Time to fix the classic halfling xp bug

[rahmani]

Now would be a good time to finally correct a long standing bug/mistake. Halflings were given the 5 percent xp bonus that was meant for humans.

Halflings get combined 577 attribute points at char creation
vs
Humans get 575 attribute points

Halflings also get several innate racial abilities, some with very high utility such as:

-50 points in hide and sneak
-extra 10 points in innate resistances
-infravision

Humans on the other hand get:
-NOTHING (extra blindness, requiring a light source at night)

Now it was confirmed by developers years ago that the human xp bonus was mistakenly given to halflings and just never corrected.

They say its never too late to fix a mistake. Why continue to penalize humans?

Halflings get more starting stats, more starting resistances, more starting racial abilities AND the only racial xp bonus in the game.

Lets make this right. Humans deserve their long forgotten and intended racial bonus back.

[Cen]

Get Mayor Gubbin on the line. I want to report a terrorist to the Rivervale sheriff's department.

He's going to kill us all for being a superior race.

He's even accusing us of some kind of extra resistances that we don't actually have either.

Yes. I'll hold.

[Skarne]

haha

[Gustoo]

In this case it’s exactly 22 years late. No one wants to help humans out. They are a top fashion quest choice for late Everquest gamers anyways and their middling stats are pretty high tier for a lot of their class options for end game build outs when the blindness becomes moot anyways. Good thread though

[Fammaden]

Developers also decided that the manastone was too powerful and never should have been in the game. We should delete them all to rectify this mistake.

[Gustoo]

100% agree. We didn't bring zero cast time pumice back into the game.

[rahmani]

Developers also decided that the manastone was too powerful and never should have been in the game. We should delete them all to rectify this mistake.

As far as I recall, the manastone wasn't a bug. I am pretty sure someone made it on purpose :)

[rahmani]

In this case it’s exactly 22 years late. No one wants to help humans out. They are a top fashion quest choice for late Everquest gamers anyways and their middling stats are pretty high tier for a lot of their class options for end game build outs when the blindness becomes moot anyways. Good thread though

I think that strengthens the whole argument though. Yes, humans are good at high level, that's why their ability to gain xp faster is something like a racial ability.

[Keebz]

I think for it to be classic they should should say they fixed it in the patch notes, but not actually fix it.

[Fammaden]

As far as I recall, the manastone wasn't a bug. I am pretty sure someone made it on purpose :)

I never said its a bug, it was a mistake to even create it. Halfling xp isn't a bug either, it works perfectly fine. Was a mistake to put it on the wrong race. If you want that mistake fixed, then I want all manastones and other legacy items deleted. They were mistakes that the devs wouldn't have made if they could start over.

Should we also remove a percent of all current halfling's earned xp equal to their bonus and give it to human players? Probably.

[Keebz]

Halfling xp isn't a bug either, it works perfectly fine. Was a mistake to put it on the wrong race.

As a software dev, I would call this a bug.

Should we also remove a percent of all current halfling's earned xp equal to their bonus and give it to human players? Probably.

Because of the way group exp is distributed, I imagine the proper calculation is impossible.

I'm pro-fixing this bug, even as a Halfling stan. Please devs, separate us true proud feet from the exp-thirsty bandwagoners. They deserve to be human.

[eqravenprince]

If you want to fix things, then retool the exp calculation altogether for all classes and races. Or just keep it classic, warts and all.

[rahmani]

If you want to fix things, then retool the exp calculation altogether for all classes and races. Or just keep it classic, warts and all.

I am not personally against the idea, but I don't think it could be "the spirit of classic" in the same sense.

[Jimjam]

Wipe it clean.

New server with learning impaired halflings and no manastones.

Make it SoW.

[Gustoo]

This thread makes all the red 2.0 threads look like guaranteed to happen bet your life on it facts.

Chances of non classic change to racial EXP is negative 1 billion on this server and TBH who gives a shit we are velious locked you've got 10 years to get to level 60. Humans were not popular on live and no one should ever play them. Lets start a new thread asking for humans to be non playable.

[Videri]

He's even accusing us of some kind of extra resistances that we don't actually have either.

We do get +5pr and +5dr. :)

https://i.imgur.com/JGhElXP.png

[Jimjam]

Fake news perpetrated by the -5 pr/dr races.

[Fammaden]

"Cannot wear robes" absolutely counterbalances all those advantages. If anything halflings are still at a disadvantage due to no robes and should receive some extra racial health and mana regen to make up for it.

[Gustoo]

I mean, cannot wear robes is a silly and arbitrary thing based on whether or not they designed a robe graphic for the race based on the races ability to have an intelligence caster. If anything should be adjusted it would be making the ALL / ALL robe items fully ALL/ALL

But I know that will never happen and I don't care because this is everquest not balanced quest.

[Kirdan]

Halflings get xp faster to make up for being one of the ugliest races. Humans, on the other hand, are the best looking race and pay for that by having no special stat or racial ability.

[Danth]

Halfling having the intended human bonus was known very early on. 989/Verant consciously decided to leave it as-is, in that sense turning the bug into a feature. As it turned out, human characters proved popular enough even without any particular racial advantage.

