sit there and count his points and think himself more important than the players they now denigrate.
These few think themselves the core of EQ experience because of the intensity of their feelings, but children always think Christmas is about them.
Cawin
02-12-2021, 10:02 PM
EQ has always been about a rewarding and rich social experience.
These few think themselves the core of EQ experience because of the intensity of their feelings, but children always think Christmas is about them.
Mic drop. Can close this thread now.
Holy batman!
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378493
/bow menden
Nexii
02-13-2021, 12:48 AM
Because that is the rule sets established by rogean and nilbog. The server admins could change how guilds compete in an instant.
Braknar tried to shake things up and was dismissed.
Didn't Braknar want 100% rotations?
That aside, I do agree the ruleset could be altered. As it is, one guild ends up taking everything.
Wyclef31
02-13-2021, 01:09 AM
I was under the impression that p99 was supposed to be "classic"
What's classic about having guilds log into some 3rd party program so they can hold hands and talk about which raids mobs they can kill.
Seems like my boy Nirgon is right. Y'all filthy casuals want a piece of the pie without putting in the work. EQ has always been about putting in a ton of work to get the best pixels. If you didn't know that, or want something different, WoW is that way.
This is why blue/green are ultimately flawed and plain boring. Instead of crying to GMs about not getting trak, y'all should duke it out. It's what Brad would have wanted.
There's nothing "classic" about this, it's an emulation of classic. So give up on that idea. None of us had the info and resources we have now, back then.
Funny how people, no matter the context, will pick and choose what strengthens "their" side while ignoring all the relative information. If you wanna play classic you better have 56k, no discord and throw your cell phone away while you're at it. Where does one draw the next imaginary line? This logical fallacy is for the sheep.
Cecel__Soulhealer
02-13-2021, 02:29 AM
There's nothing "classic" about this, it's an emulation of classic. So give up on that idea. None of us had the info and resources we have now, back then.
Funny how people, no matter the context, will pick and choose what strengthens "their" side while ignoring all the relative information. If you wanna play classic you better have 56k, no discord and throw your cell phone away while you're at it. Where does one draw the next imaginary line? This logical fallacy is for the sheep.
I mentioned GINA to a person one time telling them it would help them realize their FD failed because it was in a dirty puller and caused aggro on my cleric. Said it isn’t classic and they play for that. Two weeks later they were yammering about how their should be instances for raid targets or enforced rotations. Every time I hear ‘but muh classic’ they always cherry pick.
Classic on my server was you’d get trained if they didn’t like you or they wanted to steal your camp. It wasn’t constant or often, but it would happen. Or two groups DPS racing trying to steal the mobs. Good times.
wicco
02-13-2021, 03:17 PM
"Degenerate" is one of those words that says a lot about a person--namely that they are a gambler, a physicist, or a racist.
sajbert
02-14-2021, 09:26 AM
Seems like my boy Nirgon is right. Y'all filthy casuals want a piece of the pie without putting in the work. EQ has always been about putting in a ton of work to get the best pixels. If you didn't know that, or want something different, WoW is that way.
Bullshit. Since EQ has no gear-check barriers of entry (bar easy to get resists and cheap utility items) and no PvP your gear is literally just vanity pixels outside of a few solo/small group feats which few ever do anyway.
EQ raiding is staring blankly at a screen spamming tracking/pettracking or duckporting for several hours on end in the hopes of that something will pop. Then everyone logs on and rushes the boss in <20 secs. Items are dropped, the people who have the most unhealthy amount of hours staring at the screen gets the good drops. Rince and repeat.
For all the shit WoW gets it is far more demanding in skill and the top end gear actually requires something more than unemployment status and autism.
If you however like a social game with a big world full of dangers, EQ gives you that.
Vizax_Xaziv
02-14-2021, 10:58 AM
Bullshit. Since EQ has no gear-check barriers of entry (bar easy to get resists and cheap utility items) and no PvP your gear is literally just vanity pixels outside of a few solo/small group feats which few ever do anyway.
EQ raiding is staring blankly at a screen spamming tracking/pettracking or duckporting for several hours on end in the hopes of that something will pop. Then everyone logs on and rushes the boss in <20 secs. Items are dropped, the people who have the most unhealthy amount of hours staring at the screen gets the good drops. Rince and repeat.
For all the shit WoW gets it is far more demanding in skill and the top end gear actually requires something more than unemployment status and autism.
If you however like a social game with a big world full of dangers, EQ gives you that.
I think the problem is more specifically the fact that raids have no player-cap. Back in Vanilla resists were EXTREMELY important because you (or at least, we, as in my guild) had very limited numbers. When we did something like NTOV we'd have MAYBE 50 players (on the high side). However, when you have 100+ people attending a raid you have so much excess healing and DPS that it makes resisting AOEs totally irrelevant. Especially when we have an EXTREMELY unclassic number of the "core" raiding classes (cleric warriors monks and rogues specifically). We have so many shaman and druids that healing AOE/Ramp damage is not a problem at all.
POP almost out an end to this by limiting the number of people who could be flagged, but even then you could still bring 100 people to actually kill the mob.
I say implement a betting system. Each guild in contest gets to "bet" on the number of players with whom they can defeat an encounter. Then attempts proceed in ascending order. Guild with the fewest players gets first attempt - if they fail they're locked out of that specific mob til next spawn.
I'll tell ya it's quite interesting how closely ClassicWOW has come to resemble P99. Groups now level only via AOE dungeon groups - you sit at the dungeon entrance and a level 60 clears the dungeon for your (after you've paid them, of course). The highest end guilds clear all the hard raid content, then you walk in and loot your items (after you've paid them, of course) etc etc
unsunghero
02-14-2021, 12:25 PM
I'll tell ya it's quite interesting how closely ClassicWOW has come to resemble P99. Groups now level only via AOE dungeon groups - you sit at the dungeon entrance and a level 60 clears the dungeon for your (after you've paid them, of course). The highest end guilds clear all the hard raid content, then you walk in and loot your items (after you've paid them, of course) etc etc
Classic WoW has instanced raids that are harder (at least Naxx is supposedly hard, moreso expensive in regards to consumables), but classic WoW currently was ruined by 2 things that also ruin EQ Live TLP servers: 1. RMT and 2. Bots
All raids are now GDKP (gold DKP), meaning step 1 is buy 50,000+ gold from websites. Step 2 is get into one of these raids where a core group of raiders carries a bunch of whales through the raid. Then bid your bought gold on items as they drop. The most expensive item I think went for like 185,000 gold or something like that
So unless you buy gold, you will likely never save enough to be able to get any items, and since there are so many GDKP raids, normal guild runs are dying out. Also, botting is rampant. Bots fly hack and run under the ground. Bots are running on scripts 24/7. It is almost impossible to find certain materials used in high end flasks because the bots have them locked down 24/7. And blizz, just like daybreakgames for EQ, won't ban the bots or deal with the bot problem because bots = money for them
EQ TLP is full of bot armies, all scripted to lock a particular zone down and farm it 24/7, then sell items for Krono (real $$). So these games have their own problems. Hopefully P99 never gets that bad
Chloroform
02-14-2021, 12:59 PM
It also doesnt matter if you remove yourself from the player agreements. If the rest of the server on green decides to agree than seal team will be forced to follow.
sounds like commies
RoguePhantom
02-14-2021, 01:14 PM
Want to join Seal Team.
bomaroast
02-14-2021, 01:17 PM
Sometime during the PoP era there was a post on my server message board from a shadow knight that wanted to stop leveling in the early 50s and just slam AA in Karnor's Castle, at a much slower rate than was expected at the time. He just really loved Karnors. Someone commented, 'why would you kill drolvargs, just to get better at killing drolvargs, just to get better at killing drolvargs? There's no point without some progression.'