Danth

[Cen]

I like to pretend my halfling isn't the ugliest little shortie out there but he's packing a huge 3 inch halfling weapon down there.

All the HDG women cannot handle that.

Well maybe the Dwarf ladies.

[Videri]

Fake news perpetrated by the -5 pr/dr races.

rofl :D

[rahmani]

I never said its a bug, it was a mistake to even create it. Halfling xp isn't a bug either, it works perfectly fine. Was a mistake to put it on the wrong race. If you want that mistake fixed, then I want all manastones and other legacy items deleted. They were mistakes that the devs wouldn't have made if they could start over.

Should we also remove a percent of all current halfling's earned xp equal to their bonus and give it to human players? Probably.

What do you think a bug is?

[Keebz]

Halfling having the intended human bonus was known very early on. 989/Verant consciously decided to leave it as-ish

Source? Sounds like conjecture to me.

As it turned out, human characters proved popular enough even without any particular racial advantage.

Probably because they thought they had a 5% EXP bonus. I played a Halfling in classic through SoL and had no idea there was an EXP bonus.

[HalflingSpergand]

Jealousl

[Snortles Chortles]

>best looking race
>human

^^choose one

[Scalem]

While we are at it we should delete the wiki since that’s not classic either.

[rahmani]

Source? Sounds like conjecture to me.



Probably because they thought they had a 5% EXP bonus. I played a Halfling in classic through SoL and had no idea there was an EXP bonus.

Yeah I played a human necromancer for the same reason.

[DMN]

Not sure OP got the memo but p99 is trying to recreate classic, not "fix it".

[Xer0]

Not sure OP got the memo but p99 is trying to recreate classic, not "fix it".

/list would like to have a word with you

[Manakim]

/list would like to have a word with you

:p:p:p:p:p

[magnetaress]

Just delete humans from the game.

[Sabin76]

Just delete humans from the game.

I thought you were trying to HELP Tuna... not drive him from the game.

[loramin]

/list would like to have a word with you

/list's original intent was 100% classic and noble. We don't have paid GMs, so we can't have said paid GMs settle disputes by making people share. /list was meant to simulate such GMs, and ensure that people who wanted the same resource would take turns for it ... just as was specified in the GM manual:

When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1. ...

8.2.3.1
The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise.



The problem is, the staff tried out /list version 1.0, and then ... they gave up. Which made no sense, because it was obvious that /list 1.0 was extremely unclassic: no one stayed awake for days on live to get a guaranteed pixel (the paid GMs, which /list was supposed to simulate, clocked out after an 8 hour shift).

So the real classic thing would be to not let anyone wait on the list for more than 8 hours, and after that simply let it come down to luck (ie. the /random the GM would make players roll). But, sadly ... when it comes to /list, the devs seem to have started with good intentions, but then given up before they finished, and left us with something even less classic than the old autofire fights (which at least had a randomness component to them) as a result :(

[Snortles Chortles]

move to resolved

[Gustoo]

But, sadly ... when it comes to /list, the devs seem to have started with good intentions, but then given up before they finished, and left us with something even less classic than the old autofire fights (which at least had a randomness component to them) as a result :(

That is the story of the entire Red 1999 project and its a bit of a bummer. It would be one thing if there was communication about the lack of resources "sorry, we don't have the capacity to do better for you right now, but we know its a bad system, we're doing our best"

Very many problems like that with red99.

Still good servers.

[cd288]

/list's original intent was 100% classic and noble. We don't have paid GMs, so we can't have said paid GMs settle disputes by making people share. /list was meant to simulate such GMs, and ensure that people who wanted the same resource would take turns for it ... just as was specified in the GM manual:



The problem is, the staff tried out /list version 1.0, and then ... they gave up. Which made no sense, because it was obvious that /list 1.0 was extremely unclassic: no one stayed awake for days on live to get a guaranteed pixel (the paid GMs, which /list was supposed to simulate, clocked out after an 8 hour shift).

So the real classic thing would be to not let anyone wait on the list for more than 8 hours, and after that simply let it come down to luck (ie. the /random the GM would make players roll). But, sadly ... when it comes to /list, the devs seem to have started with good intentions, but then given up before they finished, and left us with something even less classic than the old autofire fights (which at least had a randomness component to them) as a result :(

Plenty of people stayed awake on live for a day or more camping certain things. They just weren’t all concentrated on one server

[Baler]

Humans WERE supposed to get the exp bonus, not halflings. I think it would be fair game to make this change. That said, back in the day. Dev's weren't the nerf happy ego machines they are now.

[Snortles Chortles]

whoa, staff bashing is NOT cool dude

[Baler]

that moment chortles mc snortles finds out I'm younger than he is. :rollseyes:

[coki]

I remember when I first started live back in the day a month before kunark came out, Me and a few of my friends made Humans because of the Advertised exp bonus. I forget if it was on character creation screen or the box manual, but they did have a little paragraph about each race or class. They even labeled classes easy medium and hard, I remember monk being labeled as "hard" class lol.

[bubur]

five pages no sources

cool thread thanks