That's really been sitting on my mind lately.
xmaerx
02-14-2021, 09:26 PM
Honestly, every single raid guild on Green is proud and lazy. One just has more members than the others.
If any Anti-Seal-Team alliance was put together strictly for 7-day targets, they'd actually win. Like, Seal Team would not beat *everyone else combined* to Trakanon. They just wouldn't. That's my biggest issue with arbitrary GM-Squashing of the Seal Team monopoly: The issue IS resolvable without intervention.
With that said, such measures being necessary is dumb, Seal Team's roster is bloated garbage, and their tantrum is fucking bonkers.
EDIT: And I blame the UN for fostering an environment of "zero-competition" steady growth via rotation. If the UN didn't exist and every guild was getting absolutely fucked by Seal Team, they'd do something about it. Which is why Seal Team orchestrated the formation of the UN to begin with.
Mistle
02-14-2021, 09:27 PM
All raids are now GDKP (gold DKP), meaning step 1 is buy 50,000+ gold from websites. Step 2 is get into one of these raids where a core group of raiders carries a bunch of whales through the raid. Then bid your bought gold on items as they drop. The most expensive item I think went for like 185,000 gold or something like that
So unless you buy gold, you will likely never save enough to be able to get any items, and since there are so many GDKP raids, normal guild runs are dying out.
Wow is this accurate? I had no idea WoW was getting into this kind of shape.
Swish
02-14-2021, 09:57 PM
The average WoW player is an idiot and probably young enough that they're well into microtransactions on mobile and console games.
It is sad though. If I was to run something similar I'd do it to prop up a guild bank and those kinds of values wouldn't be as high.
Tuljin
02-14-2021, 10:50 PM
The average WoW player is an idiot
And now there are tons of WoW players on P99 lol
Bardp1999
02-14-2021, 11:12 PM
P99 isn't exactly a think-tank Mr Swish
AenorVZ
02-15-2021, 12:24 AM
I say implement a betting system. Each guild in contest gets to "bet" on the number of players with whom they can defeat an encounter. Then attempts proceed in ascending order. Guild with the fewest players gets first attempt - if they fail they're locked out of that specific mob til next spawn.
Like, Seal Team would not beat *everyone else combined* to Trakanon. They just wouldn't.
I'll take that bet. How many players do you think you can coth into the lair in the three minutes it takes to down Trak?
Mistle
02-15-2021, 01:42 AM
I say implement a betting system. Each guild in contest gets to "bet" on the number of players with whom they can defeat an encounter. Then attempts proceed in ascending order. Guild with the fewest players gets first attempt - if they fail they're locked out of that specific mob til next spawn.
We could even call it a batchall. The freebirth scum will never win.
unsunghero
02-15-2021, 03:04 AM
Wow is this accurate? I had no idea WoW was getting into this kind of shape.
Yea, I am not exaggerating. Classic's biggest flaw according to the playerbase is that it became completely P2W
There is no more leveling anymore, the newbie zones on all but the biggest servers are empty. There is certainly no one going into low level dungeons as a 5 man. The reason is because mages sell "boosting" services, which is essentially a PL. The way they do it is they take a lowbie into Zul'Gurub (max level raid zonea), and pull about 20-25 elite mobs at a time. Then they hop up and down from this roped part on a bridge, which makes all the mobs path back and forth up and down the bridge but never reaching the mage (if they do they instant kill him). Then the mage slowly AoE's the clump down, which gives the noob char multiple levels. The payment is hundreds of gold per level. There is no point to level traditionally, it's about 500x slower than boosting, and so no one does it
And max level like I said, there is no such thing as a Pick up group raid anymore. They are all now GDKP. And unless you walk into those with at least 10k gold, you aren't going to get any good items. 10k would be what a frugal non-mage (they make more) could have saved in their entire char's lifetime. But because people are willing to spend a few hundred dollars and buy more gold than that from sites, now the economy is ultra-inflated. No one has EVER been banned for buying gold, not even people who brag about it to their friends. So botting to farm and then sell gold is rampant
Blizz does try to ban bots, they do it in waves every 3-4 months. The last wave I heard about hit 70,000 bots. The bans do exactly nothing. The bot armies (most based in china) have back up bot chars boosted to max level with burner credit cards ready to go. And because the ban waves are so infrequent, they are completely and totally ineffective. The bots blatantly fly hack, there's vids of it on youtube. There's no reason not to, there is a skeleton crew of GM's on classic who take weeks to get to any petition. And worst case scenario the hacking bot gets banned and his backup char is all ready to go. At any given time if you go into certain zones you will see nothing but mages, sometimes like 20-25 at once, all mages, with names like "dlwi" and "wjflw". All bots. People take screenshots of it, but nothing is done
BlackBellamy
02-15-2021, 10:51 AM
The way they do it is they take a lowbie into Zul'Gurub (max level raid zonea), and pull about 20-25 elite mobs at a time. Then they hop up and down from this roped part on a bridge, which makes all the mobs path back and forth up and down the bridge but never reaching the mage (if they do they instant kill him).
What a racket! Those wow guys are just shameless. Lol.
Leaving in a pathing exploit 1000s people know about just so they can encourage more RMT to encourage more WoW slavery.
Deliciously evil.
CharlesBarkley
02-15-2021, 10:58 AM
The average WoW player is an idiot and probably young enough that they're well into microtransactions on mobile and console games.
It is sad though. If I was to run something similar I'd do it to prop up a guild bank and those kinds of values wouldn't be as high.
A game that came out over 15 years ago is a strange one to get "these damn kids" grumbly about
Stop projecting
The way you guys described Classic Wow sounds exactly like EQ TLP Servers. Except I would say TLP servers has more RMT built right into the game.
The last part of GDKP that is being left out is that at the end of the raid that gold gets divided up amongst the 40 raiders. So if you are just raiding fully geared already you can still make $$$ by doing raids you don't need to do anymore.
Graahle
02-15-2021, 03:14 PM
Especially coming from someone that's spent 2/3 of that time posting on this forum lel.
xmaerx
02-15-2021, 04:37 PM
I'll take that bet. How many players do you think you can coth into the lair in the three minutes it takes to down Trak?
What are you insinuating? That Seal Team has more raiders and CotH's then the rest of the server combined?
Also, 3 minutes? I've been in Spore King Groups with Seal Team members and watched people *in zone* take 10 minutes to get there. Maybe 3 minutes is what it would take if Seal Team was prepared for competition, but given their performance in Sky.. that's a hard fucking sell, my dude.
OuterChimp
02-15-2021, 05:44 PM
We all float on Teal.....even in Sky.
Fammaden
02-15-2021, 06:01 PM
What are you insinuating? That Seal Team has more raiders and CotH's then the rest of the server combined?
"Raiders" maybe not, but coth mages parked on poop mountain? Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if they have more of those than the rest of the raid guilds combined, and likely more shared cleric too. But I don't know for certain, I'm sure someone from K/BL/Ven has an idea.
Local
02-15-2021, 06:45 PM
"Raiders" maybe not, but coth mages parked on poop mountain? Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if they have more of those than the rest of the raid guilds combined, and likely more shared cleric too. But I don't know for certain, I'm sure someone from K/BL/Ven has an idea.
Nah, they don’t. Everyone’s got the mages now. The differentiators are engage speed and execution. When ST has been contested, they have engaged very quickly. Won’t say specifically how quick for competitive reasons, but it is fast.
AenorVZ
02-16-2021, 12:03 AM
All guilds are limited to two trackers on poop mountain by server rules. Just pointing out that people in this thread who think it comes down to raw numbers obviously aren't poop sockers. Kingdom poopsocked the last two Traks ST downed. Ask them how it went.
Manakim
02-27-2021, 06:05 PM
Alts are a bane imo. For the sake of the classic feelings, everyone should be restricted to a single character per account, and a single account per server.
Xrposiedon
02-27-2021, 10:35 PM
I know its not PVP, but an fun way to solve it, if a zone (other than EC obv) gets more than 50 people in it, or whatever arbitrarily high number that would be two guilds competing ....pvp gets enabled for a certain amount of time like....15 minutes or something to allow people to solve things THE OLD WAY!!! Its just long enough that people couldnt just zone out to unenable pvp and short enough that you couldnt get permatrolled by respawners unless they were battle rezzing. Not sure if its possible....but it would be literal competition for raid mobs only. Just if you HAVE to solve a problem, its solvable. In the old days we had the Loot n Scoot rule ...so it kinda allows for that.
Larken
02-27-2021, 11:52 PM
I know its not PVP, but an fun way to solve it, if a zone (other than EC obv) gets more than 50 people in it, or whatever arbitrarily high number that would be two guilds competing ....pvp gets enabled for a certain amount of time like....15 minutes or something to allow people to solve things THE OLD WAY!!! Its just long enough that people couldnt just zone out to unenable pvp and short enough that you couldnt get permatrolled by respawners unless they were battle rezzing. Not sure if its possible....but it would be literal competition for raid mobs only. Just if you HAVE to solve a problem, its solvable. In the old days we had the Loot n Scoot rule ...so it kinda allows for that.
I like.
bomaroast
02-28-2021, 12:27 AM
Oop.. 2 weeks suspensions is down.. better do an earthquake to get the RMT train moving again
I know its not PVP, but an fun way to solve it, if a zone (other than EC obv) gets more than 50 people in it, or whatever arbitrarily high number that would be two guilds competing ....pvp gets enabled for a certain amount of time like....15 minutes or something to allow people to solve things THE OLD WAY!!! Its just long enough that people couldnt just zone out to unenable pvp and short enough that you couldnt get permatrolled by respawners unless they were battle rezzing. Not sure if its possible....but it would be literal competition for raid mobs only. Just if you HAVE to solve a problem, its solvable. In the old days we had the Loot n Scoot rule ...so it kinda allows for that.
While interesting all that really does is further enforce the rule of the premier guild on the server. they're going to have more, better geared people. literally no one would be able to compete.
Oop.. 2 weeks suspensions is down.. better do an earthquake to get the RMT train moving again
QFT
Xrposiedon
02-28-2021, 11:52 AM
thats not "All" it does. If that was the case there would have been one or two guilds per server on live pvp dominating. For a while that was how it was until the smaller guilds started grouping together, working in tandem, and honestly becoming such a nuissance that some people started just switching guilds because it seemed fun to be part of the angry bee hive.
In PVP....if your strategies are sound, you can win. 2-3 guilds teaming up with an agreement versus 1....just having 1 extra group of people dispelling is so helpful. People who come prepped with blink potions, pumices, annul staffs, etc....typically do very well, those who have the extra money....could get those insta gate pots and get around the Loot n scoot rule by saving themselves at low HP....it just adds a whole new element of fun IMO. It was always the counter-argument of blue servers on LIVE that pvp didnt solve things and caused more issues. However....when I hear the horror stories of old....we didnt have those issues with the ability to solve them ourselves with blades and magic.
Rather than just saying something wont work, just think about how good it COULD be. Lets focus on positive solutions rather than discounting the statement outright just because of a gear discrepancy. Some people would probably love to have that ability to PVP en masse against their seal team guys once they were geared, so you may end up actually have more diversity over time.....jsut trying to help =)
AenorVZ
02-28-2021, 02:08 PM
Staff just instituted a two boss bag limit which ensures loot will become available to guilds who never stood a chance to see it. Morons immediately jump on a thread to accuse staff of being involved in an RMT scheme.
Solist
02-28-2021, 07:48 PM
Pras bag limits. Been saying it forever.
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